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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>How would you handle this? Gun question.
bunnyslippers 06:36 AM 11-30-2012
This is a new one for me. In a conversation with a dcm this morning, it came up that my husband owns a gun. I have been caring for her daughter for almost a year.

She was not happy to hear that he owns a gun. Her concern was that my children may think it is a toy and hurt one of the dcks. I explained that the gun is in a locked gun safe in our attic, that the bullets are kept in a completely different location, and that my children do not even know we own it (they are 2 and 5). I further explained that our attic is a pulldown, from the second floor ceiling.

She told me she needed to process it and we would talk this afternoon at pick-up. She has a right to be concerned, though I feel her concern and worry is unneccessary. I just am not sure how to address her concerns any more than I already have.

I am frustrated and feeling a bit sad. This is a mother I truly enjoy working with, and I adore her daughter.

That being said, I am getting a bit tired of having to defend decisions my family makes on a personal level to my clients. I am tired of my children being judged by them, my house being evaluated, and our personal rights being questioned.

We are respectable, mild-mannered, intelligent, well-educated, and responsible people. Our home is immaculate and safe in every way. Our two boys are kind children. We are not having shooting contests in our backyard, popping out our teeth and drinking beer on the stoop every night once the daycare closes. We are the same family today she thought we were yesterday.

Thoughts?
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MamaBearCanada 06:49 AM 11-30-2012
I don't think you can address her concerns more. I don't think you have done anything wrong but if the mom has a fear, rational or irrational, she is going to have to convince herself one way or the other about her child's safety. This is a touchy subject for many people despite the "Guns don't kill people, people kill people." You have followed all the safety measures. I don't know if seeing how & where things were stored would help.

It's situations like this that are teaching me to say less and less about my life and activities to other people.
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Mom&Provider 07:03 AM 11-30-2012
I was just thinking...say less, more often...then I read the PP'er say it too.

I have a bad habit sometimes too of saying too much, then I wish I hadn't...nothing you can do now. You've explained it all and that's that. I would almost wonder tho if your families don't have a right to know? Are there any rules out there that state it has to be declared?
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wdmmom 07:16 AM 11-30-2012
I understand the parents concerns but she cant tell you what you can and cant possess under your roof...especially when its legal.

With many states (Iowa included) many citizens have permits to carry. That is of more concern than something you own on another floor of your home.

I guarantee she is or has encountered plenty of people...officials or citizens that carry or possess a gun of some sort and hasnt thought twice.

A daycare provider or their significant other possessing a gun is NOT illegal. I dont feel it needs to be addressed prior to enrolling kids either. IMHO, its no different than your neighbor, a teacher, grandparents or family friends. My bet is the child has already been around a weapon and didnt even know it.

Would her concerns be what they are if you were a martial artist or if you were married to a cop? What if you had a japanese sword in a case mounted 10 feet above the floor? Ya know what i mean? If a parent is looking to leave, theyll find any reason.
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Crystal 07:17 AM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by bunnyslippers:
We are not having shooting contests in our backyard, popping out our teeth and drinking beer on the stoop every night once the daycare closes. We are the same family today she thought we were yesterday.

Thoughts?
OMG! I just spit coffee! I REALLY needed that laugh! Thank you!

All kidding aside, I think you handled it well and hopefully Mom will accept the fact that there is a gun in the house and TRUST YOU enough to move past it.

I understand your feelings about growing tired of your personal life being an open book with families......it's one of those things that comes with being self-employed and working from your home, especially with children. We are held to higher standards and under much more scrutiny than others would be.

Best of luck, I hope it all works out
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Blackcat31 07:28 AM 11-30-2012
I agree that we are held to a different set of standards compared to others and although that can make being a child care provider as sipperly slope to navigate, I would have done the same thing you did and responded in the same way.

I would have told the parents that I am abiding by all licensing laws as far as safety and hazardous items, materials and environments but if the family felt they could not trust that I was following the rules, then I would suggest they turn in their two week notice and find alternate care.

I have some pretty strong feelings about guns and I think each persons thoughts/opinions about them are theirs alone but as a provider, you can only do the best you can by following your licensing rules about having guns.

I think it is imperative that families trust you and that you trust them and if that trust isn't there then the contract to care for their child should be discontinued.
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Willow 07:55 AM 11-30-2012
People are going to feel how they're going to feel about it based on their personal experiences. If she lets that sour the working relationship IMHO that's too bad, but you can't fault her for doing what she feels she needs to do to keep her child safe. I wish all parents thought to care that much!

To avoid the surprise factor and head off any future qualms about it I throw that one out right at interview time.

