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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Another Case Of Being TOLD Instead Of ASKED!
MNMum 09:50 PM 02-06-2012
Ladies I need your help sorting this out. This got really long, sorry! My daycare is full finally! Now I have had several issues with a family with 2 kids in care. I know a lot of this could have been avoided if I had listened to your advice on policies, pay, and a backbone from the get to, but alas…here I am.
This particular family came to me last fall with a difficult preschooler and a very active toddler – who I had a terrible time getting to nap. Both kids have adapted well now, and are both extremely active, but doing well here. They are about a 1/3 of my income and about ½ of my work! Upon admission, parents took it upon themselves to make their pick up time 30 min later than I am open (in their paperwork). I brought this up, they agreed to try to make it by pick up time. Mom was teary by about day 3 because she could see such a change in her boy, and was sorry she hadn’t made a daycare switch sooner. Parents are very friendly people and chatty. Kids are here 8.5 hours.
The offenses: First week, dad was 20 min late one day – he got a stern reminder about calling (I had to be somewhere!) but I didn’t charge them (I know 1st mistake). They’ve done well with p/u since then, until about 2 weeks ago, then lateness happening regularly and mom picking up about 2 days a week instead of dad. We had a few snowy days during this time, so I didn’t immediately bring it up (I know, 2nd mistake). Then last week, mom TELLS me she will be dropping the kids off 15 mins early the next day (3rd mistake, I was busy at the time and didn’t argue). Next day at drop off she says she plans to leave her inservice early, but may not make it by closing time because of traffic. I took this opportunity to discuss my desire to be done working at “closing” time and bring up recent lateness. She said she didn’t know there had been that much and that they really needed to discuss what they were to do. I felt like I was being given the ultimatum, agree to our later needs or we may leave – but I wasn’t willing to budge on that. This morning she shows up and says to me, they would be able to make it by closing time if she could drop off 15-30 min early on days dad has something else going on. I was silent while processing this, and she then gets huffy and says “Well, I guess you’re not willing to work with me” – of course the nice me says, “well, I’m not saying that”. I asked if these would be on the same day each week – no. I agree if asks in advance.
Obviously, this is a parent that feels she is running the show here. I am a new provider, and only provide care 4 days/week. I have been working on a new pay scale that would cater highly to part-time kids, with shorter hours. Kind of the opposite of this family. Also, the opposite of many daycares. I would ideally like to close 30 mins prior to my current closing time and in the near future, this may be my only family needing care that late. I’ve been working on a pay scale similar to Nannyde’s. With my new pay scale it would increase their fee by 12% and also make these extra chunks of time they need quite expensive. $5 per 15 minute increase per day (for both kids) if prearranged, double that if they are late unplanned.
I guess my question to you is, am I being selfish, if I don’t accommodate her extra needs in the morning? Some days I have an earlier arrival – but they pay for it! And I don’t want an earlier arrival on my later mornings, I catch up on lost sleep those days! Also, will I eventually get over the fact that this woman has put me on the spot several times now, has TOLD me when she will be arriving early, doesn’t acknowledge her lateness? If I give her a new contract explaining my new fees (which is similar to Nannyde’s but also has a payscale on the front end) which increases her cost by 12%, she will most likely leave. Even by increasing her fees, I feel it is a fair rate in the childcare market here, however, she is used to getting hear “deal rate”. I could also not raise her rates but enforce my late pickup fee and introduce my prearranged longer hours fee of $10/hour – she might go for that.
Have I created a monster that will continue to walk all over me, because I allowed her to in the beginning? How is it I am able to be so strict with my dck and I let dcp walk all over me!
This particular family came to me last fall with a difficult preschooler and a very active toddler – who I had a terrible time getting to nap. Both kids have adapted well now, and are both extremely active, but doing well here. They are about a 1/3 of my income and about ½ of my work! Upon admission, parents took it upon themselves to make their pick up time 30 min later than I am open (in their paperwork). I brought this up, they agreed to try to make it by pick up time. Mom was teary by about day 3 because she could see such a change in her boy, and was sorry she hadn’t made a daycare switch sooner. Parents are very friendly people and chatty. Kids are here 8.5 hours.
