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  #1  
Old 01-14-2010, 10:16 AM
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Default More State Issues with Fence Requirements

So I complained earlier because the state is requiring I have a fence put up in my front yard. As never been an issue before but now there is a new registrar and all of a sudden there are issues. Also, my neighbor down the road from me does child care and it has never been an issue for her. She doesn't need a fence, why should I. she has a different registrar though.

Anyways, I have to go to court to get a permit from town, buy the products and ect. It has taken a month and a half to do this. Today they come out to "inspect" the fence and There is like 2 ft between the edge of the fence and the neighbors lot line so it fails. Are you kidding me. You are not allowed to put things within 2 ft of your neighbors lot line. This is getting rediculous. Then.... my neighbors garbage blew over into my property and he tells me it needs to be cleaned up before the kids can play outside. First off, no ****. Second, it's going to have to wait until after business hours. How can I clean it up and watch the children? Duh. The neighbor is not home so I really can't call them to come get their garbage.

It just seems they are out to get me. I provide quality care and have never had an issue, complaint or anything.
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Old 01-14-2010, 11:29 AM
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Then.... my neighbors garbage blew over into my property and he tells me it needs to be cleaned up before the kids can play outside. First off, no ****. Second, it's going to have to wait until after business hours. How can I clean it up and watch the children? Duh. The neighbor is not home so I really can't call them to come get their garbage.
I think I would have had a hard time keeping those thoughts in my head and not letting them come out my mouth. Sorry to hear about all the problems. What do you have to do with the fence now that it failed?
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Old 01-14-2010, 11:57 AM
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Oh, I had a hard time keeping the thoughts to myself but I don't want them getting an ego trip and making it even more difficult. So, I have to spend more money while they keep me from getting my lisence and making any darn money.

I have to go purchase another 2 ft to cover the gap but according to zoning, that will probably require another court hearing and another month and a half wait.
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Old 01-14-2010, 12:14 PM
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You said another daycare in your neighborhood is not required fencing, perhaps because of a different licensor on her case? That's a problem, as state stautes regarding daycares dictate when fencing is required, usually having to do with proximity to high traffic roads, railroads, or water. Those statutes should be applied fairly to all. Being married to a cop, I'm a real stickler for detail, rules & regs- but they need to be applied evenly. Sorry to hear you are having issues. Does your neighbor have fencing that you didn't attach to (allowing for property line issues) resulting in the gap? Perhaps rearranging the yard, with a storage shed or something covering that gap to prevent kids from leaving would be good enough for your licensor without having to redo the fenceline?
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Old 01-14-2010, 12:37 PM
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I am a stickler on the rules as well and there is nothing in the regulations that state there has to be a fence. She is going by a regulation that states the children have to have safe outside play area. She is expanding that to what she wants. I tried to go over her head and speak to the supervisor but the supervisor said she thought it was a good idea. I don't care what her "thoughts" are. That is unethical. I would also need a permit for a shed. I thought about a bush, but I would never get it into the ground this time of year.
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  #6  
Old 01-14-2010, 11:58 PM
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Oh, I had a hard time keeping the thoughts to myself but I don't want them getting an ego trip and making it even more difficult. So, I have to spend more money while they keep me from getting my lisence and making any darn money.

I have to go purchase another 2 ft to cover the gap but according to zoning, that will probably require another court hearing and another month and a half wait.
Call your county commissioner and ask them that since trying to earn a living is impossible here, where do you need to go to get on welfare?

We got the runaround with licensing for a while, excuses, delays, feet dragging, "emergencies", repeated canceled inspections, etc.

Go up and above the inspector and see if there is some logic present in a supervisor.

As far as the fence goes....I've raised livestock and seen kids in action, if there's a gap in the fence, it's the first thing they head for and BAM they're gone. Happens every time. I can understand the need for a continuous fence....a 2' gap kinda makes it pointless to have a fence.

As far as the hearing and all that rigamarole, if you've already had your inspection, just put it up and feign ignorance. It's easier to ask forgiveness than permission.
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Old 01-15-2010, 11:38 AM
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Here a fence is at the discretion of the licensor. My neighbor did daycare and needed a fence, but I did not. We are on a circle and her house was on the corner so she needed a fence due to easier access to the street.