Usually the dads oogle the deer, waterfowl and musky mounts we have on our living room walls and it's a nice intro into the conversation......"obviously we hunt, which means we own firearms. They are stored in a locked gun safe downstairs and all ammunition is kept in a separate locked box in another location we don't disclose to anyone. No firearms or ammunition will ever be out or accessed by anyone during daycare hours. It's important that you trust I will supervise to a level that you are assured your child will never have access to the basement outside of planned 5 minute once a month tornado drills, much less ever have an opportunity to lay a finger on the locked safe itself. Obviously it's a priority to us as parents to keep our own children safe while living with them in their home, please know it's just as big of a priority to us to keep any kids in my care safe while they're here as well. Do you have any questions or concerns you'd like to discuss about any of that at this time?"

To which the dads immediately start an inquiry into which kinds we own and how many

That's when we do as a previous poster suggested and choose a less is more approach. There are a whole lot of people who can handle hearing our son has a bb gun, or that we as deer hunters keep a rifle or shotgun in the house, but when they learn there are handguns for our conceal/carry permits up through to an AK-15 for predator hunting, that's when things could definitely take a turn and I'm not interested in debating my Constitutional rights and personal preferences.......we don't lie, just say all are legal and registered, licensing is well aware is and more than comfortable with the safeguards we have in place and then leave it at that.
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Childminder 08:11 AM 11-30-2012
I am in MI and licensing requires at enrollment that it must state in writing whether or not we have guns on the premises as well as if our house was built before 1978 and if we have pets. My DH isn't a hunter but I was brought up as one and had my own guns till 2000 when I gave them to my son.

Just like hazardous chemicals they can be dangerous but stored properly they are just another item. Assure her that they are under lock and key and perhaps remove the firing pin or purchase trigger locks to make her more comfortable? Otherwise you are within your rights and she can choose to go elsewhere.
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familyschoolcare 08:24 AM 11-30-2012
I have firearms in my house. I would have responded the same way as Op. Only would have added and I declared them to my licensing report during the initial inspection.

If a parent I had for that long suddenly became aware and that concerned about the firearms I would be tempted to say I am surprised that this concerns you so much I would have thought if it worried you that much you would have asked at the initial interview. But I am not sure I would actually say that.
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crazydaycarelady 08:31 AM 11-30-2012
I think you have addressed it the best way you can and at this point dcmom has to decide what she wants to do. Short of getting rid of the gun there is nothing else you can do.

My dh is a PO so like Willow I also throw it out there at the interview. I just explain the we do have a weapon in the house due to dh's job and that we keep it up and locked. As far as I know this has never deterred anyone from coming here.
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bunnyslippers 08:36 AM 11-30-2012
Thanks for all of the feedback, ladies! The DCM did say, "Huh, probably should have asked you about that before." I think it will turn out ok. That being said, I am not giong to engage in much further conversation with her about it.

If she brings it up, I will calmly listen to her concerns, and just reiterate that my husband has a firearm license, that daycare licensing is aware that we have it, and that we have followed all safety precautions.

If she pushed the issue, I am prepared to tell her that if she can't trust that her daughter is safe here at all times, this probably isn't the right place for her. She would probably have a heart attack if I said that to her. She waited for a spot to open up here for 6 months, and tells me constantly that she is so happy she found me.

I have been contemplating closing down at the end of this school year and going back to teaching in the fall. This whole incident just pushed me one step closer to that decision.
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Blackcat31 08:38 AM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by bunnyslippers:
I have been contemplating closing down at the end of this school year and going back to teaching in the fall. This whole incident just pushed me one step closer to that decision.
Hey, don't let it get to you. Parents have a right to be concerned about what ever worries them. You just do what you do and let them decide what they need to do.

I had a parent a while back ask me to sign an agreement stating I wouldn't use the microwave while her child was here.

To each their own.
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Country Kids 08:43 AM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Hey, don't let it get to you. Parents have a right to be concerned about waht ever worries them. You just do what you do and let them decide what they need to do.

I had a parent a while back ask me to sign an agreement stating I wouldn't use the microwave while her child was here.

To each their own.
Did you term them?
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bunnyslippers 08:57 AM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Hey, don't let it get to you. Parents have a right to be concerned about waht ever worries them. You just do what you do and let them decide what they need to do.

I had a parent a while back ask me to sign an agreement stating I wouldn't use the microwave while her child was here.

To each their own.
You are rignt! I love her, and think she is a great mom. We have become quite friendly. I guess when I say this has helped me make a decision towards closing, it is because I want to be in a position where I can have my home back without people needing to know details of my life. I am just ready, I think. I know I am ready, actually. I have loved being home with my children, but now they are ready for preschool, so I have the chance now to start fresh (well, in September).
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e.j. 09:03 AM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Hey, don't let it get to you. Parents have a right to be concerned about waht ever worries them. You just do what you do and let them decide what they need to do.
I learned a long time ago that I can't be all things to all people. I do what I do and parents either accept it or they don't.

