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  #1  
Old 11-12-2010, 01:52 PM
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Default Do Your Daycare Kids Act Out at Pickup?

I am lucky enough to care for the best little group of children...honestly, they are all so well-behaved all day long. But ALL of the kids I have ever watched act completely horrible the minute their mom or dad arrives to pick them up...having tantrums, throwing things, you name it. It's like someone flicked a switch. I don't understand the psychology of this, but someone told me once that it's as if they are letting mom and dad have it for being gone all day. But it almost feels manipulative too, because I think they know that I'm not going to really correct them with their parent here. It is so hard for the parents and I cannot think of a way to fix this. I just wondered if anyone else experiences this phenomena!
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Old 11-12-2010, 02:04 PM
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I guess that is where I'm different. If my kids acted out at pickup, I "would" correct them. They are still in my home, in my care until they step out that door on the way to the car, and I shut the door.

All of mine are babie, but one, so I don't have any of that yet, but yes, I would correct them.
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Old 11-12-2010, 02:07 PM
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I was totally gonna post this same question!! I have a 3 yr old dcg who I've had since birth M-F and just recently she has become this crazy wild child I have NEVER seen before at pick up time. I have an entry way that is completely separated by a half door so she has no audience except parent picking up (and me) but she climbs the coat cubbies, jumps onto and off of the bench, pulls things out of other's baskets and basically turns into Sybill. Dcm just goes about her business and tries her best to get dcg shoes and coat on. I have tried saying something to both dcm and child, but nothing seems to phase this girl. We have even tried discussions the next morning, pep talks right before pick up to remind her of rules and she just goes crazy every day at pick up regardless. Lately I have been just walking away from entry room and leaving dcm to deal with her flailing wailing child on her own.
I also have an 18 month old who clings to me and cries and freaks out whenever I try to hand her over 1/2 door to dcm at pick up. I get that she loves being here, but sheesh! Pick ups are becoming crazy here!
I guess it beats screaming kids at drop off since they ALL come in eagerly...just seems as though NO ONE wants to leave lately!!
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Old 11-12-2010, 02:13 PM
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actually it's usually the moms and i working together to try to reel the child in. i just cannot understand why they all do this. i have a four year old girl who is an absolute angel and right when her mom shows up she starts acting so fresh to her mom and running out the door while the mom and i are trying to talk for a second. also i have a 2 year old who is fantastic all day, and has a total meltdown the minute mom arrives....throws herself on the floor and everything. this poor mom has to practically carry her out of here. it's so hard for the parents at the end of the day. and i don't mean to say that they're having a fit because they don't want to leave. it's just acting up for no distinct reason. i'd love to do something to fix this!
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Old 11-12-2010, 06:34 PM
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I'm glad you posted this. I have a 3 yr old dcg that becomes a different child once mom or dad come to pick up. She is happy, laughing all day. It doesn't matter who comes to pick up (mom and dad are split). She yells "No they are not here!" She cries. Tantrums. The mom is just over it and wants to go home. I think dad feels she was like that all day b/c she doesn't like it here. I try to tell him she was just having a great time! Uhhh
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Old 11-12-2010, 07:11 PM
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Ha, ha, um yes. One dcb age 2-1/2 does great all day and then as soon as his mom comes in he starts whining and crying like hes had a horrible time here. I finally said to his mom yesterday "he sure does get emotional around you, he doesnt act like that at all during the day". I mean it's unbelievable. She said "yeah, you should see him at home". No thanks, I dont care for all that drama.
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Old 11-12-2010, 08:32 PM
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Yes. Every single one. Not everyday, but they each have their moments. It's exactly like described....flipping a switch. Once I hand over, the parent takes over (or tries to anyway). The ONLY thing that helps the situation here is if I have the child READY with shoes, coat, bag on so they could just pick them up and go. This is not always possible with all kids as not all pickups occur at the same time everyday with some, but generally if they give me a heads up that they're on their way, the tantrums don't occur OR they quickly walk out and scream in the car instead.
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Old 11-13-2010, 04:05 AM
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Yep they all act different at pick up. I have one 2 year old boy who cries big loud sobbing crying when mom comes. I think it's more of a release than anything. I require him to do lots of stuff during the day and sometimes he doesn't like having to wait for help and such. He just wants to tell Mom all about the bad things that happened and doesn't have the words all the time. Lately it's been getting better because he's been using his words more. I usually verbally reprimand kids when they are acting out at the door because they are still in my house. This kid would get even louder if I did that though so I worked on giving him words. The other day he was going in and out of our crafting area and banging the door horribly so I told him to stop going back and forth. Mom came in a few minutes later and instead of the melt down he said Angelique forth no. Neither one of us knew what he meant right away but then I figured it out and told the whole thing to mom. He was so happy that we understood. I made sure to put in what he was feeling too in my explanation. He then followed up with "time out ducky" and so we talked about that as well. Then I talked about the wonderful things he did too. For the most part the parents are in charge of their kid at pick up but I put my foot down on some behaviors and help the parents gets out the door.
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Old 11-13-2010, 06:31 AM
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I really am very relieved to know it's not just me! If anyone comes up with anything that works to curtail this, please let me know. Oh, and I have also tried having the kids all ready to go with coat on/bag ready, etc., but that hasn't really helped too much. I've had kids pull OFF their coats and shoes while having that pick-up time meltdown...ugh!
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Old 11-13-2010, 10:32 AM
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...and what makes it all worse is the mom who has had a bad day at work and wants to spend 20 minutes unloading on you. meanwhile their precious little ones are jumping on the couch, climbing the toy shelves, and pulling the dogs tail.

