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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Same Mom, Do You Find this Rude??
My4SunshineGirlsNY 05:55 AM 06-16-2010
The mom that irritates me..(allowed her kid in the drivers seat with car running, dropped son off without seeing me, lets him run all over her)...at pick up yesterday I was watching from my back yard (that's where I was with the other kids) and the boy gets in his mom's car, still running, the mom is on the outside of the car on the phone and the boy locks her out! With the car still running! I'm sending all my parents a memo tonight stating if they are outside of their car, the keys are to come with them.

The thing that she does that I find a bit rude is every morning and evening at drop off and pick up she NEVER knocks on my door first, she just walks right in. I guess I find that disrespectful...personally I would knock. I know I'm a registered daycare and she should have access, but morals tells me to knock first...what do you think? Even if she knocked and walked in would be better than just barging in.

Maybe I'm just irritated at all the other things she does that the little things are getting to me, including dropping her son off at 8:15 and NEVER feeding him first when my breakfast time is over by 8:30...by 8:15 I usually have it cleaned up and getting my elementary kids ready for the bus...she has ONE son to take care of...wonder if she ever thinks how that inconveniences me?
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momofboys 06:03 AM 06-16-2010
Originally Posted by My4SunshineGirlsNY:
The mom that irritates me..(allowed her kid in the drivers seat with car running, dropped son off without seeing me, lets him run all over her)...at pick up yesterday I was watching from my back yard (that's where I was with the other kids) and the boy gets in his mom's car, still running, the mom is on the outside of the car on the phone and the boy locks her out! With the car still running! I'm sending all my parents a memo tonight stating if they are outside of their car, the keys are to come with them.

The thing that she does that I find a bit rude is every morning and evening at drop off and pick up she NEVER knocks on my door first, she just walks right in. I guess I find that disrespectful...personally I would knock. I know I'm a registered daycare and she should have access, but morals tells me to knock first...what do you think? Even if she knocked and walked in would be better than just barging in.

Maybe I'm just irritated at all the other things she does that the little things are getting to me, including dropping her son off at 8:15 and NEVER feeding him first when my breakfast time is over by 8:30...by 8:15 I usually have it cleaned up and getting my elementary kids ready for the bus...she has ONE son to take care of...wonder if she ever thinks how that inconveniences me?
I personally would lock my doors. At least in the morning so you can monitor who comes & goes. Unless you are not permitted to for licensing reasons. I think it's highly rude to not knock whether your door is locked or not. I would never go into someone's home without them opening the door unless they called out, "Come on in . . . " Regarding your breakfast time though if you say it's until 8:30 & he comes at 8:15 that seems fair to still feed him. Maybe you should tell parents it ends at 8:00 if you are already cleaning up by 8:15. JMO!
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tymaboy 06:22 AM 06-16-2010
I am registered as well & my front door is always locked. That way a complete stranger can not come walking in. Plus it drives me nuts when parent try to walk right into my home. I had 2 DCDs do it (the few times I forgot to lock my door) & both of them have served time in jail for shady things.
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Crystal 06:29 AM 06-16-2010
My door is always unlocked and my parents NEVER knock. I feel that if their child is coming or going, this is like any other place of business, they can walk in.

We are not allowed to lock our doors, per licensing. Parents like to know that they can walk in unnanounced.

The provider locking the door and making parents wait for it to be answered can make parents suspicious as to WHY you don't want them popping in.

On the other issue....I would type up a letter stating your EXACT expectations of this parent, letting her know that if her child EVER gets into a running car without her in it again at your home, that she will be terminated and CPS will be contacted immediately. She is allowing her child to put himself, and any other person in the area in grave danger. I would not mince words about it, I'd be very straightforward and SERIOUS about it.
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jen 06:55 AM 06-16-2010
I don't have my families knock either....truthfully, I don't want knocking doors and dogs barking all morning/evening long. It's easier for me for them to just come in. After morning drop-offs I lock up until pickup time.
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nannyde 07:16 AM 06-16-2010
Originally Posted by Crystal:
We are not allowed to lock our doors, per licensing.
Can you site the code for this please? The specific licensing regulation.
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tmcp2001 07:20 AM 06-16-2010
I encourage my DCP's to walk right in - it's a huge pain for me to run down and answer the door while I'm trying to care for 5-10 children. I try to keep an eye out for parents pulling in the driveway so that I'm aware they are here but other than that, I'm so focused on the kids that I'm not really paying attention (and heck, sometimes it's so noisy in here that I may not hear them knock). I'm so happy that it's summer now so I can leave the door open with just the full glass storm door closed, it makes it easier for parents to just come in.
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Crystal 07:33 AM 06-16-2010
Originally Posted by nannyde:
Can you site the code for this please? The specific licensing regulation.
why? do you REALLY need to challenge EVERYTHING I say?
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nannyde 07:42 AM 06-16-2010
Originally Posted by Crystal:
why? do you REALLY need to challenge EVERYTHING I say?
Because it sounds very unsafe. I'm interested in the actual wording on this. I'm not able to find it in California's regs. If I remember correctly that is your state.

The only regs I can see regarding things that are to be "locked" are for guns, medicine, and pools.
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safechner 08:21 AM 06-16-2010
Originally Posted by My4SunshineGirlsNY:
The mom that irritates me..(allowed her kid in the drivers seat with car running, dropped son off without seeing me, lets him run all over her)...at pick up yesterday I was watching from my back yard (that's where I was with the other kids) and the boy gets in his mom's car, still running, the mom is on the outside of the car on the phone and the boy locks her out! With the car still running! I'm sending all my parents a memo tonight stating if they are outside of their car, the keys are to come with them.

The thing that she does that I find a bit rude is every morning and evening at drop off and pick up she NEVER knocks on my door first, she just walks right in. I guess I find that disrespectful...personally I would knock. I know I'm a registered daycare and she should have access, but morals tells me to knock first...what do you think? Even if she knocked and walked in would be better than just barging in.

Maybe I'm just irritated at all the other things she does that the little things are getting to me, including dropping her son off at 8:15 and NEVER feeding him first when my breakfast time is over by 8:30...by 8:15 I usually have it cleaned up and getting my elementary kids ready for the bus...she has ONE son to take care of...wonder if she ever thinks how that inconveniences me?
To me, yes it is very rude of her not to knock the door before enter your home. I always locked my front door because I wouldn't comfortable for the parents enter my home. I do believe it is safe for my daycare kids and my own.

I wouldn't image a few of providers leave unlock the door all day. Thinking about it. What if bogeyman or robbery watched the parents enter your home everyday. One day, someone shows up unexpected to hurt you or any kids, you never know. You might want to think twice. I am just trying to protection myself and the kids...
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misol 08:28 AM 06-16-2010
Originally Posted by Crystal:
why? do you REALLY need to challenge EVERYTHING I say?
Crystal, honestly I was curious to know what the wording was on this also. There was a similar thread a while back and one of the posters interpreted "open door policy" to mean that she had to keep her door unlocked at all times - which was not the case.

