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-   -   Do Your Daycare Kids Act Out at Pickup? (https://www.daycare.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22897)

jenh171 11-12-2010 01:52 PM

Do Your Daycare Kids Act Out at Pickup?
 
I am lucky enough to care for the best little group of children...honestly, they are all so well-behaved all day long. But ALL of the kids I have ever watched act completely horrible the minute their mom or dad arrives to pick them up...having tantrums, throwing things, you name it. It's like someone flicked a switch. I don't understand the psychology of this, but someone told me once that it's as if they are letting mom and dad have it for being gone all day. But it almost feels manipulative too, because I think they know that I'm not going to really correct them with their parent here. It is so hard for the parents and I cannot think of a way to fix this. I just wondered if anyone else experiences this phenomena!

SandeeAR 11-12-2010 02:04 PM

I guess that is where I'm different. If my kids acted out at pickup, I "would" correct them. They are still in my home, in my care until they step out that door on the way to the car, and I shut the door.

All of mine are babie, but one, so I don't have any of that yet, but yes, I would correct them.

Blackcat31 11-12-2010 02:07 PM

I was totally gonna post this same question!! I have a 3 yr old dcg who I've had since birth M-F and just recently she has become this crazy wild child I have NEVER seen before at pick up time. I have an entry way that is completely separated by a half door so she has no audience except parent picking up (and me) but she climbs the coat cubbies, jumps onto and off of the bench, pulls things out of other's baskets and basically turns into Sybill. Dcm just goes about her business and tries her best to get dcg shoes and coat on. I have tried saying something to both dcm and child, but nothing seems to phase this girl. We have even tried discussions the next morning, pep talks right before pick up to remind her of rules and she just goes crazy every day at pick up regardless. Lately I have been just walking away from entry room and leaving dcm to deal with her flailing wailing child on her own.
I also have an 18 month old who clings to me and cries and freaks out whenever I try to hand her over 1/2 door to dcm at pick up. I get that she loves being here, but sheesh! Pick ups are becoming crazy here!
I guess it beats screaming kids at drop off since they ALL come in eagerly...just seems as though NO ONE wants to leave lately!!

jenh171 11-12-2010 02:13 PM

actually it's usually the moms and i working together to try to reel the child in. i just cannot understand why they all do this. i have a four year old girl who is an absolute angel and right when her mom shows up she starts acting so fresh to her mom and running out the door while the mom and i are trying to talk for a second. also i have a 2 year old who is fantastic all day, and has a total meltdown the minute mom arrives....throws herself on the floor and everything. this poor mom has to practically carry her out of here. it's so hard for the parents at the end of the day. and i don't mean to say that they're having a fit because they don't want to leave. it's just acting up for no distinct reason. i'd love to do something to fix this!

katie 11-12-2010 06:34 PM

I'm glad you posted this. I have a 3 yr old dcg that becomes a different child once mom or dad come to pick up. She is happy, laughing all day. It doesn't matter who comes to pick up (mom and dad are split). She yells "No they are not here!" She cries. Tantrums. The mom is just over it and wants to go home. I think dad feels she was like that all day b/c she doesn't like it here. I try to tell him she was just having a great time! Uhhh :mad:

broncomom1973 11-12-2010 07:11 PM

Ha, ha, um yes. One dcb age 2-1/2 does great all day and then as soon as his mom comes in he starts whining and crying like hes had a horrible time here. I finally said to his mom yesterday "he sure does get emotional around you, he doesnt act like that at all during the day". I mean it's unbelievable. She said "yeah, you should see him at home". No thanks, I dont care for all that drama.

ninosqueridos 11-12-2010 08:32 PM

Yes. Every single one. Not everyday, but they each have their moments. It's exactly like described....flipping a switch. Once I hand over, the parent takes over (or tries to anyway). The ONLY thing that helps the situation here is if I have the child READY with shoes, coat, bag on so they could just pick them up and go. This is not always possible with all kids as not all pickups occur at the same time everyday with some, but generally if they give me a heads up that they're on their way, the tantrums don't occur OR they quickly walk out and scream in the car instead. :ouch:

kidkair 11-13-2010 04:05 AM

Yep they all act different at pick up. I have one 2 year old boy who cries big loud sobbing crying when mom comes. I think it's more of a release than anything. I require him to do lots of stuff during the day and sometimes he doesn't like having to wait for help and such. He just wants to tell Mom all about the bad things that happened and doesn't have the words all the time. Lately it's been getting better because he's been using his words more. I usually verbally reprimand kids when they are acting out at the door because they are still in my house. This kid would get even louder if I did that though so I worked on giving him words. The other day he was going in and out of our crafting area and banging the door horribly so I told him to stop going back and forth. Mom came in a few minutes later and instead of the melt down he said Angelique forth no. Neither one of us knew what he meant right away but then I figured it out and told the whole thing to mom. He was so happy that we understood. I made sure to put in what he was feeling too in my explanation. He then followed up with "time out ducky" and so we talked about that as well. Then I talked about the wonderful things he did too. For the most part the parents are in charge of their kid at pick up but I put my foot down on some behaviors and help the parents gets out the door.

jenh171 11-13-2010 06:31 AM

I really am very relieved to know it's not just me! If anyone comes up with anything that works to curtail this, please let me know. Oh, and I have also tried having the kids all ready to go with coat on/bag ready, etc., but that hasn't really helped too much. I've had kids pull OFF their coats and shoes while having that pick-up time meltdown...ugh!

melskids 11-13-2010 10:32 AM

...and what makes it all worse is the mom who has had a bad day at work and wants to spend 20 minutes unloading on you. meanwhile their precious little ones are jumping on the couch, climbing the toy shelves, and pulling the dogs tail.

ive gotten to the point where i am just really blunt with people. i'll cut them off and say "well, ok. have a great night" or something like that. i also stand in a way that blocks the kiddos from leaving the front door area and ripping the whole playroom apart again.

and these are the SA who do all this. you'd think by 7/8 yrs old they'd know better. :rolleyes:

DanceMom 11-13-2010 03:58 PM

Some of my kids act out when mom/dad comes...and I do help the parent correct the behavior since they are still in my house, under my rules. When they walk out of the door - it's their problem to deal with :)

nannyde 11-15-2010 04:13 AM

I call the dynamic of bad behavior at drop off and pick up "Changing of the Guard" behavior. It is seen primarily in children who are in charge of the relationship with their parents. It is seen in children who are more powerful than their parents and parents who want their child to be powerful/happy/special/ more than they want the child to have good public and interpersonal relationship. The parent does not want the child to cry so outbursts of obviously inappropriate behavior are acceptable to the parent as long as the child does them without crying and is happy. The harshest discipline used for these kids is "corporal coddling".

Changing of the guard behavior at drop off is when the child goes from being in power/control while in the care of his parents to the provider being in power/control while in the care of the provider. The child cries or acts out because they do not want to relinquish their control. They don't want the control to go to the provider so they delay the transfer of power by acting out.

They also want the provider to see that they are in control because arrivals and departures are the only opportunity the child has to make it clear to the provider that they are in control. As soon as the door closes behind the parent the child looses that really powerful position as their power supply has just backed up out the driveway.

At pick ups again the child realizes that once their power supply (parents) have arrived that they are back into power. They see that the parent again gives them the kingdom and you the provider aren't stopping them from taking over. They are used to the provider being the leader ALL day long so they KNOW something is terribly wrong when you all of a sudden stop leading.

All the kid sees is two adults who are not making him stop and demanding he behave properly in public. He has no choice to become the leader because the adults around him are not doing it. He loves to be the leader but unfortunately is ill equipped for the job as he is just a child. Children should NEVER lead adults. Children should NEVER lead themselves or other children. They are terribly inadaquate leaders. When they are allowed the job of leader the entire time they are in that role everything falls apart. Everyone is unhappy and nothing works out well.

The parent is often misbehaving at the drop off and pick up too. The parent knows when their child is behaving badly in public. They know how the adults around them looks when their child is acting up. They can feel the negative energy and exhasted energy from the adults around their child's public display of bad behavior. THEY KNOW THE PROVIDER HATES IT but they don't take over. They don't put a stop to it.

The parents often feel the provider works FOR them and because they are paying the provider that the provider should just have to DEAL with this witnessing of poor behavior. The parent doesn't care if it upsets you, your other day care kids, your kids. They are paying you and you better get to toleration quick or they will scoot on out your business.

The parent may have some other motivations for allowing it too. They may WANT the child to hang out at the day care before they go to work and after they are off of work because they are trying to get the kid off of their clock for as long as possible. There are a certain segment of parent population who allow misbehavior at drop off and pick up as a STALL technique to keep the child at day care longer. These are the ones that allow a wide breadth of time for their kid to be in care when they really only need nine hours. These parents will often pick providers with open hours so the parent can use time BEFORE work and AFTER work to be at the providers house with the kid because they don't want to be home with the kid by themselves any longer than they have to.



The provider is in a bad situation too. She doesn't like the changing of the guard behavior. She wants the child to behave as he does when SHE is leading him. She feels she can't discipline kids in front of their parent. She knows she wouldn't want someone disciplining HER kids in front of her so she sits back praying to Jesus that the parent put the kabosh on this and take over.

She also knows that it's a pretty touchy deal to start disciplining the kid especially at pick up time. She could offend the parent and the parent could pull the kid. She really really WANTS the kid to LEAVE so she can get on with her own family so she doesn't want to do ANYTHING to get prolong it.

