How Long Should 4 Year Old Nap

[Unregistered]

I run a family daycare and in the state of Maryland it is a requirement that the children get a 2 hour nap/rest period. I give all the kids a nap from 12:30-2:30 -ish. I have one parent who told her 4 year old, not to nap at my house anymore. I do not insist that she sleep, but lay down quietly. She is allowed to read books, etc., as long as she is quiet for the other kids. She is the 1st one asleep everyday. She falls asleep within 5 minutes of laying down. Her parents have always allowed her to stay awake at night till 10:30-11:30 from the time she was an infant. Now they think she is staying awake that late because of the nap. I need to add, she is only here part-time, but goes to bed everynight that late. Every child I have ever watched including my own, have taken naps and still go to bed by 8-8:30. I feel that the parents are blaming me and my nap policy for their child not going to bed at night, when I feel it is their lack of dicipline on getting their child on a decent schedule. Any opinions would be appreciated, however, with all the new centers opening around us, I cannot afford to tick people off. In my area, alot of home providers are struggling and I know they can go just about anywhere.

[Unregistered]

ALL of the children i keep have naptime. ALL of them. Its in the contract and that is my "break" time(if you want to call it that). I too tell the parents that we have a 2 hour quiet time regardless of if your child sleeps or not. Period! Now if these parents were to take them to a larger center they would have to have quiet time also. I had a parent one time tell me that she doesn't use sippy cups at home (her kids were 1 and 4 at the time) and that the only time they are allowed to drink is when they are sitting at the table. I told her that they will be using sippy cups while at my house cause i don't want it on the carpet or furniture. Her rebuttlle......well if there sitting at the table they won't get it every where. Ok that just ticked me off........My response was i don't make the children sit at the table everytime they need a drink and that all the kids in my care WILL be using sippy cups including yours. That parent brings a regular cup every morning an that cup gets dumped out into a sippy cup! So i guess what my point is that if the child is sleeping at your house then let her sleep cause she is not getting the proper sleep at home. And i would just stand your ground on this. Just a word of advice.........Don't ever ever portray yourself as a push over cause they WILL push you over and over and over. Stand your ground, your house, your rules!!

[Ms.Sue]

:) haa!! You hit it perfect. It's not the child with the issue - it's the parents - as usual. Most 4 year olds still need to take a nap - especially if their parents are allowing them to stay up late....
Let the child sleep --- tell them the truth - "don't let her stay up all night - be the parent and put her to bed!!!!!!!!!"
Dont back down on what you believe - and put the responsibility BACK ON THE PARENTS!
I've been through is 100's of time too! But, I tell them like it is - you need to be the parent and put your child to bed (their bed) not the parents either!
And, I explain - if they can't control a 4 year old - then they might as well forget it when the child is about 15 years old!

(i'm originally from maryland too - live in PA now)

[leadhead15717]

First of all What are you supposed to do torture the child to stay awake?:p
Secondly if it is a required nap by the state then case closed, if it is your policy stand fast, don't give, Give a little here give a little there and pretty soon the inmates are running the asylum so to speak.

Third if the child falls asleep that fast at nap time they obviously need the rest, Kids don't sleep unless they need it!

Lastly the Parents need to be parent's as was said and set the times the child goes to bed. What are they feeding them pure sugar lol.

[MissLisa]

At our centers we too have "quiet time". It is healthy for them to take a nap but some don't. I try to explain to the parents that it is part of regulations but it is also discipline in preparing for Kindergarten because they are required to follow instructions and be able to control talking when told too. Our policy is that they have to lay quietly on the cot for the first 30 minutes and after that they are allowed to get a book for on their cot. If they still don't fall asleep after another 30 minutes we give them papers to do quietly at the table. (coloring page, tracing name, counting) Mostly learning papers.

We had a parent that allowed the child to stay up as late as she wanted to. The child had a TV in her room. When she came in at 6 am she would sleep till snack time and then was the first to fall off to sleep at quiet time. We gradually started to wake her a bit earlier each time. A bit earlier than snack time, and then instead of 3 pm... we would wake her soon... and try to have her the last to lay down. Eventually she did start to fall off to sleep at home a bit earlier. But without cooperation from the parent at home it is going to be difficult.
To discuss it with the parent I just got into a general conversation and told her how tired the child always was and made it more a "POOR MOM" issue... they respond to giving them sympathy.. and said .. I am sure it must be hard to get her to sleep at night... I don't envy you with school coming... she will be hard to get up for you... what every we can do to help... and let her know that you are going to allow her to nap but attempt to shorten it more and more in hopes that she will fall off to sleep at home earlier for her so MOM GETS SOME DOWN TIME... got to make it sound as though you are working with her .... and you feel empathy for her working so hard and caring for kids... give her pats on the back while giving her sympahy. They eat it up.

[Unregistered]

Thanks for all the comments. Just another bit of info here. She has been sleeping in her parents bed since birth and just about a month ago, they tried to get her in her own room. Needless to say, the child told me on Monday, that her mom just moved her bed into her parents room. I am just going to do as I always have and have her take a nap with the other kids. She very clearly runs her household, but I will not allow her to run my daycare. I do need that break every day, and actually look forward to catching up on the laundry and cleaning at nap time. It is the only way, I can get my own chores done.

[Unregistered]

My daughter turned 4 in Oct. and she takes a nap almost everyday. After lunch she ususally says she's tired. sometimes she only naps for 30 mins and other times she's out for 2-3 hours and yes, she still goes to bed by 8:30.

[Unregistered]

I run a family daycare and in the state of Maryland it is a requirement that the children get a 2 hour nap/rest period. I give all the kids a nap from 12:30-2:30 -ish. I have one parent who told her 4 year old, not to nap at my house anymore. I do not insist that she sleep, but lay down quietly. She is allowed to read books, etc., as long as she is quiet for the other kids. She is the 1st one asleep everyday. She falls asleep within 5 minutes of laying down. Her parents have always allowed her to stay awake at night till 10:30-11:30 from the time she was an infant. Now they think she is staying awake that late because of the nap. I need to add, she is only here part-time, but goes to bed everynight that late. Every child I have ever watched including my own, have taken naps and still go to bed by 8-8:30. I feel that the parents are blaming me and my nap policy for their child not going to bed at night, when I feel it is their lack of dicipline on getting their child on a decent schedule. Any opinions would be appreciated, however, with all the new centers opening around us, I cannot afford to tick people off. In my area, alot of home providers are struggling and I know they can go just about anywhere.
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Hi,
I am a provider. I get that problem ocassionally with a parent complaining that their child won't go to sleep. If you try doing a vigorous activity at 10:30 or 10:45 (outdoor play, a game), then a quiet activity at 11:00 (coloring, books, free play, childrens show) (so you can prepare lunch), have lunch at 11:30 and naptime at 12:00, it does make a difference in when the children fall asleep for the parents.


Games they love that tire them out, but are safe
Have them start at one end of a hall or room and you tell them to be something you name (dog, cat, snake, baby, tree, etc...). You or an older child show them how to be it. They go from start to finish and back to start for each one.


Dancing with big balloons - they bounce and stick, they love it and relay races

Have a great day

[Unregistered]

I am a parent who is concerned with the amount of time that my is in napping at daycare. I picked her up early the other day, 4:00 p.m., and she had just awoke about 15 minutes before my arrival and they went down for nap at 12:30. I think that is excessive. I put her to bed by eight everday and she struggles to fall to sleep. Most times she tosses and turns in bed for two hours before she actually falls to sleep. What can I do to address this issue?

[mac60]

I too have children that will sleep till 4. But they didn't fall asleep till 2:30 or so. So, my point is, maybe she didn't fall asleep till towards the end of nap time, and I WON"T wake a sleeping child unless it is getting close to pick up time. At age 4, taking a 2/3 hour nap is common at my house. These kids get up early in the morning and their days are very busy.

As far as your child not wanting to go to bed at night. It has nothing to do with the nap at childcare, I would say it has more to do with how it is simply done at home. Kids have a way to get what they want at home.

I too have went thru the "Please don't let them sleep for more than 1 hour" because they won't go to sleep at home. Hmm, take out the tv and dvd player from their bedroom. Put them to bed at a descent time, shut out the light, and discipline them when they disobey. This is what is frustrating, the provider gets the blame for a child not wanting to sleep, yet the parent lets the kid lay in bed and watch tv.....this was the situation with me.

I have a kindergartener in my care, goes in the morning, and he gets back at 12:30, eats, and takes a 1 1/2 to 2 hour nap everyday. His days are very busy. I also have a first grader in my care, no school days, she lays down also, her choice to look at books or do something queitly, and 99% of the time she rolls over and goes to sleep.

[AmandasFCC]

I recently implemented mandatory nap/rest time (like 2-3 weeks ago) in my home daycare. The 4 year old in my care USED to lie down nicely, I would rub his back just like every one else's and he would fall asleep for usually about half an hour to an hour. On Wednesday he suddenly decided he's going to SCREAM and cry for Mommy at quiet time. I don't know where it came from. I've told him every day, you don't have to sleep, you just have to lie down quietly and until Wednesday, it's been no problem, he's been good. I don't know what the change was - other than on Wednesday when his mom picked him up she told me she'd prefer him not to nap because apparently he had a really hard time going to bed - and I noticed too that all of a sudden when he was napping the next day he'd start talking about nightmares he'd been having. Weird, right? He screamed again at naptime yesterday. I was advised by a friend of mine who's worked in centres for over 6 years to try telling him if he needs to cry, to cry into a pillow (because he's clearly doing it just to be disruptive), and he would put his chin on the pillow and scream out of it even louder. I don't know where this came from! But yesterday after he screamed for 10 minutes and woke everyone up, I finally said "If you lie quietly until (the other child) goes to sleep, we can do a craft after" and instantly he smiled and shut up. It's strange - this kid is usually VERY agreeable. He usually cries when Mom first drops him off (actually that's even been minimal the last couple weeks) and he can clearly see from other kids that I'm not one to cater to whining and things like that - I had a 3 year old who was VERY "strong willed" about potty training, meal times, shoes, etc. and I would actually sit there with him for 45 minutes until he'd use his words to say "I'm finished eating" or put his shoes on or whatever, when I had someone else here to take the other kids out to play or whatever. I don't give into ploys for attention.

Sorry to put this in your thread - I don't have any advice, just needed to share this bizarre behaviour...

[laundryduchess@yahoo.com]

have you just simply told him, when you yell at nap you will get no craft time. Period. Hes 4, not a baby. He seems smart. Be straight with him. when he arrives say Little Billy, if you scream at my home you will have to lose an activity. If your quiet, you get the activity.

Make it story time or playdough time or whatever,... something that happens BEFORE nap remind him the first day during the activity that if he screams he will not do the activity the next day. If he does scream,.... the next day say,.. Billy, you dont get to play (the activity) today because of your behavior yesterday. Im sorry but you chose to throw a fit, you need to go sit while we do the activity. Then when you lay them down say ,.. Billy,.. if you scream today you will not do the activity tomorrow. It will be fresh in his mind that he missed out because of his behavior. I bet it will take one day,.. possibly two to fix this issue. If it doesnt work the first day pick something really fun to exclude him from. And if anyone wants to flame me go ahead. Thats how it works here,.. You behave and get fun things,.. You misbehave and you dont. Amazingly,.. the kids behave,.. listen and after a time or two missing a fun thing,.. they magically "get it". My opinion,.. you dont give a tantrum a reward. and any attention is attention even if its to say,.. hush, be quiet,.. stop yelling,.. Bad behavior is ignored,..Ignored behavior is not being re-enforced. the bad behavior that gets no attention is no longer getting them attention so its not worth the effort. They see that good behavior is rewarded with fun things,... the world keeps spinning and everyone is friends.

[AmandasFCC]

That was my plan for today, thanks :) We had a little chat right before we did the craft yesterday, where I said "When you scream and cry like that it's really hard for the other kids who need their naps to get to sleep. I don't mind doing crafts with you at quiet time, but you have to lie down quietly while they get to sleep first". He agreed, we shook on it (his idea lol) then he was really quiet and perfectly nice the rest of the day. I don't expect to have this problem again, but I'm going to remind him at nap time today when we talked about.

[Unregistered]

I am a parent who is concerned with the amount of time that my is in napping at daycare. I picked her up early the other day, 4:00 p.m., and she had just awoke about 15 minutes before my arrival and they went down for nap at 12:30. I think that is excessive. I put her to bed by eight everday and she struggles to fall to sleep. Most times she tosses and turns in bed for two hours before she actually falls to sleep. What can I do to address this issue?

I am a childcare provider and in my daycare i try to have quiet time from 12:30/1pm till 2:30/3pm. I do not let the children nap after 3pm simply because if the parents cant get them to sleep at home because i allowed them to sleep to late into the afternoon then guess who would have to deal with the child being cranky the next morning?
What does your provider have in her policy book about nap time? Does she state the hours? I would check that out first then simply let her know that although you understand the policy on the children having quiet time and have no issue with it you do have a problem with the amount of time she's sleeping and how long in the afternoon she's allowed to stay asleep, ask if the provider can make sure that she doesnt sleep past a certain time and explain to her that you do put your child to bed at a decent time (8pm) and the long late naps are making her bedtime difficult. Good Luck

[laundryduchess@yahoo.com]

thats great Amanda! I think alot of times ,.. they are alot more mature than any of us realize. ((())) good thoughts for you today.

[Chickenhauler]

Thanks for all the comments. Just another bit of info here. She has been sleeping in her parents bed since birth and just about a month ago, they tried to get her in her own room. Needless to say, the child told me on Monday, that her mom just moved her bed into her parents room.

WOW. This kids 4 years old?

Obviously the father must have a girlfriend....I don't know of any man who would allow this to go on for 4 years (kid sleeping in the bed, no "marital time" available).


We have to keep in mind that not all kids are the same-my son was one of those kids who no longer "needed" a nap by the time he was 3....if he got a nap for two hours, he would not fall asleep at a decent hour. He just turned 5, and is up with the sun, going full steam ahead all day, and he's still not out of gas by 10 many nights. And I'm talking being outdoors ALL DAY LONG, not just sitting and vegging out.

He'll go to bed (sometimes under protest), but he's not tired.

I was the same way, and so are my nephews.....I think we're "cursed" with that gene that lets us get by on less sleep than average.

[AmandasFCC]

chickenhauler - that's true, I also was one of those kids who didn't need a nap. I was very active, and yet even when I was a baby there was no nap time for me. BUT I was very respectful and when I was told to lie down for naptime, I laid down, closed my eyes and tried REALLY hard to sleep. When I couldn't sleep, I continued to lay down without moving, pretending to sleep so I wouldn't get in trouble at daycare lol. Personally, I don't mind having a kid stay up if he can't sleep. The one I was just complaining about who decided he wanted to start screaming at nap time has been just fine lately. He lays down with the other kids, gives me about 10 minutes of "me" time before I grab him and we go and do a craft or something. He's really quiet, actually whispers for the duration of our craft time, and we have a great time together. When we're done doing our craft, then he goes to the living room and plays quietly while I clean up and do MY chores. If the kids are disruptive and inconsiderate, though, obviously this won't work...

[Unregistered]

What if the 4-year-old won't go to sleep until after 11:00, even if he's in bed by 8:30 - 9pm?

We start our bedtime routine between 8 and 8:30 so that bath, teeth, jammies, stories and all are complete and lights are out before 9:00. By 11:00 last night, he was in bed, but still wide awake. This is pretty much how it goes every day....until weekends when we tend to skip naptime. Then he's out by 9:30.

[a concerned mom]

I have a 4 year old who has to lay on a mat for 1 and a half hours at her preschool/day care center. She can't get her little body to rest/sleep. The teachers reward the resting sleeping children with stickers. So every day my daughter comes home crying thinking she did something wrong because she gets no reward. Every child is different. To force a 4 year old to lay on a mat for that long doing nothing is bizarre to me. Could someone please post the Maryland state regulation that says child care workers must force a child to lay on a mat for 2 hours.

I think I read that regulation at one point and it states that a child care center must offer a nap area and a rest period but it is up to the child if he/she wants to nap or rest. I understand the need for quiet time but please this is crazy the way you think you can force children to sleep or sit still on a mat when their bodies are not able to do so.
Stop and really think about the power struggle you are creating. The feeling of shame you are creating in these children when you are telling them to do this and if they don't something is wrong with them.
You are interrupting the regulation all wrong. This regulation was to support and understand the needs of the child not to give the care giver a break.

Read and reread the regulation with each individual child in mind. Then please, please listen to the parents who knows more about their own child then the person in government that wrote a regulation that is being misused.

[My4SunshineGirlsNY]

When my 3rd girl was 4, if she napped during the day she couldn't fall asleep at our normal 8-8:30p.m. bedtime...we have a routine every night and no TV in bedrooms.

I am a provider now and I understand the need for a break, but I wouldn't be rude to a 4 year old and make them do nothing for 2 hours if they were not tired. I don't have a 4 year old in care, but if I did and he/she was not tired, I would have them understand it's quiet time and do something quiet like look at books or play with playdough.

[Unregistered]

Letting children have quiet time is cool, until the little angel decides quiet time is for the birds and hey, if their awake, everyone else needs to be awake also.

So what exactly should be done with the children who don't "need" naps, but insist their playmates don't need their naps either?

[Cantan]

Ah todays parents!!!

" If he/she naps to much, he/she will not sleep enough tonight"....so not true.

Actually there's some studies on this and they're conclusive: napping is very important for children and do not affect sleeping at night. What affects sleeping at night is more within the family's routine in the evening and weekends.

This is becoming more and more a problem for centers and family day cares.

At our center, we pretty strict with the 2h window and we mention it at registration.

[GretasLittleFriends]

Letting children have quiet time is cool, until the little angel decides quiet time is for the birds and hey, if their awake, everyone else needs to be awake also.

So what exactly should be done with the children who don't "need" naps, but insist their playmates don't need their naps either?

If I had a child like that I would explain to that child, "since you're growing up, you get to stay awake while the little kids take a nap. This is a privilege for you. I know you want to play with your friends, they are busy right now. If you're naughty and wake them up, you will have to lay down and take a nap."

I would also make sure I had plenty of quiet activities for them. Perhaps even once a week letting them play a computer game for 1/2 hour (with headphones on). I've got some great jump-start (educational) games for my own son. So maybe if (s)he's good all week, Friday is his/her special day?

[sarahtheresa02]

It's not about "forcing" a child to sit on a mat for 2 hours. It's called "rest time". If they fall asleep thats even better, but they must do something quiet so the rest of the kids can sleep whether its reading a book or coloring. Most of the kids I have are under 3 and look forward to nap time. A few days a week I have a kindergartener who is here during nap time. She is allowed to sit on the couch and pick a movie to watch. She is quiet for the entire movie. About 2 hours. After that she can color.

Our state requires a minimum 2 hour "rest time" for all daycare centers/facilities. The bedtime of a child is what the parent sets when they are at home. My kids start their bedtime ritual during the week at 8:00. They are in bed by 8:45. They dont fall asleep right away and usually until 9:30 or so I can still here them rustling around and talking to each other. But its the parents decision as to when they put their kids IN THEIR BEDS.

One more thing... about late naps. I have 2 kids who are 13 mo and 16 mo. They get here before 7:30 and they go back to sleep for about an hour or so. They nap from 12:00 to 2:00-2:30. Sometimes, NOT all the time, they are also in need of an afternoon nap between 4:00-5:00. It's not an everyday thing but sometimes babies need more sleep time. I dont wake them until pick up time unless they wake before that themselves. At that age parents are happy that they napped as much as they wanted because that makes them happier kids when they get home. The parents I have put their kids to bed between 8:00-9:00 every night.

Enough of my rant but I think its every providers call during the day and the parents responsibility at night. I am not going to allow a child to suffer from exhaustion because the parents dont want them to sleep. Not my problem.

[Guest]

I completely understand the need for quiet time at daycare, however, I am in the same boat with a lot of these parents - if my 4 year old son naps at school, he doesn't fall asleep at home until 10:30-11. He only goes to preschool 2 (full) days a week - per Ohio law, the child must have the "rest period" not because the state mandates SLEEPING, but rather it is the teacher to child ratio that drives the centers policy. At 4 years of age, the ratio of teacher to child goes up to like 1:12 kids. When the kids are "resting" (on their cot) the ratio doubles to 1:24. And this is when the teachers take their breaks - each one takes 1 hour. If a child gets up from their cot during this time, they are immediately out of compliance with the state law.

My son does not nap 5 days out of the week, and only goes to sleep at preschool. He has a good routine, up at 7 am, busy all day, and bed at 8-8:30. No TV in his room or other distractions, has never slept in our bed, does not have any sugary stuff from dinner to bedtime. On the 5 days he doesn't nap...he is great, in bed and passed out within 15 minutes. On the two school days, he struggles and yells for us, for 2-3 hours because he is bored or not tired, or needs more books or whatever the excuse. I don't believe it is our fault he can't fall asleep or that we have a poor routine for bed time. It is pretty clear to me, the day care nap throws him off his natural bodily "routine."

I have read the posts, and I have done my homework with how sleep affects kids. And its true, when they are littler, the more sleep, the better. But I do feel the daycare is not really trying to work with us. I have asked that he be taken to another room when the other kids lay down, but they just stare at me blankly. Or how about bringing in someone else so if a child does want to get up, they are not out of compliance? Or how about working with another classroom and designate one room for the "napping" kids, and the other room for the kids who don't nap.

I am not blaming the teachers and I don't think the child providers should always blame the parents. I can't be the only parent who is having these issues at this day care!

[Janet]

There are lots of kids for us to consider. I realize that it's a huge pain for the non-napper and the non-napper's parents but consider this: the non-napper shouldn't be allowed to wake up the rest of the kids just because he/she isn't tired and is rady to play. I am a home daycare provider so I don't have another teacher to send mine to if they decide that they don't feel like napping. I have to think of eveyone's well-being. I don't force naps but I do enforce quiet time. It's just not an option. If a kid doesn't fall asleep, that's fine, they just to have to be be quiet (no toys!!!) but if they do fall asleep, then I let them sleep. Their little bodies aren't meant to be forced awake anymore than they should be forced to sleep. Also, home daycare providers wouldn't get a break at all if it weren't for nap time. We don't have anyone to cover our breaks and if no one napped, then that would be absolutely no break at all for us.

[AmandasFCC]

Exactly. Home daycares are at a particular disadvantage to parents who don't want their kids to nap. My rule is, you HAVE to lay down. You don't have to sleep, but if you do, I'm not going to wake you. If a child falls asleep as soon as they lay down, guess what, they NEED that sleep, as much as the parents want to say they don't. I have no problem waking them up after an hour or so, but if they wake up miserable, then who is that really serving? Not me, and certainly not the child. If a child doesn't fall asleep, then they rest for a while, and if they are capable of playing quietly, they are permitted to do so after they rest for at least half an hour. If they're too noisy though, back to the cot they go. Period.

[laundryduchess@yahoo.com]

My contract that the parent agrees simply states the following.

ALL children in care take a nap each day. Please do not let them ‘sleep in’ if they were up late the night before daycare. I promise to make sure they get their rest.

[Unregistered]

Is it a law (in NYS atleast ) that children in day care need to nap or is it the decision of the provider?

[Unregistered]

I am a parent of a 4 year old and to be honest, I am appalled at the comments made by some daycare providers on this message board. Wow. Ms. Sue: "It's not the child with the issue- it's the parents - as usual". How presumptuous and wrong you are. I am a teacher, and we are taught that the parents are the first and most important "teachers" of their children.

My son, even though he does not need a nap would always nap given the opportunity-- placed in a quiet dark room...of course he would. So would I. And this was the case at his in-home daycare. I spoke with the provider, whom he loved, and she was as stubborn as you all, and said all kids must rest for those two hours. Since he was the oldest child at daycare, she was UNWILLING to make an exception for him. And since he regularly fell asleep, she did not listen to me, and ASSUMED that I was WRONG and she was RIGHT.

When he was at home, he never napped and was fine. He would go to bed at a reasonable hour (8:00) and wake up around 7:00. When he would go to daycare and had a nap, he consistently said "I'm not tired! I'm not tired!" at night and would be up until 10:30. This was not due to my LACK of parenting skills or ability. He was TRULY not tired.

Turns out, I pulled him from his daycare which he loved for this VERY reason. He is now at Montessori preschool and flourishing. They do not require a nap and he is doing lovely, on a regular schedule and learning/playing for two extra hours instead of being forced to nap. I am so happy I made this decision.

Parents know best. And if you are unwilling to meet a reasonable request in the best interest of the child then you shouldn't be practicing daycare.

[Unregistered]

I am very surprised to hear daycare providers speak this way in a public forum.

I am the parent of a 3 1/2 yr old who does not need a nap. On weekends, she is quite happy and content, goes to bed at 8-8:30pm tops, getting up at the same time as we would on weekdays when we go to daycare, 7:30am ish.

Yet on weeknights, I cannot get her to sleep. This is not a question of discipline, as I have no issue on the weekends when she does not take a nap. The only difference is the daycare nap of approx 2 hours. She usually falls asleep around 10:30 - 11pm. Almost exactly 2 hours later...see the link!

I find your comments on parents to be generalizations that are not helpful to parents and children. Some children may need a nap while others do not...you shoudl be able to adapt your practices to these facts.

[momofboys]

I have a 4 year old in my care pt & also a 3 year old. The 4 year old naps 1.5-2 hrs a day & the 3 year old naps maybe 1-2 x a week. I don't force her to take a nap but parents encourage it. We just do quiet time for an hour. I think if the child doesn't need to nap that is fine but the provider does need at least a 30 min "break" to go to the bathroom & sit & eat. I don't see a problem with rest time per se or doing quiet activities so long as the child doesn't disrupt sleeping children. I literally do not sit down for more than 5 min when I have kids in my care so I truly need some quiet time.

[Unregistered]

I am a parent of a 4 year old and to be honest, I am appalled at the comments made by some daycare providers on this message board. Wow. Ms. Sue: "It's not the child with the issue- it's the parents - as usual". How presumptuous and wrong you are. I am a teacher, and we are taught that the parents are the first and most important "teachers" of their children.

My son, even though he does not need a nap would always nap given the opportunity-- placed in a quiet dark room...of course he would. So would I. And this was the case at his in-home daycare. I spoke with the provider, whom he loved, and she was as stubborn as you all, and said all kids must rest for those two hours. Since he was the oldest child at daycare, she was UNWILLING to make an exception for him. And since he regularly fell asleep, she did not listen to me, and ASSUMED that I was WRONG and she was RIGHT.

When he was at home, he never napped and was fine. He would go to bed at a reasonable hour (8:00) and wake up around 7:00. When he would go to daycare and had a nap, he consistently said "I'm not tired! I'm not tired!" at night and would be up until 10:30. This was not due to my LACK of parenting skills or ability. He was TRULY not tired.

Turns out, I pulled him from his daycare which he loved for this VERY reason. He is now at Montessori preschool and flourishing. They do not require a nap and he is doing lovely, on a regular schedule and learning/playing for two extra hours instead of being forced to nap. I am so happy I made this decision.

Parents know best. And if you are unwilling to meet a reasonable request in the best interest of the child then you shouldn't be practicing daycare.

Thank you for this post. I too have a 4 year old at daycare. We too are having the same issues. I am appalled as well. It is hard enough leaving your children and now after reading all the comments of daycare providers it makes it even harder...thanks.

[melissa ann]

I don't require the kids to sleep. But they all must lay down and rest. I close the blinds and put on a celine dion lullaby cd. I have kids from 11 months-5 yrs. My daughter being the oldest. She knows that after lunch everyone goes in the room to lay down. If she is still awake after I'm done eating, washing dishes and cleaning up, which can take from 30-45 mins than I let her get up and she usually does her leapster in the kitchen. The 4 yr old dcb normally naps as well. If he is still up when I'm done with my work, I let him get up and he colors or does a puzzle. BUT, by 3pm or so, he gets real nasty because then he is tired.

[Unregistered]

If your child no longer needs a nap, pull them from the home daycare and wrestle it out with a center that is probably going to tell you your child needs to lay down for a certain amount of time.
Not every environment is right for every child. We do a ton of arts and crafts in my home. A couple of projects every day. It's what I do. I would not make and exception for a child that was into sports or basketball or soccer or whatever to go outside and play their choice of sports while the rest of us did the art activities. If that child or their parents were so opposed to doing what I had scheduled, and they knew that was the type of program I ran, then they need to find care elsewhere.
Nap time is a scheduled daily activity and it is usually written about in every home providers policy so the parents should know about it in advance. If they do not want their child participating in any of the scheduled daily activities then the child should not be in that program. The provider should not be and is not obligated to "make exceptions" for anyone.
Kid age out of programs all the time. To the woman who left and put her kid in a Montessori program - you probably did your provider a favor and saved her the time and energy of finding an excuse to terminate you. Home providers don't really have the luxury of worrying about the best interests of a particular child, it's the best interest of all of the children. If your kid is the square peg and going to screw up the nap routine of all of the rest of the kids, YOUR kid needs to go somewhere else. Not really an issue.

[Daycare Mommy]

I have to agree with the kids need naps crew... and not just because I need a break, but because the kids do. If a child falls asleep, they're tired. Yes as adults you can put us in a dark room we'll fall asleep, because most of us don't get enough sleep for how hard we work, and quite possibly in a perfect world should get a nap. LOL But since that's not going to happen at least the little guys should get to rest when they need it. With mine I didn't realize for a long time that I was missing the window of time when they would be able to go to sleep. I was putting them down to sleep at 8:30-9 and they pushed their bedtimes to 10 or 11 acting completely wired the whole time. We made bedtime 7pm, made the routine set in stone, use white noise, and bedtime is now not a big hassle. It is bedtime period. A helpful book for us was The No-Cry Sleep Solution For Toddlers & Preschoolers by Elizabeth Pantley. Tons of good suggestions for setting up a good routine, environment, and diet that will set children up to be able to fall asleep at bedtime.

[Former Teacher]

At my former center yes there was a mandatory naptime. No child is forced to sleep but they must be on their mat and lay quietly. If they fall asleep great. If not, then depending on the child we would give them books or puzzles etc.

State requires that should a child not be asleep within 30 mins they must be allowed to get up and walk around. We never allowed that since they would wake up their friends and all heck is broken loose.

State law also states that naptime is no longer than 3 hours. Our nap was from 1230-230 so only 2 hours. Every child was required to get up regardless of what time they went down. The only exception we made was when we had a field trip and if we got back late then the kids would sleep until 3:00. However no longer than that.

Sometimes parents would say they didn't want their kids sleeping or they would ask us to wake them up earlier. Depending on the child we would do it or not. One little boy (3) was there at 6:30 a.m. but wouldn't get picked up until after 6 or later and the parents didnt want him to nap because he didnt sleep well at night. I refused. I said this child is here ALL day (mom was at school, dad at home, yeah I know!) and I wasnt going to make the day miserable for everyone just so he can go to bed at 7 for them. Well, I didn't say it like that but you know what I mean! :)

I think that if you just let the children all have a rest period and tell the kids that they dont have to sleep but they do need to rest, things will eventually work out IMO

[Unregistered]

Why would a home daycare provider need a "Break" during the day to get their "own" chores done? I am at work all day a do get to get my "own" chores done on my break.

[MN Mom]

Because our homes are our places of business. Every business has "housekeeping" that needs to be done. Some companies hire this out to be done at night after close, some make employees do the task during working hours.

With children in the house dishes get dirtied, the trash gets full, toys get strewn about, housekeeping stuff needs to happen throughout the day..period.

You can also not expect a person who works 12+ hours a day to not have a break. Do you get a break + lunch break during your job?

[misol]

Why would a home daycare provider need a "Break" during the day to get their "own" chores done? I am at work all day a do get to get my "own" chores done on my break.

For the exact same reason that everyone else needs a break when they are at work - duh!

Under normal working conditions, it is required by law that employers give hourly employees a break after working a certain amount of hours a day. Employees tyically spend this "break" eating lunch, running personal errands, or doing another personal activity of their choice. Why would you think that a home daycare provider would not be entitled to the same "break" that people who work outside the home are entitled to? And just to enlighten you, most of our "own" chores are actually a direct result of having YOUR children in our home. We do laundry which includes linens and clothing that YOUR children have soiled, we do dishes that YOUR children have dirtied, we sweep and mop floors that YOUR child have dumped their lunch all over, and sometimes we start preparing dinner in the afternoon which quite often will also be lunch for YOUR children the next day. So, if it makes you feel any better, we are actually still working through our "break".

[momma2girls]

Why would a home daycare provider need a "Break" during the day to get their "own" chores done? I am at work all day a do get to get my "own" chores done on my break.

WOW!!! I can't believe this! We are cleaning up after the daycare children- sweeping, doing dishes, cleaning off tables, highchairs, putting away toys, washing bibs, blankets, sometimes clothes, towels, washclothes, getting afternoon activity together, running copies, the list goes on and on with everything!!!!

[Unregistered]

Reading these posts especially misol just re-affims that fact that I made a great decision not sending my child to a home based daycare. My child is in a school setting and thank goodness. If you are so concerned with OUR children making messes then you shouldn't be running a business out of YOUR home. Also...the parents are paying your salary...why do you have to be so harsh and blame them for every single issue? All I have to say is, "wow!".

[MarinaVanessa]

The answer is easy in this case. Home and center based childcare providers get to make their rules as they with as long as they follow state guidelines. It is up to the parent's to read the policies and make sure that they feel comfortable with these and if they aren't then they can simply look around and find one that fits their needs. Even some center-based childcare's have a two-hour nap/quiet time policy so it's not a matter of home-based or center-based daycare's. And then there's the fact that even when you find that perfect center the child may not fit perfectly with the staff or home-provider. Parent's should do what they feel is best for their children and if it isn't a good fit then pulling them out is the best thing to do.

[grandmom]

Perhaps a suggestion would be for parents to spend a day with their provider so that they see the work that is done. So many parents think we sit and watch children (or tv) and don't really understand how much pressure and stres there is. That is not to negate the work parents must do at their job.

In the past I've had 2 parents work with me for the whole day. I asked them to work the 12 hours I work, not the 8 they would work in their job. They were my best supporters after that.

Walk a mile in my shoes. Change 24 diapers, fix 48 meals/snacks in a day. And so many things the state requires us to do on a daily basis. I need the break. Quiet time is required here. If you don't want a quite time, there are providers that specialize in older children who don't need the nap.

[momma2girls]

have you just simply told him, when you yell at nap you will get no craft time. Period. Hes 4, not a baby. He seems smart. Be straight with him. when he arrives say Little Billy, if you scream at my home you will have to lose an activity. If your quiet, you get the activity.

Make it story time or playdough time or whatever,... something that happens BEFORE nap remind him the first day during the activity that if he screams he will not do the activity the next day. If he does scream,.... the next day say,.. Billy, you dont get to play (the activity) today because of your behavior yesterday. Im sorry but you chose to throw a fit, you need to go sit while we do the activity. Then when you lay them down say ,.. Billy,.. if you scream today you will not do the activity tomorrow. It will be fresh in his mind that he missed out because of his behavior. I bet it will take one day,.. possibly two to fix this issue. If it doesnt work the first day pick something really fun to exclude him from. And if anyone wants to flame me go ahead. Thats how it works here,.. You behave and get fun things,.. You misbehave and you dont. Amazingly,.. the kids behave,.. listen and after a time or two missing a fun thing,.. they magically "get it". My opinion,.. you dont give a tantrum a reward. and any attention is attention even if its to say,.. hush, be quiet,.. stop yelling,.. Bad behavior is ignored,..Ignored behavior is not being re-enforced. the bad behavior that gets no attention is no longer getting them attention so its not worth the effort. They see that good behavior is rewarded with fun things,... the world keeps spinning and everyone is friends.

What I do I turn the tv on to a nick jr, PBS, or a movie to unwind everyone who is older and can nap on their mats and blankets for 1/2 an hr. everyday. THis unwinds the children and I shut it off after that, then it is naptime! They all get used to this and unwind and fall asleep after they each go to the bathroom and I shut tv off. It works well.