I think you addressed her concerns honestly and appropriately and that's all you can really do. Parents get to decide what they can live with and where they draw the line when it comes to their kids' safety and well-being. It's hard to lose a family you enjoy. Hopefully, she'll consider the care you've been giving her dd for the past year and decide to stay on with you. If not, there will be others who will come along to fill her spot.
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MarinaVanessa 09:05 AM 11-30-2012
I don't bring up the topic about us owning guns but I did disclose it to my licensing analyst because they ask. If this issue were to come up later then I'd point out that I'm within licensing regulations and like you .. arms are kept locked (some with additional trigger locks) and inaccesible to the kids and the ammo locked elsewhere.

I had a situation once with a DCM hesitating with me driving the DCK's around (I pick up kids from school) and even though I reassured her of the safety steps that I take (classes, carseat inspections, clean DMV record etc) she was still hesitant, but she just needed to work it out within herself. She didn't pull him out and processed her "mommy fears", as she called them, herself.

Maybe your mom just needs time to digest the information also. Do you think that it will help her to see generally where everything is kept? As in you can show her where your pull-down ladder that leads to the attic is so that she can see for herself how difficult it would be for a child to even get into the attic. Even then just let her process the info. There's really not much else that you can do. If she still feels uneasy then she always has the choice of finding different child care. Either way chalk it up to a lesson learned ... like the other ladies posted, don't offer more info about guns unless asked.
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littlemissmuffet 09:19 AM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by bunnyslippers:
This is a new one for me. In a conversation with a dcm this morning, it came up that my husband owns a gun. I have been caring for her daughter for almost a year.

She was not happy to hear that he owns a gun. Her concern was that my children may think it is a toy and hurt one of the dcks. I explained that the gun is in a locked gun safe in our attic, that the bullets are kept in a completely different location, and that my children do not even know we own it (they are 2 and 5). I further explained that our attic is a pulldown, from the second floor ceiling.

She told me she needed to process it and we would talk this afternoon at pick-up. She has a right to be concerned, though I feel her concern and worry is unneccessary. I just am not sure how to address her concerns any more than I already have.

I am frustrated and feeling a bit sad. This is a mother I truly enjoy working with, and I adore her daughter.

That being said, I am getting a bit tired of having to defend decisions my family makes on a personal level to my clients. I am tired of my children being judged by them, my house being evaluated, and our personal rights being questioned.

We are respectable, mild-mannered, intelligent, well-educated, and responsible people. Our home is immaculate and safe in every way. Our two boys are kind children. We are not having shooting contests in our backyard, popping out our teeth and drinking beer on the stoop every night once the daycare closes. We are the same family today she thought we were yesterday.

Thoughts?
I would never keep my child in a daycare that I knew had guns either. Someone can ssure me all they want that the gun and ammo are locked up and would never be in the reach of a child... but I would never truly know. I know one could argue that there are all kinds of dangerous items in a home at any given time (kitchen knives being one) that kids have easier access too and I'd never know - but it's my right as a parent to not want my child in a home I know has a gun in it.

I would never, however, dictate to the provider that they shouldn't have a gun in their home. I would simply let them know that it's not something I was comfortable with, would give appropriate notice and leave on my own accord.
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bunnyslippers 09:27 AM 11-30-2012
I agree that it is her call as a mom, and I respect it 100%.

My child care is in a separate area of my home, in my basement. The day care children and families never are in the top three floors of my home. They have nver even seen my upstairs, where the attic is. The gun is literally 3 floors away from the children at all times.
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melilley 09:33 AM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by Childminder:
I am in MI and licensing requires at enrollment that it must state in writing whether or not we have guns on the premises as well as if our house was built before 1978 and if we have pets. My DH isn't a hunter but I was brought up as one and had my own guns till 2000 when I gave them to my son.

Just like hazardous chemicals they can be dangerous but stored properly they are just another item. Assure her that they are under lock and key and perhaps remove the firing pin or purchase trigger locks to make her more comfortable? Otherwise you are within your rights and she can choose to go elsewhere.
Sorry childminder, this is off subject, but I too am in MI and I saw that you said we have to tell parents if our house is built before 1978. Isn't it we only have to tell them if we are going to remodel? That was my understanding...I'm only asking because I want to make sure I am doing things right.
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theycallmetaytor 09:33 AM 11-30-2012
In my state a trigger lock is required along with the gun being kept in a locked box out of the reach of children. Maybe get trigger locks. It may ease her mind...in the inprobable event her child or another got ahold of the gun there would be another precaution in place.
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littlemissmuffet 09:36 AM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by bunnyslippers:
I agree that it is her call as a mom, and I respect it 100%.

