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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>O...M...G....How Much Do You Hold Your Newborns?!
sahm2three 07:44 AM 12-13-2011
So my new newborn is colicky AND spoiled ROTTEN. Ugh. Why do parents do this to their daycare providers!? Obviously they can't help the colicky part necessarily, but the spoiled part.....If he isn't being held and bounced constantly, he screams this high pitched loud scream.
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Zoe 07:47 AM 12-13-2011
The only thing I've found that helps is time. The child will get used to your schedule and the way you do things if you keep it consistent.

I had a little guy, 6 months, who would scream if I put him down and would NOT go to sleep by himself. After about a month of crying it out and showing him that I wasn't going anywhere when I put him down to play, he became so much better!
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sahm2three 07:50 AM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by Zoe:
The only thing I've found that helps is time. The child will get used to your schedule and the way you do things if you keep it consistent.

I had a little guy, 6 months, who would scream if I put him down and would NOT go to sleep by himself. After about a month of crying it out and showing him that I wasn't going anywhere when I put him down to play, he became so much better!
I just can't stomach letting a newborn cry too very much though. At least one that isn't mine. I could let mine fuss for a bit and then come back and talk to them or whatever and then let them be for a bit again. This baby doesn't fuss at all. He flat out screams!!! Ugh.
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Zoe 07:53 AM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by sahm2three:
I just can't stomach letting a newborn cry too very much though. At least one that isn't mine. I could let mine fuss for a bit and then come back and talk to them or whatever and then let them be for a bit again. This baby doesn't fuss at all. He flat out screams!!! Ugh.
Yeah that's hard when you don't like to hear them cry. For some reason I'm able to tune it out. Sounds horrible right?! But it works for me. I wouldn't want to listen to them scream either.

Maybe you could transition slowly with the amount you hold the little one. If it's something you are able to do with the group you had.
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MNMum 07:56 AM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by sahm2three:
I just can't stomach letting a newborn cry too very much though. At least one that isn't mine. I could let mine fuss for a bit and then come back and talk to them or whatever and then let them be for a bit again. This baby doesn't fuss at all. He flat out screams!!! Ugh.
I'm the opposite. My own babies were hardly put down. I can stomach it for a little bit with my daycare kiddos, if I'm busy with the other kids. Newborns are supposed to be held and cuddled and bounced and kept close. Ya it makes the transition to daycare harder, but if it is better for the baby in the long run, I'll deal with it. I get so sad when I see little babies enter my care with major flat heads and torticollus. Little babies need to be held!
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Heidi 08:03 AM 12-13-2011
so, he stops screaming when you hold and bounce him? or he continues, but you feel like at least you're doing something...

According to infant expert Magda Gerber, we tend to OVER stimulate our infants. Jossling, swinging, patting, etc. Her answer would be put him in a quiet area, and allow him to self soothe. A soft breeze and a curtain to watch, or some white noise nearby. She might also suggest you help him find his thumb, although I prefer the old binkies (can be taken away when older...thumb not so much).

This would explain why many young infants sleep all day and want to be awake at night. Think about the lighting and noise level in a nursery at night. Mom is engaged and quiet, the lighting is soft, noise level low. After the quiet of the womb for 9 months, the world can be a lot to cope with at first.

Try it...maybe it'll work for this guy, maybe not. It's better than carrying him while he's screaming in your ear!
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Ariana 09:07 AM 12-13-2011
Get an infant carrier. My DD lived in a Bjorn!!
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frgsonmysox 09:13 AM 12-13-2011
You can't spoil a newborn. They are supposed to be held and loved on. Look up the philosophy NINO (Nine in Nine out).

Bjorns are bad for baby's hips and spine. I do agree, get a carrier though. Baby loves to be snuggled up to someone warm. A moby is a great wrap for littles.
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sahm2three 09:17 AM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by bbo:
so, he stops screaming when you hold and bounce him? or he continues, but you feel like at least you're doing something...

According to infant expert Magda Gerber, we tend to OVER stimulate our infants. Jossling, swinging, patting, etc. Her answer would be put him in a quiet area, and allow him to self soothe. A soft breeze and a curtain to watch, or some white noise nearby. She might also suggest you help him find his thumb, although I prefer the old binkies (can be taken away when older...thumb not so much).

This would explain why many young infants sleep all day and want to be awake at night. Think about the lighting and noise level in a nursery at night. Mom is engaged and quiet, the lighting is soft, noise level low. After the quiet of the womb for 9 months, the world can be a lot to cope with at first.

Try it...maybe it'll work for this guy, maybe not. It's better than carrying him while he's screaming in your ear!
A little of both. Sometimes the bouncing makes the crying stop, but most times it doesn't help a lot. He is just a miserable child.
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mismatchedsocks 09:39 AM 12-13-2011
Poor baby and you! What age is the newborn? Hard when they are used to being held, or have movement of some kind. Is there a quiet room to put him in? Bouncer or swing that helps. What does mom/dad do at home?


I have a 6 month old that just started. He is used to being rocked and held his WHOLE naps. I am on day 3, and have let him cry it out each day. I rock him a bit, read to him, fill his tummy up then lay him down. I keep eye on him on camera, and go in every 15 minutes or so to rub his head and tell him it is ok. Day one lasted almost an hour of flat out crying, screaming. day 2, 45 minutes with whimpering and crying mix and today he fell asleep after about 15 minutes of whimpering. I think time with him and realizing I am not holding him when he sleeps.
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sahm2three 09:44 AM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by frgsonmysox:
You can't spoil a newborn. They are supposed to be held and loved on. Look up the philosophy NINO (Nine in Nine out).

Bjorns are bad for baby's hips and spine. I do agree, get a carrier though. Baby loves to be snuggled up to someone warm. A moby is a great wrap for littles.
He HATES the 2 different carriers I have. One is a sling, and the other a wrap. He wants to be held facing out and upright all the time. The second he feels himself lowering he starts. I understand babies need to be held and loved on. But if a baby needs to be held ALL the time, they don't belong in a daycare with other kids. They belong with a nanny.
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sahm2three 09:45 AM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by lilrugrats:
Poor baby and you! What age is the newborn? Hard when they are used to being held, or have movement of some kind. Is there a quiet room to put him in? Bouncer or swing that helps. What does mom/dad do at home?


I have a 6 month old that just started. He is used to being rocked and held his WHOLE naps. I am on day 3, and have let him cry it out each day. I rock him a bit, read to him, fill his tummy up then lay him down. I keep eye on him on camera, and go in every 15 minutes or so to rub his head and tell him it is ok. Day one lasted almost an hour of flat out crying, screaming. day 2, 45 minutes with whimpering and crying mix and today he fell asleep after about 15 minutes of whimpering. I think time with him and realizing I am not holding him when he sleeps.
He is 10 weeks old.
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Breezy 09:45 AM 12-13-2011
I hold them as much as need be. They need the closeness! But, I also put them in a sling (I have a moby wrap) so I can have my hands free. If you need to out him down and your regs allow it, I would try to swaddle. My DS was swaddled until he was 7 months old because he needed the comfort and had a startle reflex that drove him crazy.
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Breezy 09:46 AM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by sahm2three:
He HATES the 2 different carriers I have. One is a sling, and the other a wrap. He wants to be held facing out and upright all the time. The second he feels himself lowering he starts. I understand babies need to be held and loved on. But if a baby needs to be held ALL the time, they don't belong in a daycare with other kids. They belong with a nanny.
Yes I agree with you there!
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wdmmom 09:48 AM 12-13-2011
I have a 3 month old that is colicky and is held...A LOT!