The offenses: First week, dad was 20 min late one day – he got a stern reminder about calling (I had to be somewhere!) but I didn’t charge them (I know 1st mistake). They’ve done well with p/u since then, until about 2 weeks ago, then lateness happening regularly and mom picking up about 2 days a week instead of dad. We had a few snowy days during this time, so I didn’t immediately bring it up (I know, 2nd mistake). Then last week, mom TELLS me she will be dropping the kids off 15 mins early the next day (3rd mistake, I was busy at the time and didn’t argue). Next day at drop off she says she plans to leave her inservice early, but may not make it by closing time because of traffic. I took this opportunity to discuss my desire to be done working at “closing” time and bring up recent lateness. She said she didn’t know there had been that much and that they really needed to discuss what they were to do. I felt like I was being given the ultimatum, agree to our later needs or we may leave – but I wasn’t willing to budge on that. This morning she shows up and says to me, they would be able to make it by closing time if she could drop off 15-30 min early on days dad has something else going on. I was silent while processing this, and she then gets huffy and says “Well, I guess you’re not willing to work with me” – of course the nice me says, “well, I’m not saying that”. I asked if these would be on the same day each week – no. I agree if asks in advance.
Obviously, this is a parent that feels she is running the show here. I am a new provider, and only provide care 4 days/week. I have been working on a new pay scale that would cater highly to part-time kids, with shorter hours. Kind of the opposite of this family. Also, the opposite of many daycares. I would ideally like to close 30 mins prior to my current closing time and in the near future, this may be my only family needing care that late. I’ve been working on a pay scale similar to Nannyde’s. With my new pay scale it would increase their fee by 12% and also make these extra chunks of time they need quite expensive. $5 per 15 minute increase per day (for both kids) if prearranged, double that if they are late unplanned.
I guess my question to you is, am I being selfish, if I don’t accommodate her extra needs in the morning? Some days I have an earlier arrival – but they pay for it! And I don’t want an earlier arrival on my later mornings, I catch up on lost sleep those days! Also, will I eventually get over the fact that this woman has put me on the spot several times now, has TOLD me when she will be arriving early, doesn’t acknowledge her lateness? If I give her a new contract explaining my new fees (which is similar to Nannyde’s but also has a payscale on the front end) which increases her cost by 12%, she will most likely leave. Even by increasing her fees, I feel it is a fair rate in the childcare market here, however, she is used to getting hear “deal rate”. I could also not raise her rates but enforce my late pickup fee and introduce my prearranged longer hours fee of $10/hour – she might go for that.
Have I created a monster that will continue to walk all over me, because I allowed her to in the beginning? How is it I am able to be so strict with my dck and I let dcp walk all over me!
momofboys 03:44 AM 02-07-2012
Ughhh! Don't be a pushover. I would totally charge them extra for the time. I would be more strict about the closing time b/c of appts, etc. I might budge somewhat about the A.M. drop-off provided I was given advance notice & definitely attach a fee. When mom asks if she can drop off on Mon. 20 min early say, "I'd be happy to have the kids early (if you are
) but you will need to pay $X extra for that day. Good luck!
) but you will need to pay $X extra for that day. Good luck!
JenNJ 05:25 AM 02-07-2012
They are only in care for 8.5 hours, yes? I can see why this is a challenge for the parents. Most people work 8-9 hour days plus commute time. I don't think what they are asking for is unreasonable. It seems that they can either go in earlier and leave earlier or go in later and leave later.
You do have a choice -- accept that these are their work schedules or give them notice. You can attach a fee to it but I would expect them to leave if you do that. I am unsure of how long most daycares around your area are open. Around here all are open at least 9.5 hours (as I am). Ultimately you need to what is best for your business in order for this to work, but I think that your work hours would be an issue for most families with two working parents.