So now you have the perfect storm. The child is being bombarded with badly behaving adults ... adults who are not being true to their feelings... adults who will not do WHATEVER it takes to show the child that the child can NEVER lead in their presence....

and a child who is BEGGING for calm stable minute to minute leadership

I don't have this dynamic in my day care because I do not EVER allow a child to lead in my home. I don't allow them to lead me or lead their parents. From the second the kid hits the inside of my house they are being led by ME. I don't leave the leadership up to the parents. I'm glad when I have ones that DO lead but I'm the leadingest leader no matter what.

IF a child is acting up at arrivals and departures despite my insistence that I be the leader then I institute the "Buh Bye Outside" program. This is where the parent says good bye to the child outside my door at drop off and does NOT come into the house. At pick up "I" say good bye to the child inside the house and send them out the door and the parent does NOT come in the house.

Both arrival and departure the child does not see the parent and I together. The parent brings the child to my door in the morning and says their goodbyes on my front step. They have as long as they want to say goodbye. They can spend an hour there if that's what they need. Once the parent knocks on my door then that is the signal that they are COMPLETELY DONE saying goodbye.

I open the door and just take the child over my threshold and shut the door very quickly. That makes the transition VERY short for the kid. This allows the parent to be the only adult tolerating the child's bad behavior. This takes away the audience for the child and parents bad behavior. This takes away the element of "you have to put up with my prince/princesses behavior because I am the boss of you and I pay you".

At departure the parent is to call me within five minutes of the arrival and we do the same thing in reverse. As soon as the parent arrives on my doorstep I open it up and assist the kid back over the threshold and quickly shut my door.

Rinse and repeat.

It usually takes about three days of the buh bye outside program to get both the parent and child to behave. By the third day the parent is bored out of their mind standing outside with their kid. The kid realizes that there isn't an audience for his behavior and the message that ANY time he is around the provider the provider is in charge is not broken or challenged.

I can always tell when we are ready to start integrating them back into the house by the decrease in the kids fit. I watch them thru the window. When the kid just comes and stands at my doorway looking at the door then I know it's time to start letting them EASE their way back into saying goodbye inside the house.

I start by allowing it at drop off but if the child causes any chaos they go back to saying good bye outside immediately. If drop off goes well for a few days then we try the inside departure. The slightest hint that the kid is going to act up and we go back to just donig the departure outside.

It's very important for the provider to take charge of the entire time the child is in your home. If you allow the parents to be the leader you will very often find that they won't do it. There are a LOT of parents who feel that their child should lead because they are special and they are theirs. It is becoming increasingly difficult to find parents who believe that they should always lead and that it is an embarrasment and a shame for their child to behave poorly around the day care.

It is an embarrasment and a shame that kids behave badly in public. We are their public. The only way to get the whole cycle to stop in my experience is to completely take charge of the entire thing. I don't allow ANY misbehavior when they are in my home. I don't hesitate in ANY way to discipline the children when they are under my roof. I don't give a flip whether their parents are here or not. The children NEVER see my behavior change when their parents arrive. I don't act any different to the child when the parent is here. I'm just as strict with my expectations whether the parent is there or not.

I don't allow parents to misbehave in my house. If they do not cease control of their kid and despite my interjections the kids are still acting up then they are not allowed the PRIVLEDGE of doing arrivals and departures inside my home. Once the parent and child looses the privledge of arrivals and departures inside they very quickly get bored of the rediculous behavior and start behaviing... BOTH the parent and the child start behaving.

Bottom line is stop allow the kid and the parent to misbehave on your properly. Your house your rulses for EVERYBODY. Be the leader the child and parent need you to be. Be the leader every second of the time you have them in your home.

When you lead they will follow and peace will be yours.

DancingQueen 11-15-2010 04:31 AM

Nan - I like a lot of what you said.
I have the problem of ALL of the kids acting up whenever ANYONE enters the home.
Now - seeing how it is NOT an option to completely stop people from entering my home (it just isn't - take me at my word) what would you suggest I do to keep the group from acting up and getting really rambunctious while I'm taking the five minutes that I need to have a conversation?
I'm very curious to hear your thoughts on this because I am at my wits end to be honest.

I also have a problem that when my afterschool kids get here the energy level of the entire group sky rockets and I almost lose control of everything.

BentleysBands 11-15-2010 04:51 AM

ditto with what everyone has said....seems like the lil demons come out at pickups LOL drives me insane. i use to have a kid who would throw toys when mom came in...he has since been gone! i normally have each kid ready w/shoes and artwork,etc ready to go. i also will busy myself with something so the parents know i'm busy....if we have to talk about something i will text or call after they leave. Nan, you have some wonder thoughts but sadly i cant do alot of it. just the way my home is layed out.

nannyde 11-15-2010 05:22 AM

Originally Posted by DancingQueen:
Nan - I like a lot of what you said.
I have the problem of ALL of the kids acting up whenever ANYONE enters the home.
Now - seeing how it is NOT an option to completely stop people from entering my home (it just isn't - take me at my word) what would you suggest I do to keep the group from acting up and getting really rambunctious while I'm taking the five minutes that I need to have a conversation?
I'm very curious to hear your thoughts on this because I am at my wits end to be honest.

I also have a problem that when my afterschool kids get here the energy level of the entire group sky rockets and I almost lose control of everything.

I can't help you with what happens when the school aged kids are there. I don't care for school aged kids because I don't like them.

I don't do arrivals and departures in the play room so I don't have any advice on that either. I think it's best to physically separate the children from the parents as much as you possibly can.

MARSTELAC 12-04-2010 07:14 PM

NannyDe: is your "Buh Bye Outside" program written somewhere in your contract? I need it! I know having such a policy will totally p*%s off a few of my parents but I can see how that will correct the problem.....

kidkair 12-05-2010 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by DancingQueen:
Nan - I like a lot of what you said.
I have the problem of ALL of the kids acting up whenever ANYONE enters the home.
Now - seeing how it is NOT an option to completely stop people from entering my home (it just isn't - take me at my word) what would you suggest I do to keep the group from acting up and getting really rambunctious while I'm taking the five minutes that I need to have a conversation?
I'm very curious to hear your thoughts on this because I am at my wits end to be honest.

I also have a problem that when my afterschool kids get here the energy level of the entire group sky rockets and I almost lose control of everything.

When my kids start getting too rambunctious because someone is here I have them all sit down. They can still talk and play with the toys in their hands but they all need to be on their butt. I remind them of proper behavior then turn my attention to the person whom I need to have a conversation with. I would do the same thing with the SA kids come. I'd have everyone sit including the SAs and do a welcome back circle time or something to integrate proper behaviors and allow everyone to say hi.

Unregistered 12-06-2010 09:47 AM

It's bizaare
 
I have a couple daycare kids that totally pull a "Sybil" when their parents arrive to pick them up. As long as I make sure that the child can still see me, then I am almost always able to keep the child in check by giving "the look" and then the child knows that I mean business. I want the children and parents to be out in the least amount of time possible, and if the child is freaking out and arguing with the parents or trying to run off, then that can't happen. I just make sure that the child has eye contact with me and I remind the child that it's time to go.

SimpleMom 12-06-2010 10:33 AM

I do a lot like KidKair for both my early childhood group and my school agers.

DancingQueen 12-06-2010 11:46 AM

I love that but my 18-28 months old won't sit when I tell them to - and I'd spend the next 10 minutes continually putting them back into a sitting position.

Originally Posted by :
I remind them of proper behavior then turn my attention to the person whom I need to have a conversation with.


kidkair 12-06-2010 11:55 AM

I'd put them in separate playpens then. My kids learn quickly to do as I instruct them to do. It's helpful that I do following directions stuff with them daily and the younger ones follow their peers. I've had a 10 month old be able to sit when I asked everyone to sit down. Also there is no way I would have them sit there for 10 minutes. I would say three would be my max. Generally after a minute I pause my conversation and let the kids return to free play if they were all sitting nicely. Then I continue my conversation and the kids remember to be quiet.

sahm2three 12-06-2010 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by jenh171:
I am lucky enough to care for the best little group of children...honestly, they are all so well-behaved all day long. But ALL of the kids I have ever watched act completely horrible the minute their mom or dad arrives to pick them up...having tantrums, throwing things, you name it. It's like someone flicked a switch. I don't understand the psychology of this, but someone told me once that it's as if they are letting mom and dad have it for being gone all day. But it almost feels manipulative too, because I think they know that I'm not going to really correct them with their parent here. It is so hard for the parents and I cannot think of a way to fix this. I just wondered if anyone else experiences this phenomena!

I do correct the kids even when parents are here. They are still in my house! If parents are doing a good job of handling it, then I stay out of it, but if the parent is being wishy washy with discipline, I will step in. Also, we have a prize box. The kids all live for the prize box. They never let me forget it. So, they know they have to behave in order to choose something out of the prize box. I don't reward them with it until they have their shoes and coats on and they are ready to head out the door. I have even gone as far as take the prize back if mom/dad continue to visit and child acts up after getting their prize. I tell them I will hold on to it for them and they can try again tomorrow. Not sure what it is about, but most kids act out when parents come. Weird, right?

Unregistered 11-01-2011 11:39 AM

Acting out at pick up time
 
I read all your responses and I am so happy to hear it's not just me. I have a 2 yr old I watch and he is a devil when mommy picks him up. He knows not to walk in my home with shoes, but does it anyways. Mom just says oh no you shouldn't do that and continues talking. He goes crazy unpacking his bag, grabbing his sippy and dripping it all over the floor, opening and closing things, pulling on mom's clothes, grabbing things and throwing them on the floor. I give him the look and he just looks at mom and laughs.

She is a chatter box and constantly says at drop off and pick up times, oh we should go, because it is confusing you. Well use your own advice and do it please. She is not clueing in. She caters to him at home to much....if he doesn't want to eat his dinner, then she makes him something else to eat. He is clinging to his mom at drop off and crying, but she puts on the my poor baby face and picks him up again or has another goodbye. I like the idea of buh bye outside.

