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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>When Pick-Up Person Is Under the Influence
LadyPearl 06:42 AM 04-16-2014
How do you view this?
I had an appt with the initial licensing agency for my state a few weeks ago and she told me that I must release a child to a parent even if they are obviously under the influence. I have it stated in my policies that I will not do this but she's telling me that I don't have the right to withhold a child. I was shocked! Does anybody else have a state law that says this?
I had an appt with the initial licensing agency for my state a few weeks ago and she told me that I must release a child to a parent even if they are obviously under the influence. I have it stated in my policies that I will not do this but she's telling me that I don't have the right to withhold a child. I was shocked! Does anybody else have a state law that says this?
Blackcat31 06:46 AM 04-16-2014
Originally Posted by LadyPearl:
How do you view this?
I had an appt with the initial licensing agency for my state a few weeks ago and she told me that I must release a child to a parent even if they are obviously under the influence. I have it stated in my policies that I will not do this but she's telling me that I don't have the right to withhold a child. I was shocked! Does anybody else have a state law that says this?
With holding a child from their legal guardian is considered kidnapping. How do you view this?
I had an appt with the initial licensing agency for my state a few weeks ago and she told me that I must release a child to a parent even if they are obviously under the influence. I have it stated in my policies that I will not do this but she's telling me that I don't have the right to withhold a child. I was shocked! Does anybody else have a state law that says this?
YOU are not trained to accurately decide whether some one is or isn't under the influence.
You can however have a plan in place for this this...
Stall, while calling the police
Offer an alternative method of transportation (call a taxi or a friend)
Call the police the minute a parent takes their child
There are many situations that could appear as if a parent is under the influence and without performing a sobriety test (which we are NOT trained to do) or a blood test, you really don't know if a person really is under the influence.
If in doubt, stall and call 911 if necessary but do NOT put the other children in your care at risk by trying to confront a person who may possibly be under the influence.
Your job is to ensure the safety of ALL children in care.
debbiedoeszip 06:46 AM 04-16-2014
This question was asked when I last did childcare during one of our workshops. The answer was release the child, but then call the police when they leave (and tell police that parent/adult is transporting child while under the influence).
Blackcat31 06:48 AM 04-16-2014
Other threads about this subject
https://www.daycare.com/forum/tags.p...+the+influence
https://www.daycare.com/forum/tags.php?tag=drunk+parent
https://www.daycare.com/forum/tags.p...+the+influence
https://www.daycare.com/forum/tags.php?tag=drunk+parent
Cradle2crayons 06:51 AM 04-16-2014
I will not release a child to an alternate pickup while they are under the influence but I have it in my policies I will call the police and Dhs as soon as hey close he door.
Where I live, by the time they got he kids in the car and made it down my long driveway a cop wouldbe waiting for them at the end...
And... I've had to do this ONE time a long time ago....
Where I live, by the time they got he kids in the car and made it down my long driveway a cop wouldbe waiting for them at the end...
And... I've had to do this ONE time a long time ago....
TickleMonster 06:57 AM 04-16-2014
Have had this happen. I stalled the dcd while my mother phoned the dcm. (Dcd and dcm are not together) Had her come and pick up the dcg. Dcd was so out of it, he didn't even seem to notice and just thought he had showed up on the wrong day to pick up dcg! What a mess.
KiddieCahoots 07:04 AM 04-16-2014
I was also advised by my CDA instructor.....when contracting with a family, to make copies of driver's licenses to keep in the file, and vehicle tag identification, make and models, for easy description to the police if ever necessary.
Cradle2crayons 07:13 AM 04-16-2014
Originally Posted by KiddieCahoots:
I was also advised by my CDA instructor.....when contracting with a family, to make copies of driver's licenses to keep in the file, and vehicle tag identification, make and models, for easy description to the police if ever necessary.
I was also advised by my CDA instructor.....when contracting with a family, to make copies of driver's licenses to keep in the file, and vehicle tag identification, make and models, for easy description to the police if ever necessary.
I do exactly that!!!! Great great advice!!
hwichlaz 07:22 AM 04-16-2014
If my husband isn't home, I offer them a choice.
1. Call someone else or alternate transport.
2. Leave with your child and I call the police.
If my husband is home, he deals with it. He's a cop.
1. Call someone else or alternate transport.
2. Leave with your child and I call the police.
If my husband is home, he deals with it. He's a cop.
