Hello all! Long time forum peruser, first time thread starter here. I opened my doors 2 months ago as a DCP working outside of my home in a dedicated daycare building. My setup is geared primarily towards birth-6 years. We have no tv, no video games even on the premises. I plan on keeping this way (chose to do this, it's not that we haven't gotten around to it yet, we just will not be offering those "services").

So, recently a dcp in our area fell ill and unfortunately passed away. I have taken all of her dck that were displaced. The problem is I'm having a hard time filling her shoes.

The town that we live in is less than 1000 and there was nowhere for anybody to go except the new place in town. I have my kids, plus 3 ft dck and 3 sa (plus more sa when summer rolls around). One family is a family of 4, one is ft and 3 are sa. The sa kids take full time slots because of the short school weeks in our area. I did not anticipate it would affect me so much but unfortunately it is and I wonder every day if I chose to open in the right town.

Anyways...single parent of 4 kids is always using my phone. He tells people on the other line that if they need him just to call and leave a message with me, because I'm his babysitter, and I can get a message to him (don't get me started that he referred to me as his b-word). He leaves personal items for the children at the premises (back packs, random clothes, glasses, etc.). He randomly drops off paperwork and asks me to hold onto it for him (though it doesn't have anything to do with daycare). The children are very dirty and have an odor that is leaving the building smelling bad and making me smell bad. They play rough, hit, run, yell, scream, and have no regard for following any rules I set.

My rules are simple:be careful around the littles, don't take toys away from anybody, no hitting, no running in the building (because others are getting mowed over and hurt), and respect people's property (ie, we are walking to school, stay off people's retaining walls and stop pulling other people's vegetable garden plants and throwing them on the ground and stomping on them), oh and stay together when we are walking so we are all together, safe, and accounted for.

Well...my problem is this... I'm not a secretary and have more than enough of my own paperwork to try and keep track of. I'm not a messaging service, I have a business to run. I don't want totes of your kids's clothes here because even though I have the space...if the clothes are here, they obviously aren't wearing several pairs home so therefore it is my responsibility to wash them I'm imagining (though it hasn't been said, why else would you store your clothes here?). I don't have a washer and dryer on premises, and it's not my job, and I don't want more of the odor.

Anyways...the whole town looks after these kids. Everybody knows them, everybody knows their clothes/shoe sizes, everybody knows the dad needs extra help...but I didn't sign up for this. The children coming as they are is neglect and is reportable, and I'm a mandatory reporter. I'm also a grade A pushover. I don't know how to say no, I don't know how to stand up for myself, and I don't know how to set boundaries with other adults because I feel I'm in the wrong. I guess those points don't make me best for daycare do they? I'm concerned the littles will get hurt by these bumbling 12 y/o school children...but I'm scared to boot them because I'm afraid that people in town will label me as a b-word and never seek business with me in the future...but if I keep the kids around I'll lose potential clients because of cleanliness issues as well as safety issues. I know I need to tell dad that I can't do this regardless of what his old dcp did, but I just don't know how to say anything.

Oh, and some of my friends suggested bathing the kids, but I can't because this building has no shower facilities...and obviously there is an issue of inappropriateness due to their "advanced age." If this was you, what would you do? In case anybody was wondering, monetarily I could terminate the family as I'm on the food program and food is reimbursed, but also it only takes one ft child to pay the rent. And yes, toys are getting broken so there is an added cost to keeping the family as well (all brand new toys btw). Sorry for the rant, I'll stop at this, but please, any advice on how to approach the situation with dad would be helpful. Sincerely - frustrated newbie.

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there is nothing WE can do....all this is up to YOU. Revamp your contract to reflect the issues you are having. Sit down with Dad and have this conversation with him about what will and will not be allowed. Either he can get it together or he cant. Its not your job to raise these kids nor is it your job to sacrifice your business for the sake of one family. You are going to be so resentful of your job and this whole town if you cant get it under control. What is more important to you....the future of the daycare or what small town folk might say about you? You have to decide. I think you already know what to do. Give Dad the chance to get it together and then if he cant, term. Its not "mean" to hold Dad to some basic standards.

Do you even want to keep these kids even if Dad gets his stuff together?

BTW, I would never launder personal items, bathe children, take messages, etc, etc.

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I hate to day it but you will have to get a back bone in this business or you will never make it. Start by something simple. Put a sign up by the phone that says "Only for Office Personnel". --or "not for personal use".......If people call for him say "you have the wrong number". Remember it's not the kids fault. Start with dad. Get him straight on the rules. Only you can do this. It doesn't matter how many live on your town or where you live. Business is business and YOU have to start make it that. Good luck!