You do have a choice -- accept that these are their work schedules or give them notice. You can attach a fee to it but I would expect them to leave if you do that. I am unsure of how long most daycares around your area are open. Around here all are open at least 9.5 hours (as I am). Ultimately you need to what is best for your business in order for this to work, but I think that your work hours would be an issue for most families with two working parents.
Heidi 06:01 AM 02-07-2012
Originally Posted by JenNJ:
They are only in care for 8.5 hours, yes? I can see why this is a challenge for the parents. Most people work 8-9 hour days plus commute time. I don't think what they are asking for is unreasonable. It seems that they can either go in earlier and leave earlier or go in later and leave later.
You do have a choice -- accept that these are their work schedules or give them notice. You can attach a fee to it but I would expect them to leave if you do that. I am unsure of how long most daycares around your area are open. Around here all are open at least 9.5 hours (as I am). Ultimately you need to what is best for your business in order for this to work, but I think that your work hours would be an issue for most families with two working parents.
I agree! You have a right to set your schedule, but if you are not meeting "the consumer's" needs, then they may have to shop elsewhere. They are only in care for 8.5 hours, yes? I can see why this is a challenge for the parents. Most people work 8-9 hour days plus commute time. I don't think what they are asking for is unreasonable. It seems that they can either go in earlier and leave earlier or go in later and leave later.
You do have a choice -- accept that these are their work schedules or give them notice. You can attach a fee to it but I would expect them to leave if you do that. I am unsure of how long most daycares around your area are open. Around here all are open at least 9.5 hours (as I am). Ultimately you need to what is best for your business in order for this to work, but I think that your work hours would be an issue for most families with two working parents.
My hours are 7:00-5:00, but occasionally one family needs to pick up late. They can't always "ask", because it's not a choice for them. If dad must work late, then mom picks up, and she has almost an hour commute. Fortunately, this is an easy little guy. Occasionally, if I have somewhere to go, I put him in the car and take him with me, and mom meets us there for pick up. I don't mind doing it because I can, and they are very happy customers!
momofboys 06:03 AM 02-07-2012
I really don't see why it makes a difference that they are currently only there 8.5 hrs day. So because she only works 8.5 hrs/day she should bend over backward to accomodate their every beck & call? Not all providers have "open" hours. It sounds to me like the parents were not upfront about how much time they needed for care from the get-go. It's as if you sign up for one thing & then demand something entirely different - that is what I take an issue with. It's the idea that the parents are being pushy & think they can demand whatever they want - totally has nothing to do with the fact that kids are "only" in care 8.5 hrs.
Heidi 06:12 AM 02-07-2012
Originally Posted by momofboys:
I really don't see why it makes a difference that they are currently only there 8.5 hrs day. So because she only works 8.5 hrs/day she should bend over backward to accomodate their every beck & call? Not all providers have "open" hours. It sounds to me like the parents were not upfront about how much time they needed for care from the get-go. It's as if you sign up for one thing & then demand something entirely different - that is what I take an issue with. It's the idea that the parents are being pushy & think they can demand whatever they want - totally has nothing to do with the fact that kids are "only" in care 8.5 hrs.
She doesn't have to bend over backwards. But, like I said, if the customer has a need, she can either meet the need or they can shop elsewhere. I really don't see why it makes a difference that they are currently only there 8.5 hrs day. So because she only works 8.5 hrs/day she should bend over backward to accomodate their every beck & call? Not all providers have "open" hours. It sounds to me like the parents were not upfront about how much time they needed for care from the get-go. It's as if you sign up for one thing & then demand something entirely different - that is what I take an issue with. It's the idea that the parents are being pushy & think they can demand whatever they want - totally has nothing to do with the fact that kids are "only" in care 8.5 hrs.
If every store in town is open from 7-11, and your store is only open from 8-5, you are going to loose out on some customers. Do you HAVE to change your hours? Can the customers DEMAND that you change them? No!. But, if the customers say "I can't get to your store during your hours", and you want those customers, then you'd have to consider it.
Blackcat31 06:42 AM 02-07-2012
Originally Posted by bbo:
She doesn't have to bend over backwards. But, like I said, if the customer has a need, she can either meet the need or they can shop elsewhere.