I only let her cry for 10 minutes at a time. She's gradually getting adjusted to our schedule at daycare. We try to only hold her during feedings, before naps and when were trying to console her.
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frgsonmysox 10:39 AM 12-13-2011
As a parent I'd be livid if a daycare worker let my child cry it out without my permission. Crying it out has long term consequences.
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momofsix 10:45 AM 12-13-2011
If he wants to be held facing out, could it be you're putting some pressure on his tummy and that feels good to him?
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Heidi 10:53 AM 12-13-2011
Here is a website that may help a little. Janet Lansbury was trained at RIE (resources for infant educarers):

http://www.janetlansbury.com/categor...ing/babys-day/
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Unregistered 11:10 AM 12-13-2011
ANd this is why I am glad I live in Canada where the maternity leave is 50 weeks...it's also hard for a little one who is almost a year old but they are starting to be able to play and relate to other kids easier...the youngest that kids used to start here was 5 1/2 months and I lucked out with most of the babies I ever had here..they adjusted fairly quickly.

A baby that is 2 1/2 months old is probably needing his mommy! I couldn't imagine having a tiny baby here to look after with the other kids here too...I know that people have to work but imagine that poor little thing being thrust out into the world when he's barely com into it and hasn't even had time to adjust to being with his own parents...???
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KEG123 11:44 AM 12-13-2011
nvm...deleted post...
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Ariana 11:44 AM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by sahm2three:
He HATES the 2 different carriers I have. One is a sling, and the other a wrap. He wants to be held facing out and upright all the time. The second he feels himself lowering he starts. I understand babies need to be held and loved on. But if a baby needs to be held ALL the time, they don't belong in a daycare with other kids. They belong with a nanny.
Then if this is what you think you need to discuss this with mom. I wouldn't be comfortable with a care provider letting my child CIO. They are 3 months old!! I just don't agree with it. This is why I don't provide infant care. What about a bouncy chair or a swing?

Bjorn is the ONLY way my daughter would be worn. She hated all slings and wraps. As for the comment about it being bad on babies spines and hips there is absolutely NO evidence of this. Baby Bjorn is an award winning carrier. I wore my child in it all the time and she has no issues.
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Ariana 11:47 AM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by sahm2three:
So my new newborn is colicky AND spoiled ROTTEN. Ugh. Why do parents do this to their daycare providers!? Obviously they can't help the colicky part necessarily, but the spoiled part.....If he isn't being held and bounced constantly, he screams this high pitched loud scream.
This comment just doesn't sit right with me. How can a newborn be spoiled? Where is the empathy?
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Crystal 12:02 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by frgsonmysox:
As a parent I'd be livid if a daycare worker let my child cry it out without my permission. Crying it out has long term consequences.
Thank you.
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Mandy_Jane 12:03 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by Ariana:
This comment just doesn't sit right with me. How can a newborn be spoiled? Where is the empathy?
Yeah, I totally agree. A newborn simply CAN NOT be spoiled! Sounds like maybe infants aren't for her. Babies can not even soothe themselves when they are that little. I read something once that says until they are around 6 months old, they just simply can not self soothe. If you don't pick them up and comfort them, they just lose it and have an all out meltdown They need a human there to cuddle them, love them, rock them, pat them and do whatever it takes to calm them down. And ESPECIALLY if they are colicky. That means the poor baby is literally in pain. I just can't imagine leaving a newborn to suffer and cry without doing something to help calm the poor child.
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Crystal 12:04 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by bbo:
so, he stops screaming when you hold and bounce him? or he continues, but you feel like at least you're doing something...

According to infant expert Magda Gerber, we tend to OVER stimulate our infants. Jossling, swinging, patting, etc. Her answer would be put him in a quiet area, and allow him to self soothe. A soft breeze and a curtain to watch, or some white noise nearby. She might also suggest you help him find his thumb, although I prefer the old binkies (can be taken away when older...thumb not so much).

This would explain why many young infants sleep all day and want to be awake at night. Think about the lighting and noise level in a nursery at night. Mom is engaged and quiet, the lighting is soft, noise level low. After the quiet of the womb for 9 months, the world can be a lot to cope with at first.



Try it...maybe it'll work for this guy, maybe not. It's better than carrying him while he's screaming in your ear!
Thank you. I love Magda Gerber and the "educarer" philosophy to infant care. Nice post and great advice
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sahm2three 12:12 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by Ariana:
This comment just doesn't sit right with me. How can a newborn be spoiled? Where is the empathy?
Are you kidding? If I didn't have any empathy, I wouldn't have bothered posting anything! I would LOVE to just hold him all day long, but I CAN'T! How is that fair to the other kids in care?! We have not been able to do any Christmas projects because we have to constantly hold him and walk with him all day long. I am not kidding, all day long! If he were just content to sit in our laps or on our shoulder that would be one thing. But you have to constantly be bouncing and walking. That is what is hard, and yes, we have to lie him down and let him cry to attend to the other kids from time to time. I never said I laid him down and let him just cry or CIO. I wore my own kids. I tried my wrap and sling, which worked for all of my newborns. I am trying here. The reason I say he is spoiled is because the second he feels himself being lowered he starts crying. Not like spoiled like bratty, but spoiled like just totally used to being held.
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sahm2three 12:17 PM 12-13-2011
Ok, I MAY have found something that helps. I tried one of the other babies Dr. Brown bottles and he was so much more calm after his bottle. He actually let us lie him in the bouncer for a bit. Still being calm.....fingers crossed.
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Sugar Magnolia 12:19 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by Ariana:
This comment just doesn't sit right with me. How can a newborn be spoiled? Where is the empathy?
Ditto. Agree. Its a TINY baby. Also agree w frogsonmysocks about being furious over CIO. Sorry doesn't sound appropriate at all. 10 weeks.
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Ariana 12:21 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by sahm2three:
Are you kidding? If I didn't have any empathy, I wouldn't have bothered posting anything! I would LOVE to just hold him all day long, but I CAN'T! How is that fair to the other kids in care?! We have not been able to do any Christmas projects because we have to constantly hold him and walk with him all day long. I am not kidding, all day long! If he were just content to sit in our laps or on our shoulder that would be one thing. But you have to constantly be bouncing and walking. That is what is hard, and yes, we have to lie him down and let him cry to attend to the other kids from time to time. I never said I laid him down and let him just cry or CIO. I wore my own kids. I tried my wrap and sling, which worked for all of my newborns. I am trying here. The reason I say he is spoiled is because the second he feels himself being lowered he starts crying. Not like spoiled like bratty, but spoiled like just totally used to being held.
I think it's just the way your post came across. I apologize if this is not the way it was meant. It seemed like you were saying he was spoiled and you didn't want to deal with it.
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sahm2three 12:30 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
Ditto. Agree. Its a TINY baby. Also agree w frogsonmysocks about being furious over CIO. Sorry doesn't sound appropriate at all. 10 weeks.
OMG! I NEVER said I let this child CIO. Where are you people reading this?!?!?!?! I said I have had to put him down and he has cried while he was put down, but this was only while we had to attend to other things! SHEESH. I would NEVER let a baby this young CIO.
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Mandy_Jane 12:33 PM 12-13-2011
Well, maybe you can see if the Dr. Brown bottles continue to work for him. Maybe he needs his formula changed too? If nothing seems to work after changing some things around, then I would just tell his parent's it's not going to work out . Although I do think he will eventually outgrow this crying stage and it may be sooner than later. But if he is really disrupting your day as much as you say he is, then you may have no other option. Good luck!
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SilverSabre25 12:34 PM 12-13-2011
The Dangers of CIO

