PDA

View Full Version : Breastfeeding Moms and Daycare


PeanutsGalore
06-29-2011, 11:43 AM
We're discussing an issue with a breastfeeding mom coming to daycare each day to feed her child and the disruption it's causing in another thread.

I allowed my first client to do this, and I wouldn't do it again. It was too disruptive with my setup, and the mom didn't care that it was disruptive, on the contrary, thought it was funny that she woke up other babies.

I wonder what your policies are in regards to breastfeeding moms coming by just to feed their baby? Do you allow it or not? If you have allowed it in the past or do allow it now, do you run into issues and how do you resolve them?

Do you think the breastfeeding relationship between mom and child is important enough to continue during daycare hours even if it's disruptive to the other children in group care settings? How far should a provider go to support breastfeeding?

jojosmommy
06-29-2011, 11:45 AM
I would not allow a mom into my home everyday to BF. I chose to stay home with my child so I could BF and if you choose to work there is always the option of pumping. I know it would disrupt my day too much to accomodate that type of client. Some of the centers here allow it and if your that interested in BF during the day then you can pay the center price for care and do so. Someone mentioned it in the other post, separation anxiety 1 time per day is enough. Popping in doesn't make sense to little ones, they want you to take them home when they see you.

Sunshine44
06-29-2011, 11:48 AM
I think the breastfeeding relationship is an important one and I would let a mom come to breastfeed their child, that being said, I probably wouldn't be happy because of the disruption it would cause like you are saying. Maybe ask her to come at a different time? I think I'd suck it up though for the time being because I do think breastfeeding is important. That being said, if you don't want her to come, then be firm...honestly if they are sending their child to daycare they may have to give up a few things. It depends on the provider.

sharlan
06-29-2011, 11:53 AM
I have had mom's sit and breastfeed at the end of the day, but not during lunch time. I think that would be too disruptive while trying to feed the others and get them down for a nap.

I am sure the other parents wouldn't be appreciative of their babies being woke up during nap time.

JenNJ
06-29-2011, 11:53 AM
I would be ok with a mom coming to bf her child at a time of day I choose. During the children's lunchtime. And she would need to do it in a public area of my home since I do not allow daycare children/parents into my bedrooms. there would be no playing, or hanging out afterwards. Just feed and leave. And it would all depend entirely on her behavior, the child's behavior,and the other children's reaction on whether or not I chose to continue to offer this.

Blackcat31
06-29-2011, 11:55 AM
I have never had a mom ask to come during the day to BF. If I did, I would not allow it because of the same reasons others said. It is too disruptive and hard to integrate into a "group" day.

If a mom was really pressing it I would possibly suggest that she come pick her child up and feed else where and return child while in the early stages of infancy (under 4 months or so). Once the infant begins having separation issues and/or eating cereal or some solids, I would suggest the picking up/dropping off to feed be stopped.

I can't say for sure though because like I said, I have never had a mom ask.

cheerfuldom
06-29-2011, 12:36 PM
I don't allow moms to come BF, period. I am supportive of them providing breast milk. If they are needing the support of daily visits, this is not the daycare for them. I have worked with many BFing moms and there has never been a problem with providing pumped milk and then mom and baby bonding in the evenings and nights. I am not here to carry the sole burden of making sure a mom continues BFing. If she wants to BF bad enough, she will work it out on her own and pump at work. Its part of the deal when you return to work. My main focus is the kids in a group setting and coming every day sets one family up for individual care, not something I provide.

KEG123
06-29-2011, 12:52 PM
I would be okay with it, as long as it was at a time that was convenient for ME. As in, when the other kids are eating lunch. No if's and's or buts. I breastfed my son for 2 years, and had I of put my son in daycare, I would have looked for one that would let me do so.

Cat Herder
06-29-2011, 12:55 PM
With my failure to thrive or clinically underweight babies I REQUIRE the Mom to come and breast feed them until we could get them aggressively taking Breast milk from a bottle OR she must extend her maternity leave until we reached that milestone. (single moms breast feed, too)

Either way was difficult and a financial burden on Mom since young mothers are the most likely to be fired since they cost more money to employ. Simple facts, fair or unfair. (I did not make this rule, it just is :o) My clients all have very high medical bills, already.

The Mom's never came into the playroom, though. I pulled down the shades, poured them a glass of milk or juice, handed them the remote and let them have the recliner in my family room. It was not uncommon for me to have out fresh fruit and crackers as well. A couple times I did have to wake mom up. :lol::lol:

Many times I have had to help teach Mom how to get them to latch on better or how to thicken up their milk with a rich diet so they don't have to feed as often while baby get's more nutrition at each feeding and less water.

The Standard policy here is that I do not allow Moms to breast feed in my daycare. All infants are to be fully transitioned to taking a bottle. This applies to the standard infant and is open to my decision to make an exception at my own will. All my decisions are guided by the best interest of the child, not adults (mine or moms) will.

All of my infants have been transitioned to daycare by 8 weeks at the absolute HIGH end of the spectrum (this includes one with prematurity and complications from open heart surgery).

I will never accept that someones infant needs this special treatment because it is the only way they can bond with their mother. I have babies here with REAL NEEDS, not wants, to attend to.

It is unfair of other Mothers to make my DCM'S feel less of a Mother because they don't have that luxury. Cut and dry.

I don't buy into the "I am a better Mother than you because I put my kids needs above the rest of the group" stuff and I don't let my Mothers make the others feel that way, either.

If they want that environment, they can go to someone like that. Here my DCM'S consider the other kids needs in their personal requests, if they can't see past their own nose to empathise, I don't enroll them.

I bend over backwards when valid, but I say no when we are approaching silly and selfish. I care specifically for kids who need the level of care I offer. My clients have faced real crisis, many will not be out of the woods for years to come, they don't make up more as they go. IYKWIM?

It is all about perspective. IMHO.

nannyde
06-29-2011, 01:16 PM
No

I just do one arrival, one departure, per parent, per day.

If the parent came to breast feed they would have two arrivals... two departures per day.

I also don't have parents parenting on site. It's too risky safety wise and it's a land mine of potential conflict between provider and parent. The only thing my parents DO with their children onsite is walk them from the car to the house and then from the house to the car. If I could figure out a way to take that over.. I would. Because I have kids in the house... I can't walk out of the house to manage that. If I could... I would. That activity is BY FAR the riskiest thing that happens on my property every day.

I have had many breast fed babies and as long as they are able to fully drink out of a bottle they do really well with expressed milk. I don't accept bm babies until I SEE them drinking a FULL serving of breast milk.

As far as bonding or promoting the bf'ing relationship.... I see it as any other form of parental-child interest. If the parent wants to play sports with the child during the day... I wouldn't allow it. If they wanted to come in and do an educational activity with them... I wouldn't allow it. If they wanted to just spend time together to talk... I wouldn't allow it.

Breastfeeding for an infant that can fully take a bottle isn't any more important than any other "special" activity a parent would want to do during day care hours. It's all one and the same to me.

I wouldn't allow breast feeding here at the end of the day. I need the kids OUT of the house at their scheduled time. I wouldn't want to host that. If the parent wants the child to be fed immediately... they are welcome to park on the street or go over to the park around the corner and have at it. A breast feeding baby is going to be fine with whatever location the parent takes them to and gets them used to.

It's not personal though. I wouldn't allow a parent to do any type of parenting activity at my house after day care. Breast feeding isn't any different than wanting to hang out and play with their kid in your playroom or spend time chatting with the provider while they knock away at their time with the kid on their clock. It's a WANT... something that is very attractive to many parents. It's not an immediate NEED for survival.

If you do child care for any length of time you are going to run into parents WANTS. You just have to decide what you will or won't offer to fulfill their wants. Breast feeding onsite is identical to all the other wants for an infant that can easily take a baby bottle and eat like the rest of the babies before them.