That said, we eventually put up a fence anyway because it is so much easier.
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  #8  
Old 01-15-2010, 11:42 AM
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I guess I don't understand why there's a 2 foot gap? I understand why you can't put things 2 foot from your neighbors line, but what is the fence up too? Is there a fence that is your neighbors? Why did you not make the fence run (2 foot from the line) along the line to the end of your yard?

I guess I don't understand.

And yes a child would just try to get right out. My son would in a heart beat!
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  #9  
Old 01-15-2010, 08:03 PM
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The fence goes along my front yard. It begins 2 ft from my neighbors property were there is a bush on the neighbors property and runs along the front yard to the driveway. 100ft. long. If it was regulation that was written some where fine, it's the law. But this is just some old bag that wants to challenge everything I do.

Yes, a child will get through a gap but.... what is from stopping him from going into my neighbors yard to walk around the fence. This is why I think she is being rediculous. Just because it goes to the end of my property line doesn't mean the child still can't go around it.

So, here is what it looks like
B - bush
F - Fence
D - Driveway


B FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF DDDDDDDD
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  #10  
Old 01-16-2010, 05:53 AM
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I know here in Indiana (or at least I was told) you have to have a fenced in yard to be licensed.

But to me fenced in yard means a fence all the way around the play area. So that the child can not just walk right out. It should go from your house, to the end of the play area, over and then back to your house, if your house is the start of their play area, otherwise pretty much making a square with the fence in your yard.

Also, so sickos can't just get in! And like someone else posted before some stray dog running wild.

I have two gates in my yard. One has a child latch, which is hard for adults to even use and the other, at the back of the yard has a carabiner clip, turn to the outside, so that the little ones can't open the gate.

Yeah, kids are smart...that's the problem...too smart. My DS would walk out just because you told him not too.
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Old 01-16-2010, 09:44 AM
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I would think 'fenced in' means a fence all the way around the area, like a square, with a gate for entry.
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Old 01-16-2010, 10:09 AM
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GBCC, where are you located?
Here in Ca. you have to have a fenced in play space outdoors. BUT, it doesn't have to be the front yard. My back yard is fenced, my front yard is not. But, defintely a completley fenced space is and should be required, for EVERY fcch....as a safety rule, it's common sense.
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  #13  
Old 01-16-2010, 05:52 PM
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I am in NY and here there are no specific regulations to a fence. I only know of one provider in this area that has a fence, but by her own choice. And yes, you would think she would require it to go all the way around, but no... she just said it has to be accross my front yard to the driveway. See why this is not making sence? There is a provider at the end of my road that lives on the intersection corner, no fence. Another lady 5 homes down, no fence. I'm not angry that I need a fence. I am angry because I am being targetted and there are no regulations to support it.
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  #14  
Old 01-16-2010, 06:18 PM
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The county in which I live it's up to the discretion of the licensor. We live on a county highway where the speed limit is 55mph. As of now, we are not required to have a fence. We have 20 acres of land, the house is quite a distance from the road, and the play area is behind that (even further from the road). The only children who come anywhere near the road are the school aged kids getting on/off the bus. Our licensor lives out even more rural than we are and she understands the area.

We have a piece of yard we'd like to fence in eventually, but we haven't gotten that far yet. It's not been quite a year since I got my license.
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Old 01-16-2010, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by gbcc View Post
I am in NY and here there are no specific regulations to a fence. I only know of one provider in this area that has a fence, but by her own choice. And yes, you would think she would require it to go all the way around, but no... she just said it has to be accross my front yard to the driveway. See why this is not making sence? There is a provider at the end of my road that lives on the intersection corner, no fence. Another lady 5 homes down, no fence. I'm not angry that I need a fence. I am angry because I am being targetted and there are no regulations to support it.
Then I think I would be asking these questions to the lady who told you, you needed the fence. Ask her why others don't need it.
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Old 01-16-2010, 07:36 PM
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Oh, trust me I have. She pulls the trump card and tells me "because I control if you get your license or not and I think you need one." I'd love to get a return call from the supervisor. She even admitted to me there is no regulation and she just feels I should have one. I wish she would retire or I could change to one of the other registrars who don't have it out for me. I have heard others complain about the state but I can't believe how rediculous they really are.