I think it sounds like his diet needs looked at. Does he stop crying if you hold him so you're putting pressure on his tummy? I bet he's got reflux and/or an allergy. Is he BF or FF?

edit: Sahm, the article isn't directed at you, it's a general psa kinda thing
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Crystal 12:34 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by sahm2three:
OMG! I NEVER said I let this child CIO. Where are you people reading this?!?!?!?! I said I have had to put him down and he has cried while he was put down, but this was only while we had to attend to other things! SHEESH. I would NEVER let a baby this young CIO.
sahm, I think they were referring to wdmmom's post.
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dave4him 12:37 PM 12-13-2011
you mean we can set them down?>
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sahm2three 12:37 PM 12-13-2011
Just forget it. I will just deal from now on. It is ridiculous that pretty much every time I post people read things that are not there. I NEVER said I did or could CIO with a newborn. I actually said I am not comfortable with letting a young baby cry. So I guess I will just keep things to myself and read posts but not contribute or vent or whatever. Ridiculous.
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Heidi 12:38 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by sahm2three:
OMG! I NEVER said I let this child CIO. Where are you people reading this?!?!?!?! I said I have had to put him down and he has cried while he was put down, but this was only while we had to attend to other things! SHEESH. I would NEVER let a baby this young CIO.
Someone apparently jumped to conclusions!

This is supposed to be a place you can come when you're frustrated!

The first thing they teach you in Shaken Baby Prevention class is that BABIES CRY, and that sometimes there is nothing you can do. If you've done everything you can, it is sometimes best to walk away. Put the baby somewhere safe and walk away to take a breath.

Just to be clear, I am in no way suggesting you would get so frustrated that you would do something drastic. I am making sure you know that I am backing you up. CIO was never mentioned in your post to begin with. You were clearly looking for support and ideas. Gosh!
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Crystal 12:38 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by SilverSabre25:
The Dangers of CIO

I think it sounds like his diet needs looked at. Does he stop crying if you hold him so you're putting pressure on his tummy? I bet he's got reflux and/or an allergy. Is he BF or FF?

edit: Sahm, the article isn't directed at you, it's a general psa kinda thing
Thank you very much for sharing that article. I had not read it before. I have read on this forum about CIO techniques and am glad that you have produced some evidence that shows it is NOT okay to allow a baby to CIO.
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Crystal 12:40 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by sahm2three:
Just forget it. I will just deal from now on. It is ridiculous that pretty much every time I post people read things that are not there. I NEVER said I did or could CIO with a newborn. I actually said I am not comfortable with letting a young baby cry. So I guess I will just keep things to myself and read posts but not contribute or vent or whatever. Ridiculous.
In case you didn't see my post, I think the CIO remark was in response to wdmmom's post:

wdmmom: I have a 3 month old that is colicky and is held...A LOT!

I only let her cry for 10 minutes at a time. She's gradually getting adjusted to our schedule at daycare. We try to only hold her during feedings, before naps and when were trying to console her.

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MNMum 12:44 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by sahm2three:
Are you kidding? If I didn't have any empathy, I wouldn't have bothered posting anything! I would LOVE to just hold him all day long, but I CAN'T! How is that fair to the other kids in care?! We have not been able to do any Christmas projects because we have to constantly hold him and walk with him all day long. I am not kidding, all day long! If he were just content to sit in our laps or on our shoulder that would be one thing. But you have to constantly be bouncing and walking. That is what is hard, and yes, we have to lie him down and let him cry to attend to the other kids from time to time. I never said I laid him down and let him just cry or CIO. I wore my own kids. I tried my wrap and sling, which worked for all of my newborns. I am trying here. The reason I say he is spoiled is because the second he feels himself being lowered he starts crying. Not like spoiled like bratty, but spoiled like just totally used to being held.
If the new bottles don't do the trick, I would make sure you are honest
with this mother and make sure she understands how much work he is at daycare. I had a little guy several years ago that just wasn't daycare material. I had never had an experience of a baby I couldn't keep happy, so it took many months for me to realize I couldn't make this work. I just kept thinking, next week it will be better. When I finally went to mom and had a discussion to tell her I couldn't meet his excessive needs she was so mad and never spoke with me again! They had a nanny within days!
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Country Kids 12:44 PM 12-13-2011
You never said anything about crying it out with this child. In fact just the opposite!!!! The person that start the whole cio thing, where did she pick up that is what you do?

I think everyone needs to slow down, wayyyyyyy down when reading posts and see what the person is saying. One person said something about cio and it ran like wildfire.

sahm2three didn't even say a thing about cio. She said she can't stand to let a baby cry!
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mrsp'slilpeeps 01:01 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
ANd this is why I am glad I live in Canada where the maternity leave is 50 weeks...it's also hard for a little one who is almost a year old but they are starting to be able to play and relate to other kids easier...the youngest that kids used to start here was 5 1/2 months and I lucked out with most of the babies I ever had here..they adjusted fairly quickly.

A baby that is 2 1/2 months old is probably needing his mommy! I couldn't imagine having a tiny baby here to look after with the other kids here too...I know that people have to work but imagine that poor little thing being thrust out into the world when he's barely com into it and hasn't even had time to adjust to being with his own parents...???
AMEN TO THAT. I would never leave my newborn baby at daycare. I think America needs to change alot of stuff. You couldnt pay me to live there.
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mrsp'slilpeeps 01:10 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by frgsonmysox:
As a parent I'd be livid if a daycare worker let my child cry it out without my permission. Crying it out has long term consequences.
What long term consequences are we talking about? A frustrated provider or parent that has tried everything and looses thier patience and hurts the baby?

Or leaving a baby to figure out how to soothe themselves?

I dont get why we are constantly trying to keep these kids from having one ounce of emotion besides happiness. Let them cry. check on them, help soothe them, comfort them but for the love of god why do we constantly have to keep these kids entertained?
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Crystal 01:16 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by mrsp'slilpeeps:
What long term consequences are we talking about? A frustrated provider or parent that has tried everything and looses thier patience and hurts the baby?

Or leaving a baby to figure out how to soothe themselves?

I dont get why we are constantly trying to keep these kids from having one ounce of emotion besides happiness. Let them cry. check on them, help soothe them, comfort them but for the love of god why do we constantly have to keep these kids entertained?
read the article that Silver linked to in her post above. good stuff
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Meeko 01:30 PM 12-13-2011
The article is a good one and for the most part I agree.