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Aw, Hun...good for you for wanting to help and do the right thing but honestly, this dad is walking all over you and you are letting him.

I know it is hard, but stop. Set some boundaries and stick to them. Use whatever means you have to do it. For example, tell dad that licensing does not allow you to keep items (other than ONE set of spare clothes) on site or that you are not allowed to take phone calls and messages for parents.

Overall, this family is hurting you MORE than helping so if I were in your shoes and really didn't want to do the hard work it IS going to take to set the necessary boundaries and then stick with them, I would just term them and be done with it.

It sounds as if this dad is used to the village raising his kids and sees nothing wrong with doing all these things he is doing or rather having you do. I honestly don't see him changing if the entire town has been enabling him for this long. Where is the mom in this picture?

I don't think the town would look at you badly for doing something that many (if not most) of them already wish they had the balls to do...which is STOP catering to them.

If you need anything, advice, help with a term letter, or whatever...feel free to PM me at any time. I too run my business out of a separate building and it does bring with it a separate set of issues. Either way, if you need anything...just drop me a PM and I will do my best to help you out

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At 5:45 this morning dad was told the following: if you would like to continue care, the kids must be bathed and in clean clothes, the kids must do as they are told and stop hitting and be respectful, my phone is not a message phone. I shook like a leaf the whole time. But I got most everything out. My problem its I'm opinionated but always feel I'm over reacting and therefore have a hard time standingmy ground.i want to succeed, and I feel bad that I don't want to be a charity (i feel like I should want to, but I dont) anyways, we will see where this goes. I also wrote a letter stating that his son assaultedanother child in daycare today (smacked him across the temple) and that if the problem continues I will need need to terminate care.

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Good for you! I also know EXACTLY what you mean about feeling like we should be charitable but don't always WANT to. I am also pretty opinionated but I think as long as the communication is open and your aren't unwilling to learn and grow, that being opinionated isn't that bad.

I often spend a lot of time bouncing ideas and stuff off of my DH and he will usually be pretty good at giving me a different perspective so that I know it isn't just me....

I hope dad takes you seriously because we all know stating your rules and policies is only one part of this job, enforcing them is a whole 'nother ball game. Hoping all goes well for you. Keep us posted.

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I'm sorry this is happening to you. I don't know if you saw my thread, but we are in a very similar situation. It IS hard, especially when your personality says "try to get along" and you are in a situation that you can't.

I hope Dad understands and makes a big change, but in all honesty, I doubt he will (just as I doubt mine will). I don't like terminating, but I HAVE learned that in these situations if you DON'T term, it can come back to kick you in the be-hind!

{{{{HUGS}}}}

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I knew that you couldn't do anything, I was just asking for nice ways to approach the situation. I do appreciate all your feedback and your support. I realize I have to grow a back bone. All my life I've worked for people and never stood up for myself when things would get pushed on me. Now I have to, and in some ways I think that might be yet another reason that I went to work for myself. When dad came today to get the kids and had seen that I had not picked them up early from school yet because I was feeding the others, he just stood there and looked at me...I told him he would be faster as he has a vehicle and I only walk his children back to the daycare...I will not, after all of this, let them in my car. Anyways, when he came back at the end of the day, I sneakily handed him a garbage bag full of clothes and said all sing-song "here are clothes that need washed dad" and I will not allow more to come in, I'll just turn them away at the door. The kids's back packs have been moved to a back room that I do not use for daycare (it holds my fire panel and the electric panel but other than that it's got cracked concrete and peeling paint and all that jazz that I have not addressed yet (and only so much of it will be addressed as this is a rental property)...it is not used for daycare and is of no harm to the children. This way the smell can be quarantined. Also, dad was specifically reminded as he was leaving...bring the kids bathed and in clean clothes or I will send them right back out with you (I'm scared he's going to do a dump and run as he has done this a few times...that is another thing we will be addressing). The case worker has been apprised that he has been threatened with termination (I only let them know because they were pushing so hard to get him in here so he didn't have to drive even more miles out to another town for daycare). They understand the situation and my stance on it. There was another incident with the youngest smacking my son really hard in the temple. I warned dad about that, said it needs to be taken care of...he laughs and says the previous provider had a problem with that too. That was the first thing in my handbook, behavioral problems that become consistent such has hitting or biting that could put other children in danger are grounds for immediate termination. So...I know I still have a long way to go, I still have a lot more ground to cover, but the framework is laid out. I am sure this family will be gone soon regardless of everybody's feelings. So, I'll keep you all updated as to how my backbone strengthens! Thanks again, have a great day!

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Atta girl! Good for you! Keep it up and things will get much easier.

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ok lets start with you saving 4 openings and getting paid for 1 child... It is not your problem if he fails to plan.

