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nannyde
07-04-2011, 11:52 AM
Does this sound right?

I've been researching staff turnover in centers and came across this: http://www.mdchildcare.org/mdcfc/pdfs/StaffTurnover.pdf

The short story is that these guys sent out questionnaires to 1489 centers regarding staff turnover. Out of the 1489 ... 372 responded.

Out of the 372 they claimed to have 4116 employees during the calandar year of 2006.

They asked them how many staff left their position during that time and the result was nineteen percent of directors, 28 percent of senior staff (group leaders) and 42 percent of teacher aides. Average for the whole group was 33 percent.

That doesn't make sense to me. I think it's way higher than that. It would be saying that if you had a center with 50 aides you would have 21 of the assistants gone a year later... and 29 of them still there.

I am thinking a couple of things: There wasn't a breakdown with full and part time employees. 75 percent of the centers didn't respond. Of the 25 percent that did .... they were reporting information from 21 months ago to 9 months ago. There was no benefit to the centers to do the survey and nobody behind them checking their employment records to verify.

I'm writing an article and I can't find turnover statistics that are verified not just declared.

For those of you with center experience would you say that 33 percent turnover for the whole staff and 42 percent for "assistants" was/is your experience?


Just a side note: This article says:

This is from 2008.
The Center for the Child Care Workforce (CCW)
reports that child care workers have a higher
concentration of poverty-level jobs than almost any
other occupation in the United States. CCW notes that
only 22 occupations out of 820 surveyed by the Bureau
of Labor Statistics in 2004 reported having lower mean
wages than child care workers. Among the job
classifications that have average earnings within five
percent of child care workers are short order cooks,
parking lot attendants, and maids.5 :eek::eek:

familyschoolcare
07-04-2011, 12:59 PM
The center I worked at has a much lower turn over rate however, most about 80% thought about quieting. When they looked into other jobs they found out that what the director had been telling them was true we had the best medical benefits package in the valley for day care employees and the pay was better than most places in the valley. Most of the parents that brought children from another center said that it seamed like there was a new teacher in their child's room every 6 months.

daycare
07-04-2011, 03:17 PM
Nan
I have never worked in a center however my older two kids attended one for many years. Both of my kids went through teachers like water.
I can honestly recall only 1 lady that stayed the entire 5 years my kids were there. In the first year Alone when my daughter was a baby she went through 4 teachers in less than one year. I too would agree that the turn over is much higher. Most Of the staff were college students trying to get hours or credit towards their degrees. For others it seems Like they were working there as a stepping stone waiting for something that paid better to come along.
Hope this helps some.

rjskids
07-04-2011, 07:34 PM
I've heard the centers around here have very high turn over rates. The one I worked at did not. The reason for that was because of the higher pay and great benefits. I would say over the course of 15 years I saw 8-10 people leave and usually it was not because of job stress but because a lot of them had teaching degrees and went on to teaching grade school. From what I had heard from other centers in the area those kids had different teacher several times and year.
I think the high turnover rate not just has to do with pay and benefits, but because a lot of people are just "dabbling" in the career. Our center tended to only hire people that had great experience and/or seriousness in teaching. Where other places were more apt to take newcomers who may think working in a daycare will be fun and "easy" and then find out otherwise.
On the other hand...it was a stressful job. It was stressful cause I felt like the place seamed like it leaned more towards quantity instead of quality. Large classrooms with 20-30 kids a day with 4-6 teachers...and even though we were always in ratio it is just VERY busy with that many kids in one room. And on top of it, the conflicts that go on between teachers. I do miss my coworkers now because after working together for 10+ years they do become like family but there was a lot of drama between teacher/teacher, teacher/parents, parents/director, director/employees...being a in home provider is so much more peaceful...boring, but peaceful...

Hunni Bee
07-04-2011, 09:09 PM
I work at a pretty small, private-owned center, 65 - 75 kids. The actual staff turnover is pretty low, there are only a few of us though. The assistant turnover rate is higher at about an average of 6 months. Could be a lot worse.

