Payment when provider is out sick

[Unregistered]

I have posted this scenario in another thread, but thought it may be suitable to ask the question on a separate thread.

I have my 16 month old in an in-home, licensed, daycare. There was no contract signed when I began bringing my daughter to this home, however the provider gave me a pamphlet which states her rates and the fact that she charges for the holidays. I am in complete agreement with paying her for holidays and I also pay her on the days I keep my daughter home with me since the rate is a monthly rate.

The questions revolves around her taking time off with no back-up due to illness and not reimbursing the parents so that we can pay for alternate care. The provider took 1.5 weeks off two months ago for surgery, and now told me she will be taking another 1.5 weeks off for additional surgery.

The first time she took the time off, I felt bad for her and did not ask about the money since it seemed insensitive. Now, after reading my pamphlet and seeing that she takes 1 week off each summer for vacation (unpaid), I assumed that she would be using this unpaid week for the second surgery. When I asked her about adjusting the rate, she became very defensive and rude. She replied that she wasn't planning on adjusting our rates and ignored my request as to an explanation. I again asked her about this and her response was "fine, take $50 back" very rudely. When I started to take the $50, she replied "I just hope I can pay my bills this month". This resulted in a verbal argument where I tried to politely explain that I have always been a good customer by paying early each month and working my schedule around her appointments (I have picked-up early, dropped off late, etc. to accomodate her). However, now I have to take time off work and don't feel it is right to pay her during this time. She rudely replied that I could just ask my parents to watch my daughter, to which I responded was not really her place to assume that my parents would be able to watch her....and this was beside the main point. She also made the point that she hardly called surgery a "vacation" and that she would not be taking her unpaid vacation this year.

Anyways, I am curious if this is normal protocol for a provider to take time off and not offer to reimburse. One or two days is one thing, but we are looking at nearly a month of time off. I have never asked her for money back and I have been a very respectful and courteous parent. I truly appreciate any feedback to determine if I am completely out of line, or if I should be looking for a new provider. Much Thanks!

[mac60]

I think the provider is not being reasonable. She should not expect you to pay full rate when she is off sick for a week at a time.

A day or two here and there thru the year, then yes, I think parents should pay the provider if she becomes ill. The provider needs to rewrite her contract and state things more clearly.

I get paid for the major holidays. I take 2 weeks off during the summer unpaid. If a parent takes vacation time off NOT during my weeks off, they must pay to hold the spot.

Here is a copy of my holiday/vacation/sick day information:

PAYMENT FOR CHILDCARE SERVICES

Payment is expected every Friday, or the last day of the week the child is here.
Rates are guaranteed whether or not you bring your child.

I accept either cash or check. However, there will be a $25 fee for each returned check. You will also be responsible for any charges incurred to my account due to your returned check. I may request cash only payments if there are issues with insufficient fund checks.

Payment obligation is based on the hours you agree to use the childcare services not on actual hours of attendance, unless they exceed the hours contracted.

HOLIDAYS AND VACATIONS

 I WILL BE CLOSED THE FOLLOWING HOLIDAYS:

 New Years Day (or whatever day is celebrated if falls on a weekend day)
 Memorial Day
 July 4 th (or whatever day is celebrated if falls on a weekend day)
 Labor Day
 Thanksgiving and Friday after
 December 24, 25, 26. (Christmas week is subject to change depending on how many people need childcare that week).

 Payment is expected whether the child is here or not. Sick days, vacations, and holidays listed above are included. This includes Christmas week and Thanksgiving week. This applies to part time children also.

 For example—if your child is normally here Monday-Wednesday-Friday (3 days per week) and 1 of those days is a holiday, payment is expected for 3 days, should you choose to change your days for the week and bring your child Tuesday-Wednesday-Friday, payment would then be expected for 4 days.

Another example—if your child is normally here 3 days per week and one of those days the child is sick, a parent takes a vacation day, or for some other reason does not come, payment is still expected for 3 days.

 I will take 3 weeks vacation through the year. Normally these are taken during the summer, but I reserve the right to take them as needed. There may be times where I will take the vacation days on a Friday or Monday to make a long weekend. I will give you my schedule by April 15 for summer weeks off. I will not charge for my 3 vacation weeks.