Laurel 09:18 AM 04-16-2014
It has never happened to me but when I was subbing for the secretary of our elementary school a dad came to pick up under the influence. The principal took him into his office and gave him a cup of black coffee and talked to him. I can't remember if someone else came to pick up or not...probably.
If the person wasn't violent, I'd try the "Hey look dad. You don't look well, did you have too much to drink? I think we should call someone else to pick up." If he didn't agree then I'd tell him I will call the police."
I know we cannot hold the child because another provider here was cited for it.
Laurel
If the person wasn't violent, I'd try the "Hey look dad. You don't look well, did you have too much to drink? I think we should call someone else to pick up." If he didn't agree then I'd tell him I will call the police."
I know we cannot hold the child because another provider here was cited for it.
Laurel
Blackcat31 09:23 AM 04-16-2014
Originally Posted by Laurel:
It has never happened to me but when I was subbing for the secretary of our elementary school a dad came to pick up under the influence. The principal took him into his office and gave him a cup of black coffee and talked to him. I can't remember if someone else came to pick up or not...probably.
If the person wasn't violent, I'd try the "Hey look dad. You don't look well, did you have too much to drink? I think we should call someone else to pick up." If he didn't agree then I'd tell him I will call the police."
I know we cannot hold the child because another provider here was cited for it.
Laurel
I'm sorry but I agree with everything you said except the part about asking if they had too much to drink. My DH is an insulin diabetic. When his blood sugar is low he appears to be drunk. It has never happened to me but when I was subbing for the secretary of our elementary school a dad came to pick up under the influence. The principal took him into his office and gave him a cup of black coffee and talked to him. I can't remember if someone else came to pick up or not...probably.
If the person wasn't violent, I'd try the "Hey look dad. You don't look well, did you have too much to drink? I think we should call someone else to pick up." If he didn't agree then I'd tell him I will call the police."
I know we cannot hold the child because another provider here was cited for it.
Laurel
If you asked him if he had too much to drink, I would be HIGHLY offended because that implies he would do such a thing.
Instead I would rather you simply asked if he were ok and if you could call an alternate method of transportation for him/the child.
Wording is everything in my opinion and I would really hate to think my provider automatically assumed I was drinking when it could be a number of other things. NONE of which a person should be driving with their child but nothing that would warrant such an assumption....kwim?
Laurel 09:31 AM 04-16-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I'm sorry but I agree with everything you said except the part about asking if they had too much to drink. My DH is an insulin diabetic. When his blood sugar is low he appears to be drunk.
If you asked him if he had too much to drink, I would be HIGHLY offended because that implies he would do such a thing.
Instead I would rather you simply asked if he were ok and if you could call an alternate method of transportation for him/the child.
Wording is everything in my opinion and I would really hate to think my provider automatically assumed I was drinking when it could be a number of other things. NONE of which a person should be driving with their child but nothing that would warrant such an assumption....kwim?
Point taken and you are right. I can't imagine anyone who has a condition that makes them look drunk though wouldn't just say "Oh I can see why you would think that but no I am a diabetic." If they know they look that way sometimes I can't imagine being offended. That said, though, I like your question better. I'm sorry but I agree with everything you said except the part about asking if they had too much to drink. My DH is an insulin diabetic. When his blood sugar is low he appears to be drunk.
If you asked him if he had too much to drink, I would be HIGHLY offended because that implies he would do such a thing.
Instead I would rather you simply asked if he were ok and if you could call an alternate method of transportation for him/the child.
Wording is everything in my opinion and I would really hate to think my provider automatically assumed I was drinking when it could be a number of other things. NONE of which a person should be driving with their child but nothing that would warrant such an assumption....kwim?
To be honest, I wouldn't be all that worried if they were offended. I'm human and not a mind reader.
Laurel
Angelsj 09:32 AM 04-16-2014
Black Cat is correct in saying it is not legal to keep the child. However, I have done this, and the police were grateful. I do not believe, law or not, that any judge would convict in those circumstances, especially if the police are called immediately.
I have a commanding way about me, though, and the other children were never in danger. If this was possible, I would release the child, then call.
I just tell them they can call an alternative pick up, or I will call the police and they can wait for a decision from them. If they are not under the influence, no problem. The police ARE capable and trained to make that call.
For the record, it is not always drugs or alcohol. I have refused to return a child in the case of a schizophrenic in the midst of hallucinations and delusions. I am still friends with the mother (she is on meds now) and she was also grateful.