My child care is in a separate area of my home, in my basement. The day care children and families never are in the top three floors of my home. They have nver even seen my upstairs, where the attic is. The gun is literally 3 floors away from the children at all times.
I understand that. And I sincerely believe you when you say the gun is 3 floors away from the children at all times. I would still be 100% uncomfortable with this. I grew up around hunters and I know many people who keep guns in their homes - it's a personal decision, and I'm ok with that. It's just my personal decision to not have a gun in our home and to not let my child be in a home without myself/my husband with a gun. It's not something you should take personally at all - but I know it's difficult because the parent would be throwing away a year long relationship because of something you view as a non-issue.

I think this is a difficult situation to be in and I hope it ends in a way where both you and the DCM are at peace. Bets of luck!
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JustMe 09:42 AM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by melilley:
Sorry childminder, this is off subject, but I too am in MI and I saw that you said we have to tell parents if our house is built before 1978. Isn't it we only have to tell them if we are going to remodel? That was my understanding...I'm only asking because I want to make sure I am doing things right.
I am in MI and I believe you are supposed to tell the parents about your home being built prior to 1978 for lead-paint disclosure reasons. It's on one of the forms that parents have to sign before they start their kids. And also, if you are going to remodel and there is the possibility of lead dust being in the air, you are required to tell them as well.


Question - are bb guns considered firearms?
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melilley 09:45 AM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by JustMe:
I am in MI and I believe you are supposed to tell the parents about your home being built prior to 1978 for lead-paint disclosure reasons. It's on one of the forms that parents have to sign before they start their kids. And also, if you are going to remodel and there is the possibility of lead dust being in the air, you are required to tell them as well.


Question - are bb guns considered firearms?
Thanks! Good to know! I am also curious about the bb gun question! Same for paint ball or air guns.
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bunnyslippers 09:50 AM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by littlemissmuffet:
I understand that. And I sincerely believe you when you say the gun is 3 floors away from the children at all times. I would still be 100% uncomfortable with this. I grew up around hunters and I know many people who keep guns in their homes - it's a personal decision, and I'm ok with that. It's just my personal decision to not have a gun in our home and to not let my child be in a home without myself/my husband with a gun. It's not something you should take personally at all - but I know it's difficult because the parent would be throwing away a year long relationship because of something you view as a non-issue.

I think this is a difficult situation to be in and I hope it ends in a way where both you and the DCM are at peace. Bets of luck!
I appreciate your opinion. To be honest, I am not a big fan of having it, either. It is my husband's, and I respect his desire to have one in the home.

This particular dcm is also a teacher in my son's school. We live in a small town, so our paths will cross for the next 20 years! I am optimistic that it will work out, but I respect her opinions on the subject. I don't want her child to be here if she doesn't believe she will be safe on a daily basis.
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melilley 09:59 AM 11-30-2012
In my opinion, I don't see what the big deal is. You said that it is in your attic, 2 or 3 stories up and none of the children even go up there. You have to pull down stairs, which are usually heavy. No child is going to get to it If this person trusts you then it shouldn't be a problem. That is just me. I see how others could be bothered by this, but I personally wouldn't be.
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littlemissmuffet 10:00 AM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by bunnyslippers:
I appreciate your opinion. To be honest, I am not a big fan of having it, either. It is my husband's, and I respect his desire to have one in the home.

This particular dcm is also a teacher in my son's school. We live in a small town, so our paths will cross for the next 20 years! I am optimistic that it will work out, but I respect her opinions on the subject. I don't want her child to be here if she doesn't believe she will be safe on a daily basis.
I was talking to my husband about this issue recently, actually because he wants to get a hunting license. I told him we simply can't have a gun in the house because a) the business we run (I know quite a few parents would be uncomfortable with it and b) I would be uncomfortable with it. He wondered which parents would be uncomfortable with it, and I thought about it forr quite some time, and I think they ALL would be uncomfortable with it - even those who own guns themselves... they know THEIR guns are locked up at all times, but they could never be sure ours was without checking and I think that would be unsettling for some. I also think that because 2 adults have access to the gun it doubles the chances of a mistake, you know?

Regardlless, I am so happy you feel optimistic about the outcome and that you aren't upset with the DCM. That's really big of you!
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laundrymom 10:01 AM 11-30-2012
And here I've been gushing to my parents about hubs getting me a gun for Christmas. Lol. I even have been texting one dad about a grip issue I'm having, trying to get the shells NOT to hit me in the face! Ugh. Lol.

OP did great. I hope mom understands.
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Texasjeepgirl 12:20 PM 11-30-2012
My husband is a Concealed Handgun License Instructor. He also owns multiple guns... they are kept in a locked safe in another part of our furniture building completely on the other side of the building from where my daycare and personal apartment are located...I don't usually discuss this issue with potential clients.. but .. I do understand the concern any parent would have regarding guns being in the home ...
I agree with the other posts.. you have definetly given her the information for her to make a well thought out.. informed decision....

