Daycare Shut Down After Infant Death
Updated part .
The child died on Sep 10th. Looks like an autopsy was done. Article from Sep 11th: http://www.mlive.com/news/muskegon/i..._at_in-ho.html This article gives a little bit more info of violations & revoking her license: http://www.grandhaventribune.com/article/647581 The more detailed article has the full report available as a pdf that you can download. Original Post: http://touch.woodtv.com/10000/113362067 The title says it all. |
we do not know what really killed that baby, I feel for all involved here:(
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Such a tragedy :( and scary for any dcp to read. Are they doing an autopsy or would they even know if the med. caused his death? So many things wrong with that picture. :(
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the article didn't say if baby was placed on stomach or back
do you know how the baby was sleeping? also I have given my own babies that same amount of tylenol at this age(per Dr. instructions) I think it had more to do with the mattress, temp of the room, lack of air flow, probably sids..but really sad no matter the cause |
I had a mom come in on Thurs and tell me DCB 6 months had not been sleeping well. She thought either a cold or teething so she brought in a bottle of Tylenol for me to give him to help him sleep. I told her I wasn't comfortable giving him something for the sole purpose of helping him sleep. I read this and am so glad I stood behind my morals and did not give it to him. You never know what reaction a child will have to any medication even after they have had it before.
What I am surprised about is the information cards and missing some and that this particular child's name was on another child's card. So many things could have gone wrong on so many levels because of this alone. She was over group size and ratios. This is so sad and my heart breaks for that mama that will never get to see her LO again. |
So awful.
I'll be interested to see any updates on this if you care to post. It sounds like she was playing fast & loose with ratios including the ages and may have been using sloppy paperwork to cover in case of a surprise visit. |
Originally Posted by Mom2TLE: |
I never give meds either. The liability is just waaay too high. And quite frankly, if the child needs to be medicated, they should be at home.
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Updated in the original post.
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I wonder if the baby was given Tylenol before daycare? I wonder if they tested for Benadryl? I wonder what the normal drop off and pick up time was? I wonder how the provider got by with 15 kids during nap by herself? I wonder if they drug tested the other kids? I wonder what brand of children's Tylenol this was with one quarter teaspoon being a lethal dose? I always wonder why so many of the daycare deaths are found at the end of nap? I wonder why a provider would give Tylenol to a fussy five month old instead if just sending him home? I wonder if the provider and her daughter assistant didn't both dose the child and not know the other already did? I wonder what position the child was in and WHY would it have a blanket in bed? I wonder if they are being truthful about the times. I wonder why a provider would receive a baby at 930 am... dose at noon...not put to bed till 1:30 pm knowing the baby would be picked up in 1.25 hrs.
I hope they tested for Benadryl and I hope they can test for the possibility that the baby already had it Tylenol on board. I hope the day comes in my lifetime that Tylenol and Advil are taken off the shelfs and are by prescription only where EVERY dose has to be accounted for and it is SUPER expensive. This would revolutionize children's community health in child care. Super fishy specially for an experienced provider. |
This is a very tragic situation. But the comments in the articles were ridiculous! Did the provider do wrong? IDK I'm not an expert in laws in that state. But did those wrongdoings have any affect on THIS situation? Not that I can see.