I will try it tonight for sure. I can't stand it when he does this. But my other dilema is during our day he isolates himself. He just stands in one spot and stares. He doesn't talk at all. He constantly breathes like he is going to cry when I ask him something or tell him to play. He will not do anything until I ask him too. Extremely frustrating. Especially when we are doing crafts or just playing around. He cries when he is pulled in. But when mom gets to the door he is sooooo hyper and chatty and smiles and getting into mischief. Huh? Don't get it all. It is getting to the point where I am not sure I even want him here anymore because of this silly behaviour.

My 2 yr old daughter doesn't even want to play with him anymore because of all the crying he does and just standing there. She is so polite to him and hugging him, but now she looks at him and says shhhh when he starts to do the crying breathing again. It happens all day long. He is delayed \i think. He is just over 2 and he doesn't run. He still walks like he is a year and the way he picks small things up. Speaking, nope, he screams his head off when we r going for walks. If he walks more than 2 minutes he pulls the stroller or drops to the ground crying. People walk by and all the say is ohhhhh look at that sad face, sorry but I am thinking oh yah that poor face , whatever, I don't want to see it anymore.

I have never thought of this before towards any of my daycare children. What is so wrong with this boy? The control thing sure fits into it as well from stories I hear from mom. It's only her he throws fits with. Hitting, biting, tantrums, screaming. Help, need some good advice.

caligirl 11-01-2011 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by jenh171:
I am lucky enough to care for the best little group of children...honestly, they are all so well-behaved all day long. But ALL of the kids I have ever watched act completely horrible the minute their mom or dad arrives to pick them up...having tantrums, throwing things, you name it. It's like someone flicked a switch. I don't understand the psychology of this, but someone told me once that it's as if they are letting mom and dad have it for being gone all day. But it almost feels manipulative too, because I think they know that I'm not going to really correct them with their parent here. It is so hard for the parents and I cannot think of a way to fix this. I just wondered if anyone else experiences this phenomena!

Yep. Yep. Yep. It's a switch. I see it here daily......well, not with ALL of them, but certain kids..... they are perfect little angels all day and mom walks in and I think 'huh? where did THIS child come from?''

daycare 11-01-2011 01:55 PM

not since the nannyde bye bye outside program...

New rule..
If ya wanna save the drama for your mama, gonna have to do it outside....

Unregistered 11-01-2011 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by jenh171:
I am lucky enough to care for the best little group of children...honestly, they are all so well-behaved all day long. But ALL of the kids I have ever watched act completely horrible the minute their mom or dad arrives to pick them up...having tantrums, throwing things, you name it. It's like someone flicked a switch. I don't understand the psychology of this, but someone told me once that it's as if they are letting mom and dad have it for being gone all day. But it almost feels manipulative too, because I think they know that I'm not going to really correct them with their parent here. It is so hard for the parents and I cannot think of a way to fix this. I just wondered if anyone else experiences this phenomena!

Yup my DCB acts out not with me but with his parents. I do drop off and picks ups at the door but for example Mom will tell him to come inside he will tell her no it drives me crazy because he doesnt tell me no. In the afternoons at pick ups Mom likes to chat child will run for the street even thou he knows better, throw leaves on my porch after I swept it, touch my decorations outside even thou he knows better, Mom will say its time to go he will whine and say no even thou I know that he knows better because he doesnt do it when Mom isnt here Im tired of watching it and try to make pick ups and drop off quick without seeming rude.

renodeb 11-03-2011 09:32 AM

Yes! everyday. I have a 2 y/o who throughs him self down on the floor almost every day right when mom walks in. Sometime he starts crying as if he is over come with emotion. Hes kinda high strung like that any ways so its hard. I do step in if there mis behaving b/c I kinda feel like if there still in my house there still my responcibility (in a way). I try to kinda hand each child off to there parents all ready to go with shoes on atleast. I have even held there hand all the way to the gate by the front door. It does take some training but with some time kids can learn to behave at pickups. I think it is manipulative behavior to a degree.
I have one girl (4 y/o) that grabs onto her moms clothes, jewlery, what ever she can grab every morning she comes. I have started steppinging in b/c its become a habit with her. This same girl is whinny at pickups, she usually leaves first out of the group (moms a teacher) and she wakes up real sleepy and whiny. What ages are your dc kids?
Maybe you need to post a notice about behavior at pickups and ask the parents to take there child by the hand to there cars.
Debbie

iheartkids 11-03-2011 11:16 AM

Gosh, I guess I don't think too "deeply" about it. I don't think there is any psycological reason as far as "power" and "control". I just think of it as the child can't control their excitement to see mom and dad, they're upset if you are doing something fun and they have to leave, they're deflating from the stimulation of daycare, and they want their parents attention and this "production" gets it for them. I remember doing this as a TEENAGER after spending the night at a friends house. I would come home and just be a BEAR to my parents. And my DD does the exact same thing when she comes home from a friends house.
If we are around snack time when they get picked up a simple, "want a cracker for the road?" usually gets them out quietly. If the parent is hanging around chatting and the kids are acting up I do correct them in front of the parent because it embarrasses them and kicks them into the "parent gear" so that they will start correcting them. If you let them jump on your couch while they are here then they will think you let them jump on it while they are gone. Kids always want attention...that's the bottom line.

VanessaEO 11-03-2011 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by SandeeAR:
I guess that is where I'm different. If my kids acted out at pickup, I "would" correct them. They are still in my home, in my care until they step out that door on the way to the car, and I shut the door.

All of mine are babie, but one, so I don't have any of that yet, but yes, I would correct them.

I do too. I correct them until they are basically in their parents' car.

I have parents that very seriously let their 2-3-4 year old walk all over them. I don't have to stand for it. Most of the time, I honestly believe that the parents are actually grateful for my willingness to intervene.

Unregistered 03-21-2013 12:04 AM

My 1 yr old,
 
so heres the thing my lil girl never had probs at pick up or drop off until i had to go out to sea for 3 weeks and lost our spot in her daycare so we instead use an inhome daycare and she throws the bigest fit ever at drop off clinging to me and crying her hart out, but as soon as i'm gone she calms down and plays with the other kids i know this because when i pick her up i'll watch her play and have fun through the door its just like a light switch the second she sees me full on waterworks assult happens and she acts as if she has been crying the entire time i was gone, now heres the tricky she does not do it in a actual daycare (one day our lady was sick so i called her old daycare and got a dropin rate for the day) NOT a SINGLE prob at drop off or pick up. but she acts the same way at her dads freaks out at drop off and pick up.

rmc20021 03-21-2013 04:44 AM

Originally Posted by nannyde:
I call the dynamic of bad behavior at drop off and pick up "Changing of the Guard" behavior. It is seen primarily in children who are in charge of the relationship with their parents. It is seen in children who are more powerful than their parents and parents who want their child to be powerful/happy/special/ more than they want the child to have good public and interpersonal relationship. The parent does not want the child to cry so outbursts of obviously inappropriate behavior are acceptable to the parent as long as the child does them without crying and is happy. The harshest discipline used for these kids is "corporal coddling".

Changing of the guard behavior at drop off is when the child goes from being in power/control while in the care of his parents to the provider being in power/control while in the care of the provider. The child cries or acts out because they do not want to relinquish their control. They don't want the control to go to the provider so they delay the transfer of power by acting out.

They also want the provider to see that they are in control because arrivals and departures are the only opportunity the child has to make it clear to the provider that they are in control. As soon as the door closes behind the parent the child looses that really powerful position as their power supply has just backed up out the driveway.

At pick ups again the child realizes that once their power supply (parents) have arrived that they are back into power. They see that the parent again gives them the kingdom and you the provider aren't stopping them from taking over. They are used to the provider being the leader ALL day long so they KNOW something is terribly wrong when you all of a sudden stop leading.

All the kid sees is two adults who are not making him stop and demanding he behave properly in public. He has no choice to become the leader because the adults around him are not doing it. He loves to be the leader but unfortunately is ill equipped for the job as he is just a child. Children should NEVER lead adults. Children should NEVER lead themselves or other children. They are terribly inadaquate leaders. When they are allowed the job of leader the entire time they are in that role everything falls apart. Everyone is unhappy and nothing works out well.

The parent is often misbehaving at the drop off and pick up too. The parent knows when their child is behaving badly in public. They know how the adults around them looks when their child is acting up. They can feel the negative energy and exhasted energy from the adults around their child's public display of bad behavior. THEY KNOW THE PROVIDER HATES IT but they don't take over. They don't put a stop to it.

The parents often feel the provider works FOR them and because they are paying the provider that the provider should just have to DEAL with this witnessing of poor behavior. The parent doesn't care if it upsets you, your other day care kids, your kids. They are paying you and you better get to toleration quick or they will scoot on out your business.

The parent may have some other motivations for allowing it too. They may WANT the child to hang out at the day care before they go to work and after they are off of work because they are trying to get the kid off of their clock for as long as possible. There are a certain segment of parent population who allow misbehavior at drop off and pick up as a STALL technique to keep the child at day care longer. These are the ones that allow a wide breadth of time for their kid to be in care when they really only need nine hours. These parents will often pick providers with open hours so the parent can use time BEFORE work and AFTER work to be at the providers house with the kid because they don't want to be home with the kid by themselves any longer than they have to.



The provider is in a bad situation too. She doesn't like the changing of the guard behavior. She wants the child to behave as he does when SHE is leading him. She feels she can't discipline kids in front of their parent. She knows she wouldn't want someone disciplining HER kids in front of her so she sits back praying to Jesus that the parent put the kabosh on this and take over.