If every store in town is open from 7-11, and your store is only open from 8-5, you are going to loose out on some customers. Do you HAVE to change your hours? Can the customers DEMAND that you change them? No!. But, if the customers say "I can't get to your store during your hours", and you want those customers, then you'd have to consider it.
She doesn't have to bend over backwards. But, like I said, if the customer has a need, she can either meet the need or they can shop elsewhere.
If every store in town is open from 7-11, and your store is only open from 8-5, you are going to loose out on some customers. Do you HAVE to change your hours? Can the customers DEMAND that you change them? No!. But, if the customers say "I can't get to your store during your hours", and you want those customers, then you'd have to consider it.
That's kind of what I was thinking too.... either accommodate or send them along their way. I offer certain hours. I have had many people call and say "Oh, well I will need to pick up a bit later than 5:30 ok" Um, no. I close AT 5:30. I make no exceptions. If I really wanted a family, it is MY choice to consider if I will stay late or not. FWIW~ I never have and I honestly don't think I ever would. Even my long term families that have had something come up like a late meeting or traffic are required to either find alternate pick up or they are charged a pretty heftly fee and the lateness counts against them for future considerations.
OP~ You did a good job recognizing your mistakes with this family.
Now you will either need to put your foot down with them and be firm (and possibly risk losing them) or do as they ask and accept it. 
MrsB 06:58 AM 02-07-2012
You are more than justified in wanting to set clear boundries on what you are willing to do and what you are not. But we can't really get upset at the parents when they disagree or get upset that that doesnt meet their needs and find other care. You totally have a right to be upset that they are arriving late if that is what is in your contract. Maybe you should sit down with her and say that you appologize for maybe not making it so clear at first but that your daycare is mostly set up for part timers and these are your non-negotiables. Tell her that you really love her kids and if they can make it work than you would love to keep them, but if not you understand. You have to be upfront with them and give an ultimatum but can't be upset or take it personal if they say that wont work. In return, if they say they are going to make it work than they need to stick to it. IMHO I would much rather have them arrive 15 minutes earlier than have them be late. Tell them that you are willing to change the contract to 15 minutes earlier because you would rather do that than have several late pickups, but that you can't extend the hours any more. (If you agree to that)
Most of my parents have a long commute. I live in the suburbs of DC. So traffic is a big issue. I give my parents 2x per month of being late, without me charging. This means that I get a phone call BEFORE they are late. and it can be no longer than 20 minutes. I tell parents at the initial interview. Everytime you are late you are cutting into my family time and this is what really makes me upset. If it happens 2x or more per month then we need to talk about changing your contract which could mean more $ or the fact that I just can't accomodate your needs. THEN YOU NEED to stick to it and charge the late fee if you say you are going to.
Its so hard not to take stuff personally in this business. But you have to try REALLY hard. If you let them "bend" the rules DCP+ will take 500 miles.
Wishing you the best of luck with this one! I wish daycare parents always saw what a great deal they were getting!
Most of my parents have a long commute. I live in the suburbs of DC. So traffic is a big issue. I give my parents 2x per month of being late, without me charging. This means that I get a phone call BEFORE they are late. and it can be no longer than 20 minutes. I tell parents at the initial interview. Everytime you are late you are cutting into my family time and this is what really makes me upset. If it happens 2x or more per month then we need to talk about changing your contract which could mean more $ or the fact that I just can't accomodate your needs. THEN YOU NEED to stick to it and charge the late fee if you say you are going to.
Its so hard not to take stuff personally in this business. But you have to try REALLY hard. If you let them "bend" the rules DCP+ will take 500 miles.
Wishing you the best of luck with this one! I wish daycare parents always saw what a great deal they were getting!
Heidi 07:09 AM 02-07-2012
Originally Posted by momofboys:
I really don't see why it makes a difference that they are currently only there 8.5 hrs day. So because she only works 8.5 hrs/day she should bend over backward to accomodate their every beck & call? Not all providers have "open" hours. It sounds to me like the parents were not upfront about how much time they needed for care from the get-go. It's as if you sign up for one thing & then demand something entirely different - that is what I take an issue with. It's the idea that the parents are being pushy & think they can demand whatever they want - totally has nothing to do with the fact that kids are "only" in care 8.5 hrs.