Now the things that didn't help her case but did not CAUSE the infant's death: 1. Being over ratio---I know people who have larger centers with just 2 caregivers and even some parents with more kids. No problems simply due to #'s 2. The dose of acetaminophen for the age of child (let's assume normal weight for age) was not wrong from what I can see 3. Misplacing an info card does not cause the death of a child. I knew every one of my children without looking at a card. I would KNOW if they were allergic to something (unless they were not previously exposed, but that's no different than any other situation) and simply not give it to them. The provider I have for my kids now knows my daughter is allergic to milk, my son allergic to nuts (severely), my other son has Hirschprung's syndrome and sensory disorders, another child has to have her tr-ache tube cleaned and she has to be fed, another child has frequent infections, and her own has brittle bone syndrome, and she still takes on an infant who she's had since age 6 weeks and several other kids. I've seen her with 11 at once. She KNOWS every kid because she takes special needs kids and does not need to look at a card to know them. She's just THAT good at taking proper precautions. 4. The fact that no one checked on baby for 1 hour. When I went to sleep at night, I sure did not get up to check on my children. The thing is? If I was already getting up, Id check. If I thought I had a feeling they needed checked, I checked. There were many times that was over an hour. With daycare, I did it in my house and we were all in one room so I was just there anyway. However, keep in mind, death comes fast and quick so she could have checked 5 minutes before and the child could have seemed fine, only to pass later and nothing anyone could do about it. Life isn't promised to ANYONE, and while it's sad, it's not a cause of death. Should she have checked? Sure. I would have if it were my daycare kids. The things that (possibly) could have caused the baby to die: (Remembering cause of death has not been released): 1. Since no permission card from parent to administer medications, the child could have been unknowingly overdosed (i.e. parent dosed then provider dosed). The parent wouldn't say anything because she'd assume that since nothing was ever agreed upon for administering meds, that meds would not be administered. Whereby the provider should have had the foresight to contact the parent to obtain permission. EVEN WHEN I had permission to administer (whatever meds listed/dose/route/dr. signatures/parent signatures) I always called the parents first. There WERE 2 times I offered to administer tylenol or motrin, and the parent gave me info that vital information they'd done it. OK. That calling gave me the info I needed to make a decisions: USUALLY it was parent came to grab the kids. Since they pre-medicated, obviously it wasn't working and the child(ren) needed to be home. Also, there was ONE time, a parent forgot her medication form and I remembered her child was taking teething tablets. I had no form, but we (at that time) were allowed to obtain verbal permission with instructions. So I could call her, get the dose, route, time, etc and write it down and let her sign when she picked up. However, it seems this provider didn't do EITHER. That could have caused the child's death. 2. An unexplained condition of the child (undiagnosed heart condition, lung condition, blood clot) could have caused the death 3. SIDS (which kind of goes hand in hand with 2) I can't tell if the provider did something to CAUSE the death or if it's just a tragic accident and then she was found doing other things (unrelated to the death, but related to the safety of her daycare)....it's all a bit strange. |
Originally Posted by BABYLUVER: They HAVE to do a complete inspection and document noncompliances. They don't know at the day of death what caused it. They don't know how the smallest of details may put the puzzle together. They also want a declaration of the series of events before there is time to build a story. I think it's phenomenal that they were able to get there so quickly and go the next day. |
Originally Posted by nannyde: For the provider's sake, I would hope there would be a way to determine if the baby had lingering amounts of tylenol in it's system from before daycare. As far as the blanket, in OK it is still legal to put blankets in cribs with babies no matter how young. So that might not be an issue in this state. Not saying it's safe - but it is legal. This is a random tangent my mind went down. I am not saying this happened, It is just where my mind went. I also would find the regular drop-off and pick-up times of interest. 2:15 is an odd time for a baby to leave daycare (IME). If that was way out of the usual pattern, I would be inclined to think that the parent knew something was going on with the child (and probably medicated before drop off). I used to see that pattern a lot in parents who doped and dropped. Kids would come in late, giving meds time to lower fever and pick up early right when the meds should be wearing off. |
Originally Posted by BABYLUVER: The best we can do as daycare providers is to follow all of the rules to the best of our ability so that if the unthinkable happens to a child in our care we can at least have the peace of mind of knowing that we made that effort. |
Originally Posted by blandino: |
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Thank you Nannyde.
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How horrible. Clearly, I was wrong.
What does scare me though, is say the other kids hadn't tested positive for Bendaryl. And the parents & provider both denied giving it to the baby - then it is word against word. What a scary situation to be be in. |
Originally Posted by blandino: |
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons: Benadryl is not to be used birth to two and with dr order only age two to five. |
Originally Posted by nannyde: |
Sorry, I didn't check the details closely enough.
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Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons: |
Originally Posted by blandino: |
Originally Posted by nannyde: I've heard for colds and allergies but never for imms.....wonder what that line of thinking is? Maybe an anti-inflammatory? But wouldn't ibuprofen work better for that? |
Originally Posted by Blackcat31: |
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons: |
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons: ....guess you learn something new every day. :) |
Originally Posted by blandino: What can I say.. This is Mississippi lol |
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons: It might be a Mississippi thing but it sounds as though it's a canine thing too! :p |
Originally Posted by Blackcat31: |
Why give the kids in your care benedryl? So they sleep better?? I would never give benedryl to a baby! I can't even give it my ds(27 mos) yet because he doesn't weigh enough. How terrible.:(
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I was wondering something. How come the parent wasn't investigated. Think about it, the baby gets dropped off already fussy and cranky, there had to be some sort of convo between the parent and the provider. Maybe the parent was at the breaking point and shook the baby or over medicated the baby before hand, but how would you prove it.
yes, the provider had alot of flaws, but I think that maybe something happened prior the child being dropped off and now the provider is left trying to make sense of it all. |
Originally Posted by countrymom: |
Originally Posted by countrymom: also if Benadryl stays in hair follicles, could it be that some how accumulates in the body and eventually just has too much? and those kids tested positive for Benadryl but who's to say when and where they got it |
I have a question!!! I really don't understand why a provider would give a child medicine when there's no form and communication from the parent.
