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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Field Trip Issues What To Do??
lvt77 11:42 AM 01-05-2011
My DC goes on FT once a week. Park, local library, farms, and places that pertain to our weekly lessons.
My policy states that parents who wish for their child not too participate in activities off of the premises are required to find alternative care for that day. At this time all of my kids participate in FT.
The issues are that one of the DCK has issues with listening and staying with the group. Often they will take off running away from all of us and putting themselves in danger. Like running into the street, or going into other unsafe places.(sometimes other kids will follow them) This happens every two minutes. Getting them to stay with the group or out safe is a huge issue.

I do have an asst. that helps me, but even they can't help control this child. I don't know what to do. Other parents have also been asking why we are not going to reading hour and other planned activities. I have had to bite my lip and tell them I was not properly staffed on those days and could not attend.....I have not even talked to the DCP about this, because I just don't know what.
My Asst. said that I should add to my policy that children with behavioral problems can lose the privilege of attending field trips and require the DCP to find alternative care....is this fair?

Uggh what should I do?? Any suggestions???
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kidkair 11:46 AM 01-05-2011
How old is the kid? Have you tried to leash him? I personally don't like leashing kids but if you are unwilling to exclude him you may have no other option.
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lvt77 12:06 PM 01-05-2011
I do not currently have any leashes, although I have thought about it. Can you suggest where I might be able to get one and how I would I tell the parent that I need to leash their child…lol it sounds horrible…but what else can I do?? BTW the kid is 3
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jen 12:25 PM 01-05-2011
I would purchase a harness of some sort, he is one thats actually pretty cute...

http://comfortfirst.com/p-136107-bab...-backpack.aspx

Have you mentioned to the parent before this that you are having trouble? If so, you can just tell them that this is the solution so that Jr. can continue to attend.

If not, you will need to provide the background and express your concerns. Then let them know that he won't be able to attend, for his own safety, without a the harness.

I wouldn't call it a leash! LOL!
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SilverSabre25 12:26 PM 01-05-2011
Target carries them in the baby section. I think they have the Eddie Bauer ones that are like backpacks and look like a monkey or a puppy or a bear. It's really *not that bad* to use a harness, although a 3yo might fight it. I come from a school of attachment parenting and I don't see a problem with using one in certain types of situations, and as long as you're leading/being led by the child, rather than dragging them.

I don't think you'd need to mention it to the parents

Another option would be a stroller--just a cheapo umbrella type, and explain to him that because you can't trust him to run off, he must ride in the stroller. You could even give him a choice--do you want the harness, or the stroller?

I'm going to be honest and say that by 3, most children have gotten over that stage; I'm guessing he has impulse control problems, and may very well be diagnosed with ADHD/similar in the future.
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mommyof3 12:27 PM 01-05-2011
I got my own child one of this back bag leash at walmarkt about $10/15.
For my daycare I have a walking rope I orderd it at Constructive Playthings about$20,its wort the price for me to kip the children safe .
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lvt77 12:37 PM 01-05-2011
Wow guys thanks so much.. I like the backpack idea. I also like the walking rope idea. I am going to give the backpack idea a try.
I did try a stroller, two issues with that.
one---- it requires both of my hands, giving less hands to help others
two----child takes off all the time. maybe would work best for story hour...
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missnikki 12:46 PM 01-05-2011
First off, you need to document this repeated behavior and make the parents aware. If something were to happen (God forbid) then you would have to admit you knew it was an issue previously. The parents need to know.

My handbook states:
"FIELD TRIP BEHAVIOR
Appropriate behavior is mandatory on all field trips. Should your child exercise poor behavior while on a trip, you may be called and asked to pick up your child. Please make sure to alert staff if you will not be reachable, and provide us with any names and numbers of authorized alternate people to call should such contact need to be made. Please speak with your children regarding these issues as poor behavior jeopardizes the entire group’s safety and fun.

Occasionally, we will be walking to our destination. All campers are expected to obey all street signs and postings, as well as all instructions from their Camp Leader. Failure to do so is a safety risk, and any child posing a safety threat to themselves or the group will be restricted from full participation as deemed necessary by staff. Repeated offenses will result in non-admittance to future field trips."