We are more of a family oriented, family-style center...as opposed to a corporate, chain center. I think that accounts for the lower turnover rates.

Cat Herder
07-05-2011, 05:04 AM
I think the numbers are skewed because the 1117 centers who did not turn in their surveys were in a "state of employee transition" and lost their surveys. :lol::lol:


My old center had the class schedules and picture menus (allergies, etc next to child photos) of the kids on the wall....and those were NOT for the parents to see. It made it easier to "transition" New Employees (warm bodies) into their rooms.

JenNJ
07-05-2011, 05:35 AM
At chain centers it must be MUCH higher in my opinion. At local, locally owned private centers it much lower. My son has been in a preschool program at a family owned local center for two years. I would estimate a staff of 23 total employees, both part and full time. Only one assistant has left (chose an out of state college) and one teacher will be leaving in a few weeks to move across the country and teach preschool in NM. I think a lot has to do with the dcation levels of the teachers. All assistants must be enrolled in college and working towards a degree in education or a closely related field. All head teachers met have a bachelors in education. It is a family owned center and 4 members of the family work there full time. They are heavily involved in the local community and also offer kindergarten.

nannyde
07-05-2011, 05:54 AM
At chain centers it must be MUCH higher in my opinion. At local, locally owned private centers it much lower. My son has been in a preschool program at a family owned local center for two years. I would estimate a staff of 23 total employees, both part and full time. Only one assistant has left (chose an out of state college) and one teacher will be leaving in a few weeks to move across the country and teach preschool in NM. I think a lot has to do with the dcation levels of the teachers. All assistants must be enrolled in college and working towards a degree in education or a closely related field. All head teachers met have a bachelors in education. It is a family owned center and 4 members of the family work there full time. They are heavily involved in the local community and also offer kindergarten.

Jen
Can you tell me the cost of the preschool... the schedule...etc. Have you ever figured out the hourly rate? With that kind of staff it would have to be at least 7-8 dollars per hour per kid.

Money has everthing to do with it. I think there is a huge difference between preschool programs and centers who do full 12 hour days. I'm specifically interested in the full programs who may have preschool in their day care rate... not facilities that have morning and afternoon preschool ala carte or stand alone preschools. That's another deal all together.

The study cited was for full time centers. I wonder now how many of the respondents were doing all day center and additional preschool ala carte. That would skew the numbers too because the preschool when done five to seven hours a week is MUCH more per hour than the hourly rate of all day day care.

JenNJ
07-05-2011, 06:57 AM
Jen
Can you tell me the cost of the preschool... the schedule...etc. Have you ever figured out the hourly rate? With that kind of staff it would have to be at least 7-8 dollars per hour per kid.

Money has everthing to do with it. I think there is a huge difference between preschool programs and centers who do full 12 hour days. I'm specifically interested in the full programs who may have preschool in their day care rate... not facilities that have morning and afternoon preschool ala carte or stand alone preschools. That's another deal all together.

The study cited was for full time centers. I wonder now how many of the respondents were doing all day center and additional preschool ala carte. That would skew the numbers too because the preschool when done five to seven hours a week is MUCH more per hour than the hourly rate of all day day care.
The center my son attends offers 12 hour days, but it is a learning facility from age 2 on. They offer care for as young as 6 weeks, but there is no set curriculum for those classes. Just care. Many, many of the children who attend are children of teachers. It also happens to be the least expensive option for full 12 hour care in a 5 mile radius. It is a brand new facility (4 years old) with a computer learning station, 2 playgrounds divided by age, veggie/fruit garden, and a spare classroom used just for large motor activities on days it is too hot or cold to be outside. They also host dance classes and martial arts classes (additional cost) in this room a few times each week from outside instructors.

Monday through Friday - 6:30am - 6:30pm. For 5 full time days for age 3+ it is $200 per week which includes pre-k curriculum (2 hours learning time each day) and 2 snacks. Breakfast is not served but may be brought in by parents and eaten in the classroom. Lunch is an additional charge of $3 per day or lunch may be sent in from home. Each class from 3+ has one teacher and one assistant. My sons class has 18 children. They do 2 hours of outside time a day minimum. Fresh veggies are grown in the garden and served as snacks when ripe.