ive gotten to the point where i am just really blunt with people. i'll cut them off and say "well, ok. have a great night" or something like that. i also stand in a way that blocks the kiddos from leaving the front door area and ripping the whole playroom apart again.

and these are the SA who do all this. you'd think by 7/8 yrs old they'd know better.
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Old 11-13-2010, 03:58 PM
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Some of my kids act out when mom/dad comes...and I do help the parent correct the behavior since they are still in my house, under my rules. When they walk out of the door - it's their problem to deal with
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Old 11-15-2010, 04:13 AM
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I call the dynamic of bad behavior at drop off and pick up "Changing of the Guard" behavior. It is seen primarily in children who are in charge of the relationship with their parents. It is seen in children who are more powerful than their parents and parents who want their child to be powerful/happy/special/ more than they want the child to have good public and interpersonal relationship. The parent does not want the child to cry so outbursts of obviously inappropriate behavior are acceptable to the parent as long as the child does them without crying and is happy. The harshest discipline used for these kids is "corporal coddling".

Changing of the guard behavior at drop off is when the child goes from being in power/control while in the care of his parents to the provider being in power/control while in the care of the provider. The child cries or acts out because they do not want to relinquish their control. They don't want the control to go to the provider so they delay the transfer of power by acting out.

They also want the provider to see that they are in control because arrivals and departures are the only opportunity the child has to make it clear to the provider that they are in control. As soon as the door closes behind the parent the child looses that really powerful position as their power supply has just backed up out the driveway.

At pick ups again the child realizes that once their power supply (parents) have arrived that they are back into power. They see that the parent again gives them the kingdom and you the provider aren't stopping them from taking over. They are used to the provider being the leader ALL day long so they KNOW something is terribly wrong when you all of a sudden stop leading.

All the kid sees is two adults who are not making him stop and demanding he behave properly in public. He has no choice to become the leader because the adults around him are not doing it. He loves to be the leader but unfortunately is ill equipped for the job as he is just a child. Children should NEVER lead adults. Children should NEVER lead themselves or other children. They are terribly inadaquate leaders. When they are allowed the job of leader the entire time they are in that role everything falls apart. Everyone is unhappy and nothing works out well.

The parent is often misbehaving at the drop off and pick up too. The parent knows when their child is behaving badly in public. They know how the adults around them looks when their child is acting up. They can feel the negative energy and exhasted energy from the adults around their child's public display of bad behavior. THEY KNOW THE PROVIDER HATES IT but they don't take over. They don't put a stop to it.

The parents often feel the provider works FOR them and because they are paying the provider that the provider should just have to DEAL with this witnessing of poor behavior. The parent doesn't care if it upsets you, your other day care kids, your kids. They are paying you and you better get to toleration quick or they will scoot on out your business.

The parent may have some other motivations for allowing it too. They may WANT the child to hang out at the day care before they go to work and after they are off of work because they are trying to get the kid off of their clock for as long as possible. There are a certain segment of parent population who allow misbehavior at drop off and pick up as a STALL technique to keep the child at day care longer. These are the ones that allow a wide breadth of time for their kid to be in care when they really only need nine hours. These parents will often pick providers with open hours so the parent can use time BEFORE work and AFTER work to be at the providers house with the kid because they don't want to be home with the kid by themselves any longer than they have to.



The provider is in a bad situation too. She doesn't like the changing of the guard behavior. She wants the child to behave as he does when SHE is leading him. She feels she can't discipline kids in front of their parent. She knows she wouldn't want someone disciplining HER kids in front of her so she sits back praying to Jesus that the parent put the kabosh on this and take over.

She also knows that it's a pretty touchy deal to start disciplining the kid especially at pick up time. She could offend the parent and the parent could pull the kid. She really really WANTS the kid to LEAVE so she can get on with her own family so she doesn't want to do ANYTHING to get prolong it.

So now you have the perfect storm. The child is being bombarded with badly behaving adults ... adults who are not being true to their feelings... adults who will not do WHATEVER it takes to show the child that the child can NEVER lead in their presence....

and a child who is BEGGING for calm stable minute to minute leadership

I don't have this dynamic in my day care because I do not EVER allow a child to lead in my home. I don't allow them to lead me or lead their parents. From the second the kid hits the inside of my house they are being led by ME. I don't leave the leadership up to the parents. I'm glad when I have ones that DO lead but I'm the leadingest leader no matter what.

