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  #1  
Old 02-03-2011, 10:10 AM
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Default Lingering DCD

I have a family with 3 kids. The oldest has a different dad then the younger two. This dad drops off half of the time but the child is completely different. He is 4 years old and loves it here but when his real dad drops off he is super clingy to him and cries and says he doesn't want to stay. The dad completely feeds into it and tickles him and sticks around. Today after 15 minutes of trying to unhinge him from his the dad walked out the door, then peeked in the window. Saw that dcb was still looking and came back in. UGH! Seriously? Another 15 minutes went by and the exact same thing happened. I don't want to actually tell him to leave because you are making it hard on dcb and me but he is! I just keep telling him every time he drops off that he's fine and plays as normal as soon as he leaves. This happens everytime he drops off! When the step dad or his mom drops off he comes right in and barely even says bye to them. The dad also will call him names like poopy-head or stinky-butt that dcb gets in trouble if he says here. How would you handle this?
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  #2  
Old 02-03-2011, 10:25 AM
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Time for the "Buh Bye Outside" program.
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  #3  
Old 02-03-2011, 10:28 AM
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Time for the "Buh Bye Outside" program.
Okay.....I have got to be a cheering section with this advice because I am currently doing the "Buh Bye Outside" program with one of my dcm's who had very similar issues and it is working fantastically!!!!!!!!!!!!! Kid is better behaved all day and I no longer dread the drop off or pickup anymore!!
Try it yourself...it REALLY does work!!!! Thanks Nan!
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Old 02-03-2011, 10:33 AM
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Okay.....I have got to be a cheering section with this advice because I am currently doing the "Buh Bye Outside" program with one of my dcm's who had very similar issues and it is working fantastically!!!!!!!!!!!!! Kid is better behaved all day and I no longer dread the drop off or pickup anymore!!
Try it yourself...it REALLY does work!!!! Thanks Nan!
Oh yes it does.
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Old 02-03-2011, 10:33 AM
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I sent this to a DCD who did the same thing. I then talked to him about it, how it also affects the other kids as well, becuase all of the kids act crazy when someone else is in the house. I tell them that I don't mind a visit every now and then, but you have to realize the meesage that you are sending to the child by sticking around. Which is that you are giving him false hope that you are staying with him by sticking around that long. They need to develop a routine and stick to it. No more than 5 minutes..


It is normal for some children to have difficulty separating from parents in the morning or not wanting to leave when it's time to go home. Please be very brief (no more than 5 minutes is sufficient) during these transition times. The longer you prolong the departure the harder it gets, and provider will need to focus on the other children in care. A smile, cheerful good-bye kiss, and a reassuring word that you will be back are all that is needed in the morning. In years of experience, children are nearly always quick to get involved in play or activities as soon as parents are gone. This is also a time of testing when two different authority figures are present (the parent and the provider). All the children will test to see if the rules still apply. During arrivals and departures, parents must back the rules of the daycare (see House Rules). If you do not, provider will remind the child that their behavior is inappropriate and take action to correct, if needed. So please be in control of your child during drop off and pick up times. Please help show your child that you respect the rules of the daycare, as well as the provider by reminding them that the rules still apply whether you are here or not.
At drop off, your child is expected to arrive clean, fully clothed and fed (unless arriving before meal time) do not leave until you have signed your child in, your child’s shoes have been removed and you have updated provider on any pertinent information – how your child slept, if there are any concerns or updates, and etc.
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Old 02-03-2011, 11:04 AM
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So.... how do I bring up the buhbye strategy?
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Old 02-03-2011, 11:10 AM
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Time for the "Buh Bye Outside" program.
Ok, now what is this?
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  #8  
Old 02-03-2011, 11:15 AM
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So.... how do I bring up the buhbye strategy?
I would send the letter first as an icebreaker if you are not comfortable talking to him. Then after you gave it to him discuss it.
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Old 02-03-2011, 11:33 AM
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Ok, now what is this?
It's where the parent never enters your daycare, they say goodbye outside and push little junior inside. Same with pick up - dcp says goodbye at the door and pushes little junior out to his waiting parents. This way there is no lingering, no struggle to see who's actually in charge, no dck trying to play both parent and provider, etc.
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  #10  
Old 02-03-2011, 11:41 AM
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http://daycare.com/forum/showthread....changing+guard

I call the dynamic of bad behavior at drop off and pick up "Changing of the Guard" behavior. It is seen primarily in children who are in charge of the relationship with their parents. It is seen in children who are more powerful than their parents and parents who want their child to be powerful/happy/special/ more than they want the child to have good public and interpersonal relationship. The parent does not want the child to cry so outbursts of obviously inappropriate behavior are acceptable to the parent as long as the child does them without crying and is happy. The harshest discipline used for these kids is "corporal coddling".

Changing of the guard behavior at drop off is when the child goes from being in power/control while in the care of his parents to the provider being in power/control while in the care of the provider. The child cries or acts out because they do not want to relinquish their control. They don't want the control to go to the provider so they delay the transfer of power by acting out.

They also want the provider to see that they are in control because arrivals and departures are the only opportunity the child has to make it clear to the provider that they are in control. As soon as the door closes behind the parent the child looses that really powerful position as their power supply has just backed up out the driveway.

At pick ups again the child realizes that once their power supply (parents) have arrived that they are back into power. They see that the parent again gives them the kingdom and you the provider aren't stopping them from taking over. They are used to the provider being the leader ALL day long so they KNOW something is terribly wrong when you all of a sudden stop leading.

All the kid sees is two adults who are not making him stop and demanding he behave properly in public. He has no choice to become the leader because the adults around him are not doing it. He loves to be the leader but unfortunately is ill equipped for the job as he is just a child. Children should NEVER lead adults. Children should NEVER lead themselves or other children. They are terribly inadaquate leaders. When they are allowed the job of leader the entire time they are in that role everything falls apart. Everyone is unhappy and nothing works out well.

The parent is often misbehaving at the drop off and pick up too. The parent knows when their child is behaving badly in public. They know how the adults around them looks when their child is acting up. They can feel the negative energy and exhasted energy from the adults around their child's public display of bad behavior. THEY KNOW THE PROVIDER HATES IT but they don't take over. They don't put a stop to it.

The parents often feel the provider works FOR them and because they are paying the provider that the provider should just have to DEAL with this witnessing of poor behavior. The parent doesn't care if it upsets you, your other day care kids, your kids. They are paying you and you better get to toleration quick or they will scoot on out your business.

The parent may have some other motivations for allowing it too. They may WANT the child to hang out at the day care before they go to work and after they are off of work because they are trying to get the kid off of their clock for as long as possible. There are a certain segment of parent population who allow misbehavior at drop off and pick up as a STALL technique to keep the child at day care longer. These are the ones that allow a wide breadth of time for their kid to be in care when they really only need nine hours. These parents will often pick providers with open hours so the parent can use time BEFORE work and AFTER work to be at the providers house with the kid because they don't want to be home with the kid by themselves any longer than they have to.