If you want a ton of business... offer a low rate and allow parents to come in and hang out for whatever reason they want. The more you allow a parent to do the happier they are going to be. Offering onsite bf'ing would be a BIG draw if you can handle it. Having the mindset that it's easy peezy... Moms will do whatever it takes to make it the least amount of problem to you... it's in the best interest of the baby to have that time with the Mom... that any bad experience you have had with it was just bad luck... that it's necessary to allow bf'ing before or after care for the baby... etc... will land you a lot of HAPPY customers. If YOU can be happy and offer it then go for it.

It's a VERY common belief that this is a no brainer and it's so easy to do. You will always hear that and it will often be so drastically different than your actual experience managing it. You will hear some providers saying it's no big deal and parents believing that if they are paying you they should always be able to do as they please regardless of whether or not it works for you or the kids. You will then hear providers saying NEVER... I know better... can't manage it. Those providers who say NO to it will be bashed for not understanding breast feeding and not allowing an open door policy.

Happens everytime this comes up.

You just have to find your own place in it. My place is "one arrival one departure" and "no parenting onsite".

PeanutsGalore
06-29-2011, 01:18 PM
With my failure to thrive or clinically underweight babies I REQUIRE the Mom to come and breast feed them until we could get them aggressively taking Breast milk from a bottle OR she must extend her maternity leave until we reached that milestone. (single moms breast feed, too)

Either way was difficult and a financial burden on Mom since young mothers are the most likely to be fired since they cost more money to employ. Simple facts, fair or unfair. (I did not make this rule, it just is :o) My clients all have very high medical bills, already.

The Mom's never came into the playroom, though. I pulled down the shades, poured them a glass of milk or juice, handed them the remote and let them have the recliner in my family room. It was not uncommon for me to have out fresh fruit and crackers as well. A couple times I did have to wake mom up. :lol::lol:

Many times I have had to help teach Mom how to get them to latch on better or how to thicken up their milk with a rich diet so they don't have to feed as often while baby get's more nutrition at each feeding and less water.

The Standard policy here is that I do not allow Moms to breast feed in my daycare. All infants are to be fully transitioned to taking a bottle. This applies to the standard infant and is open to my decision to make an exception at my own will. All my decisions are guided by the best interest of the child, not adults (mine or moms) will.

All of my infants have been transitioned to daycare by 8 weeks at the absolute HIGH end of the spectrum (this includes one with prematurity and complications from open heart surgery).

I will never accept that someones infant needs this special treatment because it is the only way they can bond with their mother. I have babies here with REAL NEEDS, not wants, to attend to.

It is unfair of other Mothers to make my DCM'S feel less of a Mother because they don't have that luxury. Cut and dry.

I don't buy into the "I am a better Mother than you because I put my kids needs above the rest of the group" stuff and I don't let my Mothers make the others feel that way, either.

If they want that environment, they can go to someone like that. Here my DCM'S consider the other kids needs in their personal requests, if they can't see past their own nose to empathise, I don't enroll them.

I bend over backwards when valid, but I say no when we are approaching silly and selfish. I care specifically for kids who need the level of care I offer. My clients have faced real crisis, many will not be out of the woods for years to come, they don't make up more as they go. IYKWIM?

It is all about perspective. IMHO.

Sooooo well said, Catherder. Perspective is lacking in most adults I meet, and that includes me, sometimes! But at least I don't expect anyone to put the needs of my child above the needs of other children. I have a hard time empathizing with that one, and how any mother can think it's irrelevant (at best) or funny (at worst) to interrupt naptime is beyond me...

I also don't buy into the idea that the only time a baby can bond with it's mother is during an afternoon breastfeeding interlude. If that were the case, then we'd have a whole bunch of formula-fed children running around with serious attachment disorders.

I really, really wish I could offer more services than my setup will allow me to. Once I have a larger home and can segment off parts of it like you have, Catherder, then I will offer the services again--with strict guidelines. But even then, I still won't work with clients who want special treatment for their own child to the detriment of the other kids in the group.

Michelle
06-29-2011, 01:28 PM
With my failure to thrive or clinically underweight babies I REQUIRE the Mom to come and breast feed them until we could get them aggressively taking Breast milk from a bottle OR she must extend her maternity leave until we reached that milestone. (single moms breast feed, too)

Either way was difficult and a financial burden on Mom since young mothers are the most likely to be fired since they cost more money to employ. Simple facts, fair or unfair. (I did not make this rule, it just is :o) My clients all have very high medical bills, already.

The Mom's never came into the playroom, though. I pulled down the shades, poured them a glass of milk or juice, handed them the remote and let them have the recliner in my family room. It was not uncommon for me to have out fresh fruit and crackers as well. A couple times I did have to wake mom up. :lol::lol:

Many times I have had to help teach Mom how to get them to latch on better or how to thicken up their milk with a rich diet so they don't have to feed as often while baby get's more nutrition at each feeding and less water.

The Standard policy here is that I do not allow Moms to breast feed in my daycare. All infants are to be fully transitioned to taking a bottle. This applies to the standard infant and is open to my decision to make an exception at my own will. All my decisions are guided by the best interest of the child, not adults (mine or moms) will.

All of my infants have been transitioned to daycare by 8 weeks at the absolute HIGH end of the spectrum (this includes one with prematurity and complications from open heart surgery).

I will never accept that someones infant needs this special treatment because it is the only way they can bond with their mother. I have babies here with REAL NEEDS, not wants, to attend to.

It is unfair of other Mothers to make my DCM'S feel less of a Mother because they don't have that luxury. Cut and dry.

I don't buy into the "I am a better Mother than you because I put my kids needs above the rest of the group" stuff and I don't let my Mothers make the others feel that way, either.

If they want that environment, they can go to someone like that. Here my DCM'S consider the other kids needs in their personal requests, if they can't see past their own nose to empathise, I don't enroll them.

I bend over backwards when valid, but I say no when we are approaching silly and selfish. I care specifically for kids who need the level of care I offer. My clients have faced real crisis, many will not be out of the woods for years to come, they don't make up more as they go. IYKWIM?

It is all about perspective. IMHO.

I am with you all the way!
I have always let moms nurse their babies here.
In my home it's so normal and natural that I let them do it in the living room around the kids ( they are covered). The kids ask them" what are you doing?" and the moms say "feeding my baby" and they say, "Oh" and run along. I did have a lot of explaining to do when I was nursing my daughter.
We were talking about good touching and bad touching that day and one of the new kids accused me of "bad touching " my baby :lol::lol::lol:
So, I had a lot of lessons to teach that day and I let the parents know, just in case. It was sooo funny. Mom said she never saw any one bf before. :p

cheerfuldom
06-29-2011, 01:40 PM
The other thing is that some moms get really cozy at provider's house when they have access to provider's living space, TV, food, etc. It can be very hard to cut that sort of access off when BFing is over with or also hard to let mom know that getting cozy with BFing in the daycare is one thing and that does not entitle them to other exceptions to rules. I would love to be able to provide this but in my experience about 95% of moms just can't handle it. Like the OP said, they come in and feel like the daycare is their personal space, they disregard any rules set out because you already okayed BFing and to them, that means whatever they do during that time is okay as well under the umbrella of "I am here to BF"

lpperry
06-29-2011, 01:57 PM
I have never had anyone request to come breastfeed every day at a particular time, but if I did, I would absolutely allow it and welcome it. I think breastfeeding is super important. Pumped breastmilk is fine, but if a mom wanted to use her break to come nurse her baby, I would be thrilled.

I may not have the same kind of sleeping set up many of you talk about. A mom coming by to nurse would not wake up any sleeping children. They each have their own room or two are in one room--sometimes one is in the living room, but it is far from our entrance.

