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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>What Do You Think About The J. Crew Ad?
Hunni Bee 04:38 AM 04-13-2011
This morning on the Today Show, they did a story on a particular ad by J. Crew that is stirring up a lot controversy. The ad shows a mom painting her 5-year-old son's toenails neon pink. The mom and the boy are both laughing and seem happy... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/ar...-children.html

Today had the mom that started the "Princess Boy" movement, in which some parents and psychologists are encouraging parents who have boys who want to dress and act "like girls" to allow them to and be accepting.

I KNOW this is a hot button issue, but I really want to know what other people think. Do you think we should encourage boys (and girls) to bend gender roles? Do you think if we do, it will cause problems later in their lives or cause them to targeted by bullies?

I allow my dck's to dress up and pretend to be anything they want (unless its offensive or really not appropriate). If boys want to wear girl stuff, I let them. And vice versa for girls. I have an extremely short haircut (like a man's), and I often use it as an example. Most of the them are aware of their gender and the roles that society has placed on it, and put on other-gendered clothing usually as a joke.

But, I do have one dcb who ALWAYS picks out skirts, pocketbooks, and heels to put on, and loves to play with the play vacuums, etc. He picks out pink anytime there's a choice of colors for something. This boy is also having some issues with inappropriate touching of other boys, showing his genitals, etc...

Im on the fence....
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SilverSabre25 04:48 AM 04-13-2011
I didn't see the ad and I don't watch the Today show, but I do have to say that while I don't see a point to encouraging the bending of gender roles, I have no problem with supporting or at least not discouraging the bending of gender roles.

Gender is a socially constructed concept anyway. There are many little boys who like pink and who enjoy having their toenails and fingernails painted when their mom does her nails. Even the most masculine "all boy" types often like this stuff as 2, 3, 4, year olds--my nephew is one of them. I think he still gets his nails painted every now and then and he's 7!

I have several boys right now, and they all fight over the dress up heels, love the purses, and enjoy playing in the play kitchen. One dcb keeps fighting over the pink cups and plates at lunch (because my DD makes a big deal out of it, but still) and that is also the one who gets annoyed when she wears dresses because he wants her to share the "princess dress" (note I am NOT talking about the dress-up dresses...but he doesn't get the distinction, lol).

The idea of pink being a "girly" color is socially constructed and relatively modern, anyway. The idea of dresses being a no-no for boys of any age is also relatively new and modern--go back a hundred years or so and all kids wore what amounted to dresses until they were two or three (ever read the Anne of Green Gables book where she has her son? They mention it there. Or look at really old photographs and wonder why your grandfather is wearing a dress?).

Furthermore, with playing with dolls and vacuums and other "girl" toys--well, there's nothing inherently "girly" about that stuff--again, we're looking at a socially constructed idea that these things are for women only and boys should have no part in them. If we want our little boys to grow into nurturing, caring, loving, family men who help their wives around the house and are willing to get up with the babies, then we can start teaching them from childhood that it's okay to play those roles in life.
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ninosqueridos 04:48 AM 04-13-2011
I did see the picture on the today show although I wasn't listening to the report. J Crew is trying to sell clothes. How that ad fits into that is beyond me.

I'm all for allowing the boys to explore the princess clothes and dance like ballerinas, but the painting of toenails is taking it a bit too far. My DCDs I'm sure would not approve of that type of pretend playing with their sons.
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countrymom 05:07 AM 04-13-2011
omg, I have some dads that would freak if they knew what their boys were doing here. I have no problem with dressing or wearing girls stuff. The boys love spa days too. Now I'm not sure about painting the nails pink, but I see no problem painting the boys nails with clear nailpolish. My ds will have his toes done in clear because he has 3 sisters, what am I suppose to do (oh and ds is 8)
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nannyde 05:12 AM 04-13-2011
I don't have dress up clothes.

I don't see ANY difference in boys play and girls play. They are the same. They play with all the toys sets equally and the same.

If a stranger came in and wasn't able to see their faces or hair they would not be able to tell which kids were boys and which ones were girls by their play.
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KEG123 05:19 AM 04-13-2011
I painted my sons pointer finger blue a couple weeks ago. He saw mommy doing and and said "Blue fingers!!" so I painted one nail. He loved it. I wouldn't ever do pink, and I don't know if I could ever do "all" his nails unless he could specifically ask.
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nannyde 05:22 AM 04-13-2011
See if this attachment works.