The provider is in a bad situation too. She doesn't like the changing of the guard behavior. She wants the child to behave as he does when SHE is leading him. She feels she can't discipline kids in front of their parent. She knows she wouldn't want someone disciplining HER kids in front of her so she sits back praying to Jesus that the parent put the kabosh on this and take over.

She also knows that it's a pretty touchy deal to start disciplining the kid especially at pick up time. She could offend the parent and the parent could pull the kid. She really really WANTS the kid to LEAVE so she can get on with her own family so she doesn't want to do ANYTHING to get prolong it.

So now you have the perfect storm. The child is being bombarded with badly behaving adults ... adults who are not being true to their feelings... adults who will not do WHATEVER it takes to show the child that the child can NEVER lead in their presence....

and a child who is BEGGING for calm stable minute to minute leadership

I don't have this dynamic in my day care because I do not EVER allow a child to lead in my home. I don't allow them to lead me or lead their parents. From the second the kid hits the inside of my house they are being led by ME. I don't leave the leadership up to the parents. I'm glad when I have ones that DO lead but I'm the leadingest leader no matter what.

IF a child is acting up at arrivals and departures despite my insistence that I be the leader then I institute the "Buh Bye Outside" program. This is where the parent says good bye to the child outside my door at drop off and does NOT come into the house. At pick up "I" say good bye to the child inside the house and send them out the door and the parent does NOT come in the house.

Both arrival and departure the child does not see the parent and I together. The parent brings the child to my door in the morning and says their goodbyes on my front step. They have as long as they want to say goodbye. They can spend an hour there if that's what they need. Once the parent knocks on my door then that is the signal that they are COMPLETELY DONE saying goodbye.

I open the door and just take the child over my threshold and shut the door very quickly. That makes the transition VERY short for the kid. This allows the parent to be the only adult tolerating the child's bad behavior. This takes away the audience for the child and parents bad behavior. This takes away the element of "you have to put up with my prince/princesses behavior because I am the boss of you and I pay you".

At departure the parent is to call me within five minutes of the arrival and we do the same thing in reverse. As soon as the parent arrives on my doorstep I open it up and assist the kid back over the threshold and quickly shut my door.

Rinse and repeat.

It usually takes about three days of the buh bye outside program to get both the parent and child to behave. By the third day the parent is bored out of their mind standing outside with their kid. The kid realizes that there isn't an audience for his behavior and the message that ANY time he is around the provider the provider is in charge is not broken or challenged.

I can always tell when we are ready to start integrating them back into the house by the decrease in the kids fit. I watch them thru the window. When the kid just comes and stands at my doorway looking at the door then I know it's time to start letting them EASE their way back into saying goodbye inside the house.

I start by allowing it at drop off but if the child causes any chaos they go back to saying good bye outside immediately. If drop off goes well for a few days then we try the inside departure. The slightest hint that the kid is going to act up and we go back to just donig the departure outside.

It's very important for the provider to take charge of the entire time the child is in your home. If you allow the parents to be the leader you will very often find that they won't do it. There are a LOT of parents who feel that their child should lead because they are special and they are theirs. It is becoming increasingly difficult to find parents who believe that they should always lead and that it is an embarrasment and a shame for their child to behave poorly around the day care.

It is an embarrasment and a shame that kids behave badly in public. We are their public. The only way to get the whole cycle to stop in my experience is to completely take charge of the entire thing. I don't allow ANY misbehavior when they are in my home. I don't hesitate in ANY way to discipline the children when they are under my roof. I don't give a flip whether their parents are here or not. The children NEVER see my behavior change when their parents arrive. I don't act differently to the child when the parent is here. I'm just as strict with my expectations whether the parent is there or not.

I don't allow parents to misbehave in my house. If they do not seize control of their kid and despite my interjections the kids are still acting up then they are not allowed the PRIVLEDGE of doing arrivals and departures inside my home. Once the parent and child looses the privledge of arrivals and departures inside they very quickly get bored of the rediculous behavior and start behaviing... BOTH the parent and the child start behaving.

Bottom line is stop allowing the kid and the parent to misbehave on your properly. Your house your rulses for EVERYBODY. Be the leader the child and parent need you to be. Be the leader every second of the time you have them in your home.

When you lead they will follow and peace will be yours.
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  #11  
Old 02-03-2011, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
http://daycare.com/forum/showthread....changing+guard

I call the dynamic of bad behavior at drop off and pick up "Changing of the Guard" behavior. It is seen primarily in children who are in charge of the relationship with their parents. It is seen in children who are more powerful than their parents and parents who want their child to be powerful/happy/special/ more than they want the child to have good public and interpersonal relationship. The parent does not want the child to cry so outbursts of obviously inappropriate behavior are acceptable to the parent as long as the child does them without crying and is happy. The harshest discipline used for these kids is "corporal coddling".

Changing of the guard behavior at drop off is when the child goes from being in power/control while in the care of his parents to the provider being in power/control while in the care of the provider. The child cries or acts out because they do not want to relinquish their control. They don't want the control to go to the provider so they delay the transfer of power by acting out.

They also want the provider to see that they are in control because arrivals and departures are the only opportunity the child has to make it clear to the provider that they are in control. As soon as the door closes behind the parent the child looses that really powerful position as their power supply has just backed up out the driveway.

At pick ups again the child realizes that once their power supply (parents) have arrived that they are back into power. They see that the parent again gives them the kingdom and you the provider aren't stopping them from taking over. They are used to the provider being the leader ALL day long so they KNOW something is terribly wrong when you all of a sudden stop leading.

All the kid sees is two adults who are not making him stop and demanding he behave properly in public. He has no choice to become the leader because the adults around him are not doing it. He loves to be the leader but unfortunately is ill equipped for the job as he is just a child. Children should NEVER lead adults. Children should NEVER lead themselves or other children. They are terribly inadaquate leaders. When they are allowed the job of leader the entire time they are in that role everything falls apart. Everyone is unhappy and nothing works out well.

The parent is often misbehaving at the drop off and pick up too. The parent knows when their child is behaving badly in public. They know how the adults around them looks when their child is acting up. They can feel the negative energy and exhasted energy from the adults around their child's public display of bad behavior. THEY KNOW THE PROVIDER HATES IT but they don't take over. They don't put a stop to it.

The parents often feel the provider works FOR them and because they are paying the provider that the provider should just have to DEAL with this witnessing of poor behavior. The parent doesn't care if it upsets you, your other day care kids, your kids. They are paying you and you better get to toleration quick or they will scoot on out your business.

The parent may have some other motivations for allowing it too. They may WANT the child to hang out at the day care before they go to work and after they are off of work because they are trying to get the kid off of their clock for as long as possible. There are a certain segment of parent population who allow misbehavior at drop off and pick up as a STALL technique to keep the child at day care longer. These are the ones that allow a wide breadth of time for their kid to be in care when they really only need nine hours. These parents will often pick providers with open hours so the parent can use time BEFORE work and AFTER work to be at the providers house with the kid because they don't want to be home with the kid by themselves any longer than they have to.