Last edited by Michael; 01-16-2010 at 08:24 PM.
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  #17  
Old 01-17-2010, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by gbcc View Post
The fence goes along my front yard. It begins 2 ft from my neighbors property were there is a bush on the neighbors property and runs along the front yard to the driveway. 100ft. long. If it was regulation that was written some where fine, it's the law. But this is just some old bag that wants to challenge everything I do.

Yes, a child will get through a gap but.... what is from stopping him from going into my neighbors yard to walk around the fence. This is why I think she is being rediculous. Just because it goes to the end of my property line doesn't mean the child still can't go around it.

So, here is what it looks like
B - bush
F - Fence
D - Driveway


B FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF DDDDDDDD
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbcc View Post
I am in NY and here there are no specific regulations to a fence. I only know of one provider in this area that has a fence, but by her own choice. And yes, you would think she would require it to go all the way around, but no... she just said it has to be accross my front yard to the driveway. See why this is not making sence? There is a provider at the end of my road that lives on the intersection corner, no fence. Another lady 5 homes down, no fence. I'm not angry that I need a fence. I am angry because I am being targetted and there are no regulations to support it.
Without the fence being a complete enclosure, the fence is worthless.

Time to play the game by her rules.

Get in touch with her supervisor....preferably someone who is above her, but in an elected position (really dumb for them to ignore voter). Bring it to their attention that you're concerned about the fact that this woman is incompetent, she thinks that a fence across the front of the yard will stop kids from entering the street, but the fence is not an enclosure. Be sure to bring up your concern about her inability to grasp this concept, and how dangerous this could be for children.

If you can't get a return call, make a personal visit. It's much harder to blow someone off or ignore them in person. Had that same problem with a county atty once, would never return calls and he was always "busy" or "in court" or "in a meeting".....finally, I got sick of getting the brush off, so I packed a lunch and camped in his office all day long. After 3 hours, he finally managed to "find time" to discuss the matter with me in person.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gbcc View Post
Oh, trust me I have. She pulls the trump card and tells me "because I control if you get your license or not and I think you need one." I'd love to get a return call from the supervisor. She even admitted to me there is no regulation and she just feels I should have one. I wish she would retire or I could change to one of the other registrars who don't have it out for me. I have heard others complain about the state but I can't believe how rediculous they really are.
Call the supervisor morning, noon and afternoon, every day of the week. Eventually, they'll get so sick and tired of you flooding them with voice mails, they'll actually call you back. I know it sounds weird, but being annoying works.
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Old 01-18-2010, 02:08 PM
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Talking Fencing

In PA it says we have to have a fenced yard. My property is 9,050 sq ft. To exspensive to enclose and I do not want to because I enjoy my openess and the kids from the neighborhood all like to play in my lat. They would spend so much time climbing the fence to chase balls or frizbies.
When the state was in in Nov she told me I just have to have a fence across the front of my property so the kids can not run into the street. I questioned her & she said with the 2 out of 3 neighbors haveing fences I do not need them back there. She approved my putting 10 of my little tikes gate pieces conected when needed. I was so happy she was willig to work with me. Now if the township was as nice, lol.
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Old 01-19-2010, 06:55 AM
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That is nice she was willing to work with you. The state wont even budge for me. They would not tell me what kind of fence, how tall or anything. I didn't want to go buy a fence for hundreds of dollars and spend all my time putting it in just for this witch to tell me she would not approve it. From what I understand, the state lady my neighbor works with is very pleasant and helpful.
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Old 01-19-2010, 08:23 AM
GretasLittleFriends GretasLittleFriends is offline
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Since the state lady your neighbor works for is very pleasant, have you tried contacting her for advice? I know it's not "her job" to help you, as you're not part of her case load, but she may have some inside information to help you out. Just a thought.
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Old 01-19-2010, 09:30 AM
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Since the state lady your neighbor works for is very pleasant, have you tried contacting her for advice? I know it's not "her job" to help you, as you're not part of her case load, but she may have some inside information to help you out. Just a thought.
Yes, I did call her. She was very nice and very applogetic but policy prohibits them from over stepping boundries on a co-workers case load. She was nice about it and explained why she couldn't help me. I respect that.
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Old 01-19-2010, 01:47 PM
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I guess I would suck it up and put in the fence. It will solve the problem, make you and your parents feel safer, and since no one else has one, be a selling point for your daycare. I know it costs, but a fight w/ the licensor over something like this when, in most places a completely fenced and gated play area is accepted practice and often required, is asking for trouble in other areas down the road. You aren't going to get her fired, even if its personal because she hates you- she's union and asking for a decent fence at a daycare will not be construed as unreasonable.
On the bright side, you could get the commissioners to try to make it a regulation so everyone has to have one instead of up to the discretion of a single employee. If its required for licensing you can get state grants for it.
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Old 01-20-2010, 12:54 AM
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That is nice she was willing to work with you. The state wont even budge for me. They would not tell me what kind of fence, how tall or anything. I didn't want to go buy a fence for hundreds of dollars and spend all my time putting it in just for this witch to tell me she would not approve it. From what I understand, the state lady my neighbor works with is very pleasant and helpful.
If they can't come forth with a fence spec and give it to you, then they cannot say that the fence does not meet their specs, since they have no specs.