I would just have the mom come in, get baby and either nurse in my tv room or let her nurse wherever we are. I have a 2 year old dcb who comes part time. When he was an infant, his mom used to nurse him when she dropped him off at around noon. He didn't take a bottle well, so it was actually really great. She would nurse him wherever we were for about 10 minutes and then go to work. I just went on with our routine or I chatted with the mom while I played on the floor with the other kids, did art, made lunch, whatever. This mom still stays about 10 minutes at dropoff to chat and I LOVE It. I think it's so nice to have someone to talk to once a week! Actually, now that I think about it, all the moms who pick up before closing stay for 5-10 minutes and talk to me whether they are picking up or dropping off and I really like it. One of the moms sends pumped milk and when her baby was younger, I was consistently feeding him right when she picked him up at 3:15. She'd stay about 10-15 minutes and finish his bottle.

So, I don't think I'd have any issues with someone staying to breastfeed since I have people hanging around anyway and I enjoy it.

PeanutsGalore
06-29-2011, 02:13 PM
I am with you all the way!
I have always let moms nurse their babies here.
In my home it's so normal and natural that I let them do it in the living room around the kids ( they are covered). The kids ask them" what are you doing?" and the moms say "feeding my baby" and they say, "Oh" and run along. I did have a lot of explaining to do when I was nursing my daughter.
We were talking about good touching and bad touching that day and one of the new kids accused me of "bad touching " my baby :lol::lol::lol:
So, I had a lot of lessons to teach that day and I let the parents know, just in case. It was sooo funny. Mom said she never saw any one bf before. :p

Catherder has a designated area for breastfeeding; it's not the living room or playroom. She also accepts babies with special needs who need to breastfeed, she transitions them to a bottle once they are healthier, and her standard policy for non-special needs kids is no breastfeeding on site.

Of course breastfeeding is normal and natural! IMO, I don't care if women choose to cover up or not--that's their decision. The issue I've run across, and many others, is when moms come into the house and cross boundaries that disrupt the other children--interrupt naptime, play with their kids laughing, squealing and such, not knowing when to leave, etc. I'm glad that it's worked out so well for you and your clients. It's truly nice to know that there are cases where this can work out.

nannyde
06-29-2011, 02:55 PM
Not to hijack.... just wondering:

Are there any providers who have done day care full time for ten or more years consequtively who currently have breast feeding moms come and feed their child during the day.... at drop off... pick up... or mid day?

If you don't have this currently... have you allowed it within the last year?

If you do allow it currently or within the last year... can you tell me what your average daily census is NOT including your own children or school aged kids.

IIRC Crystal has more than ten years and does allow it. Anyone else?

Unregistered
06-29-2011, 03:05 PM
I would allow it IF it wasn't disrupting the other children. As soon as it's disrupting others then it has to stop. One child is no more or less important than any of the others here. In my mind it has nothing to do with breastfeeding/the relationship etc... it has to do with MY business, and how any of my clients are affected. If other people's kids' naps are being interrupted then my business is being affected.

Michelle
06-29-2011, 03:33 PM
I have been licensed for 11 years and I have always been thrilled to support
my bfing moms! I have had 8-14 kids on average for the whole 11 years.
It doesn't affect the other kids or my parents at all!.
It shouldn't matter if they are sick or underweight.
If a mom wants to feed her baby, why not let her?
What an awesome example to our young children to do such a loving thing for their babies.
Some of the kids walk around and "nurse" their babies. (over their clothes) What can be cuter than that?

If they come at nap time, they just nurse put the baby to bed and leave.
It actually helps me.

The most recent bfing moms are very proper and well mannered.
If I had any issues with moms wanting to stay,play, eat, etc. I would just address it on a case by case basis.
I would never choose a daycare that would not allow me to feed my baby.
For all the posters that are against it, have you ever been engorged?
It's not pretty!!!:eek::eek:
oh, Nan we have 6 non school age kids

PeanutsGalore
06-29-2011, 04:19 PM
I have been licensed for 11 years and I have always been thrilled to support
my bfing moms! I have had 8-14 kids on average for the whole 11 years.
It doesn't affect the other kids or my parents at all!.
It shouldn't matter if they are sick or underweight.
If a mom wants to feed her baby, why not let her?
What an awesome example to our young children to do such a loving thing for their babies.
Some of the kids walk around and "nurse" their babies. (over their clothes) What can be cuter than that?

If they come at nap time, they just nurse put the baby to bed and leave.
It actually helps me.

The most recent bfing moms are very proper and well mannered.
If I had any issues with moms wanting to stay,play, eat, etc. I would just address it on a case by case basis.
I would never choose a daycare that would not allow me to feed my baby.
For all the posters that are against it, have you ever been engorged?
It's not pretty!!!:eek::eek:
oh, Nan we have 6 non school age kids

Yes, I've been engorged when my son was spending time with family. I used a pump. :)

I'm curious what your setup is. Do you have a special area for nursing moms? Do they interact with the other kids in the daycare? Do they come at specific times and stay for a specific amount of time? Or do they just pop by whenever and leave at will? ETA: I ask because specific info on how you make it work will help me and others who would like to incorporate the service into their business. Right now, I don't see how it can be successful.

For the purposes of this conversation, it does matter if a child is sick or underweight. Breastmilk is the best nutrition for infants, and if a child is sick or underweight, they actually should be nursing--not taking a bottle--if at all possible. Your milk loses the least amount of nutrients when you feed the child directly from the breast. So if a kid is sick or underweight, then that turns the mom's request to come breastfeed into more of a need than a want, IMO.

nannyde
06-29-2011, 04:38 PM
I would never choose a daycare that would not allow me to feed my baby.

That is a very loaded statement.

If I had a parent say that to me it would be the END of any potential consideration to take them as a client.

I don't do "my child".

Breast feeding before day care or after day care isn't any different than bottle feeding for a baby that's in my house. A formula fed mother could say the SAME thing.

My bf moms do this:
Feed the baby before leaving for day care.
Pump breast milk during the day.
Give me the pumped milk at pick up
Feed the baby after you leave my house.

My formula fed Moms do this:
Feed the baby before leaving for day care.
Buy formula and bring it to my house.
Feed the baby after you leave my house.

It's not that complicated and it leaves out the "my child" of whether or not the provider "allows you to feed YOUR baby" formula or breast fed.

I have a friend that owns two centers who has a large luxurious bf mom room with a TV and comfy chairs. It's the least used piece of real estate in the center.... by far. Some how when the feeding is taken AWAY from the other kids and adults... the moms seem to not use it day after day ... week after week.

When the feedings were in the room WITH the other kids and the staff it was necessary to do the feedings before, during, and after care. Once they had their own room it wasn't necessary any more... except for the bf'ing staff who got to feed on the clock. ;) Once the "on the clock" went bye bye then even the staff stopped using the room.

The normal pattern is that new first time Moms use it when they first start. Within a few weeks they stop the before and after work feeding. Within a month or two they stop the mid day feedings. A few stick with it but it's a precious few.

It's a big draw for selling the center. That's the only way it pays for itself. It's not paid for by actual usage. If they switched it back to in the room feedings, onsite feeding would skyrocket. That's for sure. ;)

nannyde
06-29-2011, 04:42 PM
Yes, I've been engorged when my son was spending time with family. I used a pump. :)

I'm curious what your setup is. Do you have a special area for nursing moms? Do they interact with the other kids in the daycare? Do they come at specific times and stay for a specific amount of time? Or do they just pop by whenever and leave at will? ETA: I ask because specific info on how you make it work will help me and others who would like to incorporate the service into their business. Right now, I don't see how it can be successful.

For the purposes of this conversation, it does matter if a child is sick or underweight. Breastmilk is the best nutrition for infants, and if a child is sick or underweight, they actually should be nursing--not taking a bottle--if at all possible. Your milk loses the least amount of nutrients when you feed the child directly from the breast. So if a kid is sick or underweight, then that turns the mom's request to come breastfeed into more of a need than a want, IMO.

Yes pump. That's a stellar idea.

I don't care for medically fragile infants so all my convo's on this are ONLY for healthy babies.