The provider is in a bad situation too. She doesn't like the changing of the guard behavior. She wants the child to behave as he does when SHE is leading him. She feels she can't discipline kids in front of their parent. She knows she wouldn't want someone disciplining HER kids in front of her so she sits back praying to Jesus that the parent put the kabosh on this and take over.

She also knows that it's a pretty touchy deal to start disciplining the kid especially at pick up time. She could offend the parent and the parent could pull the kid. She really really WANTS the kid to LEAVE so she can get on with her own family so she doesn't want to do ANYTHING to get prolong it.

So now you have the perfect storm. The child is being bombarded with badly behaving adults ... adults who are not being true to their feelings... adults who will not do WHATEVER it takes to show the child that the child can NEVER lead in their presence....

and a child who is BEGGING for calm stable minute to minute leadership

I don't have this dynamic in my day care because I do not EVER allow a child to lead in my home. I don't allow them to lead me or lead their parents. From the second the kid hits the inside of my house they are being led by ME. I don't leave the leadership up to the parents. I'm glad when I have ones that DO lead but I'm the leadingest leader no matter what.

IF a child is acting up at arrivals and departures despite my insistence that I be the leader then I institute the "Buh Bye Outside" program. This is where the parent says good bye to the child outside my door at drop off and does NOT come into the house. At pick up "I" say good bye to the child inside the house and send them out the door and the parent does NOT come in the house.

Both arrival and departure the child does not see the parent and I together. The parent brings the child to my door in the morning and says their goodbyes on my front step. They have as long as they want to say goodbye. They can spend an hour there if that's what they need. Once the parent knocks on my door then that is the signal that they are COMPLETELY DONE saying goodbye.

I open the door and just take the child over my threshold and shut the door very quickly. That makes the transition VERY short for the kid. This allows the parent to be the only adult tolerating the child's bad behavior. This takes away the audience for the child and parents bad behavior. This takes away the element of "you have to put up with my prince/princesses behavior because I am the boss of you and I pay you".

At departure the parent is to call me within five minutes of the arrival and we do the same thing in reverse. As soon as the parent arrives on my doorstep I open it up and assist the kid back over the threshold and quickly shut my door.

Rinse and repeat.

It usually takes about three days of the buh bye outside program to get both the parent and child to behave. By the third day the parent is bored out of their mind standing outside with their kid. The kid realizes that there isn't an audience for his behavior and the message that ANY time he is around the provider the provider is in charge is not broken or challenged.

I can always tell when we are ready to start integrating them back into the house by the decrease in the kids fit. I watch them thru the window. When the kid just comes and stands at my doorway looking at the door then I know it's time to start letting them EASE their way back into saying goodbye inside the house.

I start by allowing it at drop off but if the child causes any chaos they go back to saying good bye outside immediately. If drop off goes well for a few days then we try the inside departure. The slightest hint that the kid is going to act up and we go back to just donig the departure outside.

It's very important for the provider to take charge of the entire time the child is in your home. If you allow the parents to be the leader you will very often find that they won't do it. There are a LOT of parents who feel that their child should lead because they are special and they are theirs. It is becoming increasingly difficult to find parents who believe that they should always lead and that it is an embarrasment and a shame for their child to behave poorly around the day care.

It is an embarrasment and a shame that kids behave badly in public. We are their public. The only way to get the whole cycle to stop in my experience is to completely take charge of the entire thing. I don't allow ANY misbehavior when they are in my home. I don't hesitate in ANY way to discipline the children when they are under my roof. I don't give a flip whether their parents are here or not. The children NEVER see my behavior change when their parents arrive. I don't act differently to the child when the parent is here. I'm just as strict with my expectations whether the parent is there or not.

I don't allow parents to misbehave in my house. If they do not seize control of their kid and despite my interjections the kids are still acting up then they are not allowed the PRIVLEDGE of doing arrivals and departures inside my home. Once the parent and child looses the privledge of arrivals and departures inside they very quickly get bored of the rediculous behavior and start behaviing... BOTH the parent and the child start behaving.

Bottom line is stop allowing the kid and the parent to misbehave on your properly. Your house your rulses for EVERYBODY. Be the leader the child and parent need you to be. Be the leader every second of the time you have them in your home.

When you lead they will follow and peace will be yours.
wow where did you gain this knowledge from? Book, experience, school? That was some wonderful stuff you wrote..
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  #12  
Old 02-03-2011, 12:08 PM
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wow where did you gain this knowledge from? Book, experience, school? That was some wonderful stuff you wrote..
Been doing this for a bit.
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Old 02-03-2011, 12:13 PM
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Been doing this for a bit.
I feel like I met the daycare godess.... lol on my knees taking a bow....lol
I was just trying to explain this to one of the parents here whos kids turns into the little devil when she arrives and he breaks all of my rules and household items....gggeeerrrr..

After reading this, I think I might be able to do a better job at telling DCM whats up!!

Thanks nannde... Im call you rescue nanny 911...lol
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Old 02-03-2011, 03:42 PM
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Been doing this for a bit.

you should write a book. i would buy 10.

my favorite so far is "circling the post". you crack me up.
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Old 02-03-2011, 04:05 PM
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Nannyde do you mind if I ask how you approach the parents with this and impliment it?? What do you say to them? I know that i have some parents i would love to do this with, however, I know it would be more of an issue when i tell them they cant come inside.....

how do you make it work??
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Old 02-03-2011, 04:39 PM
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Nannyde do you mind if I ask how you approach the parents with this and impliment it?? What do you say to them? I know that i have some parents i would love to do this with, however, I know it would be more of an issue when i tell them they cant come inside.....

how do you make it work??
I tell them I don't like the fussing at the door. The kid doesn't fuss when you leave so leave him at the door.

My day care parents know me and know I don't do drama with the kids. I'm strict and expect them to behave. If they don't behave I have to deal with it.

I can only think of one time in the last five years I have had to do it. Lasted three days. The parents get really bored with having more "quality" time with their kid at my front door so they buckle up and put a stop to the behavior.

I'm willing to loose the kid over it. If it has to come to that it has to come to that. Some times you have to be strict with the parents. It's uncomfortable but it's SO worth it.
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Old 02-03-2011, 04:42 PM
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you should write a book. i would buy 10.

my favorite so far is "circling the post". you crack me up.
Ditto!!!

I'd buy books from a couple of other posters on here too .
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Old 02-03-2011, 04:43 PM
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I feel like I met the daycare godess.... lol on my knees taking a bow....lol
Thanks nannde... Im call you rescue nanny 911...lol
She is....

I have spent hours and hours reading her posts. She is why I joined here instead of just trolling through.
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Old 02-03-2011, 05:01 PM
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She is....

I have spent hours and hours reading her posts. She is why I joined here instead of just trolling through.
I just bought the domain name: daycarewhisperer.com

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

It will make it easier for people like you to stalk me.
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Old 02-03-2011, 05:54 PM
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I just bought the domain name: daycarewhisperer.com

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

It will make it easier for people like you to stalk me.