IF a child is acting up at arrivals and departures despite my insistence that I be the leader then I institute the "Buh Bye Outside" program. This is where the parent says good bye to the child outside my door at drop off and does NOT come into the house. At pick up "I" say good bye to the child inside the house and send them out the door and the parent does NOT come in the house.

Both arrival and departure the child does not see the parent and I together. The parent brings the child to my door in the morning and says their goodbyes on my front step. They have as long as they want to say goodbye. They can spend an hour there if that's what they need. Once the parent knocks on my door then that is the signal that they are COMPLETELY DONE saying goodbye.

I open the door and just take the child over my threshold and shut the door very quickly. That makes the transition VERY short for the kid. This allows the parent to be the only adult tolerating the child's bad behavior. This takes away the audience for the child and parents bad behavior. This takes away the element of "you have to put up with my prince/princesses behavior because I am the boss of you and I pay you".

At departure the parent is to call me within five minutes of the arrival and we do the same thing in reverse. As soon as the parent arrives on my doorstep I open it up and assist the kid back over the threshold and quickly shut my door.

Rinse and repeat.

It usually takes about three days of the buh bye outside program to get both the parent and child to behave. By the third day the parent is bored out of their mind standing outside with their kid. The kid realizes that there isn't an audience for his behavior and the message that ANY time he is around the provider the provider is in charge is not broken or challenged.

I can always tell when we are ready to start integrating them back into the house by the decrease in the kids fit. I watch them thru the window. When the kid just comes and stands at my doorway looking at the door then I know it's time to start letting them EASE their way back into saying goodbye inside the house.

I start by allowing it at drop off but if the child causes any chaos they go back to saying good bye outside immediately. If drop off goes well for a few days then we try the inside departure. The slightest hint that the kid is going to act up and we go back to just donig the departure outside.

It's very important for the provider to take charge of the entire time the child is in your home. If you allow the parents to be the leader you will very often find that they won't do it. There are a LOT of parents who feel that their child should lead because they are special and they are theirs. It is becoming increasingly difficult to find parents who believe that they should always lead and that it is an embarrasment and a shame for their child to behave poorly around the day care.

It is an embarrasment and a shame that kids behave badly in public. We are their public. The only way to get the whole cycle to stop in my experience is to completely take charge of the entire thing. I don't allow ANY misbehavior when they are in my home. I don't hesitate in ANY way to discipline the children when they are under my roof. I don't give a flip whether their parents are here or not. The children NEVER see my behavior change when their parents arrive. I don't act any different to the child when the parent is here. I'm just as strict with my expectations whether the parent is there or not.

I don't allow parents to misbehave in my house. If they do not cease control of their kid and despite my interjections the kids are still acting up then they are not allowed the PRIVLEDGE of doing arrivals and departures inside my home. Once the parent and child looses the privledge of arrivals and departures inside they very quickly get bored of the rediculous behavior and start behaviing... BOTH the parent and the child start behaving.

Bottom line is stop allow the kid and the parent to misbehave on your properly. Your house your rulses for EVERYBODY. Be the leader the child and parent need you to be. Be the leader every second of the time you have them in your home.

When you lead they will follow and peace will be yours.
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Old 11-15-2010, 04:31 AM
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Nan - I like a lot of what you said.
I have the problem of ALL of the kids acting up whenever ANYONE enters the home.
Now - seeing how it is NOT an option to completely stop people from entering my home (it just isn't - take me at my word) what would you suggest I do to keep the group from acting up and getting really rambunctious while I'm taking the five minutes that I need to have a conversation?
I'm very curious to hear your thoughts on this because I am at my wits end to be honest.

I also have a problem that when my afterschool kids get here the energy level of the entire group sky rockets and I almost lose control of everything.
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Old 11-15-2010, 04:51 AM
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ditto with what everyone has said....seems like the lil demons come out at pickups LOL drives me insane. i use to have a kid who would throw toys when mom came in...he has since been gone! i normally have each kid ready w/shoes and artwork,etc ready to go. i also will busy myself with something so the parents know i'm busy....if we have to talk about something i will text or call after they leave. Nan, you have some wonder thoughts but sadly i cant do alot of it. just the way my home is layed out.
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Old 11-15-2010, 05:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DancingQueen View Post
Nan - I like a lot of what you said.
I have the problem of ALL of the kids acting up whenever ANYONE enters the home.
Now - seeing how it is NOT an option to completely stop people from entering my home (it just isn't - take me at my word) what would you suggest I do to keep the group from acting up and getting really rambunctious while I'm taking the five minutes that I need to have a conversation?
I'm very curious to hear your thoughts on this because I am at my wits end to be honest.