[misol]

Reading these posts especially misol just re-affims that fact that I made a great decision not sending my child to a home based daycare. My child is in a school setting and thank goodness. If you are so concerned with OUR children making messes then you shouldn't be running a business out of YOUR home. Also...the parents are paying your salary...why do you have to be so harsh and blame them for every single issue? All I have to say is, "wow!".

Nowhere did I blame a parent for any issue.

I am not so concerned with children making a mess in my house - that is expected and comes with this line of work. What I am concerned with is people who think that they should get a lunch break while they are on their job but that I shouldn't get a break while I am on mine. I am sure that all the teachers at your child's school take breaks. And I am certain that they clean up during business hours too. So I'm not sure what you meant when you said I reaffirmed your decision to choose a center over a home daycare.

I re-read my post and becasue of the caps I may have sounded a bit harsh. I was merely trying to point out that we are not at home doing our own personal chores all day. This business REQUIRES upkeep of the home. So when we are cleaning, doing dishes, sweeping, etc. while on our "break", we are in fact, doing our jobs. My nap/rest period is for 2 hours but between the late drifters and the early risers, I am lucky to get half an hour of uninterrupted time each 11-hour day. The children still have to be monitored even while they are sleeping. So, unless a provider is fortunate enough to have an assistant, there is really no "break" until the last child leaves for the day.

I think that grandmom has the best suggestion.

[MarinaVanessa]

Reading these posts especially misol just re-affims that fact that I made a great decision not sending my child to a home based daycare. My child is in a school setting and thank goodness. If you are so concerned with OUR children making messes then you shouldn't be running a business out of YOUR home. Also...the parents are paying your salary...why do you have to be so harsh and blame them for every single issue? All I have to say is, "wow!".

I also didn't remember any comments made about how she is concerened with children making messes. A went back and re-read them and all I saw was a provider talking about tasks that needed to be done.

Reading these posts especially misol just re-affims that fact that I made a great decision not sending my child to a home based daycare..
This comment right here is like saying that all home provider's follow the same policy which is just like saying that all parent's are the cause of their children's issues which seems to me that is what sparked a debate. I know that we don't all have the same nap policy. I have nap/quiet time. Notice that there is a slash between nap & quiet which I have also noticed in some of the comments above. Everyone in my care is required to participate in either nap or quiet time but I never force the children to sleep. If they can keep quiet they can still do activities such as reading in the book nook, coloring, drawing etc. If they make too much noise then they need to lay down quetly with a book. I do not force them to sleep just like I don't force them to stay awake. We do a lot of physical activites here and if a child wants to nap and happens to fall asleep during this time then I will not stop him/her even at a parent's request. I explain this to all of my families from the beginning so that they are aware because the way I see it is if the child falls asleep then they are tired. If a child sleeps for two-hours then I will coax them into getting up but usually this is not a problem because after about an hour I will start an activity with the children (still quiet) that are awake and this usually wakes the rest of them. I don't believe that forcing a child to participate in any activity is helpful including keeping a child awake.

Also, I require all children to at least stay quiet during this time as a common courtesy to the rest of the kids who do want to nap. Letting one child disturb the rest of the children is unfair not only to the provider but to the other children as well. In my home-based daycare I teach common courtesy, manners, and mutual respect for everybody which I believe is very lacking in our youngsters today. This time is a great opportunity for children to learn that they need to be aware of those around them.

[Chickenhauler]

For the exact same reason that everyone else needs a break when they are at work - duh!

Under normal working conditions, it is required by law that employers give hourly employees a break after working a certain amount of hours a day. Employees tyically spend this "break" eating lunch, running personal errands, or doing another personal activity of their choice. Why would you think that a home daycare provider would not be entitled to the same "break" that people who work outside the home are entitled to? And just to enlighten you, most of our "own" chores are actually a direct result of having YOUR children in our home. We do laundry which includes linens and clothing that YOUR children have soiled, we do dishes that YOUR children have dirtied, we sweep and mop floors that YOUR child have dumped their lunch all over, and sometimes we start preparing dinner in the afternoon which quite often will also be lunch for YOUR children the next day. So, if it makes you feel any better, we are actually still working through our "break".

Welcome to being self employed.

If you think you have it tough doing daycare, come with me for a week.

70+ hours in 6 days, all kinds of climates and weather, and on the 7th day, I don't get to rest, I do maintenance and repairs (and deal with daycare kids)

But, it's what I do for a living. We all do stuff that is dirty, unglamorous and challenging.

[Janet]

As far as the sleeping goes, I take the approach that even the kids don't sleep, they still need to have a rest time. Also, I don't wake kids up, their bodies will let them know how long that they need to sleep.

For the people who are giving the home providers a tough time for needing the time to have a break of their own during nap and for using the time to clean up, until you have personally provided care for children that are not yours, save your judgements. We have to have the time to clean up from meals, snacks and to sanitize toys between uses and nap time is an excellent time to do these things. We don't have the luxury of waiting until all of the kids are gone before cleaning our homes. Think about how gross that would be if sweeping didn't get done after meals, or the dishes just piled up all day long. Think about if the provider didn't sanitize the toys often throughout the day. If you picked up your child from a daycare home that was a pigsty, it wouldn't instill much confidence in the provider, would it? We have to have the down time to get some of these things done because when our kids wake up, we want to give them all of our attention, so naptime makes sense to get things done.

[Amadia]

Reading threads like this one make me so thankful for the amazing families I have in my daycare. People who respect the amount of time, effort, energy, money and love I invest in their children. I spend my day teaching preschool, doing crafts, going on field trips, playing outside and doing many other activites; nap time is the only time I have to do dishes, pickup toys, sweep and all the other things that keep my home up to the standards that I as a parent would expect from my daycare. This isn't the type of break that parents get, I'm still working! But I love it and it is so worth all the time.

As for my children who don't want to take naps...my policy is it's quiet time so that means they need to be quiet. They have to stay on their mat but I give them books, puzzles, and sticker books to look at/play with. But if a child lays on their sleeping mat and falls asleep while looking at a book I definetly would not wake them up b/c a parent doesn't want them to nap. Napping is important at that age. And since I dont have a television there would be no other quiet activity I could offer them.

[FrustratedMommy]

I have a three year old girl who is also resisting nap, but mainly at daycare. At home she has her own room. We put her to bed at the same time as the daycare to try and accomodate her routine. Mostly my DD will nap at home, sometimes she plays quietly in her bed, sometimes she makes noise and I have to go and tell her to go to sleep. The rule of thumb is, if I don't hear her, I assume she is sleeping.

She always goes to bed with very little complaints at 8:00pm. Since we have been having napping issues, we have been keeping her up until 8:30pm to try and help the daycare lady.

At daycare she has been refusing to lay down with the other kids, and is being defient about it to the daycare lady.

I have asked the daycare lady if she has tried giving her a book, her letting her come down and watch TV on the couch. The daycare lady's response to the book was she "rustles" and wakes the other kid. When I suggested the TV she said, "She sits for 10 min and then begins to run." I tried giving her a backpack of quiet toys from home, that I know she sits quietly and plays with. She put her in the snack room where there is just one other baby in a playpen. She apparently threw her books around and made a lot of noise to attempt to wake up the other baby.

I have tried writing her a special story, where she is the main character about a girl who doesn't like naps but falls alseep and has an adventure, so I tell her to close her eyes and think about going on an adventure.

I have tried giving her chocolate (which we hate doing) when she sleeps. Now if she doesn't nap at daycare, I take her home and give her a nap at home rather than taking her to the park like I usually do. The first time I did that it worked for a week, but then yesterday she refused to nap again.

I know the daycare lady prefers babies to toddlers, and she told us in the interview that she usually doesn't take toddlers but since she had my 18month old she would keep my 3 year old. My three year old has been the oldest since she started there. The second oldest turned three and was kicked out shortly thereafter for being agressive. She raves about how much she loves my 18 month old but complains every day about my three year old. She doesn't eat, she doesn't sleep.

Honestly, with regards to the eating, if she doesn't eat, put the food in front of her, if she doesn't eat, take it away. What is the big deal. She is not starving. I never have these problems at home.

I think I am doing everything in my power to help the daycare lady, but I am so tired of hearing her complain every day about my daughter. My three year old behaves quite well at home. She sleeps, she eats with minimal complaining, she likes to help. Even at daycare she never hits other kids, she shares.

Is it normal for the daycare provider to complain so much, and seem not to come up with any ideas herself to fix the problem? I feel like as soon as there is a problem, the daycare lady wants me to fix it. Isn't it part of your job to maintain disicpline in your daycare? There is only so much I can do as I am not there. It doesn't really work to discipline a child after the fact.

Does anybody else have any other ideas for getting a child to lay down? I am scared the daycare lady is going to kick her out.

I live in Quebec and the daycare is subsidized, so we pay it in our Tahsis; however, finding a spot here is nearly impossible. This daycare is at least very kind. I had one who was very cold and complained that my daughter had diahrea all the time. She serverd my daughter pizza and chicken nuggets all the time. As soon as we switched and she had real food, the diahrea stopped.

Basically, the subsidized daycare situation makes it a sellers market. They have 20 kids lined up for your spot so they don't really have to put in any effort. If they don't like the kid, they just kick them out and take another one. Then you end up paying $25 a day on top of paying the taxes.

[judytrickett]

I have a motto and I really mean it:

If your child has outgrown their nap they have outgrown my daycare.

ALL children nap here or they are no longer in care. Period.

[Vesta]

Frustrated Mom
I would start looking for a new daycare ASAP.
Nap is considered by *most* (not all, I know you're out there) providers as an essential part of the day to recharge out batteries and get things ready for the afternoon.
That doesn't happen when you are trying to keep a 3 year old from waking up the other kids. If she was being quiet it might not be an issue, but it sounds like she may be trying to keep things lively.
I've been in this situation before and it made me miserable.
11 hours and no break, the worst 2 hours of my day were the two hours I spent trying to keep a 3.5 year old from waking everyone else up. It didn't last too long, because I had to ask the family to find care elsewhere.
It really sounds like your daughter is engaging in a bit of a power struggle with your provider and I would guess it's not working out well for either of them.

[FrustratedMommy]

Wow, it sounds like being a childcare provider is the only profession in which you can bail out as soon as a challenge presents itself. I am a computer programmer and if I quit and changed jobs every time I had to track down a difficult bug or deal with an issue I had never experienced before I would not only never find another contract, but I would also never learn anything. Meeting challenges is what makes me a better programmer. Likewise for your profession. When you have a power struggle with a child, you need to learn to diffuse the situation.

My daycare provider has a parent who is bending over backwards to back her up, or provide her with ideas to deal with the situation. When we actually solve this problem, she will become a better daycare provider since she will have learned new methods and techniques to deal with any other children that come along and I will become a better parent since I will learn new ways of working with my child. Dealing with children is a learning experience.

Finding another daycare in Aylmer is not so easy, especially if I want both my kids at the same daycare. My 18 month old will be challening to place because nobody wants babies. I moved my three year old from her old daycare to here because that woman didn't like babies.

This one loves babies, hates toddlers. My little one cries before nap and only sleeps for an hour but she doesn't complain about that since she just puts her in a playpen in another room. She can't do that with my three old so she gets in trouble.

When she is home, if I need to cook or do dishes or chores, my three year old will just follow me around and 'help' or stay out of the way. As long as I chat with her she lets me get my work done. I don't understand how at daycare she can be such a troublemaker. It is like she is watching a completely different child. My 18 month old on the other hand has temper tantrum after temper tantrum and the daycare provider raves about her.

I suspect, she just doesn't like toddlers so she is just going to complain about her until I move her so she won't have to look after her anymore. She just doesn't want to bother to work with her.

[Vesta]

Yes, of course, you're right. She just does not want to work with your daughter. That's why she's a home provider. She was looking for an easy job where she gets to call all of the shots while parents are blackmailed into paying her loads of money to entertain their children for a couple of hours each day.
She obviously has no idea how to work with or care for children and you should be looking for care elsewhere.
Maybe you could print out a copy of your post and give it to her to help her understand what you are expecting. Even better, take some copies with you when you are on your search for a new provider. I'm sure they will be delighted to read it.

[mac60]

I took Vesta's post as being serious. I am sorry, so I deleted my original post to it.

[nannyde]

Wow, it sounds like being a childcare provider is the only profession in which you can bail out as soon as a challenge presents itself. I am a computer programmer and if I quit and changed jobs every time I had to track down a difficult bug or deal with an issue I had never experienced before I would not only never find another contract, but I would also never learn anything. Meeting challenges is what makes me a better programmer. Likewise for your profession. When you have a power struggle with a child, you need to learn to diffuse the situation.

My daycare provider has a parent who is bending over backwards to back her up, or provide her with ideas to deal with the situation. When we actually solve this problem, she will become a better daycare provider since she will have learned new methods and techniques to deal with any other children that come along and I will become a better parent since I will learn new ways of working with my child. Dealing with children is a learning experience.

Finding another daycare in Aylmer is not so easy, especially if I want both my kids at the same daycare. My 18 month old will be challening to place because nobody wants babies. I moved my three year old from her old daycare to here because that woman didn't like babies.

This one loves babies, hates toddlers. My little one cries before nap and only sleeps for an hour but she doesn't complain about that since she just puts her in a playpen in another room. She can't do that with my three old so she gets in trouble.

When she is home, if I need to cook or do dishes or chores, my three year old will just follow me around and 'help' or stay out of the way. As long as I chat with her she lets me get my work done. I don't understand how at daycare she can be such a troublemaker. It is like she is watching a completely different child. My 18 month old on the other hand has temper tantrum after temper tantrum and the daycare provider raves about her.

I suspect, she just doesn't like toddlers so she is just going to complain about her until I move her so she won't have to look after her anymore. She just doesn't want to bother to work with her.

Ow wow

Okay... I don't provide services to kids who don't need a full afternoon nap. It's not discriminatory. I just don't offer that service. It's in my policies and the parents know it from the first meeting. If at ANY time their child does not need a FULL afternoon nap then my services will not meet their needs. I'm all about what the kid needs. I'm all about the parents choosing what the kid needs. I believe there are oodles and zillions of birth to five kids who don't need an afternoon nap. Your child seems to be one of them. I just don't offer THAT service HERE.

I don't need techniques or a learning experience to manage your kid during nap. It's really very simple. Either you are having the kid up and active or you are not. There's nothing to learn about. There's nothing special about the request. There's nothing unusual to find kids who don't want or need a nap and parents who agree. It's VERY common. The provider doesn't need an education or strategies. She just needs to make a decision as to whether or not she provides direct care to up and awake children during her nap time. If she does not offer that than it's time to move on.

You would think by your post that's there is some kind of rocket science to this. It's SO simple. There's no "ideas" to deal with the sitatuion. There's no need for a plan. There's no "follow me around and as long as I engage you you will LET me work"????????

Your child is not being a troublemaker. She just being UP. That's the problem. It's not a bump in the road where the provider needs to learn new strategies or methods. It's just a situation where your provider wants ALL the kids to rest QUIETLY while laying DOWN during nap and you and your kid don't want to do that. It's time to move on and find some day care that allows a three year old to be up. Good luck with that.

[FrustratedMommy]

Ufortunately, that would mean I would never find daycare. Here for each spot, there are 20 kids lined up for each spot. If your child has any challenges at all, they dump you and find another kid.

What I am hearing from this post is that all daycare providers are like this. None of them actually like children, or maybe they like children as long as they are complacent and easy to deal with.

The provider interviews the child and parent to see if they are easy and complacent to work with, if not, they go to the next in line. If you use cloth diapers, if your child hits, or doesn't want to nap, next in line please.

I also have two children, so maybe I could find a place that is absolutely perfect for my three year old, but would my 18 month old be happy there? Should I leave my 18 month old with this lady for another year until she gets to old for her, and just move my three year old? Then I would be picking them up at two different places, perhaps on opposite ends of the city, and I would have to move the baby eventually anyway since I am sure as soon as she turns 3 the daycare lady will decide she doesn't like her anymore.

What I am looking for, is advice from a daycare provider who perhaps encountered this situation and not run from it. What did you do to fix it? Perhaps there are some ideas I can pass on to my provider in the hopes that she will not kick my daughter out in favour of a complacent, easy child.

[judytrickett]

Ufortunately, that would mean I would never find daycare. Here for each spot, there are 20 kids lined up for each spot. If your child has any challenges at all, they dump you and find another kid.

What I am hearing from this post is that all daycare providers are like this. None of them actually like children, or maybe they like children as long as they are complacent and easy to deal with.

The provider interviews the child and parent to see if they are easy and complacent to work with, if not, they go to the next in line. If you use cloth diapers, if your child hits, or doesn't want to nap, next in line please.

I also have two children, so maybe I could find a place that is absolutely perfect for my three year old, but would my 18 month old be happy there? Should I leave my 18 month old with this lady for another year until she gets to old for her, and just move my three year old? Then I would be picking them up at two different places, perhaps on opposite ends of the city, and I would have to move the baby eventually anyway since I am sure as soon as she turns 3 the daycare lady will decide she doesn't like her anymore.

What I am looking for, is advice from a daycare provider who perhaps encountered this situation and not run from it. What did you do to fix it? Perhaps there are some ideas I can pass on to my provider in the hopes that she will not kick my daughter out in favour of a complacent, easy child.

So, let's say you are looking for a job:

Job A - NO break allowed, crappy co-workers that stress you out because they just won't work with the group. And a boss that constantly complains that even though you are working ALL day with no break and listening to your co-workes whine all day that you need to just suck it up.

Job B - Two 15 minute breaks and an hour long lunch. Co-workers that work WITH you and help to provide a fun, loving environment. Oh, and a boss that constantly tells you they are happy with what you are doing.

Hmmmm............let's see...what job would most people choose??

[judytrickett]

This accusation in my opinion, is very inapproprite. I hope you choose to go back and edit the accusations that you have made directed towards home daycare providers.

Couldn't agree more.

[FrustratedMommy]

That is true, and for not much pay either; however, for some reason people do choose this job. Nobody is saying it is easy.

Although, I don't know what you are talking about with an hour long lunch. Most jobs here are 7.5 hours work, with a half hour lunch or 8 hours with 1/2 lunch and two 15 min breaks. I don't know anybody who has an hour lunch.

Plus if you have ever worked in an office, you sit in a cube all day, half the time you are bored because they don't have any work for you, so you need to 'look' busy. You cannot do anything that even looks remotely like you are goofing off, such as reading, surfing the internet. They walk by and look at your screen. You need to have your compiler up at all times, be in your seat and find something to occupy your mind that is not noticeable. Or you are incredibly busy and working through lunch because you have a deadline to meet, and no, you don't get paid overtime for this. Programmers are generally control freaks, so they fight all the time, misunderstand each other and it is not a fun, loving environment, and the boss rarely tells you when you do good work, but certainly points out when you mess up. This is life. This is the job I chose. I come in every day and do my best.

Daycare providers choose their job too. There are pros and cons to every job and EVERY job is hard. Pick one and do your best at it. Try and work with your boss to make it a good environment. If you don't like your job, you always have the option of doing something else. Yes, I know it is challenging to change careers, that is one of the reasons I am still here. I don't want to take a paycut.

I am sure you get rewards too, like when your kids don't want to go home because daycare is so much fun, or when you were there when the baby walked for the first time and the parents were stuck in a cubicle. There must be a reason why you do this job, or else you wouldn't do it.

[Vesta]

This accusation in my opinion, is very inapproprite. I hope you choose to go back and edit the accusations that you have made directed towards home daycare providers.

Vesta, Question here......Are you serious in your post, or being sarcastic, someone pointed out I may have misunderstood your post, Obviously, I took it seriously. I apologize if I misunderstood it.

Goodness no I'm not being serious.
It's what the mom believes so why not just placate her and send her on her way.
Except for the part about showing providers her post. That would be great to let unsuspecting new providers know what they are in for.

[mac60]

Goodness no I'm not being serious.
It's what the mom believes so why not just placate her and send her on her way.
Except for the part about showing providers her post. That would be great to let unsuspecting new providers know what they are in for.

I am sorry I took it as serious. I went back and edited my own post on it.

[nannyde]

Ufortunately, that would mean I would never find daycare. Here for each spot, there are 20 kids lined up for each spot. If your child has any challenges at all, they dump you and find another kid.

What I am hearing from this post is that all daycare providers are like this. None of them actually like children, or maybe they like children as long as they are complacent and easy to deal with.

The provider interviews the child and parent to see if they are easy and complacent to work with, if not, they go to the next in line. If you use cloth diapers, if your child hits, or doesn't want to nap, next in line please.

I also have two children, so maybe I could find a place that is absolutely perfect for my three year old, but would my 18 month old be happy there? Should I leave my 18 month old with this lady for another year until she gets to old for her, and just move my three year old? Then I would be picking them up at two different places, perhaps on opposite ends of the city, and I would have to move the baby eventually anyway since I am sure as soon as she turns 3 the daycare lady will decide she doesn't like her anymore.

What I am looking for, is advice from a daycare provider who perhaps encountered this situation and not run from it. What did you do to fix it? Perhaps there are some ideas I can pass on to my provider in the hopes that she will not kick my daughter out in favour of a complacent, easy child.

Run from it? You are assuming that it's the big bad wolf of day care experiences. There's nothing to run from!!!! Do you seriously think this is a big deal? Do you really think someone needs an education or experience to deal with this. THIS IS SIMPLE. You either have a kid UP who you are providing direct care and supervision to while they are up or you don't. Why is it hard to understand that this is NOT hard to understand.

If you can't find a day care that will work with your family's needs then quit work and YOU keep your kid up 14-16 straight hours a day and see how that works for you.

You said: The provider interviews the child and parent to see if they are easy and complacent to work with, if not, they go to the next in line. If you use cloth diapers, if your child hits, or doesn't want to nap, next in line please.

YES the provider gets to decide. It's her house. Her business. Her livlihood. You don't expect McDonalds to offer sushi do you? They get to decide what they offer. If they don't want cloth diapers then no cloth diapers. If they don't want to care for kids that have aggression then no kids with aggression. If they don't need a FULL afternoon nap then only take and keep the kids who need a FULL afternoon nap.

Bottom line is that you want a service that she doesn't offer. It feels like you want some sort of comprimise that leads to a YES for you and your 3 year old. Let me give you a little insider day care info: There's no gray when it comes to having a kid up at nap. Most providers I know look at it like this: If one is up they might as well all be up. The break in the middle of a long day that most providers want and need can not be done if ANY kid is up during nap. It's the COMPLETE quiet of her home that recharges her. It's a FULL two hour break that she looks forward to. ANYTHING that comprimises that will end up meaning she simply doesn't get a break. Even if that something is an easy three year old who will "let" her work as long as she is being talked to while the provider is working.

If there are so many more kids than providers than my suggestion is offer her a high hourly rate for having only YOUR kid up at nap. An extra ten dollars an hour during nap time might well solve this. If the provider can make another 100 bucks a week for the two hours she is doing one to one then you guys may strike a deal. That's how I manage requests to have the kid up at nap. We will do it but my staff assistant must be paid during that time to one to one the child. She's ten bucks an hour on TOP of the regular salary. So yes... we can keep your three year old up but YES we have to charge extra for it. Expecting her to do it without substantially raising her rate of pay is going to cause problems. She might be willing to do it as long as you pay the "nanny" rate for the one to one she will HAVE to receive during this time.

Nan

[judytrickett]

Goodness no I'm not being serious.
It's what the mom believes so why not just placate her and send her on her way.
Except for the part about showing providers her post. That would be great to let unsuspecting new providers know what they are in for.

Whew....good to know.....:)

[Vesta]

I am sorry I took it as serious. I went back and edited my own post on it.
That's okay, caffeine hadn't kicked in yet so I was a little on the pi$$y side.

I'll go back and add a little tongue sticking out emoticon.

Okay, never mind, I guess you can't do that when you edit.

[judytrickett]

That is true, and for not much pay either; however, for some reason people do choose this job. Nobody is saying it is easy.

Although, I don't know what you are talking about with an hour long lunch. Most jobs here are 7.5 hours work, with a half hour lunch or 8 hours with 1/2 lunch and two 15 min breaks. I don't know anybody who has an hour lunch.

Plus if you have ever worked in an office, you sit in a cube all day, half the time you are bored because they don't have any work for you, so you need to 'look' busy. You cannot do anything that even looks remotely like you are goofing off, such as reading, surfing the internet. They walk by and look at your screen. You need to have your compiler up at all times, be in your seat and find something to occupy your mind that is not noticeable. Or you are incredibly busy and working through lunch because you have a deadline to meet, and no, you don't get paid overtime for this. Programmers are generally control freaks, so they fight all the time, misunderstand each other and it is not a fun, loving environment, and the boss rarely tells you when you do good work, but certainly points out when you mess up. This is life. This is the job I chose. I come in every day and do my best.

Daycare providers choose their job too. There are pros and cons to every job and EVERY job is hard. Pick one and do your best at it. Try and work with your boss to make it a good environment. If you don't like your job, you always have the option of doing something else. Yes, I know it is challenging to change careers, that is one of the reasons I am still here. I don't want to take a paycut.

I am sure you get rewards too, like when your kids don't want to go home because daycare is so much fun, or when you were there when the baby walked for the first time and the parents were stuck in a cubicle. There must be a reason why you do this job, or else you wouldn't do it.

Um..yeah....and most daycare providers work a TEN hour day or more. Most providers do NOT get vacation pay, we certainly don't get health benefits and we have wear and tear on our homes.

And NO, I am NOT complaining. But I also think you can not compare apples to oranges.

And YEP, it is a CHOICE. But, just like WE chose to provide home daycare YOU chose to go to work outside the home in whatever field YOU chose. And therefore YOU chose to place your child in daycare. And by doing so you CHOSE to relinquish some control over every aspect of your child.

Just like when you send your child off to school - YOU do NOT get to chose every single thing that happens there. Schools have rules and standards and if you want to keep your child in school you follow those rules. Daycare is really no different in that respect.

Just a thought but....you seem to have A LOT of self admitted obstacles to finding care that is suitable to you. Perhaps the problem lies not in all the providers but in what you want or expect or deem appropriate.

I know that as a provider who knows A LOT of other providers Golden Families are VERY much wanted in our care. We seek them out and sign them on in a hearbeat.

[judytrickett]

Run from it? You are assuming that it's the big bad wolf of day care experiences. There's nothing to run from!!!! Do you seriously think this is a big deal? Do you really think someone needs an education or experience to deal with this. THIS IS SIMPLE. You either have a kid UP who you are providing direct care and supervision to while they are up or you don't. Why is it hard to understand that this is NOT hard to understand.

If you can't find a day care that will work with your family's needs then quit work and YOU keep your kid up 14-16 straight hours a day and see how that works for you.

You said: The provider interviews the child and parent to see if they are easy and complacent to work with, if not, they go to the next in line. If you use cloth diapers, if your child hits, or doesn't want to nap, next in line please.

YES the provider gets to decide. It's her house. Her business. Her livlihood. You don't expect McDonalds to offer sushi do you? They get to decide what they offer. If they don't want cloth diapers then no cloth diapers. If they don't want to care for kids that have aggression then no kids with aggression. If they don't need a FULL afternoon nap then only take and keep the kids who need a FULL afternoon nap.

Bottom line is that you want a service that she doesn't offer. It feels like you want some sort of comprimise that leads to a YES for you and your 3 year old. Let me give you a little insider day care info: There's no gray when it comes to having a kid up at nap. Most providers I know look at it like this: If one is up they might as well all be up. The break in the middle of a long day that most providers want and need can not be done if ANY kid is up during nap. It's the COMPLETE quiet of her home that recharges her. It's a FULL two hour break that she looks forward to. ANYTHING that comprimises that will end up meaning she simply doesn't get a break. Even if that something is an easy three year old who will "let" her work as long as she is being talked to while the provider is working.

If there are so many more kids than providers than my suggestion is offer her a high hourly rate for having only YOUR kid up at nap. An extra ten dollars an hour during nap time might well solve this. If the provider can make another 100 bucks a week for the two hours she is doing one to one then you guys may strike a deal. That's how I manage requests to have the kid up at nap. We will do it but my staff assistant must be paid during that time to one to one the child. She's ten bucks an hour on TOP of the regular salary. So yes... we can keep your three year old up but YES we have to charge extra for it. Expecting her to do it without substantially raising her rate of pay is going to cause problems. She might be willing to do it as long as you pay the "nanny" rate for the one to one she will HAVE to receive during this time.

Nan

As usual, Nan......I LOVE what you just said. Right ON the mark.

[FrustratedMommy]

In Quebec daycare providers get two weeks paid vacation or more if they put it in their contract. The daycare is open 7-5, so yes that is almost a 10 hour day. They are not allowed to charge more. They get x amount from the government and x amount from the parent. I can't offer her more.

My child naps at home for at least 2 hours, it is only at daycare that she refuses to nap. I wonder why I can get her to nap and nap for 2 to 3 hours, but the daycare lady can't.

I would love to stay home with my children, but I would lose my house, so I guess I will just keep trying to solve this problem on my own, since nobody seems to have any ideas.

Honestly, you may all think I am a b**ch, but how many parents do you know that back up their daycare provider. I am not telling my child not to nap at her house. I am telling her to listen to the daycare provider, because she is the grown up and you are the kid. I am doing everything in my power to support the daycare provider. When she brings up issues

My kid does not hit, is not hyper or agressive, is very sweet and affectionate, gnerally well behaved. She is also now completely potty trained. Plus she hugs another baby at the daycare (not my 18 month old)that cries all the time, keeping her quiet so the daycare lady doesn't have to hold that baby all day long. She just has a stubborn streak. I don't believe this makes her inelligable for daycare. If the daycare lady kicks her out, she will be missing out on an accomidating parent, and lovely little 3 year old and the 18 month old that she seems to love dearly. I guess it is her decision, and I will just have to deal with that.

Thank you all for your time. I am sorry to have disturbed you.

[Crystal]

Frustrated Mommy, I totally understand how frustrated you are. It sounds like you have made every effort to make this work for both your provider and your child. It does sound to me like the provider is the one with the issue here and honestly, if you feel your provider does not like your 3 year old, I would start looking for other care. Find a provider that meets the needs of both of your children and put your family on that providers waitlist. When she has space, you can terminate your current contract.

There ARE providers out here that will work with your child to make sure that her needs are being met in a way that is respectful and works for all: the child, the family and provider....as you have read here, it will be difficult, because many providers DO have the ATTITUDE that because it is their business they can call the shots and do as they please, all the while disregarding the needs of their clients....sure we all need a brek every day, but we do not NEED a 3 hour break, which is generally how long nap lasts. Why anyone thinks that is a perogative, despite the fact that many children do not need that much (if any) sleep at naptime, is beyond me.

Some suggestions: Can you wake your daughter alittle earlier each morning, so perhaps she will be a little more sleepy at naptime? Is the provider offering stimulating activity, including outdoor active playtime, so that your child will burn energy and be ready to nap at naptime? If not, INSIST that she does....your child needs it, not only for being able to rest, but because it is healthy for her.

Good luck, sounds like you have one of those providers who thinks that because it's her business, your opinion about your own child's needs is irrelevent......

[FrustratedMommy]

Thank you so much for your reply Crystal. It is so nice to know not everybody thinks I am a b**ch.

I think I will start looking again, but it is a bit of a difficult situation here in Aylmer. I have had my three year old on the wait list for every big daycare in the area, since conception. I got called back for one, we went and did the interview, they accepted us, we gave them a void check, signed the contract, and they told us a sibling of on the kids in the daycare took the spot.

For several months I had my three year old near my house and my baby in Ottawa, which is in Ontario. I would leave my work in Ottawa, go to Aylmer, pick up my three year old, drive 45 minutes to Ottawa again, then drive an hour back to my house. I was leaving for work at 6am and arriving home with the kids at 6pm and then I had to cook supper. I got to spend no time with them. I could not pick up from the Ottawa daycare first, because it would have taken me 45 min to get there from work, and then an hour to get my three year old and I would have been late picking her up. I am sure all the providers on this board can tell you how they feel about parents that are late. The Ottawa daycare was just much more accomodating, she knew my situation and made an exception for me to help me out. Plus my baby was the only one at her daycare at the time, and she wasn't dropped off until after 9am.

I have been waking my daughter during the night and at 6:00am when I leave for work since we have taken away her diapers at night and that did help for a while. My husband gets up with her at 7:00am and refuses to get up any earlier. I think now she has just adjusted to me waking her up and is better at going back to sleep. We have been keeping her an extra half an hour, but I'm not sure that helps since I am noticing when I pick her up she is more tired and cranky, and I think it might make it more difficult for the daycare lady since she is less reasonable. Both the daycare lady and I agree that she does need a nap. She is tired and cranky when she doesn't have one.

The daycare lady often takes them to the park in the morning, and it is a 10 block walk for my daughter. We do notice that she sleeps more often when they go to the park, and I pointed this out to her as the problem started one week where it rained every day; however, the daycare lady pointed out that she slept all winter and they were inside most of the time.

Thank you so much for your support Crystal. It really helps.

[jen]

Frustrated Mommy, I totally understand how frustrated you are. It sounds like you have made every effort to make this work for both your provider and your child. It does sound to me like the provider is the one with the issue here and honestly, if you feel your provider does not like your 3 year old, I would start looking for other care. Find a provider that meets the needs of both of your children and put your family on that providers waitlist. When she has space, you can terminate your current contract.

There ARE providers out here that will work with your child to make sure that her needs are being met in a way that is respectful and works for all: the child, the family and provider....as you have read here, it will be difficult, because many providers DO have the ATTITUDE that because it is their business they can call the shots and do as they please, all the while disregarding the needs of their clients....sure we all need a brek every day, but we do not NEED a 3 hour break, which is generally how long nap lasts. Why anyone thinks that is a perogative, despite the fact that many children do not need that much (if any) sleep at naptime, is beyond me.

Some suggestions: Can you wake your daughter alittle earlier each morning, so perhaps she will be a little more sleepy at naptime? Is the provider offering stimulating activity, including outdoor active playtime, so that your child will burn energy and be ready to nap at naptime? If not, INSIST that she does....your child needs it, not only for being able to rest, but because it is healthy for her.

Good luck, sounds like you have one of those providers who thinks that because it's her business, your opinion about your own child's needs is irrelevent......

Crystal, some of your suggestions are really quite helpful, but I would like to point out that we have not heard the providers side and as such shouldn't be making any kind of judgement about "what kind" of provider this is.

Personally, I have a difficult time believing the the OP is truly waking her child up in the middle of the night...at least I hope she isn't.

[Crystal]

Thanks Jen, but I don't think I need the providers side, this parent sounds pretty truthful....she seems to have done many things to make it work for all involved, but the provider just isn't responsive to that.

In regards to waking her child up at night, she's potty training her for bedtime, I see nothing wrong with waking up to go potty.

[nannyde]

Frustrated Mommy, I totally understand how frustrated you are. It sounds like you have made every effort to make this work for both your provider and your child. It does sound to me like the provider is the one with the issue here and honestly, if you feel your provider does not like your 3 year old, I would start looking for other care. Find a provider that meets the needs of both of your children and put your family on that providers waitlist. When she has space, you can terminate your current contract.

There ARE providers out here that will work with your child to make sure that her needs are being met in a way that is respectful and works for all: the child, the family and provider....as you have read here, it will be difficult, because many providers DO have the ATTITUDE that because it is their business they can call the shots and do as they please, all the while disregarding the needs of their clients....sure we all need a brek every day, but we do not NEED a 3 hour break, which is generally how long nap lasts. Why anyone thinks that is a perogative, despite the fact that many children do not need that much (if any) sleep at naptime, is beyond me.

Some suggestions: Can you wake your daughter alittle earlier each morning, so perhaps she will be a little more sleepy at naptime? Is the provider offering stimulating activity, including outdoor active playtime, so that your child will burn energy and be ready to nap at naptime? If not, INSIST that she does....your child needs it, not only for being able to rest, but because it is healthy for her.

Good luck, sounds like you have one of those providers who thinks that because it's her business, your opinion about your own child's needs is irrelevent......