With all the crazies in the world today, I think it's unsafe. I keep my doors locked at ALL times whether kids are here or not. I would be very uncomfortable as a parent knowing that at anytime anyone could just walk in off the street and have access to my child. It also becomes a liability when the kids are able to just walk right out the front door.
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mac60 08:42 AM 06-16-2010
My doors are unlocked at drop off and pick up times. Many other times they are locked. Whenever I go out in the backyard, I always lock my front door, always. We tend to have a lot of people walk by our house in our addition, and sometimes our addition is used as a cut thru to another addition. By the looks of some of the people that do walk past my home, they are quite shady. I too have an open door policy, but if you plan on coming early or later to drop off or pick up, I expect a phone call first. Hubby works second now, and people just waltzing in wakes him up and the dogs go off barking, little ones that are napping get woke up, etc. It is nothing but being respectful of me and my business and my family. Doesn't mean I have anything to hide, just respectful.
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tymaboy 08:47 AM 06-16-2010
Open door policy means that the parent can come at anytime during hours of care to see their child it does not mean that the door needs to be unlocked. When I have my inspections they know that my door is locked even during care hours.

I do not know the back ground on all the parents that have ever been in care but I do know that 2 different fathers have been in jail. The one ended up serving time while his daughter was in my care for drugs & theft. This same dad I had found wondering threw rooms of my home that he did not need to be before he caught for his behavior.

On a different forum that I go to someone was talking about a "salesman" that went to her house & made a comment to her about having the door locked. Now why/how would that "salesman" know it was locked if he did not try it 1st? Later she talked to her neighbors to find out that this "saleman" skipped the homes that a there was a guy (husbands) outside working in the garage or yard. I have kids in care & to me it just makes sense to be safe & not sorry.
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My4SunshineGirlsNY 08:56 AM 06-16-2010
I would find it safer for the kids to have the door locked, we don't want just anyone and everyone walking into our home. I do understand daycare clients should feel we are not hiding anything, I have absolutely nothing at all to hide, however just walking into someone's personal home just seems rude to me...I had my kids in a home daycare 2 years ago and I always knocked and waited for her to answer. I see how this could be a debate either way...I guess I just personally find it rude and wanted to see how other's perceived it.

As far as against regulations here in NY, I would have to look it up, however our local center has the door locked at all times and someone from inside has to let you in.
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Greenshadow 09:33 AM 06-16-2010
Right now the parents knock and I answer it or say "Come in!". It does interrupt what Im doing, especially in the morning, because usually Im making breakfasts and thats at the back of my house. I may change that and just tell the parents to come in. It would be alot easier than to stop what Im doing and answer the door when I already know who it is. Although I DO keep my door locked during the day because my own son, who is 2, will open the door and walk away. LOL. It would be nice to have the door unlocked though in the early mornings at drop-off and again at pick-up times.
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nannyde 09:40 AM 06-16-2010
Originally Posted by tymaboy:
Open door policy means that the parent can come at anytime during hours of care to see their child it does not mean that the door needs to be unlocked. When I have my inspections they know that my door is locked even during care hours.

I do not know the back ground on all the parents that have ever been in care but I do know that 2 different fathers have been in jail. The one ended up serving time while his daughter was in my care for drugs & theft. This same dad I had found wondering threw rooms of my home that he did not need to be before he caught for his behavior.

On a different forum that I go to someone was talking about a "salesman" that went to her house & made a comment to her about having the door locked. Now why/how would that "salesman" know it was locked if he did not try it 1st? Later she talked to her neighbors to find out that this "saleman" skipped the homes that a there was a guy (husbands) outside working in the garage or yard. I have kids in care & to me it just makes sense to be safe & not sorry.
Yeah just because someone has a kid it doesn't mean they are safe to be around your other day care kids, your kids, or unsupervised on your property. We would all like to put the "umbrealla" of safe parent on all parents but it just isn't true. I can and do do a criminal check on my day care parents before I allow an interview BUT it is only for my State.

I've done home child care for nearly 17 years and I've never had a parent come in my house unnanounced. They know before the interview that my doors are locked at all times. I have my kid here and that's reason enough. I'm his parent and I say NO to him being in the home with unlocked doors. I dont think it's safe for him so being the parent... I have the right to keep my child safe. If it's a choice between what they want for their child and what I want for mine... mine will always come first. I haven't had that issue though because my day care parents would NOT like their child to be here all day with the doors unlocked. They all... individually... would like for THEM to be the ones who could come in unnanounced but they wouldn't like it if the other day care parents and anybody else who wanted to to come in any time they wanted. Can't have that both ways.

My State has recently published our names, address, license number, AND a map search for all home day cares. Putting a reg in saying that we are required to keep our doors unlocked would essentially be giving society a searchable list by location of thousands of women home alone with a group of kids and an unlocked door. That's SO unsafe.

I'm REALLY anxious to see the actual regulation Crystal is referring to. I'm interested in the actual wording. Once she sites that then I can do a little research on whether or not that has been litigated. I don't see my State doing this because the Union would have a field day with something so obviously unsafe.
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Crystal 09:49 AM 06-16-2010
Sorry OP for this going off topic....not my intention at all, I was only replying to your post when this got turned to me.

The state regs do not spell it out for you. The only thing you will see there is that, because I am licensed for 14 children, I have to have a fire inspection by the local fire marshall. The fire marshall does not allow doors to be locked because they are emergency exits in the event of a fire. This also varies county to county. There is nothing on-line that spells that out for you,so you'll just have to take my word for it, or not believe me.....

I have been in business 13 years and have never locked my doors. I realize that it would be considered safer by many to keep them locked. I realize "open-door policy" does not mean unlocked doors in all states/counties, but it does here.

I have also never had a parent have an issue with it.....of course if they do not like it, they could choose to go with another provider, but that has never happened, and all families are told at our initial meeting that the door is unlocked and they are welcome to come in, unnanounced, at any time of the day, so long as their child is here or they are dropping off.

On side note, re. safety, I do have a dog and my husband works with me, so I do feel a bit safer with those factors considered.
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Golden Rule 09:59 AM 06-16-2010
Part of providing a safe environment is locking the doors IMHO. My parents would go through the roof if they found them unlocked. They are allowed in my home at any time, most have even "sub'ed" for me when my family was sick.....

I also check ID on family members I have not met and make a verbal confirmation at time of pick up..... I guess I am over protective.

I get riled up with folks peeking in windows, cannot imagine what I'd do with someone just walking in So yes, it is beyond rude to me.....
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laundryduchess@yahoo.com 10:09 AM 06-16-2010
as far as that goes, my doorknob is locked from the outside but will open from inside,.. maybe that could work for you. Personally in Indiana,... I lock mine anytime I know noone is coming or someone new is parked in the neighborhood. If someone has a garage sale,.. etc. Anything that would welcome strangers to the area. If lic has an issue with it they can kiss my hootie. If parents have a problem, they can do the same. My responsibility to the kids I keep goes above their "issues". As far as regs,....I cant have a door that has to have special knowledge or equipment to open,.. like the safety door knobs, you have to squeeze to open, or the key deadbolts, only the knob ones.

Open door means they are welcome to come ANYTIME I have their kid in care,.. it doesnt mean the door has to be unlocked all the time.

Originally Posted by Crystal:
Sorry OP for this going off topic....not my intention at all, I was only replying to your post when this got turned to me.

The state regs do not spell it out for you. The only thing you will see there is that, because I am licensed for 14 children, I have to have a fire inspection by the local fire marshall. The fire marshall does not allow doors to be locked because they are emergency exits in the event of a fire. This also varies county to county. There is nothing on-line that spells that out for you,so you'll just have to take my word for it, or not believe me.....

I have been in business 13 years and have never locked my doors. I realize that it would be considered safer by many to keep them locked. I realize "open-door policy" does not mean unlocked doors in all states/counties, but it does here.

