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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Ridiculous Regulations
momofsix 11:22 AM 07-28-2014
Originally Posted by preschoolteacher:
Yes, I'm in this county and this rule is enforced. So my son can never go in non-daycare rooms with my husband during daycare hours. And on top of that, I was told that if it's a normally scheduled work day for me but all my kids are absent, I still must remain in the licensed daycare parts of my house with my son although he'd be the only kid here.

Ridiculous!!!
So how about if you say you "picked up" your child from daycare so that now he's "home" with dad when you have kids or with you when no other kids show. Would that work?
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Childminder 11:26 AM 07-28-2014
Originally Posted by :
My least favorite part over-all is the way they enforce these things with NO explanation. Maybe there's a reason. Maybe something happened somewhere that caused this regulation.

If so, TELL US. EXPLAIN. We are adults; we can handle it. And it's developmentally appropriate
IF a regulation is ever in doubt or IF you should get written up for any violation that is questionable, request in writing the complete ruling and technical information. If she/he cannot show you the information, in writing, contact the State and get it waived and removed from your record. By email is a great way to do so because you have her/his id and it is in writing.
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Play Care 11:51 AM 07-28-2014
Originally Posted by preschoolteacher:
Yes, I'm in this county and this rule is enforced. So my son can never go in non-daycare rooms with my husband during daycare hours. And on top of that, I was told that if it's a normally scheduled work day for me but all my kids are absent, I still must remain in the licensed daycare parts of my house with my son although he'd be the only kid here.

Ridiculous!!!
That seems like a violaiton of your husband's right. So he can never "pick up" his child from day care? Is there anyway you can get together with other providers to fight that?
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Annalee 11:53 AM 07-28-2014
Originally Posted by Childminder:
IF a regulation is ever in doubt or IF you should get written up for any violation that is questionable, request in writing the complete ruling and technical information. If she/he cannot show you the information, in writing, contact the State and get it waived and removed from your record. By email is a great way to do so because you have her/his id and it is in writing.

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melilley 11:55 AM 07-28-2014
Originally Posted by Play Care:
That seems like a violaiton of your husband's right. So he can never "pick up" his child from day care? Is there anyway you can get together with other providers to fight that?
I was thinking the same thing. It's ridiculous that the child's own father can't "pick" his own child up to spend time with their child! I don't see how this can even be a rule. And also if she doesn't have any kids on a day she's open, she has to stay in the dc area. That's ludicrous! I hope that's in writing somewhere, or else I would be fighting it!
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SignMeUp 11:56 AM 07-28-2014
Originally Posted by Childminder:
IF a regulation is ever in doubt or IF you should get written up for any violation that is questionable, request in writing the complete ruling and technical information. If she/he cannot show you the information, in writing, contact the State and get it waived and removed from your record. By email is a great way to do so because you have her/his id and it is in writing.
Yes, and I would, I suppose, if that happened. But it's kind of like governing by fear and intimidation, if you know what I mean. IF we are told how to do something in an authorized class, we pretty much have to take it as a rule, even though it isn't in any law or reg that we know of. We feel forced to abide by what we are told will be enforced. (And that it's all up the the "interpretation" of the law or reg by the licensor.)
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Play Care 11:57 AM 07-28-2014
Oops, double post.
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KidGrind 03:57 PM 07-28-2014
I got a ding for not having pictures of my DCK’s families placed on my walls.
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NightOwl 04:22 PM 07-28-2014
Originally Posted by KidGrind:
I got a ding for not having pictures of my DCK’s families placed on my walls.
Say WHAT? In YOUR home??
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nannyde 04:25 PM 07-28-2014
Originally Posted by KidGrind:
I got a ding for not having pictures of my DCK’s families placed on my walls.
Wha?

Oh please tell me you are joking
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LysesKids 04:56 PM 07-28-2014
Originally Posted by KidGrind:
I got a ding for not having pictures of my DCK’s families placed on my walls.
I barely have pics of my own family up... I surely would not put up pics of daycare kids (ocassionally I get mini pics on holidays, but they go on the fridge under a magnet lol)
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hope 05:28 PM 07-28-2014
Originally Posted by KidGrind:
I got a ding for not having pictures of my DCK’s families placed on my walls.
I wanted to put some pictures of the dcm's up and my DH said no way will we put holes in our walls for that!
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KidGrind 06:17 PM 07-28-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
Wha?

Oh please tell me you are joking
I am not joking.

I wish I were. I imagine some think I’ve been exaggerating when it comes to the regulations, struggle and systematic push out that I’ve been going through for just shy of a year now.

I had Caring for Children in Family Child Care modules (13) to complete in 18 months. I completed in 11 months.

Teaching Strategies Gold was introduced as a tool/option. Now, it’s mandatory and I have to complete those modules. I have to have profiles on each child in care, drop-ins included.