Crystal,
Parents can have opinions but they can't have opinions that fundamentally change the structure of your business. It would be like going into McDonalds and demanding organic chicken nuggets. Even though you believe it's better for your kid doesn't mean McDonalds has to accomodate that.

Having a child up at nap is HUGE in this industry. My State even goes as far as to completely protect Centers here by making it a LAW that all children under FIVE be given a two hour nap/rest period. They even state in the actual code that the reason for this is, in part, "to give Staff a much needed break". Seriously. Wanna know why they put that in there? They put it in because they had to field SO many complaints from parents turning their Center into the State because they FORCED the kids to take a nap. The Centers have power ($$$) and FOUGHT the State. The State learned very quickly that they couldn't force Centers to keep kids up at nap just because the parent wanted it. It was easier for the State to agree with the Centers and be able to refuse to take a child abuse complaint on a Center for "making" the kids nap. They were spending way too much staff time dealing with this ONE issue that they made the decision to side with the Centers.

Now the Centers tell the parents to bug off. No nappy ... no care.

The parents solutions to this... by reading the OP are to let her be up. It's very black and white. Anything that she wants to be done with the child means her actually being UP. It's not about the three year old being quietly active during nap it's about her laying in one spot, being quiet, and not getting up until she is told she can. THAT'S nap time. ANYTHING that alters that isn't going to work with most providers.

There should not be a problem with this. It's very simple. Ask your provider if she provides services to children who do not need a full afternoon nap. If she says she does not then go somewhere else. If you can't find a business to offer the services you want then you either stop needing that service or accept the service that doesn't offer it. Providers shouldn't be in the middle of the kid and the parents wants. She offers what she offers... take it or leave it. It's not personal. It's just like every other business.

[FrustratedMommy]

We put her to bed at 8:30. I wake her at 10 when I go to bed to pee, my husband wakes her at 12:00 when he goes to bed to pee. I wake her 6am to pee. The first week that we did this, she actually slept at daycare. Then Monday, she didn't sleep. Yesterday she slept again. Monday and Tuesday were her first dry nights. Before that it was a week of changing the bed ever morning.

My daycare lady is a very kind and loving woman and we get along great. She did tell us when we interviewed that she doesn't usually take toddlers; however, she agreed to take my three year old so that she could be with my 18 month old.

She just has a tendency to complain about my three year old and compare her to the baby. She will say to my three year old, the 18 month old, eats sleep, plays by herself, and never causes trouble. Then she will admit that the three year old actually never hits, doesn't usually cause trouble, she just doesn't want to sleep or eat.

I think she has just made her mind up that she doesn't want toddlers and so reacts negatively to my daughter. I think if she would just give her a chance, and we could fix this nap issue, then everything would be ok. I actually love the woman, and the baby loves her, which is a reason I want to stay. If I didn't like her, I would have made an effort to find something else.

[Golden Rule]

Frustrated Mommy,

I am actually dealing with this right now. My 4 year old dkg, whom has been with me since 6 weeks, now does not sleep at naptime. She is not disruptive in any way, just cannot fall asleep (mostly she just watches me mop, fold clothes and blows me kisses...:p).

Now,After 30 minutes down on her mat, I put headphones on her, scoot her up to my desk, and log her into Time4learning.com. Her mother and I both have the password, her mother pays the subscription fee, and she feels like such a big girl!! She even can print out her scores and certificates for the week. It is preparing her for pre-k, next year while allowing me to meet the needs of everyone else.

As a mother I understand your need to see your daughter treated like the unique person she is and the effects of "Mothers guilt". As a childcare provider I understand the frustration of one child/parent making it difficult to care for the rest in a fair and consistent manner. As a paramedic I know the outright anger of transporting a dead child that could have been saved if he/she had been taught "NO" early and consistently. Please understand that is what is fueling the longterm providers frustration....not freetime to watch their soaps...I promise.

If my particular dkg had been disruptive or if this was more about being spiteful in any way, I would have to stick to the original rules set up in the original contract. (I consider it a reward, not a right.) If the "request" was from the mother (for reasons like "I want her to sleep for the night-time babysitter so she does not kick her out" ...yes, that happens way too much:rolleyes:), even though the child obviously needed the nap, I would have to stick to the contract. I am about the best interest of the child. Sometimes that is not the best interest of myself or the parents.

I know it has been questioned why people get into home daycare...Everyone has their own reason. I would recommend asking them, in person, the first time you meet a prospective caregiver. It might save you some heartache. I, personally, got into daycare after my son died in daycare. It afforded me the ability to stay home with my own children, when I was ready to have more, while earning an income to afford them... Now they are teenagers and the dck have made them better, more compassionate people.

[laundryduchess@yahoo.com]

can I just second the below sentence,.... I totally agree!



Now they are teenagers and the dck have made them better, more compassionate people.[/QUOTE]

[judytrickett]

I, personally, got into daycare after my son died in daycare.

Wow, thanks for sharing. That is so terribly, incredibly sad.:(

[FrustratedMommy]

Golden Rule, thanks so much for your understanding. I was heartbroken to hear your story. I couldn't imagine loosing my little girls. They are the love of my life.

I understand that they daycare lady is not watching soaps but is actually doing the lunch dishes and preparing for the afternoon. I know she needs a break too. Ideally, she would just nap. That is the goal. I only offered other suggestions to the lady since she seemed unable to make that work.

I don't know why she can't seem to make her sleep. I don't have an issue getting her to sleep myself. I do think she still needs the nap.

nannyde says:

The parents solutions to this... by reading the OP are to let her be up. It's very black and white. Anything that she wants to be done with the child means her actually being UP. It's not about the three year old being quietly active during nap it's about her laying in one spot, being quiet, and not getting up until she is told she can. THAT'S nap time. ANYTHING that alters that isn't going to work with most providers.

What about my keeping her up a half an hour later, writing her story and telling her at nap time she should close her eyes and think of all the adventures she can go on, like she does in the story, keeping her schedule consistent on the weekends and putting her down for a nap at the same time as the DAYCARE lady would, not when I feel like it, punishing her when she doesn't nap by making her nap when she comes home rather than going to the park like we usually do, bribing her, having her call me on the phone when she won't sleep so I can tell her to go to sleep... Do these things sound like me being set on having her up. Having her up was one solution we tried that didn't work since she couldn't be quiet. We have gone back to forcing her to sleep again, and we have made some progress. We had over a week of her napping, then one day of fallback, and we have to see what she does today.

For the most part, I follow the daycare lady's routine. When she has parties for the kids birthdays, Easter, Christmas, I always thank her and make sure my kids thank her. When she doesn't give my daughter water all day until the snack time after her nap, and limits that, I don't say anything even though I worry about dehydration and constipation. She thinks it will make her pee at nap time, even though she drinks water all day long at home on weekends and still doesn't pee her bed. When she asked me to bring in a sippy cup for my 18 month old because she said she had issues drinking out of the sippy cups she owned and I didn't want her to drink out of a bottle since she was weaned, I brought in a sippy cup and that worked. I try really hard to let the daycare lady run things the way she wants when she has the kids.

I just think this is an issue that can be fixed. The fact that she sleeps at home tells me she doesn't just need to be UP. The daycare lady needs to find a way to reason with her, discipline her, or manage her like I do at home to make her do as she is told, like she does at home.

She is no stranger to the word no. We are quite strict at home.

[laundryduchess@yahoo.com]

frustrated Mommy,... I love you. =-) you sound like a really great daycare parent. want to move to Indiana? lol

[Golden Rule]

nannyde says:

What about my keeping her up a half an hour later, writing her story and telling her at nap time she should close her eyes and think of all the adventures she can go on, like she does in the story, keeping her schedule consistent on the weekends and putting her down for a nap at the same time as the DAYCARE lady would, not when I feel like it, punishing her when she doesn't nap by making her nap when she comes home rather than going to the park like we usually do, bribing her, having her call me on the phone when she won't sleep so I can tell her to go to sleep... Do these things sound like me being set on having her up. Having her up was one solution we tried that didn't work since she couldn't be quiet. We have gone back to forcing her to sleep again, and we have made some progress. We had over a week of her napping, then one day of fallback, and we have to see what she does today.

I just think this is an issue that can be fixed. The fact that she sleeps at home tells me she doesn't just need to be UP. The daycare lady needs to find a way to reason with her, discipline her, or manage her like I do at home to make her do as she is told, like she does at home.

She is no stranger to the word no. We are quite strict at home.

These things make me wonder if maybe she is seeking attention by opposition? I did this to my sitters all the time when I was younger...lol!!! Maybe she caught on that when she is quiet she gets less attention and she sees this as a perfect time to get hers in? Not finger pointing at adults, just realizing how smart she is.... She is getting extra time with both of you this way:) Do you see it, too, anyone?...:lol: Squeaky wheel, maybe?

It is possible that the best solution is to do nothing, literally. Just put her on her mat, matter of factly, then continue with chores. No discussion. It may pass as quickly as it came on.:cool:

[FrustratedMommy]

LOL, thank you laundryduchess.

That may be a good point Golden Rule. I will pass that along to the daycare provider. I think she is trying that now in a way.

She puts her on the mat with the other kids and stays in the room to prevent her waking the other kids, I think my daughter is at least laying down now and sleeping most of the time.

It is a little better now that she kicked out the aggressive boy. He was at times destructive and a bad influence on the other kids, doing things such as coloring on the walls etc. Then if the daycare lady had to deal with him and not get a break because my daughter didn't sleep it was really difficult for her.

I will also continue to try putting her for a nap when we get home if she didn't sleep at daycare since this is removing attention rather than giving additional attention. She missed out on a playdate on Monday because she didn't sleep so she really understood the consequences there.

Thank you both for your help.

[Chickenhauler]

Ufortunately, that would mean I would never find daycare. Here for each spot, there are 20 kids lined up for each spot. If your child has any challenges at all, they dump you and find another kid.

What I am hearing from this post is that all daycare providers are like this. None of them actually like children, or maybe they like children as long as they are complacent and easy to deal with.

The provider interviews the child and parent to see if they are easy and complacent to work with, if not, they go to the next in line. If you use cloth diapers, if your child hits, or doesn't want to nap, next in line please.

I also have two children, so maybe I could find a place that is absolutely perfect for my three year old, but would my 18 month old be happy there? Should I leave my 18 month old with this lady for another year until she gets to old for her, and just move my three year old? Then I would be picking them up at two different places, perhaps on opposite ends of the city, and I would have to move the baby eventually anyway since I am sure as soon as she turns 3 the daycare lady will decide she doesn't like her anymore.

What I am looking for, is advice from a daycare provider who perhaps encountered this situation and not run from it. What did you do to fix it? Perhaps there are some ideas I can pass on to my provider in the hopes that she will not kick my daughter out in favour of a complacent, easy child.


You mention contracts in your line of work....when the time comes to line up some new work, and you have tons of jobs to choose from, do you choose the most stress free, profitable one of the bunch, or do you choose the most difficult, hair pulling, demanding, and lowest paying one?


That is true, and for not much pay either; however, for some reason people do choose this job. Nobody is saying it is easy.

Although, I don't know what you are talking about with an hour long lunch. Most jobs here are 7.5 hours work, with a half hour lunch or 8 hours with 1/2 lunch and two 15 min breaks. I don't know anybody who has an hour lunch.

Plus if you have ever worked in an office, you sit in a cube all day, half the time you are bored because they don't have any work for you, so you need to 'look' busy. You cannot do anything that even looks remotely like you are goofing off, such as reading, surfing the internet. They walk by and look at your screen. You need to have your compiler up at all times, be in your seat and find something to occupy your mind that is not noticeable. Or you are incredibly busy and working through lunch because you have a deadline to meet, and no, you don't get paid overtime for this. Programmers are generally control freaks, so they fight all the time, misunderstand each other and it is not a fun, loving environment, and the boss rarely tells you when you do good work, but certainly points out when you mess up. This is life. This is the job I chose. I come in every day and do my best.

Daycare providers choose their job too. There are pros and cons to every job and EVERY job is hard. Pick one and do your best at it. Try and work with your boss to make it a good environment. If you don't like your job, you always have the option of doing something else. Yes, I know it is challenging to change careers, that is one of the reasons I am still here. I don't want to take a paycut.

I am sure you get rewards too, like when your kids don't want to go home because daycare is so much fun, or when you were there when the baby walked for the first time and the parents were stuck in a cubicle. There must be a reason why you do this job, or else you wouldn't do it.

Sounds to me like you hate your job, only go there for the paycheck (not because you enjoy what you do).

I was once in your position....great pay, great benefits, hated the job, hated my co-workers, hated the area I worked in, hated EVERYTHING about my career.

I quit and struck out in a new direction. Life's too short to be miserable for a few sheckels in the pocket at the end of the week.

The funny thing is, I did take an initial cut in pay, but 10 years later, I'm making over TWICE what I would have topped out at in my previous line of work. Mainly because I enjoy my work, and it shows.

[Janet]

Look, I can empathize with you. I had a non-napping child as well. However, I never, ever expected her to disregard her policies, the law, the rights of the other kids to nap or her own right to some down time. I made it clear to my daughter that she was to lay quietly and she would never sleep but she would always lay quietly. I have a home daycare business and I've always stuck to my nap policy. I get that parents don't want their providers to force their kids to sleep, but who says they have to sleep? I require them to lay quietly for a good portion of nap time. Please remember that you may not be the only parent with kids in your provider's care so she may have other people to please other than you. Also, when was the last time that you had to try to pacify a 3 year old without waking 5 other sleeping children? It's no easy task. As far as this business of providers not being willing to take on a challenge, I have to respectfully disagree. I love a good challenge, but I also know when it's a challenge that I don't want to take on. Your job is not like our jobs. I'm not saying that one job is better than the other, I'm just saying that they are totally different jobs. You can't compare taking on a challenge at your job to taking on a challenge at ours. Totally different. You have a boss and a goal to accomplish. We don't have bosses but we have many different people to try to make happy. It's apples and oranges.

It's great that you are willing to offer up suggestions to your provider. That's a good thing. I wish that more parents would do that, because it truly is a team effort. I'd gladly take suggestions from the parents of the kids in my care if I needed some help and I have asked for suggestions when I come across a situation that I need help on. My ego's not so big that I think that I'm the authority on all things child related. I know that you offer your provider suggestions and you say that you are on her side, but some of your comments about her tend to give me the impression that she's not doing good enough for you. I get the feeling that you think that the grass would be greener on the other side. Could just be me, I guess, but you seemed a little passive-aggressive about your provider.

If you're not happy with the nap time situation, then I think that you should try to find a provider who doesn't have napping kids or you need to keep reinforcing with your daughter that naptime is quiet time. That means no playing or talking or any other activity that could get loud. Since the other kids do nap, then it's your job to find a way to make it work. If the shoe were on the other foot, and your kid was the one with the interrupted nap, you'd expect the same, I'd bet.

[momofsix]

Frustrated Mommy, I feel really horrible that you say this provider "hates" toddlers and is always complaining about your child:( Maybe your child isn't sleeping because the atmosphere isn't comfortable at all for her? Unless you are exaagerating daycare lady's feelings, I would not want my child anywhere that she is hated, simply because of her age!

[gkids09]

LOL, thank you laundryduchess.

That may be a good point Golden Rule. I will pass that along to the daycare provider. I think she is trying that now in a way.

She puts her on the mat with the other kids and stays in the room to prevent her waking the other kids, I think my daughter is at least laying down now and sleeping most of the time.

It is a little better now that she kicked out the aggressive boy. He was at times destructive and a bad influence on the other kids, doing things such as coloring on the walls etc. Then if the daycare lady had to deal with him and not get a break because my daughter didn't sleep it was really difficult for her.

I will also continue to try putting her for a nap when we get home if she didn't sleep at daycare since this is removing attention rather than giving additional attention. She missed out on a playdate on Monday because she didn't sleep so she really understood the consequences there.

Thank you both for your help.

Frustrated Mommy, you say your provider stays in the room with her so she won't wake up the other kids. You also said earlier that, at home, your daughter sleeps two hours at naptime. I have had the experience before with kids who don't want to nap because they are afraid they will miss something...Sounds like me when I was a kid. :) With those kids, I stayed in the room, and either sat down or laid down next to them and rubbed their back, arms, and eyes (whichever seems to work best for that child). Once they go to sleep, I could get up and get done what I needed to get done. I wonder if your provider has tried that? It's almost impossible for a kid to stay awake when you are rubbing her eyes, because if they keep them open, your finger will go in them. lol (oh, and no, I have NEVER allowed my finger to poke a child in the eye, just so everyone knows!) I also have lullaby music playing softly every single day at naptime, and that helps too. Just a couple ideas your might want to suggest. While in my contract it says that we have nap/quiet time from 1:30-3:30, I realize that some children have a harder time going to sleep. I try my very best to accommodate them while keeping my rules intact. It is kind of hard to get everything done that needs to be done during nap time, but if you practice it a few times, you get pretty fast at it. :p

[FrustratedMommy]

Well, I spoke with my provider again today. It seems my daughter does lay down with the other kids, for as long as she stays in the room. Unfortunately, some days, after an hour of laying down quietly with the other kids, my daughter is still not asleep and then the provider wants to leave the room, to do the dishes. If she leaves my daughter in the room she will wake up the other kids, even though we have both explained to her several times that the other kids want to sleep and it is not fair to them to wake them up because you don't want to sleep. Every day that she doesn't sleep, she gets the lecture, and now she has to skip the park as well if she doesn't sleep.

Now it seems what the daycare lady is doing is taking her out of the room if she is not asleep after an hour, and leaving her in the hallway, with all the doors closed. So today she called to her sister through the door and woke her up, then she went to sleep. I understand the frustration, I would be mad at her too, and I tell her so when I pick her up. The problem is, I am not there, I cannot control the situation, so I all I get is complaints and hearsay when I pick her up. I was under the impression that she was telling the daycare lady no and not laying down on her mat. Actually what she is laying down on her mat with her eyes open and looking at the daycare lady. I will mention the rubbing of the eyes though to keep them closed. I think now she is trying to take the attention away though, since as Golden Rule mentioned, she thinks she is doing this for attention. She lays down on the floor and turns away from my daughter so as to remove the attention.

She does not "hate" my daughter. I think she likes her for the most part, but she prefers babies, and the fact that she always raves about my baby and complains about my toddler, does not make me feel good. I worry that she is going to give my daughter a complex and make her jealous of her sister whom she now loves. I also get the impression that she is looking for any excuse to get rid of her, as she makes it clear that she is doing me a favour by taking her since she doesn't normally take toddlers. She reminds me of this periodically if my daughter misbehaves.

I am frustrated with the Aylmer situation in general, since the daycares are all subsidized, but it is nearly impossible to get a spot, the daycare people are more complacent than in other places. All the people I know in Aylmer have difficulty since there are so few places for a large population. If you find a spot, you keep your mouth shut, hang on as hard as you can and pray you don't get kicked out for something out of your control. Perhaps this is where my passive agression comes from. Every time you pick up your kids, there is always something the daycare lady will complain about. At one place they told me she had diarrhea which is a kickable offence if it happens too often. Oddly enough since she the time she was 6 months old, my daughter has been so constipated she would cry when she had a bowel movement. The diarrhea complaint was a huge surprise. When she began to cry during her bowel movements again, then the daycare lady said it was perfect. When it came time to bring my baby, this woman made it clear that she didn't want babies. She begrudingly agreed to take our baby, after giving us the run around. I was concerned though that the baby would sense that she was not wanted and was looking for something else. Amazingly, I found the current lady who agreed to take both my kids. At the time I thought I was dreaming to find a place for the baby. That was pure luck.

Then this lady would complain my toddler wouldn't eat. So I told her, put the food in front of her, if she doesn't eat, take it away and don't give her cookies at snack time. She still continued to complain that she doesn't eat. I continued to reiterate, that if she doesn't eat it is fine, she just eats more at supper. Then the woman got really angry that her child eats at home but not here. She took it as a personal insult that my kid wouldn't eat her food. I explained that we had to go through an entire process of taking her supper out for breakfast if she didn't eat it for supper. Finally she got the message and now she eats at home. I offered to try that for her if it was a big deal. So she started sending the lunch home if she didn't eat it and my daughter would have to eat it for supper. She ate the meal fine at home. This made her even more angry because she felt that my daughter was being disrespectful to her by not eating at lunch time. Then I told her to make the portion sizes smaller because what she sent home was enough to feed her for the entire week, and if you put too much on her plate she thinks she has to eat the entire plate and gets discourged. This helped somewhat, she eats maybe 3 / 5 days of the week. It still bugs the daycare lady but the napping thing trumped that so she stopped complaining about it. Honestly, I don't understand why it was such a big deal in the first place. She won't starve by skipping lunch, and it wasn't causing her any more work as I was very insistant that she should not make my daughter special food. She just didn't like the idea of her not eating.

As for my job, I like it a lot of the time, hate it some of the time. I don't get to pick my contracts, I work for a consulting company and they tell me where to go. If the situation at work gets tense, I stick it out until the contract is over, because I don't think it is fair to leave the client hanging, or make the consulting company find me another job. There are not a lot of technology jobs, and I know a lot of programmers out of work, or settling for low paying jobs. I myself worked for half what I should be paid for 6 years because I didn't think I could get anything else. Eventually they laid me off while I was on maternity and I had to find something else. I ended up making twice as much money, but the other job was more fun, since I was always busy. My point is, every job has pros and cons, some of the people on here talking about what it is like to run a daycare makes it sound like they hate their job. I don't always like my job either, but I go to work, do the best I can, and I don't complain to my boss constantly unless I want to be fired. The daycare people here know they won't be fired because they are so scarce so if something causes them any effort at all, like having to heavern forbid actually wipe my daughter's bum, they pass it along to the parents and expect them to magically solve the problem.

Honestly, the daycare situtation is so bad here, I even fix the daycare ladies computer for free in the hopes that she will want to keep me around.

[FrustratedMommy]

Oh, and the shoe was on the other foot at one point. In the previous daycare a child was biting my daughter. I actually sympathised with the mother since she was horrified and doing everything in her power to stop it, but nothing seemed to work. When my daughter left, I think she was a bit relieved, even though her daughter and my daughter were very close, because that solved the problem. I certainly didn't want that child to be kicked out of the daycare as I understand how difficult it is to find one in the first place. In fact, I was making suggestions to help resolve that situation as well.

We started getting the kids together out of daycare in the hopes that we would actually witness the biting so the mother could discipline on the spot. As with my problem, the mother was not actually there when the biting happened, so it is difficul for her to punish her child. It doesn't have the same effect when you do it hours later. I completely understand how she felt, and I was just happy my daughter was the one being bitten rather than being the one doing the biting since I was not responsible for solving that problem. I was already getting an earful every day due to the fact that my daughter had a less than firm bowel movement. You just feel completely helpless, there is a weight in your chest all the time, I get butterflies in my stomache when I leave work to pick up my kids because I am scared to find out if she slept or not today. I just don't know what to do.

[fctjc1979]

Wow, that's a really tough situation. If it were me, I'd pull my kids out of daycare and start my own daycare. But not everyone is good with kids or wants to deal with kids all day. I'd start looking for other day care. I know you said it's hard to find, but that's exactly the reason you should find someone else. It sounds like it wouldn't take much for this lady to kick you out. And if you find other care, maybe you won't have to worry about your kids so much. It sounds like a very unsafe system to have too many kids and not enough daycares because the daycare providers can get away with anything by the sound of it.

[gkids09]

Wow, that's a really tough situation. If it were me, I'd pull my kids out of daycare and start my own daycare. But not everyone is good with kids or wants to deal with kids all day. I'd start looking for other day care. I know you said it's hard to find, but that's exactly the reason you should find someone else. It sounds like it wouldn't take much for this lady to kick you out. And if you find other care, maybe you won't have to worry about your kids so much. It sounds like a very unsafe system to have too many kids and not enough daycares because the daycare providers can get away with anything by the sound of it.

I was about to suggest the idea of starting your own daycare too. Especially if the providers in your area complain as much as yours. lol You seem like someone who is willing to work with everyone else in the best interest of the child. I hate you are going through this. I hope everything works out for you!!

[QualiTcare]

I am very surprised to hear daycare providers speak this way in a public forum.

I am the parent of a 3 1/2 yr old who does not need a nap. On weekends, she is quite happy and content, goes to bed at 8-8:30pm tops, getting up at the same time as we would on weekdays when we go to daycare, 7:30am ish.

Yet on weeknights, I cannot get her to sleep. This is not a question of discipline, as I have no issue on the weekends when she does not take a nap. The only difference is the daycare nap of approx 2 hours. She usually falls asleep around 10:30 - 11pm. Almost exactly 2 hours later...see the link!

I find your comments on parents to be generalizations that are not helpful to parents and children. Some children may need a nap while others do not...you shoudl be able to adapt your practices to these facts.

i agree as a parent and a care provider. when i was going to school, i worked at the "chain daycare" my kids attended. they had a naptime of 12:30 - 2:30, but in reality, they would have the kids lie down at 12 and if they weren't up by 2:30, they would let them keep sleeping. i told my son's teacher that she needed to wake him up if he wasn't up by 2:30. my kids already stay up until 10 at LEAST and letting him sleep 3-4 hours wasn't helping. my daughter who was 4 at the time got to where she no longer needed naps, along with a lot of the other 4 year olds. they would make them lie on the mats. they claim to give them books or "quiet activities" but really, they tried to make them sleep so they could break. they got downright mad and mean with the kids if they wouldn't sleep. i know. i worked there. i found it much easier for everyone to let those kids who didn't fall asleep after 30 mins come to a table with me to color or play with play dough - with the stipulation that if they got loud, they would have to lie back down. it was much easier doing that than it was trying for 2 hours to keep them quiet and still.

i'm not licensed as a daycare because i only keep 4 kids so i don't have to be. i did that on purpose because i have the freedom to let the kids sleep when they want or not make them if they don't want to. there are other advantages - like i don't have to take them outside if it's 33 degrees outside and they're all coughing. the parents love it because their kids can sleep when they want to instead of when my schedule says they have to. i don't have to stop serving breakfast at a certain time, etc. parents like that because if they're running late, their kids don't have to starve until snack time because the state says i have a cutoff time. i can basically operate like a "babysitter" but i don't charge like a babysitter. there's a difference though in being licensed and not being licensed.

[Unregistered]

I run a family daycare and in the state of Maryland it is a requirement that the children get a 2 hour nap/rest period. I give all the kids a nap from 12:30-2:30 -ish. I have one parent who told her 4 year old, not to nap at my house anymore. I do not insist that she sleep, but lay down quietly. She is allowed to read books, etc., as long as she is quiet for the other kids. She is the 1st one asleep everyday. She falls asleep within 5 minutes of laying down. Her parents have always allowed her to stay awake at night till 10:30-11:30 from the time she was an infant. Now they think she is staying awake that late because of the nap. I need to add, she is only here part-time, but goes to bed everynight that late. Every child I have ever watched including my own, have taken naps and still go to bed by 8-8:30. I feel that the parents are blaming me and my nap policy for their child not going to bed at night, when I feel it is their lack of dicipline on getting their child on a decent schedule. Any opinions would be appreciated, however, with all the new centers opening around us, I cannot afford to tick people off. In my area, alot of home providers are struggling and I know they can go just about anywhere.

Not all children need a nap. At 3 years old it is a given, among many parents that children do not nap anymore or they do not need one because they will not go to bed at night. It is like this way with ALL my friends and their kids too! Your kids were just different. Their bodies are changing. All 3 of my children are up late if they take a nap and my friends' kids too! Parents are blessed if their children take naps and then do not go to bed late at 3 and 4 years old. Your one child that is falling asleep within 5 minutes is just used to falling asleep at that time and it doesn't help her/him that the other children are going to sleep too! The parents want her to stay up so that she will go to bed. She just needs to get used to it. They are probably going out of their minds and you don't care. When children are babies parents may have a later bedtime for children because their sleep changes with age. I bet you that most of your parents do not tell you how late their children are up because of your nap policy. If you be respectful of other parents then you won't have problems. Maybe you can have an area for children whose parents do not want them to nap where they can do quiet activities and cal it "quiet time." Have you heard of "quiet time?" It is what children do when they are 3 years and up instead of napping so that they do not stay up all hours of the night. If you advertise that, I can guarantee you will have more business than anyone!! Having that child sit on the mat is telling that child that it is nap time. You need to take away the mat! This is very simple!

[Janet]

OK, to the poster who said to take the naptime mat away, this is not always a possibility. I understand that some kids give up their naps, but that's not my problem. In the state that I live in, a rest/nap time is legally required for kids that are under the age of 6 if they are in care for more than 5 hours a day. I don't tell my kids that they have to sleep, but they do have to rest. It just so happens that ALL of my dcks fall asleep so that tells me that they need the nap. Also, I think that the quiet place, like a mat for example, is necessary in order for a "quiet time" to happen. When was the last time that you tried to get a 3 year old to play quietly while all of the other kids were sleeping? Besides, it's really not fair to let one kid skip rest time while every other kid has a nap time. Plain and simple, kids need time daily to unwind, even if they don't want to sleep. And providers need time to unwind as well, and that's impossible to do if you are trying to keep one child quiet enough so as to not wake up all of the other sleeping kids.

[laundryduchess@yahoo.com]

I tell my families that Here,..ALL children nap,.. if they arent going to bed at night maybe they should get up earlier in the mornings. ??? If that doesnt help maybe a new provider is needed that caters to that niche. I personally dont. I refuse to have kids grouchy at 330 in the afternoon because they havent had a nap and all whiney and mad. Not getting along with their friends because their parent doesnt want them to nap so they go to bed at the parents choice for a bedtime. I understand that some kids need naps,.. and by about 4 some dont,.. but,... When they outgrow their nap,.. they outgrow me. I offer a service and if it doesnt fit your needs,.. by all means, find one that does. No hard feelings. Im up front about my routines and nap times. If Im not a fit for you then good luck to you in finding someone who is.

[melissa ann]

IMO, 3 yr olds need a nap. I have kids from 13 months -5 1/2 yrs old. And I will tell you, that they all nap. The 5 1/2 is my daughter. Now, sometimes after lunch, she wil stay up and work on a craft but after about 30 mins or so, she says she's tired and wants to rest. The 3 dck arrive around 6 am and are here until 5. They definetly need a nap. Sometimes, the grandpa of the 4 yr old says that he's outgrown his nap, but I can honestly tell you that he almost always the first one to fall asleep. The kids don't have to sleep. After 30-45 mins or so I will check on them and on the rare occasions when someone is still awake, I will take them in the kitchen to color, do a puzzle or some other quiet activity. But those instances are few and far between.

[Unregistered]

My soon to be 4 year old is in daycare and takes a nap. HE DOES NOT NEED A NAP AT 4! He sleeps 2 hours from 1-3pm and then is up until 10:30-11ap at night and it is killing me. Yes, I do have control over my child. I think if the parent does not want their child to take a nap you should respect that. After all we have EMPLOYED YOU! My son does not take naps on the weekend and is in bed by 8-8:30 has a good nights sleep and is fine throught the day. I can't believe some of the respones on here!! My daycare is now working with me and waking my son up early from his nap. I would respect the parents wishes if you want to keep your business.



I run a family daycare and in the state of Maryland it is a requirement that the children get a 2 hour nap/rest period. I give all the kids a nap from 12:30-2:30 -ish. I have one parent who told her 4 year old, not to nap at my house anymore. I do not insist that she sleep, but lay down quietly. She is allowed to read books, etc., as long as she is quiet for the other kids. She is the 1st one asleep everyday. She falls asleep within 5 minutes of laying down. Her parents have always allowed her to stay awake at night till 10:30-11:30 from the time she was an infant. Now they think she is staying awake that late because of the nap. I need to add, she is only here part-time, but goes to bed everynight that late. Every child I have ever watched including my own, have taken naps and still go to bed by 8-8:30. I feel that the parents are blaming me and my nap policy for their child not going to bed at night, when I feel it is their lack of dicipline on getting their child on a decent schedule. Any opinions would be appreciated, however, with all the new centers opening around us, I cannot afford to tick people off. In my area, alot of home providers are struggling and I know they can go just about anywhere.

[Janet]

I'm glad that you found a provider who is willing to work with you, but you can't just assume that your child's need to not nap trumps the needs of the other children who do need a nap and the provider who deserves a small break. It's also very presumptuous of you to say that your daycare provider "works for you". I''ve got a news flash for you...you are NOT her employer. She is her own boss and she can replace you just as easily as you can replace her. It's also not her problem if your child won't go to sleep at the regular bed time. Every single kid in my care takes naps and they all go to bed for their parents at a pretty regular time. Even if my daycare kids didn't go to bed for their parents until super late, that is still not my problem. My daughter was not a napper either, but I never objected to them trying to get her to nap and I never objected to her having to lay quirtly for rest time.

[lilrugrats]

I have been on both sides of the fence. I sent my kid to a daycare center, and now I run my own family daycare. I take kids ages 5 weeks to 12 years old. Lets start at the daycare center my son went to. He was an infant but I read up on naps, thinking that my child would be there until he was in school. They have a mandatory "quiet" time from 12-3. If your child does not fall asleep and is being loud then they are brought to another room with the awake children. This is not always available for home daycares....

so now on to my own home daycare. I have watched many older children ages 3-5. Each one is different. I try to stress early bedtime, especially with drop off being at 6-7am, which means the kids get up even earlier! The majority of the time when I hear "my kid wont sleep at night" I just let them know that their child falls asleep quickly and obviously still needs a nap, so I try to work with them on ways to get them to sleep at night.
Now for the children that do not fall asleep easily, I usually find this out within a few weeks of starting here, we do something a bit different. Those kids are usually 4 or 5 years old. They will help me set up the younger ones for nap, then help me clean up kitchen and play room "as quiet as they can". One 5 year old I had played peekaboo with the newborn I had that obviously was not on a schedule. Then after I am done cleaning I explained to the kids who were helping me out, that it was time for everyone even me to have quiet time. They would get their mat and lay down, and I think it helped because they considered themselves older, and having a privilage was nice to their self esteem. Most times those kids fell asleep, even if for an hour, but woke up refreshed and proud.

I hope that it all works out for you, and you can either get a system that works for your child and provider. I really suggest the "helping" with the older kids. It has helped me alot in the last 10 years!

[bre1313]

If it wasnt' for nap time I'd go bonkers! I have a child lay down for 20-30 minutes and if they are still awake they can get a few books to laydown with. After another 20 mintues they can color or put some puzzles together at the craft table. No fuss, you don't have to go to sleep, but you need to respect others that do need a nap.

[HeatherB]

Is this your buisness or their buisness? Your rules are your rules.. tell they parent that you offer her to read book quietly on the cot but she chooses to sleep. Let her sleep.

[Unregistered]

wow this was a heated discussion!!...and alot was said on both parts...

first off i am a mom of 4 kids (9-17 years old) and i will tell you they all needed and napped!!!

i am also a daycare provider IN AYLMER...Two 9 daycare kiddies...ages 20 months-5 years...AND ALL MY KIDDIES NAP OR AT LEAST REST...EACH DAY....

some days are harder than others...but THE GENRAL RULE IS IF THEY HAVE BEEN OUTSIDE ....THEY NAP....

WHEN THE CPE HAS BEEN IN DURING NAP TIME THEY ALWAYS COMMENT HOW WELL MY KIDDIES SLEEP....

I DO HAVE 1 LITTLE ONE (OFF TO SCHOOL THIS FALL) WHO FIGHTS HIS NAP AND WILL TRY AND DISTURB THE REST....HE IS MOVED TO ANOTHER AREA SO HE CAN NOT WAKE THE OTHERS...
EVEN HIM HE NEEDS A NAP OR IS WINNY....

as for $$$$ and holidays....YES IN QUEBEC WE CAN PUT IT INTO OUR CONTRACT....BUT THAT IS IF YOU ARE PRIVET...

ONCE YOU ARE SUBVENTED....THE PARENTS HAVE TO PAY THERE PORTION...BUT THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT PAY THERE PORTION....CURRENTLY WE ARE FIGHTING THIS...WE ARE WITH A UNION.....AND ARE WORKING ON MAKING THESE CHANGES...

GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR SITUATION.....AND I AM SAD TO HERE THAT YOU HAVE HAD TO HAVE 2 KIDS IN 2 DIFFRENT DAYCARES...ESPECIALY THAT YOU ARE RUNNING AROUND TILL 6 PM...NOT EASY ON ANYONE!!

[FrustratedMommy]

That is right, I forgot that the government doesn't pay their portion.

Both kids are in the same daycare now, that is why I am fighting so hard to keep them there.

The lady went on vacation for two weeks, and we put the kids in another daycare temporarily. My 3.5 year old slept very well, and now that she is back at the normal daycare she is sleeping again. It has been two weeks and she had one day where she was resistant to sleep. The lady says she has to stay in the room a long time with her, but I think she has gotten used to it now.

She is sleeping very well at home, although we have an odd day where she will play in her room rather than sleeping. I just worry that if she is resisting nap now, what will happen when she gets closer to 4. Hopefully by then she will be more emotionally mature and will be able to rest quietly without waking the others.

I also notice the days she complained that my little one didn't nap were rainy days where they didn't get outside. She is very good about taking them outside in the summer though. They walk 10 blocks to a park almost every day, and since my daughter is the oldest she walks while the other kids ride in the stroller.

[professionalmom]

WOW!!! I can't believe this! We are cleaning up after the daycare children- sweeping, doing dishes, cleaning off tables, highchairs, putting away toys, washing bibs, blankets, sometimes clothes, towels, washclothes, getting afternoon activity together, running copies, the list goes on and on with everything!!!!

Ditto, Ditto, Ditto!! But you forgot about PAPERWORK!! There is an infinite amount of paperwork that goes along with running any business, especially daycare. Just the food program that I am on, costs me 30-40 minutes a day because I have to report who I fed and what I fed them, each and every night. If they show up on Tuesday and Monday's meals are not recorded, I don't get reimbursement for that. Then there's taxes (keeping track of everything everyday so it doesn't take a week to do the taxes at tax time), reporting to DHS, reading updated laws, revising contracts and policies, etc. Then there's the curriculum planning! Just try to turn on a computer with the kids running about. And if you're open 12+ hours a day, then by the time you do the "housework" and paperwork after hours, you have spent 16 hours on daycare and ZERO on your own family.

[Lucy]

I am a parent of a 4 year old and to be honest, I am appalled at the comments made by some daycare providers on this message board. Wow. Ms. Sue: "It's not the child with the issue- it's the parents - as usual". How presumptuous and wrong you are. I am a teacher, and we are taught that the parents are the first and most important "teachers" of their children.

My son, even though he does not need a nap would always nap given the opportunity-- placed in a quiet dark room...of course he would. So would I. And this was the case at his in-home daycare. I spoke with the provider, whom he loved, and she was as stubborn as you all, and said all kids must rest for those two hours. Since he was the oldest child at daycare, she was UNWILLING to make an exception for him. And since he regularly fell asleep, she did not listen to me, and ASSUMED that I was WRONG and she was RIGHT.

When he was at home, he never napped and was fine. He would go to bed at a reasonable hour (8:00) and wake up around 7:00. When he would go to daycare and had a nap, he consistently said "I'm not tired! I'm not tired!" at night and would be up until 10:30. This was not due to my LACK of parenting skills or ability. He was TRULY not tired.

Turns out, I pulled him from his daycare which he loved for this VERY reason. He is now at Montessori preschool and flourishing. They do not require a nap and he is doing lovely, on a regular schedule and learning/playing for two extra hours instead of being forced to nap. I am so happy I made this decision.

Parents know best. And if you are unwilling to meet a reasonable request in the best interest of the child then you shouldn't be practicing daycare.

AMEN!!!!!! I am a home Daycare Provider, and I do NOT force naps on those who do not benefit from them. The little ones nap in bedrooms and the bigger ones play quiet games or visit my play yard. Why is that so hard? Why must Providers be so regimented and FORCE naps upon kids? Every kid is different. They have different needs. Providers, of all people, should recognize and respect this. Let the kids be individuals. Yes, there are exceptions. There are kids who will try to refuse, but they really do need one or else they are hellions. I'm speaking of the ones who genuinely do not benefit from a nap, and in fact stay up late because of it. It's not healthy. I so wish Providers would recognize this. As far as your break, I'm sure you have times where kids are playing independently when you can sit down with a cup of tea for 10 minutes. Or when most of them are napping and just your non-nappers are up, I'm sure you can find some time to clean your kitchen. The non-nappers are old enough to play for a time while you get your chores done. I just don't get it, and I never will.

[nannyde]

AMEN!!!!!! I am a home Daycare Provider, and I do NOT force naps on those who do not benefit from them. The little ones nap in bedrooms and the bigger ones play quiet games or visit my play yard. Why is that so hard? Why must Providers be so regimented and FORCE naps upon kids? Every kid is different. They have different needs. Providers, of all people, should recognize and respect this. Let the kids be individuals. Yes, there are exceptions. There are kids who will try to refuse, but they really do need one or else they are hellions. I'm speaking of the ones who genuinely do not benefit from a nap, and in fact stay up late because of it. It's not healthy. I so wish Providers would recognize this. As far as your break, I'm sure you have times where kids are playing independently when you can sit down with a cup of tea for 10 minutes. Or when most of them are napping and just your non-nappers are up, I'm sure you can find some time to clean your kitchen. The non-nappers are old enough to play for a time while you get your chores done. I just don't get it, and I never will.

Why are you assuming a provider would force a child to nap? I don't provide care to children who don't need a full afternoon nap. I'm not FORCING anyone. As soon as they have outgrown nap time they leave.
The "individuals" and "exceptions" don't attend my day care.

I "recognize" that there are children of ALL ages.. from birth to age five that don't need sleep. I hear that all the time from the parents. I BELIEVE them and I BELIEVE you when you say it. I agree. I just don't provide day care to those kids. See?

I won't accept a ten minute break here and there. I want a full two and a half hour break every day in my twelve hour day. I "need" that. I'm an "individual" and an "exception" that I have to have a break. Why is it that you can understand that a child may need "individual" and "exception" but you don't believe the adult may need the same consideration?

I say "let the providers be individuals".

[AmandasFCC]

AMEN!!!!!! I am a home Daycare Provider, and I do NOT force naps on those who do not benefit from them. The little ones nap in bedrooms and the bigger ones play quiet games or visit my play yard. Why is that so hard? Why must Providers be so regimented and FORCE naps upon kids? Every kid is different. They have different needs. Providers, of all people, should recognize and respect this. Let the kids be individuals. Yes, there are exceptions. There are kids who will try to refuse, but they really do need one or else they are hellions. I'm speaking of the ones who genuinely do not benefit from a nap, and in fact stay up late because of it. It's not healthy. I so wish Providers would recognize this. As far as your break, I'm sure you have times where kids are playing independently when you can sit down with a cup of tea for 10 minutes. Or when most of them are napping and just your non-nappers are up, I'm sure you can find some time to clean your kitchen. The non-nappers are old enough to play for a time while you get your chores done. I just don't get it, and I never will.

I would love to send non-nappers out into the yard to play but that's against licensing regs here. I have to be on the same floor as sleeping children AT ALL TIMES. That means no going to clean my kitchen for me so I get to do that while the kids eat. And obviously kids can't go outside if I can't directly supervise them.

I'd love to let them play quietly in the playroom while the nappers napped. I've tried. It doesn't work.

I don't think any of us who require a quiet time during the day are "forcing" kids who don't benefit from a nap to nap. We are enforcing a quiet time, where kids need to lay down and rest, NOT necessarily sleep. It is in my licensing regs that I must allow a quiet environment away from any activity for children under 5 to nap for 2 hours.

Please don't jump down everyone's throat because they require a naptime. If you don't, great, that works for you. It's NOT what would work for a lot of us.

If the parents aren't happy with it, they can move along to the next provider who don't have little ones who NEED their sleep.

[Vesta]

This is the song that never ends.......

[fctjc1979]

This is the song that never ends.......

Yes, it goes on and on, my friend.......

[Janet]

OK, Joyce, it's fine for you to choose to let your kids skip naptime if you'd like, but it's my choice to NOT let them skip their naptime. They don't have to sleep. No one is forced to sleep, they just have to lay quietly. As far as letting kids go outside to play during nap, that is not something that I let even older kids do on their own. I always have my daycare kids in my line of sight and I never let them play outside without supervision. I don't have a single parent complaint regarding naptime policies. I don't have any kids that don't nap at naptime either. By the time naptime rolls around, they are all so tired that they are trying to go down for nap before it's even naptime yet. Also, some states have a required rest time for children under a certain age. My kids that are under 6 years old are required to have a rest time on a daily basis. No exceptions, no special cases.

[Lucy]

Why are you assuming a provider would force a child to nap? I don't provide care to children who don't need a full afternoon nap. I'm not FORCING anyone. As soon as they have outgrown nap time they leave.
The "individuals" and "exceptions" don't attend my day care.

I "recognize" that there are children of ALL ages.. from birth to age five that don't need sleep. I hear that all the time from the parents. I BELIEVE them and I BELIEVE you when you say it. I agree. I just don't provide day care to those kids. See?

I won't accept a ten minute break here and there. I want a full two and a half hour break every day in my twelve hour day. I "need" that. I'm an "individual" and an "exception" that I have to have a break. Why is it that you can understand that a child may need "individual" and "exception" but you don't believe the adult may need the same consideration?

I say "let the providers be individuals".

This wasn't directed at you. Sorry if you thought so. Obviously if the nap issue is covered in your interview and you only accept those who NEED the nap, you are not forcing anything. I feel that some do force it, however. That is based on various comments I have read here over the months. Nobody specific. As to the issue of our breaks, I'm sorry you don't agree, but I just think this is our job and little breaks here and there should be sufficient. Yes, every adult is an individual and therefore has different needs than others, but we are adults and should be able to handle a 10-hr day with several small breaks and downtime. It's just my opinion. Thanks for listening!

[QualiTcare]

This wasn't directed at you. Sorry if you thought so. Obviously if the nap issue is covered in your interview and you only accept those who NEED the nap, you are not forcing anything. I feel that some do force it, however. That is based on various comments I have read here over the months. Nobody specific. As to the issue of our breaks, I'm sorry you don't agree, but I just think this is our job and little breaks here and there should be sufficient. Yes, every adult is an individual and therefore has different needs than others, but we are adults and should be able to handle a 10-hr day with several small breaks and downtime. It's just my opinion. Thanks for listening!

i agree - there are plenty of times for breaks throughout the day. if you were working outside of the home would you be able to do your laundry or clean the kitchen, OR have a 2-2.5 or 3 hour break even if you work 12 hours? NOOO!

i woke up a little boy the other day because he had slept 2.5 hours and skipped breakfast. his mom said i could've let him sleep and i told her i didn't want him staying up all night. parents know when you let them sleep. my son hardly goes to his grandma's anymore cus it's OBVIOUS after he's been to her house - he wants to stay up all night. youre right about there being providers that force naps - and there are ones that get downright mean about it because they think that's their break time. i've always heard that the kids don't have to sleep if they lay quietly, look at a book, etc., but i've never seen it. what i have seen is kids being told to go to sleep and threatened if they don't.

[Unregistered]

I have a 4 year old who has to lay on a mat for 1 and a half hours at her preschool/day care center. She can't get her little body to rest/sleep. The teachers reward the resting sleeping children with stickers. So every day my daughter comes home crying thinking she did something wrong because she gets no reward. Every child is different. To force a 4 year old to lay on a mat for that long doing nothing is bizarre to me. Could someone please post the Maryland state regulation that says child care workers must force a child to lay on a mat for 2 hours.

I think I read that regulation at one point and it states that a child care center must offer a nap area and a rest period but it is up to the child if he/she wants to nap or rest. I understand the need for quiet time but please this is crazy the way you think you can force children to sleep or sit still on a mat when their bodies are not able to do so.
Stop and really think about the power struggle you are creating. The feeling of shame you are creating in these children when you are telling them to do this and if they don't something is wrong with them.
You are interrupting the regulation all wrong. This regulation was to support and understand the needs of the child not to give the care giver a break.

Read and reread the regulation with each individual child in mind. Then please, please listen to the parents who knows more about their own child then the person in government that wrote a regulation that is being misused.

"Quite time" is needed for both provider and children being cared for however your child should also be rewarded for being quite during this time also. I agree making every child sleep is a power trip and only creates more exhaughtion for the child and provider. Not allowing other good and rewarded options is sad to see for children whom have outgrown a routine nap.

[Unregistered]

I am a parent of a 4 year old and to be honest, I am appalled at the comments made by some daycare providers on this message board. Wow. Ms. Sue: "It's not the child with the issue- it's the parents - as usual". How presumptuous and wrong you are. I am a teacher, and we are taught that the parents are the first and most important "teachers" of their children.

My son, even though he does not need a nap would always nap given the opportunity-- placed in a quiet dark room...of course he would. So would I. And this was the case at his in-home daycare. I spoke with the provider, whom he loved, and she was as stubborn as you all, and said all kids must rest for those two hours. Since he was the oldest child at daycare, she was UNWILLING to make an exception for him. And since he regularly fell asleep, she did not listen to me, and ASSUMED that I was WRONG and she was RIGHT.

When he was at home, he never napped and was fine. He would go to bed at a reasonable hour (8:00) and wake up around 7:00. When he would go to daycare and had a nap, he consistently said "I'm not tired! I'm not tired!" at night and would be up until 10:30. This was not due to my LACK of parenting skills or ability. He was TRULY not tired.

Turns out, I pulled him from his daycare which he loved for this VERY reason. He is now at Montessori preschool and flourishing. They do not require a nap and he is doing lovely, on a regular schedule and learning/playing for two extra hours instead of being forced to nap. I am so happy I made this decision.

Parents know best. And if you are unwilling to meet a reasonable request in the best interest of the child then you shouldn't be practicing daycare.

Sounds just like my son, except the preschool/childcare was trying to get my son to nap 3 hours. He is now in Montessori too and loves it. I am finding that good preschool teachers/caregivers are difficult to find.

[FrustratedMommy]

Well, it has finally happened. My 3.5 year old (4 in Jan) has been kicked out of her daycare because after 2 hours of laying on her mat, she just can't fall asleep. Are there any subsidized daycares in Aylmer that do not require their children to sleep? I also have an almost 2 year old. I would like to keep them in the same place, but I guess that might be impossible. I am so discouraged right now. I've called one place on magarderie, but there was only 1 available at the moment. She hasn't given us a time limit, but she is getting a 5 month old baby soon, and I am sure she is anxious to be rid of the older child. She really wants to keep the baby of course, since she loves babies. Please let me know if anybody has any space. We are near Champlain Park.

[Unregistered]

I understand most of you daycare providers need "a break" from the kids, but children should not be taught, raised, like a cookie cutout, I too have a 4 1/2 year old who does fall asleep at her preschool who is allowed to sleep 2 hours and then when we put her in bed at 8:30 every night (with no tv by the way as we don't allow any toys, tv. No stimulants in their room only in their playroom) she will sit in her bed for an hour quietly and just can not fall asleep. When I have her she will sleep for an hour and then she goes to be at 8:30 the minute she hits her head on the pillow. She also wakes up no matter what time she goes to sleep by the way at 7:00 am like clock work.

At this age every pediatrician I have talked to agrees each child is different and should not be treated the same, so just because a daycare provided needs "a break" is not in my book reason to make a child sleep for 2 hours, it is not healthy, there bodies no what they need. To assume it is the parents fault or just because other 4 year olds do it your way, doesn't mean it is right!

[QualiTcare]

i didn't make the kids nap at a certain time - or at all if they didn't want/need to. i only had 4 kids though so i didn't have to run like a "center." i was able to be flexible with meal times and pretty much cater to each child's/parent's individual needs. it was something i wanted to do because i got frustrated when my own children were in daycare and were forced to nap or came home starving. i also didn't go outside if it was too cold because i didn't have to abide by the daycare standards. of course, i charged more than the avg. rate in my area because in order to do this, i couldn't keep as many children, but the parents i had valued the way i operated so it wasn't a problem. if cost is a concern though -you are probably going to be looking into centers where they have a lot of children at one time. when that's the case, they aren't going to fool with one kid who doesn't want to nap. it's usually someone getting paid minimum wage and it's a miracle they even show up.

[Unregistered]

i run a family daycare and in the state of maryland it is a requirement that the children get a 2 hour nap/rest period. I give all the kids a nap from 12:30-2:30 -ish. I have one parent who told her 4 year old, not to nap at my house anymore. I do not insist that she sleep, but lay down quietly. She is allowed to read books, etc., as long as she is quiet for the other kids. She is the 1st one asleep everyday. She falls asleep within 5 minutes of laying down. Her parents have always allowed her to stay awake at night till 10:30-11:30 from the time she was an infant. Now they think she is staying awake that late because of the nap. I need to add, she is only here part-time, but goes to bed everynight that late. Every child i have ever watched including my own, have taken naps and still go to bed by 8-8:30. I feel that the parents are blaming me and my nap policy for their child not going to bed at night, when i feel it is their lack of dicipline on getting their child on a decent schedule. Any opinions would be appreciated, however, with all the new centers opening around us, i cannot afford to tick people off. In my area, alot of home providers are struggling and i know they can go just about anywhere. you is doing what you have to run your place i use to work in a daycare and the parents blam you for ever thing they do. Look you have to tell the parent that the rules is that ever child most take a nape ever day or just dont move read a book. Look if they dont like your rules then they need to find a new provider because you dont need know body to be tick off ever time they pick up they kids just dont for get you have feeling just like them. My 3 kids take naps ever day and still going to bed ever night on time that parent just wanted to say some thing because kids can take a nap and still go to bed on time

[amyro]

you is doing what you have to run your place i use to work in a daycare and the parents blam you for ever thing they do. Look you have to tell the parent that the rules is that ever child most take a nape ever day or just dont move read a book. Look if they dont like your rules then they need to find a new provider because you dont need know body to be tick off ever time they pick up they kids just dont for get you have feeling just like them. My 3 kids take naps ever day and still going to bed ever night on time that parent just wanted to say some thing because kids can take a nap and still go to bed on time

Ditto I agree with you on this one

[Unregistered]

Wow as a parent my fears about how childcare providers assume they know more about your child than you do have been confirmed. I have gone rounds and rounds with three daycares insisting that my 4 1/2 year old no longer needs to nap but I am only his mother what do I know. Now before you all say I just don't know how to put my child to bed you should all know on the weekends when he hasn't taken a nap I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM PUTTING MY CHILD TO BED, he is in bed by 8 no problem. His current center has a nap time from 1-3 or when the wake up. 2 hours is way too long and 3 is way too late to be waking up. I honestly would have no problem with a 30 min nap at say noon but anything more than that is excessive. Just because a child will go to sleep doesn't mean they need the sleep. If you put me on a cot and turned off the lights in the middle of the day at my work I would nod off too, and you know what I would be kept up when it was time for me to go to sleep. For those of you that won't wake up a child, shame on you I too have arrived at 4pm to find my child just woken up because he fell asleep at the end of naptime, gosh he must have finally nodded off out of the bordom of expecting a 4 yr old to sit quietly in the dark for 2 hours and "read". I guess those of you that require by contract that you get a 2 hour break in the middle of the day better stick to running your own daycare because no other jobs out there get to take 2 hours off in the middle of theday. Also if you would like to know as a parent what annoys us about daycare workers is that somehow you act like we work for you and we are to do as you say, well I hate to tell you YOU WORK FOR ME FOLLOW THE RULES I HAVE SET FORTH FOR MY CHILD OR I WILL FIRE YOU

[Crystal]

Wow as a parent my fears about how childcare providers assume they know more about your child than you do have been confirmed. I have gone rounds and rounds with three daycares insisting that my 4 1/2 year old no longer needs to nap but I am only his mother what do I know. Now before you all say I just don't know how to put my child to bed you should all know on the weekends when he hasn't taken a nap I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM PUTTING MY CHILD TO BED, he is in bed by 8 no problem. His current center has a nap time from 1-3 or when the wake up. 2 hours is way too long and 3 is way too late to be waking up. I honestly would have no problem with a 30 min nap at say noon but anything more than that is excessive. Just because a child will go to sleep doesn't mean they need the sleep. If you put me on a cot and turned off the lights in the middle of the day at my work I would nod off too, and you know what I would be kept up when it was time for me to go to sleep. For those of you that won't wake up a child, shame on you I too have arrived at 4pm to find my child just woken up because he fell asleep at the end of naptime, gosh he must have finally nodded off out of the bordom of expecting a 4 yr old to sit quietly in the dark for 2 hours and "read". I guess those of you that require by contract that you get a 2 hour break in the middle of the day better stick to running your own daycare because no other jobs out there get to take 2 hours off in the middle of theday. Also if you would like to know as a parent what annoys us about daycare workers is that somehow you act like we work for you and we are to do as you say, well I hate to tell you YOU WORK FOR ME FOLLOW THE RULES I HAVE SET FORTH FOR MY CHILD OR I WILL FIRE YOU

Well, first, let me say, there are providers out there who WILL work with you on your child's schedule. However, YOU need to find the provider who, from the beginning, agrees to not nap your child. Don't wait until he has been there for awhile and then complain about it. I am one of those providers who would be willing to work with a parent on this, but only if I am asked and treated in a respectful manner.

Now, to an extent, I agree that you should be able to make some of the decisions for your child....especially something like sleep schedule, within reason. However, this comment "well I hate to tell you YOU WORK FOR ME FOLLOW THE RULES I HAVE SET FORTH FOR MY CHILD OR I WILL FIRE YOU" Is WAY off base. You are not your providers employer, and you do not have the right to dictate every "rule" that you set forth....that would be completely unreasonable. What if we did this for EVERY parent who walked through our doors? We would go absolutley crazy trying to meet the demands of numerous parents who do not understand the dynamics of group care. We would then end up out of business, because it would drive us to the point of hating our work.

If you want a caregiver for your child that strictly adheres to "the rules that you set forth" then I suggest you find a Nanny who will work in your home. Whom you will also pay taxes for, unemployment insurance for, workers comp for. THEN you are an employer.

[SilverSabre25]

Well, first, let me say, there are providers out there who WILL work with you on your child's schedule. However, YOU need to find the provider who, from the beginning, agrees to not nap your child. Don't wait until he has been there for awhile and then complain about it. I am one of those providers who would be willing to work with a parent on this, but only if I am asked and treated in a respectful manner.

Now, to an extent, I agree that you should be able to make some of the decisions for your child....especially something like sleep schedule, within reason. However, this comment "well I hate to tell you YOU WORK FOR ME FOLLOW THE RULES I HAVE SET FORTH FOR MY CHILD OR I WILL FIRE YOU" Is WAY off base. You are not your providers employer, and you do not have the right to dictate every "rule" that you set forth....that would be completely unreasonable. What if we did this for EVERY parent who walked through our doors? We would go absolutley crazy trying to meet the demands of numerous parents who do not understand the dynamics of group care. We would then end up out of business, because it would drive us to the point of hating our work.

If you want a caregiver for your child that strictly adheres to "the rules that you set forth" then I suggest you find a Nanny who will work in your home. Whom you will also pay taxes for, unemployment insurance for, workers comp for. THEN you are an employer.

What Crystal said.

Furthermore, most states do have rules stating that all children MUST have a rest period during the day. Even for school agers. Most (all?) states even mandate how long that rest period is to be. In my state, we HAVE to provide that quiet time, but children are NOT required to sleep. Kids that don't sleep (in my care) have other options--books, puzzles, coloring quietly, watching a show (the only TV time we have usually), and possibly other quiet options depending on the age of the child in question. If you don't like the options your center is using, find another one. Centers, on the whole, tend to be a lot more inflexible in their options than, say, a family child care.

We (as a family child care provider) do NOT get a "two hour break" in the middle of the day. During that time, we are eating our own lunch (maybe), cleaning, preparing the afternoon's activities, doing paperwork, lesson and activity planning, cleaning, documenting the morning's activities, cleaning, and maybe, if everyone naps the whole time (which is rare) we have time to catch five minutes to ourselves to kick back and relax.

If you truly want everything in your control, get a nanny. Or stay home with your child yourself.

[schooladmin]

Most experts say that a child can definitely do without a nap by age 4. I am an school administrator, who has worked in schools, daycares, and after-school programs and I can safely say that I agree with the experts on this one. Daycare providers and schools are in existence to assist the parent in either care and/or education of the child. I understand that daycare providers need breaks because they usually work at home alone. But mandating that a child must go to sleep is not assisting the parent when they need to get the child to sleep at 8:00pm for at least an 11 hr. sleep period. If you leave a child down for more than an hour of course he will fall asleep eventually but that could be because of pure boredom. I believe that any child after age 4 who is taking more than a 30 nap is being set up for being lazy later in life. So if your child sleeps 11 hrs. at night and then take a 2 hour nap during the day, then you should question that parenting also. Because after all we are training the children to function in the world that we live in. not some make believe world where they can sleep half their lives.

I now send my 4 year old to 5 hr preschool program in town and he complain of having to sleep right after meals he says that it makes him feel bad. Of course these teachers also give rewards for the ones that go to sleep. I cannot see the sense in this program. The school opens at 8:30 and the children start routines at 9:00am. Somewhere between10-12 they have a 45 Min play on the playground and eat lunch and are down for a nap until I pick him up at 2:00pm. And the saddest thing about this program is that there are two teachers per class. Everyday he struggles to go to sleep and he really ends up not going to sleep until 11:00 and he moans and groans the whole time because he wants to do something. And it is even worst if it not his karate or soccer day. My poor baby much rather go to the gym with me in their daycare then to the preschool program. I am thankful I have the flexibility with my work to change my schedule around and work out a better plan for him and so I try to pick him up before nap. This ensures that he is fed, showered and in the bed by 8:00pm without any hassle.

I believe if a child get plenty of exercise and activity during the day, that it does not matter how bad the parenting is at home that child will be down for the count by 7:45 unless his home environment have people hanging from the chandeliers. And I have know cases where this was true.

So Daycare providers please stop forcing sleep time for children 3.5 and 4. Let's start acclimating them to the real world. Change do not happen over night. We as parents and school administrator and their future teachers need your help.

[Unregistered]

I find this whole thread fascinating and very relevant to what I'm going through right now. Though I understand the need to require rest in the preschools, my five year old hasn't napped in two years and really needs to have provisions made for him at naptime.

I was horrified to learn that during this two hour required rest time at his preschool, he wasn't even allowed to read books because it apparently caused many of the other kids to want books and therefore disrupted the class. (though, only about 40% of the kids in the class nap). This is a large daycare facility with smaller rooms and 16 kids crammed on the floor and forced to rest for two hours. When I enrolled, I was told there would be accommodations made for those children who do not nap. (Like taking them to quiet room). But they have since stopped that because they don't have the staff to take care of the separate group of kids and still cover lunch and break time.

The school is now agreeing to allowing the non-nappers to have a book after 60 minutes. I still think that is WAY too long. My poor son is beginning to hate school because of this. He's too young to start not wanting to go to school!

I guess I will have no choice but to pull him from this school, which is so sad because I really love their program and convenience in location. Such a frustrating situation.

[squareone]

I find this whole thread fascinating and very relevant to what I'm going through right now. Though I understand the need to require rest in the preschools, my five year old hasn't napped in two years and really needs to have provisions made for him at naptime.

I was horrified to learn that during this two hour required rest time at his preschool, he wasn't even allowed to read books because it apparently caused many of the other kids to want books and therefore disrupted the class. (though, only about 40% of the kids in the class nap). This is a large daycare facility with smaller rooms and 16 kids crammed on the floor and forced to rest for two hours. When I enrolled, I was told there would be accommodations made for those children who do not nap. (Like taking them to quiet room). But they have since stopped that because they don't have the staff to take care of the separate group of kids and still cover lunch and break time.

The school is now agreeing to allowing the non-nappers to have a book after 60 minutes. I still think that is WAY too long. My poor son is beginning to hate school because of this. He's too young to start not wanting to go to school!

I guess I will have no choice but to pull him from this school, which is so sad because I really love their program and convenience in location. Such a frustrating situation.

This is a super old thread but I am going to respond.
First, a 5-year old would not be required to nap at my house. They would be given quiet activities to do at nap time completely away from the younger ones. This would be the case as long as they can play quietly and independently. If this is not the case, then they have to put toys away and read books only. Anyone under 5 though requires a rest period here. I don't have it as a written rule but I do my best to weed out the non-nappers during the interview process. If I find later that a child doesn't nap, they still have to lay and rest. And yes, in my house they might have to lay up to an hour on occasion. Through trial and error I've learned not to let any child up until the last child has fallen asleep. This can take anywhere from 40-min to an hour some days. I do this for the exact reason that you stated - if the others see one kid doing something other than resting - they will ALL want to do it and no one will nap. Toddlers and peschoolers who have not had a nap are not a fun bunch.

Many people/facilities will SAY they make accommodations but won't actually do it. They may want to but can't due to staffing or other concerns. Since your son is 5, I am going to guess that he just missed the cutoff age to start school this year. If you and your son like all the other aspects of this preschool then I would consider staying and dealing with it until he starts kindergarten. It's only a couple more months. If there are other things that you don't like about the preschool then pull him.

[Unregistered]

This is a super old thread but I am going to respond.
First, a 5-year old would not be required to nap at my house. They would be given quiet activities to do at nap time completely away from the younger ones. This would be the case as long as they can play quietly and independently. If this is not the case, then they have to put toys away and read books only. Anyone under 5 though requires a rest period here. I don't have it as a written rule but I do my best to weed out the non-nappers during the interview process. If I find later that a child doesn't nap, they still have to lay and rest. And yes, in my house they might have to lay up to an hour on occasion. Through trial and error I've learned not to let any child up until the last child has fallen asleep. This can take anywhere from 40-min to an hour some days. I do this for the exact reason that you stated - if the others see one kid doing something other than resting - they will ALL want to do it and no one will nap. Toddlers and peschoolers who have not had a nap are not a fun bunch.

Many people/facilities will SAY they make accommodations but won't actually do it. They may want to but can't due to staffing or other concerns. Since your son is 5, I am going to guess that he just missed the cutoff age to start school this year. If you and your son like all the other aspects of this preschool then I would consider staying and dealing with it until he starts kindergarten. It's only a couple more months. If there are other things that you don't like about the preschool then pull him.

Thanks for the response. I'm struggling with the decision to bother changing schools for just a few months and your feedback helps. Yes, he *just* turned five so he starts Kindergarten in the fall. There are little things here and there that trouble me about the pre-school (ie lack of good communication to the parents) but nothing major. And that I feel they told me all the great things they do at the school just to sell me on it, but in reality, it doesn't work well for their business. Therefore the children suffer at naptime to accommodate for the teacher's break time.

And what I struggle with is that here in the Bay Area, CA, there is such a large number of offerings that I know I could easily find something more nurturing for him. But I'm afraid the change for him might not be worth it. But my heart breaks just picturing him starring at the ceiling all that time.

[Unregistered]

Honestly -

I have horrible memories of this as a child myself. It is against state regulations in as many states as I felt like checking - quiet time, yes, making a child who is awake lie down more than 30 minutes - illegal and abusive.

Further-

Break time is when you have an assistant come in and cover - one who is background checked and tested. If you are self employed and don't cover yourself for breaks, that is simply unwise- and you should not punish innocent children or cheat their parents for it.

Cleaning and maintenance and cooking dinner are not what you are being paid for. You are being paid to care for children - those who need a 2 hour nap and those who don't.

[squareone]

Honestly -

I have horrible memories of this as a child myself. It is against state regulations in as many states as I felt like checking - quiet time, yes, making a child who is awake lie down more than 30 minutes - illegal and abusive.

Further-

Break time is when you have an assistant come in and cover - one who is background checked and tested. If you are self employed and don't cover yourself for breaks, that is simply unwise- and you should not punish innocent children or cheat their parents for it.

Cleaning and maintenance and cooking dinner are not what you are being paid for. You are being paid to care for children - those who need a 2 hour nap and those who don't.

Punish children? Cheat their parents? Call it what you want to call it...this is how we do it here. My parents know how I run things here and have no problem with it. At present, all of my dckids are nappers so I am not faced with this issue.

And yes, cleaning and maintenance and cooking dinner IS what I am being paid for. In order for the children that I care for to remain healthy and safe I must clean and sanitize my home. I must do maintanance to keep it in good order and repair so that no one gets hurt. I must cook healthy, balanced dinners that are often served as lunch to the daycare kids the next day.

You should consider registering. I believe that I have seen quite a few of your unregistered posts tonight and it seems you are just stirring the pot.

[skandij]

Well, I registered and I was the one who posted #123 & #125. I fully understand the need for Daycare workers to have their breaks and to take time to catch up. Gosh, as a Mom, I sometimes stick the kids in front of the TV for 30 minutes just to try and do housework too.

My only concern is that my child is left for a full hour (a lot of times it was TWO hours) deprived of any books or activities as to not cause a disruption to any other kids who were either sleeping, or to discourage the non-nappers to chat and play. I just find that a full hour of doing NOTHING is too excessive and not developmentally appropriate. I would ask if there are any adults out there who could stand laying on a floor mat and starring at a ceiling for a full hour. Now imagine what that is like for a four/five year old when time passes so much slower for them.

I know now this school is not the right fit for our family. What's unfortunate is we were told non-nappers would be given quiet activities to do when we enrolled.

[DCMomOf3]

I know now this school is not the right fit for our family. What's unfortunate is we were told non-nappers would be given quiet activities to do when we enrolled.

I am pleased to see you register. :)

I think if a parent knows the provider's method and agrees to it/with it, there should be no debate. If the caregiver is not doing what you contracted for/agreed too, you have every right to be dissatisfied.

[nannyde]

Well, I registered and I was the one who posted #123 & #125. I fully understand the need for Daycare workers to have their breaks and to take time to catch up. Gosh, as a Mom, I sometimes stick the kids in front of the TV for 30 minutes just to try and do housework too.

My only concern is that my child is left for a full hour (a lot of times it was TWO hours) deprived of any books or activities as to not cause a disruption to any other kids who were either sleeping, or to discourage the non-nappers to chat and play. I just find that a full hour of doing NOTHING is too excessive and not developmentally appropriate. I would ask if there are any adults out there who could stand laying on a floor mat and starring at a ceiling for a full hour. Now imagine what that is like for a four/five year old when time passes so much slower for them.

I know now this school is not the right fit for our family. What's unfortunate is we were told non-nappers would be given quiet activities to do when we enrolled.

Glad to see your register.

Did you consider offering to pay for a staff assistant for him during nap? If you went to the Director and said that you would fully pay for a staff assistant I think you would be met with a hug and a "when do you want to start".

[Unregistered]

Frustrated Mommy, I feel really horrible that you say this provider "hates" toddlers and is always complaining about your child:( Maybe your child isn't sleeping because the atmosphere isn't comfortable at all for her? Unless you are exaagerating daycare lady's feelings, I would not want my child anywhere that she is hated, simply because of her age!

I completely agree and kept reading to see who would finally say it. In my opinion it is irresponsible of the parent to put the child in an environment that does not like the child. Period. The provider was direct with the parent about their preference for younger children. Now the parent is complaining that she prefers her 18 month old?! The daycare lady told the parent this fact UP FRONT! The parent is lucky this is the only issue the 3 year old is having. How could you put your child in an environment that does not like her?! This is your kid! Why are parents so desensitized?!

I am a parent and a provider. I have 2 boys, 4 and 2. My 4 year old goes to half day pre-k everyday, comes home at 12, eats lunch and then naps from 1-3. The bedtime routine starts at 7:30 with lights out at 8:15 pm. On the odd day he does not need a nap he reads in bed. No sleep issues. None.

The 3 year olds problem is not napping. The problem is she is forced to endure in an environment where she is not wanted or welcome. Obviously, refusing to nap is her attempt to get the parent's attention. Dear parent, please show your child some love and respect and find a more loving caring situation for her.