Michelle
06-29-2011, 04:45 PM
Yes, I've been engorged when my son was spending time with family. I used a pump. :)

I'm curious what your setup is. Do you have a special area for nursing moms? Do they interact with the other kids in the daycare? Do they come at specific times and stay for a specific amount of time? Or do they just pop by whenever and leave at will? ETA: I ask because specific info on how you make it work will help me and others who would like to incorporate the service into their business. Right now, I don't see how it can be successful.

For the purposes of this conversation, it does matter if a child is sick or underweight. Breastmilk is the best nutrition for infants, and if a child is sick or underweight, they actually should be nursing--not taking a bottle--if at all possible. Your milk loses the least amount of nutrients when you feed the child directly from the breast. So if a kid is sick or underweight, then that turns the mom's request to come breastfeed into more of a need than a want, IMO.

I don't have a den, I wish I did. The moms will come in and nurse if they want to, usually in the living room. We have a very large playroom and outside space. The kids are usually very involved in their activities.
My parents aren't these strange scary people that should be kept out of my house. I have had all their kids since they were born and we are like a family. These moms teach them to call me Auntie, or Auntie Michelle.
I love it !!! We love our kids and parents but I don't allow the parents to touch or play with the other kids.
Most of the parents pick up and drop off at the door but I can't and won't forbid them from coming in to get their kids.
Licensing laws say they can come at any time to see their child.
Only the nursing moms stay or sit on the couch, and not every time or every day, they usually just leave me their frozen milk and I feed the baby.

But I would never tell a mom, " no, leave and go feed your baby somewhere else" that just has an icky kinda feeling for me. come on, seriously.:(:(
What if they have a long drive? should they feed the baby in their car?
maybe just let the baby scream all the way home til they throw up?
We all take very good care of our babies, this is a no brainer!
(I'm talking about the people who won't allow the moms in at all..the wait on the step providers) The middle of the day bfing moms... well this is my choice and my personal decision. They love me and I am always getting kids from word of mouth through them... and always good families!!

Cat Herder
06-29-2011, 04:54 PM
I don't care for medically fragile infants so all my convo's on this are ONLY for healthy babies.

OT, but relevant.

If I had my RN, like you, I could not do it either. ;)

It is ironic. :confused: I would not be covered under the good Samaritan act in case of emergency with that.

If I finish training and clinicals....I can't do my current job. :lol: I could not afford the cost of a medical director and insurance.

I have to wait until I am done with daycare. :rolleyes:

Our system is ridiculous....:ouch:

afmama
06-29-2011, 05:10 PM
I'm fairly new to these boards, but it seems like I always see post after post after post of providers complaining about parents who don't care.

This mom cares and wants to feed her kid! Let her! If she's disruptive (which I don't see how nursing can even be) then put your foot down to that!

PeanutsGalore
06-29-2011, 05:55 PM
I don't have a den, I wish I did. The moms will come in and nurse if they want to, usually in the living room. We have a very large playroom and outside space. The kids are usually very involved in their activities.
My parents aren't these strange scary people that should be kept out of my house. I have had all their kids since they were born and we are like a family. These moms teach them to call me Auntie, or Auntie Michelle.
I love it !!! We love our kids and parents but I don't allow the parents to touch or play with the other kids.
Most of the parents pick up and drop off at the door but I can't and won't forbid them from coming in to get their kids.
Licensing laws say they can come at any time to see their child.
Only the nursing moms stay or sit on the couch, and not every time or every day, they usually just leave me their frozen milk and I feed the baby.

But I would never tell a mom, " no, leave and go feed your baby somewhere else" that just has an icky kinda feeling for me. come on, seriously.:(:(
What if they have a long drive? should they feed the baby in their car?
maybe just let the baby scream all the way home til they throw up?
We all take very good care of our babies, this is a no brainer!
(I'm talking about the people who won't allow the moms in at all..the wait on the step providers) The middle of the day bfing moms... well this is my choice and my personal decision. They love me and I am always getting kids from word of mouth through them... and always good families!!

You obviously have a very specific type of relationship with your clients, and that's great. Not everyone has that luxury. Out of all the people I've worked with and met since I started this, I would only want to cultivate that type of relationship with my current client, who is made of awesome. I wish you would send your excess clients my way!

Not all babies cry until they throw up. And I really don't think anyone is advocating letting a baby leave the daycare setting in a state of starvation......we're just discussion why we will or will not allow breastfeeding moms to feed babies in daycare.

nannyde
06-29-2011, 06:14 PM
OT, but relevant.

If I had my RN, like you, I could not do it either. ;)

It is ironic. :confused: I would not be covered under the good Samaritan act in case of emergency with that.

If I finish training and clinicals....I can't do my current job. :lol: I could not afford the cost of a medical director and insurance.

I have to wait until I am done with daycare. :rolleyes:

Our system is ridiculous....:ouch:

Yup

That's exactly right.

I used to nanny for a family that owned an amusement park. They purposely didn't have any first responders onsite. Their liability for managing any medical emergencies skyrocketed if they had a medical professional onsite.

It wasn't so much dealing with park related accidents as it was just general life stuff. People getting sick while in the park with their high blood pressure, diabetes, heart problems etc. Having someone onsite that is supposed to be able to manage it is way riskier than just doing what every other business does: call 911 and have no liability.

It's pretty much the same with being a nurse doing child care. I could be chalked full of special needs kids if I would do the special needs stuff for free. I would have the liability but not be able to charge for it. It's best to just keep a house full of healthy normal kids.

It's one of the reasons I have never considered owning a center. It would turn into a medical facility really quickly. I can be very selective about taking on special needs care in a small setting because I don't have the population to be able to spread the costs of the special needs care. If I had a center I wouldn't be able to make the decisions to offer services based on what I really felt comfortable doing.

I consult for two centers but I'm never onsite when there are kids in the building. Too risky for ME. The center here that does specialize in special needs kids has a staff of nurses and the insurance to cover them. (very expensive). They have grant funding and can bill for medical procedures. That's the only way it could really work without putting your career and license at risk.

I'm only interested in healthy kid care. The only special needs care I really dig is feeding issues. I'm good at that and feel comfortable with it. Behavior issues and day to day medical care is something that I'm not passionate about. I have so much admiration for someone like you who can and does. I really do.

Cat Herder
06-29-2011, 06:26 PM
I'm fairly new to these boards, but it seems like I always see post after post after post of providers complaining about parents who don't care.

This mom cares and wants to feed her kid! Let her! If she's disruptive (which I don't see how nursing can even be) then put your foot down to that!

What Mom? This is a provider posing a hypothetical. :confused:

Many of us do let them....just at their own home if it is not medically necessary for them to do it during daycare hours or if we have a place for them to do it without disrupting other kids. ;)

Many providers do childcare out of their living rooms and do not have the luxury of offering up that extra space.. ;)

Parents can pick their child up anytime they want, or pump, they chose daycare for their child. Not us.

I don't get why this is suddenly a childcare provider responsibility...:confused: It never was in past generations.

Why should their life choices become my responsibility? I, myself, have never gotten anyone pregnant to my knowledge...:p

Michelle
06-29-2011, 06:28 PM
You obviously have a very specific type of relationship with your clients, and that's great. Not everyone has that luxury. Out of all the people I've worked with and met since I started this, I would only want to cultivate that type of relationship with my current client, who is made of awesome. I wish you would send your excess clients my way!

Not all babies cry until they throw up. And I really don't think anyone is advocating letting a baby leave the daycare setting in a state of starvation......we're just discussion why we will or will not allow breastfeeding moms to feed babies in daycare.

for those us us who have breastfed, once baby sees mommy, there will be no bottle feeding, :D:D
If I had to go somewhere and leave my baby with dh, it would go o.k. with the expressed milk but the moment I walked in the door, she cried and wanted to nurse.
I love these families! They go far and above for me because I go far and above for them. I am really good at picking families now, it's like I have a "user" radar or something now, I haven't always had it!!! believe me

PeanutsGalore
06-29-2011, 06:40 PM
I'm fairly new to these boards, but it seems like I always see post after post after post of providers complaining about parents who don't care.

