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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>When do you Give Tax IDs to DCPs?
Breezy 08:10 PM 03-25-2012
Enrolled DCG in Feb 2012 and she is requesting my tax ID now. Why? She won't get to use it this year so why does she need it now?
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sharlan 10:06 PM 03-25-2012
I would tell her that you will give her a receipt with your tax id next Jan. She has no need of it now.
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Lucy 10:11 PM 03-25-2012
I would be afraid that she's going to try to use it this year. If she reports that she paid you in 2011 and you don't report that income, you could have troubles proving that she didn't. I agree with the above suggestion to just tell her you will give her a receipt at the end of 2012 and it will include your tax id number.
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spud912 10:50 PM 03-25-2012
I have had a couple of dcp's who need the number for their flex-spending accounts. If I were you, I would just ask if it was for a flex-spending account or if they wanted it for 2012 taxes. If they say it's for taxes, tell them that you will supply a document with the number in Dec/Jan. If it's for the flex-spending account, I always just give it to them. They need the number to be reimbursed.
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momofboys 04:25 AM 03-26-2012
Years ago when I worked outside of the home & used a provider I needed her tax id to submit receipts for our flexible spending acct. I'm sure that is why she needs it but verify with her& also with her company before you proceed.
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Breezy 05:04 AM 03-26-2012
Thanks so much everyone! I will verify with her before going forward. My DH thinks shes going to give notice and thats why she is asking for it.
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Breezy 06:11 AM 03-26-2012
She says she needs it to file the amount they paid for in childcare for the year. They didn't start until Jan 24th, 2012. She said she asks for it up front to ensure the provider has one or a SSN so they are aware we will file. Should I give it to her or stick with she will get in in Jan?
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daycare123 06:14 AM 03-26-2012
i would not give it to her till the end of the year!! That way no funny business can happen.
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Blackcat31 06:16 AM 03-26-2012
Originally Posted by Breezy:
She says she needs it to file the amount they paid for in childcare for the year. They didn't start until Jan 24th, 2012. She said she asks for it up front to ensure the provider has one or a SSN so they are aware we will file. Should I give it to her or stick with she will get in in Jan?
If you use MMK to print out billings or receipts, your EIN is printed right on it so each of my parents receives it (my EIN) each time they pay me.

If you give her a print out for what she has paid you since Jan 24, 2012 and she tries to use it for a different year, there really isn't anything you can do about it.

I wouldn't worry, since you have the documents to prove that she started in January of 2012.

Who's to say that she can't take your EIN at the end of this year and use it to do last years taxes too (if she was late doing them)? Know what I mean?

You can't really control what parents do with your EIN. All you can do is keep acurate records so your butt is always covered.
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Breezy 06:35 AM 03-26-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
If you use MMK to print out billings or receipts, your EIN is printed right on it so each of my parents receives it (my EIN) each time they pay me.

If you give her a print out for what she has paid you since Jan 24, 2012 and she tries to use it for a different year, there really isn't anything you can do about it.

I wouldn't worry, since you have the documents to prove that she started in January of 2012.

Who's to say that she can't take your EIN at the end of this year and use it to do last years taxes too (if she was late doing them)? Know what I mean?

You can't really control what parents do with your EIN. All you can do is keep acurate records so your butt is always covered.
I feel like if she doesn't trust I am telling her the truth that I have an EIN then I shouldn't have her kid here. She is always trying to be in control of something and telling me what to do or how to talk. Or that she is concerned about me working til 8pm and being able to get up and take care of her kid,
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Blackcat31 06:46 AM 03-26-2012
Originally Posted by Breezy:
I feel like if she doesn't trust I am telling her the truth that I have an EIN then I shouldn't have her kid here. She is always trying to be in control of something and telling me what to do or how to talk. Or that she is concerned about me working til 8pm and being able to get up and take care of her kid,
I think that is more her issue than anything. I don't think the EIN has anything to do with it. Besides, even if you didn't have an EIN, I don't see how that makes you any less or more trustworthy. You can still be running a completely 100% legit business without an EIN and I surely wouldn't be handing out my SS# to anyone. Even if you didn't claim your income from daycare (which I know you do) she can still claim anything she paid out so that is really just a dumb excuse on her part.

I would address the trust issue with her if I were you. I would tell her (or write her a note...PM me if you need help) saying that you get the feeling she really doesn't trust you and that in order for you two to continue with the child care contract, there needs to be some level of trust. If she is constantly questioning everything you do, I am not sure I would be comfortable continuing to care for her. Some people are just like that and are never happy with anyone but YOU don't have to do things that way.