I also have a problem that when my afterschool kids get here the energy level of the entire group sky rockets and I almost lose control of everything.
I can't help you with what happens when the school aged kids are there. I don't care for school aged kids because I don't like them.

I don't do arrivals and departures in the play room so I don't have any advice on that either. I think it's best to physically separate the children from the parents as much as you possibly can.
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Old 12-04-2010, 07:14 PM
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NannyDe: is your "Buh Bye Outside" program written somewhere in your contract? I need it! I know having such a policy will totally p*%s off a few of my parents but I can see how that will correct the problem.....
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Old 12-05-2010, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DancingQueen View Post
Nan - I like a lot of what you said.
I have the problem of ALL of the kids acting up whenever ANYONE enters the home.
Now - seeing how it is NOT an option to completely stop people from entering my home (it just isn't - take me at my word) what would you suggest I do to keep the group from acting up and getting really rambunctious while I'm taking the five minutes that I need to have a conversation?
I'm very curious to hear your thoughts on this because I am at my wits end to be honest.

I also have a problem that when my afterschool kids get here the energy level of the entire group sky rockets and I almost lose control of everything.
When my kids start getting too rambunctious because someone is here I have them all sit down. They can still talk and play with the toys in their hands but they all need to be on their butt. I remind them of proper behavior then turn my attention to the person whom I need to have a conversation with. I would do the same thing with the SA kids come. I'd have everyone sit including the SAs and do a welcome back circle time or something to integrate proper behaviors and allow everyone to say hi.
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Old 12-06-2010, 09:47 AM
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I have a couple daycare kids that totally pull a "Sybil" when their parents arrive to pick them up. As long as I make sure that the child can still see me, then I am almost always able to keep the child in check by giving "the look" and then the child knows that I mean business. I want the children and parents to be out in the least amount of time possible, and if the child is freaking out and arguing with the parents or trying to run off, then that can't happen. I just make sure that the child has eye contact with me and I remind the child that it's time to go.
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Old 12-06-2010, 10:33 AM
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I do a lot like KidKair for both my early childhood group and my school agers.
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Old 12-06-2010, 11:46 AM
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I love that but my 18-28 months old won't sit when I tell them to - and I'd spend the next 10 minutes continually putting them back into a sitting position.
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I remind them of proper behavior then turn my attention to the person whom I need to have a conversation with.
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Old 12-06-2010, 11:55 AM
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I'd put them in separate playpens then. My kids learn quickly to do as I instruct them to do. It's helpful that I do following directions stuff with them daily and the younger ones follow their peers. I've had a 10 month old be able to sit when I asked everyone to sit down. Also there is no way I would have them sit there for 10 minutes. I would say three would be my max. Generally after a minute I pause my conversation and let the kids return to free play if they were all sitting nicely. Then I continue my conversation and the kids remember to be quiet.
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Old 12-06-2010, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by jenh171 View Post
I am lucky enough to care for the best little group of children...honestly, they are all so well-behaved all day long. But ALL of the kids I have ever watched act completely horrible the minute their mom or dad arrives to pick them up...having tantrums, throwing things, you name it. It's like someone flicked a switch. I don't understand the psychology of this, but someone told me once that it's as if they are letting mom and dad have it for being gone all day. But it almost feels manipulative too, because I think they know that I'm not going to really correct them with their parent here. It is so hard for the parents and I cannot think of a way to fix this. I just wondered if anyone else experiences this phenomena!
I do correct the kids even when parents are here. They are still in my house! If parents are doing a good job of handling it, then I stay out of it, but if the parent is being wishy washy with discipline, I will step in. Also, we have a prize box. The kids all live for the prize box. They never let me forget it. So, they know they have to behave in order to choose something out of the prize box. I don't reward them with it until they have their shoes and coats on and they are ready to head out the door. I have even gone as far as take the prize back if mom/dad continue to visit and child acts up after getting their prize. I tell them I will hold on to it for them and they can try again tomorrow. Not sure what it is about, but most kids act out when parents come. Weird, right?
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:39 AM
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I read all your responses and I am so happy to hear it's not just me. I have a 2 yr old I watch and he is a devil when mommy picks him up. He knows not to walk in my home with shoes, but does it anyways. Mom just says oh no you shouldn't do that and continues talking. He goes crazy unpacking his bag, grabbing his sippy and dripping it all over the floor, opening and closing things, pulling on mom's clothes, grabbing things and throwing them on the floor. I give him the look and he just looks at mom and laughs.

She is a chatter box and constantly says at drop off and pick up times, oh we should go, because it is confusing you. Well use your own advice and do it please. She is not clueing in. She caters to him at home to much....if he doesn't want to eat his dinner, then she makes him something else to eat. He is clinging to his mom at drop off and crying, but she puts on the my poor baby face and picks him up again or has another goodbye. I like the idea of buh bye outside.