Whooohooo!!!
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  #21  
Old 02-03-2011, 09:31 PM
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okay, i didn't read all of the posts - i saw nannyde mention the "bye bye at the door" philosophy which i didn't read either bc i've seen it before. i normally agree with the whole theory, but i think with this kid being the only kid who has the issue and also being the only one who doesn't have his dad around all the time - i think it's probably a little deeper than a "control issue" and he probably genuinely misses his dad since he is the non-custodial parent.

that doesn't mean you should let it fly because of that. i think the "bye bye program" could still work, but i might approach the dad about it in private and with a little more sensitivity than i would with a kid who was doing it with the mom/dad they lived with on a daily basis. i'm sure it's harder for a child and a parent to say their goodbyes when they know they won't see them later that afternoon or maybe not for another week or whatever the case may be. if you can talk to the dad and let him know you understand the dynamic but get him to say his goodbyes before he approaches your home the kid will adjust.

basically, i agree with nannyde, but i think the dynamic is different being that it's a non-custodial parent issue and should be addressed as such.
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Old 02-04-2011, 02:04 AM
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i love nannyde's approach, but agree with qualiT too. i was going to mention the same thing. i have one dcb who acts differently depending on who drops off / picks up. with mom, he's a hot mess. with step dad, its an easy transition. with dad, he knows to not even play that, he gets his own shoes and coat on, and waits by the door. another family, both brother and sister who are older SA and KNOW better, become devils when mom shows up. when dad is here, they know better. so kids know how to play the game. i bet in the OP's case, this little boy is probably not seeing his daddy alot, and having a hard time with all the transitions. i would show empathy, but i still would'nt tolerate it. maybe have a talk with dad, and set ground rules. like one hug and a kiss, a high five, whatever, and then he LEAVES. no coming back in (lock the door behind him) tell him if he's really worried, he can call after he pulls out of the driveway.
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Old 02-04-2011, 02:43 AM
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okay, i didn't read all of the posts - i saw nannyde mention the "bye bye at the door" philosophy which i didn't read either bc i've seen it before. i normally agree with the whole theory, but i think with this kid being the only kid who has the issue and also being the only one who doesn't have his dad around all the time - i think it's probably a little deeper than a "control issue" and he probably genuinely misses his dad since he is the non-custodial parent.

that doesn't mean you should let it fly because of that. i think the "bye bye program" could still work, but i might approach the dad about it in private and with a little more sensitivity than i would with a kid who was doing it with the mom/dad they lived with on a daily basis. i'm sure it's harder for a child and a parent to say their goodbyes when they know they won't see them later that afternoon or maybe not for another week or whatever the case may be. if you can talk to the dad and let him know you understand the dynamic but get him to say his goodbyes before he approaches your home the kid will adjust.

basically, i agree with nannyde, but i think the dynamic is different being that it's a non-custodial parent issue and should be addressed as such.
I don't know.

For one the Dad obviously HAD thirty extra minutes this morning to one to one his kid, be with him, bond... give him lovin. Why couldn't they have done that at home? Why couldn't he have kept little guy home for thirty minutes and just give him undivided loving fatherly attention?

The drop off at day care shouldn't be a bonding experience between parent and child. Once you take your kid out in public and there is a transfer of who is caring for the child the idea is to make that transfer go smoothly for EVERYBODY... not just the kid and the Dad. It's the Dad's responsibility to make sure the kid is on his best behavior during these times. He wasn't doing this and was actually purposefully escalating the child by playing "poopy head" games ... leaving.. and returning to gear him back up.

I think there is a contingent of parents who really LIKE the drama at the door. They want to have that activity with the kid AROUND another adult. There's something inside of them that likes "showing off" their "I love me and mines the most bestest ever in the history of parenthood".

The Dad is most likely not dense in the head. After a few minutes it was most likely painfully clear that the provider didn't like the behavior in her house but he felt powerful and bold enough to let it go on and on and on... leave... then restart and go on and on and on.

THAT is a badly behaved adult. We shouldn't have to be any part of that just because they are a "parent" and it's "my child". If they are going to do the "me and mines" then they need to do it in PRIVATE where it REALLY counts.

Love up your kid and give your kid THAT kind of attention when you and your family are with them. Don't do it at the expense of a house full of people in public. It's rude.

If he's lacking in time with his kid. If he is having bad feelings about how much he is really raising his kid... then work with the other parent and make some changes. Don't involve a house full of people that have NOTHING to do with it by putting on a dog and pony show of badly behaving kid and adult at the door while she is trying to operate her business.
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Old 02-04-2011, 06:37 AM
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Nan, I don't always agree with you but you are absolutely correct about this. I work with Kindergarten kids, and the first week of school morning drop off is crazy, for this very reason. Only these kids are here as a legal requirement, and some parents have sheltered them to lead the household for the child's entire life only to unravel at that very moment.
I've done similar, I give them one goodbye of their choice at the door- blow a kiss, a hug, a special whatever, and once they come in they do it, and leave. I call it "Cutting bait". I put my hand on the child's shoulder, turn them around, and walk them into the room and introduce them to the other kids. I comepletely ignore the parent at that point. When the parent insists on lingering, I look back at them and tell them "We're good, see you later!" and block the visual path between parent and kid. The kicker is this: if the child is crying or trying to get to the lingering parent, I ruin the special bonding by talking to the parent about it as the child has their breakdown. I tell them that I will happily email a picture of the kid in a few minutes to set them at ease, but if they don't leave, they will have to take the child home and try again tomorrow. Since we've already discussed it beforehand, they know I'm serious and am not going to put up with it. I've never had the same parent pull it again after I threatened to turn them away. In fact, once they leave, and they get that picture sent to them of the kid smiling or playing, they are ALL ABOUT dropping off quickly. I have had more parents over the years tell me once their child is grown into the upper grades, that letting them go to me that first day was the hardest thing to do but they felt so at ease with leaving their precious snowflake once they got that picture. It seems to work.
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Old 02-04-2011, 12:37 PM
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nannyde - I agree with you completely, in fact I copied it to memorize.

missnikki - I agree with you too

In the interview, in my sweetest voice, I tell parents:

When the time comes and their child starts to whine or act out when you are dropping them off, I will say to you in my special voice "Good bye mom" and that is your cue to get out of my house. You are welcome to linger outside for as long as you like, but if you peek around and your child sees you, they are going to work with you.

Then the first time it happens I say "good bye mom", take the child and walk away.
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Old 02-04-2011, 12:59 PM
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I think there is a contingent of parents who really LIKE the drama at the door.
I do believe this. It is as is some parents want to show all adults present that "their child" misses them desperately when the parent is gone to work. It is not helpful to the child at all ....it just makes an insecure parent feel passionately and deeply cared for in a "car crash type" of spectacle.