But why benyadryl?? I don't get it! |
Originally Posted by Blackcat31: Same goes for children. Giving them Benadryl beforehand could almost completely defeat the purpose of giving the shots at all. I think it's entirely overused and abused by many people on a daily basis. I'd go so far as to agree with Nan that they, along with childrens anti-inflammitories, should become monitored prescrption medications just like cold remedies with pseudoepedrine in them are. People today are a combination of overly paranoid (using them for everything), overly confident (thinking they are doctors capable of self diagnosis and treatment) or are just plain stupid, not taking the time to research and administer them properly. Living beings are dying everyday. It's a freaking epidemic. It is NOT well enough studied for use as a sedative in ANY circumstance, doc advised or not. |
Originally Posted by Willow: I can't say I'd be willing to give it my dog or cat. I don't dispense meds here in care but I will allow a parent to give their child something for pain, (for teething etc) PROVIDED they let me know before dropping off and they fill out a form stating why they gave it, when they gave it and who dispensed it. Had a DCM yesterday bring her (newly turned) 3 yr old in and ask for the med log. I asked why and she said she gave her Benedryl because she seemed a little stuff and had a slight cough. I told her Benedryl is NOT for kids under 6. Mom says "Well, I know that. That's why I only gave "M" half a dose." Worst part is DCM is in nursing school for her RN.... she should KNOW better than to simply assume cutting a dose in half is appropriate. I sent DCM and DCK home. I am NOT willing to care for a child given a dose of anything NOT for them. DCM tried to tell me Dr said it was ok. When I asked when and to bring proof,...DCM says "Well.... a while ago my nephew's Dr said to do that and he is the same age." :eek: I was NOT a happy camper and told DCM I was going to document this conversation and that in the future if I became aware of this, I would report her. |
Originally Posted by Blackcat31: See now a situation like that i could totally see a provider getting nailed with if something happened to the child......just yikes!!! |
I doubt everyone (doctors) are caught up just yet, but latest research has found no benefit and possible overdosing with the Tylenol before shots, and it is being discontinued. Well, UNrecommended. :rolleyes:
Never heard of Benedryl for shots though..odd. |
Originally Posted by LaLa1923: |
Originally Posted by Scout: One of my DCBs was stung by 20-25 wasps recently (at home, not here) and for a day or two after he came back, he had regular Benedryl. I have it here because the doc wants him to have an immediate dose for the remainder of the year if he is stung by even one insect. I also have a little girl that will occasionally, for some unknown (yet) reason, suddenly develop hives. We keep some here to dose her immediately if needed. We have used it once in the last year. |
Originally Posted by nannyde: We have a dcb5 here whose mom gives him melatonin (without dr's permission, since she doesn't want to look like a "bad mom" for asking!) to try to get him to go to sleep. She stays in his room and continuously tells him "go to sleep, go to sleep" and wonders why he wont. All the while he is surrounded with a million toys, primary colors everywhere, computer, tv, ipad, video games etc in his bed room. We have another who often gives dcb4 benydrl because he is cranky and she knows he needs to go to bed early but wont. Both boys sleep just fine for us. |
Originally Posted by Angelsj: |
Originally Posted by JoseyJo: |
Originally Posted by Unregistered: Although use of melatonin for children hasn't been studied near enough, no credible studies have come to any of the conclusions you claim. It has been safely used for decades and is non habit forming. Because of that it can safely be used for up to two years. It does not impede or restrict the body's ability to form natural melatonin and no credible study has ever concluded it is dangerous. |
Benadryl can be given to children under the age of 6 with a dr's recommendation. My children have had hives and allergic reaction and needed Benadryl. One is 7, almost 8, and has to have Benadryl & an Epi-PenJr with us at all times due to his bee sting allergy. If he was in childcare I would need to have those with him, just like at school and with the proper paperwork.