[Unregistered]

well I hate to tell you YOU WORK FOR ME FOLLOW THE RULES I HAVE SET FORTH FOR MY CHILD OR I WILL FIRE YOU[/QUOTE]

Perhaps you are referring to a Nanny? We are not them. In order to make a statement like that you also have to cough up 500 - 800 dollars per week. Not the 140-200 you are paying.

[Unregistered]

It's really quite simple, my house, my policies, my rules.......if they do not work for you this is not the place to enroll your child. I have a home daycare with 5-6 children ages 2-5 who nap from 1-3 daily. They are all asleep within 10 min of laying down and parents have no bedtime issues. Kids need sleep. Bottom line, if the policies set forth by the provider do not work for you, don't enroll. You are no my "boss" and cannot fire me lol, you can certainly disenroll your child from care but I will not change my policies for any parent. If you cannot find a child care setting that works for you then you need a nanny.

[Unregistered]

For the last six weeks, my 4 year old daughter has been not taking her nap at daycare. I keep asking the teacher what has changed and I get no answers. She won't even stay on her mat for quiet time. I have tried everything- I send her with books, colors, paper, headphones for music- and she just refuses. Something changed in the classroom and I do not know how to help her. She takes naps on weekends- no arguments or anything. She knows it is quiet time and she lays on her bed and falls asleep withing 20-30 minutes- she has been like that for about 2 years. I do not know what to do about napping at school- the teachers only complain and do not try to get to the root of the problem. She likes going to school, so I do not want to take her out, but something is going on. I have already taken away her activities at night as punishment and if she does nap she gets rewarded. I have tried keeping her up late and waking her up early, but that does not help. I am out of ideas. Last week was spring break and instead of 28 kids in the class, there were 15; so she napped everyday. But now this week, everyone is back and she has not napped or behaved at naptime. Help- I do not know what to do.

[MrDon]

Been a long and drawn out thread. My wife has an in home day care and I telecommute. So yes I am home as well.

The policy here is NAP time ranges from 12:30 ~ 3:00 depending on the daily activities. I have in 11 years only seen 1 child not take a nap. All have gone down without a fuss and gotten up by 3:00.

Problem began when one family moved into a new home, the infant twins had to sleep with the mother & father while the nursery was being put together. The nursery has taken about 3 months to finish. During this time the 3 year old began to wake up in the middle of the at night and join the family in the master bedroom at 3 am.

This habit has been going on for nearly 3 months. The parents are now requesting that the 3 year old NOT NAP so as to sleep through the night.

The child is so tired that he can't stay awake, but the parents are demanding my wife's assistance in keeping the child from his NAP.

Clearly the parent knows best.

[Unregistered]

I am very surprised to hear daycare providers speak this way in a public forum.

I am the parent of a 3 1/2 yr old who does not need a nap. On weekends, she is quite happy and content, goes to bed at 8-8:30pm tops, getting up at the same time as we would on weekdays when we go to daycare, 7:30am ish.

Yet on weeknights, I cannot get her to sleep. This is not a question of discipline, as I have no issue on the weekends when she does not take a nap. The only difference is the daycare nap of approx 2 hours. She usually falls asleep around 10:30 - 11pm. Almost exactly 2 hours later...see the link!

I find your comments on parents to be generalizations that are not helpful to parents and children. Some children may need a nap while others do not...you shoudl be able to adapt your practices to these facts.

Would YOU work a 10.5 hour day with NO breaks? What if you could have a break, but your coworker threw a fit if you took one, because it was inconvenient to him? No, kids should not be forced to sleep, but a rest time. Yes.

[Unregistered]

At Frustrated Mommy: First mistake was putting your toddler with someone who didn't take them. You should have said-that is fine I will keep looking or leave your child where she was and put the baby were she would be taken. Your provider also should have been more strong and just said no. Is your daughter the only non-infant there? If so she probably isn't being given enough stimulation-activities,crafts, pre-school things, outdoor time. She should be with children her own age. Also if she is going to sleep when you get her home and then going to bed a little bit later she probably isn't sleeping very well because she isn't tired. My biggest advice is to have her around children her own age and just plain tire her out! You already went through this with your youngest-someone who wouldn't take toddlers-why do it with your oldest? Is your husband on board with any of this. Is there anyway he could take her to childcare? I know if I don't get a break during the day my family pays for it later because I'm so mentally and physically exhausted by 6 at night that I don't want to do anything-dinner, laundry, clean-up. I just want to go to bed.

[Unregistered]

Why are you assuming a provider would force a child to nap? I don't provide care to children who don't need a full afternoon nap. I'm not FORCING anyone. As soon as they have outgrown nap time they leave.
The "individuals" and "exceptions" don't attend my day care.

I "recognize" that there are children of ALL ages.. from birth to age five that don't need sleep. I hear that all the time from the parents. I BELIEVE them and I BELIEVE you when you say it. I agree. I just don't provide day care to those kids. See?

I won't accept a ten minute break here and there. I want a full two and a half hour break every day in my twelve hour day. I "need" that. I'm an "individual" and an "exception" that I have to have a break. Why is it that you can understand that a child may need "individual" and "exception" but you don't believe the adult may need the same consideration?

I say "let the providers be individuals".

I'm surprised this works. I wouldn't take my child anywhere that I knew she had to leave once she quit napping. Kids quit napping at all different ages. I also would never tell a DCF that they were done because DCK didn't sleep. Really?

[Unregistered]

I have a three year old who struggles to go to sleep after a nap at daycare. Please note that she arises at 7:00 a.m., an goes to sleep at 8:00 p.m., without a nap. The process to get her to sleep is the same that I have implemented since she was eighteen months; pajamas, quite time, brush our teeth, say our prayers and then lay quitely (no TV, outside noise, talking, etc.) However, when she does take a nap at daycare and wakes up at 2:00, she is cranky during the evening and does not go to sleep until 11:30 p.m. During the weekends I have a rule that she does have to lay down for quite time. I work a full time job, as well as my husband, with a small baby. When I am working my full time job, I do not get a 2-3 hour break of silence. Please read on Kids Health (or talk to a pediatrician) on how much sleep a toddler/preschooler needs before letting a child sleep until 4. A child needs structure and if he/she is falling alseep at your home/center until 4 there is definitely a problem with structure. Try putting the shoes on the other foot (because I have done both) and see which is easier; working a full time job with a child who doesn't go to sleep because the provider lets them sleep all day because it is easier, or being a provider who lets kids sleep 2-3 hours while they have a chance to catch up on laundry, dishes, planning, etc. When my child stays up until 11:30 p.m., me and my husband still have to play catch up on everyday duties and responsibilities. Really?

[Meyou]

I have a three year old who struggles to go to sleep after a nap at daycare. Please note that she arises at 7:00 a.m., an goes to sleep at 8:00 p.m., without a nap. The process to get her to sleep is the same that I have implemented since she was eighteen months; pajamas, quite time, brush our teeth, say our prayers and then lay quitely (no TV, outside noise, talking, etc.) However, when she does take a nap at daycare and wakes up at 2:00, she is cranky during the evening and does not go to sleep until 11:30 p.m. During the weekends I have a rule that she does have to lay down for quite time. I work a full time job, as well as my husband, with a small baby. When I am working my full time job, I do not get a 2-3 hour break of silence. Please read on Kids Health (or talk to a pediatrician) on how much sleep a toddler/preschooler needs before letting a child sleep until 4. A child needs structure and if he/she is falling alseep at your home/center until 4 there is definitely a problem with structure. Try putting the shoes on the other foot (because I have done both) and see which is easier; working a full time job with a child who doesn't go to sleep because the provider lets them sleep all day because it is easier, or being a provider who lets kids sleep 2-3 hours while they have a chance to catch up on laundry, dishes, planning, etc. When my child stays up until 11:30 p.m., me and my husband still have to play catch up on everyday duties and responsibilities. Really?

I'm pretty sure every parent I've ever provided childcare for has provided me with some version of this story when their kids start the "bedtime games" stage. I wake my DCK's up if they are still sleeping at the end of naptime but I'm a firm believer that MOST children do not get enough sleep on a daily basis so I will NEVER give up afternoon naps here for children under 5. In fact my own 7 year old and my 5 year old niece regularly lay down for quiet time and fall asleep on days off school and still go to bed. It's not the nap...its the routine and consistency at bedtime at home in 99% of cases.

[Kaddidle Care]

I had to stop naps with my 3 year old in order for him to go to bed at 8:00. If he took a 2 hour nap he'd be up until 10:00. Perhaps it was selfish of me but I was a SAHM and I was the one that needed that after 8:00 quiet time. I was pretty fried by then.

It doesn't make sense with the original poster that they wanted the child to stay up during nap time and then they kept her up late at night. A child needs a good 10-12 hours of sleep a day and with that child crashing and burning first, it was obvious that she needed that nap. I'm surprised she wasn't falling asleep in her dinner! Poor thing.

[nannyde]

I have a three year old who struggles to go to sleep after a nap at daycare. Please note that she arises at 7:00 a.m., an goes to sleep at 8:00 p.m., without a nap. The process to get her to sleep is the same that I have implemented since she was eighteen months; pajamas, quite time, brush our teeth, say our prayers and then lay quitely (no TV, outside noise, talking, etc.) However, when she does take a nap at daycare and wakes up at 2:00, she is cranky during the evening and does not go to sleep until 11:30 p.m. During the weekends I have a rule that she does have to lay down for quite time. I work a full time job, as well as my husband, with a small baby. When I am working my full time job, I do not get a 2-3 hour break of silence. Please read on Kids Health (or talk to a pediatrician) on how much sleep a toddler/preschooler needs before letting a child sleep until 4. A child needs structure and if he/she is falling alseep at your home/center until 4 there is definitely a problem with structure. Try putting the shoes on the other foot (because I have done both) and see which is easier; working a full time job with a child who doesn't go to sleep because the provider lets them sleep all day because it is easier, or being a provider who lets kids sleep 2-3 hours while they have a chance to catch up on laundry, dishes, planning, etc. When my child stays up until 11:30 p.m., me and my husband still have to play catch up on everyday duties and responsibilities. Really?

For "me".. I know I can't work twelve hours straight and I can't keep a business running year after year... decade after decade if I limit my hours to an eight hour day where I could work straight. I also can't find clients who can afford the extra fee for supervision when kids are up and playing during nap so I can have the eleven/twelve hour day. My fee structure IS based on an afternoon break period. If I give that up then I HAVE to charge a lot more money.

I completely understand that there are many children from newborn on who don't need naps and have parents who don't want them to nap. There's no age group where the requests for no nap reside. I've had EVERY age group from six months up to five.

I became clear in that I won't argue or comprimise whether a kid needs a nap or not. If they don't need one they can't be HERE during nap. Nap is for ME. I need a break every day... a long quiet break every day. Minus illness or adjustments of newborns into care... I get it EVERY day.

That's what "I" need. It's not about the kid or about his parents. It's about ME and what "I" need to continue to offer this service year after year. It's about what it takes to keep ME healthy. I haven't missed a single day of work in 17 years... not one. Haven't called in once for being sick. I am happy in my job and I love love love my kidlets.

I KNOW what it takes to keep ME happy so I choose to only work with families who have children that need a FULL afteroon nap.

[jen]

I have a three year old who struggles to go to sleep after a nap at daycare. Please note that she arises at 7:00 a.m., an goes to sleep at 8:00 p.m., without a nap. The process to get her to sleep is the same that I have implemented since she was eighteen months; pajamas, quite time, brush our teeth, say our prayers and then lay quitely (no TV, outside noise, talking, etc.) However, when she does take a nap at daycare and wakes up at 2:00, she is cranky during the evening and does not go to sleep until 11:30 p.m. During the weekends I have a rule that she does have to lay down for quite time. I work a full time job, as well as my husband, with a small baby. When I am working my full time job, I do not get a 2-3 hour break of silence. Please read on Kids Health (or talk to a pediatrician) on how much sleep a toddler/preschooler needs before letting a child sleep until 4. A child needs structure and if he/she is falling alseep at your home/center until 4 there is definitely a problem with structure. Try putting the shoes on the other foot (because I have done both) and see which is easier; working a full time job with a child who doesn't go to sleep because the provider lets them sleep all day because it is easier, or being a provider who lets kids sleep 2-3 hours while they have a chance to catch up on laundry, dishes, planning, etc. When my child stays up until 11:30 p.m., me and my husband still have to play catch up on everyday duties and responsibilities. Really?

Find a provider who offers those services. Really.

I don't ever get it when parent's post this kind of thing. It isn't brain surgery...if your provider doesn't offer the services you require, find another one who does! It's really nothing to be angry or snippy about. It's like getting angry at your Dr.'s office because the don't offer botox...there is nothing wrong with you, nothing wrong with the doctor, you are just looking for services that your Dr. doesn't provide so you need to go see a different doctor.

You wouldn't decide that you wanted your child to learn Chinese and then insist that your daycare provider change her program to accommodate that, would you? So why in the world should she change her program to suit your non-napping child?

[Unregistered]

ALL of the children i keep have naptime. ALL of them. Its in the contract and that is my "break" time(if you want to call it that). I too tell the parents that we have a 2 hour quiet time regardless of if your child sleeps or not. Period! Now if these parents were to take them to a larger center they would have to have quiet time also. I had a parent one time tell me that she doesn't use sippy cups at home (her kids were 1 and 4 at the time) and that the only time they are allowed to drink is when they are sitting at the table. I told her that they will be using sippy cups while at my house cause i don't want it on the carpet or furniture. Her rebuttlle......well if there sitting at the table they won't get it every where. Ok that just ticked me off........My response was i don't make the children sit at the table everytime they need a drink and that all the kids in my care WILL be using sippy cups including yours. That parent brings a regular cup every morning an that cup gets dumped out into a sippy cup! So i guess what my point is that if the child is sleeping at your house then let her sleep cause she is not getting the proper sleep at home. And i would just stand your ground on this. Just a word of advice.........Don't ever ever portray yourself as a push over cause they WILL push you over and over and over. Stand your ground, your house, your rules!!


This is what makes in home daycares look bad. Parents are parents and their ideas should be used, at least within reason. People like you make it hard to trust! You just said you do whatever you think is best, no matter what the parents want. YOUR KID, YOUR RULES!!! :)

[nannyde]

YOUR KID, YOUR RULES!!! :)

YES you are correct. So the parent needs to find a provider who provides the services to the "rules" they have for their childs care.

It's not a difficult concept. Find the place that does child care the way you want your child to be cared for. If the daycare doesn't offer a "no nap" service then you find one that does.

We AGREE with you. We just don't want to provide that service.

If you want your kid to have sushi then you don't take them to McDonalds. It aint personal.

[Cat Herder]

This is what makes in home daycares look bad. Parents are parents and their ideas should be used, at least within reason. People like you make it hard to trust! You just said you do whatever you think is best, no matter what the parents want. YOUR KID, YOUR RULES!!! :)

I will be a respectful as possible.

I believe you missed the part where the provider told the Mother that she would NOT be willing to compromise her policies.

At the point the Mother left her child in the care of the provider, AFTER she was informed, she AGREED to the terms of service.

It really is simple. :)

We are not being deceptive. Not every provider offers every service. If yours does not offer something you are looking for, find a provider who does.

Trust that she will not change her policies when she tells you, point blank, that she will not.

[Cat Herder]

YES you are correct. So the parent needs to find a provider who provides the services to the "rules" they have for their childs care.

It's not a difficult concept. Find the place that does child care the way you want your child to be cared for. If the daycare doesn't offer a "no nap" service then you find one that does.

We AGREE with you. We just don't want to provide that service.

If you want your kid to have sushi then you don't take them to McDonalds. It aint personal.

:lol:Nan. I did not see your post...I had not refreshed my page since I started eating my dinner....:p

[nannyde]

:lol:Nan. I did not see your post...I had not refreshed my page since I started eating my dinner....:p

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

The whole idea that we force kids to nap....
that we shouldn't have a say about what services we offer....
that we are to just DO as we are told..

GETS OLD

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[kimsdaycare]

I've been a provider for over 12 years and have only had one child whose parent requested no naps so their 4 yo child would sleep at night. Which I accomodated. Then the child bragged before and after nap about how *she* got to do fun things while the rest had to nap. I then had 5 children all resisting, and I worked my tail off trying to please them all during quiet time. By the end of my 11 hour day my bladder was bursting, tummy growling, the dog was "cleaning" up the messes for me and I was so exhausted that I had no "me" left for my own family. I endured this for months. Hardly the non-accomodating provider portrayed here. You know what I finally found out? This child obviously couldn't keep secrets (hence all the other children knowing about her special treatment) and she started sharing how her evenings were each night. I finally asked mom and dad if these things were true and they were:(

1.) She skipped nap here, but fell asleep daily in the car ride home or as soon as they got home and slept til dinner. Stayed up until nearly midnight in mom and dads bedroom watching things like South Park. Yes. South Park. Because it was her favorite show and she "knew better" than to imitate it.

2.) They would drive her to the store or fast-food restaurant late at night when she wouldn't sleep to quell the tantrums that she wasn't tired, with the promise that after the treat she would willingly try to sleep. Yup. Special treats for the poor thing, she wanted to please them oh so much but just couldn't.

3.) They didn't request no naps on their own. She had told them to make me stop them. She was making the rules for herself through mom and dad.

4.) I had also been asked to stop serving her foods she didn't like. Because the Doctor had "suggested" cutting out certain foods to "help her sleep". Asked for a drs note and then was told they were experimenting with this on their own, and had built off of a small suggestion the dr had made. This child later bragged to the other children that she got mommy to make me give her what she wanted to eat. The child thought it was great fun to point out that she was in control, not me.

I finally told the parents that if this child didn't stop sharing these things with the other children her special fun time would stop. They were all trying to get on board with this "I don't have to do what you ask, my mommy will tell you so". I just started to spin everything into a way that made them sound more like extra rules for her instead of accomodations. "Oh, too bad you arent allowed to take naps, we love our naptime" "Sorry you arent allowed to have carrots, they are cut into really cool little shapes today!" You know what, she started begging for these "priveledges" back. Mom backed her right up. I could eat lunch again! Yay!

It was a control thing. The OP is not the exact situation, but I wanted to give a side that would let you know *why* we are hesitant to change our routine for one. It took me almost a year to fix the disruption this caused, and to find out it was for a child's whim or that a parent that hid the fact that they allowed naps (it's not really a nap if it's the car ya know) from me that whole time has made me a bit anxious to encounter it again. I am not inflexible, just a victim of one bad experience. We are programmed to learn from negative experiences, it is total instinct. I have to slow down and remind myself, not all parents are like this. Just like not all home providers are the same either.

BTW - I still have this child. Surprising, I know. But in my eyes, the child was merely doing what she had been allowed to do and she had already been in 5 care situations by the time I got her. She needed to belong somewhere, and I was willing to start over for her sake. We communicated both sides and I still allow her to not sleep if she wishes so long as the other children are none the wiser, and she doesn't need to me to engage her in activities the whole time. I periodically check with the parents about car naps and late nights, and adjust her day if necessary, but we are all good most of the time. Mom no longer asks me to make exceptions for her. What Kim says goes. I now love this child. She knows she is loved as well, so there is no need to be the "special" one. She knows she is special to me.

I would love to have a parent being honest and trying to make it work. Compromise works for me and builds strong relationships with my clients. Yes, I prefer them to all nap. Yes, you prefer them to go to bed earlier. Sometimes we just have to meet in the middle somewhere so we both stay sane lol. I have never terminated a child for not napping. I didn't term my own, and I love my dc kids nearly as much as them.

I hope you find a place that can work for you. Please don't think that providers that require naps are all evil and selfish. My policies portray me as one of those as well. BUt the reality is that I will bend over backwards in an attempt to find a solution that works as long as the relationship is positive on all other levels. But I'm human and appreciate a lunch break as much as the rest of the employed population.

[Kaddidle Care]

Wow as a parent my fears about how childcare providers assume they know more about your child than you do have been confirmed. I have gone rounds and rounds with three daycares insisting that my 4 1/2 year old no longer needs to nap but I am only his mother what do I know. Now before you all say I just don't know how to put my child to bed you should all know on the weekends when he hasn't taken a nap I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM PUTTING MY CHILD TO BED, he is in bed by 8 no problem. His current center has a nap time from 1-3 or when the wake up. 2 hours is way too long and 3 is way too late to be waking up. I honestly would have no problem with a 30 min nap at say noon but anything more than that is excessive. Just because a child will go to sleep doesn't mean they need the sleep. If you put me on a cot and turned off the lights in the middle of the day at my work I would nod off too, and you know what I would be kept up when it was time for me to go to sleep. For those of you that won't wake up a child, shame on you I too have arrived at 4pm to find my child just woken up because he fell asleep at the end of naptime, gosh he must have finally nodded off out of the bordom of expecting a 4 yr old to sit quietly in the dark for 2 hours and "read". I guess those of you that require by contract that you get a 2 hour break in the middle of the day better stick to running your own daycare because no other jobs out there get to take 2 hours off in the middle of theday. Also if you would like to know as a parent what annoys us about daycare workers is that somehow you act like we work for you and we are to do as you say, well I hate to tell you YOU WORK FOR ME FOLLOW THE RULES I HAVE SET FORTH FOR MY CHILD OR I WILL FIRE YOU

Ahahahahahaha! I'm sorry, this post is hilarious!:lol:

If you don't like the RULES, then take your child elsewhere. Better yet, stay HOME with your child and see what it's like in the real world. Did you know that in the real world there are also rules that have to be followed? They're called LAWS. You feel that the rules don't apply to you. I wonder how many laws don't apply to you. This is what you are teaching your child now at 4 1/2. Just wait until he reaches his teen years - you're in for a bumpy ride.

The child that refuses to rest will 9 times out of 10 will wake those that do need a rest with their shinanigans. Sorry about geeking but "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few".

But.. like I said, if you don't like it and feel your child isn't being treated right, by all means, find a place that is a better fit or take care of him yourself.

[Unregistered]

I have a 4 year old who has to lay on a mat for 1 and a half hours at her preschool/day care center. She can't get her little body to rest/sleep. The teachers reward the resting sleeping children with stickers. So every day my daughter comes home crying thinking she did something wrong because she gets no reward. Every child is different. To force a 4 year old to lay on a mat for that long doing nothing is bizarre to me. Could someone please post the Maryland state regulation that says child care workers must force a child to lay on a mat for 2 hours.

I think I read that regulation at one point and it states that a child care center must offer a nap area and a rest period but it is up to the child if he/she wants to nap or rest. I understand the need for quiet time but please this is crazy the way you think you can force children to sleep or sit still on a mat when their bodies are not able to do so.
Stop and really think about the power struggle you are creating. The feeling of shame you are creating in these children when you are telling them to do this and if they don't something is wrong with them.
You are interrupting the regulation all wrong. This regulation was to support and understand the needs of the child not to give the care giver a break.

Read and reread the regulation with each individual child in mind. Then please, please listen to the parents who knows more about their own child then the person in government that wrote a regulation that is being misused.


I completely agree with you and am glad you posted. I've worked at day care centers for a few years now, with all ages. I don't understand why some teachers think the quiet time is suddenly their "break time." Four year old children (and younger) DO need rest, yes, but every child is different. To force a child to lay still for that long if they CLEARLY do not need rest is just ridiculous to me. There are plenty of quiet activities for children to do; read, color, even bring in a small game with headphones if they are that active. Believe me, I know that it's hard to have some kids trying to rest who REALLY, REALLY need sleep while Little Johnny is screaming his head off. But this mother is completely right. There are some children who are just simply non-nappers, active children, and the idea that they go home each day crying/without a sticker like their friends makes me so sad/angry for them. She is exactly right in saying that it creates a feeling of shame in them. They do not understand the adult reason for needing to have them all laying down. And this parent is correct in saying that long, excessive naps DO disrupt sleeping patterns at home. For one poster here who said that it's all a matter of the routine at home being "wrong," that's just insulting. You have no idea what the routine is of these parents who probably do have a good night time routine, lights off at a certain time no exceptions, and still struggle with their children not sleeping because of a long nap at school being forced. The government regulation is definitely being misused by some teachers and it's sad that parents have no say in their own children's daily routine.

[Unregistered]

Thank you for this post. I also have a 4 year old at daycare. She is having the same issues. I am appalled as well. We live in MA and they are required to give students rest time, but one teacher forces my daughter to take a nap. I have tried to provide the school with a doctors note, and dolls for my daughter to sit and play with quietly. The center director agreed, stating my daughter would be woken after 1/2 hour if she falls asleep. I agree, it is hard enough leaving your children and now after reading all the comments of daycare providers it makes it even harder

Some people really should not work with children or families. Nap time is not Breaktime- for providers to play on the computer! Some children are more active than others-my daughter is up all night on school nights, but when she is kept home, or is home on weekends has a beautiful sleep routine. It is clear to me what the problem is-She is awake for-what 4 hours of her day-why would she want to sleep at night. Not all parents have the liberty of staying home and caring for their own children-most of us put our children there because we have to! Get another job-if you can't put children's health before your break time!

Furious in MA!

[Country Kids]

Some people really should not work with children or families. Nap time is not Breaktime- for providers to play on the computer! Some children are more active than others-my daughter is up all night on school nights, but when she is kept home, or is home on weekends has a beautiful sleep routine. It is clear to me what the problem is-She is awake for-what 4 hours of her day-why would she want to sleep at night. Not all parents have the liberty of staying home and caring for their own children-most of us put our children there because we have to! Get another job-if you can't put children's health before your break time!

Furious in MA!

You are correct-some children are more active than others. I have some in my care that are active BUT my STATE still requires me to provide a rest time for the children and will ask what time do the children rest. This is a state rule/law that we have to follow.

I have children come very early in my day-6:30 and if I don't lay them down till 1:00 they have been up 6.5 hours not 4 and are tired-you must take your child to childcare late in the morning and that would make sense of why she isn't tired. The majority of my children are here 9.5-11 hours a day-they definitely need rest.

Parents have asked me not to lay children down for rest time but then when I show them the rule nothing more is said. One parent was surprised when child left here for another childcare and guess what they had to have resttime there also. It is funny because the ones that the parents don't want to fall asleep alsways seem to do the majority of the time. You can't make a child sleep it comes naturally if the child is tired.

Just recently one of mine didn't fall asleep but did rest. Guess what-within minutes after rest time this child was crying because she was tired (she told me this) and ended up in time out because she started being not nice to the other ones here. At pick-up time her mom wasn't happy with her because she knows how this child can be without a nap but didn't blame me for her not sleeping. She just let the child know that she would be sleeping alot earlier at home tonight-that threw the eveing routine for them at home all out of wack.

True, alot of people do not get to stay home and work. My children are pretty much all grown but I keep doing this because it is my career and one I have built up and very proud of. My suggestion to you is maybe look for another provider that fits your childs energy level better or start your own childcare. That is seriously how I started my childcare-I wasn't happy with care my child was receiving and was able to make more doing this than the job I was at. Then you are the rule maker for your child.

The last thing I would suggest is contact your state and ask for a childcare providers handbook that lists all the rules and regulations for your state. I bet you would be amazed and the things we have to follow and do in order to "stay home with our children".

[Unregistered]

Some people really should not work with children or families. Nap time is not Breaktime- for providers to play on the computer! Some children are more active than others-my daughter is up all night on school nights, but when she is kept home, or is home on weekends has a beautiful sleep routine. It is clear to me what the problem is-She is awake for-what 4 hours of her day-why would she want to sleep at night. Not all parents have the liberty of staying home and caring for their own children-most of us put our children there because we have to! Get another job-if you can't put children's health before your break time!

Furious in MA!


This post is so offensive that it's hard to decide what to address first.

Naptime for my daycare kids IS breaktime for me and I can use my computer as I see fit. When it's naptime/rest time for my daycare kids, then that means that whatever the kids are doing, it needs to be done quietly if the child isn't sleeping. That means that I won't be engaging the kids who aren't sleeping in any way other than making sure that whatever they are doing, they are doing it quietly. It's not fair to have a lot of noise that prevents the kids who want to sleep from getting rest.

For all of the parents who have kids who fight bedtime, first off, I understand how frustrating it is because my daughter was the worst when it came to bedtime. It wasn't the daycare's fault. She never slept at daycare (but she did rest quietly or just did quiet rest time activities and wasn't disruptive) and still she fought bedtime. It's not always a clear case of "it's all daycare's fault that my kid won't go to bed". Sometimes kids just fight bedtime. Furthermore, if a kid is active, then what would you suggest that the provider do during naptime with the child? You are thinking about this from a parent's point of view and that's fine for you. You know what you want for your child and that's super. Guess what? Unlike you, I have to keep everyone's best interest in mind as a provider.

When I have the kids in my care napping/resting, I am absolutely putting their health first. Kids need time during the day to unwind. They may not want to sleep and that's OK, but they do need some down time during the day. I never force kids to go to sleep, but they always fall asleep when it's naptime. Sleep is too important for health and growth to be used as a means to make sure that your kid goes to sleep on your schedule. Sure, if you knew what she did every day that she was at daycare and you knew for a fact that it was the same thing that you do with her on the weekends and any other day that she might be home with you, then maybe you could say that she doesn't need a nap but daycare schedules are usually a whole lot different. If your child is falling asleep at naptime at daycare, it's most likely because she needs the sleep then.

Providers aren't trying to make life hard for the parents by having a nap time. Providers aren't trying to be lazy, either.

Wow. Just wow.

[Unregistered]

Laundry Duchess:

I disagree completely that you discipline a child a whole day after the incident. You find a disciplinary routine that works i.e. time out that is age appropriate and discipline him/her in the moment. Then you forget about it as they would as well! Especially off to the next day. That would only confuse the child and make them think they did nothing wrong, as maybe the next day they hadn't. The more consistent you are the more consistent the child's behavior will become. Period. Even if the parents don't discipline at their home, children are smart enought to pick up on differnt house, center, whatever...different rules.



have you just simply told him, when you yell at nap you will get no craft time. Period. Hes 4, not a baby. He seems smart. Be straight with him. when he arrives say Little Billy, if you scream at my home you will have to lose an activity. If your quiet, you get the activity.

Make it story time or playdough time or whatever,... something that happens BEFORE nap remind him the first day during the activity that if he screams he will not do the activity the next day. If he does scream,.... the next day say,.. Billy, you dont get to play (the activity) today because of your behavior yesterday. Im sorry but you chose to throw a fit, you need to go sit while we do the activity. Then when you lay them down say ,.. Billy,.. if you scream today you will not do the activity tomorrow. It will be fresh in his mind that he missed out because of his behavior. I bet it will take one day,.. possibly two to fix this issue. If it doesnt work the first day pick something really fun to exclude him from. And if anyone wants to flame me go ahead. Thats how it works here,.. You behave and get fun things,.. You misbehave and you dont. Amazingly,.. the kids behave,.. listen and after a time or two missing a fun thing,.. they magically "get it". My opinion,.. you dont give a tantrum a reward. and any attention is attention even if its to say,.. hush, be quiet,.. stop yelling,.. Bad behavior is ignored,..Ignored behavior is not being re-enforced. the bad behavior that gets no attention is no longer getting them attention so its not worth the effort. They see that good behavior is rewarded with fun things,... the world keeps spinning and everyone is friends.

[Unregistered]

or ignore them in hopes they will sleep.

Break time is when you have an assistant come in and cover for you.

If you can't do this, and you need families whose children need naps, search for that in interviews, make a no drop offs after x o'clock rule. I am not aware of any state with a requirement for sleep, or that allows non sleepers to be kept down for more than 30 minutes, if that. Get a quiet corner, play nap time DVDs (aligned with your learning units).

You can create a quiet, engaging time for this child, and others who will come. Its up to you to decide if you are willing to.

If you are a parent with a nap time issue, and your provider is forcing your non-sleeping child to stay on a mat or cot longer than 30 minutes, call your state agency.

[Unregistered]

If a 4 year old doesn't sleep here, that's okay with me. At this point they are two months away from kindergarten. If they are enrolled in afternoon classes then they need to adjust to no naps anyway.

They lay down on their mats the same time everyone else does. Like someone else mentioned if they aren't asleep after about 30 mins, I give them books to look at/read. If after an hour they are still wide awake, they can get up and do quiet activities in whatever room I'm in. We'll talk quietly while I do what I need to.. it's a chance to spend some time with them on their level without the younger ones' needs in there. It's also understood that for the last however long before "wake up" time I will have a cup of coffee and read, and that is "my" time.

I don't believe every four year old needs a nap anymore. Quiet time yes, but not necessarily sleep. If they have a good solid sleep at night, some can go without the nap in the afternoon. With kindergarten only a couple of months away it's a good time to start getting them used to a full day without a nap.

[Unregistered]

I put my 3.5yr old religiously to bed at 7pm every night. Before bedtime, there's no stimulation, no tv, no juices, no sugar, etc. The room is dark, she has a sound machine, no toys in the crib, and can't hear us downstairs. By the end of a long weekend, she's on a great schedule falling asleep at 7:15 with no problem and waking at 7:30am the next morning. But when she goes back to daycare, within 2 days, although she goes to bed at 7pm, she's up talking until 9:30pm. We got to bed at 9pm on most nights so I can only wonder how long she goes talking for. I remind her not to talk but she forgets. She'll play pretend, count her fingers, etc. in the dark. Fridays are worse as those are the days the daycare provider takes it "easy" and the kids all "sleep" a little extra so she can plan her weekend. I discovered she puts my kid down at 12:30pm and gets her up at 3:30pm. After an almost quarter night's sleep and being put in bed 3.5hrs later, she just can't fall asleep. I spoke with the provider who stated that since I have to wake her at 6:30am on weekdays (I work full-time), that's the reason she gives her extra naptime. She intentionally misses my point that my daughter is put in bed at 7pm every single night. It hurts to hear my daughter bored for 2.5hrs a night upstairs and to think of her locked up in some room so this lady can take a break. I'll be putting her in preschool as soon as I can afford it. When she went to a licensed public daycare, she was not having any sleep issues & had more stimulation to exercise her body and mind.

[Unregistered]

I am shocked at how many daycare owners are up past 1am on weekdays on this thread. People are usually worn out when they spend day in and out with kids. Makes me wonder what your "secrets" are to being able to stay up so late & face a bunch of kids the following morning before parents have to be at work. My cousin runs her own in-home daycare. If you e-mail her at anytime of the day, she'll respond within minutes. Makes me wonder what people are paying her for other than to standby like a correctional officer with a bunch of inmates.

[mac60]

The post here are getting more and more amusing. Putting your child to bed at 7:00pm. Hmm, guess you don't want to spend time with your child, yet you are condenscending to a provider to putting a child down for a nap during the 8 to 10 hours they have them during the day. You can't possible spend more than 2 to 3 hours with your own child if you put them to bed at 7:00pm. Then to be "shocked" at how many providers are up at 1am. And you know this how????? The time posted on "my" post is wrong, and I specifically set it up that way. And really, what business is it of anyone's what time any of us go to bed, many people function quite well on 5/6 hours sleep. Don't judge people you know nothing about. And in our state, you don't go to kindergarten till you are 5, and even the dc centers have naptime for soon to start kindergarteners, they stop giving naps 1 week before they start.

[nannyde]

I put my 3.5yr old religiously to bed at 7pm every night. Before bedtime, there's no stimulation, no tv, no juices, no sugar, etc. The room is dark, she has a sound machine, no toys in the crib, and can't hear us downstairs. By the end of a long weekend, she's on a great schedule falling asleep at 7:15 with no problem and waking at 7:30am the next morning. But when she goes back to daycare, within 2 days, although she goes to bed at 7pm, she's up talking until 9:30pm. We got to bed at 9pm on most nights so I can only wonder how long she goes talking for. I remind her not to talk but she forgets. She'll play pretend, count her fingers, etc. in the dark. Fridays are worse as those are the days the daycare provider takes it "easy" and the kids all "sleep" a little extra so she can plan her weekend. I discovered she puts my kid down at 12:30pm and gets her up at 3:30pm. After an almost quarter night's sleep and being put in bed 3.5hrs later, she just can't fall asleep. I spoke with the provider who stated that since I have to wake her at 6:30am on weekdays (I work full-time), that's the reason she gives her extra naptime. She intentionally misses my point that my daughter is put in bed at 7pm every single night. It hurts to hear my daughter bored for 2.5hrs a night upstairs and to think of her locked up in some room so this lady can take a break. I'll be putting her in preschool as soon as I can afford it. When she went to a licensed public daycare, she was not having any sleep issues & had more stimulation to exercise her body and mind.