She doesn't have to bend over backwards. But, like I said, if the customer has a need, she can either meet the need or they can shop elsewhere. I really don't see why it makes a difference that they are currently only there 8.5 hrs day. So because she only works 8.5 hrs/day she should bend over backward to accomodate their every beck & call? Not all providers have "open" hours. It sounds to me like the parents were not upfront about how much time they needed for care from the get-go. It's as if you sign up for one thing & then demand something entirely different - that is what I take an issue with. It's the idea that the parents are being pushy & think they can demand whatever they want - totally has nothing to do with the fact that kids are "only" in care 8.5 hrs.
If every store in town is open from 7-11, and your store is only open from 8-5, you are going to loose out on some customers. Do you HAVE to change your hours? Can the customers DEMAND that you change them? No!. But, if the customers say "I can't get to your store during your hours", and you want those customers, then you'd have to consider it.
cheerfuldom 08:20 AM 02-07-2012
It is not "selfish" to determine who you like to work with. You are a business owner, start acting like one. I'm sorry but what this woman is doing to you is downright rude but you are allowing it. It goes both ways. You can stop this whenever you want but that part is up to you. We can't do the hard part for you.
Christian Mother 09:32 AM 02-07-2012
MNMUM-is your parent a teacher? You mentioned in your post that she was going to possible be late picking up bc of in service..
I have a teacher parent and she finds it quiet hard to make it here on time so she also has a schedule that fluxawaits quiet a bit. I will work with her as she is my first client but also bc I love this family..but I do love all my families..
When I was experienced what you have I set a limit to the amount of hrs I will watch children and also I don't provide services for non working parents. My set limit is 10 hrs a day. I let parents know that even though I work from this time to this time it doesn't mean that I am open to them for those whole hrs. Each family has their own SET hrs. I would ask her what here needs are and set your max hrs you'll watch her child. After set hrs attach a fee. I charge $5 for anything over their set hrs. And, I must be given a call or text if their going to be late. They know on hand that if their late I charge. They don't even ask bc I will bring it up and I will be looking for that extra $$'s in my ck.
I'll be honest...most families have a hard time with 8.5 hrs. Specially if they have a lot of travel to work and back. I would offer maybe 9 hrs of care and anything more charge what ever you feel is necessary. And make sure you lock down your rules. First offense remind them.."That is ok if your late today however, reminder...I charge x amount after such and such time". No giving in to warnings...bc you already have worked with them on new hrs which they felt would help and if those hrs don't work renegotiate with a higher rate for care. If they get upset in the higher rate explain to them that parents that use less hrs pay a lesser rate. They can always go back to though less hrs but if they are late they will get charged. You have to in force your rules or the parents will not follow them.
I have a teacher parent and she finds it quiet hard to make it here on time so she also has a schedule that fluxawaits quiet a bit. I will work with her as she is my first client but also bc I love this family..but I do love all my families..
When I was experienced what you have I set a limit to the amount of hrs I will watch children and also I don't provide services for non working parents. My set limit is 10 hrs a day. I let parents know that even though I work from this time to this time it doesn't mean that I am open to them for those whole hrs. Each family has their own SET hrs. I would ask her what here needs are and set your max hrs you'll watch her child. After set hrs attach a fee. I charge $5 for anything over their set hrs. And, I must be given a call or text if their going to be late. They know on hand that if their late I charge. They don't even ask bc I will bring it up and I will be looking for that extra $$'s in my ck.
I'll be honest...most families have a hard time with 8.5 hrs. Specially if they have a lot of travel to work and back. I would offer maybe 9 hrs of care and anything more charge what ever you feel is necessary. And make sure you lock down your rules. First offense remind them.."That is ok if your late today however, reminder...I charge x amount after such and such time". No giving in to warnings...bc you already have worked with them on new hrs which they felt would help and if those hrs don't work renegotiate with a higher rate for care. If they get upset in the higher rate explain to them that parents that use less hrs pay a lesser rate. They can always go back to though less hrs but if they are late they will get charged. You have to in force your rules or the parents will not follow them.