In the case of diabetes, I would hope the person would say so, but I do know that some people in the throes of hypoglycemia just get angry and don't realize they need food. I would apologize for the offense, but I would think a parent would be happy to learn I will not release their child to someone who appears incapable of safely driving them.
I have a commanding way about me, though, and the other children were never in danger. If this was possible, I would release the child, then call.
I just tell them they can call an alternative pick up, or I will call the police and they can wait for a decision from them. If they are not under the influence, no problem. The police ARE capable and trained to make that call.
For the record, it is not always drugs or alcohol. I have refused to return a child in the case of a schizophrenic in the midst of hallucinations and delusions. I am still friends with the mother (she is on meds now) and she was also grateful.
In the case of diabetes, I would hope the person would say so, but I do know that some people in the throes of hypoglycemia just get angry and don't realize they need food. I would apologize for the offense, but I would think a parent would be happy to learn I will not release their child to someone who appears incapable of safely driving them.
Angelsj 09:36 AM 04-16-2014
Originally Posted by debbiedoeszip:
This question was asked when I last did childcare during one of our workshops. The answer was release the child, but then call the police when they leave (and tell police that parent/adult is transporting child while under the influence).
One thing you learn after school is over, is that there is often a "school answer" and a "real life" answer. Sometimes, we have to make hard choices and hope for the best result. This question was asked when I last did childcare during one of our workshops. The answer was release the child, but then call the police when they leave (and tell police that parent/adult is transporting child while under the influence).
Knowing the law is always good, but following that (or accepting possible consequences of not following it) is always a choice of an adult.
Blackcat31 10:15 AM 04-16-2014
Originally Posted by Laurel:
Point taken and you are right. I can't imagine anyone who has a condition that makes them look drunk though wouldn't just say "Oh I can see why you would think that but no I am a diabetic." If they know they look that way sometimes I can't imagine being offended. That said, though, I like your question better.
To be honest, I wouldn't be all that worried if they were offended. I'm human and not a mind reader.
Laurel
Point taken and you are right. I can't imagine anyone who has a condition that makes them look drunk though wouldn't just say "Oh I can see why you would think that but no I am a diabetic." If they know they look that way sometimes I can't imagine being offended. That said, though, I like your question better.
To be honest, I wouldn't be all that worried if they were offended. I'm human and not a mind reader.
Laurel
Most people with diabetes WILL say that, but I can't speak for everyone.
My DH wouldn't normally be offended but because so many people DO jump to that conclusion without thinking that there could be another more plausible explanation, it gets rather annoying to have to correct people.
Plus, assuming that my DH would be the kind of parent to drink and drive with our child is what would offend me....even if it were my child you were trying to protect.
I would also think that if I were your DCF, I would tell you ahead of time of my DH's condition and what the symptoms of low or high blood sugar looks like....
A PP is correct in stating too that often times someone who is experiencing blood sugar swings, that they can be irritable and cranky but not on purpose.
I don't know if that makes sense... I guess unless you've actually witnessed someone having an episode, it would be hard to understand what I mean.
Originally Posted by Angelsj:
Black Cat is correct in saying it is not legal to keep the child. However, I have done this, and the police were grateful. I do not believe, law or not, that any judge would convict in those circumstances, especially if the police are called immediately.
I have a commanding way about me, though, and the other children were never in danger. If this was possible, I would release the child, then call.
I just tell them they can call an alternative pick up, or I will call the police and they can wait for a decision from them. If they are not under the influence, no problem. The police ARE capable and trained to make that call.
For the record, it is not always drugs or alcohol. I have refused to return a child in the case of a schizophrenic in the midst of hallucinations and delusions. I am still friends with the mother (she is on meds now) and she was also grateful.
In the case of diabetes, I would hope the person would say so, but I do know that some people in the throes of hypoglycemia just get angry and don't realize they need food. I would apologize for the offense, but I would think a parent would be happy to learn I will not release their child to someone who appears incapable of safely driving them.
You are correct in stating that someone with that condition often appears angry or heated....which would be another reason I would not want to offend.... I wouldn't want to risk the person freaking out and having the other kids see that. Black Cat is correct in saying it is not legal to keep the child. However, I have done this, and the police were grateful. I do not believe, law or not, that any judge would convict in those circumstances, especially if the police are called immediately.
I have a commanding way about me, though, and the other children were never in danger. If this was possible, I would release the child, then call.
I just tell them they can call an alternative pick up, or I will call the police and they can wait for a decision from them. If they are not under the influence, no problem. The police ARE capable and trained to make that call.