I have also never had a parent have an issue with it.....of course if they do not like it, they could choose to go with another provider, but that has never happened, and all families are told at our initial meeting that the door is unlocked and they are welcome to come in, unnanounced, at any time of the day, so long as their child is here or they are dropping off.

On side note, re. safety, I do have a dog and my husband works with me, so I do feel a bit safer with those factors considered.

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Daycare Mommy 10:10 AM 06-16-2010
I keep the doors locked at all times. My feeling about it is that it's my home still and not a full blown center, so I don't have to keep my door open. I mean think about it, I am only 1 person alone with 7 very young children to protect. And hearing about home invasions (even some in home daycare) is too scary to think about leaving them unlocked.

As for the parents being suspicious, I have my curtains open anytime the kids are here and awake, so the parents may not be able to walk right in, but they can see straight through the house from our street, yard, or driveway. I may pull the sheers closed when I'm dancing around with them, but other than that, no secrets here!

Also there are doorknobs that you can lock the outside and not the inside handle. Maybe that'd be an acceptable option for those with regs state that fire exits must be unlocked?
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Daycare Mommy 10:10 AM 06-16-2010
lol laundry duchess beat me to it by a minute. haha
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Janet 10:27 AM 06-16-2010
For myself, locking the door is more of a hassle for me, but the way that my house is laid out, there is never a need for the parents or kids to go downstairs. I can just shut the door to my downstairs family room and my bedroom which is downstairs if I want to. I live in a no outlet subdivision and the street I live on only has 3 houses on it. My neighborhood is tiny and everybody knows everybody so we are all hyper aware of people who don't live here or go to my daycare, lol. I'm lucky in that way. "Open Door" policies are not policies preventing the provider from locking her doors. It just means that the parent always has access to the child. Nothing about not keeping doors unlocked. I don't care if families knock or not, one family does but the rest don't. I've told them all that they can just come on in, but it was my choice to tell them that. I have a gate at the entrance to my daycare space and if it's closed, then the parents never go over it or even open it. I've never asked them not to, maybe it's some sort of unwritten rule.

Crystal, I'm not trying to be a jerk but if you are going to tell people that it's in state rules that doors can't be locked, then you really should be prepared to refer to the rules in the state's policy handbook. Don't be so defensive when people asked you where you got your information from, just be able to back up what you say. Sorry if I'm making you mad, I just think that it would be helpful to have the guidelines handy so that you can back up your comments. Otherwise, you can't prove that you're correct anymore than other people can prove that you're incorrect.
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nannyde 10:28 AM 06-16-2010
Originally Posted by Crystal:
Sorry OP for this going off topic....not my intention at all, I was only replying to your post when this got turned to me.

The state regs do not spell it out for you. The only thing you will see there is that, because I am licensed for 14 children, I have to have a fire inspection by the local fire marshall. The fire marshall does not allow doors to be locked because they are emergency exits in the event of a fire. This also varies county to county. There is nothing on-line that spells that out for you,so you'll just have to take my word for it, or not believe me.....

I have been in business 13 years and have never locked my doors. I realize that it would be considered safer by many to keep them locked. I realize "open-door policy" does not mean unlocked doors in all states/counties, but it does here.
So it's not your "licensing" it's your county fire marshall? Gotcha

It's not off topic. You are the one that brought up your licensing requires an open door. You said "We are not allowed to lock our doors, per licensing." Somebody else is making the decision for you. We don't have the luxury or rather curse of that.

These are situations that make me very greatful to be in a union. I know a lot here don't play union but I have seen some really brass tack things be dealt with with common sense and real life input into regulations that take our decision making away.

I don't have a problem with providers who keep unlocked all day. I have a problem with regulations that require it.

I had my own kid scoot out the door when my neice left it unlocked when he was less than two. She was going out to her car ACROSS the street and he was wanted to go with her. I know she pulled the door shut because I saw that. Didn't think to lock it behind her because she was coming right back in.

I didn't even know he COULD twist the handle on the door and pull it. I never allow the dc kids to be anywhere near an outside door so I didn't have the experience to know when they COULD do that. He made it all the way to the sidewalk before I caught up to him.

One of my finer parenting mistakes.

Put a second high bolt lock on that evening on both front and back door. Kept it double locked until he was old enough to know better.
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momofboys 10:29 AM 06-16-2010
My doors are locked 99% of the time. I live down the road from a state prison & although I'd like to think my neighborhood is a nice & safe one (small town, know neighbors, etc) you can never be too safe. I feel better knowing they are locked. My blinds are always open & I am prompt to open the door. But this is my home, not WAL-MART or Target. I am not open 24/7 & only care for 1-2 families at a time. I am fine with a parent dropping in anytime but in my home I must feel safe & to do so my doors remain locked.
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judytrickett 11:06 AM 06-16-2010
My doors are locked ALL THE TIME. Even between arrivals of the children. If the parents can't trust me behind a locked door with their child then they have no business leaving their child with me.

I will tell you why. First, off this is still my home and no one will just walk in at will. The second is an experience I had once that I NEVER want to repeat ESPECIALLY with children in the house:

A man once walked right into our home. I was sitting on the couch and my husband (luckily) was outside in the back yard. This man walked right in, started screaming at me and calling me beligerant names and walking closer to me. He was obviously drunk and it was VERY scary. I screamed for my husband who came running and managed to get the guy to the ground. We ended up calling the police and they took it from there.

It is MY SOLE responsibility to ensure the safety of EVERY single child in my care. Having an unlocked door had demonstrated to me that at ANY moment in time something could happen. Anyone could walk in.

What might have happened if my husband were not home? I shudder to think. Do I ever want to put a CHILD in that position? Never!
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boysx5 11:13 AM 06-16-2010
I lock my doors I don't feel safe with them unlock not in this day in age. I have a sign in sheet on my door they sign knock and I'm there in seconds. They know they can come anytime and I am home and will answer the door its my home and I don't think they should be able to walk right in
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Janet 11:18 AM 06-16-2010
It's awesome having a bunch of nosy busy-bodies as neighbors hehehe!

In all seriousness, if I didn't live in such a small neighborhood with so many SAHM's and people who get up all up in the Kool-aid and don't know the flavor, then I would most definitely lock my doors!

I guess it's a good thing that I'm probably the craziest individual in the neighborhood!!!
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DCMom 11:27 AM 06-16-2010
Parents walking in is not something that ever really bothered me, even when my daycare was upstairs in the main part of my home. I always just took it as part of the territory. Most of my dckids would arrive around the same time and usually walk in with a "Good Morning or 'I'm here' and stand right in the entryway. If they arrived in the middle of the day or some other unscheduled time, I would expect them to knock. Besides, they would have to because I locked my door after the last child had arrived

Now that daycare is in the basement with a separate entrance, it's more of a 'business' than 'home' so I don't care if they knock or not because I or my assistant are right there.


Isn't it funny how once they start to irritate us, everything they do continues to irritate us? I would have a chat with her about the meal thing though. That is one of my biggest pet peeves; I actually have it right in my polices about arriving after mealtimes and I stick to it.
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HeatherB 11:34 AM 06-16-2010
I have stated in my handbook that every parent must knock once before entering. I have dogs and this tells them that someone is walking in. THey bark and greet the person HOWEVER if it is not person they know it is a more aggressive bark. I do lock my doors during the day and still have an 'open door policy' with my parents. 11 years with no problem with this routine ever.
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misol 12:11 PM 06-16-2010
Originally Posted by nannyde:

I had my own kid scoot out the door when my neice left it unlocked when he was less than two. She was going out to her car ACROSS the street and he was wanted to go with her. I know she pulled the door shut because I saw that. Didn't think to lock it behind her because she was coming right back in.