Seven p.m. is a REALLY early bedtime for a child this age. All my kids go to bed around eight thirty/nine p.m.. They have a full evening with their parents.

Your little one wants her Mommy. She wants to be up and have FAMILY time in the evenings with you. If she went to bed at nine p.m. after having the seven to nine p.m. time as a FAMILY time with you then she would most likely conk out at sleep.

Kids need at least five hours of AWAKE time EVERY day with their parents. Not including transportation time to the day care.

[nannyde]

I am shocked at how many daycare owners are up past 1am on weekdays on this thread. People are usually worn out when they spend day in and out with kids. Makes me wonder what your "secrets" are to being able to stay up so late & face a bunch of kids the following morning before parents have to be at work. My cousin runs her own in-home daycare. If you e-mail her at anytime of the day, she'll respond within minutes. Makes me wonder what people are paying her for other than to standby like a correctional officer with a bunch of inmates.

You might be seeing time differences on the threads. I don't know how that works. Unless I was off the next day I wouldn't be up that late. And yes I have a cousin who thinks that if I'm able to answer emails instantly that I couldn't possibly be doing anything but standby like a correctional officer with a bunch of inmates.

We all have them there cousins... the ones always trying to find fault... the ones always trying to tell you how to do your business.... and none of them actually DO child care. ;)

[Kaddidle Care]

By the end of a long weekend, she's on a great schedule falling asleep at 7:15 with no problem and waking at 7:30am the next morning. But when she goes back to daycare, within 2 days, although she goes to bed at 7pm, she's up talking until 9:30pm. We got to bed at 9pm on most nights so I can only wonder how long she goes talking for.
I can't believe you are going to sleep BEFORE you know your own child is asleep! That could be dangerous unless you are an extremely light sleeper.


I discovered she puts my kid down at 12:30pm and gets her up at 3:30pm. After an almost quarter night's sleep and being put in bed 3.5hrs later, she just can't fall asleep.
If she is crashing and burning at 12:30 and sleeping until 3:30, she NEEDS it.

I spoke with the provider who stated that since I have to wake her at 6:30am on weekdays (I work full-time), that's the reason she gives her extra naptime.
In other words, she is little miss cranky pants from 6:30-12:30 because she hasn't gotten enough sleep. You are telling us she is asleep from 7:15-7:30 but I'm detecting a Pinocchioism here. :rolleyes: http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww173/prestonjjrtr/Smileys/smiley-pinocchio-liar.gif

When she went to a licensed public daycare, she was not having any sleep issues & had more stimulation to exercise her body and mind.
Since you are so unhappy with your provider, I think it may be time to move on. You will find that a licensed public daycare requires children to nap during the day as well. You probably had your daughter there when she was quite a bit younger and needed more sleep. I doubt she took a shorter nap. 2 hours is pretty standard. 2 hours is when they START to lay down to nap but they don't all fall asleep immediately. Good luck!


I am shocked at how many daycare owners are up past 1am on weekdays on this thread. People are usually worn out when they spend day in and out with kids. Makes me wonder what your "secrets" are to being able to stay up so late & face a bunch of kids the following morning before parents have to be at work. My cousin runs her own in-home daycare. If you e-mail her at anytime of the day, she'll respond within minutes. Makes me wonder what people are paying her for other than to standby like a correctional officer with a bunch of inmates.

So you think your cousin is the norm? Do YOU have children? Because if you do, I see that you are up and on the computer at 12:31 AM.
It's quite possible that some of these child care providers have skewed sleep schedules due to the after dinner crash and burn which may have resulted in a nap during their family time. When I had a young baby, I used to work from home on the computer from 8:00-12:00. It wasn't unusual for me to be posting on a "fun" forum at 1:00 AM.
Keep in mind that not all members here are full time daycare providers.

[Meyou]

Also regarding emails...in this day and age it's very easy to have email access on a phone. I get a text when I have a new email for example. I can check it in the yard with the kids and quickly reply. I usually say something like..."in the yard, will write back with details at naptime when I'm inside." if it's anything lengthy or requires my brain to reply. lol

I also post facebook pics from my phone outside and update my facebook status. My parents like seeing updates as the day goes on if someone does something funny or amazing!! I sent a mom video of her dd from my backyard at 4pm yesterday when she mastered something she's been attempting for days.

Don't assume that all providers are slacking, eating bon bons and letting the kids run wild. :)

[Country Kids]

Seven p.m. is a REALLY early bedtime for a child this age. All my kids go to bed around eight thirty/nine p.m.. They have a full evening with their parents.

Your little one wants her Mommy. She wants to be up and have FAMILY time in the evenings with you. If she went to bed at nine p.m. after having the seven to nine p.m. time as a FAMILY time with you then she would most likely conk out at sleep.

Kids need at least five hours of AWAKE time EVERY day with their parents. Not including transportation time to the day care.

I have a family that there children are in bed about 7:30 every night (except church night) and they are in elementary school (upper grades). My husband and brothers all had to be in bed at 7:00 while in elementary school. This was even during the summer time. They can all tell you that it was still bright and sunshiny out when they were in bed. It was dinner, showers then bed every night.

[Meyou]

My 7 year old goes to bed at 7:30pm most nights. She still needs 12 hours sleep or she's a miserable cranky mess. I rarely let her stay up past 8pm even in the summer. The last fireworks she watched she was up until 10:30 and was a hysterical heap of tears on the floor by the time we got home because I made her hold my hand after she kept dawdling behind us.

[AmandasFCC]

The difference is those kids are in school all day and not expected to nap.

A child that's been in daycare all day, where a rest period is usually enforced, does not need to be in bed at 7am. My dd3 naps about 1.5-2 hours day and goes to bed between 8-8:30. We close the door and she closes her eyes and that's her until 6:30-7am. If she wasn't napping, she'd be in bed earlier, but because she's still happy and not requiring rest at 7, why on earth would I cut my day with her short? And I'm WITH her all day long ;)

[Unregistered]

Imagine having a birthday party for 8 children under the age of 5 at your house, with no other parents there to help you. Now do that for 10-11 hours a day, 5 days a week. Make sure to plenty of meals and activites! Oh, and no one has had a nap? arrrggggg!!!!

[SilverSabre25]

I am shocked at how many daycare owners are up past 1am on weekdays on this thread. People are usually worn out when they spend day in and out with kids. Makes me wonder what your "secrets" are to being able to stay up so late & face a bunch of kids the following morning before parents have to be at work. My cousin runs her own in-home daycare. If you e-mail her at anytime of the day, she'll respond within minutes. Makes me wonder what people are paying her for other than to standby like a correctional officer with a bunch of inmates.

keep in mind that we have members from all across the U.S and Canada--even Alaska, I believe. Your 1 AM might be their 10 PM...they might be up with a restless wakey infant, have insomnia, or not have to get up at 6 AM the next day. Also..you were up at 12:30 so what gives??

[Unregistered]

My son is 4 1/2 and is being forced to take naps by his daycare. He hasn't slept before 10:00 since preschool let out a month ago - and yes, he has a regular bedtime, he just cant sleep and is crying in his bed. There is no reason for a 4 year old child to take a nap other than the laziness of the daytime caretaker. My boy walked into daycare this morning (and many mornings before ) proclaiming that he wanted to sleep at night not in the day but once again his wish was not honored. I guess thats what minimum wage gets you.

[jen]

My son is 4 1/2 and is being forced to take naps by his daycare. He hasn't slept before 10:00 since preschool let out a month ago - and yes, he has a regular bedtime, he just cant sleep and is crying in his bed. There is no reason for a 4 year old child to take a nap other than the laziness of the daytime caretaker. My boy walked into daycare this morning (and many mornings before ) proclaiming that he wanted to sleep at night not in the day but once again his wish was not honored. I guess thats what minimum wage gets you.

Well, since YOU are his parent and his daycare situation is clearly not working for him, what are YOU doing to fix it?

If the current provider doesn't offer the services you need, shouldn't you be looking for one that does? What does wage have to do with it? This is simply about what services ARE offered, versus which ones ARE NOT offered.

As his parent, why don't you set about "honoring" his wishes? Or, is that too much work? Much easier to complain than to fix, I suppose.

[nannyde]

My son is 4 1/2 and is being forced to take naps by his daycare. He hasn't slept before 10:00 since preschool let out a month ago - and yes, he has a regular bedtime, he just cant sleep and is crying in his bed. There is no reason for a 4 year old child to take a nap other than the laziness of the daytime caretaker. My boy walked into daycare this morning (and many mornings before ) proclaiming that he wanted to sleep at night not in the day but once again his wish was not honored. I guess thats what minimum wage gets you.

This is SO sad. :(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(

Why would you take your child somewhere where they are FORCING him to do something HE doesn't want to do and YOU don't want him to do? Why are you allowing him around a minimum wage employee who is lazy? Why would you take him back many mornings and stand there and LISTEN to him say the words that he doesn't want to sleep during the day and then LEAVE........ HIM....... THERE? You KNOW his wishes are not being honored and you walk away?

He needs a PARENT to make sure his wishes are HONORED and he is not FORCED to do something he doesn't want and clearly doesn't need. YOU have to make sure that happens.... YOU

[AnneCordelia]

My son is 4 1/2 and is being forced to take naps by his daycare. He hasn't slept before 10:00 since preschool let out a month ago - and yes, he has a regular bedtime, he just cant sleep and is crying in his bed. There is no reason for a 4 year old child to take a nap other than the laziness of the daytime caretaker. My boy walked into daycare this morning (and many mornings before ) proclaiming that he wanted to sleep at night not in the day but once again his wish was not honored. I guess thats what minimum wage gets you.

If it's so important to you that his caretaker honour his wishes then you need to find him a caretaker who will. This is not on them...you were the one who dropped him off there.

My own children go to bed between 7:30-8pm. We just recently moved my 8yo's bedtime to 8pm. They like their sleep.

[MommyMuffin]

I am a little sad by the comments from some parents on this thread. There are great providers and not so great providers. Just as there are great people in your (parents) line of work and not so great people.

We are all human. Most of use work our butts off trying to make sure we provide a great enviroment and we even use whatever little income is left over to put twoards toys, equiptment, and whatever we think your child will like.

It is your choice who you leave your child with. Like Nannyde said.

We are hard working citizens too. We try to please every parent in the ways we can.

I guess I just wanted to say, I am working just like you. I like my job and I try very hard to do it well, just as I am sure you do to. So to read the things you wrote makes me very sad for the future daycare providers. Parents are setting up expectations that no ONE human can live up to. There is usually only ONE of us...all day long. And we still put on a happy smile for you after a long hard day. And its amazing that we still find joy in our job when parents constently fight our program and put us down.

[Unregistered]

My son is 4 1/2 and is being forced to take naps by his daycare. He hasn't slept before 10:00 since preschool let out a month ago - and yes, he has a regular bedtime, he just cant sleep and is crying in his bed. There is no reason for a 4 year old child to take a nap other than the laziness of the daytime caretaker. My boy walked into daycare this morning (and many mornings before ) proclaiming that he wanted to sleep at night not in the day but once again his wish was not honored. I guess thats what minimum wage gets you.

If you have an issue with your son's childcare provider, then you need to address it. You are keeping your child in a daycare setting that you aren't comfortable with. Why is it the provider's job to "honor" your son's wishes in relation to naptime? What about the wishes of the other children in her care? I guess that their wishes aren't as important as your son's.

Of course he's proclaiming that he doesn't want to nap. Not many kids start their day looking forward to nap. Some kids are determined to get out of naptime and will cry about how much they don't like naptime. What are the rest time requirements for the state that you live in? She may have a required rest time for children that are under the age of 6.

I don't force my daycare kids to sleep but we do have a rest time. Within five minutes of laying down, they are all sleeping. You may not think that a 4 year old doesn't need a nap but if a 4 year old falls asleep, then that's a pretty clear sign to me that the child is tired.

What if a 4 year old child who doesn't have naptime is loud and is not able to do quiet activities while the other kids sleep? It seems pretty unfair to the other kids.

Have you considered a nanny? You might need one in order to have your child's "wishes" honored.

[Blackcat31]

I am shocked at how many daycare owners are up past 1am on weekdays on this thread. People are usually worn out when they spend day in and out with kids. Makes me wonder what your "secrets" are to being able to stay up so late & face a bunch of kids the following morning before parents have to be at work. My cousin runs her own in-home daycare. If you e-mail her at anytime of the day, she'll respond within minutes. Makes me wonder what people are paying her for other than to standby like a correctional officer with a bunch of inmates.

I am up every evening very late. I get up every morning before the sun does. 7 days a week.
I have never napped in my adult life.
I do not smoke, drink alcohol, do drugs or take any other kind of product that helps keep me awake and/or alert.
I am simply one of those people who requires very little sleep.
I am NEVER cranky or moody. (I have no idea why...I just feel happy and joyful to be alive everyday.)
I am always smiling and laughing with those around me....especially my daycare kids.

I hate when people lump others together in a group and make such stupid assumptions and stereotypes.
Just like all the parents and the children we encounter are vastly unique, so is every childcare provider.


I'll be sure to check and see if you have a response around 1:00 a.m. tonight. ;)

[harperluu]

I have a 4 year old who has to lay on a mat for 1 and a half hours at her preschool/day care center. She can't get her little body to rest/sleep. The teachers reward the resting sleeping children with stickers. So every day my daughter comes home crying thinking she did something wrong because she gets no reward. Every child is different. To force a 4 year old to lay on a mat for that long doing nothing is bizarre to me. Could someone please post the Maryland state regulation that says child care workers must force a child to lay on a mat for 2 hours.

I think I read that regulation at one point and it states that a child care center must offer a nap area and a rest period but it is up to the child if he/she wants to nap or rest. I understand the need for quiet time but please this is crazy the way you think you can force children to sleep or sit still on a mat when their bodies are not able to do so.
Stop and really think about the power struggle you are creating. The feeling of shame you are creating in these children when you are telling them to do this and if they don't something is wrong with them.
You are interrupting the regulation all wrong. This regulation was to support and understand the needs of the child not to give the care giver a break.

Read and reread the regulation with each individual child in mind. Then please, please listen to the parents who knows more about their own child then the person in government that wrote a regulation that is being misused.

This is what I have to say about this. I don't disagree with you, however, there are also lots of children in this group setting that DO nap and need the full rest time. If your child's individual needs don't work at this center or in group child care, then find a place where their needs are being met. I expect the children who are getting stickers are getting them for laying quietly and respecting the other children's right to nap. Your child's needs don't come before the needs of the group. Not in group care, not in this setting. Sure, we want what's best for the kids, but if you're looking for individualized care you need to hire a nanny or babysitter that can provide the kind of one-on-one care you're looking for.

What about the parent that has a 4 year old and says, my child is only sleeping an hour because another child is allowed to be up and playing during rest. She's crabby and is not enjoying her evening soccer practice because she isn't resting long enough. The needs of the group will always win out in group child care. If the majority of the group needs to rest for 2.5 hours, then all the children will rest quietly for 2.5 hours.

If your child has outgrown nap time, then it is up to you to find care that suits her individual needs rather than criticize the care being provided to a group of children that seem to be well suited to this naptime rule.

[harperluu]

I am shocked at how many daycare owners are up past 1am on weekdays on this thread. People are usually worn out when they spend day in and out with kids. Makes me wonder what your "secrets" are to being able to stay up so late & face a bunch of kids the following morning before parents have to be at work. My cousin runs her own in-home daycare. If you e-mail her at anytime of the day, she'll respond within minutes. Makes me wonder what people are paying her for other than to standby like a correctional officer with a bunch of inmates.

I wonder what YOUR secrets are that you have to post on here as an unregistered guest.

[Zoe]

I just have to say that I LOVE the tag for this post......"the post that would not end". :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: Amen!

[Kaddidle Care]

My son is 4 1/2 and is being forced to take naps by his daycare. He hasn't slept before 10:00 since preschool let out a month ago - and yes, he has a regular bedtime, he just cant sleep and is crying in his bed. There is no reason for a 4 year old child to take a nap other than the laziness of the daytime caretaker. My boy walked into daycare this morning (and many mornings before ) proclaiming that he wanted to sleep at night not in the day but once again his wish was not honored. I guess thats what minimum wage gets you.

Seriously? Careful about all that looking down your nose - you just might trip.

I find it so ironic that someone thinks so little of the person they are putting in charge of their most precious gift. Sad indeed.

[Cat Herder]

If you e-mail her at anytime of the day, she'll respond within minutes.


Me, too..:Sunny:

My computer says "You've got mail". The children then chant "You got mail, You got mail, You got mail" to the music of Nany-nany-boo-boo..

Once I was even told "MS. ***, your chair wants you."

So I walk over to my desk to see what it is. Usually it is a parent, but occasionally it is a toy or curriculum sale...;)

[Unregistered]

Im sorry and Im gonna get everyone crazy again, but when I first read Frustrated's post, I didnt believe it! There, I said it.

[Unregistered]

Thanks for all the comments. Just another bit of info here. She has been sleeping in her parents bed since birth and just about a month ago, they tried to get her in her own room. Needless to say, the child told me on Monday, that her mom just moved her bed into her parents room. I am just going to do as I always have and have her take a nap with the other kids. She very clearly runs her household, but I will not allow her to run my daycare. I do need that break every day, and actually look forward to catching up on the laundry and cleaning at nap time. It is the only way, I can get my own chores done.


"She very clearly runs her household, but I will not allow her to run my daycare."???

I thought it was the parents to blame and not the child?
You Miss, are the very reason why I am a stay at home Mom. I can only imagine how you treat that little girl during the time in which she is at your house and Im sure if her parents knew that you were in need of some sort of assistance from a forum they most certainly wouldnt have their child in your care.

As for the others who run daycares out of their homes, I agree with the your house your rules policy.

[Unregistered]

I too have children that will sleep till 4. But they didn't fall asleep till 2:30 or so. So, my point is, maybe she didn't fall asleep till towards the end of nap time, and I WON"T wake a sleeping child unless it is getting close to pick up time. At age 4, taking a 2/3 hour nap is common at my house. These kids get up early in the morning and their days are very busy.

As far as your child not wanting to go to bed at night. It has nothing to do with the nap at childcare, I would say it has more to do with how it is simply done at home. Kids have a way to get what they want at home.

I too have went thru the "Please don't let them sleep for more than 1 hour" because they won't go to sleep at home. Hmm, take out the tv and dvd player from their bedroom. Put them to bed at a descent time, shut out the light, and discipline them when they disobey. This is what is frustrating, the provider gets the blame for a child not wanting to sleep, yet the parent lets the kid lay in bed and watch tv.....this was the situation with me.

I have a kindergartener in my care, goes in the morning, and he gets back at 12:30, eats, and takes a 1 1/2 to 2 hour nap everyday. His days are very busy. I also have a first grader in my care, no school days, she lays down also, her choice to look at books or do something queitly, and 99% of the time she rolls over and goes to sleep.

I am a mother of 3 children ages 15, 5 and 4. I also ran a day care in my home for a while. I believe it is a joint effort by the parents and the providors to do what is best for the children. I see providors on this thread blasting parents. Maybe these are issues that should be talked about among the parents and the providors. After all, isnt that why many people choose a home day care instead of a larger center. That being said....my 4 year old has always been a good sleeper and was always in bed by 8 pm. There is NO tv and NO video games in his room which he has shared since birth with his brother that is one year older. Lately he has been having trouble falling asleep, he is simply not tired enough and we ARE a highly active family. He does nap at daycare but on weekends he doesnt. He naps at daycare because it is a routine he is used to. I feel he is ready to either stop napping or have shorter naps now. Due to him not being able to fall asleep until later, we have trouble getting him up in the morning. We are a dual career family and have to be up and out early in the morning. I know there is no definitive answer to this issue but I think it is a case by case basis. I was actually uncomfortable after reading some of these responses with the tone in what some providors are saying. I believe as a providor you have a responsiblity not to complain about the people who pay you to take care of their children in a public forum, bring those issues to the parent and you never know, it MAY just be a misunderstanding that can be cleared up really easily. Communication helps in so many ways.

[Nellie]

OMG. That is all I can say. I know that there has been tons of posts on nap problem issues so indstead of asking I thought I'd search...........and this is what I ended up reading untill 1 in the morning.:lol:

[dave4him]

I would say two hours is a healthy amount of time for a four year old

[Unregistered]

I am a parent of a 4 year old and to be honest, I am appalled at the comments made by some daycare providers on this message board. Wow. Ms. Sue: "It's not the child with the issue- it's the parents - as usual". How presumptuous and wrong you are. I am a teacher, and we are taught that the parents are the first and most important "teachers" of their children.

My son, even though he does not need a nap would always nap given the opportunity-- placed in a quiet dark room...of course he would. So would I. And this was the case at his in-home daycare. I spoke with the provider, whom he loved, and she was as stubborn as you all, and said all kids must rest for those two hours. Since he was the oldest child at daycare, she was UNWILLING to make an exception for him. And since he regularly fell asleep, she did not listen to me, and ASSUMED that I was WRONG and she was RIGHT.

When he was at home, he never napped and was fine. He would go to bed at a reasonable hour (8:00) and wake up around 7:00. When he would go to daycare and had a nap, he consistently said "I'm not tired! I'm not tired!" at night and would be up until 10:30. This was not due to my LACK of parenting skills or ability. He was TRULY not tired.

Turns out, I pulled him from his daycare which he loved for this VERY reason. He is now at Montessori preschool and flourishing. They do not require a nap and he is doing lovely, on a regular schedule and learning/playing for two extra hours instead of being forced to nap. I am so happy I made this decision.

Parents know best. And if you are unwilling to meet a reasonable request in the best interest of the child then you shouldn't be practicing daycare.

Thank you!!!!!! Some people just aren't fit to be providers.

[Unregistered]

Some people really should not work with children or families. Nap time is not Breaktime- for providers to play on the computer! Some children are more active than others-my daughter is up all night on school nights, but when she is kept home, or is home on weekends has a beautiful sleep routine. It is clear to me what the problem is-She is awake for-what 4 hours of her day-why would she want to sleep at night. Not all parents have the liberty of staying home and caring for their own children-most of us put our children there because we have to! Get another job-if you can't put children's health before your break time!

Furious in MA!

For one you CANNOT force a child to nap, its merely a quiet time for those that need to nap or wind down. I'm CERTAIN the 4yr old in question is sleeping because he/she is exhausted because they are getting a lot of activity compared to being at home. For the children that don't nap most daycares have the child read on their mat ect. and fyi all providers use this time wisely to pick up, clean or plan activities.

The parents that complain about naps are always the ones that put them to bed early at night because they don't want to deal with them. And I hope when your child naps on the weekend your not on the computer, lol...

[Unregistered]

Hello, I was having problems with my son's daycare provider requiring my son to take long naps, or lay on a cot quietly for 2-3 hours each day.

My son is 4.5 yrs old, his bedtime is 8:30pm every day, and we wake up at 7:30am every day. He would get dropped off at daycare around 8:30am every weekday. This was an in-home daycare, and she cared for about 6 other children during the day, too. Age ranged from 2 yrs-5yrs. As soon as I began bringing my son there, he began having sleeping problems at night. Before, he was always OUT at 8:30pm, when I put him in bed. But with this new daycare and the naps, he wasn't falling asleep until 10pm, but we still had to wake up at 7:30 each day, so this wasn't working. I went to the provider, explained that my son did not need a 2 hour nap and I questioned her and asked why he wasn't allowed to play or watch a movie, or SOMETHING, she told me that she needed 2-3 hours for her "break" and all the kids were required to lay quietly. I took my son out of this daycare, and got him into another one where he does not have to take naps because he is FOUR YEARS OLD and no longer needs one. Sure, he fell asleep, if you were forced to lay on a cot for 2-3 hours, would you not fall asleep???? How freaking boring is that??

What I do not understand is why do you need a 2-3 hour break? I work 8+ hours a day, too, and I get a 30-min lunch @ work, I do not get 2-3 hours to do whatever I please! I clean, do laundry, get on the computer, enjoy free time, etc, on the WEEKENDS or nights after my child falls asleep. I don't take a big honkin' break right in the middle of my work day, who does that!!? I was paying this lady to care for my son, if I tell you he does not need a nap, then he doesn't. I pay you! I have to do what my boss @ work tells me, what is the difference here? I expect the providers to do what is best for my child, & I will be the one to tell you what is best for my child, thank you very much.

[Unregistered]

Hello, I was having problems with my son's daycare provider requiring my son to take long naps, or lay on a cot quietly for 2-3 hours each day.

My son is 4.5 yrs old, his bedtime is 8:30pm every day, and we wake up at 7:30am every day. He would get dropped off at daycare around 8:30am every weekday. This was an in-home daycare, and she cared for about 6 other children during the day, too. Age ranged from 2 yrs-5yrs. As soon as I began bringing my son there, he began having sleeping problems at night. Before, he was always OUT at 8:30pm, when I put him in bed. But with this new daycare and the naps, he wasn't falling asleep until 10pm, but we still had to wake up at 7:30 each day, so this wasn't working. I went to the provider, explained that my son did not need a 2 hour nap and I questioned her and asked why he wasn't allowed to play or watch a movie, or SOMETHING, she told me that she needed 2-3 hours for her "break" and all the kids were required to lay quietly. I took my son out of this daycare, and got him into another one where he does not have to take naps because he is FOUR YEARS OLD and no longer needs one. Sure, he fell asleep, if you were forced to lay on a cot for 2-3 hours, would you not fall asleep???? How freaking boring is that??

What I do not understand is why do you need a 2-3 hour break? I work 8+ hours a day, too, and I get a 30-min lunch @ work, I do not get 2-3 hours to do whatever I please! I clean, do laundry, get on the computer, enjoy free time, etc, on the WEEKENDS or nights after my child falls asleep. I don't take a big honkin' break right in the middle of my work day, who does that!!? I was paying this lady to care for my son, if I tell you he does not need a nap, then he doesn't. I pay you! I have to do what my boss @ work tells me, what is the difference here? I expect the providers to do what is best for my child, & I will be the one to tell you what is best for my child, thank you very much.
Be prepared...they will tell you that you are NOT the boss. You are paying for their service. If the program doesn't fit your needs, you need to find one that does. I hadn't ever realized quite how hot of a topic napping was until I started coming here.

[Mandy_Jane]

I was paying this lady to care for my son, if I tell you he does not need a nap, then he doesn't. I pay you! I have to do what my boss @ work tells me, what is the difference here? I expect the providers to do what is best for my child, & I will be the one to tell you what is best for my child, thank you very much.

If you were my at MY daycare, I would tell you to take your precious money & hit the road. YOU ARE NOT MY BOSS. "THANK YOU VERY MUCH!" I can very easily fill your position with a parent who knows how to read my handbook and follow my policies. No one puts a gun to your head and forces you to sign a contract for your daycare. It's up to YOU to determine where YOU want to put your child. Don't sign a contract and enroll your child if YOU are not happy with the rules. You WILL NEVER find a good daycare provider for your child if you keep up the attitude that you are their boss and they will do as they're told. If you want that, then you need to hire a nanny and shell out 4 times as much as you are paying for daycare right now. Parents like you are the ones we providers have nightmares over.

[Unregistered]

Ok, you're right about the contract thing. It was not explained well in this provider's contract.

She stated that "Naps vary depending on daily activities, but usually last 2-3 hours and children are allowed to stay awake but must remain quiet if they cannot sleep" This is very vague and I should've addressed this at first, but I understood "children are allowed to stay awake but must remain quiet" as - my child will be allowed to play quietly with other children his age while the younger ones sleep. When actually, it was "your child will lay there and do nothing for 2-3 hours while I take care of personal things". My son was allowed to "read a book" while laying there. He cannot read, and no book you give him will entertain him and keep him quiet for 2-3 hours, he is going to get bored, and he will want to get up, but you will lay him back down and tell him to hush and he will eventually fall asleep out of boredom.

I was angry at this provider because she was disrupting my son's normal sleep schedule so that she could take her break. I do not get this. Why are you expecting us to pay you when you are taking such a large break? This is just unacceptable. & yes, technically, the parents are your boss. We write your paychecks, so make sure you make your nap policy very clear, and make sure that it caters to children who are old enough to stay awake. Make sure you are making the parents happy, the children happy, and if you are not happy then maybe this isn't a good line of work for you.

You do not need such a large break, nobody needs a break like that. You do not need to make a child lay there so that you can accomplish things that every other parent/person-who-has-a-job makes time to accomplish on the weekends, or after work. That is just ridiculous, and I refuse to pay someone to take a break like that while my son is laying there.

[Meyou]

Ok, you're right about the contract thing. It was not explained well in this provider's contract.

She stated that "Naps vary depending on daily activities, but usually last 2-3 hours and children are allowed to stay awake but must remain quiet if they cannot sleep" This is very vague and I should've addressed this at first, but I understood "children are allowed to stay awake but must remain quiet" as - my child will be allowed to play quietly with other children his age while the younger ones sleep. When actually, it was "your child will lay there and do nothing for 2-3 hours while I take care of personal things". My son was allowed to "read a book" while laying there. He cannot read, and no book you give him will entertain him and keep him quiet for 2-3 hours, he is going to get bored, and he will want to get up, but you will lay him back down and tell him to hush and he will eventually fall asleep out of boredom.

I was angry at this provider because she was disrupting my son's normal sleep schedule so that she could take her break. I do not get this. Why are you expecting us to pay you when you are taking such a large break? This is just unacceptable. & yes, technically, the parents are your boss. We write your paychecks, so make sure you make your nap policy very clear, and make sure that it caters to children who are old enough to stay awake. Make sure you are making the parents happy, the children happy, and if you are not happy then maybe this isn't a good line of work for you.

You do not need such a large break, nobody needs a break like that. You do not need to make a child lay there so that you can accomplish things that every other parent/person-who-has-a-job makes time to accomplish on the weekends, or after work. That is just ridiculous, and I refuse to pay someone to take a break like that while my son is laying there.

During my HUGE "break" I normally do the following:

Dishes from lunch and the morning.
Clean the dining room. Wipe down table, chairs, sweep and mop.
Prep snack for the PM.
Sweep hallways and front entrance.
Clean DC bathroom.
Paperwork
Eat lunch
Sterilize any toys that were mouthed that morning.
Prep any craft materials for the next day.
Lay out jackets, hats, mitts and boots for pm walk.

Lots of time left there to eat bon bons and watch soap operas. :D

We also work 10+ hour days NOT 8 hour days like the majority of the Monday to Friday workforce. Some of us work 12+ hour days...something I couldn't do. We also work very long stretches with no break at all. How often at your job do you need to "hold it" until you nearly burst because you can't leave your desk. It happens daily in our profession.

I DO NOT work for you. I provide a service and you pay for that service under my terms. The onus is on you to make sure you understand those terms and ask questions. If you don't like the terms you need to look elsewhere for service that fits your needs. :)

I totally understand that you want your child to go to bed easily for you but your child needs a rest and your DCP deserves a break. With all due respect if your child is falling asleep then they're tired and need a nap. I've had true non-nappers and they don't fall asleep.

[nannyde]

HeI expect the providers to do what is best for my child, & I will be the one to tell you what is best for my child, thank you very much.

You say: I know my baby best and I know what's best for my baby. :D

I say: I know my business best and I know what's best for my business. :D

What's best for my business is a LONG full afternoon break. It wouldn't work for your baby that you know best but it does work for my business that I know best.

[Unregistered]

That IS really all it comes down to, that I need to find a provider who fits the needs of my child. But a lot of providers have these nap requirements, or "lay there for up to 3 hours" requirement. It made it difficult to find one that really didn't require that she take a long break. I understand that this is your business and you make the rules, I just don't understand how you expect to have happy customers, happy people that are willing to pay you and keep paying you, when you do not offer any services for children who do not need naps. No, my son does not need a nap. He will eventually fall asleep if he is made to lie quietly for such a long time. I would even do that, I guess I should make time at work for my three hour nap. I know you need time to clean up, do your paperwork, etc. But that should not take 2-3 hours, and you do not require that children sleep so that you can have that time. You make time as you go along.

I actually have hired a nanny to care for my son while I am at work, I ended that because I realized that I wanted my son to be around other kids, and get used to playing with kids his age. I completely understand that you need to take care of other things, but sometimes (all of the time, for me) these things need to be taken care of after work, or on the weekends. I take my work home with me every day; I work on it after I'd had time with my son, after he goes to sleep. On the weekends, I can stay up later after he falls asleep, because I do not have work the next day. I have worked 12 hour shifts. Before my son was born, I was at my office until 9pm sometimes. (I am an attorney and sometimes extensive research is required). I DID NOT take a 2-3 hour break. That is absurd. How would it be a 12 hour shift if I am taking a 3 hour break? That makes this a four hour shift, a long break, and then a five hour shift.

It is not required in my state that every child under a certain age have this quiet time. It is truly very difficult to find a provider that does not need this large break. I liked the "home-setting" and wanted an in-home daycare for him. This is not an option for us due to the nap thing, I refuse to change my son's great sleep schedule to accommodate a daycare. It is hard work to get a child on a sleep schedule, I will not be ruining that for the sake of someone's break. I am your client, you are not mine. I have my son in enrolled in a center now, as you know, this was not my first choice, but I am happy about it now. This center has a four year old class where the children do not have to rest quietly if they do not need to. My son does not get cranky and irritable due to the lack of a nap. He truly does not need a nap.

I don't appreciate anyone telling me that my child needs a nap after I have told them that he doesn't. I just want providers to PROVIDE what a child needs. This is the job you choose, you need to do that job. If you are unable to do that, your services are useless to me and I do not need you. Meaning, you will lose a client and lose money.

[nannyde]

That IS really all it comes down to, that I need to find a provider who fits the needs of my child. But a lot of providers have these nap requirements, or "lay there for up to 3 hours" requirement. It made it difficult to find one that really didn't require that she take a long break. I understand that this is your business and you make the rules, I just don't understand how you expect to have happy customers, happy people that are willing to pay you and keep paying you, when you do not offer any services for children who do not need naps. No, my son does not need a nap. He will eventually fall asleep if he is made to lie quietly for such a long time. I would even do that, I guess I should make time at work for my three hour nap. I know you need time to clean up, do your paperwork, etc. But that should not take 2-3 hours, and you do not require that children sleep so that you can have that time. You make time as you go along. I actually have hired a nanny to care for my son while I am at work, I ended that because I realized that I wanted my son to be around other kids, and get used to playing with kids his age. I completely understand that you need to take care of other things, but sometimes (all of the time, for me) these things need to be taken care of after work, or on the weekends. I take my work home with me every day; I work on it after I'd had time with my son, after he goes to sleep. On the weekends, I can stay up later after he falls asleep, because I do not have work the next day. I have worked 12 hour shifts. Before my son was born, I was at my office until 9pm sometimes. (I am an attorney and sometimes extensive research is required). I DID NOT take a 2-3 hour break. That is absurd. How would it be a 12 hour shift if I am taking a 3 hour break? That makes this a four hour shift, a long break, and then a five hour shift. It is not required in my state that every child under a certain age have this quiet time. It is truly very difficult to find a provider that does not need this large break. I liked the "home-setting" and wanted an in-home daycare for him. This is not an option for us due to the nap thing, I refuse to change my son's great sleep schedule to accommodate a daycare. It is hard work to get a child on a sleep schedule, I will not be ruining that for the sake of someone's break. I am your client, you are not mine. I have my son in enrolled in a center now, as you know, this was not my first choice, but I am happy about it now. This center has a four year old class where the children do not have to rest quietly if they do not need to. My son does not get cranky and irritable due to the lack of a nap. He truly does not need a nap. I don't appreciate anyone telling me that my child needs a nap after I have told them that he doesn't. I just want providers to PROVIDE what a child needs. This is the job you choose, you need to do that job. If you are unable to do that, your services are useless to me and I do not need you. Meaning, you will lose a client and lose money.

