Three year old DCB was dropped off by Dad today. He has been having some behavior issues. He walks through the door and announces "I'm going to the pumpkin patch tonight!"

Dad says " Now remember... You only get to go if you are nice to your friends "

While coloring at the table, he was insistent that his coloring was the best. Another child said " Mine's good too!". This was met with DCB spitting on the child's paper.

I removed him from ther table which was met with a meltdown and he was placed away from the group until he camed down.

Mom came to pick up and I told her what htimeappened. She looked shocked and said "OH that's not acceptable! He can't spit at people!"

DCB comes running out. I expected DCM to be upset with him.

He grins and asks if they are going to the pumpkin patch. I couldn't hide my disgust when she said........ "Weeeelllllll....we'll go, but you have to be nice to the kids there"

...and they wonder why he continues to behave this way.

I actually really like both parents as they are sweet people, but are waaay too passive with their son. He runs the family.

Sigh..,.....

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Ugg they are not on board with fixing the issues. They want to do what is easy for them.

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Ok seriously, have you been hanging at my house lately?

Same kid, same type of behavior stuff, same parent style/reactions and same sighs.

TOTALLY understand.

I'm so over it..

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I totally gave up on even telling parents about behavior years ago. Now I will only say something IF I know the parent will back me up. Otherwise I deal with it on my own.

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Parents need to be on the same page with each other and never ever tell their kid something they won't enforce. Too much room for the child to power play.

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Right.
A couple of years ago we had a really bad day here with the kids. I said something to a couple of parents at pick up (they came in together) about it being a tough day for listening/following directions. As I walked away one mom was speaking sternly to her kids, the other was saying "well there are two sides to every story" Um, the person who was with your child all day just told you nicely that the kids were not behaving appropriately. The only acceptable response is "we'll talk about it at home"
So yeah, I get it.

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Honestly most people believe consequences that don't get connect to the problem behavior are inappropriate and useless. Also people believe that if something happens hours prior, then to punish hours later is inappropriate and is of no use. So while I think that the parents never should have threatened with no pumpkin patch to begin with, they also shouldn't have Punished a behavior from hours prior which has nothing to do with going to the pumpkin patch.

They way dad set it up, be set the boy up for failure. There was no real definition of what had to be met to got to the pumpkin patch. Maybe boy was good all day and made one spit second reaction when emotionally charged (which was definitely age appropriate and a chance to learn what is socially appropriate). So then mom and dad realize later, its ****ed up to follow through on such an impossible demand. So now they are inconsistent and nlnot following through which leads to ever more testing from the toddler. It's just a typical day for their family. It could help if you put out a newsletter with articles from Janet lansbury- or someone good with RIE or age appropriate guidance. Good luck!

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Same!

TOTALLY agree! If you aren't true to your word, your child knows it and will do EVERYTHING he/she can to get you to break.


I agree--- to an extent. If it's an ongoing issue, I find pulling parents in for a consequence at home to be very effective IF they are effective at discipline. Even if it's a minor consequence.

I have an almost 4yo here. She has been pushing. Mom said "No TV show while I am cooking dinner if you hit today."

Clear limit, clear consequence that Mom can live with.

Dcg pushed. Dcm just said matter of factly "Oh, that's too bad. No tv for you tonight."

Instead, they used the opportunity for dcg to color at the dining room table and talk to Mom about other choices instead of pushing.


No more pushing.

I don't have much that I can remove from the children for misbehaviors. I use natural consequences whenever possible (the child she pushed still refuses to play with her...)

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I guess I disagree. I have athree year old daughter and appropriate behavior has been expected from day one. Spitting on someone or somthing is a HUGE no no in our house. I don't care if it happened at 11 am, she remembers very well the reason she doesn't get to watch her favorite show or go some place special. I think it also comes down to remorse. If they react to something negatively, but instantly kow it was wrong, apologize, and try to make amends, then I would consider that a positve situation (even thought he initial behavior is negative). If they do it and don't care and then proceed to throw a fit after the consequences come in to play, then that is not good behavior and I would be using that as an example through the day to remind them how to act. I know not every kid is like my daughter, but if I came to daycare and learned my kid had spit and then threw a huge tantrum, I would follow through on not going to the pumpkin patch. For a one year old, then no,but at three, they know and can remember the poor behavior that contributed to them losing a privilege, especially if it was a serious offense like spitting. jmo

My mom always said, "If you say you are going to do something, then do it. Otherwise it is just hot air and they will learn not care!"

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Oh yes...he knew EXACTLY. He also knows exactly how to play his mother and knew he would get away with bad behavior. He's a smart little guy.

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It amazes me how much smarter a 2 yo is than a grown adult.

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It's the testing of boundaries. And unfortunately they will have to continue to test them until they are shown what the boundary is- many times. This is EXACTLY what they should be doing. Do you get mad at a baby (or the baby's ridiculous parents) for rolling over? They do that to get to the next stage.