 There may be some years I choose to not take 3 weeks vacation off.

PART TIME CHILDREN

If your child is part time, and the days vary from week to week, please provide a schedule for me that covers at least two weeks at a time.

Should your child be on a schedule that varies week to week, there is a three day per week minimum rate. For example--if your child is normally here 3 days per week and 1 week you only need childcare for 1 day, payment will still be expected for 3 days.







MATERNITY LEAVE and EXTENDED SICK LEAVE (parent or child)

I do not offer an unpaid maternity leave or extended sick leave for families because my business and my income are based on my enrollment at all times. I do offer to keep the spot open for you using the following guidelines:

 If your child is here 5 days per week----I will hold the spot open for up to 12 weeks at $40 per week. You may continue to bring your child during these weeks 2 days a week for this rate. If you would like to continue to bring your child more than 2 days per week during this time, the regular daily rate will apply.

 If your child is here 4 days a week -----I will hold the spot open for up to 12 weeks at $35 per week. You may continue to bring your child during these weeks 2 days a week for this rate. If you would like to continue to bring your child more than 2 days during this time, the regular daily rate will apply.

 If your child is here 3 days a week ----I will hold the spot open for up to 12 weeks for $30 per week. You may bring your child 1 day per week at this rate. If you would like to continue to bring your child more than 1 day per week during this time, the regular daily rate will apply.

 If your child is here 2 days a week ----I will hold the spot open for up to 12 weeks for $25 per week. You may bring your child 1 day per week at this rate. If you would like to continue to bring your child more than 1 day per week during this time, the regular daily rate will apply.

 Under the extended sickness policy, full payment is expected for the first 2 consecutive weeks off.

 Full payment for the first 2 consecutive weeks off of maternity leave is not expected because it is a planned leave of absence. If you start a week and then go on maternity leave during the middle of the week, payment is expected at regular rate for that week, and then your hold the spot rate will start the following week.

 If additional time off is needed, please let me know, I am sure we can work out an agreement.

 The hold the spot rates above are based on 1 child per family, it will increase the more children I am holding the spot for.



CHILD SICKNESS

Please do not bring your child if they are sick, vomiting, have diarrhea, have a fever, or may be contagious to other children. If your child becomes ill during childcare hours, I will call you to pick up your child. I do accept children with mild ailments. Please use your best judgment. If you are in doubt, call me and together we will make a joint decision.

While I do not expect a parent to miss work due to colds and mild ailments, I do ask that you send medications to help alleviate the symptoms of colds, runny noses, coughing and sneezing. The constant runny nose, sneezing and coughing is how germs are spread.

******************************************************

Honestly, you sound like a parent I would love to have as part of my daycare family.

For many of us providers, we are in a thankless job. We get no benefits, no sick pay, no paid days off, no vacation pay, nothing. And very rarely get a thank you from anyone. I am thinking you are probably the exception to this statement. So, when we become ill for a day or two, or if a family member dies, it is very much appreciated when the daycare parent pays us 2 or 3 days bereavement pay, just like they themselves would get from their employer if it happened to them, or a day of sick pay.

Now, I do know that many providers are writing in their contracts that they will get so many days per year paid vacation, personal days, sick days, etc. I know many are doing it because if we don't give ourselves any little "benefits" we will never get them. I have seriously considered putting in 5 paid days, to use as sick/personal days per year in my contract. When my step dad of 21 years died last Labor Day, out of 7 families, 2 paid me for the 2days I took off, the rest had the nerve to ask me "What do we owe you for the 3 days", I am sorry, but to me that just shows how much parents do not appreciate us. Honesly, as a parent I would be totally embarassed to ask a provider that. I would of just paid the full rate considering the providers step dad died. Parents expect their employers to pay days off when there is a death.

As a provider I just wish parents respected us more.

[Unregistered]

Her 1st mistake is no contract!! Let me ask you this.......How many sick days do you have? do you take a paid vacation? Also why would you not have your own back up when you know your provider does not have an assistant? Providers are people too, we get sick and yes are expected to be paid for it! I've been in this business for over 15 years and it get under my skin when parents don't want to pay for vacation or holidays. Listen us "providers" provide you parents with a service, you either like it or leave........you can be replaced.

