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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Oppositional Defiance Disorder
Justjoy 10:26 AM 07-21-2017
Have any of you dealt with this? I have a 4 1/2 yr old girl who I've been watching since the age of 3. She shows me nothing but disrespect, back talk, defiance, etc. And then she'll turn on a dime and tell me, "I love you."
I've talked to her father and grandmother until I'm blue in the face about it, and I know there is really not much that can be done. I will be watching her for almost another year until she starts school and I really don't know if I can do it without losing my sanity.
Termination would be difficult, as the father of the child is a friend of some of my family and the grandmother and I have become friends.
Any suggestions?
I've talked to her father and grandmother until I'm blue in the face about it, and I know there is really not much that can be done. I will be watching her for almost another year until she starts school and I really don't know if I can do it without losing my sanity.
Termination would be difficult, as the father of the child is a friend of some of my family and the grandmother and I have become friends.
Any suggestions?
ColorfulSunburst 10:39 AM 07-21-2017
you have only two options:
1. terminate
2. don't terminate.
The choice is yours
1. terminate
2. don't terminate.
The choice is yours
Pestle 10:43 AM 07-21-2017
I wouldn't diagnose ODD spectrum from home, especially for a child that young.
"Termination would be difficult, as the father of the child is a friend of some of my family and the grandmother and I have become friends."
That is not a close relationship. That's "friend-of-a-friend" and "person I know through work." It's uncomfortable to terminate, sure, because you're working against social conditioning that you're supposed to do favors, fix things, and make nice instead of disengaging from problems involving people in your social circle.
But sometimes disengaging is the best solution. Those relationships are not worth the cross-pollination of bad behavior that will get all the kids in your program treating you in a way you find unacceptable. They're not worth losing those other kids when their own parents find their behavior, which they learned in your program, unacceptable. And they're not worth the sadness and frustration that you feel when looking ahead at the next year.
I vote terminate, simply and gracefully, "due to ongoing behavioral issues."
But if you decide to keep her, you need to have another plan. What you've been doing isn't working, so it's time to abandon plan A.
Here are a couple of books that could be very helpful:
The Explosive Child will help you pinpoint which behaviors are creating the biggest problems, and decide how and in which order to tackle them. The author makes the point that a diagnosis or a label isn't always helpful; targeting the behaviors is more likely to help.
No Biting is a book for care providers that walks you through creating a behavioral plan and getting the parents on board. While its focus is obviously on biting, I've found it extremely helpful for other behaviors, too. It helps providers to see negative behaviors from a new perspective, consider environmental and developmental factors they may not have noticed, and avoid blaming and anger.
"Termination would be difficult, as the father of the child is a friend of some of my family and the grandmother and I have become friends."
That is not a close relationship. That's "friend-of-a-friend" and "person I know through work." It's uncomfortable to terminate, sure, because you're working against social conditioning that you're supposed to do favors, fix things, and make nice instead of disengaging from problems involving people in your social circle.
But sometimes disengaging is the best solution. Those relationships are not worth the cross-pollination of bad behavior that will get all the kids in your program treating you in a way you find unacceptable. They're not worth losing those other kids when their own parents find their behavior, which they learned in your program, unacceptable. And they're not worth the sadness and frustration that you feel when looking ahead at the next year.
I vote terminate, simply and gracefully, "due to ongoing behavioral issues."
But if you decide to keep her, you need to have another plan. What you've been doing isn't working, so it's time to abandon plan A.
Here are a couple of books that could be very helpful:
The Explosive Child will help you pinpoint which behaviors are creating the biggest problems, and decide how and in which order to tackle them. The author makes the point that a diagnosis or a label isn't always helpful; targeting the behaviors is more likely to help.
No Biting is a book for care providers that walks you through creating a behavioral plan and getting the parents on board. While its focus is obviously on biting, I've found it extremely helpful for other behaviors, too. It helps providers to see negative behaviors from a new perspective, consider environmental and developmental factors they may not have noticed, and avoid blaming and anger.
Justjoy 10:50 AM 07-21-2017
I will definitely check out those books. And look into other ways to deal with this problem. I've tried everything I know to do, to no avail. I raised an ADHD child and he was a piece of cake compared to this little girl
Pestle 11:20 AM 07-21-2017
I had a pair of siblings right after I opened--they were more than a handful. I tried everything. Then I saw the dynamic at their home and realized things would only get worse, not better. So I terminated care. And my life is so much happier now, and the other kids are unstressed here at my day care.