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Childminder 12:24 PM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by :
Originally Posted by melilley
Sorry childminder, this is off subject, but I too am in MI and I saw that you said we have to tell parents if our house is built before 1978. Isn't it we only have to tell them if we are going to remodel? That was my understanding...I'm only asking because I want to make sure I am doing things right.
Originally Posted by :
I am in MI and I believe you are supposed to tell the parents about your home being built prior to 1978 for lead-paint disclosure reasons. It's on one of the forms that parents have to sign before they start their kids. And also, if you are going to remodel and there is the possibility of lead dust being in the air, you are required to tell them as well.
Question - are bb guns considered firearms?
Yes to the 1978 and I don't know on the firearms. Looked it up but does not say in the Technical. Call your Licensing Rep? :R 400.1935 (1-3)
Rationale
Technical Assistance
Consultation
07/01/2009
TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE AND CONSULTATION R 400.1935 FAMILY AND GROUP CHILD CARE HOMES
Firearms.
(1) All firearms shall be unloaded and properly stored in a secure, safe, locked environment inaccessible to children. A secure locked environment shall include a commercially available locked firearms cabinet, gun safe, trigger lock that prevents discharge, or other locking firearm device.
(2) Ammunition shall be stored in a separate locked location inac- cessible to children.
(3) Firearms shall not be traded or sold on the premises while child care children are present.
The potential for injury and death of young children due to firearms is becoming increasingly apparent.
Selling firearms on the premises of a child care home greatly increases children's accessibility to them, making the risk of harm or injury more probable.
Law enforcement officers who are required to keep their firearms loaded and ready for use at all times, may do so, as long as the firearm is inaccessible to children.
Check with local law enforcement agencies about the availability of free or low cost trigger locks.

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Willow 12:28 PM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by laundrymom:
And here I've been gushing to my parents about hubs getting me a gun for Christmas. Lol. I even have been texting one dad about a grip issue I'm having, trying to get the shells NOT to hit me in the face! Ugh. Lol.
LOL!!!!

I've been consulting with two of my dcd's about one DH has had his eye on that I might surprise him with for Christmas (the others shoot brands I don't care for and we bicker enough about that ) Didn't think twice about bothering them and they've been so happy to help. I've won a handful of firearms at QDMA banquets but never bought one all on my own and tbh I'm a little unnerved about doing it!

It's hilarious how they just so happen to pick up and drop off more during deer, waterfowl and pheasant seasons too.....because their motivation totally isn't just to "talk shop" or anything about who was sitting where, who was seeing this that and the other and who was getting what

I'm pretty sure my business is MORE successful because of our much beloved hobby of hunting. Everyone knows everyone in this town, and I'm not joking when I say pretty much everyone hunts. It's been a great way to network and gives people a way to get to know me better. The newspaper actually runs a huge special edition printing every year with pictures of everyone's harvest, I've made it in three years in a row now, this year so did all of my dcd's and one of my dcm's. That's free advertising right there

I'd have no trouble leaving my kids with a provider that had a firearm as I'm very aware many of the houses we visit even just family and friend wise likely have firearms I'm sure I'm not even aware of. Doesn't stop us from visiting, just prompts us to raise the kids to be aware and responsible around them, especially in other peoples homes. If someone disclosed to me they had them, and the safety precautions they took to acknowledge they take the responsibility seriously, I'd say great and move on to what else I think it takes to keep my kids to make sure all basis are covered.


To the previous question:
BB gun - no
Paintball gun - no
Air soft - no

The key there is does is use a explosive/burning charge to propel a projectile. All of the above use pumped air to propel their projectiles. It's why none of them need to be registered.

Probably not a good idea to leave any out though, particularly the BB gun as most daycare licensors couldn't tell a real gun from a toy one much less a BB gun from a .22 on a good day. Some states do have particular laws on them so be aware of that.

I will add we also bow hunt and licensing requires I keep our bows cased and broadheads locked up separately with the firearm ammunition.




In regards to trigger locks we use them, they can be purchased cheaply online but often times your local law enforcement office will have them to hand out for free.
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Country Kids 12:30 PM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by littlemissmuffet:
I would never keep my child in a daycare that I knew had guns either. Someone can ssure me all they want that the gun and ammo are locked up and would never be in the reach of a child... but I would never truly know. I know one could argue that there are all kinds of dangerous items in a home at any given time (kitchen knives being one) that kids have easier access too and I'd never know - but it's my right as a parent to not want my child in a home I know has a gun in it.