When I see this type of behavior bubbling up at drop off I say " Bye Mommy! Have a nice day!".... Grasp lil guy's hand and walk away. Works every time. All my dc parents know that drop offs and pick ups should be short and sweet.
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Old 02-04-2011, 01:31 PM
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The dad also will call him names like poopy-head or stinky-butt that dcb gets in trouble if he says here. How would you handle this?
I think I would say sweet as pie, "Lil junior has been using bathroom talk during the day. Please work with me to curb this behavior."
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Old 02-04-2011, 06:25 PM
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I don't know.

For one the Dad obviously HAD thirty extra minutes this morning to one to one his kid, be with him, bond... give him lovin. Why couldn't they have done that at home? Why couldn't he have kept little guy home for thirty minutes and just give him undivided loving fatherly attention?

The drop off at day care shouldn't be a bonding experience between parent and child. Once you take your kid out in public and there is a transfer of who is caring for the child the idea is to make that transfer go smoothly for EVERYBODY... not just the kid and the Dad. It's the Dad's responsibility to make sure the kid is on his best behavior during these times. He wasn't doing this and was actually purposefully escalating the child by playing "poopy head" games ... leaving.. and returning to gear him back up.

I think there is a contingent of parents who really LIKE the drama at the door. They want to have that activity with the kid AROUND another adult. There's something inside of them that likes "showing off" their "I love me and mines the most bestest ever in the history of parenthood".

The Dad is most likely not dense in the head. After a few minutes it was most likely painfully clear that the provider didn't like the behavior in her house but he felt powerful and bold enough to let it go on and on and on... leave... then restart and go on and on and on.

THAT is a badly behaved adult. We shouldn't have to be any part of that just because they are a "parent" and it's "my child". If they are going to do the "me and mines" then they need to do it in PRIVATE where it REALLY counts.

Love up your kid and give your kid THAT kind of attention when you and your family are with them. Don't do it at the expense of a house full of people in public. It's rude.

If he's lacking in time with his kid. If he is having bad feelings about how much he is really raising his kid... then work with the other parent and make some changes. Don't involve a house full of people that have NOTHING to do with it by putting on a dog and pony show of badly behaving kid and adult at the door while she is trying to operate her business.
i didn't say it was okay for him to continue doing what he was doing. i actually said it needed to be stopped and i agree doing the exchange at the door would solve the problem.

i just don't think it's the typical power struggle or dramatic parent in this case.

the dad spending an extra 30 minutes "giving lovin'" at home wouldn't change a thing. there are husbands that go away for work and their wives know months in advance it's going to happen. that doesn't stop the water-works when the time actually comes. someone who sends their child to kindergarten has 5 years to prepare and give them love, but the actual moment of separation is still hard.

again, the fact that this dad/child might have a tough time with goodbyes due to the circumstances doesn't mean the provider should let it go. i think the same method would work with them that works with parents who are just dramatic or kids who are playing their parents. i'm just saying, i think in this particular case - it's not a matter of drama or stubborness, but more than likely it's a child who knows his dad WON'T be there that afternoon and a dad who has a hard time letting go bc of it.
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Old 02-07-2011, 09:18 AM
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http://daycare.com/forum/showthread....changing+guard

I call the dynamic of bad behavior at drop off and pick up "Changing of the Guard" behavior. It is seen primarily in children who are in charge of the relationship with their parents. It is seen in children who are more powerful than their parents and parents who want their child to be powerful/happy/special/ more than they want the child to have good public and interpersonal relationship. The parent does not want the child to cry so outbursts of obviously inappropriate behavior are acceptable to the parent as long as the child does them without crying and is happy. The harshest discipline used for these kids is "corporal coddling".

Changing of the guard behavior at drop off is when the child goes from being in power/control while in the care of his parents to the provider being in power/control while in the care of the provider. The child cries or acts out because they do not want to relinquish their control. They don't want the control to go to the provider so they delay the transfer of power by acting out.

They also want the provider to see that they are in control because arrivals and departures are the only opportunity the child has to make it clear to the provider that they are in control. As soon as the door closes behind the parent the child looses that really powerful position as their power supply has just backed up out the driveway.

At pick ups again the child realizes that once their power supply (parents) have arrived that they are back into power. They see that the parent again gives them the kingdom and you the provider aren't stopping them from taking over. They are used to the provider being the leader ALL day long so they KNOW something is terribly wrong when you all of a sudden stop leading.

All the kid sees is two adults who are not making him stop and demanding he behave properly in public. He has no choice to become the leader because the adults around him are not doing it. He loves to be the leader but unfortunately is ill equipped for the job as he is just a child. Children should NEVER lead adults. Children should NEVER lead themselves or other children. They are terribly inadaquate leaders. When they are allowed the job of leader the entire time they are in that role everything falls apart. Everyone is unhappy and nothing works out well.

The parent is often misbehaving at the drop off and pick up too. The parent knows when their child is behaving badly in public. They know how the adults around them looks when their child is acting up. They can feel the negative energy and exhasted energy from the adults around their child's public display of bad behavior. THEY KNOW THE PROVIDER HATES IT but they don't take over. They don't put a stop to it.

The parents often feel the provider works FOR them and because they are paying the provider that the provider should just have to DEAL with this witnessing of poor behavior. The parent doesn't care if it upsets you, your other day care kids, your kids. They are paying you and you better get to toleration quick or they will scoot on out your business.

The parent may have some other motivations for allowing it too. They may WANT the child to hang out at the day care before they go to work and after they are off of work because they are trying to get the kid off of their clock for as long as possible. There are a certain segment of parent population who allow misbehavior at drop off and pick up as a STALL technique to keep the child at day care longer. These are the ones that allow a wide breadth of time for their kid to be in care when they really only need nine hours. These parents will often pick providers with open hours so the parent can use time BEFORE work and AFTER work to be at the providers house with the kid because they don't want to be home with the kid by themselves any longer than they have to.



The provider is in a bad situation too. She doesn't like the changing of the guard behavior. She wants the child to behave as he does when SHE is leading him. She feels she can't discipline kids in front of their parent. She knows she wouldn't want someone disciplining HER kids in front of her so she sits back praying to Jesus that the parent put the kabosh on this and take over.

She also knows that it's a pretty touchy deal to start disciplining the kid especially at pick up time. She could offend the parent and the parent could pull the kid. She really really WANTS the kid to LEAVE so she can get on with her own family so she doesn't want to do ANYTHING to get prolong it.

So now you have the perfect storm. The child is being bombarded with badly behaving adults ... adults who are not being true to their feelings... adults who will not do WHATEVER it takes to show the child that the child can NEVER lead in their presence....

and a child who is BEGGING for calm stable minute to minute leadership

I don't have this dynamic in my day care because I do not EVER allow a child to lead in my home. I don't allow them to lead me or lead their parents. From the second the kid hits the inside of my house they are being led by ME. I don't leave the leadership up to the parents. I'm glad when I have ones that DO lead but I'm the leadingest leader no matter what.