(One of the siblings bit me on the butt, hard enough to leave a mark for four days, right as we finished up our last day together. I was like, "Yep. That sums it up.")
(One of the siblings bit me on the butt, hard enough to leave a mark for four days, right as we finished up our last day together. I was like, "Yep. That sums it up.")
LVG 11:23 AM 07-21-2017
What have you already tried in order to curb the behavior? I taught special ed for 9 years and worked with kids that had ODD and Autism. Maybe I can offer some suggestions, but curious what you've already tried?
MarinaVanessa 04:42 PM 07-21-2017
Ugh yes, I've had plenty of experience ... with my own DD.
I do agree that at that age it's too young to diagnose, it can be typical behavior for some young toddlers attributed more to temperament and lack of self regulation skills.
ODD also means that the child is defiant towards any type of authority pretty much at all times. That would mean the child would be defiant towards the parents, you, other adults etc. all of the time ... not just sometimes.
For my DD (who was borderline ODD) occupational and behavioral therapy worked and later an aid in school. She got her first behavioral therapist in preschool but wasn't diagnosed until first grade and she started behavioral therapy that year too, she's 12 now. Also a change in her diet, regular RIGOROUS exercise (A LOT of play time with a lot of cardio) and medication. At its' worse she was physical with her siblings my DH and I.
After YEARS of therapy she no longer needs an aid or an occupational therapist and her meds have been reduced but she still needs weekly behavioral therapy sessions.
She's no longer considered ODD but she still has a tendency to steal, lie and to be disrespectful to us and other family members. It's not ODD because she knows to behave differently with teachers, police officers, friends' parents etc.
I do agree that at that age it's too young to diagnose, it can be typical behavior for some young toddlers attributed more to temperament and lack of self regulation skills.
ODD also means that the child is defiant towards any type of authority pretty much at all times. That would mean the child would be defiant towards the parents, you, other adults etc. all of the time ... not just sometimes.
For my DD (who was borderline ODD) occupational and behavioral therapy worked and later an aid in school. She got her first behavioral therapist in preschool but wasn't diagnosed until first grade and she started behavioral therapy that year too, she's 12 now. Also a change in her diet, regular RIGOROUS exercise (A LOT of play time with a lot of cardio) and medication. At its' worse she was physical with her siblings my DH and I.
After YEARS of therapy she no longer needs an aid or an occupational therapist and her meds have been reduced but she still needs weekly behavioral therapy sessions.
She's no longer considered ODD but she still has a tendency to steal, lie and to be disrespectful to us and other family members. It's not ODD because she knows to behave differently with teachers, police officers, friends' parents etc.
Mad_Pistachio 07:17 AM 07-22-2017
Originally Posted by Pestle:
No Biting is a book for care providers that walks you through creating a behavioral plan and getting the parents on board. While its focus is obviously on biting, I've found it extremely helpful for other behaviors, too. It helps providers to see negative behaviors from a new perspective, consider environmental and developmental factors they may not have noticed, and avoid blaming and anger.
I am seriously tempted to give this book as a gift to my DC director. her 3-yo class has a biter that has bitten at least 5 kids in the last month or so, and they are at their wit's end. we all suspect ASD with the kid, but there was no formal evaluation, and parents won't listen to us.No Biting is a book for care providers that walks you through creating a behavioral plan and getting the parents on board. While its focus is obviously on biting, I've found it extremely helpful for other behaviors, too. It helps providers to see negative behaviors from a new perspective, consider environmental and developmental factors they may not have noticed, and avoid blaming and anger.
okay, I will at least tell her that there is a book about biting. if she does get interested, I'll buy it for her.
Unregistered 03:52 PM 07-22-2017
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
Ugh yes, I've had plenty of experience ... with my own DD.
I do agree that at that age it's too young to diagnose, it can be typical behavior for some young toddlers attributed more to temperament and lack of self regulation skills.
ODD also means that the child is defiant towards any type of authority pretty much at all times. That would mean the child would be defiant towards the parents, you, other adults etc. all of the time ... not just sometimes.
For my DD (who was borderline ODD) occupational and behavioral therapy worked and later an aid in school. She got her first behavioral therapist in preschool but wasn't diagnosed until first grade and she started behavioral therapy that year too, she's 12 now. Also a change in her diet, regular RIGOROUS exercise (A LOT of play time with a lot of cardio) and medication. At its' worse she was physical with her siblings my DH and I.