I would never, however, dictate to the provider that they shouldn't have a gun in their home. I would simply let them know that it's not something I was comfortable with, would give appropriate notice and leave on my own accord.
Will your child never be able to visit friends home that have guns in them? Will you ask every friend your child makes if they have guns in the home? You maybe surprised how many people actually have guns in their homes. Also, do you realize how many people probably carry guns on them and you would never know? I saw a man the other day in Wal-mart with one just strapped to his side. My hubs said he probably had a permit for it-no he wasn't an officer either.
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Texasjeepgirl 12:41 PM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
Will your child never be able to visit friends home that have guns in them? Will you ask every friend your child makes if they have guns in the home? You maybe surprised how many people actually have guns in their homes. Also, do you realize how many people probably carry guns on them and you would never know? I saw a man the other day in Wal-mart with one just strapped to his side. My hubs said he probably had a permit for it-no he wasn't an officer either.
Some states have OPEN CARRY laws... ARIZONA has always been an OPEN CARRY State.
Apparently Oklahoma just passed an OPEN CARRY LAW... my husband was commenting about it just the other day because we live 5 miles from Oklahoma border... and frequently go over to the casino...

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spud912 12:51 PM 11-30-2012
My husband is in law enforcement so we do own a gun. The gun is kept on the top shelf in a lock and key safe and the bullets are kept in the office in our locked file cabinet. I am legally unlicensed but follow the licensing rules with guns. I don't disclose that I have guns unless the parents ask, to which I'm completely upfront and discuss our safety precautions that are in place.

As far as my comfort level with guns, I absolutely do not fear them at all, but I make sure my children respect them and what they are capable of. I've discussed with all of the daycare children what to do if they see something anywhere that resembles a gun (most importantly not to touch it and go tell an adult about it).

I suppose if a family has enough of an issue with our gun (which is far less dangerous for a small child compared to many other objects in my house due to our safety precautions and those found on the gun itself), then we are not the right fit for the family in the first place.
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spud912 12:53 PM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by Texasjeepgirl:
Some states have OPEN CARRY laws... ARIZONA has always been an OPEN CARRY State.
Apparently Oklahoma just passed an OPEN CARRY LAW... my husband was commenting about it just the other day because we live 5 miles from Oklahoma border... and frequently go over to the casino...
We recently passed a concealed carry law which allows people to carry a weapon concealed without any special training. The important thing to note is that these individuals must still pass a comprehensive background check prior to owning a gun in the first place.
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Blackcat31 01:41 PM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
Will your child never be able to visit friends home that have guns in them? Will you ask every friend your child makes if they have guns in the home? You maybe surprised how many people actually have guns in their homes. Also, do you realize how many people probably carry guns on them and you would never know? I saw a man the other day in Wal-mart with one just strapped to his side. My hubs said he probably had a permit for it-no he wasn't an officer either.
When my children were young I was VERY careful to ask if there were guns in any home they were going to be visiting or staying in.

It is something my DH and I felt strongly about at the time and none of the parents of friends my children had ever lied or were dishonest or taken a aback by us asking about any guns in their home.

We were asked by a few parents as well so I know we weren't the only ones.

In my state people can get a permit to carry a conceled weapon but most stores have signs stating that by law if you are carrying a gun, you need to check it at the entrance of the store or let them know you have one. Not sure about the law but I have seen the signs everywhere lately.
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littlemissmuffet 01:42 PM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
Will your child never be able to visit friends home that have guns in them? Will you ask every friend your child makes if they have guns in the home? You maybe surprised how many people actually have guns in their homes. Also, do you realize how many people probably carry guns on them and you would never know? I saw a man the other day in Wal-mart with one just strapped to his side. My hubs said he probably had a permit for it-no he wasn't an officer either.
Guns are not as common in Canada as they are in the US, but to answer your questions:

No, our child will not be able to stay at a friend's where there is a gun if myself or husband are not present.

I plan to build a report with my child's friends parents (just as my mother did with all my friends parents - and I had MANY friends, moving towns/schools yearly), so yes, I have every intention of checking to see if there are firearms in the home if they are planning on visiting or spending the night.

I do realize that people carry guns on them (I myself carry a knife at all time outside of the home) and I would never know, but there is a HUGE difference between my child walking by a stranger in WalMart who has a gun strapped to their side, than knowingly letting my child visit a home where there is a firearm - that my child COULD have potential access too. Accidents happen, all the time.
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e.j. 01:42 PM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
Will your child never be able to visit friends home that have guns in them? Will you ask every friend your child makes if they have guns in the home? You maybe surprised how many people actually have guns in their homes.
I know you addressed this to someone else but it reminded me of a situation my dd ran into at my brother's house. My brother and sil had invited my dd over to their house to play with my niece for the day. Both girls were about 11 at the time. That afternoon, my sil left the girls alone in the house to go pick up her son at work. While she was gone, a special weather report came on the tv saying we were under a tornado watch. After she got home, my dd told me that her cousin had become scared and ran into my brother and sil's bedroom. She came out waving a gun. (Don't ask me what she was thinking!) Thank God the gun wasn't loaded but if it had been, a horrible tragedy could have happened that day. I knew my brother owned a gun but he had always assured me that it was well hidden and that his kids had no idea where it was. After I heard what had happened, I made it a point to ask parents in any home my kids were invited to if they had guns. If they did, their kids were welcome in my home but I chose not to allow my kids to visit in their homes. I'm sure some thought I was being over-protective but I felt it just wasn't worth the potential risk. So...yeah....I would (and did) ask about guns in the home.
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Country Kids 01:49 PM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by littlemissmuffet:
Guns are not as common in Canada as they are in the US, but to answer your questions:

No, our child will not be able to stay at a friend's where there is a gun if myself or husband are not present.