But there are times when you have done all you can. Baby is fed, diapered, clean, healthy, cuddled...he's just screaming....non-stop. There are times when you need to put the baby in the crib and walk away and breathe.

I am convinced we would have less shaken baby syndrome in this country if parents were not led to believe that if you put baby down for a split second you're a bad parent. Or that crying means you're doing something wrong.

As another poster said, we are told during training about shaken baby syndrome that it is OK to leave baby for a while and walk away.
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mrsp'slilpeeps 01:35 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by Crystal:
read the article that Silver linked to in her post above. good stuff
Just a bunch of mumbo jumbo if you ask me.
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Crystal 01:49 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by mrsp'slilpeeps:
Just a bunch of mumbo jumbo if you ask me.
Well, I'll take advice from experts who have conducted long-term scientific research over that of a random child care provider any day.
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Michelle 01:55 PM 12-13-2011
don't get discouraged by some of these posts.
Some people can argue about the color of the sky.

Just keep asking those good questions and chew the meat and spit out the bones..... those jagged, mean, critical,bones!
We are all friends here...right?
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Crystal 02:02 PM 12-13-2011
Wow. I'm not sure who is arguing here.....the only thing I saw was the one post about CIO and then sahm got upset.....I really think the post from frgsonmysox was in response to wdmmoms post, not sahms? And, even if not, it was her opinion. I see from members here all the time that we should all be able to share our opinions without it being taken personally, and then, everyone always takes everything personally

Is it forum cycle time again
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frgsonmysox 02:03 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by lilrugrats:
Poor baby and you! What age is the newborn? Hard when they are used to being held, or have movement of some kind. Is there a quiet room to put him in? Bouncer or swing that helps. What does mom/dad do at home?


I have a 6 month old that just started. He is used to being rocked and held his WHOLE naps. I am on day 3, and have let him cry it out each day. I rock him a bit, read to him, fill his tummy up then lay him down. I keep eye on him on camera, and go in every 15 minutes or so to rub his head and tell him it is ok. Day one lasted almost an hour of flat out crying, screaming. day 2, 45 minutes with whimpering and crying mix and today he fell asleep after about 15 minutes of whimpering. I think time with him and realizing I am not holding him when he sleeps.

THIS is the post I was referring to when it came to CIO.

As for long term effects of CIO, there have been many studies done on it. I won't lie, I'm an attached parent and the idea of CIO makes me furious.
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Meeko 02:05 PM 12-13-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsp'slilpeeps
Just a bunch of mumbo jumbo if you ask me.


Crystal: Well, I'll take advice from experts who have conducted long-term scientific research over that of a random child care provider any day.



I agreed with some of the article, but I actually value the opinions of random child care providers too.

Al Gore had lots of long-term scientific research too......................
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Meeko 02:07 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by Michelle:
don't get discouraged by some of these posts.
Some people can argue about the color of the sky.

Just keep asking those good questions and chew the meat and spit out the bones..... those jagged, mean, critical,bones!
We are all friends here...right?

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Blackcat31 02:09 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by frgsonmysox:
THIS is the post I was referring to when it came to CIO.

As for long term effects of CIO, there have been many studies done on it. I won't lie, I'm an attached parent and the idea of CIO makes me furious.
I don't mean this with any disrespect because we are all free to raise our children as we see fit, but attached parenting and child care does not work very well together. Both concepts seem to be from completely different starting points....kwim?

I think AP is great but NOT for kids who have to be in group care. It just is not feasible. AP is awesome for mom's who are sahm's in my opinion.

FWIW~ I am NOT a fan of CIO either. I think parents have a reponsibility to their child, themselves and the provider to set routines and practices that are applicable in home AND child care. If they do things only one way (which doesn't always work in a childcare setting) then it isn't fair to the child or the provider.
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Crystal 02:10 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by Meeko60:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsp'slilpeeps
Just a bunch of mumbo jumbo if you ask me.


Crystal: Well, I'll take advice from experts who have conducted long-term scientific research over that of a random child care provider any day.



I agreed with some of the article, but I actually value the opinions of random child care providers too.

Al Gore had lots of long-term scientific research too......................
Oh, I value their opinions too. But not as much as I value what scientific evidence proves to me. And, not at all when they flat out refuse to believe that scientific research has disproven many of the old school ways of doing things and that old school is the only way to do things.
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Country Kids 02:11 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by frgsonmysox:
THIS is the post I was referring to when it came to CIO.

As for long term effects of CIO, there have been many studies done on it. I won't lie, I'm an attached parent and the idea of CIO makes me furious.
I think six months is the best time for them to start learning to get to sleep! Over holiday weekend I was with a six month old that the entire time I was there was not put down once!!!! We were at the house for 4 or 5 hours and the baby was put in a bouncy set and immediately started crying and was picked up right away. The baby only slept 10 min for the entire time we were there. My teenager was handed the baby and asked to walk the baby around because parents, grandparents, and everyone else was tired of walking the child.

Even my husband notice that the child wasn't put down when we were there. A child that age should be able to play, self soothe, and have some quiet time especially during the length of time.
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SilverSabre25 02:12 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by Crystal:
Wow. I'm not sure who is arguing here.....the only thing I saw was the one post about CIO and then sahm got upset.....I really think the post from frgsonmysox was in response to wdmmoms post, not sahms? And, even if not, it was her opinion. I see from members here all the time that we should all be able to share our opinions without it being taken personally, and then, everyone always takes everything personally

Is it forum cycle time again
yes it is actually!
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Crystal 02:13 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by SilverSabre25:
yes it is actually!
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Michelle 02:15 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by Meeko60:

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SilverSabre25 02:19 PM 12-13-2011
SAHM, I really think that crying like you describe is NOT "normal" colic and a cause needs investigated. I don't believe that babies cry just to cry--they scream like that because something is wrong and often that something is dietary. Really, really, it is. The age that these "colicky" babies tend to "outgrow" the colic probably coincides with the age that the infant's digestive system matures to the point of being able to tolerate the substance in question.

Other causes for colic might include sensory issues or other "hidden" things.

What does make this baby happy? Tummy pressure, swaddling, swinging, etc? Is he super spitty?

I want to help you--and that baby--I really do!
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mismatchedsocks 02:20 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by frgsonmysox:
THIS is the post I was referring to when it came to CIO.

As for long term effects of CIO, there have been many studies done on it. I won't lie, I'm an attached parent and the idea of CIO makes me furious.

Im very sorry that you dont agree with my post, and good thing your child is not attending my daycare then. This childs parents knows exactly what I am doing and they do it at night, because their former daycare provider held the child each and every time he slept, even when mom asked her not to. He is almost 7 months however. So CIO or getting used to another daycares procedures is what he is doing.
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AmandasFCC 02:23 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by Meeko60:
The article is a good one and for the most part I agree.

But there are times when you have done all you can. Baby is fed, diapered, clean, healthy, cuddled...he's just screaming....non-stop. There are times when you need to put the baby in the crib and walk away and breathe.

I am convinced we would have less shaken baby syndrome in this country if parents were not led to believe that if you put baby down for a split second you're a bad parent. Or that crying means you're doing something wrong.