MNMum 12:18 PM 02-07-2012
I love getting all the viewpoints on this! I do realize that my daycare will not accommodate all families needs. I'm open to part time schedules including 1 or 2 day contracts - where many daycares are not, so I'm typically serving a different population. I also have a easy fall back for income if I can't stay full, so I'm okay with having to wait longer for the right family to come along. This particular family has one parent that gets off work 2 hours prior to their departure time. And the other parent is self employed. I'm okay with parents using time while their kids are here to do other things, as long as they aren't abusing me in the process (ie arriving late). I think what I will do, is show her my new payscale, explaining she is asking for an extra hour of care each week, therefore she will need to decide if it is worth paying for that. That extra hour will cost $10 total for the two kids and she can decide if it is worth staying or not, and explain I am enforcing my late fees from today forward. Also, enforce a phone call or text for late arrivals. Hopefully they can get on board!
saved4always 12:24 PM 02-07-2012
I don't think you are being selfish at all. Part of the reason I do this is that I can make it be whatever hours I am willing to work. I only take families who will fit the schedule that I want. If you let this family push you into providing hours you don't want to do, you will end up resenting them. I have done that in the past and I did NOT feel better about it as time went on. I felt more and more taken advantage of and everything the parents and kids did would then irritate me.
Christian Mother 12:43 PM 02-07-2012
Originally Posted by MNMum:
I love getting all the viewpoints on this! I do realize that my daycare will not accommodate all families needs. I'm open to part time schedules including 1 or 2 day contracts - where many daycares are not, so I'm typically serving a different population. I also have a easy fall back for income if I can't stay full, so I'm okay with having to wait longer for the right family to come along. This particular family has one parent that gets off work 2 hours prior to their departure time. And the other parent is self employed. I'm okay with parents using time while their kids are here to do other things, as long as they aren't abusing me in the process (ie arriving late). I think what I will do, is show her my new payscale, explaining she is asking for an extra hour of care each week, therefore she will need to decide if it is worth paying for that. That extra hour will cost $10 total for the two kids and she can decide if it is worth staying or not, and explain I am enforcing my late fees from today forward. Also, enforce a phone call or text for late arrivals. Hopefully they can get on board!
Sounds like a great plan!! I love getting all the viewpoints on this! I do realize that my daycare will not accommodate all families needs. I'm open to part time schedules including 1 or 2 day contracts - where many daycares are not, so I'm typically serving a different population. I also have a easy fall back for income if I can't stay full, so I'm okay with having to wait longer for the right family to come along. This particular family has one parent that gets off work 2 hours prior to their departure time. And the other parent is self employed. I'm okay with parents using time while their kids are here to do other things, as long as they aren't abusing me in the process (ie arriving late). I think what I will do, is show her my new payscale, explaining she is asking for an extra hour of care each week, therefore she will need to decide if it is worth paying for that. That extra hour will cost $10 total for the two kids and she can decide if it is worth staying or not, and explain I am enforcing my late fees from today forward. Also, enforce a phone call or text for late arrivals. Hopefully they can get on board!
Good luck and make sure you enforce!! Don't waiver...your worth it and keep telling your self that!!
MarinaVanessa 01:31 PM 02-07-2012
Originally Posted by Christian Mother:
Sounds like a great plan!! Good luck and make sure you enforce!! Don't waiver...your worth it and keep telling your self that!!
I agree. Sounds like a great plan!!
Good luck and make sure you enforce!! Don't waiver...your worth it and keep telling your self that!!I still can't get over the fact that they are picking up late and DCM's solution is that she be allowed to drop off early
. I would do exactly as you have proposed to do. "Hey DCM, get here to pick up on time. Have to arrive earlier in the morning in order to do that? Sure, no problem. That'll be an extra $$ a week. Thanks!"