I definitely believe if you say something, do it. It would be inconsistent not to. But I think it was an impossible threat to begin with. There's no way a 3 year old can hold in their mind for 8-10 hours to keep in line that entire time- no "overly" emotional reactions or insulting behavior, or they'll loose a special, already promised, reward. That's terrible. "Good" behavior, "bad" behavior needs to be taken out of the thought process.

There are reasons kid's do what they do. We try to figure those out. Then we can teach them how to control themselves and not hurt others physically (pushing) or emotionally (spitting). We teach them how to care about other kid's feelings by modeling respect and not jumping to a time out or loss of a privilege.

The child who spit could have been told it isn't healthy for their germs from their saliva to get on other people and also that it hurts so and so's feelings because it's rude and yucky (or whatever language you prefer). At that time, I would have told them if they can't be respectful of others health and feelings, they will have to leave the activity and do something else. If they did something again, I'd move them away- let them pick their new spot. They don't need punishment by time out, they need the natural consequence of now you don't get to do this activity.

So you see, my response was so different- it's very removed from saying no pumpkin patch. I wonder if the parents have similar feelings but don't know how to make it work with all the mixed messages they get about consequences, punishments, time-outs, no time-outs, respect the child, the child should do as they're told... etc. It's hard for parents to know what to do when even childcare professionals have VERY different views on what is the DEFINITE best way to do everything! IF I talked to those parents, they would get very different advice, observations, suggestions, than if you did. So, why do you act like these people are idiots (less smart than a 2 year old) for not knowing what's right (according to your "right")?

I guess I could just be supportive of you, and say, "Yes! Parents not following through is really annoying" because that is for sure true! But, there really is a lot more to this whole situation that's not being addressed. I often wonder on here (on the forum) if people really do just want to hear that support or the real opinion and thoughts on how to make it better.

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I may have missed it , but did you have DCB apologize to the child for spitting on his paper ? I would have also home with him to get a new sheet of paper to hand to the other child. Little steps like that can turn into responsible habits.

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A baby rolling over is not harmful to others. It is natural to learn to rollover. Spitting and hitting are not natural behaviors for a three year old, at least no those who have had established boundaries and consistent discipline long before three.

My three year old can remember if I tell her she gets to go to the pumpkin patch 10 hours from now, so why would she not remember that good behavior is a condition of that trip? She gets to pick and choose what she remembers? No, this boy knew he got to go to the tpumpkin patch because he asked at pick up. He is just as capable of remembering that the reason he no longer gets to go is because he spit on his friends work and then threw a tantrum.

Three year olds should already know this and many do. This boy sounds like he knew the behavior is wrong and due to lack of follow through in the past by his parents, he didn't care and knew it would not affect his chances of going to the pumpkin patch. (just guessing here)

And not getting to go to the pumpkin patch was the consequence, as that is what the consequence was to be if he had bad behavior through out the day. He knows what is good and bad behavior. There was no particular behavior set, but that doesn't mean that at three he doesn't know the difference. He just knows that bad behavior at daycare will not affect what he gets to do at home. Most likely, bad behavior at home is handled by bribing and empty threats, so he knows full well what he can get away with.

I don't think they are idiots. They know what they are doing. They just don't know how that will backfire on them as he gets older. Most of us here have seen that backfire. We know it very well, and while I definitely support different ways of doing things, the biggest lesson parents need to learn is that you should NEVER make empty threats to a child. They take it and run with it and it will only get harder as they get older and smarter.

I totally support your way of doing things, but the problem I have with this case is that when parents set a boundary (be good at daycare or you won't go...), they should be setting them at home. It bugs me a lot when parents do this, because I do MY part as a provider and follow through and let parents know of what happened that day, and then they turn around and do the opposite of what they said they would. That doesn't make just them look bad, it reflects badly all the way around. The kid starts to think that even if I have to sit in time out or whatever the consequence is at daycare, it is just TEMPORARY and mom will give me what I want when she gets here. It is not a cooperative effort to help dck be the best he can be...they are coming up short on their end. And, frankly, it is annoying!

Again, much respect to those who do it differently. This is just my opinion on these types of situations.

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The dcd blurted out what was easy and probably first thing that came to his mind. Maybe a better way to state something like that is 'going to the pumpkin patch is a privilege you'll earn by using good manners today', etc. When my dcks are being challenging I'll tell them they've lost the privilege of________ for the day. Maybe they can earn it back for tomorrow.
Personally, I don't think behavior and privileges should cross over from daycare to home and vice versa. They are 2 separate entities with different rules and expectations. UNLESS the behavior is so cruel and mean but to me(and I'll probably get blasted for this!)a one time spitting incident would not qualify as such. As suggested, I would have dcb replace the other's paper, apologize or apologize for him(I don't believe in empty forced apologies, they don't mean a darn thing and can become an issue of their own) and then he would be dismissed from the table.
The dcd did an injustice to his ds by making hollow threats. But that doesn't mean a thing as far as you and your dc are concerned. DCB will learn you mean business and he'll learn his dad doesn't. Whose buttons will he be more apt to push?

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