I know providers don't want to always term or lose a client but one thing I do know for sure is in this business, if you don't have clients you can work with (trust) then you are going to drive yourself wacky and start to hate your job!

NO amount of money is worth feeling inadequate because of a parent. Speak up and let her know how you feel. If she doesn't like it, then she signed your contract so she can refer to it in finding out how to withdraw from care.

YOU do what YOU need to do and don't let her bully you or make you feel less than capable!
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Breezy 07:02 AM 03-26-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I think that is more her issue than anything. I don't think the EIN has anything to do with it. Besides, even if you didn't have an EIN, I don't see how that makes you any less or more trustworthy. You can still be running a completely 100% legit business without an EIN and I surely wouldn't be handing out my SS# to anyone. Even if you didn't claim your income from daycare (which I know you do) she can still claim anything she paid out so that is really just a dumb excuse on her part.

I would address the trust issue with her if I were you. I would tell her (or write her a note...PM me if you need help) saying that you get the feeling she really doesn't trust you and that in order for you two to continue with the child care contract, there needs to be some level of trust. If she is constantly questioning everything you do, I am not sure I would be comfortable continuing to care for her. Some people are just like that and are never happy with anyone but YOU don't have to do things that way.

I know providers don't want to always term or lose a client but one thing I do know for sure is in this business, if you don't have clients you can work with (trust) then you are going to drive yourself wacky and start to hate your job!

NO amount of money is worth feeling inadequate because of a parent. Speak up and let her know how you feel. If she doesn't like it, then she signed your contract so she can refer to it in finding out how to withdraw from care.

YOU do what YOU need to do and don't let her bully you or make you feel less than capable!

That is exactly how I feel. Whenever she talks to me she talks down to me and interactions with her make me sick to my stomach. I want to term them but I feel bad DCG will have to go to yet another DC
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spud912 07:11 AM 03-26-2012
I find it odd that she trusts you to watch her child, yet she doesn't trust that you file taxes at the end of the year. Seriously, who cares? Let's say you don't file taxes, then it would be you who got in trouble, not her. Why is it any of her business???
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countrymom 07:22 AM 03-26-2012
I wouldn't give it to her. Her whole story doesn't make sense. Do you want your number floating around, I know I wouldn't want it. Tell her know until tax time and if she has problems with it, tell her to talk to your accountant.
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Kim 07:40 AM 03-26-2012
I include my EIN on weekly receipts for parents that require it for their flex account. Other families get one receipt for the year at tax time. As long as you keep good records, you should be covered if a family claims something at tax time that they shouldn't.

Something sounds strange with this family though. To me it sounds like she may be getting ready to bolt and wants to be sure she can still claim what she's spent when it comes time for taxes next year. All of my flex account families require a receipt with the EIN, dates of care the money applies to and amount paid. If she needed your EIN for her flex account wouldn't she just ask you a receipt with all the required info on it each time she pays you rather than just ask you for your EIN # and nothing more?
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Breezy 07:40 AM 03-26-2012
Originally Posted by countrymom:
I wouldn't give it to her. Her whole story doesn't make sense. Do you want your number floating around, I know I wouldn't want it. Tell her know until tax time and if she has problems with it, tell her to talk to your accountant.
I wish I had an accountant otherwise thats exactly what I would say. I havent responded to the last message saying they want it up front yet. I still have no idea what to say when she responds p off because I tell her I will give it to her in Jan.
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Breezy 07:43 AM 03-26-2012
Originally Posted by Kim:
I include my EIN on weekly receipts for parents that require it for their flex account. Other families get one receipt for the year at tax time. As long as you keep good records, you should be covered if a family claims something at tax time that they shouldn't.