After YEARS of therapy she no longer needs an aid or an occupational therapist and her meds have been reduced but she still needs weekly behavioral therapy sessions.
She's no longer considered ODD but she still has a tendency to steal, lie and to be disrespectful to us and other family members. It's not ODD because she knows to behave differently with teachers, police officers, friends' parents etc.
My kid was diagnosed with ODD too, but she is ONLY LIKE THIS at home! She is usually pretty good at school (except ONCE in a great while) and behaves a whole lot better in her dance classes than some other kids even older than her (granted, this is her LIFE, she says, so maybe bc of that?) Ugh yes, I've had plenty of experience ... with my own DD.
I do agree that at that age it's too young to diagnose, it can be typical behavior for some young toddlers attributed more to temperament and lack of self regulation skills.
ODD also means that the child is defiant towards any type of authority pretty much at all times. That would mean the child would be defiant towards the parents, you, other adults etc. all of the time ... not just sometimes.
For my DD (who was borderline ODD) occupational and behavioral therapy worked and later an aid in school. She got her first behavioral therapist in preschool but wasn't diagnosed until first grade and she started behavioral therapy that year too, she's 12 now. Also a change in her diet, regular RIGOROUS exercise (A LOT of play time with a lot of cardio) and medication. At its' worse she was physical with her siblings my DH and I.
After YEARS of therapy she no longer needs an aid or an occupational therapist and her meds have been reduced but she still needs weekly behavioral therapy sessions.
She's no longer considered ODD but she still has a tendency to steal, lie and to be disrespectful to us and other family members. It's not ODD because she knows to behave differently with teachers, police officers, friends' parents etc.
I always thought it was a crap, bs diagnosis, because I never felt she really met the criteria. She's always been extremely difficult to handle (well at least from about 3 onward, she was a SUPER laid back and easy baby!) , cries one minute, happy another, angry another, defiant with us a lot, and NOTHING is EVER "her" fault. Even with limits, etc. We say no and discipline and don't put up with it, but there have been times she's been so rotten, I wanted to put her in emergency live-in therapy for 30 days!
What do people do in these situations? Like the OP, heck I am lost as a mom!
Pestle 04:37 PM 07-22-2017
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
My kid was diagnosed with ODD too, but she is ONLY LIKE THIS at home! She is usually pretty good at school (except ONCE in a great while) and behaves a whole lot better in her dance classes than some other kids even older than her (granted, this is her LIFE, she says, so maybe bc of that?)
I always thought it was a crap, bs diagnosis, because I never felt she really met the criteria. She's always been extremely difficult to handle (well at least from about 3 onward, she was a SUPER laid back and easy baby!) , cries one minute, happy another, angry another, defiant with us a lot, and NOTHING is EVER "her" fault. Even with limits, etc. We say no and discipline and don't put up with it, but there have been times she's been so rotten, I wanted to put her in emergency live-in therapy for 30 days!
What do people do in these situations? Like the OP, heck I am lost as a mom!
How old is she?My kid was diagnosed with ODD too, but she is ONLY LIKE THIS at home! She is usually pretty good at school (except ONCE in a great while) and behaves a whole lot better in her dance classes than some other kids even older than her (granted, this is her LIFE, she says, so maybe bc of that?)
I always thought it was a crap, bs diagnosis, because I never felt she really met the criteria. She's always been extremely difficult to handle (well at least from about 3 onward, she was a SUPER laid back and easy baby!) , cries one minute, happy another, angry another, defiant with us a lot, and NOTHING is EVER "her" fault. Even with limits, etc. We say no and discipline and don't put up with it, but there have been times she's been so rotten, I wanted to put her in emergency live-in therapy for 30 days!
What do people do in these situations? Like the OP, heck I am lost as a mom!
Does she have any other diagnoses?
Have you been working regularly with a behavioral therapist who's familiar with ODD?
I'm not familiar enough with ODD to help you out, but there are some environmental factors that can make a big difference in a host of behavioral issues. You may already have looked at all of these:
What time do you start winding down for bed?
Does she watch TV before bed?
What time do the lights go out?
Is it the same time every night?
How many hours of sleep is she getting each day?
Are meals on a regular schedule?
Same eating schedule at home as at school?
Same diet at home as at school?
Does she start her day with a protein-heavy breakfast?
What physical activity does she get in the morning on the weekends?
On the weekdays?
Is there a particular time of day when her behavior is the most challenging?
And have you already picked up "The Explosive Child"? If not, you definitely should!