Also, the whole Tylenol/Motrin before and even after shots has been ended as a practice. They're finding the immunizations aren't as effective when the body's reaction is minimized and/or altered. If baby develops a **high** fever you can treat that, but they don't recommend just giving it as precaution anymore for discomfort or pain. |
Originally Posted by nannyde: |
Originally Posted by LaLa1923: If you take melatonin in the middle of the day while the sun is shining and you're doing yard work it'll have zero effect. It only works if/when the body is needing sleep and if/when the conditions are right for sleep (dark, your body is quiet and relaxed, you've been awake for a certain period of time etc.). It can help reset your circadian rhythm, but doesn't have the ability to "drug" your brain. Even then it doesn't keep you asleep, whereas the active ingredient in Benadryl is actually (at times and certain dosages) a debilitating sedative. While you can easily overdose on Benadryl's active ingredient, it's impossible to do so with melatonin (where the worst that would happen is you'd have a longer more active REM cycle that would simply result in a few vivid dreams at worst). Thats exactly why melatonin has been deemed so safe. |
Originally Posted by Angelsj: |
Originally Posted by TwinKristi: |
Originally Posted by Unregistered: |
Originally Posted by Angelsj: |
My dd has taken melatonin by dr order since 13 yo for racing thoughts. I totally understand if the dr had prescribed it to him, but he didn't, she didn't even ask a dr, AND she is not giving it to him correctly.
I have talked to her about it, every time she mentions it. I have told her she shouldn't give him anything herbal, OT, RX without seeing a dr. I have also explained to her how it works and that it is not a "knock out" drug. I really irks me! I have seen both of these children well-rested a few times and they are totally different kids. Makes me sad for them :( |
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons: My DS suffered from insomnia and other sleep issues and my pediatrician would NOT recommend melatonin stating NO long term studies have been done and unless ALL other things fail. We found a solution with regular routine, soothing sounds and diet adjustments. :) From Livestrong.com According to the National Institutes of Health, melatonin appears to be an effective treatment for sleep disturbances in children with developmental and neurobehavioral disorders, such as autism, anxiety disorder, mental retardation, Asperger's syndrome and attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder. Melatonin can help these children fall asleep faster and stay asleep longer. Some parents also use melatonin as a treatment for insomnia in children with normal development, but no studies have evaluated this use. Safety Considerations The University of Maryland Medical Center states that melatonin can be a safe supplement for children when it used in low doses, under the guidance of a qualified practitioner. However, the NIH considers the product to be inappropriate for use in most toddlers. The benefits associated with melatonin are only worth the risks when a toddler's sleep disturbances are significantly disruptive to his health or development, and when drug-free treatment options have failed. Possible Risks: Melatonin can trigger several possible side effects in toddlers. The UMMC states that high doses, exceeding 1 to 5 milligrams, can cause seizures in children under 15 years of age. According to the NIH, melatonin can alter the production of reproductive hormones, particularly in adolescents. No large-scale, well-designed studies have investigated the effects of melatonin supplements on a toddler's developing endocrine system. The NIH reports a link between melatonin supplements and uncomfortable side effects such as headache, stomach cramps and mood disturbances. Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/27...#ixzz2htjQXrTy |
Originally Posted by Blackcat31: But I'd be willing to bet the study the NIH was referencing was the one where the dosage was 50mg+. In that one, yes, people experienced upset tummies and headaches......but the same could be said for too many brussel sprouts you know? Eat to much of anything it's going to cause you trouble, heck, drink too much WATER it can cause the same and even KILL you. But with the recommended dose being .5-3mg people rarely (never?) experience such side effects. It's far lower than our own bodies produce so it wouldn't make sense. Only in these studies where they've literally had people consume entire bottles of the pills, has there been an issue. Imho, thats not a study, just bunk researchers trying to peg a very safe supplement dangerous so pharmaceutical companies can get their grubbies in on "regulating" it more intensely (ie....be able to charge the general public more for it). |
Originally Posted by Willow: Consumers blindly follow and rarely do their own research. :( Originally Posted by Willow: Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/27...#ixzz2htvJyukl |
Originally Posted by Blackcat31: I do think way too many parents shoot for the quick fix and most times the .3 isnt even necessary....so at least maybe some of those warnings, regardless of where or why they originated, will give parents reason to at least reconsider the even safer alternatives you mentioned like tweaking diet, exercise and routine. |
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons: |
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