I will try it tonight for sure. I can't stand it when he does this. But my other dilema is during our day he isolates himself. He just stands in one spot and stares. He doesn't talk at all. He constantly breathes like he is going to cry when I ask him something or tell him to play. He will not do anything until I ask him too. Extremely frustrating. Especially when we are doing crafts or just playing around. He cries when he is pulled in. But when mom gets to the door he is sooooo hyper and chatty and smiles and getting into mischief. Huh? Don't get it all. It is getting to the point where I am not sure I even want him here anymore because of this silly behaviour.

My 2 yr old daughter doesn't even want to play with him anymore because of all the crying he does and just standing there. She is so polite to him and hugging him, but now she looks at him and says shhhh when he starts to do the crying breathing again. It happens all day long. He is delayed \i think. He is just over 2 and he doesn't run. He still walks like he is a year and the way he picks small things up. Speaking, nope, he screams his head off when we r going for walks. If he walks more than 2 minutes he pulls the stroller or drops to the ground crying. People walk by and all the say is ohhhhh look at that sad face, sorry but I am thinking oh yah that poor face , whatever, I don't want to see it anymore.

I have never thought of this before towards any of my daycare children. What is so wrong with this boy? The control thing sure fits into it as well from stories I hear from mom. It's only her he throws fits with. Hitting, biting, tantrums, screaming. Help, need some good advice.
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Old 11-01-2011, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by jenh171 View Post
I am lucky enough to care for the best little group of children...honestly, they are all so well-behaved all day long. But ALL of the kids I have ever watched act completely horrible the minute their mom or dad arrives to pick them up...having tantrums, throwing things, you name it. It's like someone flicked a switch. I don't understand the psychology of this, but someone told me once that it's as if they are letting mom and dad have it for being gone all day. But it almost feels manipulative too, because I think they know that I'm not going to really correct them with their parent here. It is so hard for the parents and I cannot think of a way to fix this. I just wondered if anyone else experiences this phenomena!
Yep. Yep. Yep. It's a switch. I see it here daily......well, not with ALL of them, but certain kids..... they are perfect little angels all day and mom walks in and I think 'huh? where did THIS child come from?''
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Old 11-01-2011, 01:55 PM
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not since the nannyde bye bye outside program...

New rule..
If ya wanna save the drama for your mama, gonna have to do it outside....
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Old 11-01-2011, 03:18 PM
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I am lucky enough to care for the best little group of children...honestly, they are all so well-behaved all day long. But ALL of the kids I have ever watched act completely horrible the minute their mom or dad arrives to pick them up...having tantrums, throwing things, you name it. It's like someone flicked a switch. I don't understand the psychology of this, but someone told me once that it's as if they are letting mom and dad have it for being gone all day. But it almost feels manipulative too, because I think they know that I'm not going to really correct them with their parent here. It is so hard for the parents and I cannot think of a way to fix this. I just wondered if anyone else experiences this phenomena!
Yup my DCB acts out not with me but with his parents. I do drop off and picks ups at the door but for example Mom will tell him to come inside he will tell her no it drives me crazy because he doesnt tell me no. In the afternoons at pick ups Mom likes to chat child will run for the street even thou he knows better, throw leaves on my porch after I swept it, touch my decorations outside even thou he knows better, Mom will say its time to go he will whine and say no even thou I know that he knows better because he doesnt do it when Mom isnt here Im tired of watching it and try to make pick ups and drop off quick without seeming rude.
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Old 11-03-2011, 09:32 AM
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Yes! everyday. I have a 2 y/o who throughs him self down on the floor almost every day right when mom walks in. Sometime he starts crying as if he is over come with emotion. Hes kinda high strung like that any ways so its hard. I do step in if there mis behaving b/c I kinda feel like if there still in my house there still my responcibility (in a way). I try to kinda hand each child off to there parents all ready to go with shoes on atleast. I have even held there hand all the way to the gate by the front door. It does take some training but with some time kids can learn to behave at pickups. I think it is manipulative behavior to a degree.
I have one girl (4 y/o) that grabs onto her moms clothes, jewlery, what ever she can grab every morning she comes. I have started steppinging in b/c its become a habit with her. This same girl is whinny at pickups, she usually leaves first out of the group (moms a teacher) and she wakes up real sleepy and whiny. What ages are your dc kids?
Maybe you need to post a notice about behavior at pickups and ask the parents to take there child by the hand to there cars.
Debbie
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Old 11-03-2011, 11:16 AM
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Gosh, I guess I don't think too "deeply" about it. I don't think there is any psycological reason as far as "power" and "control". I just think of it as the child can't control their excitement to see mom and dad, they're upset if you are doing something fun and they have to leave, they're deflating from the stimulation of daycare, and they want their parents attention and this "production" gets it for them. I remember doing this as a TEENAGER after spending the night at a friends house. I would come home and just be a BEAR to my parents. And my DD does the exact same thing when she comes home from a friends house.
If we are around snack time when they get picked up a simple, "want a cracker for the road?" usually gets them out quietly. If the parent is hanging around chatting and the kids are acting up I do correct them in front of the parent because it embarrasses them and kicks them into the "parent gear" so that they will start correcting them. If you let them jump on your couch while they are here then they will think you let them jump on it while they are gone. Kids always want attention...that's the bottom line.
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Old 11-03-2011, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by SandeeAR View Post
I guess that is where I'm different. If my kids acted out at pickup, I "would" correct them. They are still in my home, in my care until they step out that door on the way to the car, and I shut the door.