IF a child is acting up at arrivals and departures despite my insistence that I be the leader then I institute the "Buh Bye Outside" program. This is where the parent says good bye to the child outside my door at drop off and does NOT come into the house. At pick up "I" say good bye to the child inside the house and send them out the door and the parent does NOT come in the house.

Both arrival and departure the child does not see the parent and I together. The parent brings the child to my door in the morning and says their goodbyes on my front step. They have as long as they want to say goodbye. They can spend an hour there if that's what they need. Once the parent knocks on my door then that is the signal that they are COMPLETELY DONE saying goodbye.

I open the door and just take the child over my threshold and shut the door very quickly. That makes the transition VERY short for the kid. This allows the parent to be the only adult tolerating the child's bad behavior. This takes away the audience for the child and parents bad behavior. This takes away the element of "you have to put up with my prince/princesses behavior because I am the boss of you and I pay you".

At departure the parent is to call me within five minutes of the arrival and we do the same thing in reverse. As soon as the parent arrives on my doorstep I open it up and assist the kid back over the threshold and quickly shut my door.

Rinse and repeat.

It usually takes about three days of the buh bye outside program to get both the parent and child to behave. By the third day the parent is bored out of their mind standing outside with their kid. The kid realizes that there isn't an audience for his behavior and the message that ANY time he is around the provider the provider is in charge is not broken or challenged.

I can always tell when we are ready to start integrating them back into the house by the decrease in the kids fit. I watch them thru the window. When the kid just comes and stands at my doorway looking at the door then I know it's time to start letting them EASE their way back into saying goodbye inside the house.

I start by allowing it at drop off but if the child causes any chaos they go back to saying good bye outside immediately. If drop off goes well for a few days then we try the inside departure. The slightest hint that the kid is going to act up and we go back to just donig the departure outside.

It's very important for the provider to take charge of the entire time the child is in your home. If you allow the parents to be the leader you will very often find that they won't do it. There are a LOT of parents who feel that their child should lead because they are special and they are theirs. It is becoming increasingly difficult to find parents who believe that they should always lead and that it is an embarrasment and a shame for their child to behave poorly around the day care.

It is an embarrasment and a shame that kids behave badly in public. We are their public. The only way to get the whole cycle to stop in my experience is to completely take charge of the entire thing. I don't allow ANY misbehavior when they are in my home. I don't hesitate in ANY way to discipline the children when they are under my roof. I don't give a flip whether their parents are here or not. The children NEVER see my behavior change when their parents arrive. I don't act differently to the child when the parent is here. I'm just as strict with my expectations whether the parent is there or not.

I don't allow parents to misbehave in my house. If they do not seize control of their kid and despite my interjections the kids are still acting up then they are not allowed the PRIVLEDGE of doing arrivals and departures inside my home. Once the parent and child looses the privledge of arrivals and departures inside they very quickly get bored of the rediculous behavior and start behaviing... BOTH the parent and the child start behaving.

Bottom line is stop allowing the kid and the parent to misbehave on your properly. Your house your rulses for EVERYBODY. Be the leader the child and parent need you to be. Be the leader every second of the time you have them in your home.

When you lead they will follow and peace will be yours.
Awesome, we need this for one DCM. It's been 6 months and she still acts like its the first week of her going back to work.
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Old 02-25-2011, 09:41 PM
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I just bought the domain name: daycarewhisperer.com

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

It will make it easier for people like you to stalk me.
Nannyde- let me know when you start writing on your webpage bc I will be reading all the time!! You have great ideals and also gives me courage to not let my DCP push me around.
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Old 02-26-2011, 03:28 AM
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Nannyde- let me know when you start writing on your webpage bc I will be reading all the time!! You have great ideals and also gives me courage to not let my DCP push me around.
My website will launch in about three weeks. I'll send you the info when it's up and running.
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Old 02-26-2011, 07:39 AM
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Default trying to make this jive with communication with a provider and open door policies?

I am a parent who is struggling with getting a chance to tell my provider about my son's health - medications for the sinus infection, need to drink during the day, etc. (they are busy when we arrive and DS runs right in). And we are in a center with an open door policy, but we have had awesome problems with running at pick up time. I do expect caregivers to be in control when we are in the center, and I would love a collect and deliver to me at the door. We have no problems at drop off, but I am not getting a chance to talk to the people who are with him most of the day. We had some serious dehydration last week. What can I do to improve things?
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Old 02-26-2011, 09:48 AM
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I am a parent who is struggling with getting a chance to tell my provider about my son's health - medications for the sinus infection, need to drink during the day, etc. (they are busy when we arrive and DS runs right in). And we are in a center with an open door policy, but we have had awesome problems with running at pick up time. I do expect caregivers to be in control when we are in the center, and I would love a collect and deliver to me at the door. We have no problems at drop off, but I am not getting a chance to talk to the people who are with him most of the day. We had some serious dehydration last week. What can I do to improve things?
Any time you have serious dehydration the child needs to remain at home. I wouldn't leave something that important to child care workers who have many other children. It's too risky. I'm a RN and I wouldn't want a child with serious dehydration in my care for a minute.

As far as pick up behavior it is best to take over with your child the second you step into the room. Drop off isn't a problem if your child is running INTO the care of someone else because you can turn and walk away and the responsibility is on someone else.

When you pick up the responsibility becomes yours to take over right away. When your child is in a large group and you enter the caregivers responsibiity is the other children. If you are having problems with his behavior then you have to be prepared to discipline him and get it stopped immediately. Don't hesitate to give him a consequence immediately right in the classroom if that is what it takes.

Center care is very different from home care. The ratios in three and up rooms is usually pretty high. Having to deal with childrens changing of the guard behavior while caring for such a large group is unrealistic. It's best for you to just walk in the door and immediately lead the child.

The lack of communication isn't good. Maybe go in a bit early and stand off to the side (with your child in hand) and wait for a chance to speak to the staff. If you don't get the response you need then ask to speak to their supervisor.

You have to be persistent and show the staff that you can and will expect your child to have good public behavior when you are present. Waiting alongside of you while you speak to the staff on both arrival and departure is a REALLY low level skill set that your child should VERY easily be able to do. Expect it and put consequences in place if he doesn't comply.
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Old 02-26-2011, 02:22 PM
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My website will launch in about three weeks. I'll send you the info when it's up and running.
Thank You!! I appreciate it!!
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Old 02-26-2011, 02:31 PM
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Default "because you can turn and walk away and the responsibility is on someone else"

As a parent, I never feel that the responsibility is anyone else's. Its mine, that I have asked for help with by bringing him to them. He became dehydrated there, was kept home and returned with a note from the doctor about drinks. I am not in a situation where I can keep him if the doctor says we must return. I have pushed that as far as I could. I have spoken to the director a few times, and they have had some staff leave. We may be following, but I am not sure how to handle the running issue- and he is really well behaved with me in most other circumstances. ( I do read that all the parents say that....)
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Old 02-26-2011, 03:11 PM
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As a parent, I never feel that the responsibility is anyone else's. Its mine, that I have asked for help with by bringing him to them. He became dehydrated there, was kept home and returned with a note from the doctor about drinks. I am not in a situation where I can keep him if the doctor says we must return. I have pushed that as far as I could. I have spoken to the director a few times, and they have had some staff leave. We may be following, but I am not sure how to handle the running issue- and he is really well behaved with me in most other circumstances. ( I do read that all the parents say that....)
YIKES

Any doctor that would allow a seriously dehydrated kid into group care is a doctor I wouldn't go to a second time. That's really scarry.