Something sounds strange with this family though. To me it sounds like she may be getting ready to bolt and wants to be sure she can still claim what she's spent when it comes time for taxes next year. All of my flex account families require a receipt with the EIN, dates of care the money applies to and amount paid. If she needed your EIN for her flex account wouldn't she just ask you a receipt with all the required info on it each time she pays you rather than just ask you for your EIN # and nothing more?
I asked if she needed it for a flex account and she said No. That she asks for it up front to be sure the provider has a SSN or EIN. I obviously have a SSN which I would NOT give out prior to tax time period. My DH thinks she is going to give notice or yes just bolt and thats why she wants the EIN now. Like she thinks I wont give it if she terms.
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Kim 07:54 AM 03-26-2012
Originally Posted by Breezy:
I asked if she needed it for a flex account and she said No. That she asks for it up front to be sure the provider has a SSN or EIN. I obviously have a SSN which I would NOT give out prior to tax time period. My DH thinks she is going to give notice or yes just bolt and thats why she wants the EIN now. Like she thinks I wont give it if she terms.
Gotcha- I missed that sorry! Sounds like your DH might be right but that might be a blessing in disguise for you if she's a difficult parent. I would just tell her that you give out your EIN with receipts at tax time and they are MAILED to all families that were in care during the tax year even if they are not still enrolled at tax time. Does she think you would really mess with the federal government and break the law to not send her a receipt at tax time?
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Breezy 07:59 AM 03-26-2012
Originally Posted by Kim:
Gotcha- I missed that sorry! Sounds like your DH might be right but that might be a blessing in disguise for you if she's a difficult parent. I would just tell her that you give out your EIN with receipts at tax time and they are MAILED to all families that were in care during the tax year even if they are not still enrolled at tax time. Does she think you would really mess with the federal government and break the law to not send her a receipt at tax time?
No kidding. I mean I hate being difficulut when I could just give it to her. I don't have it memorized though and I would have to find it as I am in the process of going through all my files and reorganizing so at the moment it is not where it belongs. My DH said he saw it yesterday though
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Blackcat31 08:09 AM 03-26-2012
Originally Posted by Kim:
I include my EIN on weekly receipts for parents that require it for their flex account. Other families get one receipt for the year at tax time. As long as you keep good records, you should be covered if a family claims something at tax time that they shouldn't.

Something sounds strange with this family though. To me it sounds like she may be getting ready to bolt and wants to be sure she can still claim what she's spent when it comes time for taxes next year. All of my flex account families require a receipt with the EIN, dates of care the money applies to and amount paid. If she needed your EIN for her flex account wouldn't she just ask you a receipt with all the required info on it each time she pays you rather than just ask you for your EIN # and nothing more?
The parents I have that use flex spending bring me the flex spending form to fill out and sign so I know exactly why I am providing the info they are asking for.

Why don't you just straight up ask her why it is she needs your EIN now?
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Breezy 08:31 AM 03-26-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
The parents I have that use flex spending bring me the flex spending form to fill out and sign so I know exactly why I am providing the info they are asking for.

Why don't you just straight up ask her why it is she needs your EIN now?
I did. She said and I quote, "We need it to file the amount we paid in childcare for the year. We ask for it upfront to ensure the provider has one or a SSN and so they are aware we file."
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wdmmom 08:34 AM 03-26-2012
I would tell her this:

You will get a year end tax receipt in January 2013 for payments made in 2012. The receipt will have my tax id on it.

If she in fact needs it for the flex spending account, I would tell her to provide you with the paperwork. Everytime one of my parents does the flex spending account, I have to sign a paper and put my tax id on it. Anytime they take reimbursements from that account, I need to make sure the amounts they are collecting are the same as I've been paid, sign and provide my id again.

Either way, she needs to provide you with the flex spending account paperwork.
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wdmmom 08:37 AM 03-26-2012
Originally Posted by Breezy:
I did. She said and I quote, "We need it to file the amount we paid in childcare for the year. We ask for it upfront to ensure the provider has one or a SSN and so they are aware we file."
I would tell her that she can contact your CPA and get confirmation that you in fact file taxes and have an EIN that will be provided at the end of the year.

I never have and never will provide my EIN upon enrollment for their benefit. At times I've given the final receipt at termination and my EIN is on it.
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Blackcat31 08:38 AM 03-26-2012
Originally Posted by Breezy:
I did. She said and I quote, "We need it to file the amount we paid in childcare for the year. We ask for it upfront to ensure the provider has one or a SSN and so they are aware we file."
I would respond with the following text; "Having an EIN has NO bearing on whether or not I file taxes nor does it have any bearing on the quality of care I provide. I will send you my EIN number at the end of the year as I do with all clients." and leave it at that. If she continues to bully you into giving it, I would tell her that if she is unhapy with your services, she is free to seek services elsewhere and then add that she is still not getting your EIN until everyone else does.

After that, anything she texts or says should be met with silence.
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Breezy 08:41 AM 03-26-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I would respond with the following text; "Having an EIN has NO bearing on whether or not I file taxes nor does it have any bearing on the quality of care I provide. I will send you my EIN number at the end of the year as I do with all clients." and leave it at that. If she continues to bully you into giving it, I would tell her that if she is unhapy with your services, she is free to seek services elsewhere and then add that she is still not getting your EIN until everyone else does.

After that, anything she texts or says should be met with silence.