All of mine are babie, but one, so I don't have any of that yet, but yes, I would correct them.
I do too. I correct them until they are basically in their parents' car.

I have parents that very seriously let their 2-3-4 year old walk all over them. I don't have to stand for it. Most of the time, I honestly believe that the parents are actually grateful for my willingness to intervene.
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Old 03-21-2013, 12:04 AM
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so heres the thing my lil girl never had probs at pick up or drop off until i had to go out to sea for 3 weeks and lost our spot in her daycare so we instead use an inhome daycare and she throws the bigest fit ever at drop off clinging to me and crying her hart out, but as soon as i'm gone she calms down and plays with the other kids i know this because when i pick her up i'll watch her play and have fun through the door its just like a light switch the second she sees me full on waterworks assult happens and she acts as if she has been crying the entire time i was gone, now heres the tricky she does not do it in a actual daycare (one day our lady was sick so i called her old daycare and got a dropin rate for the day) NOT a SINGLE prob at drop off or pick up. but she acts the same way at her dads freaks out at drop off and pick up.
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Old 03-21-2013, 04:44 AM
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Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
I call the dynamic of bad behavior at drop off and pick up "Changing of the Guard" behavior. It is seen primarily in children who are in charge of the relationship with their parents. It is seen in children who are more powerful than their parents and parents who want their child to be powerful/happy/special/ more than they want the child to have good public and interpersonal relationship. The parent does not want the child to cry so outbursts of obviously inappropriate behavior are acceptable to the parent as long as the child does them without crying and is happy. The harshest discipline used for these kids is "corporal coddling".

Changing of the guard behavior at drop off is when the child goes from being in power/control while in the care of his parents to the provider being in power/control while in the care of the provider. The child cries or acts out because they do not want to relinquish their control. They don't want the control to go to the provider so they delay the transfer of power by acting out.

They also want the provider to see that they are in control because arrivals and departures are the only opportunity the child has to make it clear to the provider that they are in control. As soon as the door closes behind the parent the child looses that really powerful position as their power supply has just backed up out the driveway.

At pick ups again the child realizes that once their power supply (parents) have arrived that they are back into power. They see that the parent again gives them the kingdom and you the provider aren't stopping them from taking over. They are used to the provider being the leader ALL day long so they KNOW something is terribly wrong when you all of a sudden stop leading.

All the kid sees is two adults who are not making him stop and demanding he behave properly in public. He has no choice to become the leader because the adults around him are not doing it. He loves to be the leader but unfortunately is ill equipped for the job as he is just a child. Children should NEVER lead adults. Children should NEVER lead themselves or other children. They are terribly inadaquate leaders. When they are allowed the job of leader the entire time they are in that role everything falls apart. Everyone is unhappy and nothing works out well.

The parent is often misbehaving at the drop off and pick up too. The parent knows when their child is behaving badly in public. They know how the adults around them looks when their child is acting up. They can feel the negative energy and exhasted energy from the adults around their child's public display of bad behavior. THEY KNOW THE PROVIDER HATES IT but they don't take over. They don't put a stop to it.

The parents often feel the provider works FOR them and because they are paying the provider that the provider should just have to DEAL with this witnessing of poor behavior. The parent doesn't care if it upsets you, your other day care kids, your kids. They are paying you and you better get to toleration quick or they will scoot on out your business.

The parent may have some other motivations for allowing it too. They may WANT the child to hang out at the day care before they go to work and after they are off of work because they are trying to get the kid off of their clock for as long as possible. There are a certain segment of parent population who allow misbehavior at drop off and pick up as a STALL technique to keep the child at day care longer. These are the ones that allow a wide breadth of time for their kid to be in care when they really only need nine hours. These parents will often pick providers with open hours so the parent can use time BEFORE work and AFTER work to be at the providers house with the kid because they don't want to be home with the kid by themselves any longer than they have to.



The provider is in a bad situation too. She doesn't like the changing of the guard behavior. She wants the child to behave as he does when SHE is leading him. She feels she can't discipline kids in front of their parent. She knows she wouldn't want someone disciplining HER kids in front of her so she sits back praying to Jesus that the parent put the kabosh on this and take over.

She also knows that it's a pretty touchy deal to start disciplining the kid especially at pick up time. She could offend the parent and the parent could pull the kid. She really really WANTS the kid to LEAVE so she can get on with her own family so she doesn't want to do ANYTHING to get prolong it.