As another poster said, we are told during training about shaken baby syndrome that it is OK to leave baby for a while and walk away.
Yeah I pretty much agree. If I hadn't let my daughter cry it out at 8 months old, I probably still wouldn't be sleeping a wink at night. My daughter is a wonderful, happy, well-adjusted 3 year old who now, after having had me at home with her for 3 years, happily hops into her daycare room and goes off to play with her new friends because I'm back at work. No one will ever convince me that letting her cry it out was dangerous or bad for her attachment.

As for what to do in this situation, that's tough. My dd used to cry even in her sling and I just had to deal with it to get anything done. Eventually she got used to it and settled beautifully and grew to love the sling. Maybe he just needs more time in it to get used to it? I dunno. I never had little little babies other than my own.
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Crystal 02:23 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by SilverSabre25:
SAHM, I really think that crying like you describe is NOT "normal" colic and a cause needs investigated. I don't believe that babies cry just to cry--they scream like that because something is wrong and often that something is dietary. Really, really, it is. The age that these "colicky" babies tend to "outgrow" the colic probably coincides with the age that the infant's digestive system matures to the point of being able to tolerate the substance in question.

Other causes for colic might include sensory issues or other "hidden" things.

What does make this baby happy? Tummy pressure, swaddling, swinging, etc? Is he super spitty?

I want to help you--and that baby--I really do!
This is very possible. I would do some investigating. Is baby breast or formula fed? If it's BM it could be related to mom's diet. if it's formula he could be lactose intolerant.

It could also just be his temperament. Some babies just cry more than others.

Good luck....I hope it passes soon.
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Zoe 02:23 PM 12-13-2011
Well I feel somewhat responsible for this thread becoming an argument. I was the first one that said something about crying it out, NOT wdmmom. And I misread the thread about this child being a newborn. I was thinking it was an older child. I apologize if I started anything.

FTR, I wouldn't let a newborn CIO. They need to be held. I was referring to an older baby who can't self-sooth.
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Crystal 02:26 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by Zoe:
Well I feel somewhat responsible for this thread becoming an argument. I was the first one that said something about crying it out, NOT wdmmom. And I misread the thread about this child being a newborn. I was thinking it was an older child. I apologize if I started anything.

FTR, I wouldn't let a newborn CIO. They need to be held. I was referring to an older baby who can't self-sooth.
I think it was all a big misunderstanding.....as usual.
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SilverSabre25 02:27 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by Meeko60:
The article is a good one and for the most part I agree.

But there are times when you have done all you can. Baby is fed, diapered, clean, healthy, cuddled...he's just screaming....non-stop. There are times when you need to put the baby in the crib and walk away and breathe.

I am convinced we would have less shaken baby syndrome in this country if parents were not led to believe that if you put baby down for a split second you're a bad parent. Or that crying means you're doing something wrong.

As another poster said, we are told during training about shaken baby syndrome that it is OK to leave baby for a while and walk away.
No, ypu're absolutely right, that sometimes there's nothing you can do...but if that happens frequently I do believe that an underlying cause MUST exist. Usually, food-related. Someday, I'm going to have the chance to conduct some sort of experiment/study and prove this to be true...that in many cases of "colic", there is a damn good REASON why the child is crying.
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Zoe 02:27 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by Crystal:
I think it was all a big misunderstanding.....as usual.
I can imagine that it is VERY difficult to fully comprehend what we're reading when we have 6-12 kids in our house.
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mismatchedsocks 02:28 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by Crystal:
I think it was all a big misunderstanding.....as usual.
Is it really that time? That is so odd, But hope the original poster doesnt feel threatened, it really is ok to hear all sides, about everything, even if no one agrees.
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SilverSabre25 02:29 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by Crystal:
This is very possible. I would do some investigating. Is baby breast or formula fed? If it's BM it could be related to mom's diet. if it's formula he could be lactose intolerant.

It could also just be his temperament. Some babies just cry more than others.

Good luck....I hope it passes soon.
Actually, true lactose intolerance is very rare--it's usually a dairy sensitivity/allergy. http://www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns...tolerance.html
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Crystal 02:32 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by SilverSabre25:
Actually, true lactose intolerance is very rare--it's usually a dairy sensitivity/allergy. http://www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns...tolerance.html
Interesting. Thanks for sharing
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SilverSabre25 02:34 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by Crystal:
Interesting. Thanks for sharing
You're welcome! I didn't know this either until a couple weeks ago...and this despite having a dairy sensitive babe of my own and doing all this reading myself about six months ago!
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CheekyChick 02:37 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by frgsonmysox:
As a parent I'd be livid if a daycare worker let my child cry it out without my permission. Crying it out has long term consequences.
I completely agree. We over-pamper here, but I figure they are only babies once and they deserve the rocking and cuddling until they fall asleep.
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frgsonmysox 02:45 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I don't mean this with any disrespect because we are all free to raise our children as we see fit, but attached parenting and child care does not work very well together. Both concepts seem to be from completely different starting points....kwim?

I think AP is great but NOT for kids who have to be in group care. It just is not feasible. AP is awesome for mom's who are sahm's in my opinion.

FWIW~ I am NOT a fan of CIO either. I think parents have a reponsibility to their child, themselves and the provider to set routines and practices that are applicable in home AND child care. If they do things only one way (which doesn't always work in a childcare setting) then it isn't fair to the child or the provider.
I don't think they have to be mutually exclusive. If I can be an AP parent to 5 kids I think I can add a few daycare kids into the mix and still stay true to my philosophies. I already babysit for my friends kids and when that happens I can have 10 or so kids in my care, all of which I care for with an AP attitude.

Originally Posted by Country Kids:
I think six months is the best time for them to start learning to get to sleep! Over holiday weekend I was with a six month old that the entire time I was there was not put down once!!!! We were at the house for 4 or 5 hours and the baby was put in a bouncy set and immediately started crying and was picked up right away. The baby only slept 10 min for the entire time we were there. My teenager was handed the baby and asked to walk the baby around because parents, grandparents, and everyone else was tired of walking the child.

Even my husband notice that the child wasn't put down when we were there. A child that age should be able to play, self soothe, and have some quiet time especially during the length of time.
None of my kids slept through the night until 2. None of them have had to CIO and I don't believe that CIO is necessary for kids to learn to self soothe. They will do so in their own time. Thats my personal belief.

If you want to let your own kids CIO, thats your prerogative. I disagree with it, but you have to do what you need to do. I do not think it should happen in a daycare setting though.
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Blackcat31 02:46 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by SilverSabre25:
Actually, true lactose intolerance is very rare--it's usually a dairy sensitivity/allergy. http://www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns...tolerance.html
This is sooo true! The crying baby thread I posted about a few weeks back is proof of this...mom cut out ALL dairy from her diet and the result is that I have one happy baby now! Yah!!

Well, and I learned he really doesn't like lying down. If he is in the jumper or anything that keeps him up right like the Bumbo chair, he is happy as can be. For sleeping, he gets swaddled and now sleeps a full two hours.
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SilverSabre25 02:48 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
This is sooo true! The crying baby thread I posted about a few weeks back is proof of this...mom cut out ALL dairy from her diet and the result is that I have one happy baby now! Yah!!