She also knows that it's a pretty touchy deal to start disciplining the kid especially at pick up time. She could offend the parent and the parent could pull the kid. She really really WANTS the kid to LEAVE so she can get on with her own family so she doesn't want to do ANYTHING to get prolong it.

So now you have the perfect storm. The child is being bombarded with badly behaving adults ... adults who are not being true to their feelings... adults who will not do WHATEVER it takes to show the child that the child can NEVER lead in their presence....

and a child who is BEGGING for calm stable minute to minute leadership

I don't have this dynamic in my day care because I do not EVER allow a child to lead in my home. I don't allow them to lead me or lead their parents. From the second the kid hits the inside of my house they are being led by ME. I don't leave the leadership up to the parents. I'm glad when I have ones that DO lead but I'm the leadingest leader no matter what.

IF a child is acting up at arrivals and departures despite my insistence that I be the leader then I institute the "Buh Bye Outside" program. This is where the parent says good bye to the child outside my door at drop off and does NOT come into the house. At pick up "I" say good bye to the child inside the house and send them out the door and the parent does NOT come in the house.

Both arrival and departure the child does not see the parent and I together. The parent brings the child to my door in the morning and says their goodbyes on my front step. They have as long as they want to say goodbye. They can spend an hour there if that's what they need. Once the parent knocks on my door then that is the signal that they are COMPLETELY DONE saying goodbye.

I open the door and just take the child over my threshold and shut the door very quickly. That makes the transition VERY short for the kid. This allows the parent to be the only adult tolerating the child's bad behavior. This takes away the audience for the child and parents bad behavior. This takes away the element of "you have to put up with my prince/princesses behavior because I am the boss of you and I pay you".

At departure the parent is to call me within five minutes of the arrival and we do the same thing in reverse. As soon as the parent arrives on my doorstep I open it up and assist the kid back over the threshold and quickly shut my door.

Rinse and repeat.

It usually takes about three days of the buh bye outside program to get both the parent and child to behave. By the third day the parent is bored out of their mind standing outside with their kid. The kid realizes that there isn't an audience for his behavior and the message that ANY time he is around the provider the provider is in charge is not broken or challenged.

I can always tell when we are ready to start integrating them back into the house by the decrease in the kids fit. I watch them thru the window. When the kid just comes and stands at my doorway looking at the door then I know it's time to start letting them EASE their way back into saying goodbye inside the house.

I start by allowing it at drop off but if the child causes any chaos they go back to saying good bye outside immediately. If drop off goes well for a few days then we try the inside departure. The slightest hint that the kid is going to act up and we go back to just donig the departure outside.

It's very important for the provider to take charge of the entire time the child is in your home. If you allow the parents to be the leader you will very often find that they won't do it. There are a LOT of parents who feel that their child should lead because they are special and they are theirs. It is becoming increasingly difficult to find parents who believe that they should always lead and that it is an embarrasment and a shame for their child to behave poorly around the day care.

It is an embarrasment and a shame that kids behave badly in public. We are their public. The only way to get the whole cycle to stop in my experience is to completely take charge of the entire thing. I don't allow ANY misbehavior when they are in my home. I don't hesitate in ANY way to discipline the children when they are under my roof. I don't give a flip whether their parents are here or not. The children NEVER see my behavior change when their parents arrive. I don't act any different to the child when the parent is here. I'm just as strict with my expectations whether the parent is there or not.

I don't allow parents to misbehave in my house. If they do not cease control of their kid and despite my interjections the kids are still acting up then they are not allowed the PRIVLEDGE of doing arrivals and departures inside my home. Once the parent and child looses the privledge of arrivals and departures inside they very quickly get bored of the rediculous behavior and start behaviing... BOTH the parent and the child start behaving.

Bottom line is stop allow the kid and the parent to misbehave on your properly. Your house your rulses for EVERYBODY. Be the leader the child and parent need you to be. Be the leader every second of the time you have them in your home.

When you lead they will follow and peace will be yours.

Totally and completely agree. When a child is in daycare all day long and have rules which are different than what they have at home, they want to show the provider they can do all the things which are forbidden at the daycare, yet they can do with their parents. I don't think I've ever had a child who hasn't acted out in one way or another at (mostly) pickup time.

Jewels 03-21-2013 05:49 AM

I don't have any that just act out, I used to have 1, but she was a hard kid here also.....I do have 1 very sweet almost 3 year old, that I know holds his emotions in all day, there are times I know he wants to cry but he just sucks it back, sometimes when his mom comes, he will drop himself down and start to cry while getting his coat, on and he'll get frustrated a little, and mom says when he gets home he usually goes to his room and cries for 5 minutes then comes back out ready to play, he is just the sweetest boy, I love him so much, him and his brother are awesome kids, its not like he acts out, he just starts getting rid of some of those emotions, he will let me hold hug and comfort him during the day, but I can always tell he wants his mommy.

Angelsj 03-21-2013 05:59 AM

Originally Posted by DancingQueen:
Nan - I like a lot of what you said.
I have the problem of ALL of the kids acting up whenever ANYONE enters the home.
Now - seeing how it is NOT an option to completely stop people from entering my home (it just isn't - take me at my word) what would you suggest I do to keep the group from acting up and getting really rambunctious while I'm taking the five minutes that I need to have a conversation?
I'm very curious to hear your thoughts on this because I am at my wits end to be honest.

I also have a problem that when my afterschool kids get here the energy level of the entire group sky rockets and I almost lose control of everything.

School age kids have to be strictly controlled. You need to sit them down and have a chat. Decide how you want your afternoon to go.
We do:
Arrival, hang up coats and sit down for snack 20 mins
If it is nice, send them outside for the remainder of the time
If not, have a craft/painting/legos or something they must do sitting at the table. I have several toys that only the older kids can use. Either the littles are gone at that time, or I give the older kids a safe place to use the "older kid" toys separate from the little ones.
Not sure how long you have them, but you cannot just let them come in and free play. You must remain strictly in control if you cannot give them an outdoor place to run wild. They have been cooped up all day at school and have a ton of energy that must be channeled.

nannyde 03-21-2013 06:35 AM

Originally Posted by Angelsj:
School age kids have to be strictly controlled. You need to sit them down and have a chat. Decide how you want your afternoon to go.
We do:
Arrival, hang up coats and sit down for snack 20 mins
If it is nice, send them outside for the remainder of the time
If not, have a craft/painting/legos or something they must do sitting at the table. I have several toys that only the older kids can use. Either the littles are gone at that time, or I give the older kids a safe place to use the "older kid" toys separate from the little ones.
Not sure how long you have them, but you cannot just let them come in and free play. You must remain strictly in control if you cannot give them an outdoor place to run wild. They have been cooped up all day at school and have a ton of energy that must be channeled.

We aren't allowed to send them outside without an adult outside with them at all times AND that adult can not be an assistant. It HAS to be a co-provider or a substitute. A substitute has to be 21 years or older AND you can only use a substitute 28 hours per month.

It would take the entire salary of the school agers to cover the adult who has to be outside with them. A substitute is expensive.

I don't take school agers. They are too expensive and the pay is too small. They are too much work and cause too many issues with equipment, interpersonal issues, and parent/provider conflict. They also don't take a nap so they are out of the question.

Springdaze 03-21-2013 06:38 AM

i find my own kids are the worst at pick up. I can see a change in behavior and look at the clock and it is always 5pm when it starts! I wish they would "go home" at pick up time!

Blackcat31 03-21-2013 06:47 AM

Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I was totally gonna post this same question!! I have a 3 yr old dcg who I've had since birth M-F and just recently she has become this crazy wild child I have NEVER seen before at pick up time. I have an entry way that is completely separated by a half door so she has no audience except parent picking up (and me) but she climbs the coat cubbies, jumps onto and off of the bench, pulls things out of other's baskets and basically turns into Sybill. Dcm just goes about her business and tries her best to get dcg shoes and coat on. I have tried saying something to both dcm and child, but nothing seems to phase this girl. We have even tried discussions the next morning, pep talks right before pick up to remind her of rules and she just goes crazy every day at pick up regardless. Lately I have been just walking away from entry room and leaving dcm to deal with her flailing wailing child on her own.
I also have an 18 month old who clings to me and cries and freaks out whenever I try to hand her over 1/2 door to dcm at pick up. I get that she loves being here, but sheesh! Pick ups are becoming crazy here!
I guess it beats screaming kids at drop off since they ALL come in eagerly...just seems as though NO ONE wants to leave lately!!

LOL!! This is an old thread so reading my post from back then is funny!

I know the info is still relevant but I no longer have this issue (with ay of my DCK's) and I still have this 3 yr old and the 18 month old I mentioned above.

Of course they are older now but wow! how things change! :)

Play Care 03-21-2013 06:55 AM

In my state school agers can be outside without me but I physically have to check on them every 15 minutes. I do allow it because the back of my home is mostly windows and I have a good view of them in the back yard. But I am constantly making sure they are behaving...I will say that I do agree with having to be on school agers every minute and let them know who is in charge. If I could get rid of the school aged kids I would, because I find them to be more trouble than they are worth.

I have done the outside good byes and it really helps.