Mind you, I work with School Age but it is a safety issue regardless.
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Preschool/daycare teacher 12:49 PM 01-05-2011
I can sure sympathize. We don't have enough room in vehical for all of our children (it holds 5 and even on our slowest days there's still at least 8), but even if we had a big 15 passenger van, we still wouldn't be able to take some of them (one in particular, really), because of the reasons you talked about.
I personally think your assistant had a really good suggestion (adding to your policy that for behavior issues a child would be excluded). Can you put in your policy that you'll be taking field trips, however, if a child loses that priviledge due to repeated unsafe actions (or however you'd word that), and even after parents have worked with you to correct the behavior, that the child will no longer be allowed to participate, and parent is responsible for finding alternate care on those days? Then after giving out new policy, when you again try to take a field trip and it doesn't work with the child you're having trouble with, be honest with his parents and talk to the them about it and see what they say, if they have any suggestions for you (then they feel like you're coming to them for advice rather than putting them on the defensive), try out their advice for the next time you take field trip. If that doesn't work, again go to them for advice, letting them know it didn't work, and that you'll give it one more chance before you have to exclude him. Once you let them know you can't take him on Field trips anymore and if they get mad, tell them how bad you feel about it and all, and mention that maybe they'd like to attend field trips with their child or they could find someone else to go with you to watch him so that you are not responsible. lol Most likely the parent wouldn't do that, or say they couldn't due to work (which would probably be true), but at least you gave them an option! and even tried to make an exception to the policy (reminding them of what they signed). IDK, but that's just something that sounds like the only option to me. Although, if you did do that, you may want to make field trips a once monthly thing insetad one once weekly, because they'd be furious at having to find alternate care one day every week. That would be a little unrealistic to expect. If a 3 yr old isn't going to listen and behave they simply can't attend FT, and it wouldn't be right for everyone else to miss out because of one child. I'd be unhappy to be a parent and think that even though my own child listens and all the other children, too, they won't be able to attend anymore because of ONE child's actions. Sounds like he's not used to having to listen. Maybe he doesn't have to at home...? How does he do at daycare? Is he okay then, or is the behavior the same? Is it something you'd be okay with if the parents did get mad about having to find alternate care on those days, and ended up pulling him out?
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lvt77 12:51 PM 01-05-2011
you seem to have lots of knowledge....I really like your DCPolicy on FT.. Mind if I steal it....lol

I have documented the behavior issue and spoke to the parent about it, but thats all we do is discuss it, we have not come up with a resolution.
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mac60 01:16 PM 01-05-2011
I made my own when my kids were young. It wrapped around their wrist and attached to my wrist. Quite easy to make and worked well.
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Abigail 01:19 PM 01-05-2011
I forgot how large your group is, but when we take walks with the kids it is a stroller in the front for two children pushed by one child care provider. The walking rope with loops on it is tied to the stroller handle. We have 7-8 kids on the walking rope and I'm usually at the end walking behind them not hanging onto the rope....thank goodness because they hold the rope at my knee level! LOL. We just arrange all the kids in order according to age first, so the younger ones are up front to lead the speed of the walk and just to have a few extra eyes on them (the older kids in back). IF even one person lets go of the rope, we all stop. It turns into a group effort where every child helps get the child who let go to hang on again. Sometimes we stand an entire minute before they do, but we will not carry them. We go over the rules everyday before we leave the building and talk about our walking trip in the morning and mention it the day before. I think weekly trips are a bit excessive, bi-weekly is still often. I would try the walking rope first, then the backpack method second....I'm just not sure if the "leash/backpack" method is allowed in licensed daycares so don't get yourself in trouble. If all else fails, you should put the three year old in time out when you return from your trip if he expresses poor behavior and stick to it. Last resort, tell the parents on field trip days this month or the next so-many that he'll not be allowed to attend. It's not a permanent change, but if the parents need to find care for two days a month, then they might be talking to him about it at home to help you more or simply get frustrated and change daycares. LOL Sory it got kind of long.
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lvt77 03:42 PM 01-05-2011
I have 6 kids total..... our field trips are usually to our HOA park, walking distance (weather permitting) and reading hour at the local library when it's cold out...We do not have a large play yard area, so it is important that the kids have enough space to play.
As for putting the child in time out does not really help them running off. No matter what I do this kid runs....maybe they should be in track n field, I bet they would rock at it.....lol but on the serious side, I just don't know what to do....People come to my DC because of the teaching that I do and then carry it off site to further the lesson. so everyone knows that it is a weekly thing.
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kathiemarie 04:42 PM 01-05-2011
Would your helper be able to stay back at your house with him? Explain to him that becasue of his past behavior you can not trust him not to run off. Or could she just be in charge of him on the FT? I have a DC of 5 or 6 and we go out all of the time without a helper.
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Crystal 04:59 PM 01-05-2011
I would talk to the parent and let them know that if it continues they will need to find alternate care for FT days. Trust me, they will not be surprised that he behaves this way with you, as he surely does it with them as well.