My schedule and activity plan must have child initiated activities. Yet, before I got the ding I was told I could not have free play. Also my activity plan must include TS Gold objectives. In addition it must be individualized per specific children.

Basically, I have no freedom to run my program as an independent contractor/business owner.

I have until 04 August 14 to comply. I literally feel my home has been invaded and violated. I feel sod***ized as a FCC Provider.

A tear just fell. I will not let them win.

Note: I have not even began to scratch the surface of my situation.
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crazydaycarelady 06:19 PM 07-28-2014
e.j. Does the reg say how big the exit signs have to be? We are required to have a No Smoking sign, so I do - it's about 2x2 inches posted on my bulletin board.

We had the state try and push a couple of regs through but the providers were able to prevent them. The first was that the provider would have to see and hear the children at all times. It got changed to see and/or hear. Also they were trying to make a reg that if the provider went anywhere with an infant in a car then there must be another adult in the car also. Even though the parents drive to our house with only one adult in the car!

I agree about the ratios, a longevity clause would be nice. After 23 years I am more the competent to watch a couple more than 6 kids.
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e.j. 03:58 PM 07-29-2014
Originally Posted by crazydaycarelady:
e.j. Does the reg say how big the exit signs have to be? We are required to have a No Smoking sign, so I do - it's about 2x2 inches posted on my bulletin board.
No, the reg doesn't state how big it has to be. It only states, "Exit signs must be posted in rooms that have direct access to the outdoors." (I might understand better if signs were to be posted in rooms that have no direct access to the outdoors. lol) I did make my first set of signs very small so they wouldn't be too obvious but prior to my inspection the last time I re-licensed, I had heard from other providers who said their smaller signs weren't acceptable. I changed mine to 7x5 and got the okay on them. At this point, they're just a conversation piece. I usually get a "Seriously??!" look and when I explain that it's a state reg, people just start laughing.
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Unregistered 04:16 PM 07-29-2014
Here's a new one in I just found out the hard way.In Michigan you can only be a family daycare if you are also a licensed foster parent. I am a group daycare and you can care for 12 but if you are dual license you can only take care of 8 kids including foster kids.Confused as why someone who runs a succesful group daycare who wants to also adopt older foster kids get penalized?? Excuse me for wanting to make a difference in the lives of more children!
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Unregistered 05:01 PM 08-05-2014
My fire Marshall and licensor can't come to an agreement about my daycare kids being downstairs for part of the day without an egress window. Licensing says I can as long as no one sleeps down there, fire Marshall said I can't even go get art supplies with my kids to bring upstairs. I put them against each other and they said they can be down there until I have the means to put one in. Wth?! How long does that give me? It just has to be done by my next inspection with the fire Marshall which could be tomorrow or 2 years from now.

Our state ratio says our group license can have 17 kids in our home(if enough square feet is available) and have an assistant for part of the time but our city not county our city says no more than 12 (we don't need an assistant for 12).
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DaveA 05:52 PM 08-05-2014
When I helped my folks build their daycare center we converted 2 units of a 3 unit apartment building. Even though we put in the fire alarm system they wanted, we left the battery smoke alarms on the wall since the required setup had to be wired on a dedicated circuit breaker. Fire marshal flipped out, so in the name of safety we had to pull the only 4 smoke alarms out that would work if the power went out for any length of time. UGH!
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SignMeUp 06:34 PM 08-05-2014
Originally Posted by DaveArmour:
When I helped my folks build their daycare center we converted 2 units of a 3 unit apartment building. Even though we put in the fire alarm system they wanted, we left the battery smoke alarms on the wall since the required setup had to be wired on a dedicated circuit breaker. Fire marshal flipped out, so in the name of safety we had to pull the only 4 smoke alarms out that would work if the power went out for any length of time. UGH!
Don't the hardwired detectors have battery backup?
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Margarete 10:38 PM 08-05-2014
This is an excerpt from what was said in an email from my regional manager.
---------------------
To clarify for you …. YES, the law says that if you are a current licensed provider (so NOT inactive)… you must at all times be “licensed ready”… which means even if children are not in care and we show up during your day care hours and/or 1 hour prior and/or one hour after you close for the day, to do an inspection, you must allow us to enter (Inspection Authority), have locks in place, knives up and away, and be fully compliant with the Title 22 regulations.
-----------------------------

I am working on changing local policy... as actually the law says (court case in California http://scholar.google.com/scholar_ca...=2006&as_vis=1

"A family day care home is a business only when children cared for from other families for compensation are present and at all other times is a private residence"......"The state's warrantless inspection authority should not extend beyond the "closely regulated business" in which the provider engages."