I plan to build a report with my child's friends parents (just as my mother did with all my friends parents - and I had MANY friends, moving towns/schools yearly), so yes, I have every intention of checking to see if there are firearms in the home if they are planning on visiting or spending the night.

I do realize that people carry guns on them (I myself carry a knife at all time outside of the home) and I would never know, but there is a HUGE difference between my child walking by a stranger in WalMart who has a gun strapped to their side, than knowingly letting my child visit a home where there is a firearm - that my child COULD have potential access too. Accidents happen, all the time.
What kind of knife do you carry? The only reason I'm asking is-do you carry it when you have your daycare children with you when you go on field trips and such.

Don't you take your dck's places with you on public transit and do pretty long walks with them? I'm guessing you would then carry it with you then because your outside your home. Do you have to have a permit to do that and do you let your parents know?
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littlemissmuffet 01:58 PM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
What kind of knife do you carry? The only reason I'm asking is-do you carry it when you have your daycare children with you when you go on field trips and such.

Don't you take your dck's places with you on public transit and do pretty long walks with them? I'm guessing you would then carry it with you then because your outside your home. Do you have to have a permit to do that and do you let your parents know?
I carry a locking pocket knife which I can legally carry concealed at all times. Yes, I carry it whenever I am out of the house - with or without my daycare children. Yes, my daycare parents know about the knife, and there is a section in my handbook which outlines this very issue.
I am not sure how this relates to the gun-issue, however?
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daycare 02:12 PM 11-30-2012
I have not read every response, but I do know that most people who are afraid of them is only because they are not educated about them. Well I guess I could say that about most things....

I grew up where it's normal to see machine guns being carried down the street by young children, but I also did not grow up here.


One of my good friends dated a guy from Indy and he had a young son age 4. All he would talk about is how much he wanted to take his son hunting. My friend, a city girl just could not relate to the dad's desire to take his 4 year old hunting and actually broke up with him.... OMG...but it's because they grew up in two totally different places. No 4 year old would be seen in SF with a gun trying to hunt...lol

I think that you have done all that you can, maybe try to educate her a little is the only thing that I can say and let her know that you are staying in compliance with all of the rules of being a gun owner with a daycare.
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Childminder 03:08 PM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by littlemissmuffet:
I carry a locking pocket knife which I can legally carry concealed at all times. Yes, I carry it whenever I am out of the house - with or without my daycare children. Yes, my daycare parents know about the knife, and there is a section in my handbook which outlines this very issue.
I am not sure how this relates to the gun-issue, however?
IMHO it relates in that it is a weapon. Even a butter knife is not allowed within the schools in our community to cut a birthday cake. Potential weapon.
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Country Kids 03:41 PM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by Childminder:
IMHO it relates in that it is a weapon. Even a butter knife is not allowed within the schools in our community to cut a birthday cake. Potential weapon.
Yes, that is exactly what I was thinking-its still a weapon as a gun is.


I think how people zero in on guns but not all the other dangers/oddities of a persons house or their surroundings.

A friend of mine was visiting a friends house and the first thing she noticed on the coffee table was several "Mens" magazines. Not your average coffee table book but I guess this was the norm for this family. Prominent family and all but thats what they chose to have out.

When people ask about if there are guns in the house do you also ask about alcohol/maybe drugs/other weapons (sword,knifes) that children seem to always find.

I think you take your life more in your hands being out in the public not knowing what people are carrying strapped to their sides then when visiting a house that has a gun.

None of those people had the chance to ask at Colenbine,Virginia Tech, The shooting in Colorado, the shooting in Texas at the base, and then today there was an incident with a bow and arrow. None of those people had the chance to ask-hey are you carrying a weapon.

We want to drill education in our children heads-the best education to start off with-Real Life. Life skills and education on safety. All types including gun safety. I was shocked when I was reading a Hunters Safety Manual they actual had a portion to "Don't look down the barrel of a gun"- I always thought commen sense would tell you that.

When I was little we always had a loaded gun next to my parents bed. I NEVER even thought about touching that gun as I knew the consequences of it. More people were killed in farm machine accidents then guns.