Gracias! This is what I shall say.
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Breezy 09:10 AM 03-26-2012
She said, "I am a little concerned. We asked for it when we interviewed and you never said we had to wait. Please explain, thank you."

I said It was never discussed when I would provide it. It is still my personal information and I prefer not to give it out until it is needed for tax purposes. You said you prefer to have it up front to insure I have one and that I am aware you file. I am aware of the fact that you file and I do as well."
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Breezy 09:26 AM 03-26-2012
Now she says that If I had said that she had to wait until the end of the year they wouldnt have gone with me. She says it seems like things change from week to week and it makes her very uncomfortable.

I said I am sorry she feels that way and that we did not discuss a time frame in which she expected it. As far as I am concerned nothing has changed. Evidently there has been some miscommunication and for that I apologize as well. If you are unahppy with my care and/or polices you are welcome to find services elsewhere.
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Blackcat31 09:31 AM 03-26-2012
Originally Posted by Breezy:
She said, "I am a little concerned. We asked for it when we interviewed and you never said we had to wait. Please explain, thank you."

I said It was never discussed when I would provide it. It is still my personal information and I prefer not to give it out until it is needed for tax purposes. You said you prefer to have it up front to insure I have one and that I am aware you file. I am aware of the fact that you file and I do as well."
Originally Posted by Breezy:
Now she says that If I had said that she had to wait until the end of the year they wouldnt have gone with me. She says it seems like things change from week to week and it makes her very uncomfortable.

I said I am sorry she feels that way and that we did not discuss a time frame in which she expected it. As far as I am concerned nothing has changed. Evidently there has been some miscommunication and for that I apologize as well. If you are unahppy with my care and/or polices you are welcome to find services elsewhere.
good job sticking with your policies!!
If she isn't happy with you and whatever miscommunication she didn't hear or didn't specifically ask about during the interview and now feels the need to seek services elsewhere, I'd smile and wave as she goes.....sounds like she would be too high maintenance for me.

If she would actually leave because of that, I'd be glad to not have to deal with whatever other issues were to follow.
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Kim 09:33 AM 03-26-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
The parents I have that use flex spending bring me the flex spending form to fill out and sign so I know exactly why I am providing the info they are asking for.

Why don't you just straight up ask her why it is she needs your EIN now?
My flex families can do either one- have me fill out the form or I can give them a receipt. I just prefer to do receipts- it's easier for me.

Originally Posted by Breezy:
Now she says that If I had said that she had to wait until the end of the year they wouldnt have gone with me. She says it seems like things change from week to week and it makes her very uncomfortable.

I said I am sorry she feels that way and that we did not discuss a time frame in which she expected it. As far as I am concerned nothing has changed. Evidently there has been some miscommunication and for that I apologize as well. If you are unahppy with my care and/or polices you are welcome to find services elsewhere.
I think you need to part ways. It doesn't sound like this family is a good fit. It's strange that she is being so pushy about needing your EIN number.
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Breezy 09:40 AM 03-26-2012
She stated she is going to give notice.
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wdmmom 09:43 AM 03-26-2012
Originally Posted by Breezy:
She stated she is going to give notice.
Did you work for her at all in 2011??? If so, she'd already have it.

In any event, fill out her final tax receipt for 2012 and give it to her on the child's last day. Be sure to tell her, "it's right there!" while you are smiling.
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Blackcat31 09:45 AM 03-26-2012
It is always hard to lose a client but I would rather be one kid down than put up with a needy, non-trusting, over bearing parent.

Either way, count your blessings....who knows what she would have asked for next.

Sending you good wishes/vibes to fill the space as soon as possible!
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Breezy 09:45 AM 03-26-2012
Originally Posted by wdmmom:
Did you work for her at all in 2011??? If so, she'd already have it.

In any event, fill out her final tax receipt for 2012 and give it to her on the child's last day. Be sure to tell her, "it's right there!" while you are smiling.
Jan 24th 2012 was her first day. So nope!
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Breezy 09:47 AM 03-26-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
It is always hard to lose a client but I would rather be one kid down than put up with a needy, non-trusting, over bearing parent.

Either way, count your blessings....who knows what she would have asked for next.

Sending you good wishes/vibes to fill the space as soon as possible!
DH said that this new PT job and my PT DCG are plenty income so no hurry finding a different child. Which means no more waking up at 4:45 every day and lots more time with my DS! Silver lining Plus, DHs car will be paid off in May and he will sew on the next rank so thats an extra $800 a month
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SunshineMama 09:52 AM 03-26-2012
Sounds like a blessing in disguise!
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