I didn't even know he COULD twist the handle on the door and pull it. I never allow the dc kids to be anywhere near an outside door so I didn't have the experience to know when they COULD do that. He made it all the way to the sidewalk before I caught up to him.

One of my finer parenting mistakes.

Put a second high bolt lock on that evening on both front and back door. Kept it double locked until he was old enough to know better.
nannyde, I just had to do the exact same thing 2 weeks ago! My 20-month old daughter kept unlocking and opening the door to everyone as well as letting herself out. I had a dc kid that did this as well! I originally had one of those child safety locks on the handle and although they couldn't open the door with it in place, they learned how to crack the whole thing off! So I put in a second high bolt so that she (and the other dc kids) can't reach it. Only my 3-yr old son can reach it if he stands on a chair. He can get it open in an emergency.
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sahm2three 12:28 PM 06-16-2010
I lock my doors. I am a compulsive door locker. All my parents know this. I, for a time, lived in a big city and it was a MUST to keep you door locked at all times. I had someone trying to break into my home in the middle of the day while I was there!!! So I lock my doors, the second I close it. They all know it. That would fix that!
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Crystal 12:56 PM 06-16-2010
Originally Posted by laundryduchess@yahoo.com:
As far as regs,....I cant have a door that has to have special knowledge or equipment to open,.. like the safety door knobs, you have to squeeze to open, or the key deadbolts, only the knob ones. .
Yes, I have this too....no knowledge hardware, even if deadbolt is locked it will open from the inside. I asked the fire marshall why I still need to keep it unlocked then if I have this....the response was "just in case a CHILD locks the door, everyone can still get out" Silly, I know, but I don't make the regs....just abide by them. Thanks for the advice
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Crystal 01:00 PM 06-16-2010
Originally Posted by Janet:

Crystal, I'm not trying to be a jerk but if you are going to tell people that it's in state rules that doors can't be locked, then you really should be prepared to refer to the rules in the state's policy handbook. Don't be so defensive when people asked you where you got your information from, just be able to back up what you say. Sorry if I'm making you mad, I just think that it would be helpful to have the guidelines handy so that you can back up your comments. Otherwise, you can't prove that you're correct anymore than other people can prove that you're incorrect.
No worries, I don't think you're being a jerk I do not have an issue with backing up what I say....it just never fails that when I post that Nannyde takes every opportunity to start something with me....hence my aggravation in my first post. Unfortunately I don't have anything in writing.....but I am going to attempt to get an email addy and see if I can get some clarification from the fire marshall.
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Crystal 01:02 PM 06-16-2010
[quote=judytrickett;32783]

A man once walked right into our home. I was sitting on the couch and my husband (luckily) was outside in the back yard. This man walked right in, started screaming at me and calling me beligerant names and walking closer to me. He was obviously drunk and it was VERY scary. I screamed for my husband who came running and managed to get the guy to the ground. We ended up calling the police and they took it from there.
QUOTE]

Wow, wierd and scary, wonder what this guy was thinking?! Fortunately, I have never had any incidents like that....but these types of stories make me grateful that my husband works with me full time.
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Crystal 01:04 PM 06-16-2010
Originally Posted by Janet:
It's awesome having a bunch of nosy busy-bodies as neighbors hehehe!

In all seriousness, if I didn't live in such a small neighborhood with so many SAHM's and people who get up all up in the Kool-aid and don't know the flavor, then I would most definitely lock my doors!

I guess it's a good thing that I'm probably the craziest individual in the neighborhood!!!
LOL! I have nosey neighbors too.

I live at the end of a court.....almost every house leading to mine has a sahm or people who work at home, so we all keep an eye on each other. I feel very safe in my neighborhood.
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originalkat 01:51 PM 06-16-2010
I keep my doors unlocked in the morning during drop-offs and in the evening during pick-ups. Other than that I keep the doors locked. I feel it is safer that way. I do not have parents knock before coming in. BUT... I told them this when they interviewed. You need to tell the parents what you expect or they wont know.
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TGT09 02:15 PM 06-16-2010
I tell SOME of my parents to come on in and down. I run the daycare out of my basement so it's easier if they come down. However, there are some parents that I just don't want coming right in.

If you aren't allowed to lock doors for licensing reasons, I would put a note on the door stating to: Knock before entering, or Ring bell before entering. It's not just rude, it's a form of notification that someone is there!!
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momma2girls 02:16 PM 06-16-2010
Originally Posted by HeatherB:
I have stated in my handbook that every parent must knock once before entering. I have dogs and this tells them that someone is walking in. THey bark and greet the person HOWEVER if it is not person they know it is a more aggressive bark. I do lock my doors during the day and still have an 'open door policy' with my parents. 11 years with no problem with this routine ever.
I also have this in my contract in bold letters, for ones that just come right on in, and have scared me to death, just standing there!! I have it written like please respect my home and daycare, and please knock before entering, please!!!
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momma2girls 02:17 PM 06-16-2010
I also lock my door when no one is expected for safety as well!!
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Crystal 02:24 PM 06-16-2010
I would consider it disrespectful if the parents have been asked to knock.

For me it's not disrepectful, because they have all been told to come right in....I am almost always busy playing/working/teaching and prefer not to have to stop what I am doing to answer the door. I do have 14 children though, so having to answer the door that many times would get rather disruptive after awhile
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Unregistered 04:37 PM 06-16-2010
Originally Posted by Crystal:
I would consider it disrespectful if the parents have been asked to knock.

For me it's not disrepectful, because they have all been told to come right in....I am almost always busy playing/working/teaching and prefer not to have to stop what I am doing to answer the door. I do have 14 children though, so having to answer the door that many times would get rather disruptive after awhile
Sorry, not trying to change the subject. I'm just wondering, Crystal, if you have one or two assistants with the 14 children. I am allowed up to 16 and it can get pretty crazy with just 2 people, so on the busiest day(s) of the week I have another lady come in for the hardest part of the day. Do you split the 14 kids up between the adults, or are they combined doing the same activity at the same time? Just trying to get some tips that may make things run more smoothly.
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professionalmom 05:56 PM 06-16-2010
Originally Posted by Crystal:
Sorry OP for this going off topic....not my intention at all, I was only replying to your post when this got turned to me.

The state regs do not spell it out for you. The only thing you will see there is that, because I am licensed for 14 children, I have to have a fire inspection by the local fire marshall. The fire marshall does not allow doors to be locked because they are emergency exits in the event of a fire. This also varies county to county. There is nothing on-line that spells that out for you,so you'll just have to take my word for it, or not believe me.....

I have been in business 13 years and have never locked my doors. I realize that it would be considered safer by many to keep them locked. I realize "open-door policy" does not mean unlocked doors in all states/counties, but it does here.

I have also never had a parent have an issue with it.....of course if they do not like it, they could choose to go with another provider, but that has never happened, and all families are told at our initial meeting that the door is unlocked and they are welcome to come in, unnanounced, at any time of the day, so long as their child is here or they are dropping off.

On side note, re. safety, I do have a dog and my husband works with me, so I do feel a bit safer with those factors considered.
I wonder if the rule about the door being unlocked for the purposes of an emergency exit could mean that it could be locked on one side. I know that sounds weird. There are doors that automatically lock and you can't get in from the outside, but on the inside there is a bar that when pushed (from the inside) it overrides the lock.