If my math is right, based on all 18 kids attending FT, 5 days per week for all 12 hours, it works out to be $3.33 per hour. Part time schedules cost more per day which would raise the hourly rate.
1 day - $70
2 days - $110
3 days - $140
4 days - $180
5 days - $200

nannyde
07-05-2011, 08:42 AM
The center my son attends offers 12 hour days, but it is a learning facility from age 2 on. They offer care for as young as 6 weeks, but there is no set curriculum for those classes. Just care. Many, many of the children who attend are children of teachers. It also happens to be the least expensive option for full 12 hour care in a 5 mile radius. It is a brand new facility (4 years old) with a computer learning station, 2 playgrounds divided by age, veggie/fruit garden, and a spare classroom used just for large motor activities on days it is too hot or cold to be outside. They also host dance classes and martial arts classes (additional cost) in this room a few times each week from outside instructors.

Monday through Friday - 6:30am - 6:30pm. For 5 full time days for age 3+ it is $200 per week which includes pre-k curriculum (2 hours learning time each day) and 2 snacks. Breakfast is not served but may be brought in by parents and eaten in the classroom. Lunch is an additional charge of $3 per day or lunch may be sent in from home. Each class from 3+ has one teacher and one assistant. My sons class has 18 children. They do 2 hours of outside time a day minimum. Fresh veggies are grown in the garden and served as snacks when ripe.

If my math is right, based on all 18 kids attending FT, 5 days per week for all 12 hours, it works out to be $3.33 per hour. Part time schedules cost more per day which would raise the hourly rate.
1 day - $70
2 days - $110
3 days - $140
4 days - $180
5 days - $200

does your child just attend preschool? What's the schedule of that and the money?

Unregistered
07-05-2011, 10:56 AM
We have a lot of good centers in my town. Of those centers, only 1 has high turnover and the others have almost nothing - the one that does is a national chain and pays their staff barely above minimum wage in our state and forces 1 staff person to a classroom of preschool age and higher. I'm sure you can all guess which chain that is. All the other centers have 2 person classrooms.

Sugar Magnolia
07-06-2011, 10:26 AM
We have zero percent turnover here Nannyde, but as you know we are family run SMALL center. But we have a big center across the street from us. That building has housed 3 (!!) different daycares in the 6 years we have been here. We've had clients come here because they were sick to death of the constant turnover. I have a child who went there and had 4 teachers in 6 months. This child was about to turn one and was then eligible to come here. Mom went to pick him up one day and there was ONE teacher for TEN infants! A flagrant violation of law! He was enrolled here the next day. As a small center, it appalls me sometimes to hear how large centers conduct their business. To them, the name of the game is to have as many kids for as few (cheaply paid) staff as possible. Who thinks one staff person is appropriate for 15 (!!) 3 year olds? I don't! I'd quit too if I had to work in those conditions for minimum wage.

Unregistered
07-06-2011, 11:51 AM
I've worked at 3 different centers in the past and I'm a home daycare provider now. It was my experience that the staff turnover rate was higher in the daycare that is a chain daycare and it was lower at the smallest daycare center that I worked at. There are so many contributing factors in staff turnover. I think that some of the big ones that I noticed were employees of the center getting sick and calling in and that would get the director all fired up. Eventually, the employee would end up getting fired due to attendance. Also, it seemed like the younger employees would get the job, work for a short time and quit because it wasn't how they thought it would be. Money is huge in reasons for staff turnover. I was a lead teacher at one of the centers and I made less than $9/hour. Geez, just thinking about how many hours I put into that job and all of the effort and care that I put into my job makes me see red!