Give him the warning that the next time he behaves that way he will not be able to go again and then follow through. If he has to miss a FT, I'd make it a REALLY good one so he KNOWS he's missing out on something he'd really like to do. It may stick with him and then he may decide he'd rather stay with the group so he can attend your FT.
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lvt77 05:14 PM 01-05-2011
lotta great feed back thank you so much....as for asking my help to stay back, they are only a volunteer helper and are not able to be left alone with the kids per licensing....

I think I am going to have to rewrite my PHB and state that if a child has behavioral issues that threaten the saftey of anyone including self that the parent will have to pick them up....ugghhh lol
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momatheart 05:28 PM 01-05-2011
Can you hold his hand when you walk with the group? Partner up each child and you walk in front holding that childs hand and your helper walks at the end of the line.
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lvt77 05:40 PM 01-05-2011
the problem is just not when we are walking...it's every where..ie at the park when we are playing they take off and run....no matter where we are what we are doing run run run.....lol I swear the kid does not have an off switch....but yes, I do hold this child's hand always when walking and then pair older kids with little kids....all of the other kids usually do great....however, this child tends to rub off on some of the others and they will join the run off game.....the other children will come back if I tell them freeze...you need to come back with the group where I can see you and they will....all but this one child......
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countrymom 06:24 AM 01-06-2011
I'm mean, I go thru some rules when I leave and I tell them what the consequences are if they miss behave. If you go to a park or lib. and all he does is run, well then he gets to walk with you and not play with the other children and not for a few minutes, for the whole duration of your stay. I don't mess around, thats why my group behaves so well, they know what the consequences are.
also I would either do the stroller and buckle him up or buy the leash. also what are the parents going to do---nothing, probably tell you not to go on trips if you can't handle it.
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Blackcat31 07:32 AM 01-06-2011
All of last year I had this same issue. But my dck was almost 5. After two field trips and bad behavior dispite many prior discussions of rules and expectations and multiple conversations with parents, this kid lost his field trip priviledges. I hired a helper who remained at my child care with this child while my assistant came with to assist me and the other kids. The helper who came to sit with this dck at my childcare watched him for anywhere from 1 hour to 3 hours depending on what our field trip was. I charged the parents the fee for hiring this helper because it was their child and I felt as though they should be responsible. I refused to allow the other kids to miss out on something because of one child. Especially a child who was old enough to know better. I found out later that when he got to Kindergarten, he went on one field trip and then subsequently lost all priviledges there too! Don't know if he ever behaved well enough to earn back the privedge but was glad to know it wasn't just happening here. My guess is that the parents weren't teaching their child any consequences to his actions or weren't teaching him how to listen...and that isn't my job. It's only my job to reinforce and support those skills...I'm the provider NOT the parent.
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lvt77 10:27 AM 01-06-2011
wow...i feel sad for kids that the parents expect us to do all the parenting and do nothing at home with their child...and then wonder why their kid is crazy...lol

So can I ask what state you are in? I can't leave any DCK alone with another person unless they meet all the requirments that I have as a provider. They dont have to be licensed, but they do have to have all of the same certs...
DOJ clearance
Infant/child cpr first aide
Health/ safety prevention
TB test
Plus I have to trust them enough to stay in my home without me here....
I feel like its like finding a needle in a hay stack..
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Blackcat31 10:34 AM 01-06-2011
Originally Posted by lvt77:
wow...i feel sad for kids that the parents expect us to do all the parenting and do nothing at home with their child...and then wonder why their kid is crazy...lol