For the record, it is not always drugs or alcohol. I have refused to return a child in the case of a schizophrenic in the midst of hallucinations and delusions. I am still friends with the mother (she is on meds now) and she was also grateful.
In the case of diabetes, I would hope the person would say so, but I do know that some people in the throes of hypoglycemia just get angry and don't realize they need food. I would apologize for the offense, but I would think a parent would be happy to learn I will not release their child to someone who appears incapable of safely driving them.
I also think that it is important for families who do have medical issues to discuss these things with the provider BEFORE-hand so that there can be a plan in place BEFORE something happens.
PRE-planning would solve a lot of the confusion.
I did have a mom come one time after the dentist. She appeared VERY intoxicated. She wasn't. She was having an issue with the stuff the dentist gave her and some other medication she takes.... She had NO idea it would make her feel/act that way. Thankfully she was a great parent that totally understood why I offered her alternatives to get home.
Blackcat31 10:22 AM 04-16-2014
Here is what Tom Copeland says about this. He has an excellent suggestion about making a transportation policy with families UPON enrollment so you know exactly what to do...
http://www.tomcopelandblog.com/2011/...-up-drunk.html
http://www.tomcopelandblog.com/2011/...-up-drunk.html
nannyde 10:23 AM 04-16-2014
I would take the kidnapping charges. Hell will freeze over before I let one of my babies out the door with someone I think is under the influence. I don't care what the law is.
I tell them at the interview that if anyone comes to pick up and I think they are uti I am keeping the kid. Don't like it then be gone.
I tell them at the interview that if anyone comes to pick up and I think they are uti I am keeping the kid. Don't like it then be gone.
TaylorTots 10:38 AM 04-16-2014
This has happened to me a few years ago as a provider. I opened door, DCD smelled of alcohol, his eyes weren't focused and he was slurring. He could stand but his walk was slow and faulty. I told him I needed to take DCG to potty. Called 911 (always have a phone in my back pocket) while in there and told them either DCD was under the influence or needed medical attention. By the time we slowly got done peeing and washing our hands, the police had arrived with an ambulance at our house. THEY then took care of the decisions and DCG. No longer my responsibility and I didn't withhold the child from the parent.
Unregistered 10:57 AM 04-16-2014
With my set up I could not do the 'stall & call' tactic in most cases, unless maybe it was my last pick up. Parents come right in and downstairs into my daycare. I slip into another area leaving the possibly intoxicated person with the kids. hmmm something for me to think about.
Unregistered 11:00 AM 04-16-2014
That should read 'I couldn't slip into.....
KiddieCahoots 11:04 AM 04-16-2014
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons:
I do exactly that!!!! Great great advice!!
Thank you Cradle2crayons! I do exactly that!!!! Great great advice!!
NightOwl 11:59 AM 04-16-2014
You can't withhold a child, but you can give them unpleasant options. #1 Find someone else to pick up the child or #2 leave with the child and I will call the police and cps. That's not withholding, that's offering acceptable alternatives. I bet $1000 bucks they find an alternate person to transport.
#1 Find someone else to pick up the child or #2 leave with the child and I will call the police and cps. That's not withholding, that's offering acceptable alternatives. I bet $1000 bucks they find an alternate person to transport.
Cradle2crayons 01:54 PM 04-16-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
I would take the kidnapping charges. Hell will freeze over before I let one of my babies out the door with someone I think is under the influence. I don't care what the law is.
I tell them at the interview that if anyone comes to pick up and I think they are uti I am keeping the kid. Don't like it then be gone.
I would take the kidnapping charges. Hell will freeze over before I let one of my babies out the door with someone I think is under the influence. I don't care what the law is.
I tell them at the interview that if anyone comes to pick up and I think they are uti I am keeping the kid. Don't like it then be gone.
completely agree.
Laurel 02:07 PM 04-16-2014
Originally Posted by TaylorTots:
This has happened to me a few years ago as a provider. I opened door, DCD smelled of alcohol, his eyes weren't focused and he was slurring. He could stand but his walk was slow and faulty. I told him I needed to take DCG to potty. Called 911 (always have a phone in my back pocket) while in there and told them either DCD was under the influence or needed medical attention. By the time we slowly got done peeing and washing our hands, the police had arrived with an ambulance at our house. THEY then took care of the decisions and DCG. No longer my responsibility and I didn't withhold the child from the parent.