Brooksie 03-21-2013 06:59 AM

I have it in my contracts that during pick up and drop off the parents are responsible for their Children's behavior. I'm not going to step on their parenting. I have a couple older kids that really act out but my others are infants and are always happy to see their parents. But recently I got a drop in kid who is almost 3 and when his Step mom/dads girlfriend picks him up (always the last kid to be picked up) he cries and hides behind me and doesn't want to leave, even though before she walks in the door he says he's excited to see her. I can really tell that it bothers her and she always tries to explain to me that he normally really likes her. It kinda breaks my heart for her, but I just explain that with that age kids are experiencing a lot of new emotions and its just a little separation anxiety. All kids do it at some point, in some way. I have another B/C school age 5 yr old who is an angel for me, and always listens the first time I ask, but he hides from his dad when he picks him up and dilly dallies. He also acts like he cant put his shoes or coat on by himself and despite multiple requests from his dad, rarely listens the first time. I really don't think its my place to jump in and take over, since he listens here so well. Its just kind of like, rubbing it in their face at that point. Like "IDK why he doesn't liksten to you, he's great here" I think it just seems like overkill. Let them deal with it once they are out of the door.

Jewels 03-21-2013 07:31 AM

Originally Posted by Play Care:
In my state school agers can be outside without me but I physically have to check on them every 15 minutes. I do allow it because the back of my home is mostly windows and I have a good view of them in the back yard. But I am constantly making sure they are behaving...I will say that I do agree with having to be on school agers every minute and let them know who is in charge. If I could get rid of the school aged kids I would, because I find them to be more trouble than they are worth.

I have done the outside good byes and it really helps.

My school agers are also aloud to be outside by themselves, I only "need to be available to them" I love this in the summer, as they go outside to play during rest time.

Lefse&Kids 05-14-2013 09:13 AM

I love the outside bye bye method. I used to have issues with pick-up and drop-offs but since I switched to having the kids get ready to go home I have had no real issues . I think it works because as soon as they are able to try to put on shoes I have them start practicing getting ready to go. So from day one they know what to expect. Also, I believe it helps their mind transition from "daycare" to "home". Children need that transition time, and without our guidance on how they need to respond during that time they go NUTS. I also believe that it is both power and excitement involved in the mass amount of misbehavior during pick-ups (that's when it happens most for me, if ever)

hope 05-14-2013 11:20 AM

I had a problem with the DCKs and my own children acting out at pick ups so now I seperate the kids by age groups. I keep the newborn, one year old and two year olds in the playroom with me. The five, four and three year olds play in my kids bedrooms. The three and four year old are mine so they are fine playing in their rooms without me for twenty minutes. Pick ups have run a lot more smoothly now. For whatever reason it works!

melilley 05-14-2013 11:57 AM

Yes mine do! We are usually outside at pick up or doing free play and they don't want to go home! Some kick and scream all the way to their car. I guess it's a good sign that they like it here! :)

jenn 05-14-2013 12:23 PM

This is an old thread, but a good one likethis

I love the bye bye outside. Mine are coats on, belongings gathered, ready to step out the door when I answer it. The kid goes out to the parent waiting on the porch, I shut the door, nice and smooth.

A concern I do have though, is I have two parents that then let their child run all around after outside. I am inside watching from the window (they can't see me), but rather than grabbing their kid and getting them in the car, they let them run around the yard. Yesterday one was in my flowerbed and the mom just let her climb around until she was ready to go. The other child on day was almost hit by a car while the dad watched him run up and down the sidewalk and into the street. What about the liability in that? They are on my property, but have been released to the parent and I am back inside caring for other kids. I have talked to the parents many times about this, but they are both families that let their kids lead.

lovemykidstoo 05-14-2013 12:28 PM

I have the same issues as you all do. A couple of things have been irritating me lately. I have a couple of parents that will pick up their children (2 and 3 yrs old) and hold them while saying goodbye to me at pickup. The light switch (3 switches) is right there. These parents sit there and let their kids turn on and off, on and off the switches while talking to me. I have said, oh no don't do that and yet they still stand there and let them do it. Drives me nuts.

Also another issue is sometimes when 2 of them come at once the 2 moms start flapping to each other and they are the last ones to pickup. So I'm standing their letting them gab and really just want to shove them out the door so I can begin my night. What is a tackful way to tell them to beat it?

Michelle 05-14-2013 01:32 PM

I remember the conveyer belt idea someone said on a very old thread...
that would work really great too!

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

AmyKidsCo 05-14-2013 02:42 PM

I've had that too - at one time I used a Treasure Box as a bribe for the children to go home nicely! :lol:

One thing I do early in the relationship is find a time to casually mention that all children go through a phase where they don't want to come in the morning and don't want to go home at night. I'll talk about it a couple of times, then when the child reaches the phase the parents are fore-warned. IMO it's better to let them know at a time when the child ISN'T going through it than wait until they do - if you wait it looks like you're making things up so the parent won't be upset.

jacksmommy13 01-17-2016 09:39 AM

I'm a new in home daycare provider and I'm having this problem! I just posted a new thread about my dcb that throws tantrums (and takes toys/food home at pickup). It is stressful. He's my only full time dc and I can't afford to trem him. It makes it worse that he's throwing a tantrum and demanding food/toys. Our main door is in our kitchen, no avoiding it and the playroom is right next to the kitchen. He screams and throws himself on the floor as soon as I open the door for mom.
I love the bye bye outside!!! Do you have it written in your contract? How did you bring it up to switch to bye bye outside?

Unregistered 04-04-2018 02:02 PM

I read on here on time. If the child repeatedly acts up at pick up, talk to the parent & child and tell them the very next time and every time there after, they have to wait outside, you the provider will put on the child's jacket etc, the provider walks child to the door opens it and parent takes child to their car. If you have an assistant, parent texts/calls when they pull up and the assistant can get child ready and walk them to the car. Do this a few days and see how child acts the next time you allow the parent inside at pick up. ***Parent and provider must work together on this. I did it with one of my parents, but she kept making it a threat to her child but would not step outside and close the door. Not until she actually acted on it and went out the door and I closed it did it become effective.

Unregistered 04-05-2018 07:12 AM

Hair oil
 
Just started taking care of a beautiful little east indian girl. She has long hair which is usually in a braid but it is always saturated with oil!!! I asked the mom if she could not put the oil in on daycare days but she says they have to do it or her hair gets really dry and brittle.

I may have to terminate .... over hair!!!!! I t leaves a stain on my couch, the pack-n-play she sleeps in and now she is laying all over my carpet when she gets tired and I am constantly telling her to sit up and stop rubbing her head on everything!!

Uggggg, after 30 years in daycare I thought I had seen everything.

Ac114 04-05-2018 08:09 AM

I realize I’m responding to an 8 year old post but it seems to be a common theme amongst us childcare providers. I have a child that I’m on the verge of terming because of her wild behavior at pick up. It would be one thing if her mom helped out or even corrected her child but she doesn’t it. NOT ONE WORD. She ripped the weather stripping out of my door last week, she constantly turns the lights on and off, (we’ll be sitting in the dark and it doesn’t click to tell your child to stop) opening up my cabinets and pulling food out. It’s becoming too stressful because I feel like a broken record of saying, stop doing that, please don’t touch that, quit turning off the lights etc. and the parent just sits there twiddling their thumbs.

Blackcat31 04-05-2018 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by Ac114:
I realize I’m responding to an 8 year old post but it seems to be a common theme amongst us childcare providers. I have a child that I’m on the verge of terming because of her wild behavior at pick up. It would be one thing if her mom helped out or even corrected her child but she doesn’t it. NOT ONE WORD. She ripped the weather stripping out of my door last week, she constantly turns the lights on and off, (we’ll be sitting in the dark and it doesn’t click to tell your child to stop) opening up my cabinets and pulling food out. It’s becoming too stressful because I feel like a broken record of saying, stop doing that, please don’t touch that, quit turning off the lights etc. and the parent just sits there twiddling their thumbs.

It's only common for providers that aren't aware of the Bye-Bye Outside technique ;)
https://www.daycare.com/nannyde/?s=C...g+of+the+guard

Ac114 04-05-2018 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
It's only common for providers that aren't aware of the Bye-Bye Outside technique ;)
https://www.daycare.com/nannyde/?s=C...g+of+the+guard

Do you explain this to the parent before you do it or do you just do it and hand them their child? I will definitely try this because I am at my wits end with it.

Blackcat31 04-05-2018 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by Ac114:
Do you explain this to the parent before you do it or do you just do it and hand them their child? I will definitely try this because I am at my wits end with it.

I don't...I'm too blunt and bossy that I don't use this method for bad behavior at pickup.... Most my daycare parents are my own kids' age or younger so it's second nature for me to state my expectations clearly without fear of the parent being offended.

In your situation, I would absolutely tell the parent before hand...I'd tell them since they can't manage their child's behavior during pick up, that you are implementing the Bye-Bye Outside method of exchanging the child.

If mom/dad don't like it, tell them you have no choice as you can't allow the child to be so destructive and disobedient during times of transition as it's a liability to you and your program and will not be tolerated so Bye-Bye Outside.. ;)

Lawson2 04-05-2018 11:04 AM

I haven't read all the responses, but I did read nannydes and I agree 100%. As a seasoned childcare worker, I have seen this multiple times. It it boils down to two things...
1) The child has been keeping it "together" all day and melts down when the parents arrive.
2)This usually happens when the child is in control of the parents.

And this happened when I was a nanny and as a daycare provider. Funny, now I have my own two boys (ages 7 and almost 2), they have never acted like this in childcare, but I'm the one on control (and guess what, they are happy well-adjusted kids! 😏).

As a nanny, the family that the children were in control had two girls. The older girl would show her control by telling me that she "just wanted to show me one more thing" and I would be stuck watching her next "show". The mother thought it was adorable (the girl was around 7 at the time). I just wanted to end my shift. After all, I was there for 11 hour days! The mother never once took control, or tried to stop it. More than once, the girl even hung on my car.... 😳

Now, here I am older and wiser. Ha!

I now provide childcare in my home. I'm in the same boat with two siblings and then another family, who has one boy.