But we are happy to loose the money when you leave. That's the part you don't get. If we don't provide the "no nap" service then we KNOW when you say your child doesn't need a nap (whether as an infant or a five year old... same difference to us) then we KNOW you are going to move onto what works for your kid.

You want home providers to offer a service but you couldn't find one that did. That should tell you something right there. Just because YOU don't believe the provider should have a three hour break mid day doesn't mean the majority of the people on the ground actually DOING child care don't believe it. You are looking for something in the market that precious few provide.

Believe me you... if you were a provider who was willing to do a twelve hour haul without a BIG break mid day... you would be killing it in your business. Providers KNOW that we loose kids once the parent believes the child no longer needs a nap. We GLADLY have them move on..... it doesn't bother us a bit and it doesn't matter to us to what AGE your child is.

I would give up this business TODAY if I couldn't find customers that had children who needed a FULL afternoon nap every single day.

I can't do it so I don't offer it. It's not personal. Doesn't have a single thing to do with you... your kid... what your kid needs. I don't do nap for the sake of the children. I do nap for the sake of me.

You have a right to believe that I am wrong. You have a right to believe that my needing this long break is bad business.

I have the right to believe I'm doing it right for the last eighteen years and making bank doing it right. My money hasn't been affected a single thin dime over nap in 18 years. You saying it does or it should doesn't affect my bank balance at the end of the month.

[Unregistered]

The whole "I have the right to believe/you have the right to believe" does not fix the fact that it is DIFFICULT to find a provider to care for a child for a full day, without naps. I just wish that providers were a little flexible. And yes, it took me a good deal of time to find a provider (had to be a center) that did not need the children nap so they could get a large break.

Let me show you an example of why I think this is wrong: You hire a landscaping crew to work on your yard for 5(about half your day, correct?) hours every Tuesday(9:00 am to 2:00 pm). You come home and find that they are taking a 1.5 hour break in the middle of their 5 hours(about half your break, correct?). This means that they are not working on your yard for 5 hours. They claim that they need this 1.5 hours to clean their equipment, eat some lunch, and just chill a little bit and get prepared for the next 2 hours of yard work. You would say "What?!" And you would fire them and hire a crew that actually worked on your yard for 5 hours.

Yes, perhaps this landscaping company would stay in business because some of their clients are still happy with the overall result of the yard work, and they don't mind the break. But, some people would NOT be happy about paying this company for 5 hours, when they only actually work on the yard for 3.5 hours. The company that needs the extra-long break would not be nearly as profitable as the company that worked 5 hours. All that other company would need to do is advertise "We Do Not Take 1.5 Hour Breaks When We Are Being Paid To Work 5 Hours". And they would win more clients.

I KNOW you need a break. But 3 hours, really? Maybe you could put in a 30 minute or an hour long movie for the older kids and take your break then. Parents are paying you A LOT of their hard-earned money because they think you are working equally as hard. I am just asking that some of you consider the needs of 4-5 year olds who are not yet in school and also are old enough to stay awake during the day.

This was truly a horrible issue with every in-home provider I considered. Why does it have to be so difficult to find someone to accept $600-$900 a month on the grounds that my child be cared for and NOT be told to lie on a cot for 3 hours? This is really a limited service, it SHOULD NOT be this difficult to find a provider to provide service to the mother of a normal four year old who doesn't need a nap. He is starting school next year, he will not be allowed to nap then. He does not need it, he functions great without it. He is happy, healthy, active and he is tired at 8:30pm. Can't any of you be willing to accommodate these children?

The center my son is at now is expensive, compared to the average price in my area. I know there are older children, who are not in school, who do not need naps. And I know that not all of the mothers of these children can afford to pay for this center my son attends. It would be such a great thing if you considered other options for children who do not nap. If you've been banking on the MUST TAKE LONG BREAK policy, maybe you should try banking on things for older kids to do during little-kid-nap-time. You make like the result of your efforts. I would guess it would make for an even better bank account and happier clients.

[Zoe]

Oh my goodness! What is WITH THIS THREAD!? Do parents really get their answers from this thread regarding 4 year old nap times? Everyone sing it with me!!!: This is the thread that doesn't end....yes it goes on and on my friend! :p:ouch::D:lol:

[Mandy_Jane]

I have worked 12 hour shifts. Before my son was born, I was at my office until 9pm sometimes. (I am an attorney and sometimes extensive research is required). I DID NOT take a 2-3 hour break. That is absurd. How would it be a 12 hour shift if I am taking a 3 hour break? That makes this a four hour shift, a long break, and then a five hour shift.

Obviously your mind can not encompass the thought that having 6-10 children around CONTINUOUSLY, is not the same as having QUITE time alone doing research on a case. I could handle 12 hours of ME time ANY DAY with no break. It's a no brainer, But add 10 kids in to the mix who need CONSTANT attention, diaper changes, feedings etc, and it's a WHOLE DIFFERENT BALLGAME. Why on earth you would compare childcare to quite time researching a case is beyond me. They are NO WHERE NEAR the same and do not require the same mental commitment.


I don't appreciate anyone telling me that my child needs a nap after I have told them that he doesn't. I just want providers to PROVIDE what a child needs. This is the job you choose, you need to do that job. If you are unable to do that, your services are useless to me and I do not need you. Meaning, you will lose a client and lose money.

And I don't appreciate anyone telling me how to run my business. Plain and simple. Read my policies and take them or leave them. That's up to you. I assume you DO know how to read? Choose the childcare facility that works for you and your child after you have read and agreed to their policies.

[lilrugrats]

Question:

Family daycare providers, who really gets a 3 hour break? I mean when I have infants I have no break ( for the last 6 years actually, this is the first time in a long time that ALL my kids are sleeping at one time, and in a few months another newborn starts, so there goes that "break")

And when I am not taking care of infants, or checking on the kids, changing poop that happens while they sleep ( a big one this month!?) I am getting art set up for next art, preparing snack and dinner. I also email parents, upload pictures to website from morning FOR parents, and then maybe I can go pee by myself, put my feet up and relax for 30 minutes of a 12 hour day.

Now I know parents work, lets say 8 hour days with 30 minute lunch. After work for these parents, who preps for the next days work, cleans up their work station, and does work related things at night? MOST leave after 8 hours, go pee during day whenever they want, eat lunch in silence, maybe even go out to eat, then work a few more hours, and head home. They DO NOT however, stay after work, not getting paid to clean their desk, get things ready for next day, etc. If these are things us as providers should do after work, then really I would work 13-14 hour days.

Just a thought.

[nannyde]

The whole "I have the right to believe/you have the right to believe" does not fix the fact that it is DIFFICULT to find a provider to care for a child for a full day, without naps. I just wish that providers were a little flexible. And yes, it took me a good deal of time to find a provider (had to be a center) that did not need the children nap so they could get a large break. Let me show you an example of why I think this is wrong: You hire a landscaping crew to work on your yard for 5(about half your day, correct?) hours every Tuesday(9:00 am to 2:00 pm). You come home and find that they are taking a 1.5 hour break in the middle of their 5 hours(about half your break, correct?). This means that they are not working on your yard for 5 hours. They claim that they need this 1.5 hours to clean their equipment, eat some lunch, and just chill a little bit and get prepared for the next 2 hours of yard work. You would say "What?!" And you would fire them and hire a crew that actually worked on your yard for 5 hours.
Yes, perhaps this landscaping company would stay in business because some of their clients are still happy with the overall result of the yard work, and they don't mind the break. But, some people would NOT be happy about paying this company for 5 hours, when they only actually work on the yard for 3.5 hours. The company that needs the extra-long break would not be nearly as profitable as the company that worked 5 hours. All that other company would need to do is advertise "We Do Not Take 1.5 Hour Breaks When We Are Being Paid To Work 5 Hours". And they would win more clients.
I KNOW you need a break. But 3 hours, really? Maybe you could put in a 30 minute or an hour long movie for the older kids and take your break then. Parents are paying you A LOT of their hard-earned money because they think you are working equally as hard. I am just asking that some of you consider the needs of 4-5 year olds who are not yet in school and also are old enough to stay awake during the day. This was truly a horrible issue with every in-home provider I considered. Why does it have to be so difficult to find someone to accept $600-$900 a month on the grounds that my child be cared for and NOT be told to lie on a cot for 3 hours? This is really a limited service, it SHOULD NOT be this difficult to find a provider to provide service to the mother of a normal four year old who doesn't need a nap. He is starting school next year, he will not be allowed to nap then. He does not need it, he functions great without it. He is happy, healthy, active and he is tired at 8:30pm. Can't any of you be willing to accommodate these children? The center my son is at now is expensive, compared to the average price in my area. I know there are older children, who are not in school, who do not need naps. And I know that not all of the mothers of these children can afford to pay for this center my son attends. It would be such a great thing if you considered other options for children who do not nap. If you've been banking on the MUST TAKE LONG BREAK policy, maybe you should try banking on things for older kids to do during little-kid-nap-time. You make like the result of your efforts. I would guess it would make for an even better bank account and happier clients.

Your analogy isn't right.

Let's say you hired a landscaper for five hours of work on Tuesday and he said to you.... I'm going to do the five hours but I will do it between 9-12 .. take a three hour break... and then do it from 3-5. Same amount of money but we will take a big break in the middle of it.

You pay for the five hours and you get five hours of work.

The part you don't GET is that we are NOT charging for the kids to be up during that time. My rates are based on a NINE hour max day with a 2.5 hour break in the middle. So I figure the break into the rate just like the landscaper in my analogy. I'm willing to "house" and supervise your child during that time but I am not willing to do the intense supervision and interaction during that time like I do when everyone is up.

You say " I am just asking that some of you consider the needs of 4-5 year olds who are not yet in school and also are old enough to stay awake during the day."

Friend the four and five year olds are a small small amount of the "keep my kid up at nap" requests. You think that's the age but MANY parents believe it is actually their infant or toddler who doesn't need a nap. There's NO age limit to it. I've had this request with a six month old. (I tell you no lies) Your child being four isn't any more of a special request then the parent with a 14 month old who is requesting it. It's all the same to me... it means no breaky breaky and Nan needs her breaky.

This is really a limited service, it SHOULD NOT be this difficult to find a provider to provide service to the mother of a normal four year old who doesn't need a nap.

Friend... you believe that but I think maybe you haven't actually cared for children who were from mulitple families of multiple ages. It's NOT the same as caring for your own kid or your friends and family kids. You think it's a really limited service.... but really it's a lot of hard work. I've been at it for 18 years and I haven't missed a day of work in 17 years cept my vacay and holiday.

I KNOW how hard this is... It might be something you think is limited and most likely you could manage to do it on a schedule like you suggested... but what you are seeing in real life is that there are few like you who can manage it. The real reason you can't find it is because it's too hard to do for MOST.

Can you tell me why you think the providers you are asking to do this won't? Do you have any insight of why provider after provider would rather not have your money then have your money and have your kid up for ten straight hours a day? You are saying it's incredibly difficult to find. Why if it's as easy as you suggest and it's really being paid for in regular day care pay.. why can't you find someone who is willing to do it? Why did you have to hire a Nanny or put your child into a Center to find it?

[MyAngels]

The whole "I have the right to believe/you have the right to believe" does not fix the fact that it is DIFFICULT to find a provider to care for a child for a full day, without naps. I just wish that providers were a little flexible. And yes, it took me a good deal of time to find a provider (had to be a center) that did not need the children nap so they could get a large break.

Let me show you an example of why I think this is wrong: You hire a landscaping crew to work on your yard for 5(about half your day, correct?) hours every Tuesday(9:00 am to 2:00 pm). You come home and find that they are taking a 1.5 hour break in the middle of their 5 hours(about half your break, correct?). This means that they are not working on your yard for 5 hours. They claim that they need this 1.5 hours to clean their equipment, eat some lunch, and just chill a little bit and get prepared for the next 2 hours of yard work. You would say "What?!" And you would fire them and hire a crew that actually worked on your yard for 5 hours.

Yes, perhaps this landscaping company would stay in business because some of their clients are still happy with the overall result of the yard work, and they don't mind the break. But, some people would NOT be happy about paying this company for 5 hours, when they only actually work on the yard for 3.5 hours. The company that needs the extra-long break would not be nearly as profitable as the company that worked 5 hours. All that other company would need to do is advertise "We Do Not Take 1.5 Hour Breaks When We Are Being Paid To Work 5 Hours". And they would win more clients.

I KNOW you need a break. But 3 hours, really? Maybe you could put in a 30 minute or an hour long movie for the older kids and take your break then. Parents are paying you A LOT of their hard-earned money because they think you are working equally as hard. I am just asking that some of you consider the needs of 4-5 year olds who are not yet in school and also are old enough to stay awake during the day.

This was truly a horrible issue with every in-home provider I considered. Why does it have to be so difficult to find someone to accept $600-$900 a month on the grounds that my child be cared for and NOT be told to lie on a cot for 3 hours? This is really a limited service, it SHOULD NOT be this difficult to find a provider to provide service to the mother of a normal four year old who doesn't need a nap. He is starting school next year, he will not be allowed to nap then. He does not need it, he functions great without it. He is happy, healthy, active and he is tired at 8:30pm. Can't any of you be willing to accommodate these children?

The center my son is at now is expensive, compared to the average price in my area. I know there are older children, who are not in school, who do not need naps. And I know that not all of the mothers of these children can afford to pay for this center my son attends. It would be such a great thing if you considered other options for children who do not nap. If you've been banking on the MUST TAKE LONG BREAK policy, maybe you should try banking on things for older kids to do during little-kid-nap-time. You make like the result of your efforts. I would guess it would make for an even better bank account and happier clients.

It seems to me you are saying that you want to pay the lower rates offered by home providers, but you want them to offer the same service (i.e., no rest or nap time required) of the larger, more expensive centers.

As Nan said, my rates reflect the fact that I require a rest period each day. If I were going to accomodate children who did not need that rest period then I would have to raise my rates to the same rates that the larger, no nap required, centers charge.

It does seem that the majority of conflicts between providers and parents always comes down to money.

[nannyde]

The center my son is at now is expensive, compared to the average price in my area. I know there are older children, who are not in school, who do not need naps. And I know that not all of the mothers of these children can afford to pay for this center my son attends. It would be such a great thing if you considered other options for children who do not nap. If you've been banking on the MUST TAKE LONG BREAK policy, maybe you should try banking on things for older kids to do during little-kid-nap-time. You make like the result of your efforts. I would guess it would make for an even better bank account and happier clients.

I don't like older children. My business is not set up to accomodate them because... duh duh duh daaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh They don't take a full afternoon nap.

If I did the options for kids that did not nap I would have to hire out nap time every day. The parents would have to pay the price you pay now for the expensive center. Your center charges more money so they have adults there to cover the "no nap" part of their service.

What you can't find is the cheap home day care that offers the expensive "no nap" service your center offers. You landed in a place where you paid more money. If you believe that this service would be a benefit to the public then feel free to open a home child care at home child care rates and market towards the kids you feel are so underserved.

If you REALLY believe in it then do it. You see a place in the market for the service. Put your belief to work. You will be full quicker than you can say "no naps here". There's a TON of people wanting their baby to five year old up all day. They will be knocking down your door trying to get in as long as it's cheap or at most the price of a regular home child care that doesn't offer a no nap service.

You think the service will be for four and five year olds but soon enough you will have parents coming to you with infants, toddlers, and three year olds saying "my child is perfectly healthy... fine... happy and in bed by 8:30 every day if they don't have a nap. Take my baby... my toddler.. my three year old... do it for the sake of the children"

[Country Kids]

I love novels!

[Unregistered]

Can you tell me why you think the providers you are asking to do this won't? Do you have any insight of why provider after provider would rather not have your money then have your money and have your kid up for ten straight hours a day? You are saying it's incredibly difficult to find. Why if it's as easy as you suggest and it's really being paid for in regular day care pay.. why can't you find someone who is willing to do it? Why did you have to hire a Nanny or put your child into a Center to find it?

That is EXACTLY what I am asking. Why is this so difficult? I think they need break from all the kids, yes. But why is it not possible to turn on a movie for the older kiddos, or give them a quiet activity, while you take your break? I sincerely DO NOT want my child to lie on a cot for that long. It is boring, and it disrupts his already established sleep patterns at home. He can watch a movie or play quietly while others sleep. He knows what it means to be quiet, because others are sleeping. As far as the landscaping example goes, your analogy is incorrect. If I were paying you to care for my son for nine hours, then you are being paid to care for him for nine hours. You are saying that I would pay you for nine hours, however my son would actually be in your home for 12 hours. (9+3=12). But no, he is in your home for 9 hours and you are taking a 3 hour break during this 9 hours. Meaning that you really are only caring for my son for 6 hours, because you have told him to lie quietly on his cot for 3 hours. (9-3=6).
& Mandy Jane, I don't think it is necessary to attempt to insult me with your sarcastic remarks. "I assume you DO know how to read? " What is up with that? If you want me to edit your grammar on that post, I can and will. Just let me know. I will be all over that.
I am not trying to insult anyone here, and I would like it very much if you did not insult me.
I appreciate that you all care enough for children to open your home up to them. But you are running a business, you are providing a service. You need to stop being so selfish and look at what your clients need, and compare that to what you need. There needs to be a good balance. And with most of the providers I looked at, the needs of the provider were put well above the clients. They wanted a break, no exceptions. They would try to explain to me that my child DOES need a nap. They would try to tell me that yes, they are negotiable. But when I questioned them in detail what my child would be doing during "nap time", they failed to prove that my child would not be lying down doing nothing at all.

I am obviously not finding any answers here. I had to put my son in a center, when I preferred the "home-setting" and the personalization you get with a home provider. I was not able to find any provider willing to actually budge on this nap time/break time thing. That is a very large break. And yes, your job is quite different then mine. But why did you choose this kind of work if you cannot keep up with children for a full 8 hours, even? I could not do that, so I chose to NOT open a daycare in my home. If I thought that I could handle 6-8 kids (homes that I looked at had this # of kids, I definitely do NOT want my son in a home with more children than that. That is a chaotic mess) in my home then I would consider the fact that I would need to actually care for them for at least 9 hours. Meaning, that I would need to tend to children who were old enough to stay awake during the day. I would require that children who get cranky have naps. I would consult with the parent about their child's crankiness and there would be a solution. I would not "drop" the family because a child functions well w/out a nap. That IS bad business. That is cruel to the child. If they get used to a daycare, love the kids they play with, love the providers, why would you drop them because they do not need a nap?
Like I said, I am getting no answers here.
Based on the info you HAVE provided, this is my conclusion:

My son will stay in a center. In-home providers are unable to fully care for my child because they cannot handle children who do not require a nap. They would much rather disrupt his sleeping habits rather than disrupt their break.

[daycare]

I don't like older children. My business is not set up to accomodate them because... duh duh duh daaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh They don't take a full afternoon nap.

If I did the options for kids that did not nap I would have to hire out nap time every day. The parents would have to pay the price you pay now for the expensive center. Your center charges more money so they have adults there to cover the "no nap" part of their service.

What you can't find is the cheap home day care that offers the expensive "no nap" service your center offers. You landed in a place where you paid more money. If you believe that this service would be a benefit to the public then feel free to open a home child care at home child care rates and market towards the kids you feel are so underserved.

If you REALLY believe in it then do it. You see a place in the market for the service. Put your belief to work. You will be full quicker than you can say "no naps here". There's a TON of people wanting their baby to five year old up all day. They will be knocking down your door trying to get in as long as it's cheap or at most the price of a regular home child care that doesn't offer a no nap service.

You think the service will be for four and five year olds but soon enough you will have parents coming to you with infants, toddlers, and three year olds saying "my child is perfectly healthy... fine... happy and in bed by 8:30 every day if they don't have a nap. Take my baby... my toddler.. my three year old... do it for the sake of the children"
I love nannyde!

Priceless

[laundrymom]

My naptime. Break is 1 hour 40 minutes. If noone calls, knocks, poops, or cries. This is the time I fill out paperwork, clean off tables, wash any gooey toys, wipe down the bathroom. Finally pee myself, toss a sandwich to my stomach, and lotion my hands. With the remaining 7 1/2 minutes I sit and stare at the sleeping angels.

[Unregistered]

I was willing to pay for good care. I was actually paying the previous provider well above the average rate. I am not looking for "cheap" ways to keep my son up all day. You guys are STILL not getting it. I am not asking that you keep him awake while I am at work, so that when I get home, I can just put him straight to bed. I spend time with my son in the evenings, and I thoroughly enjoy it. I hate that I even have to work; I love my job, but I love my little boy wayyy more. I am not wanting an in-home daycare provider so that I can save money. I will pay what I paid at the center, or actually even more, because I LOVE the personalization you get at the in-home daycare, and the stability. I love that I know that Ms. Sally will be there like she always is and will care for my son, and not a 20 year old girl who was just fired from her waitress job so she thought she'd work at a center and see how that is.
I am willing to pay for that kind of thing. I just couldn't find one who could meet the needs of my very normal son. He didn't fight, he didn't scream, he gets along well with others, he doesn't get cranky. He just didn't need the nap. It messed up his sleeping habits at home, and I worked so hard to get him on a great schedule. Being told to lie on a cot for 3 hours will mean that he will eventually fall asleep, therefore not fall asleep at home until 10pm or later.

[lilrugrats]

I have had 4-5 year olds in the past that don't nap. They do however have a cot, blanket and lay down after lunch. If they are awake after about 30 minutes, I do get them up out of the room and let them read or sit quietly with me. This being said, I have had 4-5 year old parents NOT want them to watch tv during this time. So I do not even turn on the TV, even for me. If they are loud then I lay them back down and they know this. Usually they will color, read or something quiet.

Sometimes they will fall asleep on the cot, and I think the at least 30 minutes of laying down is good for anyone! I wish I could just "lay" there for 30 minutes. :)

BUT during my "break" if the child is loud, or rude, he will lay down. SOMETIMES i had the older 4-5 year olds entertain the infants ( not hold or feed, just be by) and that was nice for a 2 minute potty break!

So maybe these providers that don't allow the older kids up, have had issues with parents wanting their kids to be "doing" something during this time, or the kids ARE not quiet and respectful??

[Blackcat31]

I was willing to pay for good care. I was actually paying the previous provider well above the average rate. I am not looking for "cheap" ways to keep my son up all day. You guys are STILL not getting it. I am not asking that you keep him awake while I am at work, so that when I get home, I can just put him straight to bed. I spend time with my son in the evenings, and I thoroughly enjoy it. I hate that I even have to work; I love my job, but I love my little boy wayyy more. I am not wanting an in-home daycare provider so that I can save money. I will pay what I paid at the center, or actually even more, because I LOVE the personalization you get at the in-home daycare, and the stability. I love that I know that Ms. Sally will be there like she always is and will care for my son, and not a 20 year old girl who was just fired from her waitress job so she thought she'd work at a center and see how that is.
I am willing to pay for that kind of thing. I just couldn't find one who could meet the needs of my very normal son. He didn't fight, he didn't scream, he gets along well with others, he doesn't get cranky. He just didn't need the nap. It messed up his sleeping habits at home, and I worked so hard to get him on a great schedule. Being told to lie on a cot for 3 hours will mean that he will eventually fall asleep, therefore not fall asleep at home until 10pm or later.

I am sorry your experience with family child care did not work out for you. From your posts, I gather you are the rare parent that really is trying to work WITH your provider to find a happy medium or at least some sort of compromise to your situation.

Most parents are not willing to put in the face time with their child and would never be willing to pay for the type of care they really want.

If you were a parent who came to me and discussed this issue, I would be more than happy to try and accommodate you. I do ask that all my daycare children nap/rest during the day...but NEVER for 3 hours at a time. I have a 90 minute rest period. I used to offer the TV/movie option for the older ones but I no longer have a TV (a whole other topic) but most my older kids would not be quiet so the younger ones could nap and licensing requires ALL the children to be in one room or one area so loud older kids wouldnt work for me.

I do have a couple 4-5 year olds now who do not sleep. They do rest however and listen to the audio books I play for the 90 minutes of rest time. In the summer months, I have a helper who takes those non-sleepers outside for the rest period. In the winter months I cannot afford to hire a helper and do not have that option.

I'd love to have parents pay me $600-900 per month for one full time child that is over age two. For me, that would be fantastic. Heck, I would take any age kid if the parent paid me that rate.

I do try very hard to be flexible for parents but if one parent's requests become too disruptive for the group, then I can't do it. I know in my area, there are lots of providers who offer care without naps/rest times. I am just not one of them. At least not all the time. :o

I also think Nan is just trying to point out that SHE personally does not offer a no nap service but others out there somewhere probably do. It costs more sometimes but I am sure it is out there.

[Unregistered]

Ok, you're right about the contract thing. It was not explained well in this provider's contract.

She stated that "Naps vary depending on daily activities, but usually last 2-3 hours and children are allowed to stay awake but must remain quiet if they cannot sleep" This is very vague and I should've addressed this at first, but I understood "children are allowed to stay awake but must remain quiet" as - my child will be allowed to play quietly with other children his age while the younger ones sleep. When actually, it was "your child will lay there and do nothing for 2-3 hours while I take care of personal things". My son was allowed to "read a book" while laying there. He cannot read, and no book you give him will entertain him and keep him quiet for 2-3 hours, he is going to get bored, and he will want to get up, but you will lay him back down and tell him to hush and he will eventually fall asleep out of boredom.

I was angry at this provider because she was disrupting my son's normal sleep schedule so that she could take her break. I do not get this. Why are you expecting us to pay you when you are taking such a large break? This is just unacceptable. & yes, technically, the parents are your boss. We write your paychecks, so make sure you make your nap policy very clear, and make sure that it caters to children who are old enough to stay awake. Make sure you are making the parents happy, the children happy, and if you are not happy then maybe this isn't a good line of work for you.

You do not need such a large break, nobody needs a break like that. You do not need to make a child lay there so that you can accomplish things that every other parent/person-who-has-a-job makes time to accomplish on the weekends, or after work. That is just ridiculous, and I refuse to pay someone to take a break like that while my son is laying there.


This is hysterical, you lie in this post and completely contradict yourself. Ok so if your son just laid there for 3 hours, that would mean he didn't sleep meaning he would go to bed a normal time. You say he doesn't need a nap and won't take one, but then you say he would be so bord he would fall asleep, LOL. You go back and forth!

The real story is it was quiet time, and after a busy day he went to sleep like any other normal child. Meaning he wanted to stay up a normal time at night, and you wanted him down early so you wouldn't have to deal with him. If he stays up later at night, you let him sleep in till the last minute....so you also don't have to deal with him in the morning, so you can get ready for work. LOL.

Yep we have all had parents just like you!

[lil angels]

Question:

Family daycare providers, who really gets a 3 hour break? I mean when I have infants I have no break ( for the last 6 years actually, this is the first time in a long time that ALL my kids are sleeping at one time, and in a few months another newborn starts, so there goes that "break")

And when I am not taking care of infants, or checking on the kids, changing poop that happens while they sleep ( a big one this month!?) I am getting art set up for next art, preparing snack and dinner. I also email parents, upload pictures to website from morning FOR parents, and then maybe I can go pee by myself, put my feet up and relax for 30 minutes of a 12 hour day.

Now I know parents work, lets say 8 hour days with 30 minute lunch. After work for these parents, who preps for the next days work, cleans up their work station, and does work related things at night? MOST leave after 8 hours, go pee during day whenever they want, eat lunch in silence, maybe even go out to eat, then work a few more hours, and head home. They DO NOT however, stay after work, not getting paid to clean their desk, get things ready for next day, etc. If these are things us as providers should do after work, then really I would work 13-14 hour days.

Just a thought.

Don't forget to add in the groc shopping, shopping for the kids birthday presents,Christmas presents and such add that to the time you are talking about.

This is not something we will ever win with these parents on here so why bother.

[laundrymom]

So your whole issue is that although you love the home environment, the bonds and friendships formed, the smaller numbers, limited illness exposure and all around family type feel,.... You felt him napping at family childcare was disrupting his sleep pattern? So because he got two to three hours sleep at providers he didn't go to bed until 10ish? I understand that your son is a great kid and many parents feel the same as you.
They truly would stay with their kids at least part time if their jobs allowed for it and could swing is money wise. I have the perfect solution for you! You could keep him in a family childcare and take advantage of the family vibe, smaller numbers, and general things you loved, and keep his 8/9ish bedtime!!! Just wake him 3 hours before you do now, plus that would give you even MORE quality time with him each day.

I know I know great idea isn't it?? Win win. More time for mom and son, bedtimes stay the same and you get the environment you wanted for him to begin with :Sunny:

I was willing to pay for good care. I was actually paying the previous provider well above the average rate. I am not looking for "cheap" ways to keep my son up all day. You guys are STILL not getting it. I am not asking that you keep him awake while I am at work, so that when I get home, I can just put him straight to bed. I spend time with my son in the evenings, and I thoroughly enjoy it. I hate that I even have to work; I love my job, but I love my little boy wayyy more. I am not wanting an in-home daycare provider so that I can save money. I will pay what I paid at the center, or actually even more, because I LOVE the personalization you get at the in-home daycare, and the stability. I love that I know that Ms. Sally will be there like she always is and will care for my son, and not a 20 year old girl who was just fired from her waitress job so she thought she'd work at a center and see how that is.
I am willing to pay for that kind of thing. I just couldn't find one who could meet the needs of my very normal son. He didn't fight, he didn't scream, he gets along well with others, he doesn't get cranky. He just didn't need the nap. It messed up his sleeping habits at home, and I worked so hard to get him on a great schedule. Being told to lie on a cot for 3 hours will mean that he will eventually fall asleep, therefore not fall asleep at home until 10pm or later.

[nannyde]

That is EXACTLY what I am asking. Why is this so difficult? I think they need break from all the kids, yes. But why is it not possible to turn on a movie for the older kiddos, or give them a quiet activity, while you take your break? I sincerely DO NOT want my child to lie on a cot for that long. It is boring, and it disrupts his already established sleep patterns at home. He can watch a movie or play quietly while others sleep. He knows what it means to be quiet, because others are sleeping. As far as the landscaping example goes, your analogy is incorrect. If I were paying you to care for my son for nine hours, then you are being paid to care for him for nine hours. You are saying that I would pay you for nine hours, however my son would actually be in your home for 12 hours. (9+3=12). But no, he is in your home for 9 hours and you are taking a 3 hour break during this 9 hours. Meaning that you really are only caring for my son for 6 hours, because you have told him to lie quietly on his cot for 3 hours. (9-3=6).
& Mandy Jane, I don't think it is necessary to attempt to insult me with your sarcastic remarks. "I assume you DO know how to read? " What is up with that? If you want me to edit your grammar on that post, I can and will. Just let me know. I will be all over that.
I am not trying to insult anyone here, and I would like it very much if you did not insult me.
I appreciate that you all care enough for children to open your home up to them. But you are running a business, you are providing a service. You need to stop being so selfish and look at what your clients need, and compare that to what you need. There needs to be a good balance. And with most of the providers I looked at, the needs of the provider were put well above the clients. They wanted a break, no exceptions. They would try to explain to me that my child DOES need a nap. They would try to tell me that yes, they are negotiable. But when I questioned them in detail what my child would be doing during "nap time", they failed to prove that my child would not be lying down doing nothing at all.

I am obviously not finding any answers here. I had to put my son in a center, when I preferred the "home-setting" and the personalization you get with a home provider. I was not able to find any provider willing to actually budge on this nap time/break time thing. That is a very large break. And yes, your job is quite different then mine. But why did you choose this kind of work if you cannot keep up with children for a full 8 hours, even? I could not do that, so I chose to NOT open a daycare in my home. If I thought that I could handle 6-8 kids (homes that I looked at had this # of kids, I definitely do NOT want my son in a home with more children than that. That is a chaotic mess) in my home then I would consider the fact that I would need to actually care for them for at least 9 hours. Meaning, that I would need to tend to children who were old enough to stay awake during the day. I would require that children who get cranky have naps. I would consult with the parent about their child's crankiness and there would be a solution. I would not "drop" the family because a child functions well w/out a nap. That IS bad business. That is cruel to the child. If they get used to a daycare, love the kids they play with, love the providers, why would you drop them because they do not need a nap?
Like I said, I am getting no answers here.
Based on the info you HAVE provided, this is my conclusion:

My son will stay in a center. In-home providers are unable to fully care for my child because they cannot handle children who do not require a nap. They would much rather disrupt his sleeping habits rather than disrupt their break.

We are giving you the answer but you are saying no to it. Your solutions are not workable for us. A kid up is a kid up. Doesn't matter to me whether they are watching TV, doing a "quiet" activity, or table craft. They are UP and one being up to me is the same as the entire house being up and being in full play.

I would NEVER try to convince you he needs a nap. He doesn't and I believe you. I also believe the legions of parents with infants to five year old who say their kid doesn't need a nap. I'm not in the business of telling you that you are wrong about it. Of course he doesn't need a nap.

I'm just not in the business of providing a no nap service. I know their are millions of children from birth to five who don't need any naps. I get that ... and I'm good with it. They just can't come to my house.

I think what you might be missing is that it IS possible to provide an amazing day care for birth to five and ONLY cater to children who NEED a full afternon nap. You are saying it comes with the territory and I'm telling you I've done this for 18 years and it IS possible to ONLY provide the service where children NEED a full afternoon nap. You ran into one after another when you did your search.

[Unregistered]

That is EXACTLY what I am asking. Why is this so difficult? I think they need break from all the kids, yes. But why is it not possible to turn on a movie for the older kiddos, or give them a quiet activity, while you take your break? I sincerely DO NOT want my child to lie on a cot for that long. It is boring, and it disrupts his already established sleep patterns at home. He can watch a movie or play quietly while others sleep. He knows what it means to be quiet, because others are sleeping. As far as the landscaping example goes, your analogy is incorrect. If I were paying you to care for my son for nine hours, then you are being paid to care for him for nine hours. You are saying that I would pay you for nine hours, however my son would actually be in your home for 12 hours. (9+3=12). But no, he is in your home for 9 hours and you are taking a 3 hour break during this 9 hours. Meaning that you really are only caring for my son for 6 hours, because you have told him to lie quietly on his cot for 3 hours. (9-3=6).
& Mandy Jane, I don't think it is necessary to attempt to insult me with your sarcastic remarks. "I assume you DO know how to read? " What is up with that? If you want me to edit your grammar on that post, I can and will. Just let me know. I will be all over that.
I am not trying to insult anyone here, and I would like it very much if you did not insult me.
I appreciate that you all care enough for children to open your home up to them. But you are running a business, you are providing a service. You need to stop being so selfish and look at what your clients need, and compare that to what you need. There needs to be a good balance. And with most of the providers I looked at, the needs of the provider were put well above the clients. They wanted a break, no exceptions. They would try to explain to me that my child DOES need a nap. They would try to tell me that yes, they are negotiable. But when I questioned them in detail what my child would be doing during "nap time", they failed to prove that my child would not be lying down doing nothing at all.

I am obviously not finding any answers here. I had to put my son in a center, when I preferred the "home-setting" and the personalization you get with a home provider. I was not able to find any provider willing to actually budge on this nap time/break time thing. That is a very large break. And yes, your job is quite different then mine. But why did you choose this kind of work if you cannot keep up with children for a full 8 hours, even? I could not do that, so I chose to NOT open a daycare in my home. If I thought that I could handle 6-8 kids (homes that I looked at had this # of kids, I definitely do NOT want my son in a home with more children than that. That is a chaotic mess) in my home then I would consider the fact that I would need to actually care for them for at least 9 hours. Meaning, that I would need to tend to children who were old enough to stay awake during the day. I would require that children who get cranky have naps. I would consult with the parent about their child's crankiness and there would be a solution. I would not "drop" the family because a child functions well w/out a nap. That IS bad business. That is cruel to the child. If they get used to a daycare, love the kids they play with, love the providers, why would you drop them because they do not need a nap?
Like I said, I am getting no answers here.
Based on the info you HAVE provided, this is my conclusion:

My son will stay in a center. In-home providers are unable to fully care for my child because they cannot handle children who do not require a nap. They would much rather disrupt his sleeping habits rather than disrupt their break.