Well, and I learned he really doesn't like lying down. If he is in the jumper or anything that keeps him up right like the Bumbo chair, he is happy as can be. For sleeping, he gets swaddled and now sleeps a full two hours.
YAY!!!! I'm so glad!!! That's awesome. That was my experience with my DS and he went from heading down the colic road to being the happiest little dude I've ever known.

So glad that that mom was willing to cut the dairy! It's hard (trust me, I know!) but kudos to her!!!
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BigMama 03:21 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by mrsp'slilpeeps:
Just a bunch of mumbo jumbo if you ask me.
This makes me sad. Decades of research has proven that babies learn through their senses and movement: through touch, through hearing soothing voices and sounds, through touch, through being free to move their bodies, and did I mention, through touch. It is proven that young infants cannot be spoiled. They must have the closeness and touch not only to learn and grow but to SURVIVE. Responsive caregiving leads to less fussy babies in the long run. Infants must bond with their caregivers and trust that their needs will be met.
While it is perfectly acceptable for child care providers to have differing opinions, styles, and practices, it is NOT acceptable to ignore years of knowledge regarding brain development, child development, and developmentally appropriate practice. If we don't learn about about children and accept that there are standards of care that must be met, then who are we to these children and their families?
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frgsonmysox 03:26 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by BigMama:
This makes me sad. Decades of research has proven that babies learn through their senses and movement: through touch, through hearing soothing voices and sounds, through touch, through being free to move their bodies, and did I mention, through touch. It is proven that young infants cannot be spoiled. They must have the closeness and touch not only to learn and grow but to SURVIVE. Responsive caregiving leads to less fussy babies in the long run. Infants must bond with their caregivers and trust that their needs will be met.
While it is perfectly acceptable for child care providers to have differing opinions, styles, and practices, it is NOT acceptable to ignore years of knowledge regarding brain development, child development, and developmentally appropriate practice. If we don't learn about about children and accept that there are standards of care that must be met, then who are we to these children and their families?

I totally agree!
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Crystal 03:32 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by BigMama:
This makes me sad. Decades of research has proven that babies learn through their senses and movement: through touch, through hearing soothing voices and sounds, through touch, through being free to move their bodies, and did I mention, through touch. It is proven that young infants cannot be spoiled. They must have the closeness and touch not only to learn and grow but to SURVIVE. Responsive caregiving leads to less fussy babies in the long run. Infants must bond with their caregivers and trust that their needs will be met.
While it is perfectly acceptable for child care providers to have differing opinions, styles, and practices, it is NOT acceptable to ignore years of knowledge regarding brain development, child development, and developmentally appropriate practice. If we don't learn about about children and accept that there are standards of care that must be met, then who are we to these children and their families?
THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!

I'd have said the same thing but I'd just get blasted for it
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cheerfuldom 03:36 PM 12-13-2011
The thing about the hot button issues is that some things we can do as parents that we cannot do as providers and many of the AP things are something a parent can provide, not a daycare provider......such as a lot of baby wearing and "in arms" type care. Unfortunately, my daycare babies do some crying as wee ones but I only take one baby at a time (under 12 months) because they do need that extra time and attention, this way I don't have to do strict CIO with a young one. About 4 to 6 months is when I get them on to a routine and a well rested, well fed baby cries a lot less and keeps me from getting burnt out. I am horrified at the number of babies some providers or even facilities take. You know those kids are crying all day and most likely in equipment for most of the day.
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hoopinglady 03:46 PM 12-13-2011
I brought my newborn home to my daycare 2 days after he was born and I didn't let him cry it out. I just worked around his sleeping. I really don't remember much, was in a bit of a fog back then.

It can be done, you just have to plan ahead.

I would be concerned with the screaming, make sure to rule out the tummy issues.

I think the concern from other poster was with your use of the word "spoiled". I think people are trying, generally, to educate, not attack.

I also think it's sad that newborns are going into daycare at all, to be honest.
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Unregistered 03:59 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by SilverSabre25:
No, ypu're absolutely right, that sometimes there's nothing you can do...but if that happens frequently I do believe that an underlying cause MUST exist. Usually, food-related. Someday, I'm going to have the chance to conduct some sort of experiment/study and prove this to be true...that in many cases of "colic", there is a damn good REASON why the child is crying.
Gas that can't funnel out~ Try working the body, burping from the butt up and moving the legs up and down and in a ride a bike motion, nice gentle pats. Try holding on the side, sometimes from the hip to the arm pit, gas bubbles form. Gentle massage to release.

Maybe try gas drops.

Love the Dr. Brown bottles too. They work well.

Don't underestimate these kiddo's. They are smart and some know just how to get what they want. They want comfort of a warm body to take care of them and make them feel safe and secure.

Another thought is teething- some infants teeth early.
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Unregistered 04:01 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I don't mean this with any disrespect because we are all free to raise our children as we see fit, but attached parenting and child care does not work very well together. Both concepts seem to be from completely different starting points....kwim?

I think AP is great but NOT for kids who have to be in group care. It just is not feasible. AP is awesome for mom's who are sahm's in my opinion.

FWIW~ I am NOT a fan of CIO either. I think parents have a reponsibility to their child, themselves and the provider to set routines and practices that are applicable in home AND child care. If they do things only one way (which doesn't always work in a childcare setting) then it isn't fair to the child or the provider.
This is really good-
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Heidi 04:07 PM 12-13-2011
Somewhere between CIO and attachment parenting there is a cozy middle ground for me.

A baby whose needs have been met, and who has been cuddled, engaged, and loved, can and should be able to entertain themselves for short periods of time. Crying constantly indicates to me there is a problem. My approach would be to find out what the problem is. Two have been suggested here..digestive or over stimulation.

As far as the provider coping, I would hold him when you can, and when you can't, for whatever reason, put him down. Nearby, but not so close that everyone's ear drums are ruptured. Tell him..."I am going to put you down for a few minutes. I will be nearby". No, he can't understand the words, but he will begin to understand the tone. Walk away for 3 or 4 minutes, then come back and rub his tummy, and reassure him again. Lengthen the time a bit at a time. Offer him his thumb to suck, or a small wash-rag bunny, maybe.

Personally, I would not be able to have a screaming sack-o-potatoes hanging on me in a sling. My own adrenaline would kick in, and I totally believe in would be counterintuitive. I could not physically do it, either.

SAHM-Remember that this part is so temporary! He is only ten weeks, but think about where he'll be in a month. All this will probably be behind you. And, in a few months, he'll may be crawling already!
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Christian Mother 04:38 PM 12-13-2011
I am a parent and provider that does believe in CIO. I believe in the old fashioned approach to things. Oldy is a goody...

I hate hate to hear the babies cry...I am the first one to come running and pick them up..I never had to do that with my son bc he was such a great sleeper..but my daughter did not like to sleep...it was like she thought she was missing out..lol!!

My husband would send me out for walks when we used the cio with her. She was much older though...I'd say 10months. Babies, they need a LOT of attention all the time.