With the two siblings, they scream at their parents. They don't really do anything to me and the parents do get them dressed to leave...So, it doesn't really hinder me, although I am appalled by the behavior. but, they know I don't tolerate that behavior here, so up until the parents leave they act like this and when they return, they act like this. No wonder the mother told me she could never stay home with her kids...
Again, the parents get them out the door quickly, so I just watch the circus show (they are my last family of the day).
The older child is also allowed to interrupt constantly... The children are both great here though.

And the one other child doesn't scream or cry, but he dumps toys, throws tables over, etc... Anything he can knock over, he will try.
The mother doesn't reprimand him, or make him clean it up.
She just laughs and says, "what a jerk". And we are talking about highly educated people here... 😏
So, I now tell him, we aren't going to dump anything when your mother arrives and he usually listens. To stop the behavior I had to be the one to pick him up and tell him no and hand him over to his mother though.
This ties into being older. I don't have the time to deal with nonsense anymore, or really care what people think of me. They should be embarrassed for putting me in that situation. I wouldn't allow my children to do that....

My children are by no means perfect and I get it to an extent, I have had a lot of experience with different families before having my own. I saw things that made me parent the way I do. I am so grateful for that. My kids know I set the rules and they are truly happy and content. And others say they are very good kids to watch.... I say I don't know why parents would want their kids to run the household, but I do know why (or I can take an educated guess)...
They aren't with them much during the week, so they give into them to make it easy. And the parents are too tired to parent... It is mind boggling really.

Unregistered 12-05-2018 03:38 AM

Dismantling Bad Theories
 

Originally Posted by nannyde:
I call the dynamic of bad behavior at drop off and pick up "Changing of the Guard" behavior. It is seen primarily in children who are in charge of the relationship with their parents. It is seen in children who are more powerful than their parents and parents who want their child to be powerful/happy/special/ more than they want the child to have good public and interpersonal relationship. The parent does not want the child to cry so outbursts of obviously inappropriate behavior are acceptable to the parent as long as the child does them without crying and is happy. The harshest discipline used for these kids is "corporal coddling".

Changing of the guard behavior at drop off is when the child goes from being in power/control while in the care of his parents to the provider being in power/control while in the care of the provider. The child cries or acts out because they do not want to relinquish their control. They don't want the control to go to the provider so they delay the transfer of power by acting out.

They also want the provider to see that they are in control because arrivals and departures are the only opportunity the child has to make it clear to the provider that they are in control. As soon as the door closes behind the parent the child looses that really powerful position as their power supply has just backed up out the driveway.

At pick ups again the child realizes that once their power supply (parents) have arrived that they are back into power. They see that the parent again gives them the kingdom and you the provider aren't stopping them from taking over. They are used to the provider being the leader ALL day long so they KNOW something is terribly wrong when you all of a sudden stop leading.

All the kid sees is two adults who are not making him stop and demanding he behave properly in public. He has no choice to become the leader because the adults around him are not doing it. He loves to be the leader but unfortunately is ill equipped for the job as he is just a child. Children should NEVER lead adults. Children should NEVER lead themselves or other children. They are terribly inadaquate leaders. When they are allowed the job of leader the entire time they are in that role everything falls apart. Everyone is unhappy and nothing works out well.

The parent is often misbehaving at the drop off and pick up too. The parent knows when their child is behaving badly in public. They know how the adults around them looks when their child is acting up. They can feel the negative energy and exhasted energy from the adults around their child's public display of bad behavior. THEY KNOW THE PROVIDER HATES IT but they don't take over. They don't put a stop to it.

The parents often feel the provider works FOR them and because they are paying the provider that the provider should just have to DEAL with this witnessing of poor behavior. The parent doesn't care if it upsets you, your other day care kids, your kids. They are paying you and you better get to toleration quick or they will scoot on out your business.

The parent may have some other motivations for allowing it too. They may WANT the child to hang out at the day care before they go to work and after they are off of work because they are trying to get the kid off of their clock for as long as possible. There are a certain segment of parent population who allow misbehavior at drop off and pick up as a STALL technique to keep the child at day care longer. These are the ones that allow a wide breadth of time for their kid to be in care when they really only need nine hours. These parents will often pick providers with open hours so the parent can use time BEFORE work and AFTER work to be at the providers house with the kid because they don't want to be home with the kid by themselves any longer than they have to.



The provider is in a bad situation too. She doesn't like the changing of the guard behavior. She wants the child to behave as he does when SHE is leading him. She feels she can't discipline kids in front of their parent. She knows she wouldn't want someone disciplining HER kids in front of her so she sits back praying to Jesus that the parent put the kabosh on this and take over.

She also knows that it's a pretty touchy deal to start disciplining the kid especially at pick up time. She could offend the parent and the parent could pull the kid. She really really WANTS the kid to LEAVE so she can get on with her own family so she doesn't want to do ANYTHING to get prolong it.

So now you have the perfect storm. The child is being bombarded with badly behaving adults ... adults who are not being true to their feelings... adults who will not do WHATEVER it takes to show the child that the child can NEVER lead in their presence....

and a child who is BEGGING for calm stable minute to minute leadership

I don't have this dynamic in my day care because I do not EVER allow a child to lead in my home. I don't allow them to lead me or lead their parents. From the second the kid hits the inside of my house they are being led by ME. I don't leave the leadership up to the parents. I'm glad when I have ones that DO lead but I'm the leadingest leader no matter what.

IF a child is acting up at arrivals and departures despite my insistence that I be the leader then I institute the "Buh Bye Outside" program. This is where the parent says good bye to the child outside my door at drop off and does NOT come into the house. At pick up "I" say good bye to the child inside the house and send them out the door and the parent does NOT come in the house.

Both arrival and departure the child does not see the parent and I together. The parent brings the child to my door in the morning and says their goodbyes on my front step. They have as long as they want to say goodbye. They can spend an hour there if that's what they need. Once the parent knocks on my door then that is the signal that they are COMPLETELY DONE saying goodbye.

I open the door and just take the child over my threshold and shut the door very quickly. That makes the transition VERY short for the kid. This allows the parent to be the only adult tolerating the child's bad behavior. This takes away the audience for the child and parents bad behavior. This takes away the element of "you have to put up with my prince/princesses behavior because I am the boss of you and I pay you".

At departure the parent is to call me within five minutes of the arrival and we do the same thing in reverse. As soon as the parent arrives on my doorstep I open it up and assist the kid back over the threshold and quickly shut my door.

Rinse and repeat.

It usually takes about three days of the buh bye outside program to get both the parent and child to behave. By the third day the parent is bored out of their mind standing outside with their kid. The kid realizes that there isn't an audience for his behavior and the message that ANY time he is around the provider the provider is in charge is not broken or challenged.

I can always tell when we are ready to start integrating them back into the house by the decrease in the kids fit. I watch them thru the window. When the kid just comes and stands at my doorway looking at the door then I know it's time to start letting them EASE their way back into saying goodbye inside the house.

I start by allowing it at drop off but if the child causes any chaos they go back to saying good bye outside immediately. If drop off goes well for a few days then we try the inside departure. The slightest hint that the kid is going to act up and we go back to just donig the departure outside.

It's very important for the provider to take charge of the entire time the child is in your home. If you allow the parents to be the leader you will very often find that they won't do it. There are a LOT of parents who feel that their child should lead because they are special and they are theirs. It is becoming increasingly difficult to find parents who believe that they should always lead and that it is an embarrasment and a shame for their child to behave poorly around the day care.

It is an embarrasment and a shame that kids behave badly in public. We are their public. The only way to get the whole cycle to stop in my experience is to completely take charge of the entire thing. I don't allow ANY misbehavior when they are in my home. I don't hesitate in ANY way to discipline the children when they are under my roof. I don't give a flip whether their parents are here or not. The children NEVER see my behavior change when their parents arrive. I don't act any different to the child when the parent is here. I'm just as strict with my expectations whether the parent is there or not.

I don't allow parents to misbehave in my house. If they do not cease control of their kid and despite my interjections the kids are still acting up then they are not allowed the PRIVLEDGE of doing arrivals and departures inside my home. Once the parent and child looses the privledge of arrivals and departures inside they very quickly get bored of the rediculous behavior and start behaviing... BOTH the parent and the child start behaving.

Bottom line is stop allow the kid and the parent to misbehave on your properly. Your house your rulses for EVERYBODY. Be the leader the child and parent need you to be. Be the leader every second of the time you have them in your home.

When you lead they will follow and peace will be yours.

Blaming the mom is dated psychology. NannyDe's reason WHY the child acts out is messed up. I'd NEVER want someone reflecting these INNER qualities watching my child.

ON TO A BETTER UNDERSTANDING....
The child acts out because deep down he/she would rather be with the parent not a DC provider although you maybe great. The child can pick up on the adults (PARENT & DC WORKER) ambivalence about who is responsible for enforcing good behavior SINCE TWO BOSSE'S ARE IN THE ROOM. Some adults don't know. Do I correct my child? Or respect the boundaries of this house/school? And vice versa. The babysitter don't want to correct the child in front of the parent so they look mean or whatever - so boom. A perfect storm for a child to express his/her upset at being left with a non-real parent and having to put on airs of cooperation all day. Now Mommy's here all is well and I can express how I really feel to be in this setting. No matter how wonderful.

The QUICK CHANGING OF THE GUARDS method is useful - YOU CAN ALSO correct the child's behavior right there (parent AND Babysitter together). When you (the Parent) get home correct it again and have a consequence in place.

I am appalled at the lack of united fronts lots of daycare/babysitter's have. It's like deep down inside they want to believe they are better than the parent can do a better job than the parent - well you can't and you don't.