Two girls... one boy.
Attached: 107.jpg (86.1 KB) 
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KEG123 05:26 AM 04-13-2011
lol great picture Nan!
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WImom 05:40 AM 04-13-2011
I have a dc boy that's 2.5 that comes in with painted nails all the time. When ever his sister gets hers done he wants them. I don't see anything wrong with it. I think he always has yellow polish.
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nannyde 05:46 AM 04-13-2011
Originally Posted by KEG123:
lol great picture Nan!
The little dude calls the nail polish color: Buzz Blue
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MarinaVanessa 05:51 AM 04-13-2011
My opinion is that I don't see a difference in letting boys play "girl" things and girls play "boys" things. It's just a generalization and I mean, come one people. If we let society tell us what our "proper gender roles" are or what is proper for our gender aren't we moving backwards here? I mean really? Should women stop working and go back to the kitchen? Should stay at home dads give that up and go back to the workforce? It's nail polish people.

And let's not forget that debate about whether boys should be allowed to play with "girl" toys like dolls. It went on forever and it ended up that research showed that letting them play with dolls in the end made them better, nurturing fathers. Remember that? I'm really not trying to step on anybody's toes here but I heavily think that America has become overly sensistive over pretty much anything. Our nation is such a drama queen .

Oh and I'm sure a lot of us don't remember (because none of us were born yet) but in the Victorian era blue was considered a very feminine and soft color and pink was considered a dominant, strong color. Little girls wore blue and boys wore pink back then. Later when people starting switching the colors around they had a cow back then too and low and behold the colors were switched anyway.

I know that the issue is about pink nail polish on a boy but my guess is that if the mom were painting her sons toes blue (or any other color besides maybe red for that matter) that people wouldn't really have a problem with it. It has raised eyebrows because the color pink was used. But really, it's just a color.
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Evansmom 06:12 AM 04-13-2011
I've never had a problem with it either way. We encourage girls all the time to do things that were once considered "boy" or "man" things. I mean, look back and before WWII women were expected to stay at home and NOT work and NOT wear pants/slacks/shorts and NOT cut their hair short. If a woman did work she was generally only accepted to be a nurse or a teacher and that's all. So think about how you would feel if we still imposed those social limits on all of us and our daughters. Many of us don't agree with setting limitations on our daughters. Women can now hold any job they want to including things that used to be considered only for men such as doctors, scientists, architects, and government jobs and they can wear pants and have short hair cuts while they do it.

So flip the coin. Is it fair or right to limit our sons to only doing what is for "boys"?

Personally I don't think so. And I have let my little 3yo son paint his toenails pink. He plays with only little girls in my daycare right now so he knows no different. But he also can hit a baseball like I've never seen for someone so small. It's a balance. We are all human before we are man or woman.
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Lucy 07:25 AM 04-13-2011
The so-called "controversy" really angers me. If a kid wants to paint their nails pink, blue, purple, red, black, green, or clear... WHO CARES!!! It's a color. It's not a statement of sexuality. Ugh. Live and let live. Practice tolerance. All that stuff. Grrrrrr. LOL. I don't care if boys want to play with dolls, or girls want to play with trucks. They're just trying things out. Exploring their options. I would NEVER steer them in a different direction. I have one dad who rolls his eyes and says "oh great" if he sees his son playing with dolls. One day I had Ellen on tv when this dad came, and he was like "oh great.... teach my kid about lesbians." I've known them for 7 years and it was said as teasing and he laughed after he said it, however, there was a lot of truth behind that teasing!! I know him well enough to know those were his real thoughts. It's a talk-show, dude. She doesn't preach lesbianism, nor do I. People just make me sick with their intolerance. Ok, I'm done!
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AfterSchoolMom 07:26 AM 04-13-2011
I don't think it makes a darn bit of difference, because when they get to elementary and middle school, they teach each other that certain things/activities are "boy" things and "girl" things whether we like it or not. I tried to encourage my own to play with whatever they were interested in. Now they're in school and inform me daily that they couldn't possibly drink out of the pink cup, etc.
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mickey2 07:52 AM 04-13-2011
I did things such as paint all of my 3 son's toenails/fingernails when they were really small because they saw mommy and they wanted it. They also watched me put on makeup and wanted that as well. So I let them! I personally see no problem letting them have fun.
My youngest son is 8 now and would NEVER want to wear nail polish or makeup as he knows this is something that girls do. My oldest boys are 27 and 23 are successful and married and they leave the makeup and nail polish for their wives now. It did none of them any harm. I just let them be little. It only last for a while.
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daycare 08:11 AM 04-13-2011
I have no issue with it at all.. I don't see things as gender specific. Well unless its a tampon...lol The only thing that I can think of..