This mom cares and wants to feed her kid! Let her! If she's disruptive (which I don't see how nursing can even be) then put your foot down to that!

The first words in my post were..."I let my first client do this...". She did come by to nurse her kid. And what happened while she was here is the reason why I wouldn't let anyone else do it--not unless I drastically changed my setup to seclude them, which I can't do right now.

First, the mom was a low milk producer, so I had to entertain them while she was here and then feed her kid a bottle after every breastfeeding session anyway.

Mom also came by at unpredictable times. She would tell me what time she was planning on coming over and then be late by 30-45 minutes, while her very cranky, screaming daughter waited for lunch. I don't blame her kid for being cranky--I'd be cranky if my lunch were late too, but the screaming was not only irritating to me (she was a screaming rage baby), but disruptive to my son. The only reason I didn't go ahead and feed her was because I didn't want to interfere with the nursing relationship, and I honestly think I was more concerned about that than the mother was.

The unpredictable visits interrupted my son's naptime because he was too distracted to nurse down to sleep himself while we had visitors. It even interrupted her own daughter's naptime on more than one occasion.

I frequently told her that I had to keep her daughter and my son separate, or be on the floor with them to closely supervise during free play, because they didn't get along well and ended up fighting. She would always, ALWAYS put her daughter on the floor right next to my son to play...her daughter would steal a toy...a fight ensued. And she would stand there and watch and then I would have to drop what I was doing to go and make sure nobody's eyes got gouged out.

The straw that broke the camel's back for me was that once I got another client, she popped by during his naptimes frequently. At this point, she wasn't even nursing anymore, just stopping by to play with her daughter, and while she encouraged her daughter to engage in loud play--including the screaming that her daughter had a problem with anyway--she woke the baby up. And then had the nerve to say.."Oh look, I woke up ***!" Then she laughed.

She was the type of client who did what she wanted when she wanted. She didn't put her daughter or anyone else first, she put herself first. And this was really the problem...but no longer mine, because I terminated the contract. A lot of the issues were due to my mismanagement of the whole relationship as well, but I really didn't know any better. And for me to address the disruption issue in this case, I would have had to tell her to go and feed her daughter elsewhere, which I wasn't prepared to do because that rubs me the wrong way as well.

You said you didn't see how nursing could be disruptive, and the act of nursing ISN'T disruptive. It's what can potentially happen as a result. I think it can only work when you have clients who respect not only you, but the other children in the household.

nannyde
06-29-2011, 06:44 PM
I don't have a den, I wish I did. The moms will come in and nurse if they want to, usually in the living room. We have a very large playroom and outside space. The kids are usually very involved in their activities.
My parents aren't these strange scary people that should be kept out of my house. I have had all their kids since they were born and we are like a family. These moms teach them to call me Auntie, or Auntie Michelle.
I love it !!! We love our kids and parents but I don't allow the parents to touch or play with the other kids.
Most of the parents pick up and drop off at the door but I can't and won't forbid them from coming in to get their kids.
Licensing laws say they can come at any time to see their child.
Only the nursing moms stay or sit on the couch, and not every time or every day, they usually just leave me their frozen milk and I feed the baby.

But I would never tell a mom, " no, leave and go feed your baby somewhere else" that just has an icky kinda feeling for me. come on, seriously.:(:(
What if they have a long drive? should they feed the baby in their car?
maybe just let the baby scream all the way home til they throw up?
We all take very good care of our babies, this is a no brainer!
(I'm talking about the people who won't allow the moms in at all..the wait on the step providers) The middle of the day bfing moms... well this is my choice and my personal decision. They love me and I am always getting kids from word of mouth through them... and always good families!!

Well I think your idea of how it works is very different from reality. The breast feeding onsite convo happens once and it lasts about fifteen seconds.

Would I be able to feed the baby at your house on my lunch break?

Answer: No, I don't offer that service. I do all the feedings while the kids are in my house. That is with formula fed infants and breast feeding infants.

End of discussion. If it doesn't work for them then they just boogie on down the road. I've never had anyone ask me to have them feed when they pick up. Since we feed the babies right after nap the baby wouldn't even eat at that time. The pick up time is really close to the last feeding time.

I require ALL infants to be fed BEFORE they come to day care in the mornings. I have the same convo with bf baby mama's that I do formula feeding babies. They must feed their baby before day care. I don't do first morning feedings. So feeding them at drop off would be too close in time too.

I'm curious about your licensing laws. Do they say that parent must have ACCESS to the child at all times or does it say that they must be allowed to stay on site whenever they choose for as long as they choose?

I can't imagine they require you to allow parents to stay onsite if they choose. That would be SO dangerous. I can't imagine the State not understanding that just because someone can have sex, conceive a child, and either access funding or privately pay for child care that they are inately safe around other peoples kids with a provider who is alone at a house.

Our prisons are chalked full of parents. The sex offender registry is chalked full of parents. Our psyche wards are chalked full of parents. Being a parent doesn't in any way shape or form indicate ANY level of safety. It's not an indicator or marker in ANY way that the person is safe. It just indicates the person can adopt a child or have sex, conceive a child, carry a child, give birth to a child, and have some way of paying for child care. Nothing more.... nothing less.

If they have that reg it needs to be fought and changed. It's REALLY dangerous not only for the kids but the providers kids and the provider.

PeanutsGalore
06-29-2011, 06:49 PM
for those us us who have breastfed, once baby sees mommy, there will be no bottle feeding, :D:D
If I had to go somewhere and leave my baby with dh, it would go o.k. with the expressed milk but the moment I walked in the door, she cried and wanted to nurse.
I love these families! They go far and above for me because I go far and above for them. I am really good at picking families now, it's like I have a "user" radar or something now, I haven't always had it!!! believe me

I need the radar, too. Can you bottle that ability and sell it, please?!

My own son was going to object to bottle feeding until he tasted the milk pouring out. He didn't have any problem with the bottle after that! He still prefers me if I'm nearby, but so long as he's with someone who will work with him, I ignore the crying and let them settle him down. He's a toddler. He can handle it. ;)

I think there are ways to help a child take a bottle. Don't know quite what they are yet, but I know there are ways.

GG~DAYCARE
06-29-2011, 08:11 PM
Not to hijack.... just wondering:

Are there any providers who have done day care full time for ten or more years consequtively who currently have breast feeding moms come and feed their child during the day.... at drop off... pick up... or mid day?

If you don't have this currently... have you allowed it within the last year?

If you do allow it currently or within the last year... can you tell me what your average daily census is NOT including your own children or school aged kids.

IIRC Crystal has more than ten years and does allow it. Anyone else?

I have been doing home day care for 27 years. A few months ago a new Mom asked if she could come at lunchtime to nurse her baby and I have allowed it. This is the first time in all my years that a mom has asked this. Some days it has been disruptive as she nursed in my day care room but most days it has been fine. The problem now is the baby doesn't want to nurse when Mom comes. She is too distracted. I think Mom is realizing that this may be the end to the lunch time nursing. She pumps during the day and I think it is more for her( to come nurse) than it is for her baby. The baby is perfectly fine drinking from the bottle here!!!
I have 5 kids in my care. One child leaves at noon. One gets off the sped bus at 12:20 so the time the Mom comes is chaotic anyway!
** Since most of my kids are teachers kids, I only have the baby and a 3 yr old for the summer so it has been easier.

Michelle
06-29-2011, 09:32 PM
I need the radar, too. Can you bottle that ability and sell it, please?!

My own son was going to object to bottle feeding until he tasted the milk pouring out. He didn't have any problem with the bottle after that! He still prefers me if I'm nearby, but so long as he's with someone who will work with him, I ignore the crying and let them settle him down. He's a toddler. He can handle it. ;)

I think there are ways to help a child take a bottle. Don't know quite what they are yet, but I know there are ways.

I will send you my "user" radar abilities if you can teach me how to feed a breastfed baby easily!! :D:D

Country Kids
06-29-2011, 11:44 PM
OK, here is what are requirement is for parents=The provider must allow custodial parents or legal guardians of child care children access to the HOME during the hours their child(ren)are in care.