MAKE SURE I'TS NOT YOU. I HATE some of the DC techniques of IGNORE A CHILD UNLESS THEY WHINE OR GIVE IN WHEN THEY WHINE. I don't do that at home and it's like they are showing mommy - see this is what I DO HERE TO GET WHAT I WANT lol. Do you see? As a play therapist mom - I taught my son to ask for what he want as early as two. All other setting did NOT acknowledge him unliess he WHINED WTHeck. Anyway disgruntled DC workers keep in mind.

Everyone is getting played.

All of my sons worst behavior emerged AFTER he went into DC And I had to find a place that didn't do that fake sing-songy thing when I'm in the room and act differently when I leave. You know how y'all do. Ignoring, texting, chatting, etc. Now I have to deal with passivity in DC workers ugh.

Do the reverse research and STOP commiserating against the parents - but woah you won't do that it's your bread and butter :) it reinforces the fantasy you would be a better parent to that child when you are just the babysitter.

NancyDE "whisperer" ha sounds like she stole some of her "theorizings" from Narcissistic Personality" research which is overdone on the web.

BTW my background is in psychology, play therapy, and I am a mom.

Vesta 12-05-2018 05:01 AM

Hey unregistered, whatever useful information you thought you were providing got lost in the snide condescending snark. Hope you feel better now.

lovemykidstoo 12-05-2018 05:08 AM

I have had to do the bye bye outside a few times in the past 18 years. It absolutely works. If a child is misbehaving at my house at drop off or pickup or drop off I treat it differently depending on what it is. If a child is interrupting when mom is speaking to me, I let her handle that. If I'm talking and a child interrupts me when I' talking, I put my finger up and say one minute johnny let me finish and then I can hear you. I've had kids play with my window blinds that are next to the door, I tell them no after I wait a second for mom or dad to do it. Flipping the lights on and off, I wait a second for mom or dad and then I tell them no, just like I would during the day. In a nutshell, I am not going to let a kid go nuts. I do give the parent an opportunity to correct it. If they don't, I will. My house, my rules. I have had one of my very bad kids that was 3 1/2 just be awful. We would have a talk right before mom got here. About what I expected. I told him if he didn't behave then the first thing he would do in the morning is sit. I am not doing an immediate time out when mom was here. I wanted him gone. So he tried me a couple of times, probably thinking I would forget by the morning. He came the next day and I had an immediate talk with him. Remember johnny how you behaved and did this and that? Yup, I do. sit then! He was shocked. He only did that a couple of times.

Blackcat31 12-05-2018 06:29 AM

Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I am appalled at the lack of united fronts lots of daycare/babysitter's have. It's like deep down inside they want to believe they are better than the parent can do a better job than the parent - well you can't and you don't.

But I do. You've parented for less than a decade maybe two. And it's progressive.

I've care for, raised, taught, nurtured and loved children under the age of 12 for over two and half decades. Basically, I've had a 2 yr old (albeit a different one) but had a 2 yr old for a really long time. Pretty sure that gives me MORE experience and knowledge than you as a parent or a therapist will ever have. My hands on experience trumps your textbook knowledge every time. ;)

Plus you said your child is or was in daycare so again, that's face to face parent time you didn't have.

Originally Posted by Unregistered:
BTW my background is in psychology, play therapy, and I am a mom.

WORST parents I've ever had (and not once) were in the same field. Thought they knew everything but yet they weren't the one caring for their child on a day to day basis. :cool:

Originally Posted by Vesta:
Hey unregistered, whatever useful information you thought you were providing got lost in the snide condescending snark. Hope you feel better now.

Right? When the message is supportive, helpful and clear it is received and accepted so much better. When it's riddled with condescension, rudeness and a holier-than-thou attitude, it's often discarded without merit.

Psychology 101. ;)

Rockgirl 12-05-2018 07:08 AM

Apparently, things were just too peaceful around here for too many days! :D

lovemykidstoo 12-05-2018 07:10 AM

Originally Posted by Rockgirl:
Apparently, things were just too peaceful around here for too many days! :D

Right? lol. I just always have to laugh by "unregistered" posters. Every single time so rude and ignorant.

daycarediva 12-05-2018 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Blaming the mom is dated psychology. NannyDe's reason WHY the child acts out is messed up. I'd NEVER want someone reflecting these INNER qualities watching my child.

ON TO A BETTER UNDERSTANDING....
The child acts out because deep down he/she would rather be with the parent not a DC provider although you maybe great. The child can pick up on the adults (PARENT & DC WORKER) ambivalence about who is responsible for enforcing good behavior SINCE TWO BOSSE'S ARE IN THE ROOM. Some adults don't know. Do I correct my child? Or respect the boundaries of this house/school? And vice versa.

The babysitter don't want to correct the child in front of the parent so they look mean or whatever - so boom. A perfect storm for a child to express his/her upset at being left with a non-real parent and having to put on airs of cooperation all day. Now Mommy's here all is well and I can express how I really feel to be in this setting. No matter how wonderful.
The QUICK CHANGING OF THE GUARDS method is useful - YOU CAN ALSO correct the child's behavior right there (parent AND Babysitter together). When you (the Parent) get home correct it again and have a consequence in place.

I am appalled at the lack of united fronts lots of daycare/babysitter's have. It's like deep down inside they want to believe they are better than the parent can do a better job than the parent - well you can't and you don't.

MAKE SURE I'TS NOT YOU. I HATE some of the DC techniques of IGNORE A CHILD UNLESS THEY WHINE OR GIVE IN WHEN THEY WHINE. I don't do that at home and it's like they are showing mommy - see this is what I DO HERE TO GET WHAT I WANT lol. Do you see? As a play therapist mom - I taught my son to ask for what he want as early as two. All other setting did NOT acknowledge him unliess he WHINED WTHeck. Anyway disgruntled DC workers keep in mind.

Everyone is getting played.

All of my sons worst behavior emerged AFTER he went into DC And I had to find a place that didn't do that fake sing-songy thing when I'm in the room and act differently when I leave. You know how y'all do. Ignoring, texting, chatting, etc. Now I have to deal with passivity in DC workers ugh.

Do the reverse research and STOP commiserating against the parents - but woah you won't do that it's your bread and butter :) it reinforces the fantasy you would be a better parent to that child when you are just the babysitter.

NancyDE "whisperer" ha sounds like she stole some of her "theorizings" from Narcissistic Personality" research which is overdone on the web.

BTW my background is in psychology, play therapy, and I am a mom.


I have a BA in ECE, and am one class shy of my masters. What degrees do you hold or experience do you have SPECIFICALLY within child care?

I have 20+ years as a parent, degrees, certifications, and thousands of hours of continuing education, and have been a provider for over 10 years with the 1-5 age group. I have seen FAR more of this behavior than you have.

We often DO know better than a parent. It's also very easy for us to see things from an outside perspective and apply our wealth of knowledge and experience to every child.

It is either 1 of 2 things- the child holding it together will lash out specifically at the parent. Throwing shoes at them, kicking them, etc. The child displaying authority and showing off his power is the child terrorizing the room and not directing it at the parent. It often extends to kindergarten (as many providers will tell you, their new kindergarteners come back to dc and display the same type of behaviors). Have you ever heard of power play? Young children VERY MUCH SO understand power and the dynamic of it.

Sorry you had a poor dc experience. My children are fully engaged in play at their every awake moment and their growth and development reflects their experience. I don't use a generic sing song voice.

We do not commiserate AGAINST parents, our entire field(especially family child care) is based on forming a good relationship and helping the parent to raise the best possible human being.

The end.

Also, the correct contraction is doesn't, not don't. I had a hard time following your post in many places.

tenderhearts 12-06-2018 09:32 AM

I recently have a 4 yr old dcb who started doing this at pick up after we stopped his naps. He doesn't misbehave for his mom he just goes crazy runs back and forth in the entry way ( he can't go back out in daycare room because of gate) but he will try and be crazy because he knows the other kids are watching, he starts stomping and just being extremely loud and when I ask him to stop he wont listen and he is not like that during the day. So I talk with him every day and IF he does this then he loses privileges the next day and has to take a nap and he doesn't like that. It seems to be working.

Blackcat31 12-06-2018 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by tenderhearts:
I recently have a 4 yr old dcb who started doing this at pick up after we stopped his naps. He doesn't misbehave for his mom he just goes crazy runs back and forth in the entry way ( he can't go back out in daycare room because of gate) but he will try and be crazy because he knows the other kids are watching, he starts stomping and just being extremely loud and when I ask him to stop he wont listen and he is not like that during the day. So I talk with him every day and IF he does this then he loses privileges the next day and has to take a nap and he doesn't like that. It seems to be working.

likethis I use this strategy too! It works well for the kids 3+ as they fully understand yesterday/tomorrow. I also think it's a good way to teach the kids that their behaviors (both good and bad) follows them.

nannyde 12-06-2018 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by Unregistered:

BTW my background is in psychology, play therapy, and I am a mom.

Could you be more specific on what "background" means? What degrees do you hold?

I had to read your post quite a few times to try to figure out what points you were trying to make. Reading it multiple times didn't help. Could you be more specific on what you believe should happen when a child becomes violent, disruptive, refuses to follow house rules and intentionally breaks them when they are otherwise nonviolent, disruptive etc. when the parent is not on site?

Tell us what to do when a child slaps his mother across the face, scratches her neck, and kicks her and then takes off across the room rendering a path of destruction along the way? Tell us what we are to do to protect the other children from WITNESSING his/her violence and behavior that they do not see when the child is in care and the parent is not present.

Remember we can't do one to one care of said child at drop off because we have to tend to the group and prepare for the departure of the remaining children.