They pay for 1 f/t opening then that is what they have.... IF you have room on an school closing day then you MIGHT take them. I would tell them if they want to know there is room they must pay for it every week.

That will solve your problem dcd will pull the kids and you will fill with better kids. If you do not you will be out income, parents will pull their children and he will hurt someone and YOU will be responsible

You are running YOUR business not the other childcare Follow YOUR rules.

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good for you OP! very happy for you and keep us updated

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Dad has asked me to bring a tv in to keep his kids occupied and out of trouble, this is against what I want in my daycare. I was going to oblige because I was thinking about the extra money I will lose terming the family...however, I realize if I term them now, I will make the same amount by keeping one child full time that I have taken on only temporary as her normal provider is out with major illness. I advised that I couldn't offer full-time permanent care because I'm full for the summer. However, the $450/month and the ability to keep the child all year round and open up a couple more spots for full time care. Due to escalating violence with the children I have decided it best to terminate the oldest 3 children but am more than willing to keep the youngest. The children ball up their fists and aim for the temples, one has hit my daughter, leaving a welt. One has attacked my son, leaving a welt. And today they oldest two were pretending to punch a 2 year old in the face and stopping literally before their fist hit. Yes, I was supervising as best I could with afull house. I was helping one child with homework, turned around and saw this. Thankfully no contact was made and the child wasn't scared. So, the family will receive termination letter tomorrow and will be given two weeks regardless of the predicament of finding care. How does this sound?

Dear ________,
Due to liability concerns which we have spoke about over the last week, I have decided I will no longer be able to provide care for ___, ____, ____. Effective (such and such a date) care will be terminated for these children. This includes before and after school as well as summer care. Care will be available for ___ until such a time that child reaches the age of 8 years old.

Sincerely,
blah blah blah (that's me).

I've never written a termination letter and quite frankly had hoped that I wouldn't have to write one for at least a year, but unfortunately things happen. I have, however, learned my lesson and will not be providing care for any "advanced age" children ever again. Your help with this letter is much appreciated! Thanks.

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I would not write in the part of the youngest having care till 8 years old because that sounds like a commitment to me......"Care will be available for ______ provided you and he are able to follow all of the policies of the XYZ daycare in the future. Lastly, care will be immediately terminated for _____, _____, _____ should any of the policies of the XYZ daycare be broken within the two week notice period, specifically our policies regarding aggressive behavior towards other children."

you dont want to get stuck with 2 weeks of hell with these older kids because they and dad no longer have any motivation to follow any rules.

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I wouldn't even give them two weeks if these kids are aiming for the temples. They obviously know that is the spot to go for and they are dangerous.

Kelly

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I agree with Cheerfuldom....DON'T include the part about care until 8 years old as that makes it too easy for dad to assume you are PROMISING him something you may not be able to deliver. I like how Cheer worded it above.

I also agree with Kelly, if this family hasn't paid a deposit or pre-paid for any upcoming care, I would term TODAY and not look back. If I were another parent in your program and knew you were keeping violent children with that kind of behavior, I would be LIVID!!!! Don't let these kids be near any other kids if they play so rough....that is such a liability for you and such a risk for your other daycare kids.

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I completely agree I should have terminated immediately, but I didn't decide to until after he left. Now I feel 2 weeks are in order but immediate if it happens again. Looks like a family of 3 might leave if this happens which I was worried about. She says today that she totally understand bites and bruises from daycare because kids are learning to express themselves. I'm so peeved parents would say that because I would be livid if my kids came home from daycare with the welts they had from being smacked in temples.I'm upset that any of this is happening. Parent may say it's fine and dandy...unless her infants noise got brokebecause kids were "learnig to express themselves". I mean nose, phone is acting up! I was thinking that the age sounded like a commitment as well and had changed it. I like all of your suggestions. Thank you so much

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This family of 3 might leave if you term this violent family? or leave if they mean kids hit again?

I also understand you wanting to give two weeks notice, but I would consider adding in a claus to cover another incident such as giving the two weeks notice but if ANY of the kids hits or touches another child, they will need to go IMMEDIATLEY without any further delay. Your obligation should always be the safety of ALL children first and foremost.

I think you can walk away from this whole thing once it is over and feel good that you did what you could and aren't part of enabling this dad to allow his children to continue behaving in such a negative manner. Hang in there...this kind of stuff is always tough.

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Might leave if I term violent family. I agree everybodys safety trumps a family's need and one other family s views. I might be left with 2 kids after this is over but it will have been the right decision. The immediate termination bit will be added no doubt about it.