So take that how you want. I interperet as you have to allow parents into your home when their child is in your care. I also take it to mean you aren't allowed to meet them in the front door and do a hand off.

nannyde
06-30-2011, 06:08 AM
OK, here is what are requirement is for parents=The provider must allow custodial parents or legal guardians of child care children access to the HOME during the hours their child(ren)are in care.

So take that how you want. I interperet as you have to allow parents into your home when their child is in your care. I also take it to mean you aren't allowed to meet them in the front door and do a hand off.

I don't take it that way. I think it means that you have to allow them in the home not THROUGH the home to stay as long as they want whenever they want.

I would ALWAYS allow a parent in my home. If they wanted to do a quick tour of the house to do a safety check and count kids I would be more than happy to oblige. I have no problem with that. I've never had parents that want to do that but I have had parents who want to come and watch their kids play toys with the other kids and watch us care for the kids. I don't allow that.

Blackcat31
06-30-2011, 07:44 AM
ac·cess   /ˈæksɛs/ [ak-ses]

–noun
1. the ability, right, or permission to approach, enter, speak with, or admittance: They have access to the files.
2. the state or quality of being approachable: The house was difficult to access.
3. a way or means of approach: The only access to the house was a rough dirt road.
–verb (used with object)
9. to make contact with or gain access to; be able to reach, approach, etc.


I actually called my licensor this morning to ask how she interpretted the word access and she said that parents have a right to enter the home/childcare center and retrieve their child. She also said that no where in our licensing rules does it say we are obligated (morally, ethically or legally) to allow a parent past our entry/door way. She said access means they can come pick up their child at any time they want without being told no or being made to wait until a certain time. She said the words mean that we cannot withold a child from their parent. It really has nothing to do with access to our entire homes or centers, it has to do with access to their child.

That is how I have always read it too. So in my state, handing the child off at the doorway constitutes complying with the rules. Whether that is the right thing to do or not, I don't know but as far as I am concerned it is within the guidelines of my licensing rules so.....

Country Kids
06-30-2011, 07:59 AM
I was going to call my licensor today also and ask the same question! So if the the parents can come anytime to pick up up their child what about the providers that say you cannot come during naptime. According to what you were told they are saying NO you cannot come and get your child and YOU HAVE TO WAIT FOR A CERTAIN TIME. Both of those according to your licensor are wrong or illegal (however you want to look at it). Also, even if it is in your handbook that you don't allow pickup during naptime would the state make you change it because you aren't allowing access to the child?

Blackcat31
06-30-2011, 08:13 AM
I was going to call my licensor today also and ask the same question! So if the the parents can come anytime to pick up up their child what about the providers that say you cannot come during naptime. According to what you were told they are saying NO you cannot come and get your child and YOU HAVE TO WAIT FOR A CERTAIN TIME. Both of those according to your licensor are wrong or illegal (however you want to look at it). Also, even if it is in your handbook that you don't allow pickup during naptime would the state make you change it because you aren't allowing access to the child?

As a general rule I ask that there be no pickups or drop offs during nap time since it is disruptive. However, it would be illegal to not allow it if a parent wished to do so. Again, if that is a regular time a parent wished to drop off or pick up, I would simply not enroll them into my program as it doesn't work with how I do things.

So basically, just because I ask doesn't mean they can't. KWIM? I keep parents who can oblige me in this request. If they can't, then I just don't take them.

I do want to make it clear though that I will allow a parent to come during nap time if it is a one time thing or something that can not be avoided as long as it is on a rare occassion and NOT part of their normal schedule.

So yes, in response to your question, if I told a parent "No, you cannot have your child" when they came to pick up (whether it was because it was too early for pick up or because it was nap time) it would be illegal and/or wrong.

nannyde
06-30-2011, 08:19 AM
ac·cess   /ˈæksɛs/ [ak-ses]

–noun
1. the ability, right, or permission to approach, enter, speak with, or admittance: They have access to the files.
2. the state or quality of being approachable: The house was difficult to access.
3. a way or means of approach: The only access to the house was a rough dirt road.
–verb (used with object)
9. to make contact with or gain access to; be able to reach, approach, etc.


I actually called my licensor this morning to ask how she interpretted the word access and she said that parents have a right to enter the home/childcare center and retrieve their child. She also said that no where in our licensing rules does it say we are obligated (morally, ethically or legally) to allow a parent past our entry/door way. She said access means they can come pick up their child at any time they want without being told no or being made to wait until a certain time. She said the words mean that we cannot withold a child from their parent. It really has nothing to do with access to our entire homes or centers, it has to do with access to their child.

That is how I have always read it too. So in my state, handing the child off at the doorway constitutes complying with the rules. Whether that is the right thing to do or not, I don't know but as far as I am concerned it is within the guidelines of my licensing rules so.....

Alot of the misconception of this is the media, parenting books, child care experts, and resource and refferrals hammer the concept that parents should go unnanounced/unexpected at random times and STAY to watch what's going on. That's actually the number one piece of advice for parents of kids in home care.

Look at it at the two minute mark:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkCNF-S3Y_Q

Cat Herder
06-30-2011, 08:29 AM
Alot of the misconception of this is the media, parenting books, child care experts, and resource and refferrals hammer the concept that parents should go unnanounced/unexpected at random times and STAY to watch what's going on. That's actually the number one piece of advice for parents of kids in home care.

That is because the States want them in the federally funded programs so they can get that federal grant money. (same reason they are targeting homeschool, virtual schools and charter schools)

That grant money does not come with enough regulations and they can freely move it around into their general funds and leave providers hanging whenever it suits them.

Look at all the threads about State paid programs halting payments...;) Costs almost always outweigh childrens needs at the State level.

Blackcat31
06-30-2011, 08:36 AM
Alot of the misconception of this is the media, parenting books, child care experts, and resource and refferrals hammer the concept that parents should go unnanounced/unexpected at random times and STAY to watch what's going on. That's actually the number one piece of advice for parents of kids in home care.

Look at it at the two minute mark:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkCNF-S3Y_Q

I completely understand what they are saying but honestly if I had a family who had a busy-body of a Grandma showing up unannounced on a regular basis, I would feel completely untrusted and THAT alone would make me not want to have that family. It is one thing for custodial parents to drop by unannounce, which I actually tell them they are allowed to do, (just make sure little Timmy goes with you when you leave ;)) but if their extended family members felt the need to do it too then my place is not the place for them.

I have nothing to hide in my day and every parent is welcome to spontaneously drop in whenever they wish. Also as I already mentioned......too many "drop-ins" to check up on me is NOT a trusting relationship and I like to think that I build a trusting relationship with my families. They trust me to properly care for their child and I trust that they will abide by my rules.

I also think it is important for parents to understand that we have rules as home providers for alot of reasons and if a parent wanted to know why we do what we do, I would glady explain how little things effect our day. I would gladly explain to them that random drop ins by extended family members makes daily routine and fitting in for a kid really tough...

I mean, why are parents and grandparents not dropping into public classroooms all across the country to check up on their children? You cannot even go past the front door of a public school now without signing in at the office and verifying who you are. :confused: Family childcare providers provide services in their homes...people shouldn't be allowed to abuse the word access and the fact that it is a home that someone else lives in. They can have their child ANYTIME they ask but they cannot just come barging in and expect to be allowed to.....I don't know, hang around and act as though they live there too...kwim?

nannyde
06-30-2011, 09:05 AM
That is because the States want them in the federally funded programs so they can get that federal grant money. (same reason they are targeting homeschool, virtual schools and charter schools)

That grant money does not come with enough regulations and they can freely move it around into their general funds and leave providers hanging whenever it suits them.

Look at all the threads about State paid programs halting payments...;) Costs almost always outweigh childrens needs at the State level.

To me her statements are SO loaded.