See what I'm saying?

I'd seriously be making it my #1 goal to see this lady in the unemployment line.

Sounds like she's got a bad case of.............

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Old 01-20-2010, 07:25 AM
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Yes, you are absolutely right. And she used to be a provieder for 12 years before applying for this state position. You would think of all people she would understand!

She is like the cop that only became a cop because of daily wedgies and swirlies in school!
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Old 01-21-2011, 09:22 AM
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Angry Fence your yard in

I live in NY and I am a neighbor of a daycare provider with no fence on a busy road I came across this site after witnessing the children sliding down a snow bank into the road ??????Is this for real ??? Put your fence up lady..or someone like me will someday will call on someone like you...signed the neighbor ...
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Old 01-21-2011, 11:12 AM
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There is a provider at the end of my road that lives on the intersection corner, no fence. Another lady 5 homes down, no fence. I'm not angry that I need a fence. I am angry because I am being targetted and there are no regulations to support it.
You say that you have no regulations about fencing and so there should be no reason why you should have to build a fence if that is the case.

I extremely recommend that you call your licensing office right away and ask for your licensor's e-mail address and her supervisor's. Write her an e-mail and CC it to her supervisor. Ask for the regulation in writing where it states that you must have a fence, the part about it being 2 feet from the neighbor's property line and ask why it is required for you to have one and not other daycare provider's in your area. Don't tell them which daycare's in your area don't have them only that you've spoken to other family childcare's in your neighborhood and they aren't required to have them. Ask them to communicate with you by e-mail only or in writing by mail via certified mail. Trust me, if your licensor has his/her head up his/her butt and is only giving you a hard time, asking for this in writing could loosen them up.

I had an issue here myself not too long ago about me having a swing. In CA there are regulations against having walkers, excersaucers and bouncers but not baby swings. I had a licensor tell me that baby swings were against regulations and that I would be fined if I had one. I asked her for the regulation where it said it and she gave me the run around and to make a long story short sort of implied that she could make my life difficult. I wrote her an e-mail which logged all of our conversations and asked her again to give me the regulation in writing. She called me that same day very annoyed and again responded that it was regulation. I again told her to send me an e-mail with the regulation in writing and where I could look it up. I told her that I wanted to have in writing. She then faltered and then told me that it wasn't an official regulation and that it was "frowned upon". So then I asked her to make things clear that if I did have a swing that since there was no regulation against it that I could not be fined. She didn't say a word. She did go on to say that a baby could only be in a swing when the baby was awake, not when they were sleeping. I asked her to write me an e-mail so that I could have it in writing which she never did so I wrote her an e-mail paraphrasing our conversation. The next time I had a licensor come in for an inspection (our inspections are always surprise visits and hardly ever the same person) I asked about the regulation and what the other licensor said and all I got was a "Hmm".

Sorry to make it so long but I just wanted to show you that if you document everything and then bring it to their attention and ask for it in writing they start to get nervous because you are asking for policy that they are quoting and enforcing that may not even exist. This could lead to a lawsuit so they may back off rather than getting into trouble. Or maybe there is a regulation but at least they can give it to you (make sure they tell you where you can look it up as well) so that you can see the full reg for yourself so you know what you have to do. I think it's bull-honkey that they told you to have a fence and now that there's a problem with how close it is to your neighbors property line when there are others in your area that don't have a fence. If you do need a fence then they should have disclosed to you that there was a limit as to how close it could be to your neighbors property. Hearing things like this gets me all worked up .