TGPII
03-29-2012, 04:56 PM
:p If the staffing turn over is so high why am I having a hard time find a job?
Compared to most low paying jobs such as fast food and retail you need lots of education for preschool jobs. College hours, CPR, food licensee ect. Instead of 2 or 3 p/t employees hire one at full time? Often people get in the field and realize it is not for them. Some don't realize there is diaper duty Most of use got in the field to work with kids, but there are adults such as co workers and parents you have to deal with.

Due to the economy that number should be going down. I have worked at a few private daycares. I never left due to partners or children. Maybe if the field paid more and offered affordable benefits you would not have issues! It was usually due to no hours, no benefits, very low pay or the directors/owners are crazy. :eek:

Bookworm
03-29-2012, 08:38 PM
I work in a small center (less than 100 children) and our turnover rate tends to be higher among part-time employees. Some of the reasons for this is because of low pay and the claim that's it "too much work".

I am a firm believer of "you get what you pay for" and I think that this why turnover is so high in centers. Add that to too many kids in a classroom and no benefits for employees, and you will always have high turnover in centers.

In my state there is no educational requirement to work in a daycare and some preschools. Most only look for 6 months experience so that the person they hire is able to be in a classroom by themselves at one point in the day.

There is always going to be a relatively high turnover in chain centers because the main concern is the bottom line and the kids and teachers come in second. This is my opinion based on working in a chain center for many years.

TGPII
03-30-2012, 05:32 AM
If you do get benefits you can't afford them. Also to be an aid you need just a high school diploma. To be a teacher/director you need college. Yet places want to pay you like you have no college. Also I worked at one center were the owner and director treated the employers very poorly. I have usually worked m-f no nights(6:30 PM at the latest) or weekends, how many jobs give you that? If their is a high turnover why am I having issues getting back into the field?

One place wanted you to wear dress close ties for males, dress for females(you should see teachers in dress while trying to work with kids.) That cost more however the place did not want to pay more. Another place would always send me home. Why did you hire me if your going to send me home early? I work in a small center (less than 100 children) and our turnover rate tends to be higher among part-time employees. Some of the reasons for this is because of low pay and the claim that's it "too much work".

I am a firm believer of "you get what you pay for" and I think that this why turnover is so high in centers. Add that to too many kids in a classroom and no benefits for employees, and you will always have high turnover in centers.

In my state there is no educational requirement to work in a daycare and some preschools. Most only look for 6 months experience so that the person they hire is able to be in a classroom by themselves at one point in the day.

There is always going to be a relatively high turnover in chain centers because the main concern is the bottom line and the kids and teachers come in second. This is my opinion based on working in a chain center for many years.

TGPII
03-30-2012, 05:34 AM
Some say a high turn over rate is bad for students. However doesn't that prepare them for the real world? We have zero percent turnover here Nannyde, but as you know we are family run SMALL center. But we have a big center across the street from us. That building has housed 3 (!!) different daycares in the 6 years we have been here. We've had clients come here because they were sick to death of the constant turnover. I have a child who went there and had 4 teachers in 6 months. This child was about to turn one and was then eligible to come here. Mom went to pick him up one day and there was ONE teacher for TEN infants! A flagrant violation of law! He was enrolled here the next day. As a small center, it appalls me sometimes to hear how large centers conduct their business. To them, the name of the game is to have as many kids for as few (cheaply paid) staff as possible. Who thinks one staff person is appropriate for 15 (!!) 3 year olds? I don't! I'd quit too if I had to work in those conditions for minimum wage.

TGPII
03-30-2012, 05:42 AM
does your child just attend preschool? What's the schedule of that and the money?

200/5 x 12 = 60 = 3.33 x 18 = 60

Kaddidle Care
03-30-2012, 05:47 AM
Sometimes if someone is sick, there isn't enough coverage if they are running thin on staff in the first place. Not smart.

At our Center EVERYONE is part time and we have lots of people available to do substitute work. In fact, we have 4 that are stand by just for this purpose.

It's possible that when the woman went to pick up her infant the other staff member was in the bathroom. (sometimes you do have to go!) I hope she asked what the deal was.