So can I ask what state you are in? I can't leave any DCK alone with another person unless they meet all the requirments that I have as a provider. They dont have to be licensed, but they do have to have all of the same certs...
DOJ clearance
Infant/child cpr first aide
Health/ safety prevention
TB test
Plus I have to trust them enough to stay in my home without me here....
I feel like its like finding a needle in a hay stack..
I'm in Minnesota. I have three helpers/assistants that I use. One on a regular basis, but the other two are strictly back-up or substitutes. They also have to have all the required bacground checks, CPR and 1st aid trainings etc as I have to have. they have to be listed in my file with licensing as people I use also. I also keep track of how often and for how many hours each month/year I use them since we can only use a substitute for like 30 hours per year (if I remember correctly) and no more than a certain number of days in a row. One is my 22 yr old daughter who is an LPN and has grown up in my childcare so all the families know and love her...she made a fortune babysitting for families on the weekends and evenings when she was a teenager. One of my other subs is a former dcm and my helper is a college girl working towards her degree in Elementary Education. I advertised on the college bulletin boards and she responded. After several lengthy interviews and trial runs she's been a blessing and a welcome addition. Been with me a little over a year and I love her to pieces!!
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lvt77 10:37 AM 01-06-2011
sounds like you have a great set-up....my issues is also money..I charge a very low rate and don't know if I could afford to hire someone...with all kids combined, i make only $12.00 an hour............
can I ask what do you do if one of your workers does not show up??
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Blackcat31 11:02 AM 01-06-2011
I haven't had that issue come up yet. But if I did, my DH could fill in at a moments notice. He works from home and although I have my daycare in a separate house in town, it is only 5 miles from my home so he could be here in a jiffy. When I first started (over 16 yrs ago) I had all sorts of issues with part timers not showing up or needing care and I would hire a helper to accommodate and then not have the parent show up so I needlessly hired someone etc etc...but after doing this for so long you learn what is acceptable, what is not and what you will absolutely NOT put up with.
Like wine, it gets better with time. You learn to carefully weed out the families that won't fit after you stop looking at the $ side of things and look at the side that says whether a kid/family is a good match. I used to take kids for the $ but learned sometimes there are families/kids not worth the trouble no matter how well they paid. Once you establish yourself and earn a good reputation, everything falls into place. It does take time and support..but isn't that why we are all here?
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lvt77 11:15 AM 01-06-2011
im not in it for the money....I love what I do...
Didnt mean to sound like I was complaining..
I have actually been really lucky with my parents...I have slected really good parents...some people we acutally willing to pay more money, but I did not see them as a fit for our group or someone that I could work with...

I just cant afford to hire anyone....I teach a preschoolk program here and right now its costing me an arm and a leg....lol I also offer a free parents night out once a month to families to pay on time for the full month...
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QualiTcare 11:22 AM 01-06-2011
they have the monkey backpacks at wal mart - i had one for my son when he was younger. i think i paid maybe $10 and it was in the baby section.

i would put that on him and have the assistant walk with him in the back of the group (or the front and you in the back).
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Blackcat31 11:23 AM 01-06-2011
I totally did not mean to imply that you were in it for the money...sorry. It is tough. I have a few friends who are providers who have a parent past or present be their helper and then they trade for services. Maybe you could offer to swap services with someone. If a parent needs weekend care, but they are available to help during the day etc. What preschool curriculum are you using? What is the cost for you? Offering preschool activites and curriculum can be done with out spending any money if you network and can be really creative....
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Lilbutterflie 11:31 AM 01-06-2011
lvt77, sort of off topic... but you said you take the kids to the library as one of your field trips. I'm just wondering this, how do you keep the kids quiet??? Or is your library okay with the kids using inside voices?

I say this b/c I have taken my own two kids to the local library. They have a cute set up with puzzles, tapes, and all the books they could want. My 2 yo old loves it, but I can't keep him completely quiet. He does use an inside voice, but the librarian still tells us they have to be completely quiet or they must be separated in a private room (with none of the puzzles, kids chairs or tables). I would never dare bring all of my dck's for fear that we will be pushed out for talking.

Just wondering how your experience is at the library with 6 kids??
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lvt77 11:34 AM 01-06-2011
well i use the mother goose time program, i teach zoo phonics and dino-senssory.... i spend a lot on printing paper glue paint, cleaning supplies...I think i over clean, but its my house and i dont want to live in germs....which we know kids carry lots...love the little kiddies, just not their germs.....lol
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Blackcat31 12:02 PM 01-06-2011
Originally Posted by lvt77:
well i use the mother goose time program, i teach zoo phonics and dino-senssory.... i spend a lot on printing paper glue paint, cleaning supplies...I think i over clean, but its my house and i dont want to live in germs....which we know kids carry lots...love the little kiddies, just not their germs.....lol
I PM'ed you about curriculum.
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