I have a nephew that likes to wear pink shoes with flowers on them at age 4. I am happy that he likes to make his own decisions and I feel that it will make him a leader; standing by his decisions. I hope that he never gives in to "what the other kids are doing role"

I see nothing wrong with it at all and by saying that there is only teaches our children to judge or sterotype people who things that they do....

so Yes I love that ad
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dEHmom 08:21 AM 04-13-2011
I am too lazy to read the posts and check out the ad.

My 3 yo ds has silver nails right now :S lol. Work of his aunt.

Anyway, I struggle with my dh because he flips at anything well, not in his "norm".

just want to add, the same ds above, now has lipstick on because he went in my purse and put it on lol.

Anyways, I dont' discourage it, or see anything wrong with the boys playing with the girl things, dress up, etc and it's when they feel they have to hide it, that you start getting into serious problems. So I let them be free with it. It bothers me because if a girl was dressing up in the boys costumes or playign with the cars, it would never be questioned.

I do however, think that it is a problem if boys are being forced to play or dressup with girl toys.
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jojosmommy 10:41 AM 04-13-2011
I thought the whole thing was stupid. Who cares if the kids paints his toe nails?

I have a preschooler who REGULARLY paints his toe/fingernails. His dad is a police man and mom works on tv. A few weeks back some of the other kids brought it up and one boy (who has limited female role models in his life) was saying "hey cool dude!". Some other kids were saying "I dont think boys are supposed to paint their nails." I monitored the convo and let them handle it. The boy with the painted nails was very confident in explaining that he just liked it so his mom let him do it! I thought that was pretty cool. At 4 he didnt just go with what the other kids were saying, he was self confident and could clearly state why he had them done. Then he told the kids if they came over they could ask his mom to do theirs too! I think being comfortable with who you are and being able to stick up for what you think is right (even at 4) is much more important than if you fit a gender role.

FYI: my son (2yrs old) plays with his baby dolls more than his trains, sleeps with his baby Annagrace everynight and even obsesses over if she needs a clean diaper, new clothes etc. I figure he watches me do it 10 hours a day obviously he is learning what he lives. And yes both my hubs and I let him take Annagrace anywhere he wants- even if other people think "thats not what boys should be doing".
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daycare 12:47 PM 04-13-2011
Originally Posted by jojosmommy:
I thought the whole thing was stupid. Who cares if the kids paints his toe nails?

I have a preschooler who REGULARLY paints his toe/fingernails. His dad is a police man and mom works on tv. A few weeks back some of the other kids brought it up and one boy (who has limited female role models in his life) was saying "hey cool dude!". Some other kids were saying "I dont think boys are supposed to paint their nails." I monitored the convo and let them handle it. The boy with the painted nails was very confident in explaining that he just liked it so his mom let him do it! I thought that was pretty cool. At 4 he didnt just go with what the other kids were saying, he was self confident and could clearly state why he had them done. Then he told the kids if they came over they could ask his mom to do theirs too! I think being comfortable with who you are and being able to stick up for what you think is right (even at 4) is much more important than if you fit a gender role.

FYI: my son (2yrs old) plays with his baby dolls more than his trains, sleeps with his baby Annagrace everynight and even obsesses over if she needs a clean diaper, new clothes etc. I figure he watches me do it 10 hours a day obviously he is learning what he lives. And yes both my hubs and I let him take Annagrace anywhere he wants- even if other people think "thats not what boys should be doing".
that is so cute that your son has a baby doll. He is going to be a great BF, husband and father....so sweet
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Blackcat31 01:04 PM 04-13-2011
Okay here is a funny story about boys and dolls.....

One day we were shopping and my ds wanted this Ken Baywatch doll that went with the Barbie Baywatch doll that my dd had just gotten....my DH threw an all out fit because I bought it for him.

For weeks, my Dh wouldn't let it go that his son had a "Barbie" doll...didn't matter that it was Ken and not Barbie, he was mad.

A few months later, I noticed Ken laying in the bottom of my son's toybox. I asked him why it was there and if he didn't want Ken anymore. He said "Oh, I didn't want him anyways. I only wanted the jet-ski he had in the box."


My ds also played with a doll that was a boy doll called "my Buddy" when he was about 2 yrs old ....we let him and didn't say anything to him, but eventually we had to get rid of it because it reminded me of Chucky from those horror movies..... It looked like this:

http://www.dollinfo.com/mybud90s.htm
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pinkcrayonz 01:31 PM 04-13-2011
My 19 yr old manly son always wanted, and got his nails painted from the age 2 onward....yep even in later years he`d "let " cute girls paint his nails @ school...he played with barbies and dolls with his sister, dress up with his younger brother...he is now a dad and an AWESOME one, can change diapers, comfort his child when needed.....I think we need to chillax with all these Girl/ Boy only rules. I find that most kids don`t have these barriers we make maybe we should let them go.
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Hunni Bee 03:09 PM 04-13-2011
Thanks guys for your opinions.


I always felt colors were colors, and dress up is pretend play. So I let the kiddos use/have/like whatever colors they want and pretend to be whatever they want. All of my boys spend as much time in Housekeeping - cleaning, cooking, taking care of babies - as they do in the Block Area, playing with trucks. I don't tell the parents how their kids play because I don't want grown-ups telling kids how to play in my classroom - let them regulate their play and toys at home.

The reason I mentioned that dcb who picks "girl" items exclusively is because it occurs with other, unnatural problems (the touching of other boys, showing his privates, etc) and I think they may be related and coming from a problem at home

However, I do NOT like the "Princess Boy" mom, because I feel she is either pressuring or over-encouraging her son to be a girl for publicity or her own desires to have a daughter instead of a son...the whole thing doesn't seem like something a young child would have come up with.
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QualiTcare 03:54 PM 04-13-2011
my son would start throwing a fit wanting his nails painted when he was a toddler and saw me and/or my daughter painting ours. so, i would paint his nails. my husband didn't like it at ALL, but i pretty much told him "too bad."

the way i see it is you might as well let them get it out of their system. making it something "bad" that's not allowed is only going to make them more curious and want to do it even more when they're older.

the other thing i thought (and it was true) is that people would make comments to him - whether it be family or an old man at the grocery store.

not only did he stop wanting to wear nail polish, but when he was tested at preschool he knew every single color EXCEPT pink and purple. he couldn't name those colors. not very girly.
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Michael 04:08 PM 04-13-2011
My son wants nothing to do with the color pink!
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daycare 04:49 PM 04-13-2011
Originally Posted by Michael:
My son wants nothing to do with the color pink!
my son 15 does not......too bad for him people told him it was wrong or bad

however my 3.5 year old does not understand not to like it.
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Former Teacher 05:07 PM 04-13-2011
hmmm

One of life's most puzzling questions: why is it okay for a girl to wear blue but when a boy wears pink all hedoublehockeysticks breaks loose?

There was a father at my former center. He was/is a tough manly man. He had 1 pale pink work (dress) shirt (with the company logo). One day we were talking about this very subject and he suddenly announces really loud..HEY REAL MEN WEAR PINK!! It was a great moment!
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QualiTcare 07:01 PM 04-13-2011
Originally Posted by Michael:
My son wants nothing to do with the color pink!
hmm....i'm not even going to go there
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cillybean83 07:49 AM 04-14-2011
when my cousin was 2 and his sister was 4, he would make me do his makeup because i was doing his sisters, he wanted to be an equal, and get what she was getting, he's 16 now and all boy...who cares if kids want to play in makeup and nail polish?!
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Mrs.Ky 09:05 AM 04-14-2011
I dont see anything wrong with it my middle Son has been known to dance to his own beat lol. He use to wear girl dress up clothes, still plays baby dolls with his Sister, his favorite color is still pink, and he once wanted a pink butterfly painted on his face at a fall fest and I let him there is nothing wrong with it and he doesnt care what other people think. My hubby on the other hand has made comments like it will make him gay and I inform him nothing can make someone gay they are born that way and if he turns out gay I would still love him the same and welcome it.
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dEHmom 09:43 AM 04-14-2011
Originally Posted by Mrs.Ky:
I dont see anything wrong with it my middle Son has been known to dance to his own beat lol. He use to wear girl dress up clothes, still plays baby dolls with his Sister, his favorite color is still pink, and he once wanted a pink butterfly painted on his face at a fall fest and I let him there is nothing wrong with it and he doesnt care what other people think. My hubby on the other hand has made comments like it will make him gay and I inform him nothing can make someone gay they are born that way and if he turns out gay I would still love him the same and welcome it.
that exactly my dh's thinking. mine are too young yet to realize this stuff. one of my sons acts girly, runs girly, etc. dh thinks he is playing for wrong team, and when he makes fun of it, I give him heck. I said if it turns out so, one day i'll make him regret it. It scares me that dh would put that on a child, and if he decides at 15 yo that he is, he won't want to admit to us, because dh put such a stigma. Of course i hope it isn't that way, but i would 100% support him if that is the case.
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dEHmom 10:48 AM 04-14-2011
Originally Posted by QualiTcare:
hmm....i'm not even going to go there
I don't understand this comment.
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QualiTcare 05:23 AM 04-15-2011
Originally Posted by dEHmom:
I don't understand this comment.
i believe his son is 16 or 17.
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