So now you have the perfect storm. The child is being bombarded with badly behaving adults ... adults who are not being true to their feelings... adults who will not do WHATEVER it takes to show the child that the child can NEVER lead in their presence....

and a child who is BEGGING for calm stable minute to minute leadership

I don't have this dynamic in my day care because I do not EVER allow a child to lead in my home. I don't allow them to lead me or lead their parents. From the second the kid hits the inside of my house they are being led by ME. I don't leave the leadership up to the parents. I'm glad when I have ones that DO lead but I'm the leadingest leader no matter what.

IF a child is acting up at arrivals and departures despite my insistence that I be the leader then I institute the "Buh Bye Outside" program. This is where the parent says good bye to the child outside my door at drop off and does NOT come into the house. At pick up "I" say good bye to the child inside the house and send them out the door and the parent does NOT come in the house.

Both arrival and departure the child does not see the parent and I together. The parent brings the child to my door in the morning and says their goodbyes on my front step. They have as long as they want to say goodbye. They can spend an hour there if that's what they need. Once the parent knocks on my door then that is the signal that they are COMPLETELY DONE saying goodbye.

I open the door and just take the child over my threshold and shut the door very quickly. That makes the transition VERY short for the kid. This allows the parent to be the only adult tolerating the child's bad behavior. This takes away the audience for the child and parents bad behavior. This takes away the element of "you have to put up with my prince/princesses behavior because I am the boss of you and I pay you".

At departure the parent is to call me within five minutes of the arrival and we do the same thing in reverse. As soon as the parent arrives on my doorstep I open it up and assist the kid back over the threshold and quickly shut my door.

Rinse and repeat.

It usually takes about three days of the buh bye outside program to get both the parent and child to behave. By the third day the parent is bored out of their mind standing outside with their kid. The kid realizes that there isn't an audience for his behavior and the message that ANY time he is around the provider the provider is in charge is not broken or challenged.

I can always tell when we are ready to start integrating them back into the house by the decrease in the kids fit. I watch them thru the window. When the kid just comes and stands at my doorway looking at the door then I know it's time to start letting them EASE their way back into saying goodbye inside the house.

I start by allowing it at drop off but if the child causes any chaos they go back to saying good bye outside immediately. If drop off goes well for a few days then we try the inside departure. The slightest hint that the kid is going to act up and we go back to just donig the departure outside.

It's very important for the provider to take charge of the entire time the child is in your home. If you allow the parents to be the leader you will very often find that they won't do it. There are a LOT of parents who feel that their child should lead because they are special and they are theirs. It is becoming increasingly difficult to find parents who believe that they should always lead and that it is an embarrasment and a shame for their child to behave poorly around the day care.

It is an embarrasment and a shame that kids behave badly in public. We are their public. The only way to get the whole cycle to stop in my experience is to completely take charge of the entire thing. I don't allow ANY misbehavior when they are in my home. I don't hesitate in ANY way to discipline the children when they are under my roof. I don't give a flip whether their parents are here or not. The children NEVER see my behavior change when their parents arrive. I don't act any different to the child when the parent is here. I'm just as strict with my expectations whether the parent is there or not.

I don't allow parents to misbehave in my house. If they do not cease control of their kid and despite my interjections the kids are still acting up then they are not allowed the PRIVLEDGE of doing arrivals and departures inside my home. Once the parent and child looses the privledge of arrivals and departures inside they very quickly get bored of the rediculous behavior and start behaviing... BOTH the parent and the child start behaving.

Bottom line is stop allow the kid and the parent to misbehave on your properly. Your house your rulses for EVERYBODY. Be the leader the child and parent need you to be. Be the leader every second of the time you have them in your home.

When you lead they will follow and peace will be yours.
Totally and completely agree. When a child is in daycare all day long and have rules which are different than what they have at home, they want to show the provider they can do all the things which are forbidden at the daycare, yet they can do with their parents. I don't think I've ever had a child who hasn't acted out in one way or another at (mostly) pickup time.
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Old 03-21-2013, 05:49 AM
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I don't have any that just act out, I used to have 1, but she was a hard kid here also.....I do have 1 very sweet almost 3 year old, that I know holds his emotions in all day, there are times I know he wants to cry but he just sucks it back, sometimes when his mom comes, he will drop himself down and start to cry while getting his coat, on and he'll get frustrated a little, and mom says when he gets home he usually goes to his room and cries for 5 minutes then comes back out ready to play, he is just the sweetest boy, I love him so much, him and his brother are awesome kids, its not like he acts out, he just starts getting rid of some of those emotions, he will let me hold hug and comfort him during the day, but I can always tell he wants his mommy.
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Old 03-21-2013, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by DancingQueen View Post
Nan - I like a lot of what you said.
I have the problem of ALL of the kids acting up whenever ANYONE enters the home.
Now - seeing how it is NOT an option to completely stop people from entering my home (it just isn't - take me at my word) what would you suggest I do to keep the group from acting up and getting really rambunctious while I'm taking the five minutes that I need to have a conversation?
I'm very curious to hear your thoughts on this because I am at my wits end to be honest.