[Unregistered]

Perhaps, because I was asking a specific question, I left out the part where I mention how much I do appreciate having steady, safe care for my daughter. The provider and I have not seen eye to eye on all issues pertaining to my daughter, however I believe this is to be expected in any case.

I respect my provider and feel that I reflect that to her by always, always, always paying her on time and never requesting more from her than I would expect from others I work with. I never take my child to daycare if she is sick, even if it is a cough or runny nose because it puts her and the other children at risk of catching it. In addition, I make myself available to pick up early and drop off late as needed to accommodate her life (again, which is to be expected since we all have appointments).

I also want to mention that my husband is self-employed, so I am certainly aware of how hard it can be when time is taken off for illness, appointments, etc. however we understand that this also means no income for that time. Again, my question is related to additional time off above and beyond holidays, previously taken time off for medical reasons, and days when I keep my daughter at home with me which I am happy to pay for. I guess the posting that states that as parents we can "like it or leave it" bothers me because I like to think that I have a working relationship with my provider and that my child means a little more than just a paycheck, however I know that we all have to pay our bills. Please forgive if I seemed insensitive...

[mac60]

You said that very well. I wish some of my parents were that considerate.

I would recommend you find a backup to help out while she is out, but I do not think you should have to pay her for her time off being laid up.

[krzytru]

I think it all depends on how much you love your provider. If you just love love love her and her care of your child, then you will probably need to pay her and bite your tongue. Because if you argue with her or just not pay her I would be afraid for your child continuing in her care. Seeing as she seems alittle off I would fear her frustration with you being taken out on your child.

I do not have a back up for days when I am closed, but my contract only gives me 2 sick/personal days a month. Which I do not use every month. After the 2 days I prorate all other time I need to take off.

If I was in your shoes, I would start looking for another provider. If she has given you a hand book on her rules but you did not sign a contract your do not have to follow those rules. If you had been given the book sooner you and your provider would not be in this boat. You probably would have bailed sooner.

I would have.

[pingaa3]

I do not believe in charging if I can not provide service (i.e. sick or gone). I wouldn't pay for a day that my provider was unable to provider service, unless I had already signed a contract stating that I would. I would never sign such a contract. Holiday I can understand, but sick days with no notice?!?>!?!?!?!? Also, the guilt trip was unnessary. We all have bills to pay. Why else would we work if we didn't.

I once cared for a child while their original provider was out due to a broken ankle. The parent was not charged while the provider was out of commission.

One of the reasons good daycare is so hard to find is that we get burnt out with no sick days and few if any holidays/vacation. Providers are sole proprietors and one drawback is no paid sick time or disability.

Please remember that communication is key. Also, unfortunately, if you do decide to rock the boat your provider just might let you go. How happy are you there? Is it worth it? Doesn't sound like someplace I'd keep my child.

pingaa3

[mac60]

I do not think it is unreasonable for a provider to have in the handbook some paid sick days/personal days, and a paid vacation. Parents expect that from their employers, why shouldn't providers be given the same. Although I do believe that it depends on what is the normal practice in your area. Here, we do not get sick days, paid holidays. I think we are entitled to it, but it is not the norm for here. I think if you have a good provider and she becomes ill or is off a day here or there for sickness, I think it is a good gesture that the parents pay their provider for these days.

But, back to the original question, I don't think it is correct for the provider to think you should have to pay when she is off for an extended period of time. A day or two here or there is one thing, a week or more is asking quite a bit.

[lilbiddapopcorn]

:o I think we providers may be a little sensitive to questions like these and some have jumped to the defense too quickly here. I think it was great that you paid her the full rate the first week she was off, however, I do agree that it's getting a little old by now. I've been a parent paying for daycare as well before I became a provider and I can't imagine paying THAT much time off at a full rate. As someone said before, there's a difference between a few days and a few weeks. Not only that, but the rude way she spoke to you was not necessary and I think it shows that she's not willing to be as flexible with you as you are with her. You can only accommodate her so much. I'd look for a new provider if I were you.