It doesn't make sense to me. Most DC centers that I have been to are locked and you need to be buzzed in. Many schools are now on lock-down and have their doors locked during school hours. Why wouldn't it be the same for home daycare? My husband is also here during most of my daycare hours AND he's a black belt in 2 types of martial arts. BUT that means absolutely nothing if someone comes in with a gun.

My DC parents have never said anything about the locked door. I even lock it back up (and the dead bolt) BEFORE they get back in their car. They can usually hear the "click" of the lock. I think they prefer it that way. But, aside from intruders and such, what about the escape artists. You know children love to try to open doors and they can get out very quickly. Why make it easier for them to get out, run into the street, and get hurt? I would double check and make sure it's an actual RULE and not a suggestion or recommendation. If it is a rule, then I would fight it for safety reasons (intruders, escape artists, etc.).

Plus, like someone else said, my state also publishes the name, address, etc. of everyone who is licensed. So if we couldn't lock our doors, that would be free advertising to any and all pedophiles, rapists, killers, thieves, etc.
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Crystal 07:38 PM 06-16-2010
Our state doesn't publish our addresses, and it's not allowed on any of our advertising either. I'll see if I can find that reg for you

So there ya go! Some states make all of this information public - posing a safety issue and some locations don't allow doors to be locked - posing a safety issue. I guess in the end, it's all the same, no State is perfect in their regulations. I think there needs to be a National set of guidelines. It would be so much easier.
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momma2girls 07:53 PM 06-16-2010
Originally Posted by Crystal:
I would consider it disrespectful if the parents have been asked to knock.

For me it's not disrepectful, because they have all been told to come right in....I am almost always busy playing/working/teaching and prefer not to have to stop what I am doing to answer the door. I do have 14 children though, so having to answer the door that many times would get rather disruptive after awhile
Yes, I have even had to place notes on my door to please knock, then come on in!!! I have been scared many times by parents just coming right on in- once it was 20 min. early, I had just unlocked my door, and I went to get clothes on for the day. I came out and there she was standing there, coat off child, etc. I could have died!!! They don't come early any longer, unless asked and agreed upon. From now on I only unlock my door at the earliest drop off and not a min. before!!! lol!!!
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QualiTcare 09:22 PM 06-16-2010
Originally Posted by professionalmom:
I wonder if the rule about the door being unlocked for the purposes of an emergency exit could mean that it could be locked on one side. I know that sounds weird. There are doors that automatically lock and you can't get in from the outside, but on the inside there is a bar that when pushed (from the inside) it overrides the lock.

It doesn't make sense to me. Most DC centers that I have been to are locked and you need to be buzzed in. Many schools are now on lock-down and have their doors locked during school hours. Why wouldn't it be the same for home daycare? My husband is also here during most of my daycare hours AND he's a black belt in 2 types of martial arts. BUT that means absolutely nothing if someone comes in with a gun.

My DC parents have never said anything about the locked door. I even lock it back up (and the dead bolt) BEFORE they get back in their car. They can usually hear the "click" of the lock. I think they prefer it that way. But, aside from intruders and such, what about the escape artists. You know children love to try to open doors and they can get out very quickly. Why make it easier for them to get out, run into the street, and get hurt? I would double check and make sure it's an actual RULE and not a suggestion or recommendation. If it is a rule, then I would fight it for safety reasons (intruders, escape artists, etc.).

Plus, like someone else said, my state also publishes the name, address, etc. of everyone who is licensed. So if we couldn't lock our doors, that would be free advertising to any and all pedophiles, rapists, killers, thieves, etc.
the daycare my kids went to had a door that you could exit from the inside, but you had to type a code into a keypad to get in from the outside. people would always walk right in behind each other without typing the code in still - so nothing is fool proof. there also was a kid who ran out of the building once - a 4 year old. a lot of people don't like deadbolts though. i've been wanting them at my house because my son is a terror and has been known to just go outside while i'm doing laundry or taking a shower. my husband doesn't want them incase there's a fire.

i would be suspicious if i had to knock at a daycare - home or not. you're opening up your home for business so during those times it's not just home. i'd probably knock as i was walking in though. i wouldn't feel like it was unsafe to leave the doors unlocked. the way i see it is if someone really wants to get in, they're going to get in.
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nannyde 11:40 AM 06-17-2010
Originally Posted by Crystal:
.it just never fails that when I post that Nannyde takes every opportunity to start something with me....hence my aggravation in my first post. Unfortunately I don't have anything in writing.....but I am going to attempt to get an email addy and see if I can get some clarification from the fire marshall.
You are the Master Teacher. You are the one with so much experience. You are the one who Mentors.

Why on earth would you believe that I'm "starting" something with you when I'm asking you a concrete question about the licensing and regulations you are abiding by in your State that YOU brought up? You would think you have fielded litterally THOUSANDS of these kinds of questions in your work as teacher, evaluator, and mentor.

You back up your positions with your education and experience. A simple California code question is aggrivating? What?
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MarinaVanessa 12:40 PM 06-17-2010
Originally Posted by nannyde:

Why on earth would you believe that I'm "starting" something with you when I'm asking you a concrete question about the licensing and regulations you are abiding by in your State that YOU brought up?
Not taking sides here but I'm just going out on a limb here by saying that it's probably because of past posts and also because the subject about how licensing regulations (in CA at least) can vary from county to county and are open to interpretation by local licensing agencies in that particular area have already been discussed. Just a reminder that just because they aren't posted or printed in CA the local agency office interprets them the way they want and we have to follow it. If we get cited we can fight it but licensing is the judge, juror and executioner so you can take a guess as to who would win lol.

Take me as an example, I'm a small DC (6 max) and I can have my doors locked if I wanted to. But I know another provider in another area that is managed by a different licensing office that can't have her doors locked because in the case of an evacuation she and the kids need to get out quickly and she's a small DC also. She got around it by installing doorknobs on her front door that automatically lock on the outside but stay unlocked on the inside. None of it is printed apparently but that's what licensing in her area says.

Back to the original topic:
It bother's me also when people don't at least knock before coming in so I also have my front door locked in the morning. If you are allowed to do that then I would deffinetely do it. I guess not knocking before entering to me is a lot like a guest opening my fridge without asking to get something to drink. It's not like i'm going to say no, I just like the common courtesy.

As for the car running thing, I would deffinetely have that new policy. I also have one that says that at no time will a car be left running without an adult in the car to supervise it. Anything can happen, you just never know. I even have one that's more specific that says that a parent must walk out with their child and be in complete control. If the child is running around all over my front yard while the parent is wildly chasing after them I'd be peeved.
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Crystal 03:00 PM 06-17-2010
Originally Posted by nannyde:
You are the Master Teacher. You are the one with so much experience. You are the one who Mentors.

Why on earth would you believe that I'm "starting" something with you when I'm asking you a concrete question about the licensing and regulations you are abiding by in your State that YOU brought up? You would think you have fielded litterally THOUSANDS of these kinds of questions in your work as teacher, evaluator, and mentor.

You back up your positions with your education and experience. A simple California code question is aggrivating? What?
I do not mind the question, and I do not mind answering it - when it comes from someone who genuinely wants to know, or needs to know.....but I do have an issue with it when it comes from a person who challenges nearly everything I say.

I found the "ignore" button, and have decided to use it.
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Crystal 03:01 PM 06-17-2010
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
Not taking sides here but I'm just going out on a limb here by saying that it's probably because of past posts and also because the subject about how licensing regulations (in CA at least) can vary from county to county and are open to interpretation by local licensing agencies in that particular area have already been discussed. Just a reminder that just because they aren't posted or printed in CA the local agency office interprets them the way they want and we have to follow it. If we get cited we can fight it but licensing is the judge, juror and executioner so you can take a guess as to who would win lol.

Take me as an example, I'm a small DC (6 max) and I can have my doors locked if I wanted to. But I know another provider in another area that is managed by a different licensing office that can't have her doors locked because in the case of an evacuation she and the kids need to get out quickly and she's a small DC also. She got around it by installing doorknobs on her front door that automatically lock on the outside but stay unlocked on the inside. None of it is printed apparently but that's what licensing in her area says.
.
Thank you. You are EXACTLY right.
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misol 06:48 PM 06-17-2010
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
I even have one that's more specific that says that a parent must walk out with their child and be in complete control. If the child is running around all over my front yard while the parent is wildly chasing after them I'd be peeved.
How do you/would you enforce this?

This happens every single day at pickup with my one dcb. Rain or shine his mom has to chase him through my yard or up and down the sidewalk. She begs and pleads with him not to make her chase him. 9 times out of 10 she gives up and just gets in the car, starts the ignition, and pretends that she's about to leave him. That usuallly makes him come running. Today he ran through my garden and stepped on my tomato plants. I was furious!
No clue why she just doesn't take dcb out first by the hand, strap him in the carseat, and then come back to get the baby. I guess that would be too easy.
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nannyde 06:50 PM 06-17-2010
Originally Posted by Crystal:
I do not mind the question, and I do not mind answering it - when it comes from someone who genuinely wants to know, or needs to know.....but I do have an issue with it when it comes from a person who challenges nearly everything I say.

I found the "ignore" button, and have decided to use it.
I'm "challenging" you because I haven't heard of any State requiring providers to physcially keep their doors unlocked. I have heard many unique State requirements over the years and I'm ALWAYS interested in ones that specfically put us at risk for the "greater good". I'm also interested in Codes that speak to the safety of the children but in reality have a unintended consequence of trampling on the individual providers personal/famlial obligations.

Requiring doors to be left unlocked for the extremely rare probability of a fire seems drastic compared to the real possibility that a child could get out or someone will ill intent should get in. Also, the privacy of the family as a whole is comprimised for the sake of a highly unlikly event such as a fire.

This is "my" educated and experienced concern over these types of regulations. You stated they exist and I'm asking you specifically what part of your Code speaks to this. If your State requires you to have a county or city fire inspection for your license than the next obvious question is.... what is your States fire code and where in their Code do they require home providers with a large group license to physically keep their doors unlocked? Has this been given to you in writing or just verbally from your inspector? To your knowledge has this requirement been brought to your State Licensing Agency?

When my State attempts to implement these kinds of regulations we look to other States for guidance on how to work with the DHS to make the regs workable. We recently did this for regs for overnight care. Our DHS decided they would require an adult to be up watching the kids any time there were kids in the house. This would have dramatically changed the face of overnight care here and would have been extremely costly. I worked with the Union to study the regulations from other States and the Union was able to lobby the DHS to reconsider based on other States managing of this issue. The Union was able to secure regulations that did not require an adult to be up when children were sleeping.

It IS important to know what other States require, who administers the requirements, and if there have been unintended consequences affecting the livlihood of the provider.
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Former Teacher 07:10 PM 06-17-2010
[quote=MarinaVanessa;32995]Take me as an example, I'm a small DC (6 max) and I can have my doors locked if I wanted to. But I know another provider in another area that is managed by a different licensing office that can't have her doors locked because in the case of an evacuation she and the kids need to get out quickly and she's a small DC also. She got around it by installing doorknobs on her front door that automatically lock on the outside but stay unlocked on the inside. None of it is printed apparently but that's what licensing in her area says.QUOTE]

So VERY true! We had one rep for years (the gem that I have spoken about) and we had to do things HER way. She got transferred and another fool came and told us we had to do ANOTHER way. Then yet another fool came along and didn't really do his job. He just wanted to come in, do head counts, and leave. Then we got another fool who wanted it done HER way. AND THEN we got fool 1 back who was FURIOUS because we changed things.

Long story short by the time we got the gem of a rep back, it was time for the rep to retire and I had already put in my 2 weeks notice
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fctjc1979 07:52 PM 06-17-2010
Originally Posted by nannyde:
I'm "challenging" you because I haven't heard of any State requiring providers to physcially keep their doors unlocked. I have heard many unique State requirements over the years and I'm ALWAYS interested in ones that specfically put us at risk for the "greater good". I'm also interested in Codes that speak to the safety of the children but in reality have a unintended consequence of trampling on the individual providers personal/famlial obligations.

Requiring doors to be left unlocked for the extremely rare probability of a fire seems drastic compared to the real possibility that a child could get out or someone will ill intent should get in. Also, the privacy of the family as a whole is comprimised for the sake of a highly unlikly event such as a fire.

This is "my" educated and experienced concern over these types of regulations. You stated they exist and I'm asking you specifically what part of your Code speaks to this. If your State requires you to have a county or city fire inspection for your license than the next obvious question is.... what is your States fire code and where in their Code do they require home providers with a large group license to physically keep their doors unlocked? Has this been given to you in writing or just verbally from your inspector? To your knowledge has this requirement been brought to your State Licensing Agency?

When my State attempts to implement these kinds of regulations we look to other States for guidance on how to work with the DHS to make the regs workable. We recently did this for regs for overnight care. Our DHS decided they would require an adult to be up watching the kids any time there were kids in the house. This would have dramatically changed the face of overnight care here and would have been extremely costly. I worked with the Union to study the regulations from other States and the Union was able to lobby the DHS to reconsider based on other States managing of this issue. The Union was able to secure regulations that did not require an adult to be up when children were sleeping.

It IS important to know what other States require, who administers the requirements, and if there have been unintended consequences affecting the livlihood of the provider.
It does seem to me that there should be much more concern for the very real possibility of a someone other than a parent just walking in or a kid walking out if the doors are unlocked than the unlikely (though still possible) event of a housefire if the doors are locked. But then, I'm highly security conscious and can get paranoid unless I know the door is locked. I'm biased on this because my husband is often gone weeks at a time because of military service and I get nervous about there being no man in the house - not so much during the day, but at night. I'm a chronic lock checker - again not so much during the day, but at night.
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momofboys 05:31 AM 06-18-2010
To be honest if I was the parent & had my child in someone else's home for care I would think safety from the outside world to me would trump my desire to have instant access to my kids. After all if I picked this person to care for my child/ren & I obvioulsy have a high amount of trust in them that they will be caring for my child properly. I would rather them lock the doors but that is my opinion. I know when I used to WOH when my kids were much younger the HDCP that we used did not lock her doors during the day, she did have them locked in the morning. I didn't really like it b/c many times when I picked up I just walked into the home & the mom never seemed to be aware that I was there. I could go in the playroom & get my child before she even saw me. I always thought if it was that easy for me to do it, anyone could just wander in & do what they want.
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Vesta 05:55 AM 06-18-2010
I'm too much of a control freak to leave my door unlocked.
If someone wants in my house, I will let them in.
It's unfortunate in more ways than one, but the neighborhood I live next to is declining rapidly. Too many people walking around during the middle of the day.... it would be pretty a pretty ballsy thing to go into someone's house during the middle of the day, but meth is a terrible drug.