Ariana
03-30-2012, 09:34 AM
I would venture to say that this is accurate. Some centres that are unionized or gov't subsidized have very little staff turnover. The centre where I worked the average amount of time a teacher worked there was around 20 years! The high salary and good benefits meant higher job satisfaction and less turnover.

Like others have said the "chain" or "big box" daycares have lower pay, next to no benefits and hire unqualified people in their early 20's who tend to leave these types of jobs quickly. Even if they are educated they realize they can't exactly survive on $10 an hour.

I think those two put together and then averaged out would net similar numbers as to what you've said. Of course with all stats there are of course flaws and my experience comes from Canada.

Kim
03-30-2012, 10:14 AM
I'm in Maryland. During college I worked at 3 different centers in MD- two were privately owned and 1 was a chain. The turnover rate at the chain center was much higher IMO. I left the first center (privately owned) because I moved. I left the second center (privately owned) because they couldn't accommodate my student teaching schedule while I was finishing college. They had a strict rule of working either a morning or afternoon shift so there was consistency for the kids- this was THE best center I've ever seen. They paid me well, respected me, were very organized and welcomed me back if I ever wanted to return. I still keep in touch with a couple people I worked with back then (it's been 10 years) and about half of the staff is still the same. The third center was a chain. I was there for 6 months just to get me through my last semester of college before I started teaching in the public schools. During those 6 months I worked with a different person many times. People were shifted from room to room wherever the warm body was needed. I was paid less than I was at the private center. I liked the director but I could tell she was frustrated at times of having to always answer to the franchise owner.

All that was about 10 years ago. Maryland Dept. of Ed. has made lots of changes since then to their training requirements for child care workers. They are much more strict now and are trying to focus more on making sure kids are more prepared for school rather than just allowing centers to have warm bodies in the room and I am happy to see it. The downside is that they are requiring more education for people in the field making it more difficult to qualify but the upside is that it reduces the turnover rate and keeps people that WANT to be in this field in it. Before these changes I worked with many people that had no interest in kids but thought it was an easy job to get them through college. These changes are also making it more difficult for directors to find qualified people because they can't afford to pay them more but they are required to spend more money these days on continued education. It's frustrating to have to spend more time and money for continued education but not see that reflected in your paycheck. Thankfully I already have a degree in ECED so the additional training I have to take is minimal each year. So many people around here think they can just start up a home daycare but don't understand that it's not that easy. Even home providers have to have a minimum of 24 clock hours of approved trainings to get started, 18 more clock hours your first year then 12 more each additional year. Staff qualifications also apply for centers. You can't just walk into a center and start working. You must qualify with proof of education or experience in lieu of education. It is broken down by age group/level- Infant/Toddler, Preschool and School Age. The last center I worked at I was an assistant director and had to supervise the director to help her get get her approval to be able to substitute in the infant room and preschool rooms when needed. She had experience with school age kids only so even though she was the director she couldn't substitute in the infant room or preschool room because she didn't have experience or education with those age groups.

All that just to say that I think the turnover rate you found is probably close to accurate at least speaking for the state of MD and other areas that have higher requirements for staff. :rolleyes:

SimpleMom
03-30-2012, 10:18 AM
I worked at two. Both were amazing centers with great staff. The main group leaders and Directors stayed on. It was the aides and teachers that came "into" the group that usually left the most.
So, for me it sounds right, but I've heard it's not the case for most Centers.

Sugar Magnolia
03-30-2012, 10:29 AM
Some say a high turn over rate is bad for students. However doesn't that prepare them for the real world?

My opinion, but a child (especially babies, toddlers and preschoolers) should have stability in caregivers. Stability is good. Uncertainty is not good. "prepare for the real world?". Not at ages birth through five. I just can't see how high turnover and the uncertainty it brings, could be good for a small child, makes no sense. My center's complete lack of turnover is a very important plus for my families.

My3cents
03-30-2012, 10:38 AM
The center I worked for had a 100% flip turn over to the point that it is not there anymore:lol: Bad Management, bad experience. Took the good and left the rest.....me happy now:lol: