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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Contracted Hours, Showing Up Late, But DC Still Open?
daycare 10:12 AM 06-02-2011
So I work on contracted hours. My daycare is open from 7:45-6:00.

I have one family that is contracted from 8:30-5:30 3 days week

This family all of a sudden has started coming late to pick up. The first time I waived the late fee, second time, I handed them a late fee slip.

They were very mad and their response was: "I don't see why i am getting a late fee, your DC is still open, there are kids still here and it's not like I am causing any harm."

My response was, that we have a contract and you have agreed to a certain time fame, based on what you are paying for DC. If you need to change your contract, please follow the PHB guidelines of asking for a contract change.

they have refused to pay me on 3 occasions and so today I will let them know that if the fees are not paid by tomorrow that the NO pay NO play clause will go into effect.

For those of you that work on contracted hours and have a similar situation, do you charge?
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youretooloud 10:14 AM 06-02-2011
If I am open, they can be here. I don't get upset unless they run past my work hours.

But, I have much shorter hours than you do, so I might feel differently if I were working longer hours.
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SilverSabre25 10:17 AM 06-02-2011
ugh, that's a sticky one and I'm curious to see others' answers. Personally, in my business, I'm not going to charge a late fee unless the late pick-up goes beyond my self-appointed (though totally not advertised!) "closing time" of 6 PM. That's about when my last dck is contracted to be gone by. I can see it being VERY hard to get a parent to pay a late fee when there are still kids there and you aren't actually closed. I've never actually had to charge a late fee though so I have no experience with it.

Good luck!
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laundrymom 10:18 AM 06-02-2011
Contracted care is just that. I charge for later than contracted pickups.
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Live and Learn 10:20 AM 06-02-2011
The reason I wouldn't want that to continue is that sometimes (not often) I might need to close a half hour early ....so the later pickups would be coming to get their kids by 5:30. This parent would be assuming they could stay until 6:00.

Also sometimes if we have a half hour between pickups we might walk around the block and we couldn't do that if we were waiting for a late parent.


Parents like me on time for drop off and I like them on time for pick up.
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momofboys 10:32 AM 06-02-2011
I would definitely charge something. Doesn't matter if you are still open.
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morgan24 10:44 AM 06-02-2011
I also do the contracted hours and charge the late fees if they come after their agreed pick up time. I don't charge if they ask me ahead of time. It doesn't matter to me if there are other kids here or not. That is none of their business what my contracted hours with others are, they agree to certain times and I expect them to stick to them.
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daycare 10:46 AM 06-02-2011
Originally Posted by morgan24:
I also do the contracted hours and charge the late fees if they come after their agreed pick up time. I don't charge if they ask me ahead of time. It doesn't matter to me if there are other kids here or not. That is none of their business what my contracted hours with others are, they agree to certain times and I expect them to stick to them.
I agree....my fees increase for pickup after 5:30 and if they want a later pick up then they are going to have to pay a higher rate.
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e.j. 10:48 AM 06-02-2011
Originally Posted by laundrymom:
Contracted care is just that. I charge for later than contracted pickups.
Same here. If someone calls me before they're late to ask if it's possible for me to watch their kids a little longer, I'll charge them at the regular rate. If they don't call me at all and just show up late, my late fees kick in. If they need a regular pick-up for 6:00, they should ask for a change in their contracted hours and pay for that extra half hour.
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daycare 10:52 AM 06-02-2011
Originally Posted by e.j.:
Same here. If someone calls me before they're late to ask if it's possible for me to watch their kids a little longer, I'll charge them at the regular rate. If they don't call me at all and just show up late, my late fees kick in. If they need a regular pick-up for 6:00, they should ask for a change in their contracted hours and pay for that extra half hour.
This is exactly what I do.... I also have in my PHB that regardless of notification or not, anyone that is more than 15 min late will be charged the late fee less 5 minutes
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PeanutsGalore 10:52 AM 06-02-2011
Stick to your guns! I contract 45 hours per week. If a parent consistently goes beyond these hours, I would handle it just like you did. It doesn't necessarily matter if they are great clients overall or not; they are paying for X amount of time and using X+Y. Not fair, and it sets a precedent for the future that they can smile, be nice, pay on time, and then ignore any other rule they feel like ignoring.

Have they been late picking up since you asked for late fees?
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MG&Lsmom 10:53 AM 06-02-2011
Originally Posted by Live and Learn:
The reason I wouldn't want that to continue is that sometimes (not often) I might need to close a half hour early ....so the later pickups would be coming to get their kids by 5:30. This parent would be assuming they could stay until 6:00.

Also sometimes if we have a half hour between pickups we might walk around the block and we couldn't do that if we were waiting for a late parent.


Parents like me on time for drop off and I like them on time for pick up.
This is exactly it. And they aren't respecting you by refusing to pay. You better believe if you were late to open they'd expect compensation.
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daycare 10:58 AM 06-02-2011
Originally Posted by PeanutsGalore:
Stick to your guns! I contract 45 hours per week. If a parent consistently goes beyond these hours, I would handle it just like you did. It doesn't necessarily matter if they are great clients overall or not; they are paying for X amount of time and using X+Y. Not fair, and it sets a precedent for the future that they can smile, be nice, pay on time, and then ignore any other rule they feel like ignoring.

Have they been late picking up since you asked for late fees?
Nope, not since I threw a late fee bill at them.....
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jojosmommy 11:00 AM 06-02-2011
If I am open AND they are not attending more than 10 hours per day then I don't charge them. I explain that kids don't need to be at daycare more than 10 hours per day, no matter what hours those are and if they want a different drop off/pick up time I can see if I can accommodate that and re-write their contract.

If you already charge extra for pick ups after 5:30 then I would explain to them that they will be charged for that late time too. Even on days they pick up early. Contracted time.

I would remind them that it is hard for kids to typically get picked up at X time and then get picked up later sometimes. Kids don't understand that. I would also say, "we were going to go on a walk or do such and such but since I didn't know when you were coming we couldn't" . I would try to make it sound like you were thinking of the kids first.
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daycare 11:05 AM 06-02-2011
Originally Posted by jojosmommy:
If I am open AND they are not attending more than 10 hours per day then I don't charge them. I explain that kids don't need to be at daycare more than 10 hours per day, no matter what hours those are and if they want a different drop off/pick up time I can see if I can accommodate that and re-write their contract.

If you already charge extra for pick ups after 5:30 then I would explain to them that they will be charged for that late time too. Even on days they pick up early. Contracted time.

I would remind them that it is hard for kids to typically get picked up at X time and then get picked up later sometimes. Kids don't understand that. I would also say, "we were going to go on a walk or do such and such but since I didn't know when you were coming we couldn't" . I would try to make it sound like you were thinking of the kids first.
I have a pretty consistent schedule of how I do things around here. At 5 pm I start clean up of the DC and the more kids I have the harder it is for me to get it done. I close at 6, this means all of daycare is closed and put away by 6. I don't have a janitor that comes in and cleans after the DC is closed, I am the janitor and I am not going to wait until 6 to clean things up. If I did that would mean that I would be working a 12+ hour day...
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Christian Mother 01:04 PM 06-02-2011
You have it all addressed here. Which gives me a really good point in making to my parents when they've gone past 15min of what they are allowed before there is a late fee assessed. I've never given one but I have been mad enough to almost go there. I don't like giving them but each of my parents signed a contract with there own hrs. Regardless of whether children are here or not. And I have told parents that yes, so and so is here and they will be paying a late fee just as you would if you are late. heheh!! That way they know no one is getting away with anything. But, I would stick firm to you policies. Refusal to pay late fees means no pay no play. I would remind them by either a call or email to explain this to them so they know the following week what is exspected of them.
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AmandasFCC 01:35 PM 06-02-2011
I tell them that hours contracted for a reason: I sometimes have children in the evenings who are scheduled AROUND other children's leaving times. Just because the daycare is still open for business does not mean you get to be here the entire time.
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Crystal 02:28 PM 06-02-2011
I allow parents to pick up late (up until my close time) IF they call and let me know they are running late. If they don't call, I would charge them. This policy has prevented any late pick ups in more than 14 years. My parents are never late because they respect that I am willing to help them when they are in a bind and they don't want to lose that privelege. They also don't take advanatge of my generousity and I can honestly say that in 14 years the "call that I'm going to be late" has only happened a handful of times.

My response to the parent who said you were still open anyway and kids were there would have been "You assumed that I still had children here, if they had happened to be picked up early, your tardiness would have caused me to work later than I was required to. Therefore, I am standing by decision to enforce the late fee that has been addressed in your contract. " My response to refusing to pay the late fees would have been a termination letter.....you let em' get away with disrepecting you like that, then you can trust that somewhere down the road it will happen again. I would NEVER allow a parent to walk on me like that.

I think you should enforce the late fee and the "no pay, no play" policy. If you don't stick by it, they'll take advantage again.
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wdmmom 03:24 PM 06-02-2011
Late fees go into effect the minute they are beyond their designated pick up time. Parents contract hours with me and they designate their drop off time and pick up time. Their rate is solely based on this so failure to comply results in additional fees.

I only allow a 10 hour maximum and when I've had their kid already here for 10 hours is enough! It's a pain for them to be here any longer regardless of whether other children are presently in my care or not. The children that are in my care until closing pay additional for that later pick up. You come when you say you will or you pay. Simple!
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nannyde 04:05 PM 06-02-2011
Originally Posted by daycare:
They were very mad and their response was: "I don't see why i am getting a late fee, your DC is still open, there are kids still here and it's not like I am causing any harm."
Answer: It's not like you are causing harm. It's that you aren't paying for it. The people that are here past X (their pick up time) are paying an extra ten dollars per day for that late pick up. If you want we can change your contract to an additional ten dollars per day and then you can pick up by X time.
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momma2girls 04:41 PM 06-02-2011
Originally Posted by daycare:
So I work on contracted hours. My daycare is open from 7:45-6:00.

I have one family that is contracted from 8:30-5:30 3 days week

This family all of a sudden has started coming late to pick up. The first time I waived the late fee, second time, I handed them a late fee slip.

They were very mad and their response was: "I don't see why i am getting a late fee, your DC is still open, there are kids still here and it's not like I am causing any harm."

My response was, that we have a contract and you have agreed to a certain time fame, based on what you are paying for DC. If you need to change your contract, please follow the PHB guidelines of asking for a contract change.

they have refused to pay me on 3 occasions and so today I will let them know that if the fees are not paid by tomorrow that the NO pay NO play clause will go into effect.

For those of you that work on contracted hours and have a similar situation, do you charge?
yep, my suggestion for you- is definately take out your open and closing times. Place in the contract- work contracted hrs. work and commute times only.
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daycare 04:47 PM 06-02-2011
I do have that in my contract. it states the exact times they are to use the DC
EX. 8:30am to 5:30 monday, wed and Friday. I dont state what the hours of operation are in the contract at all....
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momma2girls 07:36 PM 06-02-2011
Originally Posted by daycare:
I do have that in my contract. it states the exact times they are to use the DC
EX. 8:30am to 5:30 monday, wed and Friday. I dont state what the hours of operation are in the contract at all....
Then when they come later than their contracted times, they are considered late, and their late fees should start. They know what their contracted pick up and drop off times are. Good luck!!
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Crystal 07:59 PM 06-02-2011
Ask yourself, "why did I create these policies?" when you answer that question, you will know that you should charge the late fees. you will also know that any parent who questions those policies, shortly after having agreed to them, will continue to do so, UNLESS you enforce the policies from the get-go.
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momma2girls 06:20 AM 06-03-2011
Originally Posted by Crystal:
Ask yourself, "why did I create these policies?" when you answer that question, you will know that you should charge the late fees. you will also know that any parent who questions those policies, shortly after having agreed to them, will continue to do so, UNLESS you enforce the policies from the get-go.
Live and learn with daycare!!!
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daycare 06:35 AM 06-03-2011
The worst part about all of this is that this family has been here for 2.5 years.
This is way out of character for this family to act like this. I think there are so issues at home but would never ask.

I told DCD at pickup that I would not excuse their late fees and that just like DC fees I will charge late fees of $10.00 per day until all fees are paid in full. The DCD was mad, but rules are rules I told him.
DCM called last night to ask if she could pay the late fees on Monday. I said I will let you pay them on monday, but you guys need to refresh yourself with the rules and policies of the DC, it's been awhile since you read them.

You could tell she was mad. I then emailed her another copy of the PHB.
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countrymom 07:14 AM 06-03-2011
Originally Posted by momma2girls:
yep, my suggestion for you- is definately take out your open and closing times. Place in the contract- work contracted hrs. work and commute times only.
thank you, thats perfect working. But I'm only open from 7-5pm so how do I go about that. I get alot of "what time are you opened till" how do I answer that, and what happens when people ask me at interview time.
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wdmmom 07:20 AM 06-03-2011
Originally Posted by countrymom:
thank you, thats perfect working. But I'm only open from 7-5pm so how do I go about that. I get alot of "what time are you opened till" how do I answer that, and what happens when people ask me at interview time.
You tell them that you don't have set hours. You are open and available for current families for the contracted hours they need childcare. That way it eliminates anyone being beyond their designated pick up time.

Be the first one to ask..."What hours are you needing childcare?" and "Is that Monday through Friday?" If they tell you that they need care 730am to 445pm than you rate them based on 46.25 hours each week.

If they tell you they need 7am to 3pm you rate them based on a 40 hour week. (I give a small discount to families that pick up at or before 4pm...early departure discount.)

If they are there beyond 3pm pick up time, you need to have it set up that it's a $1.00 per minute late fee unless it's a pre-arranged later day. Parents want to play, they pay. Parents work over, you work over...they get paid, you get paid.
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daycare 07:23 AM 06-03-2011
This is what I have in my PHB

The ***X DC operates daily Monday through Friday from 7:45Am to 6:00 Pm. The hours that your child will care attend will be determined during your trial period, and agreed to in your contract. Pleas abide by the times set forth in your agreed contract.
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bice99 07:25 AM 06-03-2011
Originally Posted by countrymom:
thank you, thats perfect working. But I'm only open from 7-5pm so how do I go about that. I get alot of "what time are you opened till" how do I answer that, and what happens when people ask me at interview time.
I just updated my handbook and now it says that my rates are for up to 9 hours of care per day. I've always been open 7-5 and end up with the same problem you have. So now families have contracted hours for up to 9 hours. If they need that last hour, it's written into their contract with and extra $5/day included. If they just need it once in awhile, they have to request 24 hrs in advance, pay $5/hr and I can say, "no."
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momma2girls 07:31 AM 06-03-2011
Originally Posted by countrymom:
thank you, thats perfect working. But I'm only open from 7-5pm so how do I go about that. I get alot of "what time are you opened till" how do I answer that, and what happens when people ask me at interview time.
I took out my opening and pick up times a long time ago, in my contract. This is how it reads- I provide daycare for work and commute times only.
I ask everyone what hrs. will they be needing?
I once had a Father tell me over the phone, they are needing 7:30am-4:00
His mom was a teacher. I said this will work well. Then when he contracted with me, I made a copy for him here, and after they left I looked at it, and he wrote down til 5:00- I had to call him on it right away, and he resigned one immediately-
When families ask you -" well what time are you open?" I always reply back-"what times are you needing?" Then contract the hrs. they are needing only!!
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Symphony 07:36 AM 06-03-2011
I have one little guy that is here on a sporadic schedule, but when he is here it is long days. So the other families all see him when they drop off and pick up. The last month I started noticing one of my families wouldn't pick up at their normal time on the days he was here. I really think they would see the little guy here in the morning and think, "Great, she's working late, more time for us!"

I think you did the right thing standing up for yourself! I don't know why it is so hard to ask people to treat you with respect!
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daycare 08:06 AM 06-03-2011
So here we go again...
DCM emails me this morning and asked why she is being charged late fees for three days when they were only late 1 time and then once again goes into why are there other kids there that late. She was very rude about it.

SO I decided to show her.
My response was.

Dear ***
as you know, I use the sign in sign out book to track all hours used by each child/family. On X days you were late for a total of 45 minutes.
Each family attends DC on contraced hours just as your family does and each family is expected to abide by thier contracted hours.

Also, as you know, if you need longer hours, I can arrange that for you with an additional cost.

Currently your rate is 40.00 per day. If you take the amount of time that your child is here and then base it off of what i am paid, it breaks down to about $4.00 an hour or less. This is before taxes and overhead. When you take all of that into consideration I am making about $2.00 an hour. The longer you are here the more my rate goes down and I honestly don't know anyone who would be willing to work for wages that low and hope that you would not expect for me to do so.

Just as you expect me to be here on time for you when you need to go to work in the morning, I too expect for you to be on time when you pick up at the end of the day.

The late fees are not new, they have been in the PHB since the day you started. If you are not willing to pay these, please let me know.

Thanks
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countrymom 10:10 AM 06-03-2011
Originally Posted by momma2girls:
I took out my opening and pick up times a long time ago, in my contract. This is how it reads- I provide daycare for work and commute times only.
I ask everyone what hrs. will they be needing?
I once had a Father tell me over the phone, they are needing 7:30am-4:00
His mom was a teacher. I said this will work well. Then when he contracted with me, I made a copy for him here, and after they left I looked at it, and he wrote down til 5:00- I had to call him on it right away, and he resigned one immediately-
When families ask you -" well what time are you open?" I always reply back-"what times are you needing?" Then contract the hrs. they are needing only!!
ok thanks. Right now I have afterschool kids here till 630 (every other week) but they are past clients who came back to my town (great kids) but I have a feeling that some are wondering why they are still here.
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momofboys 10:19 AM 06-03-2011
Originally Posted by daycare:
So here we go again...
DCM emails me this morning and asked why she is being charged late fees for three days when they were only late 1 time and then once again goes into why are there other kids there that late. She was very rude about it.

SO I decided to show her.
My response was.

Dear ***
as you know, I use the sign in sign out book to track all hours used by each child/family. On X days you were late for a total of 45 minutes.
Each family attends DC on contraced hours just as your family does and each family is expected to abide by thier contracted hours.

Also, as you know, if you need longer hours, I can arrange that for you with an additional cost.

Currently your rate is 40.00 per day. If you take the amount of time that your child is here and then base it off of what i am paid, it breaks down to about $4.00 an hour or less. This is before taxes and overhead. When you take all of that into consideration I am making about $2.00 an hour. The longer you are here the more my rate goes down and I honestly don't know anyone who would be willing to work for wages that low and hope that you would not expect for me to do so.

Just as you expect me to be here on time for you when you need to go to work in the morning, I too expect for you to be on time when you pick up at the end of the day.

The late fees are not new, they have been in the PHB since the day you started. If you are not willing to pay these, please let me know.

Thanks
I'm curious to see how the DCM responds. I think you are doing the right thing but how do you plan to respond if the mom says she is unwilling to pay. . . is there a reason why you had written that?
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cillybean83 10:21 AM 06-03-2011
i'm open 6a-6p, but my contract states that parents can contract UP TO 10 hours during that 12 hr time frame. I have a parent that drops off at 6, and a parent that drops off at 8, so parent A starts accumulating fees at 4, whether parent Bs kids are still here or not, because parent B is PAYING for their kids to be here past 4, parent A is not, therefore, they need to compensate me for my time, and for caring for their child when they're late.
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daycare 10:27 AM 06-03-2011
Originally Posted by momofboys:
I'm curious to see how the DCM responds. I think you are doing the right thing but how do you plan to respond if the mom says she is unwilling to pay. . . is there a reason why you had written that?
Yes, becuase they said at first they were not going to pay it,.... then they said they were going to pay it and now it seems like they are going back to not wanting to pay it. If they decide that they don't want to pay it I am going to term them. I dont understand why all of a sudden they are showing up late, kids have always been here later than their child. I don't know why they also think that they are above the rules either...

So far I have not gotten a response back.... I also typed that last line giving them the option to not pay so I can term, as I am pretty upset about how they are treating me.
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Angelwings36 10:44 AM 06-03-2011
My hours of operation are from 7:30am - 5:15pm, however just because these are my hours doesn't mean if the parent asked for a 7:30am - 4:30pm that they are allowed to show up later than 4:30pm to pick up their child. However, I do allow parents to ask me if it's alright to keep the child a little later from time to time. If I have someone scheduled to pick up later I will allow, if not they are out of luck and have to come by their regular time. Lots of time all of my children are picked up at 4:30pm and I VERY much enjoy this. I have not charged a late fee to parents who show up later than their contracted hours, however, they get a firm talking to and made aware that it is not to happen again. I very rarely have a family come later than my 5:15pm closing time to pick up, however, if it happens hubby, my son and I will take the child outside and stand on the front lawn by the truck until the parents arrive. I normally say something like...we have an appointment and are just about late...then as soon as I hand the child off we jump into our vehicle and drive away...never happens with the same family more than once!
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SimpleMom 11:49 AM 06-03-2011
Yes, I would charge a late fee. It could even put me past my capacity. Happened one time. I called the parent and had them come pick up right away. Also, got a late fee. If they need use of all hours that I am open, then they have a fee based on those hours. No one uses a full day that I watch as of yet.
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Tags:contracted hours, enforcing policies - consistency, late fee
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