If parents are upset or suspicious about what is happening during the 10 to 15 seconds it takes me to get to the door, they shouldn't be leaving their child with me for the other 10 hours of the day.

Besides, I need a chance to let them out of the cage and peel the duct tape of the kid's mouth before their parents catch me in all my misdeeds.
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Daycare Mommy 06:22 AM 06-18-2010
Originally Posted by Vesta:
I'm too much of a control freak to leave my door unlocked.
If someone wants in my house, I will let them in.
It's unfortunate in more ways than one, but the neighborhood I live next to is declining rapidly. Too many people walking around during the middle of the day.... it would be pretty a pretty ballsy thing to go into someone's house during the middle of the day, but meth is a terrible drug.

If parents are upset or suspicious about what is happening during the 10 to 15 seconds it takes me to get to the door, they shouldn't be leaving their child with me for the other 10 hours of the day.

Besides, I need a chance to let them out of the cage and peel the duct tape of the kid's mouth before their parents catch me in all my misdeeds.
ITA! I live in a nice neighborhood, but I don't let that give me a false sense of security. Criminals don't only commit crimes on their own street or even in their own town, city, or state for that matter. There was a home invasion in an even nicer neighborhood than mine just up the street from me not 6 months ago. Middle of the day, mom and kids in the house. Sure if someone really wants in they'll bust the door in, but at least then I'm cutting out the wandering drunks and druggies, or people looking for an easy quiet robbery by just walking into a house with unlocked doors. Even for the people that force their way in I may have a few seconds as they are having to break in, to run out the back with the kids. My doors are and will always be locked for safety!
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MarinaVanessa 07:59 AM 06-18-2010
Originally Posted by misol:
How do you/would you enforce this?
Honestly, if a parent has this little control of their child I usually do the akward silence and stare thing. It comes naturally to me I suppose because I tend to do it alot. I guess I'm one of those people that can't hide my emotions well and it's a huge shock to me when a parent doesn't have complete control. I mean I know it happens but it shouldn't happen everyday. I stand at my doorstep and just openly gawk and the whole ordeal with a face that shows that I'm not amused. The parent will usually see me standing there staring at their inability to take control and try harder (usually because of embarrassment). That's when they start raising their voices and get angry and become firm.

If they don't I let it continue a few moments and then just step in (especially if they were strampling all over my plants!! ). I've never had a child run from me (knock on wood) and they usually will immediately stop at the sound of my voice. I just walk over to them and talk to them in a firm voice (don't acknowledge the parent at all) and tell them that they are still at my house and that this behavior is unacceptible and dangerous. I will literally tell them that their parent may allow this kind of behavior in their home but it is not allowed in mine and they'll have to wait until they get home to do it. This may make parents a little angry or even more embarrassed but really... who is allowing the behavior? The parent. Sometimes they just need a little push. I find that after making a comment like that in front of the parent they tend to be more strict and firm.

Then if the behavior continues still I just give the parent a written note and discuss with them that they will from then on need to hold their child's hand or pick their child up and carry them (even if they're six) to and from their cars at drop-off and pick-up. I love it when it gets to this point and they have someone else pick their kid up and I have to explain the process to that person. They give me a wierd look but will still do it and I could only imagine the chagrin of the parent having to explain the why of it all to their relative or friend lol.
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mamamissy23 08:17 PM 06-25-2010
In the county in FL where I live and all the surrounding counties all daycares home or centers must have locked doors. Most of the centers around have doors with codes on them, some u have to ring a doorbell or knock. But I would never put my child somewhere where the door remains unlocked throughout the day. No way. Anyone could come in and do harm. Its just one thing that I dont have to worry about during the day with the kids.
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misol 12:59 PM 06-26-2010
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
Honestly, if a parent has this little control of their child I usually do the akward silence and stare thing. It comes naturally to me I suppose because I tend to do it alot. I guess I'm one of those people that can't hide my emotions well and it's a huge shock to me when a parent doesn't have complete control. I mean I know it happens but it shouldn't happen everyday. I stand at my doorstep and just openly gawk and the whole ordeal with a face that shows that I'm not amused. The parent will usually see me standing there staring at their inability to take control and try harder (usually because of embarrassment). That's when they start raising their voices and get angry and become firm.

If they don't I let it continue a few moments and then just step in (especially if they were strampling all over my plants!! ). I've never had a child run from me (knock on wood) and they usually will immediately stop at the sound of my voice. I just walk over to them and talk to them in a firm voice (don't acknowledge the parent at all) and tell them that they are still at my house and that this behavior is unacceptible and dangerous. I will literally tell them that their parent may allow this kind of behavior in their home but it is not allowed in mine and they'll have to wait until they get home to do it. This may make parents a little angry or even more embarrassed but really... who is allowing the behavior? The parent. Sometimes they just need a little push. I find that after making a comment like that in front of the parent they tend to be more strict and firm.

Then if the behavior continues still I just give the parent a written note and discuss with them that they will from then on need to hold their child's hand or pick their child up and carry them (even if they're six) to and from their cars at drop-off and pick-up. I love it when it gets to this point and they have someone else pick their kid up and I have to explain the process to that person. They give me a wierd look but will still do it and I could only imagine the chagrin of the parent having to explain the why of it all to their relative or friend lol.
I'll try the silent stare thing and see how that goes. I did finally step in when he trampled my plants. I said "OK, that's enough dcb! You are stepping in my garden and ruining my plants. Your mom said that she is ready so it's time to go now". I took him by the arm and was dragging him toward the car. Then he made his whole body go limp so I let him go and left him laying on the sidewalk for mom to deal with and I went back inside. Usually as soon as they get outside my front door I close it immediately so I don't have to witness the madness. But this particular day my own kids were in the doorway saying goodbye so we all saw him carrying on.
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professionalmom 01:37 PM 06-26-2010
Originally Posted by misol:
I'll try the silent stare thing and see how that goes. I did finally step in when he trampled my plants. I said "OK, that's enough dcb! You are stepping in my garden and ruining my plants. Your mom said that she is ready so it's time to go now". I took him by the arm and was dragging him toward the car. Then he made his whole body go limp so I let him go and left him laying on the sidewalk for mom to deal with and I went back inside. Usually as soon as they get outside my front door I close it immediately so I don't have to witness the madness. But this particular day my own kids were in the doorway saying goodbye so we all saw him carrying on.
I have a question about parents that have lost control of their 2-5 year old children. If you can't get them to obey you in minor situations like this and you have lost control, what will you do when the child becomes a rebellious teen who's bigger and stronger than you? After all, when they are still this small, you just pick them up and carry them to where you need for them to go. You are bigger and stronger. No anger. No roughness. No hostility. Just pick them up and go. Quick and simple. You don't need to talk to them and convince them to comply. Just pick them up and carry on. Will they kick and scream? You BET! They are testing you and they have little to no impulse control. But you are teaching them that they will not always get their way and that you cannot negotiate everything in life. Milk cost $2.83 (or whatever). Period. You can't argue that. The boss expects you at 8:00, not 8:01. Period. It's non-negotiable. That's a part of life. We all have to do things we don't like, but you suck it up and do it. Why is it that so many people think that teaching that to children from an early age is so horrible? I think it just prepares them for the real world.
I'm not trying to start something on here. I just find it odd that I had one parent like this and he (DCD) just shrugged his defeat (toward me) because his 2 yr old son didn't agree with dad. Just pick him up and go. How hard is that?
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momma2girls 02:20 PM 06-26-2010
Originally Posted by professionalmom:
I have a question about parents that have lost control of their 2-5 year old children. If you can't get them to obey you in minor situations like this and you have lost control, what will you do when the child becomes a rebellious teen who's bigger and stronger than you? After all, when they are still this small, you just pick them up and carry them to where you need for them to go. You are bigger and stronger. No anger. No roughness. No hostility. Just pick them up and go. Quick and simple. You don't need to talk to them and convince them to comply. Just pick them up and carry on. Will they kick and scream? You BET! They are testing you and they have little to no impulse control. But you are teaching them that they will not always get their way and that you cannot negotiate everything in life. Milk cost $2.83 (or whatever). Period. You can't argue that. The boss expects you at 8:00, not 8:01. Period. It's non-negotiable. That's a part of life. We all have to do things we don't like, but you suck it up and do it. Why is it that so many people think that teaching that to children from an early age is so horrible? I think it just prepares them for the real world.
I'm not trying to start something on here. I just find it odd that I had one parent like this and he (DCD) just shrugged his defeat (toward me) because his 2 yr old son didn't agree with dad. Just pick him up and go. How hard is that?
I totally agree with you!! I once had a 4 yr. old boy, only had about 6 months til grandparents returned in the Spring- there were countless times, where he didn't have a nap, because of preschool 3 days a week, and he would be terrible towards mom at pick up, he ran all around the house, until I told him to stop, we do not do this, he would kick his Mom , hit her, etc. etc.... UGH!!!! These days pickups would drag out sometimes 10 min. or longer. Please just pick up your 4 yr. old and go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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MarinaVanessa 02:24 PM 06-26-2010
Originally Posted by misol:
How do you/would you enforce this?
I just have discussions with the parent about responsibility and how it's theirs to keep them safe. If they say that they can't or have trouble controling their kids then I tell them that they need to hold their child's hand or carry their child out to the car. If they don't want to then I remind them again and add that they must if they want to continue to come here (mention this to the child also).