My first baby came to me at 3 1/2 always slept...never had to use the cio method. But I have a little lady who came at the same age and she was colicy...I tried those gas drops on her after asking the parents to supply them and try them there selves...worked like a charm...not to mention burping every 1 and then working to 2 oz and so forth. She's 5 1/2 we started cio with her at 4mos. She is on a wonderful schedule although i really work around her. If she decides not to sleep I just keep her up until I see the signs that she's about to drop and lay her down. She'll fight it for 2 mins and out she goes. I only get that once in a while. But grandma and parents are now having a hard time getting her to take her naps. I found that she is getting hungry now and not just with a bottle she needs substance. If she isn't getting rice cereal for breakfast lunch and dinner she is cranky..lol...

In my opion.. You need to do what you feel WORKS for you. Not everything works for every child...it takes time to find what works for both child and provider. CIO does works for me and I believe that self soothing is a good thing. Do you let a child lay there and cry for ever...no,...I don't know anyone who could exhort it... I am sensitive to a babies cries...I'm picking them up ...but i am also going to try the cio. If it doesn't work it doesn't work. Today for me it didn't my little lady went past 7 min of cry and even picking up and laying back down didn't help...so I got her up and we played or tried to bc she was overly tired. She needed to sleep and I knew she needed to sleep. Eventually she feel asleep back in her pnp 30 min later then she normally does. It takes a lot of patience. Eventually they'll grow out of the colicy stage and get on a good sleep routine.
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frgsonmysox 05:26 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom:
The thing about the hot button issues is that some things we can do as parents that we cannot do as providers and many of the AP things are something a parent can provide, not a daycare provider......such as a lot of baby wearing and "in arms" type care. Unfortunately, my daycare babies do some crying as wee ones but I only take one baby at a time (under 12 months) because they do need that extra time and attention, this way I don't have to do strict CIO with a young one. About 4 to 6 months is when I get them on to a routine and a well rested, well fed baby cries a lot less and keeps me from getting burnt out. I am horrified at the number of babies some providers or even facilities take. You know those kids are crying all day and most likely in equipment for most of the day.
I don't think it's impossible to not use CIO as a daycare provider. I've never had to use CIO when I was a nanny or worked at the centers (we had 8 babies to 2 providers). When I open up in June I'll have a 4 month old. If I take on a baby I'll only take on 1 other. I know I can care for that many without resorting to CIO. If I couldn't I wouldn't take those kids on.

I am about to have my 5th child and have never had to CIO with any of them, even when it comes to caring for my other kids. My three oldest are excellent sleepers now, my youngest is currently waking up once a night but thats a lot less than just a few weeks ago. We have never had to sleep train to get them to sleep.

I do agree that if you are about to lose your cool you need to step away for a few minutes, but thats vastly different than sleep training. It breaks my heart that so many providers are okay with CIO. I understand we all have different philosophies but I can't see separating my parenting philosophy from my Provider one.
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Hunni Bee 05:53 PM 12-13-2011
I personally don't think a child that young belongs in child care yet.

But a question: does CIO refer to a child left alone in a crib to tire itself out with crying, or a child with a caregiver sitting nearby, gently touching the child and saying soothing words or both? Or does it matter?


I helped raise my now 2 year old nephew from birth, and around 4 or 5 months old, he decided he hated to nap or go to sleep at night. He had realized that going to sleep meant he couldn't be up with us anymore. It didn't matter how long we let him stay up or how much he'd played during the day, he hated sleep. If we let him just pass out without doing his routine, he'd be back up in an hour screaming and evil. So once he was fed, diapered, jammied, and sleepy-eyed, and we put him him down (or even rocked him), the angry screaming would start. And go on for sometimes 45 minutes or more, as he fought sleep. It didn't matter if he was down or in our arms. But we never gave in and let him get back up and play, no matter how hard he screamed...

BTW...he was generally a good baby...it was just THIS.

Were we allowing him to cry it out?
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SilverSabre25 06:02 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by Hunni Bee:
I personally don't think a child that young belongs in child care yet.

But a question: does CIO refer to a child left alone in a crib to tire itself out with crying, or a child with a caregiver sitting nearby, gently touching the child and saying soothing words or both? Or does it matter?


I helped raise my now 2 year old nephew from birth, and around 4 or 5 months old, he decided he hated to nap or go to sleep at night. He had realized that going to sleep meant he couldn't be up with us anymore. So once he was fed, diapered, jammied, and sleepy-eyed, and we put him him down (or even rocked him), the angry screaming would start. And go on for sometimes 45 minutes or more, as he fought sleep. It didn't matter if he was down or in our arms. But we never gave in and let him get back up and play, no matter how hard he screamed...

Were we allowing him to cry it out?
No, "Cry It Out" refers to leaving the child alone while they scream their poor little hearts out until they give up and go to sleep, from exhaustion. They give up hope that someone is going to come help them. They give up trust.

What you did with your nephew was fine.

Letting a baby fuss softly in their room alone, is fine.

Letting a baby scream until it's coughing and choking, letting a baby scream until his face turns red, letting a baby scream like alone that for hours upon hours, THAT is what "CIO" refers to. THAT is what is not okay. THAT is what is dangerous.
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CountryMommy 06:06 PM 12-13-2011
I've been wondering the same thing, about what the definitions of CIO really are.

I also agree with the ones who said that children that young shouldn't be in a daycare setting. It kind of makes me wonder why people are having children if right after they are born, they send them off for someone else to take care of them for the vast majority of the day. It really, really saddens me because I strongly believe that young infants NEED their mommies.
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queenbee 07:48 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by CountryMommy:
It kind of makes me wonder why people are having children if right after they are born, they send them off for someone else to take care of them for the vast majority of the day. It really, really saddens me because I strongly believe that young infants NEED their mommies.
CountryMommy - It's very unfortunate - but some parents can't afford to stay home with their new babies because of the economy. Maternity leave is NOT what it used to be. Some of my daycare parents have to got back to work after just 2-3 weeks after giving birth. If they stay home any longer, food doesn't get to the table

I dislike judgements made when parents honestly don't have a choice but to put their baby in daycare. Providing for a child cost money - money which doesn't get put into wallets unless parents are working.
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CountryMommy 07:58 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by queenbee:
CountryMommy - It's very unfortunate - but some parents can't afford to stay home with their new babies because of the economy. Maternity leave is NOT what it used to be. Some of my daycare parents have to got back to work after just 2-3 weeks after giving birth. If they stay home any longer, food doesn't get to the table

I dislike judgements made when parents honestly don't have a choice but to put their baby in daycare. Providing for a child cost money - money which doesn't get put into wallets unless parents are working.
Believe me, I was not trying to be mean or make anyone feel bad. I GET that some parents don't have a choice but to work.

But my point was why have children when you will have to send them to daycare right off the bat? Why not wait until a time in your life, or make changes in your life, that would allow you to be able to be home with your child for at least the first while of their life? KWIM?

Seriously, you all need to move to Canada so you can enjoy the 52 weeks of maternity. It's sad that newborns go from the womb to a daycare setting so quickly, and that a mom doesn't have sufficient time to recuperate from labor and to really bond with her newborn. Your guys' system is screwy.
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SilverSabre25 08:02 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by CountryMommy:
Believe me, I was not trying to be mean or make anyone feel bad. I GET that some parents don't have a choice but to work.