Maybe you could take liquids for him and right before he goes into the room make sure he has a substantial drink.... come on your lunch break and have a special lunch including a substantial drink... and then bring a drink into the center at pick up and have him drink it right when you arrive. If he's only there nine/ten hours a day and he has what you do plus his breakfast, lunch, and snack drinks you could get enough in him without involving the center?

What sinus medication are they giving him that couldn't be done at home? How many times a day is it? I don't do medication unless it's ordered four times a day or more. If it is three times a day the parent gives it before day care, after day care, and at the child's bedtime or the parents bedtime. This is what my school district does so I follow their policies on medication admininstration.

I have a contract with two centers in my consulting business. Part of what I do is work with the parents and the Dr's offices on "Dr's orders". I'm SHOCKED at some of the orders that come into these buildings. I've been able to work with the Center to get them down to next to zero medication administration (with the exception of their special needs kids). It's really helped the center lower costs. ALOT!!!!!

It's taken a bit of work to get the parents used to it but with strict policies in place and medication administration fees the requests for administration have dropped down dramatically.
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Old 02-27-2011, 06:11 AM
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Default I never asked them to administer the medication

But I wanted them to understand that he was on it (Cefprozil, guiffenasen) and that he needed to drink throughout the day, not just have milk offered and poured out when he didn't drink it. I also wanted them to know what was going on, that we had had strep, this was the fourth antibiotic and that we got it there, most likely, since the afterschool program kids had had it too. I did bring drinks, and did show up with water after nap to be sure he drank the last few days. They have a water fountain that is turned off, and when I left drinks they were not given to him.

To be honest, we called a mutual term at this center last week, but I was chastized for lingering to talk in the mornings and the running at pickup is a problem for me. DS was also injured twice with no incident report and there has been a staff turn over. To be honest - he also ran when it was time to go at two of the centers we visited last week.

I need to know what is my best course of action. Leaving open play or movie time is just like leaving the park. I am a mom who does not want her son to be in a center an extra hour longer than I work, so I come as soon as I get off - sometimes 4.

We have also had a series of MD appts, ENT too, and the director has stated that she wanted him there no later than 9 unless he is in the MDs or has a note. Often I work 11-4:30. I am not having a lot of luck finding another setting that wants to work with that either, but my most important hours are afternoon and morning appts are often more available. Of course we have drinks in the car to and from.
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Old 02-27-2011, 07:52 AM
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But I wanted them to understand that he was on it (Cefprozil, guiffenasen) and that he needed to drink throughout the day, not just have milk offered and poured out when he didn't drink it. I also wanted them to know what was going on, that we had had strep, this was the fourth antibiotic and that we got it there, most likely, since the afterschool program kids had had it too. I did bring drinks, and did show up with water after nap to be sure he drank the last few days. They have a water fountain that is turned off, and when I left drinks they were not given to him.

To be honest, we called a mutual term at this center last week, but I was chastized for lingering to talk in the mornings and the running at pickup is a problem for me. DS was also injured twice with no incident report and there has been a staff turn over. To be honest - he also ran when it was time to go at two of the centers we visited last week.

I need to know what is my best course of action. Leaving open play or movie time is just like leaving the park. I am a mom who does not want her son to be in a center an extra hour longer than I work, so I come as soon as I get off - sometimes 4.

We have also had a series of MD appts, ENT too, and the director has stated that she wanted him there no later than 9 unless he is in the MDs or has a note. Often I work 11-4:30. I am not having a lot of luck finding another setting that wants to work with that either, but my most important hours are afternoon and morning appts are often more available. Of course we have drinks in the car to and from.
I really like that you pick him up as soon as you can. That's awesome.

What I would do with the late drop offs is assure the Center that you are not allowing him to sleep in in the morning and that you will be on time for lunch so that they don't have a kid awake at nap and have to serve a lunch after the kids are already done. These are the two main problems with parents dropping off late.

Having a kid come in who has just been awake a short time will ruin nap time for everyone else. Centers don't make rules like that unless there is hardship on them when they allow it. Obviously one less kid is to their benefit unless that kid causes them to have to do one to one care once he arrives. Just assure them you KNOW this and that he will be given a full morning of activity and be ready for the afternoon nap. Make sure he gets a ton of exercise that morning and maybe get him up a little earlier to assure he is nice and tired for nap.

The liquids thing didn't work because that kind of care is beyond well child care for a group. You may find some centers who have employees who will make it work but as you saw with your previous one... it doesn't. Kids who have serious medical issues need to be home even if the solution for the serious medical issue is easy work.

The Centers I consult with have solved this by charging medical services fees and offering the fees directly to the employee managing it. So a "keep well hydrated" service would cost an additional ten dollars a day and that ten dollars goes to that childs caregiver at the days end. That has worked REALLY well for compliance on both parent and caregivers part. If the parents can do it themselves they don't pay for the service. If they want the staff to do it then the staff gets the additional fees.

Works like a charm

You sound like you dig your kid and I hope you find a great place for him. Just in the future try to solve everything yourself if it is possible and talk with the directors before your appointments and let them know you WILL make sure the kid is on time for meals or has already eaten and has been up running so he will take a good nap. Offer to come get him early if he isn't down within a half hour of nap time start.

That's all they really want to know (unless there is a field trip or something)
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Old 02-27-2011, 08:59 AM
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I really like that you pick him up as soon as you can. That's awesome.

What I would do with the late drop offs is assure the Center that you are not allowing him to sleep in in the morning and that you will be on time for lunch so that they don't have a kid awake at nap and have to serve a lunch after the kids are already done. These are the two main problems with parents dropping off late.
Another thing is that the kid is missing out on things when they get there at lunchtime or later. I always schedule special projects, field trips, etc. in the AM hours, plus our circle time, small group time and center play is the morning. A kid coming that late would basically eat lunch, nap, eat snack and have free play, or alternately not eat lunch or nap because they've so recently woken up and eaten breakfast, disrupt naptime and then become irritable in the late afternoon because they now need a nap (as you said).

Finally, late arrivals throw off the ratio....the ratio for 3 and 4yo's here is 1:10. If I have 9 at 9:30 (when the counts go in) and my assistant is sent somewhere else, and then I get two late-comers, I am now out of ratio.