I have the capacity of eight kids. Those eight kids come with a total of 32 biological grandparents. That's not counting step grandparents. That's a TON of people who could just drop in unnanounced at any time and make their own mind up about your child care.

With her age I'm assuming this happened a long time ago but in this day and age I can't imagine allowing that. She's not even THINKING about how unsafe the whole premise of her story is.

Then the idea that a grandparent could come in and have the skill set to evaluate your business to the point of having the power to do what she said she did... pull the kid. That's mind blowing to me. :eek:

There's just no thought to this at all.

If providers WANT to have a fully open child care and any relative... any parent... come and stay whenever they want for however long they want then that's cool by me. You will always hear of stories about providers who do this successfully... can pick out the parents who won't abuse it... who operate as a family with the parents... who have OTHER daycare parents that are cool with anyone being around their kids as long as they are "in the family"...

But in most cases... my experience is that MOST providers who allow the unlocked door and access meaning whenever you want for as long as you want... HATE IT and feel like they HAVE to do it to get and keep customers.

nannyde
06-30-2011, 09:10 AM
I mean, why are parents and grandparents not dropping into public classroooms all across the country to check up on their children? You cannot even go past the front door of a public school now without signing in at the office and verifying who you are. :confused: Family childcare providers provide services in their homes...people shouldn't be allowed to abuse the word access and the fact that it is a home that someone else lives in. They can have their child ANYTIME they ask but they cannot just come barging in and expect to be allowed to.....I don't know, hang around and act as though they live there too...kwim?

I watch two centers and I'm really surprised at how short the drop offs and pick ups are. I have been at it for about six months and I can't even think of a time when I've seen a parent hanging out for more than a few minutes. I can pick the parents out pretty quickly in a room. Whenever one is hanging out I call the center to find out who it is. It's almost always a parent who KNOWS the staff assistant in the room and is visiting with that staff assistant.

When I do see a parent hanging out for a LONG time I always find out it is a parent who is getting a free visit in the room. They are usually in and out of the room and/or they have a staff assistant to visit with. The staff can often feel burdened by the visit because the kids act up and it messes with their day mojo.

Now these parents have online access to view their kid but I watch these rooms every day and I can assure you that you can only see so much. I have a trained eye and a HUGE database of info on kids and the care of kids and I have to work HARD to understand what I'm seeing. There's no way the parents see what I see a fraction of what I see every day. There's NO WAY it shows them how affectionate the staff are, how they discipline, how they manage a group of kids, how they talk to each other, etc. It's a very small percentage of info and that info has to be processed. It is NOTHING like being in the room and hanging out.

They have the chance to come anytime and stay for as long as they want but they don't. The rooms are loud and it gets boring after a while. The staff aren't interested in having "my child" conversations with them unless the staff already knows the parent. The staff doesn't work for the parents so performing for them isn't an issue. They know they are more valuable to the business than any one kids money.

So when they CAN come and go as they please and stay as long as the please they don't. The dynamic to me seems more about parents getting attention from the provider... getting to do the "i'm the boss of you"... getting to do "my child" with someone who WILL do it because rent depends on it... and getting to watch "my child" with my child's friends. When the staff could care less, there are a bunch of kids in the room, and their money doesn't affect the bottom line of the center for more than a half percent... then pop in visits aren't such a big deal. The private lounge for feeding is unused. The drop offs and pick ups are super quick.

I don't blame the parents for do the drop and run or pick up and run. The noise level alone is mind numbing to me. I'm not saying they should... I'm saying... from what I see they don't.

Are there any providers on here that work in a Center of over 100 kids who have parents come and hang out? I can see it in small centers because they have a higher percentage of the income of the business... but in situations where they are one percent or less of the income??????? Do they come in unnanounced and hang out when they don't personally know the staff?

Cathearder????? Does that happen?

Blackcat31
06-30-2011, 09:18 AM
Right on Nan!! ;) Another perfect example of simply wanting what they can't have and not wanting what is provided. Much like children.

I also agree 100% of what ever it is the parents observe is never a true and accurate picture of what the day is really like. Kids always act up when anyone (even people not related) new comes into the picture....for example, food program lady, licensor, another kids parents, etc... It is sooo much more.

THAT in my opinion is why I need to have that trusting relationship with the families I care for.

Cat Herder
06-30-2011, 10:04 AM
Do they come in unnanounced and hang out when they don't personally know the staff?

Cathearder????? Does that happen?

No, in my experience they drop the kid in their room and hang out by the directors desk to gossip if they hang out at all. Things like "Johnny's Mom drives an escalade and can't even dress her kids right, I saw that shirt at walmart when I was buying dog food. You know where she gets her money, don't you?". :rolleyes: I DO NOT miss that. :p

Occasionally you will see one or two who will peek into their child's room without being seen from the hallway, but that typically only follows a bite or scratch on their child since the provider cannot legally tell which kid did what.

Once they feel they have identified the kid, they set in on pointing out/blowing out of proportion everything that kid does in their presence as they now view him/her as "their child's nemesis".

In the absolute worst cases of this Mothers came to blows in the parking lot and police had to be called. :eek: Ridiculous...even the toddlers were looking embarrassed by their behavior. :cool:

nannyde
06-30-2011, 10:14 AM
No, in my experience they drop the kid in their room and hang out by the directors desk to gossip if they hang out at all. Things like "Johnny's Mom drives an escalade and can't even dress her kids right, I saw that shirt at walmart when I was buying dog food. You know where she gets her money, don't you?". :rolleyes: I DO NOT miss that. :p

Occasionally you will see one or two who will peek into their child's room without being seen from the hallway, but that typically only follows a bite or scratch on their child since the provider cannot legally tell which kid did what.

Once they feel they have identified the kid, they set in on pointing out/blowing out of proportion everything that kid does in their presence as they now view him/her as "their child's nemesis".

In the absolute worst cases of this Mothers came to blows in the parking lot and police had to be called. :eek: Ridiculous...even the toddlers were looking embarrassed by their behavior. :cool:

Oh yeah... NOT counting the front desk. THAT'S chocked full of parents lingering without their kids. Not too many there with their kids though.

Why do you think that it's so important for home care but doesn't really happen in Centers?

Blackcat31
06-30-2011, 10:32 AM
Oh yeah... NOT counting the front desk. THAT'S chocked full of parents lingering without their kids. Not too many there with their kids though.

Why do you think that it's so important for home care but doesn't really happen in Centers?

My opinion of why this happens is the general attitude (of parents) towards a home provider vs a center provider. A center is viewed as a business much more often than a home provider is. I think parents go into a center knowing full well that they are buying a service whereas they seek out a home childcare provider as hired help...kwim? That is my PO in that regard.

Country Kids
06-30-2011, 10:35 AM
I think that it is because in the home you have ONE person watching the children usually and you are relying on that one person to relay all information to you. That one person may perposely not tell you something because they are afraid of losing you, license, etc.

In a center there are many eyes and if there is something wrong someone is bound to tell you and you can question different people to see what the truth is. You are more likely to be welcomed to stay and observe children in a center than a home.

I know when my child went to a center I was welcomed anytime to come and watch her. They even had two way mirrors in the classroom so I could come, watch and not disturb her if I didn't want to go in. My shift ended during naptime and I was always welcomed to come in and pick her up. They accomodated to the parents not the center. I never felt unwelcomed there at all.

I think if I wasn't allowed to come into the place where my child was all day long I would be leary wondering what was going on. I do believe in family style childcare, everyone at ease with everyone else. I have a couple sets of cousins, parents that work with each other, and some that are just friends. Basically everyone knew each other before even starting here.

Country Kids
06-30-2011, 10:59 AM
Oh yeah... NOT counting the front desk. THAT'S chocked full of parents lingering without their kids. Not too many there with their kids though.

Why do you think that it's so important for home care but doesn't really happen in Centers?

My opinion of why this happens is the general attitude (of parents) towards a home provider vs a center provider. A center is viewed as a business much more often than a home provider is. I think parents go into a center knowing full well that they are buying a service whereas they seek out a home childcare provider as hired help...kwim? That is my PO in that regard.