But my point was why have children when you will have to send them to daycare right off the bat? Why not wait until a time in your life, or make changes in your life, that would allow you to be able to be home with your child for at least the first while of their life? KWIM?

Seriously, you all need to move to Canada so you can enjoy the 52 weeks of maternity. It's sad that newborns go from the womb to a daycare setting so quickly, and that a mom doesn't have sufficient time to recuperate from labor and to really bond with her newborn. Your guys' system is screwy.
Amen to that!

Believe me, I've seriously considered moving there for that and other reasons! My father lives there so it wouldn't be *too* terribly weird to decide to do it.

Although, for good parental leave, I'd like to go to Norway, please. Or was it Sweden? Or Denmark? One of those Nordic countries. Each parent gets 18 months of parental leave, and it can be taken such that a child has a parent at home with them full-time until they are 3 years old. And they have free daycares, too, IIRC.
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CountryMommy 08:06 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by SilverSabre25:
Amen to that!

Believe me, I've seriously considered moving there for that and other reasons! My father lives there so it wouldn't be *too* terribly weird to decide to do it.

Although, for good parental leave, I'd like to go to Norway, please. Or was it Sweden? Or Denmark? One of those Nordic countries. Each parent gets 18 months of parental leave, and it can be taken such that a child has a parent at home with them full-time until they are 3 years old. And they have free daycares, too, IIRC.
Wow! That's amazing. Lucky, lucky children! (Not to mention parents!)
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Blackcat31 08:45 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by SilverSabre25:
Amen to that!

Believe me, I've seriously considered moving there for that and other reasons! My father lives there so it wouldn't be *too* terribly weird to decide to do it.

Although, for good parental leave, I'd like to go to Norway, please. Or was it Sweden? Or Denmark? One of those Nordic countries. Each parent gets 18 months of parental leave, and it can be taken such that a child has a parent at home with them full-time until they are 3 years old. And they have free daycares, too, IIRC.
One of my DCM's is from the Czech Republic and that is what they do there for family leave, then free pre-school and then school.... No daycares!

That's
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Christian Mother 08:55 PM 12-13-2011
wow, if that is the def. of cio...letting a baby scream bloody murder..I def. don't do that. I get the twitches if a baby is even fussy for over 7 min. I'm constantly checking on the baby making sure she's breathing...I freak about sudden infant syndrome. I think learning to fall asleep on their own with out assistance is a good thing. Although that normal gets introduced gradually. Every day is a mile stone.
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MyAngels 09:15 PM 12-13-2011
Originally Posted by SilverSabre25:
No, "Cry It Out" refers to leaving the child alone while they scream their poor little hearts out until they give up and go to sleep, from exhaustion. They give up hope that someone is going to come help them. They give up trust.

What you did with your nephew was fine.

Letting a baby fuss softly in their room alone, is fine.

Letting a baby scream until it's coughing and choking, letting a baby scream until his face turns red, letting a baby scream like alone that for hours upon hours, THAT is what "CIO" refers to. THAT is what is not okay. THAT is what is dangerous.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought the "cry it out" method is what people commonly call the method that Dr. Richard Ferber introduced in his book quite a while ago. If I'm remembering it correctly, it's when you put your child to sleep awake, checking on them every few minutes and gradually lengthening the time between checks. I also don't think he advocated starting it until around 6 months or so.

I'm fortunate that I have not run into a lot of sleep problems, either with my dc kids or with my own, so I can't speak to the effectiveness of this method, but I do remember it being all the rage when I was a young parent, 20 or so years ago.
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dave4him 09:20 PM 12-13-2011
When my little Erin was in the NICU for the first six weeks of her life the night nurses would go in and hold her just because she was crying and was super adorable.... they loved holding her when it was a slow night..... thanks to those wonderful ladies.... at 16 months guess who still doesnt like to be put down
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littlemommy 06:26 AM 12-14-2011
For me, personally, I could not let a baby that young CIO. I had a baby in the past whose mother said that was the only way he would sleep was to CIO-when he was 6 weeks old! Once I figured out a good feeding schedule for him he slept great here, without CIO. When I told his mom that she said that was the only way she would do it at home.

It worked here to not make him CIO, and that made things go smoothly for me. It's hard to have different ways of doing things than the parents. Honestly, for me, when that baby did cry, it made me leaky. As a breastfeeding mother, even hearing other babies cry would trigger a letdown! Kinda funny.
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Unregistered 08:40 AM 12-14-2011
Originally Posted by CountryMommy:
Believe me, I was not trying to be mean or make anyone feel bad. I GET that some parents don't have a choice but to work.

But my point was why have children when you will have to send them to daycare right off the bat? Why not wait until a time in your life, or make changes in your life, that would allow you to be able to be home with your child for at least the first while of their life? KWIM?

Seriously, you all need to move to Canada so you can enjoy the 52 weeks of maternity. It's sad that newborns go from the womb to a daycare setting so quickly, and that a mom doesn't have sufficient time to recuperate from labor and to really bond with her newborn. Your guys' system is screwy.
People who can't afford to have one parent stay home shouldn't have children? Wow, how's the view from your high horse?
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greenhouse 01:08 PM 12-14-2011
I am AP with my child and I'm a big believer in it. I thought I could offer AP style daycare....but I quickly realized AP daycare is an oxymoron. AP style is for parents only IMO. I can offer loving care, but I can't carry your toddler around all day and ignore everything else. And that means tears sometimes and I hate this part of the job. I won't take younger than 6 months personally. Best of luck OP, I hope the baby adjusts for you.
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renodeb 09:38 AM 12-16-2011
Let me guess, mom probably puts him in bed with her to. I have one little girl who started her at 2 1/2 mos. It seems like I held her alot at first and gradually got her used to being in the swing, or where ever I put her. Shes a really good baby though so it wasnt hard. The next thing for her is learning to nap consistently. Just keep in mind that when the baby was home with mom they had lots of time to hang out and hold that baby so thats all it new. I have to agree, time will be the key in this case.
Debbie
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frgsonmysox 10:00 PM 12-16-2011
Originally Posted by renodeb:
Let me guess, mom probably puts him in bed with her to. I have one little girl who started her at 2 1/2 mos. It seems like I held her alot at first and gradually got her used to being in the swing, or where ever I put her. Shes a really good baby though so it wasnt hard. The next thing for her is learning to nap consistently. Just keep in mind that when the baby was home with mom they had lots of time to hang out and hold that baby so thats all it new. I have to agree, time will be the key in this case.
Debbie
Whats wrong with co-sleeping?
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Unregistered 02:30 PM 12-17-2011
I would not let a 10 week old CIO. I think it takes a while to adjust to daycare and there may be other issues going on with the infant.

My own infant is 8 weeks old and has terrible reflux. Fussiness is just a part of having a baby in care. I try to adjust babies once they are 6-7 months and do it in a step by step manner not just CIO all at once.


I do however think this is a place where you can entertain various ideas without other people assuming that is what you are going to do regarless of the child/issue. I had a difficult infant who would not nap unless held and I posted questions about CIO. It never ended up going that way but it wasnt to say that in my head I didn't think about what options there were for this child, my daycare, my sanity, the other kids in care etc.
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Tags:holding - too long, spoiled
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