Her interpretation means that even an hour before and after 'normal hours', or on a holiday; and even if you had no children (of your own or day care children present), you would have to be fully compliant (or any other time, as they could come by outside of those hours for a complaint).
Which means you could never set a table with steak knifes, your older children could never shower on their own (shampoo, and conditioner can not be accessible), or brush their teeth on their own, as even children's toothpaste says "keep out of reach of children"; locks and baby gates can never be taken down or left open; and all sorts of other rules that don't work or make sense in a private setting.

Legal is reviewing the information I brought to her attention.
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Play Care 03:45 AM 08-06-2014
I went to a training last night on our "new" regulations. One is that we must have a "clock in and out" time for the provider available for licensing...
I can understand them wanting to keep track of a subs hours - they legally are very limited in how long they can be alone with the kids. But the provider??!! What other PRIVATE business owner has to do this?!

I wonder when the state is going to admit that we are their employees and offer us pension, health bennies, PTO, etc.
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Annalee 03:54 AM 08-06-2014
Originally Posted by Play Care:
I went to a training last night on our "new" regulations. One is that we must have a "clock in and out" time for the provider available for licensing...
I can understand them wanting to keep track of a subs hours - they legally are very limited in how long they can be alone with the kids. But the provider??!! What other PRIVATE business owner has to do this?!

I wonder when the state is going to admit that we are their employees and offer us pension, health bennies, PTO, etc.
This is happening here in TN as well...sometimes licensing will go back a few months to verify ratios are correct by checking the sign-in/out logs for staff and children in care....if a staff member "forgets" to sign in and ratios are off, it is a violation with a fine....even if providers verify, it was actually "forgotten" but the provider was there...no room for benefit of the doubt!
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DaveA 04:13 AM 08-06-2014
Originally Posted by SignMeUp:
Don't the hardwired detectors have battery backup?
Believe it or not they weren't required to have a battery backup. I'm pretty sure ours did anyway, but they were only viable for something like an hour or so after losing power. This was years ago: I hope they've changed that.
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Annalee 04:44 AM 08-06-2014
Originally Posted by DaveArmour:
Believe it or not they weren't required to have a battery backup. I'm pretty sure ours did anyway, but they were only viable for something like an hour or so after losing power. This was years ago: I hope they've changed that.
Not necessary to have battery back up here either!!?? I don't get it, but it is what it is...
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SignMeUp 08:05 AM 08-06-2014
The hard-wired detectors that I replaced a few years ago did not have battery backup so I always used battery operated detectors too. We are allowed to use battery if we replace batteries twice a year.
My newer hard-wired have battery backup though.
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SignMeUp 08:11 AM 08-06-2014
A question has been nagging at my brain.

We are only allowed to use a substitute for 30 days OR part days per year.

What is the difference then, between leaving an "assistant" with the children, and using a substitute?

(My ignorance disclaimer: I have never had an assistant, and have not used a sustitute in a lot of years because of the amount of training they are now required to have. Not worth it financially.)
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Blackcat31 08:14 AM 08-06-2014
Originally Posted by SignMeUp:
A question has been nagging at my brain.

We are only allowed to use a substitute for 30 days OR part days per year.

What is the difference then, between leaving an "assistant" with the children, and using a substitute?

(My ignorance disclaimer: I have never had an assistant, and have not used a sustitute in a lot of years because of the amount of training they are now required to have. Not worth it financially.)
My licensor defines that rule as this.

An assistant should be listed as an employee and recorded on your license (not necessarily named but in your file) as someone working WITH you. But you are still present on site

A substitute provider is the person you would leave the kids with.
You (the provider) would be off site.

A substitute is limited to use (like you said above) but an assistant is not.

Clearer?
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SignMeUp 10:32 AM 08-06-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
My licensor defines that rule as this.

An assistant should be listed as an employee and recorded on your license (not necessarily named but in your file) as someone working WITH you. But you are still present on site

A substitute provider is the person you would leave the kids with.
You (the provider) would be off site.

A substitute is limited to use (like you said above) but an assistant is not.

Clearer?
Makes some sense, given that probably the providers who talk about running their child care with assistants, while they do something else entirely (school, or a different job) might be from a different state..?
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LysesKids 02:28 PM 08-06-2014
Originally Posted by Annalee:
This is happening here in TN as well...sometimes licensing will go back a few months to verify ratios are correct by checking the sign-in/out logs for staff and children in care....if a staff member "forgets" to sign in and ratios are off, it is a violation with a fine....even if providers verify, it was actually "forgotten" but the provider was there...no room for benefit of the doubt!
I'm sort of glad I'm not licensed and just licensed exempt here lol
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KiddieCahoots 02:41 PM 08-06-2014
Honestly, reading all this and relating to some too, I'm actually starting to feel the involvement of the Union may actually be a good thing here in MA.
If it does give us a voice, time will tell.
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Tags:regulations, regulations - crazy
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