My fiance told me about a case they were trying about a prego woman and how she had her sons hand but he wiggled away and ran into the street and he was hit by a car and died. Not only did she have to grieve for her son but she was also held and charged for being responsible for the death of her child. Judge said it was her responsibility as a parent to keep him under control and safe. I just know that I wouldn't want that hanging over my head whether it's a DC kid or one of my own. I sometimes tell this story to the parents that have trouble restraining their children.

In the case of the flowers I had a DC boy (no longer here for other reasons) that stomped on my flowers in front and she did nothing. I was PO'd. I gave her a written notice with my policy that reads that if I incur any charges from HOA by any family that they are responsible for paying it. I never did get one but it was enough to scare her into walking him up by the hand everyday. In your case I would add a policy about intentional damages (I also have one ) and charge them if you needed to replant some or some flowers died or something. Or just say "Next time it happens ..." Most parents don't want to pay extra for anything so maybe it will work.
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professionalmom 04:05 PM 06-26-2010
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
Judge said it was her responsibility as a parent to keep him under control and safe.
Exactly. You have 2 choices: step up and be your child's parent OR risk losing your child to death or prison (just so you can be his/her friend and have him/her LIKE you). I can promise anyone and everyone, judges are not going to worry about hurting your feelings (or your child's) and they will not be swayed if you (or the child) kick and scream. Personally, I would rather pick up my screaming, tantruming (is that a word?) DD and calmly removed her from the place I don't want her to be and teach her that I am mom and I AM the boss, when I say no I mean no, and I DO mean business. I would rather teach her this respect than make a judge have to teach her later or teach me because I failed to BE a parent to her.

This quote really drives it home. The Judge said it was HER (not someone else's) RESPONSIBILITY (not right, not choice, her DUTY, her OBLIGATION) as a parent to KEEP HIM UNDER CONTROL (not his fault, not his choice, he is not responsible for controlling himself, SHE has to CONTROL HIM) and SAFE (by controlling your child, you can keep him/her safe, control = safe, lack of control = unsafe).
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QualiTcare 04:48 PM 06-26-2010
Originally Posted by professionalmom:
I have a question about parents that have lost control of their 2-5 year old children. If you can't get them to obey you in minor situations like this and you have lost control, what will you do when the child becomes a rebellious teen who's bigger and stronger than you? After all, when they are still this small, you just pick them up and carry them to where you need for them to go. You are bigger and stronger. No anger. No roughness. No hostility. Just pick them up and go. Quick and simple. You don't need to talk to them and convince them to comply. Just pick them up and carry on. Will they kick and scream? You BET! They are testing you and they have little to no impulse control. But you are teaching them that they will not always get their way and that you cannot negotiate everything in life. Milk cost $2.83 (or whatever). Period. You can't argue that. The boss expects you at 8:00, not 8:01. Period. It's non-negotiable. That's a part of life. We all have to do things we don't like, but you suck it up and do it. Why is it that so many people think that teaching that to children from an early age is so horrible? I think it just prepares them for the real world.
I'm not trying to start something on here. I just find it odd that I had one parent like this and he (DCD) just shrugged his defeat (toward me) because his 2 yr old son didn't agree with dad. Just pick him up and go. How hard is that?
i've never picked mine up - they'd like that too much. out in public, i'd just say, "bye," and keep on walking - that always worked 100% of the time. if they're outside and don't come when i call, i say, "okay. i'm locking the door. bye!" and they come running. you'd think i've ACTUALLY left them somewhere before if you see the way they come running.
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MarinaVanessa 09:58 PM 06-26-2010
Originally Posted by QualiTcare:
i've never picked mine up - they'd like that too much. out in public, i'd just say, "bye," and keep on walking - that always worked 100% of the time. if they're outside and don't come when i call, i say, "okay. i'm locking the door. bye!" and they come running. you'd think i've ACTUALLY left them somewhere before if you see the way they come running.
I have to admit that I've done this in stores . I don't know that I'd do this outdoors but when I did it in the store to my own child she never walked/ran away from me again. She's very curious and active and likes to go between the clothes racks etc which is a total peeve of mine. I have a saying (yes another one) "If I can't see you, you're too far". Solution= I waited until she wasn't looking and hid from her. I had a constant visual on her and I followed her for a few aisles while she asked for "Mommy" while curious customers gave me the evil eye as I stalked her through the store. She didn't cry (she's fearless) but she had begun to get panicked (remember she's 5) and I stood up and acted like I was looking at clothes and let her notice me and Oh hell she ran over and grabbed my leg and didn't let go the rest of the shopping trip. Problem solved. She doesn't get more than 5 feet away from me. Again, I don't know that I'd do it in the outdoors but if parents want to try it great. Just don't do it at my house.
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QualiTcare 11:00 PM 06-26-2010
i don't know what you mean when you say you wouldn't try it in the outdoors.

what i meant was when i'm standing in my doorway and telling my OWN children to come inside and they don't want to, i TELL them i'm shutting the door and locking it.

maybe you mean you wouldn't do it cus it's mean? i dunno. i wouldn't REALLY lock them out of the house, but the threat of locking the door brings them running. well, actually, i probably would shut the door and let them knock for a minute if they didn't obey, but i haven't had to.

it's the same concept....telling them bye and keeping on walking and telling them if they don't come in you're locking the door. maybe i'm misunderstanding?
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Tags:bad parent, locked doors
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