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Just want to chime in with my support. I've been operating in a very small town for a year now and I totally get it.....and I sympathize with you immensely. Just know, you are absolutely doing the right thing, even if it's hard to see through the fear of social reprocussions.


If another of your families wants to leave due to your decision to terminate then let them. Stand firm. It is not at all normal for kids to get pummeled and bit up at daycare. If that's what they expect let them bring their child elsewhere, I would be very punchy about my stance - "THAT IS NOT ALLOWED TO HAPPEN TO CHILDREN HERE - if you want to subject your child to violence like that there's the door."

Do not look back and do not feel bad. You deserve far more respect than that, demand it, especially if you've got a reputation you're trying to form in your town. What's the worst she could say? "Daycare provider won't let another child punch my child in the head.....such unreasonable expectations...." I'm not even sure I'd know how to respond if someone ever came to me with such a complaint. It's beyond laughable, and on some level disturbing as heck too. If anything, people will hear of your "unreasonable expectations" and come FLOCKING!


If the mother insists or puts up any more of a fuss suggest SHE take the kids into HER home. It's always so easy to judge someone else when you've never once been in their shoes.


Stay strong!!!!

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Due to a series of unfortunate events the termination letter was not given until today, the family has until 18th to find alternate care. Parent comes to pick up at end of day asking if I tried setting them in front of a tv...which turned to tears and begging me just to set them in front of the tv all day. My decision before opening was to not offer a tv at all. And if I bring in a tv the only place I can put it is in my office and then the kids are not in my line of site and my records would be in jeapordy. Anyways, I just dont offer it.i would have to get atv, a video player of sorts, lots of videos to keep them busy, and a couch and stuff to make it comfortable.thats a lot of money and it won't fix the problem. The moment we turn tv off, we a have problem again...plus other kids will beg to watch...and since our playground is not right outside, getting them away from tv so we can go outside will be a problem. I know I need to stand my ground, but I feel bad too. Am I wrong to not provide tv to this family to avoid their kids hitting the others?btw afterdad left, one punched my child in the temple again...he chased him playfully, I asked thenmto stop runningthen he caught my son and punched him, totally unprovoked. Omg.

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Um, no. You are not wrong at all. Your daycare, your rules. I can't imagine any reputable place of care would allow tv as a means of "distracting" a child. If you don't allow a tv, that's your rule, you don't allow a tv. Parents should not be trying to convince you to buy one, OMG. This dad is just oozing with audacity, with everything that you've said, from him using your phone and saying that people can call there for him, as though you were working for him in an office...good grief. I would have presented dad with a lovely IMMEDIATE term letter the day after he pulled the phone bit. If he had asked me to buy a tv, I would have said something to the effect of, "I can see that this care situation is not going to work out, I am releasing you effective immediately, I wish you all the best".

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"No" is a complete sentence.

"That doesn't work for me" is a legitimate answer, as well as "Regulations do not allow that."

"This isn't a good for us, and I wish you the best of luck."

Honey, he's begging and crying because he knows no one else will take his kids -- because of HIM, really. No one else will put up with all the stuff the father does, never mind about the kids. They could be the best, easiest, most mild-mannered kids ever and the father is still a huge problem.

Remember, this is a business. You have the right to create and enforce rules, both for safety and your peace of mind.

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I just wanted to give an update. I did have the father sign a termination letter, he did beg me to change my program for him, I redirected him like a child and reminded him he needed to get going, the very next day was his last day. I no longer care for any of the children. I have been completely stress-free in my daycare, the children are getting more one-on-one attention and I can actually leave sensory materials out (with the other children I could not at all, I couldn't believe how much playdough was everywhere the one time I let them use it...how can children so old be so oblivious to mess?). I'm glad I stood my ground. I do have some community tension, mainly from one person...she came in on their last day (in the middle of nap time and grumpy as can be) asking for their things and said nothing more. She shoots me some dirty looks, but I just hold my head high. Some people have been asking, and I just say they are going elsewhere. I still have my other families. The one I was afraid would leave hasn't said a word, and I haven't said anything to her about it, I'm sure she has figured it out. So, the short of it is...it has turned out just fine so far.

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Glad to hear that this has worked out well. It is also nice to hear that you are enjoying your stress-free days now as well.

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you did the right thing OP!!

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Somehow I missed your original post and the replies that came after. I am so happy to see your latest update and feel relieved for you! I'm glad it has worked out so well. I guess it's a lesson to all of us to stand our ground and do the right thing for our families and our businesses. I bet you look forward to going to work now instead of dreading it.

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Good for you!!!! I have an idea. How about the woman that is giving you grief over this family start taking care of those kids and dealing with that father. See how she likes it.

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I had to do it once as well it's not easy, but he and his family weren't a good fit for your program

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