Your vast education and knowledge could offer us SPECIFIC tools of words and actions. We actually don't need to understand why the child does it. We just need to know how to fix it.

Unregistered 12-13-2018 05:58 AM

Daycare Mom
 
So I am on the opposite here and have the 3 year old boy that acts this way when I pick him up from preschool. Please help me figure out how to get him to listen to myself and the teacher when it’s time for us to leave. He would rather run around the classroom and down the hallway (it’s a school setting) instead of walking to the door and car with me. HELP!!!

Blackcat31 12-13-2018 06:10 AM

Originally Posted by Unregistered:
So I am on the opposite here and have the 3 year old boy that acts this way when I pick him up from preschool. Please help me figure out how to get him to listen to myself and the teacher when it’s time for us to leave. He would rather run around the classroom and down the hallway (it’s a school setting) instead of walking to the door and car with me. HELP!!!

What types of consequences do you enforce when he does this? Does he fully understand yours (and the teachers) expectations of behavior or is he behaving as the others do? Is pick up at preschool the only time he does not listen to you and runs amok?

daycarediva 12-13-2018 10:37 AM

I would 1. tell him at drop off what you expect to happen at pick up. 2. remind him of that conversation when you arrive 3. have a consequence for NOT listening 4. give him choices

"Do you want to walk down the hallway or hold my hand?"

If all else fails...

"X is not a choice. I see you are having a hard time listening so I will take your hand (even pick you up if need be!) and help you leave nicely."

Unregistered 12-13-2018 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by daycarediva:
I would 1. tell him at drop off what you expect to happen at pick up. 2. remind him of that conversation when you arrive 3. have a consequence for NOT listening 4. give him choices

"Do you want to walk down the hallway or hold my hand?"

If all else fails...

"X is not a choice. I see you are having a hard time listening so I will take your hand (even pick you up if need be!) and help you leave nicely."

I’ve done the choices and have said the part about having to pick him up to help him leave nicely and it ends in him screaming and kicking while I’m carrying him away :( and it’s definitely not just school where he runs amok. He does it at home and other public places too and never wants to listen to me. That leads me to yelling and feeling bad. This all just started a couple of months ago when he turned 3 and I haven’t been consistent 24/7 so I know it’s my fault too. But I’ve finally had enough and want to help him (and myself) know how to act properly.

Mom2Two 12-13-2018 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I’ve done the choices and have said the part about having to pick him up to help him leave nicely and it ends in him screaming and kicking while I’m carrying him away :( and it’s definitely not just school where he runs amok. He does it at home and other public places too and never wants to listen to me. That leads me to yelling and feeling bad. This all just started a couple of months ago when he turned 3 and I haven’t been consistent 24/7 so I know it’s my fault too. But I’ve finally had enough and want to help him (and myself) know how to act properly.

Three years old can be a rough age. DS was an angel when he was two but not so much at three.

About the daycare one, is there anyway you could (humbly, respectfully) ask the provider for help? Meaning, I'm sure that your child is not the only one who does this. Maybe gate off the pick up area?

Personally, when possible, I act as a physical barrier for those who like to sprint off. I joke that they are only going "One Direction" just like boy band.

In the stores, I gave DS a choice between behaving and staying close or riding in the cart. I had once or twice when I had to leave my cart and just take him out to the car, but for the most part it worked.

It sure can get exhausting, though, to constantly have these power struggles with kids!

Blackcat31 12-13-2018 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I’ve done the choices and have said the part about having to pick him up to help him leave nicely and it ends in him screaming and kicking while I’m carrying him away :( and it’s definitely not just school where he runs amok. He does it at home and other public places too and never wants to listen to me. That leads me to yelling and feeling bad. This all just started a couple of months ago when he turned 3 and I haven’t been consistent 24/7 so I know it’s my fault too. But I’ve finally had enough and want to help him (and myself) know how to act properly.

My son was very much like that at 3. :( My daughter was so good about listening and not running off that I just didn't understand why my son didn't "get it" too.....

When we went places both my kids got a reward for listening and behaving.... IF they did. My daughter got a $1 and she'd buy a Little Golden book. My son also had the opportunity to earn a $1 (he would buy a Matchbox car) but usually within 10 minutes of entering a store, he was darting off or touching things etc... and then lose his reward. It got to the point that I don't think he even bothered to try any more.

Then one day I approached the whole "do X and get Y" a different way....Instead of making my son EARN his reward, I gave it to him ahead of time (10 dimes) and explained that every time I had to remind him of the rules or redirect him he had to pay me 1 dime. IF he had any money left at the end of the shopping trip, he could buy something. If he didn't have enough left over, he couldn't bay anything and had to save the remaining dimes for his piggy bank at home.

It worked perfectly! happyface happyface

Basically some kids operate by rewarding and some kids operate by consequence but bottom line was no matter the method of teaching the results were the same; compliance.

So now your role as parent is to figure out your child's currency. Once you have figured that out, you have figured out the answer. Unfortunately it's different for everyone but you can do it.... The great news is those kids that are sometimes the hardest, teach us the most. ;)

Hang in there.... Parenting is tough. :hug:

Unregistered 12-13-2018 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
My son was very much like that at 3. :( My daughter was so good about listening and not running off that I just didn't understand why my son didn't "get it" too.....

When we went places both my kids got a reward for listening and behaving.... IF they did. My daughter got a $1 and she'd buy a Little Golden book. My son also had the opportunity to earn a $1 (he would buy a Matchbox car) but usually within 10 minutes of entering a store, he was darting off or touching things etc... and then lose his reward. It got to the point that I don't think he even bothered to try any more.

Then one day I approached the whole "do X and get Y" a different way....Instead of making my son EARN his reward, I gave it to him ahead of time (10 dimes) and explained that every time I had to remind him of the rules or redirect him he had to pay me 1 dime. IF he had any money left at the end of the shopping trip, he could buy something. If he didn't have enough left over, he couldn't bay anything and had to save the remaining dimes for his piggy bank at home.

It worked perfectly! happyface happyface

Basically some kids operate by rewarding and some kids operate by consequence but bottom line was no matter the method of teaching the results were the same; compliance.

So now your role as parent is to figure out your child's currency. Once you have figured that out, you have figured out the answer. Unfortunately it's different for everyone but you can do it.... The great news is those kids that are sometimes the hardest, teach us the most. ;)

Hang in there.... Parenting is tough. :hug:

Yeah I’ll have to figure out what works for him bc as of right now nothing has. I was one of those kids where my mom just had to look at me a certain way and I would straighten up so I don’t relate to my sons behavior at all. I also have a 6 year old daughter. She’s very strong willed but definitely not defiant like my son. I just want to raise kind,respectful kids.

Unregistered 12-13-2018 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
My son was very much like that at 3. :( My daughter was so good about listening and not running off that I just didn't understand why my son didn't "get it" too.....

When we went places both my kids got a reward for listening and behaving.... IF they did. My daughter got a $1 and she'd buy a Little Golden book. My son also had the opportunity to earn a $1 (he would buy a Matchbox car) but usually within 10 minutes of entering a store, he was darting off or touching things etc... and then lose his reward. It got to the point that I don't think he even bothered to try any more.

Then one day I approached the whole "do X and get Y" a different way....Instead of making my son EARN his reward, I gave it to him ahead of time (10 dimes) and explained that every time I had to remind him of the rules or redirect him he had to pay me 1 dime. IF he had any money left at the end of the shopping trip, he could buy something. If he didn't have enough left over, he couldn't bay anything and had to save the remaining dimes for his piggy bank at home.

It worked perfectly! happyface happyface

Basically some kids operate by rewarding and some kids operate by consequence but bottom line was no matter the method of teaching the results were the same; compliance.

So now your role as parent is to figure out your child's currency. Once you have figured that out, you have figured out the answer. Unfortunately it's different for everyone but you can do it.... The great news is those kids that are sometimes the hardest, teach us the most. ;)

Hang in there.... Parenting is tough. :hug:

Like just now, I picked him up from preschool and my daughter was with me as well. It’s raining very hard and is already dark here at 5:00pm so I stopped them at the door on our way out, got down on their level to let them know that we need to walk right to our doors and get in. My DD did as she was told. My DS ran up and down the sidewalk with me telling him the car was about to leave. I was finally able to get close to him to carry him to the car while telling him that since he couldn’t walk right to the car like he was told, he had to be carried. He cried and kicked. I made sure he understood before we left the building that he was to walk and he said yes ma’am. My heart hurts right now.

Blackcat31 12-13-2018 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Like just now, I picked him up from preschool and my daughter was with me as well. It’s raining very hard and is already dark here at 5:00pm so I stopped them at the door on our way out, got down on their level to let them know that we need to walk right to our doors and get in. My DD did as she was told. My DS ran up and down the sidewalk with me telling him the car was about to leave. I was finally able to get close to him to carry him to the car while telling him that since he couldn’t walk right to the car like he was told, he had to be carried. He cried and kicked. I made sure he understood before we left the building that he was to walk and he said yes ma’am. My heart hurts right now.

:hug: I’m sorry.
Parenting IS hard and no one ever promised it wouldn’t hurt sometimes

But now you know.
He isn’t going to walk to the car unassisted without running off. Hold his hand from now on (grip it tightly... it’s a safety issue ;)) and walk him directly to the car at pick up.

You don’t need to explain in detail or discuss at length. Just firmly and matter of factly tell him he is not allowed to walk unassisted to the car as he does not listen. Rinse and repeat.

When he begins to show responsibility and compliance in other areas of life (non-safety issues) then you’ll be able to expect the same from him as you can of your daughter.

He’s capable.
He simply needs to be taught in an alternate method.

Important thing is you just keep trying until you find the method that works. :)


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