We try to discourage persistent late-arrivals for reasons other than dr. appts, but we still routinely have kids coming in at 11:30 and 12. Not fun. I would advise the parent to try and drop her son off at least by 9:30 and then picking him up as soon as possible. That way, he'll get a significant portion of his daycare day and she gets sufficient awake-time with him too
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Old 02-27-2011, 09:00 AM
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Great post. Nannyde. Sometimes I feel like the parents think I need their child to nap so I can...

The amount of paperwork I have to do for the state each day, the disinfecting of toys, the preparation of toddler activities for the afternoon, the basic mopping of floors and cleaning up from lunch, preparing afternoon snack, giving infant bottles...

All of this has to be done in 2 pathetic hours and some days I don't even get to eat at all for the entire 10 hour shift..... By the time the kids wake up I am ready for a nap...

Did I mention that my pay works out to $2.08 an hour, after expenses.....BEFORE taxes....
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Old 02-27-2011, 01:53 PM
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Default Late arrivals, sick kids

Its really hard to take a sick, non-feverish, snotty kid anywhere. If the center had sent us home it would have helped so much, since the doctor ordered us back several times. Once they have been on antibiotics for 24 hours, the center policy is to bring them. The doctor knows this too. I did, he became dehydrated- and had been offered nothing to drink but milk, even when I brought him drinks with his name and explained.

They ALWAYS knew to call me if they had any problems and NEVER did. ( And I made a point to tell this to all of the new, rotating caregivers, too)

I am pretty sure they all make more than 2.08 an hour, and if that was all I made, I would find another gig in a hurry.

What parent doesn't dig their kid?
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Old 02-27-2011, 02:45 PM
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Its really hard to take a sick, non-feverish, snotty kid anywhere.

Most policies state that a child must be well enough to participate in daily activities. It the child was "ill and snotty" that should have been enough for you to keep him home, IMHO. Maybe check through your handbook if you need validation for your doctor.

If the center had sent us home it would have helped so much, since the doctor ordered us back several times. Once they have been on antibiotics for 24 hours, the center policy is to bring them. The doctor knows this too.

The decision to leave your child in daycare when he does not feel well is yours, not the centers OR the doctors. I cannot understand this comment... Do you have your child in a employer provided center and fear termination? It just does not make sense to me. I am not being sarcastic, I promise, it just does not make sense.

I did, he became dehydrated- and had been offered nothing to drink but milk, even when I brought him drinks with his name and explained.

Most have a policy of no drinks from home (parents dope and drop, sad but true) and they are legally obligated to give the milk. Group care is WELL CARE and even as good intentioned as your actions were, it was not realistic in a group care setting. They should have told you that, so that part of the issue IMHO falls on them.

They ALWAYS knew to call me if they had any problems and NEVER did. ( And I made a point to tell this to all of the new, rotating caregivers, too)

They have to go through the director who generally does not give the go ahead to call unless the child meets parameters to be sent home. Their hands are tied as well, they have to choose who to please....you or their boss.

I am pretty sure they all make more than 2.08 an hour, and if that was all I made, I would find another gig in a hurry.

The last time I did I lost my son to SIDS in a daycare and will never know all the details. I will go back to outside work when my kids are grown.... That is what the average Home Daycare Provider earns, BTW....

What parent doesn't dig their kid?

You would be shocked with a few years in this business....
I do hope you get your situation worked out, soon. Raising kids is very difficult and throws us many hurdles... It is all worth it at the end f the day
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Old 08-25-2014, 04:17 PM
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I love this soooo much! thanks you for sharing this awesome advise.
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Old 08-25-2014, 04:32 PM
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Apparently all of you are also watching my grandson lol. Just tell my son to knock it off!!!! I have been reporting to his fiance lol she is far more able to say bye bye and leave!
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Old 08-25-2014, 06:14 PM
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Its really hard to take a sick, non-feverish, snotty kid anywhere. If the center had sent us home it would have helped so much, since the doctor ordered us back several times. Once they have been on antibiotics for 24 hours, the center policy is to bring them. The doctor knows this too. I did, he became dehydrated- and had been offered nothing to drink but milk, even when I brought him drinks with his name and explained.

They ALWAYS knew to call me if they had any problems and NEVER did. ( And I made a point to tell this to all of the new, rotating caregivers, too)

I am pretty sure they all make more than 2.08 an hour, and if that was all I made, I would find another gig in a hurry.

What parent doesn't dig their kid?
The going rate for my area is $80 a week.
I'm sure yours is different.

7 to 4= 9 hours 5 days a week = 45 80 = less than $2 an hour that my daycare parents pay me.

But most of my kids are 6:30 to 5:30.
11 hours a day.
That's 55 hours a week.
So for one child I make less than a $1:50.
That's not including taxes or expenses.
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  #46  
Old 08-26-2014, 06:04 AM
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I love the bye bye outside and now do it for all my families all the time.

Nan, keep me updated on your launch!

As for the other situation with the daycare center, it sounds very common.....lots of turnover, little feedback, caregivers not willing or able to follow simple instructions, no one is going to care about making one kid drink if the child doesnt do it instantly. no one is going to sit by your child and tend to them the way you will. If your child needs any sort of individualized care, 99% of the time, they wont get that at a center. The director wont care about one mom with a sickly child wanted special treatment. It is going to be hard though to find someone else willing to do your schedule (drop off right before lunch....) and willing to deal with a child that is constantly sick or needy. But the only thing you can do is keep researching more options. You may have to go with a smaller center or home daycare and drop your child off earlier. My confusion is, why is your child struggling with dehydration when they are with you the majority of their hours? Why can this not be dealt with on your time? Of course the caregivers should offer liquids but what do you expect them to do when it is like a 15 to 1 ratio and your little one is not cooperative about finishing his drinks.....again, no one has the time to set and coax your child thru ever sip.
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Old 08-26-2014, 06:40 AM
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This is a thread from 2011.

Just in case any of you are hoping for a reply.
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Old 08-26-2014, 08:33 AM
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I open the door and just take the child over my threshold and shut the door very quickly.
1. How do the parents sign the child in and out? WI licensing rules require parents to sign the child in and out - we can get written up if a parent forgets.

2. How/when do you talk about the child's day or any concerns? I like touching base with the parents at drop off to find out how the child slept, what he/she ate, etc. And at pick up I tell them how the day went, something special we did, etc.

I currently don't need Buh-bye Outside, I'm just thinking about if/how I'd implement it if there were a problem.
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Old 08-26-2014, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by AmyKidsCo View Post
1. How do the parents sign the child in and out? WI licensing rules require parents to sign the child in and out - we can get written up if a parent forgets.

2. How/when do you talk about the child's day or any concerns? I like touching base with the parents at drop off to find out how the child slept, what he/she ate, etc. And at pick up I tell them how the day went, something special we did, etc.

I currently don't need Buh-bye Outside, I'm just thinking about if/how I'd implement it if there were a problem.
Just put a little plastic table by the door and pop the sign out sheet on it as you are pulling the kid in. Soon as parent is out of drive open door and grab it and take back in.

If you have things to discuss they can txt before care or you can text after arrival. It only takes a short time to fix so a few days of little communication should be ok.
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