I have a feeling there is much more going on here, and probably the center is not as honest with you as in a home daycare. Maybe your child is disruptive and they felt he needed to quiet down, or they saw he needed a nap.

Most 4 years old I've had need a nap because we have a very active day. If your child has trouble keeping still at that age there might be other things going on with him; why you've been through various daycares. As providers we see this all the time, and often they end up at the chain type centers.

Currently I have a 4 year old and he needs a 2 hr nap every day, otherwise he is a terror. And he would not play quietly. I suspect you're embellishing the 3 hrs on the mat too. If he is taking a nap at any daycare it means he needs that nap no matter what age.

I think it comes down to your schedule being disrupted, not his.

[Unregistered]

I have the perfect solution for you! You could keep him in a family childcare and take advantage of the family vibe, smaller numbers, and general things you loved, and keep his 8/9ish bedtime!!! Just wake him 3 hours before you do now, plus that would give you even MORE quality time with him each day.

I know I know great idea isn't it?? Win win. More time for mom and son, bedtimes stay the same and you get the environment you wanted for him to begin with :Sunny:

Really?? When I pay someone for a service I don't expect to have to edit my families daily life for this service. I do not feel that waking up at 4am is a good solution. But good try.
That would STILL be disrupting my son's sleeping schedule. The big problem is that I want an in-home daycare that will allow my four year old to stay awake during your break time. When I was searching for an in-home daycare that would allow this, I did find providers that were willing to let my son go without the unnecessary nap. But there were other things I did not like. (Food provided, dirty home, too many kids, etc). I could never find one that I liked that didn't have the nap policy for older kids. I've settled on a center due to this, I'm happy with it. I would've been happier with a great in-home provider that met all of my/my child's needs, but was unable to find one. I came to this forum because I wanted to really question the nap thing. I really wanted to know why providers take these long breaks. I really wanted to know why I had to resort to putting my son in a center.

[daycare]

That is EXACTLY what I am asking. Why is this so difficult? I think they need break from all the kids, yes. But why is it not possible to turn on a movie for the older kiddos, or give them a quiet activity, while you take your break? I sincerely DO NOT want my child to lie on a cot for that long. It is boring, and it disrupts his already established sleep patterns at home. He can watch a movie or play quietly while others sleep. He knows what it means to be quiet, because others are sleeping. As far as the landscaping example goes, your analogy is incorrect. If I were paying you to care for my son for nine hours, then you are being paid to care for him for nine hours. You are saying that I would pay you for nine hours, however my son would actually be in your home for 12 hours. (9+3=12). But no, he is in your home for 9 hours and you are taking a 3 hour break during this 9 hours. Meaning that you really are only caring for my son for 6 hours, because you have told him to lie quietly on his cot for 3 hours. (9-3=6).
& Mandy Jane, I don't think it is necessary to attempt to insult me with your sarcastic remarks. "I assume you DO know how to read? " What is up with that? If you want me to edit your grammar on that post, I can and will. Just let me know. I will be all over that.
I am not trying to insult anyone here, and I would like it very much if you did not insult me.
I appreciate that you all care enough for children to open your home up to them. But you are running a business, you are providing a service. You need to stop being so selfish and look at what your clients need, and compare that to what you need. There needs to be a good balance. And with most of the providers I looked at, the needs of the provider were put well above the clients. They wanted a break, no exceptions. They would try to explain to me that my child DOES need a nap. They would try to tell me that yes, they are negotiable. But when I questioned them in detail what my child would be doing during "nap time", they failed to prove that my child would not be lying down doing nothing at all.

I am obviously not finding any answers here. I had to put my son in a center, when I preferred the "home-setting" and the personalization you get with a home provider. I was not able to find any provider willing to actually budge on this nap time/break time thing. That is a very large break. And yes, your job is quite different then mine. But why did you choose this kind of work if you cannot keep up with children for a full 8 hours, even? I could not do that, so I chose to NOT open a daycare in my home. If I thought that I could handle 6-8 kids (homes that I looked at had this # of kids, I definitely do NOT want my son in a home with more children than that. That is a chaotic mess) in my home then I would consider the fact that I would need to actually care for them for at least 9 hours. Meaning, that I would need to tend to children who were old enough to stay awake during the day. I would require that children who get cranky have naps. I would consult with the parent about their child's crankiness and there would be a solution. I would not "drop" the family because a child functions well w/out a nap. That IS bad business. That is cruel to the child. If they get used to a daycare, love the kids they play with, love the providers, why would you drop them because they do not need a nap?
Like I said, I am getting no answers here.
Based on the info you HAVE provided, this is my conclusion:

My son will stay in a center. In-home providers are unable to fully care for my child because they cannot handle children who do not require a nap. They would much rather disrupt his sleeping habits rather than disrupt their break.
The one part of this post that bothers me is that you think because they are sleeping we are not caring for them?

when your child in signed into DC and on my premises, I am 100% responsible for them, until you sign them out and take them home.

So that means if during nap time an earthquake should hit, or a gas leak rupture in my home, I will need to remove your awake or sleeping child from my home. I must continue to watch and care for your child 100% of the time they are in my care. AWAKE or ALSEEP. My insurance company does not give me a discount when your child is sleeping. Therefore, I will still need money to cover this cost and I am still working, I am just not up having to continue to entertain your child, because they need to rest their over thinking minds and I do too.

Yes, some children can be quiet during nap time, most can't. Then it leads to a stressful environment for those children that are awake. The provider is constantly having to quiet the children that are awake. Who wants to hear please be quiet or lower your voice a million times? Not me, not you, not a child.

I know its been said a million times, but if a daycare does not offer a service your child needs, then you need to find a different daycare for your child..

It's like your going to jiffy lube asking for your brakes to be changed and they don't offer that service.....

[BigMama]

I am in NYS. Our regulations for home-based child care state that children must be provided with a rest period. They also state that children who are unable to rest be given alternate activities and that children must not be forced to rest for "excessive" periods.
All children under the age of five are required to rest here. For the first thirty minutes of nap time they are required to lay on their cots quietly. This allows anyone who is going to fall asleep a chance to do so and it gives me time to put the two babies down for their nap. After the initial 30 min. anyone who is awake is given a "nap box" - a shoe box with quiet activities such as books, crayons and a scribble pad, finger puppets, a magna-doodle, cards, puzzles etc. I have several boxes so the kids don't get bored with the same stuff over and over again. Anyone over the age of five is allowed to play in the playroom. If they have a nap box they are expected to play independently and quietly. If they are in the playroom they are expected to play quietly. All of this is spelled out in my contract.
Even though all of the parents return a signed contract signifying that they have read and understand my policies, I cannot tell you how many parents STILL do not accept the nap time rules:
Parent: "Why does my child have to play up here if other kids get to go in the playroom?"
Me: Because it is against the law for the toddlers and preschoolers to be out of my sight. Tiffany can play quietly right here.
Parent:"He doesn't want to nap."
Me: "?!" (There is a huge difference between a child outgrowing and not needing their nap and just not wanting to take one!)
Parent: "Why can't she play with you during nap?"
Me: Because I am not your child's playmate! We spend 4-5 hours (depending on when they are dropped off) a morning doing activities: art, playing outside, preschool stuff, story time, etc. etc. I am here to help facilitate Jack's learning and socialization, not to be his friend. And yes, I need a break in my 10 hour day! I am sorry if that makes me a bad person! I do not understand why only child care providers are expected to go without a break?!
On one occasion I had only one school-ager, and instead of having her play in the playroom by herself while the little ones napped, I let her watch a movie. Well, parents complained about that! I have no problem meeting individual needs and accommodating non-nappers, but sometimes I get so frustrated because it seems as though no one is ever satisfied with what I do.

[CheekyChick]

In response to the parent who feels we don't deserve a break...

I am an in-home facility and don't require my 4 and 5 year olds to nap. I (personally) think it would be cruel to have an older child lay on his/her cot for 2+ hours quietly. I wouldn't be happy if my children were forced to that. So... I allow my older "non-nappers" to sit at a table and play quiet games, read, draw, etc.

With that said, anyone working with small children from 7:30 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. DESERVES and NEEDS a break. I also don't consider a parent paying $3.00 per hour "good" money. You probably pay your gardner $25.00 per hour, but you pay the person who loves and nurtures your son most of his waking hours approximately $3.00 an hour? Hmmm.... That hardly seems fair. Lastly, I'm sure when you're with your son on a Saturday, you do not play with him for 10 hours straight. Do you never sit down to pay bills, return calls, hop on the Internet, watch a TV show, read a magazine? I'm sure you do... ;)

[kimsdaycare]

Please remember that in your center, the staff is getting a break, they just rotate them in and out of rooms as necessary for the supervision of non-nappers.

Most home daycares don't have that luxury. A non-napper actually often requires more supervision as they will do all they can to wake some friends to play with. Not to mention the younger nappers that now fight nap because they see others not having to:(

Today I have had no breakfast, no lunch, no drinks and no potty break.

I still have one awake. It doesn't make any difference. I'm still "on the clock" so my needs will have to wait.

Before I did daycare I had visions of my provider watching soaps and cleaning her house during naptime.

You know what? I just realized that I havent even seen a soap since I worked outside the home (13 years now) and and watched them during my lunch break. I never appreciated those freedoms. I believed I earned them and would have quit my job if they were denied to me.

Home vs center are so different I cannot believe people even compare the two when it comes to stuff like this.

I know I sound cranky. I'd give anything for a cracker or something right now.

And I really need to pee :)

[Unregistered]

This is hysterical, you lie in this post and completely contradict yourself. Ok so if your son just laid there for 3 hours, that would mean he didn't sleep meaning he would go to bed a normal time. You say he doesn't need a nap and won't take one, but then you say he would be so bord he would fall asleep, LOL. You go back and forth!

The real story is it was quiet time, and after a busy day he went to sleep like any other normal child. Meaning he wanted to stay up a normal time at night, and you wanted him down early so you wouldn't have to deal with him. If he stays up later at night, you let him sleep in till the last minute....so you also don't have to deal with him in the morning, so you can get ready for work. LOL.

Yep we have all had parents just like you!

I did not contradict myself at all. My son does not need a nap. He starts school next year and he will not nap then. He is able to stay awake from 7:30am to 8:30pm each and every day without having any cranky issues. This provider required that my son lay still on a cot for 2-3 hours. Yes, after a period of time HE WOULD FALL ASLEEP. If I went to my bed, RIGHT NOW, and laid there looking at a ten-page picture book for 2-3 hours, I WOULD FALL ASLEEP. BECAUSE IT IS BORING. I then would not be able to fall asleep at my normal bedtime. I am NOT trying to pay someone to keep my child awake all day so that he passes out right when he gets home. That is ridiculous. I enjoy spending time with my child in the evenings, I really, truly do. I can see where parents would be tired and they wouldn't want to "deal" with their own kids. But they need to realize that this is all the "little kid" time your going to get with this child. They are going to grow up, and you are going to miss it. I do not want to miss it. I want my son to really enjoy being four years old. I want him to really love his mom because she plays with him as often as she can. We have plans EVERY weekend. We go do something fun. I can have my "free time" when my child is 16 and wants to go hang out with his friends. Right now he wants to hang out with his mommy, and I am not about to give that up. However, I have really worked hard on establishing a great sleep schedule, and I have found that 8:30pm is good for him. He started sleeping less and less when he first turned four. I decided to stop putting him down for naps, because it was getting difficult to try and make him sleep. I learned that he was fine without the naps. My mother was his babysitter at this time, she had been for quite some time. She agreed that he was fine without the naps, and he still went to sleep at 8:30pm just fine. Then my wonderful mother decided that she was going to take a job offer. That meant my little guy needed to go to daycare. & thus, all of this mess that I am throwing a big fit about. For now, I will leave him in the in center. He seems to enjoy it, I get a daily report with all the stuff he did that day. And he isn't required to lay quietly or fall asleep out of boredom. I really liked the idea of an in-home daycare, but I couldn't find the right one.

[Unregistered]

Maybe you need to look into having a stay at home mom watch him. We don't tend to make our kids nap forever for the same reason you don't want yours to nap forever. The environment is home-like and the group would be very small. You may not get all the bells and whistles these ladies offer, but let me tell you, your child will be fine without all that a "daycare provider" thinks kids need to be doing every day. When we need a little break, Sesame Street is still a wonderful show for kids. While your child is with us, he probably won't be told to GO PLAY TOYS because he'll be too busy learning to count while we bake, learn his colors while we sort clean socks, learn to be a helper while he puts toilet paper rolls in the cupboard, learn about plants when we water them, learn about the different kinds of birds after we've filled the bird feeder together. I'm happy to earn some money and offer a safe place for a little friend while I'm home. It's worked great for the families I've had so far.

[Unregistered]

Maybe you need to look into having a stay at home mom watch him. We don't tend to make our kids nap forever for the same reason you don't want yours to nap forever. The environment is home-like and the group would be very small. You may not get all the bells and whistles these ladies offer, but let me tell you, your child will be fine without all that a "daycare provider" thinks kids need to be doing every day. When we need a little break, Sesame Street is still a wonderful show for kids. While your child is with us, he probably won't be told to GO PLAY TOYS because he'll be too busy learning to count while we bake, learn his colors while we sort clean socks, learn to be a helper while he puts toilet paper rolls in the cupboard, learn about plants when we water them, learn about the different kinds of birds after we've filled the bird feeder together. I'm happy to earn some money and offer a safe place for a little friend while I'm home. It's worked great for the families I've had so far.

You are right! This is exactly what I need. My mother was EXACTLY like this before she started working again. This was perfect! I just wanted to have him be around other kids. His cousin was with him at my mother's house and they are around the same age so it was so perfect. But when she started working again, my sister moved her son into a center and I wanted to keep that home environment going when it came to my son's care. I do not know a stay at home mom that could care for my son. I first hired a nanny. Except I really wanted my son to play with other children daily. I wanted him to make some little friendships because he starts school soon. I ended the nanny thing and then started the in-home daycare/nap policy fiasco.

[Unregistered]

You are right! This is exactly what I need. My mother was EXACTLY like this before she started working again. This was perfect! I just wanted to have him be around other kids. His cousin was with him at my mother's house and they are around the same age so it was so perfect. But when she started working again, my sister moved her son into a center and I wanted to keep that home environment going when it came to my son's care. I do not know a stay at home mom that could care for my son. I first hired a nanny. Except I really wanted my son to play with other children daily. I wanted him to make some little friendships because he starts school soon. I ended the nanny thing and then started the in-home daycare/nap policy fiasco.

Probably the best place to find a willing stay at home mom is through the school your child will attend. Call and ask if they know of any stay at home moms who watch a couple kids. You could also check with your local story time librarian. She'll usually know who the stay at home moms are that bring an extra or two along. We're around, we just don't advertise because someone is always recommending us. ;~)

[nannyde]

I did not contradict myself at all. My son does not need a nap. He starts school next year and he will not nap then. He is able to stay awake from 7:30am to 8:30pm each and every day without having any cranky issues. This provider required that my son lay still on a cot for 2-3 hours. Yes, after a period of time HE WOULD FALL ASLEEP. If I went to my bed, RIGHT NOW, and laid there looking at a ten-page picture book for 2-3 hours, I WOULD FALL ASLEEP. BECAUSE IT IS BORING. I then would not be able to fall asleep at my normal bedtime. I am NOT trying to pay someone to keep my child awake all day so that he passes out right when he gets home. That is ridiculous. I enjoy spending time with my child in the evenings, I really, truly do. I can see where parents would be tired and they wouldn't want to "deal" with their own kids. But they need to realize that this is all the "little kid" time your going to get with this child. They are going to grow up, and you are going to miss it. I do not want to miss it. I want my son to really enjoy being four years old. I want him to really love his mom because she plays with him as often as she can. We have plans EVERY weekend. We go do something fun. I can have my "free time" when my child is 16 and wants to go hang out with his friends. Right now he wants to hang out with his mommy, and I am not about to give that up. However, I have really worked hard on establishing a great sleep schedule, and I have found that 8:30pm is good for him. He started sleeping less and less when he first turned four. I decided to stop putting him down for naps, because it was getting difficult to try and make him sleep. I learned that he was fine without the naps. My mother was his babysitter at this time, she had been for quite some time. She agreed that he was fine without the naps, and he still went to sleep at 8:30pm just fine. Then my wonderful mother decided that she was going to take a job offer. That meant my little guy needed to go to daycare. & thus, all of this mess that I am throwing a big fit about. For now, I will leave him in the in center. He seems to enjoy it, I get a daily report with all the stuff he did that day. And he isn't required to lay quietly or fall asleep out of boredom. I really liked the idea of an in-home daycare, but I couldn't find the right one.

You sound like a great Mom. I would love to work for you minus the nap deal. Just keep looking for the right placement if you are still interested.

I hope your experience here has taught you that it's not personal. It's not about what you need or your kid needs. Deciding to limit the business to only children who NEED a full afternoon nap is just ONE of the decisions we make in this business. It's not made for the benefit of one family or one kid. For me, it's based on YEARS of doing this and wanting happiness, LONGEVITY, and being around really rested kids. I love the nappers... they are my fave.

Don't take it personally... cuz it's not personal. It's just business.

[Unregistered]

Probably the best place to find a willing stay at home mom is through the school your child will attend. Call and ask if they know of any stay at home moms who watch a couple kids. You could also check with your local story time librarian. She'll usually know who the stay at home moms are that bring an extra or two along. We're around, we just don't advertise because someone is always recommending us. ;~)

I cannot believe I did not even think about that. I thought about getting a babysitter, but I only knew friends and family members who all work and mainly take their own kids to centers. I will definitely become a little more nosy about what these mothers are doing - going to the library in the afternoon on a weekday! haha. I may sound like a freak asking "Hello, it appears you are a stay at home mom and you have three kids with you. May I please go into your home and observe for a day so that I can determine if I want to ask you to watch my son, as well?"
I'm sure I can find a better way of finding one of these fabulous people, but I pictured my self totally doing that like a weirdo.
I am still so shocked that I did not think of this. I mean, if I am going to allow a stranger to watch my child, why does she have to own an in-home daycare? I can find a good "babysitter". I was just thinking friends & family when I thought of "babysitter". My mother wasn't licensed to care for children, but she watched my son & my nephew and she was absolutely the best. I would need to find someone who only keeps a couple of kids, and I would need to see what they feed my child, what the home is like, etc. I just have to track one down.
Thanks!!!

[Meyou]

Check with your local elementary schools as well. They often keep a list of moms that babysit in the area and have children attending the school. You might find someone who can continue with afterschool care next year for you.

[Unregistered]

I cannot believe I did not even think about that. I thought about getting a babysitter, but I only knew friends and family members who all work and mainly take their own kids to centers. I will definitely become a little more nosy about what these mothers are doing - going to the library in the afternoon on a weekday! haha. I may sound like a freak asking "Hello, it appears you are a stay at home mom and you have three kids with you. May I please go into your home and observe for a day so that I can determine if I want to ask you to watch my son, as well?"
I'm sure I can find a better way of finding one of these fabulous people, but I pictured my self totally doing that like a weirdo.
I am still so shocked that I did not think of this. I mean, if I am going to allow a stranger to watch my child, why does she have to own an in-home daycare? I can find a good "babysitter". I was just thinking friends & family when I thought of "babysitter". My mother wasn't licensed to care for children, but she watched my son & my nephew and she was absolutely the best. I would need to find someone who only keeps a couple of kids, and I would need to see what they feed my child, what the home is like, etc. I just have to track one down.
Thanks!!!
You're welcome! But, I do have to warn you...asking to come and observe for a day probably won't get you anywhere. We are stay at home moms...we do the things stay at home moms do....laundry, dishes, cooking/baking, gardening, etc. and we would feel really weird having you come to watch that so the day wouldn't look like a normal day anyway. Definitely ask to visit to see what the home and mom are like, but don't be thinking that because we're home all day that it's all neat as a pin...we live in it 24/7 so it may or may not be quite as tidy as your house. Of course, ask about the food and napping, just don't get too high and mighty on us. Don't think you're our boss, because we are not a nanny. Don't go into it thinking it should be any cheaper. It has to be worth our trouble to do it. Check around. You'll find what you're looking for, but have an open mind when you find someone. Good luck on your search!

[Country Kids]

Remember also with a SAHM, they are also doing things for the family also. If they need to go to the store, run errands, do grocery shopping your son will need to go so don't ask that they don't transport. Also, they will probably be very involved with their own childrens lifes so don't be suprised if they want to go on field trips, school parties and things that maybe your son won't be able to do. In that case will you have back-up care?

[Unregistered]

You're welcome! But, I do have to warn you...asking to come and observe for a day probably won't get you anywhere. We are stay at home moms...we do the things stay at home moms do....laundry, dishes, cooking/baking, gardening, etc. and we would feel really weird having you come to watch that so the day wouldn't look like a normal day anyway. Definitely ask to visit to see what the home and mom are like, but don't be thinking that because we're home all day that it's all neat as a pin...we live in it 24/7 so it may or may not be quite as tidy as your house. Of course, ask about the food and napping, just don't get too high and mighty on us. Don't think you're our boss, because we are not a nanny. Don't go into it thinking it should be any cheaper. It has to be worth our trouble to do it. Check around. You'll find what you're looking for, but have an open mind when you find someone. Good luck on your search!


Oh my goodness, I think this summed it up why she has gone from daycare to daycare!

[Michael]

Oh my goodness, I think this summed it up why she has gone from daycare to daycare!

Consider registering on the forum. You won't have to wait for your conversation to be moderated. :)

[Crystal]

Oh my goodness, I think this summed it up why she has gone from daycare to daycare!

how did this sum it up? I am not sure I understand what you are saying here?

[Unregistered]

Consider registering on the forum. You won't have to wait for your conversation to be moderated. :)


Thankyou Michael, I am already a member on here.

Just decided to post unregistered for this one!

[momofsix]

I cannot believe I did not even think about that. I thought about getting a babysitter, but I only knew friends and family members who all work and mainly take their own kids to centers. I will definitely become a little more nosy about what these mothers are doing - going to the library in the afternoon on a weekday! haha. I may sound like a freak asking "Hello, it appears you are a stay at home mom and you have three kids with you. May I please go into your home and observe for a day so that I can determine if I want to ask you to watch my son, as well?"
I'm sure I can find a better way of finding one of these fabulous people, but I pictured my self totally doing that like a weirdo.
I am still so shocked that I did not think of this. I mean, if I am going to allow a stranger to watch my child, why does she have to own an in-home daycare? I can find a good "babysitter". I was just thinking friends & family when I thought of "babysitter". My mother wasn't licensed to care for children, but she watched my son & my nephew and she was absolutely the best. I would need to find someone who only keeps a couple of kids, and I would need to see what they feed my child, what the home is like, etc. I just have to track one down.
Thanks!!!

Even though in my state you are not allowed to watch kids w/out a license, there are still plenty of SAHMs that advertise on Craigslist to babysit. You might be able to find someone that way too.

[Unregistered]

Remember also with a SAHM, they are also doing things for the family also. If they need to go to the store, run errands, do grocery shopping your son will need to go so don't ask that they don't transport. Also, they will probably be very involved with their own childrens lifes so don't be suprised if they want to go on field trips, school parties and things that maybe your son won't be able to do. In that case will you have back-up care?

These are definitely things to check on as well. I live in the country so we really don't go anywhere too often, but if I want to go out & about, we do. I have parents sign the same type of transportation waiver that a daycare would. I carry with me all the pertinent information about each child that a daycare would. It's not a bad thing to go to the grocery store. There are a LOT of learning opportunities to be found there, from colors to numbers and letters. I probably wouldn't watch your child if I couldn't get permission to leave the house. If I want to do things with my school kids, I simply have my mom come over just like she would for my own kids. Parents know this up front and within a few days of the child being here, I usually have my mom, who is still a stay at home mom, come over for pickup time so the parents can meet her. Some parents have just taken a day off, some get another family member...it all depends on what they want to do, but I always have a backup for them if they need it.

[Unregistered]

how did this sum it up? I am not sure I understand what you are saying here?

I think this person thinks it was "summed up" because I think I am the boss & need to realize that I am not. This is true, I need to really think about daycare as a service that I sign up for. I know I am having a hard time viewing it the right way. & I am sorry for that. I just have a hard time paying someone and then dealing with that person when they are not doing the job to my standards. I know that this is not the same thing as hiring an employee. This is very different, but at the same time, there are similarities. It's hard for me to grasp that. I will get over that, just need to think about it as a business owner. I apologize for offending anyone with my wrongful way of labeling the work you do for me.

On another note, this really isn't summed up. I thought it was a GREAT idea to find a SAHM to watch my son. But I would HAVE to ask her what goes on day to day, and she could list all these wonderful things all day long, if she wanted. But I am still asking a stranger to care for my son, I would HAVE to visit her home and watch what goes on with these children, even if only for an hour or so. I cannot believe what she says and drop my kid off the next day. No way. I mean, what if she sits on the couch all day and yells at the kids to shut up because she is trying to hear the TV? What if she says it is OK for my son to have potato chips and chocolate ice cream for lunch? I know nothing like that would go on while I was watching, but I could get idea of who she is and what she does by watching her tone and how she interacts with the kids. I wouldn't mind if she folded laundry and let the kids help, or watered the plants, or turned on a good TV show for them for a little bit. I understand that a child does not have to be sitting at a table reciting ABC's and 123's and doing the standard "curriculum"-based activities in order to learn. My mother watched my son for quite a long time, he learned so much spending his days with her. She did not do anything special, she took him to the park, showed him how to tie his shoelaces, my son actually knows how to fold a towel perfectly, lol. He can say his ABC's and count to 19. (He gets mixed up after that and goes back to 12). I actually wouldn't mind if the SAHM drove my son around, as long as they didn't take a full 8 hour road trip each day, & there were logical reasons to drive him, that is fine. I just need to know I can trust this person first. How can I do that if it is too weird for me to watch for a little while? I need to make a good call on this person and evaluate them the best I can before I allow my child to spend a great, big chunk of his life at this home? Can I get some suggestions here? (I also just registered but I am not sure if I should sign in because I do not want to get attacked and remembered as a horribly difficult parent that daycare providers hate, and I am not sure if I will be using this forum regularly. I don't typically have this many daycare issues. The whole nap thing with a recent provider really irked me. I went searching online for other nap policies pertaining to four year olds, and I came across this).

[Cat Herder]

It's hard for me to grasp that. I will get over that, just need to think about it as a business owner. I apologize for offending anyone with my wrongful way of labeling the work you do for me.

Can I get some suggestions here? (I also just registered but I am not sure if I should sign in because I do not want to get attacked and remembered as a horribly difficult parent that daycare providers hate, and I am not sure if I will be using this forum regularly. I don't typically have this many daycare issues. The whole nap thing with a recent provider really irked me. I went searching online for other nap policies pertaining to four year olds, and I came across this).

You have the same right to vent your frustrations here as anyone else. :p Stick around, we ALL have something to learn from each other. :Sunny:

And for the record, I was the worlds most horribly demanding parent :lol::lol: . That is why I opened my own daycare.

[Unregistered]

I posted the last reply on this thread. I am thinking I should probably start a new thread asking for suggestions on how to establish trust if I choose a SAHM as a provider. What category should this be in? The Parent and Guardians category? I think I will start there.

[Cat Herder]

I posted the last reply on this thread. I am thinking I should probably start a new thread asking for suggestions on how to establish trust if I choose a SAHM as a provider. What category should this be in? The Parent and Guardians category? I think I will start there.

If you want the providers to tell you to absolute truth, no PR, then I'd recommend the providers section. Many Family Home Providers started out that way. ;)

[HeatherJ]

Ok, I will post it there.
Thanks!

[Lucy]

Believe me you... if you were a provider who was willing to do a twelve hour haul without a BIG break mid day... you would be killing it in your business.


I do provide this service. I don't make a killing. If I have a 4 yr old who I have determined does not benefit from a nap, and in fact loses sleep at night because of it, then I don't give them a nap. They sit and do quiet activities. I am fully capable of doing dishes while a kid colors, watches a dvd, or plays with a dollhouse. You make it sound like we have to sit WITH the kid, therefore not getting a break. Nope. I go about my bizness.

That being said, you also imply that parents would LOVE it if I didn't give their kid a nap. That's not always true. I have had many who want LONGER naps sometimes! They don't want to deal with a kid who is cranky when mom shows up. She can't even go to the grocery store to pick up two items because the kid is whiney. So I'm not sure why you think a no-nap policy would be so desirable to parents. To some, maybe, but not all. If they need it, they need it. If they don't, they don't. I see no value in forcing them to lay there. I actually find it demeaning.

[Country Kids]

Because if you do a no nap policy and the parents don't want to spend time with the child in the evening they can pick them up tired, feed them and head them straight to bed. Believe me parents are looking for child care that doesn't nap children so they are tired enough for a 6 or 7 oclock bedtime. I have one child that now fights naps and nap on the way home at 5 and then head to bed at 7:30.

[Lucy]

Because if you do a no nap policy and the parents don't want to spend time with the child in the evening they can pick them up tired, feed them and head them straight to bed. Believe me parents are looking for child care that doesn't nap children so they are tired enough for a 6 or 7 oclock bedtime. I have one child that now fights naps and nap on the way home at 5 and then head to bed at 7:30.

This child would not fit my criteria for "doesn't benefit from a nap". I don't want to be misunderstood. If they NEED one, they need one. I don't let them stay awake because mom & dad asked me to so they could put him to sleep earlier. Nuh-uh! It has to be the kid described by Unregistered - the kid who just lays there frustrated, and then can't sleep at night because they had such a long and un-necessary (for them) rest time. It's MY call. Not the kid, and not mom and dad.

[Crystal]

I do provide this service. I don't make a killing. If I have a 4 yr old who I have determined does not benefit from a nap, and in fact loses sleep at night because of it, then I don't give them a nap. They sit and do quiet activities. I am fully capable of doing dishes while a kid colors, watches a dvd, or plays with a dollhouse. You make it sound like we have to sit WITH the kid, therefore not getting a break. Nope. I go about my bizness.

That being said, you also imply that parents would LOVE it if I didn't give their kid a nap. That's not always true. I have had many who want LONGER naps sometimes! They don't want to deal with a kid who is cranky when mom shows up. She can't even go to the grocery store to pick up two items because the kid is whiney. So I'm not sure why you think a no-nap policy would be so desirable to parents. To some, maybe, but not all. If they need it, they need it. If they don't, they don't. I see no value in forcing them to lay there. I actually find it demeaning.

I completely, 100%, TOTALLY agree and do the same :)

[nannyde]

I do provide this service. I don't make a killing. If I have a 4 yr old who I have determined does not benefit from a nap, and in fact loses sleep at night because of it, then I don't give them a nap. They sit and do quiet activities. I am fully capable of doing dishes while a kid colors, watches a dvd, or plays with a dollhouse. You make it sound like we have to sit WITH the kid, therefore not getting a break. Nope. I go about my bizness.

That being said, you also imply that parents would LOVE it if I didn't give their kid a nap. That's not always true. I have had many who want LONGER naps sometimes! They don't want to deal with a kid who is cranky when mom shows up. She can't even go to the grocery store to pick up two items because the kid is whiney. So I'm not sure why you think a no-nap policy would be so desirable to parents. To some, maybe, but not all. If they need it, they need it. If they don't, they don't. I see no value in forcing them to lay there. I actually find it demeaning.

I'm not saying you are going to go to the bank if you are offering services only to kids who YOU think don't need a nap. I'm saying that you will make bank if you offer services to the kids who have PARENTS who say they don't need a nap.

If you marketed your daycare that you don't do ANY naps for any kid of any age unless parents request the nap you would have people knocking your door down to get in. There are LEGIONS of parents out there who want their kid up ALL........... DAY.............. LONG.

[Unregistered]

Maybe you need to look into having a stay at home mom watch him. We don't tend to make our kids nap forever for the same reason you don't want yours to nap forever. The environment is home-like and the group would be very small. You may not get all the bells and whistles these ladies offer, but let me tell you, your child will be fine without all that a "daycare provider" thinks kids need to be doing every day. When we need a little break, Sesame Street is still a wonderful show for kids. While your child is with us, he probably won't be told to GO PLAY TOYS because he'll be too busy learning to count while we bake, learn his colors while we sort clean socks, learn to be a helper while he puts toilet paper rolls in the cupboard, learn about plants when we water them, learn about the different kinds of birds after we've filled the bird feeder together. I'm happy to earn some money and offer a safe place for a little friend while I'm home. It's worked great for the families I've had so far.

A good provider is going to take in all and make a decision for what is best for your child when it comes to napping. Telling a child to GO Play Toys is a nice thing to do- you need to read more about NannyDe and her belief behind this, because it does make sense and works. It's not the only thing this child is doing all day. Smaller daycares verses centers, to me are better. Your child doesn't become a number in a center. He/She becomes extended family in a small group childcare. His needs are cared for faster and usually the kids grow up together. Not as much come and go. I am not downing Centers, just preference. There are good and bad in both. You really need to look around and find a good fit for your little love. Demanding all your wants and expecting that in any type of care system is not realistic. It has to work for the group as a whole. Asking that your child not sleep or sit quiet past two hours is reasonable. If your child is happy to go and happy when you pick them up to me that is what counts, and if your child is well looked out for when you can't be there to do that ......you know you have a good provider.

[Lucy]

I'm not saying you are going to go to the bank if you are offering services only to kids who YOU think don't need a nap. I'm saying that you will make bank if you offer services to the kids who have PARENTS who say they don't need a nap.

If you marketed your daycare that you don't do ANY naps for any kid of any age unless parents request the nap you would have people knocking your door down to get in. There are LEGIONS of parents out there who want their kid up ALL........... DAY.............. LONG.

Odd. I've never met ONE in 17 plus years who has asked for no nap. Hmmm. (Unless it was for the four year old who is aging out of one. Then we begin the discussions and trials.) I have had them say their kid needs MORE nap because they're so whiney.

[Cat Herder]

Odd. I've never met ONE in 17 plus years who has asked for no nap. Hmmm. (Unless it was for the four year old who is aging out of one. Then we begin the discussions and trials.) I have had them say their kid needs MORE nap because they're so whiney.

You are out in the country a bit, like me, right?

I think that is why we don't see it. Kids are more active out here. In the city/suburbs this seems to be more of an issue.

I have not seen it again once I made the move out here...;)

[Blackcat31]

You are out in the country a bit, like me, right?

I think that is why we don't see it. Kids are more active out here. In the city/suburbs this seems to be more of an issue.

I have not seen it again once I made the move out here...;)

That was my thought too.... We are pretty rural and most my dck's spend a majority of their time doing outside/physical activites.

In all my years, I have had only 1 ask for her child to not be napped. She was, sadly a parent who didn't want any face time with her child and he did go to bed at 6:30 after being at care from 7 AM until 5:30 PM. So, in my situation, it had nothing to do with the child's needs but about the parents. :(

[Unregistered]

A good provider is going to take in all and make a decision for what is best for your child when it comes to napping. Telling a child to GO Play Toys is a nice thing to do- you need to read more about NannyDe and her belief behind this, because it does make sense and works. It's not the only thing this child is doing all day. Smaller daycares verses centers, to me are better. Your child doesn't become a number in a center. He/She becomes extended family in a small group childcare. His needs are cared for faster and usually the kids grow up together. Not as much come and go. I am not downing Centers, just preference. There are good and bad in both. You really need to look around and find a good fit for your little love. Demanding all your wants and expecting that in any type of care system is not realistic. It has to work for the group as a whole. Asking that your child not sleep or sit quiet past two hours is reasonable. If your child is happy to go and happy when you pick them up to me that is what counts, and if your child is well looked out for when you can't be there to do that ......you know you have a good provider.


Good advice. If they are going home happy you have a good provider.

The child is four years old, he will tell mom all about his day. Plus he should be able to sit on a mat for a length of time to settle down or to have a quiet time.

In all my years a child merely falls asleep if they are tired, there is no forcing them. Here they can have a book or paint, but often IF I have them play they are not quiet and end up waking the other children.

Even a 4 yr old needs a quiet time if not a nap.