So education is the key-not fear!
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littlemissmuffet 03:47 PM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by Childminder:
IMHO it relates in that it is a weapon. Even a butter knife is not allowed within the schools in our community to cut a birthday cake. Potential weapon.
I understand that it's a weapon, but in my opinion ANYTHING can be used as a weapon. A child is going to be exposed to knives on a regular basis for their entire lives... guns, not so much. Also, the chances of a fatality from a knife accident involving a child is much slimmer than a fatality from a gun accident involving a child.
A child would not be able to open my knife as it auto safety locks, but if a parent had an issue with having their child in my home because my husband and I both carry knives I would completely respect and understand that!
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Willow 04:05 PM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by Childminder:
IMHO it relates in that it is a weapon. Even a butter knife is not allowed within the schools in our community to cut a birthday cake. Potential weapon.
Add to that, there is no way to disengage the blade of a knife.

I would argue a pocket knife in a providers pants pocket is a far more dangerous implement than an unloaded, trigger locked firearm secured in a fireproof locked safe with ammo stored separately in another locked box on a completely different floor than the daycare children are ever on would ever be.
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Willow 04:07 PM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by littlemissmuffet:
A child would not be able to open my knife as it auto safety locks,
And a child would be able to shoot an unloaded gun....with a trigger lock....in a locked safe....on a different floor than they ever set foot on.....??
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daycare 04:12 PM 11-30-2012
I always say, if I can't open it.....Give it to a child. they always find a way..

I have to agree with Willow on this one.
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Crystal 04:17 PM 11-30-2012
Wow. Another derailed, gone off-topic thread! Imagine that!

The debate about knives is far from relevant to the OP's initial concern.
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littlemissmuffet 04:22 PM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by Willow:
And a child would be able to shoot an unloaded gun....with a trigger lock....in a locked safe....on a different floor than they ever set foot on.....??
I can trust what happens in MY home, I can't trust what happens in someone else's home when I'm not there

And I agree with Crystal, this thread has totally gone off topic - sorry I contributed to that!
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Willow 04:22 PM 11-30-2012
Sometimes birdwalks are quite relevant and can actually lead to great discussions.

I fail to see why that's such an awful thing.



LMM - and to repeat, just because I'm on the other side of the fence doesn't mean I don't support your decision. There was a time I felt the exact same way believe it or not.

Every parent is entitled to do what they need to do to feel assured their child is as safe as they possibly can be, heck, it's their responsibility to do just that.
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littlemissmuffet 04:24 PM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by Willow:
Add to that, there is no way to disengage the blade of a knife.

I would argue a pocket knife in a providers pants pocket is a far more dangerous implement than an unloaded, trigger locked firearm secured in a fireproof locked safe with ammo stored separately in another locked box on a completely different floor than the daycare children are ever on would ever be.
You can argue all you like I obviously disagree. And this conversation has absolutely NOTHING to do with the OP's post or the fact that I too would not want my child in a daycare that had a gun. Why people are attacking me because of this personal decision is beyond me!
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bunnyslippers 04:33 PM 11-30-2012
OK...so this went way off track. I appreciate everyone's feedback. I am happy to report that the mom and I had a lovely conversation, and she has come "down off the panic ledge" as she put it.

We had a frank discussino about the whole issue. I have offered to let her meet with my husband to further discuss the whole thing, but she has declined and is more than comfortable with allowing me to continue to care for her little nugget.

Lesson learned here: be a little more close to the chest with personal info, stick to my guns about things I believe in, and be honest and forthcoming with any information that may impact a family in my care.

Thanks Ladies. Now let's all just be friends and put this away ~ I do appreciate your help and used much of your advice to get my head in the right spot for this.
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littlemissmuffet 06:57 PM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by bunnyslippers:
OK...so this went way off track. I appreciate everyone's feedback. I am happy to report that the mom and I had a lovely conversation, and she has come "down off the panic ledge" as she put it.

We had a frank discussino about the whole issue. I have offered to let her meet with my husband to further discuss the whole thing, but she has declined and is more than comfortable with allowing me to continue to care for her little nugget.

Lesson learned here: be a little more close to the chest with personal info, stick to my guns about things I believe in, and be honest and forthcoming with any information that may impact a family in my care.

Thanks Ladies. Now let's all just be friends and put this away ~ I do appreciate your help and used much of your advice to get my head in the right spot for this.
Hehehehe. I had to.

I am super happy all worked out well and DCM has decided to stay with you. It was wonderful of you to offer your husband to have a chat with her. You handled this situation wonderfully all around, kudos to you!
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mom2many 07:35 PM 11-30-2012
I'm glad it worked out for you! I understand the concern and it's great that you were able to reassure her and that the she feels okay with it all! I'm happy she listened and thought about it and decided not to leave.
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SilverSabre25 09:00 PM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by bunnyslippers:

Lesson learned here: be a little more close to the chest with personal info, stick to my guns about things I believe in, and be honest and forthcoming with any information that may impact a family in my care.
Nice pun :P Was that purposeful?
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