Very good idea. I guess if is an infant one could say diaper change or some other excuse.This has happened to me a few years ago as a provider. I opened door, DCD smelled of alcohol, his eyes weren't focused and he was slurring. He could stand but his walk was slow and faulty. I told him I needed to take DCG to potty. Called 911 (always have a phone in my back pocket) while in there and told them either DCD was under the influence or needed medical attention. By the time we slowly got done peeing and washing our hands, the police had arrived with an ambulance at our house. THEY then took care of the decisions and DCG. No longer my responsibility and I didn't withhold the child from the parent.
TaylorTots 05:01 PM 04-16-2014
Originally Posted by Laurel:
Very good idea. I guess if is an infant one could say diaper change or some other excuse.
Yeah. My biggest concern would be making sure you don't leave them with access to other DCKs. In my case, this DCK was the last child for pick up (DCD was late-wonderwhy-).Very good idea. I guess if is an infant one could say diaper change or some other excuse.
coolconfidentme 05:15 PM 04-16-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
I would take the kidnapping charges. Hell will freeze over before I let one of my babies out the door with someone I think is under the influence. I don't care what the law is.
I tell them at the interview that if anyone comes to pick up and I think they are uti I am keeping the kid. Don't like it then be gone.
SAME HERE!!!I would take the kidnapping charges. Hell will freeze over before I let one of my babies out the door with someone I think is under the influence. I don't care what the law is.
I tell them at the interview that if anyone comes to pick up and I think they are uti I am keeping the kid. Don't like it then be gone.
I couldn't live with myself if something happened to a child & I could have prevented it.
Lucy 05:54 PM 04-16-2014
My brother-in-law's ex-wife went to school to pick up their 2nd grader, and she was dopey from taking too many pain pills. They would not release the child to her, and my brother-in-law had to leave work to go to the school.
I never thought about the fact that they can't hold the child. In this case, they did. I wonder if it's different in different states. You would think a public school would know the laws about this.
I never thought about the fact that they can't hold the child. In this case, they did. I wonder if it's different in different states. You would think a public school would know the laws about this.
Blackcat31 07:38 PM 04-16-2014
Originally Posted by Lucy:
My brother-in-law's ex-wife went to school to pick up their 2nd grader, and she was dopey from taking too many pain pills. They would not release the child to her, and my brother-in-law had to leave work to go to the school.
I never thought about the fact that they can't hold the child. In this case, they did. I wonder if it's different in different states. You would think a public school would know the laws about this.
I think public schools might have different rules/liabilities than providers.... My brother-in-law's ex-wife went to school to pick up their 2nd grader, and she was dopey from taking too many pain pills. They would not release the child to her, and my brother-in-law had to leave work to go to the school.
I never thought about the fact that they can't hold the child. In this case, they did. I wonder if it's different in different states. You would think a public school would know the laws about this.
I don't know...
I am curious now so I might have to see what I can find out...
Laurel 08:09 PM 04-16-2014
Originally Posted by Lucy:
My brother-in-law's ex-wife went to school to pick up their 2nd grader, and she was dopey from taking too many pain pills. They would not release the child to her, and my brother-in-law had to leave work to go to the school.
I never thought about the fact that they can't hold the child. In this case, they did. I wonder if it's different in different states. You would think a public school would know the laws about this.
The public school I talked about in my first post was a public school in Ohio. Apparently the principal was supposed to let the child leave but talked the dad out of it.My brother-in-law's ex-wife went to school to pick up their 2nd grader, and she was dopey from taking too many pain pills. They would not release the child to her, and my brother-in-law had to leave work to go to the school.
I never thought about the fact that they can't hold the child. In this case, they did. I wonder if it's different in different states. You would think a public school would know the laws about this.
I suppose we could say we weren't going to let the child leave until someone else came to pick up. It is likely the parent wouldn't know their rights anyway. By the time it got all straightened out then someone else may have arrived to pick up that we called. That might work.
Laurel
Laurel 08:11 PM 04-16-2014
Originally Posted by TaylorTots:
Yeah. My biggest concern would be making sure you don't leave them with access to other DCKs. In my case, this DCK was the last child for pick up (DCD was late-wonderwhy-).
Well here when a child has to go potty the others tag along anyway so it wouldn't matter. Yeah. My biggest concern would be making sure you don't leave them with access to other DCKs. In my case, this DCK was the last child for pick up (DCD was late-wonderwhy-).
Laurel