I agree with this 100% and also with what I posted above. Please remember most of the time parents will refer to us a the babysitter.

nannyde
06-30-2011, 11:12 AM
I think that it is because in the home you have ONE person watching the children usually and you are relying on that one person to relay all information to you. That one person may perposely not tell you something because they are afraid of losing you, license, etc.

In a center there are many eyes and if there is something wrong someone is bound to tell you and you can question different people to see what the truth is. You are more likely to be welcomed to stay and observe children in a center than a home.

I know when my child went to a center I was welcomed anytime to come and watch her. They even had two way mirrors in the classroom so I could come, watch and not disturb her if I didn't want to go in. My shift ended during naptime and I was always welcomed to come in and pick her up. They accomodated to the parents not the center. I never felt unwelcomed there at all.

I think if I wasn't allowed to come into the place where my child was all day long I would be leary wondering what was going on. I do believe in family style childcare, everyone at ease with everyone else. I have a couple sets of cousins, parents that work with each other, and some that are just friends. Basically everyone knew each other before even starting here.

There is definitely safety in numbers. Children are definitely safer in Centers for serious intentional injury or death. Children are safer at any form of child care than they are with their parents or in a car.

Basically everyone knew each other before even starting here I do the opposite. I don't want clients that know each other or are relatives of me or each other. For me, it works best to have a singular relationship with everyone. The few times I have bent that rule it hasn't worked out.

No neighbors
No relatives
No friends
No friends of dc parents
No relatives of dc parents

nannyde
06-30-2011, 11:14 AM
[QUOTE=Blackcat31;123774]

I agree with this 100% and also with what I posted above. Please remember most of the time parents will refer to us a the babysitter.

I AM the babysitter. They all refer to me as the babysitter because that's what I do. I've never wanted to be a professional child care provider. ;)

Michelle
06-30-2011, 12:50 PM
Our notification of parents rights states that,
As a parent/authorized representative, you will have the right to:
!. Enter and inspect the facility child care home without advance notice whenever children are in care

we have never had a relative do this but we had some parents come in for a spot visit. I totally encourage them. I want them to know that I am taking very good care of their kids and my house is clean and safe.

The majority of the moms I have now I would trust with my own child.
Last year I took them to v.b.s. and they were suppose to dress up from another country and I wanted to do Nigeria. I asked one mom if she could braid my daughters hair and if she had any clothes from her country I could borrow She said she would make my daughter a formal Nigerian dress and braid my daughters very long hair! I just love these moms!!!
How on earth could I say "no, don't feed your baby in my home?"
I would not take a family that I am not comfortable with.
I have never had a bf mom stay longer than 20 minutes.

cheerfuldom
06-30-2011, 01:11 PM
I am glad some of you have had good experiences with BFing moms coming during the day. I have not and at this point, I do the rules based on what is best for me and group as a whole. Baby will be just fine on a bottle during the day and mom can pump. I have pumped while working outside of the home and two of my current moms do it, its not impossible. I don't allow "come in and hang out" because most of the time it involves mom wanting to socialize while kid is ignored or sniffing over my shoulder and criticizing everything I do, like I don't know how to change a diaper after the thousands I have changed by now. Parents can pop in whenever they want but that doesn't mean they can stay for a long time and do whatever they want.

Blackcat31
06-30-2011, 01:22 PM
Our notification of parents rights states that,
As a parent/authorized representative, you will have the right to:
!. Enter and inspect the facility child care home without advance notice whenever children are in care

we have never had a relative do this but we had some parents come in for a spot visit. I totally encourage them. I want them to know that I am taking very good care of their kids and my house is clean and safe.

The majority of the moms I have now I would trust with my own child.
Last year I took them to v.b.s. and they were suppose to dress up from another country and I wanted to do Nigeria. I asked one mom if she could braid my daughters hair and if she had any clothes from her country I could borrow She said she would make my daughter a formal Nigerian dress and braid my daughters very long hair! I just love these moms!!!
How on earth could I say "no, don't feed your baby in my home?"
I would not take a family that I am not comfortable with.
I have never had a bf mom stay longer than 20 minutes.

Michelle~ I think judging from previous posts in this thread, you are definitely in the minority BUT, it is awesome that you have found a market and a way to run your business the way you do because I think it sounds fabulous! I am completely and unequivicably 100% jealous that you have managed to make such close relationships with your families and never feel as though they are taking advantage of you. (I am NOT being snarky...I seriously mean this.)

However, most of us (atleast I do)feel as though once it doesn't work out or we have a bad experience, we don't wish to open up that can of worms again. Which is understandable since we need to do what works best for a group. I wish I could have a more personal relationship with the families I serve but I am not fortunate enough to have families like you have that are willing to be as respectful and understanding. Oh, don't get me wrong, I have had a few come my way that have made working in this field an absolutely wonderful experience but they are sadly far and few between. :(

Country Kids
06-30-2011, 02:01 PM
There is definitely safety in numbers. Children are definitely safer in Centers for serious intentional injury or death. Children are safer at any form of child care than they are with their parents or in a car.

Basically everyone knew each other before even starting here I do the opposite. I don't want clients that know each other or are relatives of me or each other. For me, it works best to have a singular relationship with everyone. The few times I have bent that rule it hasn't worked out.

No neighbors
No relatives
No friends
No friends of dc parents
No relatives of dc parents

I'm not being sarcastic by any means but how do you get your clients? Over the 15 years I have done this all mine have been by word of mouth. I even had some referells by people that never came here but knew by the reputation and services I offer that they were comfortable giving me a high recommendation to people.

Never though do I do care for my own personal family or friends. Big no, no there!

How would you even tell someone that you wouldn't except a child because they already have a relative or friend that already goes there. I can't imagine telling someone that. My fear is losing clients because of this. Also, what would you do if you didn't know they were friends till after they started? Actually that is what happened to me-I started two of mine and then found out two of the dads worked together and another was good friends of one of the dads. Right there are three families that knew each other but I didn't know till after they came.

Country Kids
06-30-2011, 02:02 PM
[QUOTE=Blackcat31;123774]

I agree with this 100% and also with what I posted above. Please remember most of the time parents will refer to us a the babysitter.

I AM the babysitter. They all refer to me as the babysitter because that's what I do. I've never wanted to be a professional child care provider. ;)


Did you by any chance read the thread that was going on while you were gone? It was all about being a babysitter or a childcare provider!

nannyde
06-30-2011, 02:19 PM
I'm not being sarcastic by any means but how do you get your clients? Over the 15 years I have done this all mine have been by word of mouth. I even had some referells by people that never came here but knew by the reputation and services I offer that they were comfortable giving me a high recommendation to people.

Never though do I do care for my own personal family or friends. Big no, no there!

How would you even tell someone that you wouldn't except a child because they already have a relative or friend that already goes there. I can't imagine telling someone that. My fear is losing clients because of this. Also, what would you do if you didn't know they were friends till after they started? Actually that is what happened to me-I started two of mine and then found out two of the dads worked together and another was good friends of one of the dads. Right there are three families that knew each other but I didn't know till after they came.

I had a situation once where I worked for two ladies and found out that they knew each other. One Mom saw the other Moms kid on a walk. Find out they once were BFF's and one was the maid of honor at the others wedding years before. They broke up their bff's over a man.

They rekindled their friendship for a few months and then when it went sour again one gave notice and left.

None of it had anything to do with me. It was good while it was good but not so good when it wasn't.

I get my kids by advertising. My parents are here for many years so their reference is very valued by parents considering placing their kid here. I also have pictures online on my website and you can see the kids through the years here from birth to Kindy. That is a SUPER seller for the day care.

I've tried taking friends and it doesn't work out. It's SO risky if the incoming parent doesn't work out especially if the parents are bff's. They want their kids raised in the same house so there is a lot of value to making it work. It's a huge risk of income loss to loose both.

I've had to term a bff and it was very very difficult. I won't do it again.