Don't let them strong-arm and bully you. If they make it harder for you to get your license for defending yourself that's an even bigger lawsuit for retaliation.
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Old 01-21-2011, 11:23 AM
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I live in NY and I am a neighbor of a daycare provider with no fence on a busy road I came across this site after witnessing the children sliding down a snow bank into the road ??????Is this for real ??? Put your fence up lady..or someone like me will someday will call on someone like you...signed the neighbor ...
I don't typically respond to unregistered guests but I will comment here. The DC provider in this case was deffinetely in the wrong and you should have reported this incident to your local licensing office so shame on you if you didn't and good for you if you did.

If there is no regulation against having a fence and there is proper supervision there should be no problem. I live in CA and this is what my regulations say about having a fence:

"(6) Outdoor play areas shall be either fenced, or outdoor play areas shall be supervised by the licensee or care giver."

I have a back yard that is fenced in but I sometimes take the littles outside to play and run around in the front area and that is not fenced in and I have never had an issue like this one. Do I do it often? No. Do I do it on days that I am full and have many very young children? No. Do I do it on days that I feel that I cannot be in complete control? No. Are the kids safe when I take them into the un-fenced front yard? Yes, because I am aupervising them properly and do not let them get anywhere near the street.
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Old 01-22-2011, 01:20 PM
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Let it go. The regulator is within her bounds. If you have more than one child to supervise, you have too many to keep safe in a front yard that is not enclosed.

You said you have a fenced in back yard. Why do you need to take your little ones out to the front to play? If it is simply a matter of segregating them from older, rougher kids, perhaps taking the fence you put up in the front and using it to divide the back might not be a bad idea. If it is a matter of space, then I think the idea of enclosing your front yard is the best one suggested.
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Old 07-15-2012, 06:44 PM
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Why don't any of you think about your neighbors rights or concerns in this matter ? I moved into a house that had fencing almost from front to rear of my property and as soon as I moved in my neighbors started complaining about my fences , some of it needed repair and some fell down and I left them down . Now one neighbor says they have their license and they watch a few kids randomly , while their own kid wanders the area freely at seven yrs old , recently they took down their fence that separated my backyard from theirs and set up a swingset adjacent to my property line . I know that they are just kids but when I was their age I was always curious about what the neighbors had in their back yard . So you people who think that someone is unreasonable by wanting a fence put up should put yourselves in your neighbors shoes for a minute .
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Old 07-16-2012, 07:01 AM
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I completely understand about the power-tripping egos of some licensing folks.

However, I think you were rather shortsighted by investing in 100' of fence that would not keep in a child. I wouldn't pass the fence either. If I was an inspector, it would appear to be a doing half a job & a waste of my time to come out to inspect something so obviously not was to requirements (the expectation being a fence to actually contain the children). Coming from the licensing angle, I can only imagine that it seems that you are going to continue being a "problem" to keep an eye out for.

I wouldn't have put that much money in a fence that was worthless in its intent. Our city doesn't allow a fence w/in 12" of another property, so kinda the same thing where you can't butt up to your neighbor's fence. Enclose the play area and be done with it. OR find if it is possible to put up and take down daily a temporary fence or structure for that corner, or see if you can get a permit for the shed.

At this point, I think you are ticked off, and being making it seem more impossible & dramatic than it really is. I get it, I would want to antagonize the person making things difficult as well. i cannot see the licensor backing down at this point...you are now completely engaged in a battle of the wills. Good luck.
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Old 07-16-2012, 11:33 AM
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I live in NY and am required to have a fence because my home is within 100 yards of a body of water. (I would fence it anyway, regardless) there is someone with a pool adjacent to my property. So I would ask your registrar for the specific reason (my registrar is awesome and gives me the regulation whenever she wants me to make an adjustment). My fence needed to be directly next to my home (no gaps). I had to have a city permit ($50) and we paid for the materials and did the installation ourselves (around $2,000) my registrar also didn't want me to put a gate on it, but the new registrar does because I use it as my secondary egress. I agree in retrospect because she asked how I would get the children out of the backyard to be seen by emergency responders (what I am legally obligated to do). So although it doesn't fall directly in a regulation, it COULD become an issue.
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Old 07-16-2012, 12:13 PM
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This thread was from 2 and half years ago. It was bumped up from, surprise!, an unregistered post.
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