I also have a problem that when my afterschool kids get here the energy level of the entire group sky rockets and I almost lose control of everything.
School age kids have to be strictly controlled. You need to sit them down and have a chat. Decide how you want your afternoon to go.
We do:
Arrival, hang up coats and sit down for snack 20 mins
If it is nice, send them outside for the remainder of the time
If not, have a craft/painting/legos or something they must do sitting at the table. I have several toys that only the older kids can use. Either the littles are gone at that time, or I give the older kids a safe place to use the "older kid" toys separate from the little ones.
Not sure how long you have them, but you cannot just let them come in and free play. You must remain strictly in control if you cannot give them an outdoor place to run wild. They have been cooped up all day at school and have a ton of energy that must be channeled.
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Old 03-21-2013, 06:35 AM
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School age kids have to be strictly controlled. You need to sit them down and have a chat. Decide how you want your afternoon to go.
We do:
Arrival, hang up coats and sit down for snack 20 mins
If it is nice, send them outside for the remainder of the time
If not, have a craft/painting/legos or something they must do sitting at the table. I have several toys that only the older kids can use. Either the littles are gone at that time, or I give the older kids a safe place to use the "older kid" toys separate from the little ones.
Not sure how long you have them, but you cannot just let them come in and free play. You must remain strictly in control if you cannot give them an outdoor place to run wild. They have been cooped up all day at school and have a ton of energy that must be channeled.
We aren't allowed to send them outside without an adult outside with them at all times AND that adult can not be an assistant. It HAS to be a co-provider or a substitute. A substitute has to be 21 years or older AND you can only use a substitute 28 hours per month.

It would take the entire salary of the school agers to cover the adult who has to be outside with them. A substitute is expensive.

I don't take school agers. They are too expensive and the pay is too small. They are too much work and cause too many issues with equipment, interpersonal issues, and parent/provider conflict. They also don't take a nap so they are out of the question.
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Old 03-21-2013, 06:38 AM
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i find my own kids are the worst at pick up. I can see a change in behavior and look at the clock and it is always 5pm when it starts! I wish they would "go home" at pick up time!
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Old 03-21-2013, 06:47 AM
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I was totally gonna post this same question!! I have a 3 yr old dcg who I've had since birth M-F and just recently she has become this crazy wild child I have NEVER seen before at pick up time. I have an entry way that is completely separated by a half door so she has no audience except parent picking up (and me) but she climbs the coat cubbies, jumps onto and off of the bench, pulls things out of other's baskets and basically turns into Sybill. Dcm just goes about her business and tries her best to get dcg shoes and coat on. I have tried saying something to both dcm and child, but nothing seems to phase this girl. We have even tried discussions the next morning, pep talks right before pick up to remind her of rules and she just goes crazy every day at pick up regardless. Lately I have been just walking away from entry room and leaving dcm to deal with her flailing wailing child on her own.
I also have an 18 month old who clings to me and cries and freaks out whenever I try to hand her over 1/2 door to dcm at pick up. I get that she loves being here, but sheesh! Pick ups are becoming crazy here!
I guess it beats screaming kids at drop off since they ALL come in eagerly...just seems as though NO ONE wants to leave lately!!
LOL!! This is an old thread so reading my post from back then is funny!

I know the info is still relevant but I no longer have this issue (with ay of my DCK's) and I still have this 3 yr old and the 18 month old I mentioned above.

Of course they are older now but wow! how things change!
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Old 03-21-2013, 06:55 AM
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In my state school agers can be outside without me but I physically have to check on them every 15 minutes. I do allow it because the back of my home is mostly windows and I have a good view of them in the back yard. But I am constantly making sure they are behaving...I will say that I do agree with having to be on school agers every minute and let them know who is in charge. If I could get rid of the school aged kids I would, because I find them to be more trouble than they are worth.

I have done the outside good byes and it really helps.
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Old 03-21-2013, 06:59 AM
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I have it in my contracts that during pick up and drop off the parents are responsible for their Children's behavior. I'm not going to step on their parenting. I have a couple older kids that really act out but my others are infants and are always happy to see their parents. But recently I got a drop in kid who is almost 3 and when his Step mom/dads girlfriend picks him up (always the last kid to be picked up) he cries and hides behind me and doesn't want to leave, even though before she walks in the door he says he's excited to see her. I can really tell that it bothers her and she always tries to explain to me that he normally really likes her. It kinda breaks my heart for her, but I just explain that with that age kids are experiencing a lot of new emotions and its just a little separation anxiety. All kids do it at some point, in some way. I have another B/C school age 5 yr old who is an angel for me, and always listens the first time I ask, but he hides from his dad when he picks him up and dilly dallies. He also acts like he cant put his shoes or coat on by himself and despite multiple requests from his dad, rarely listens the first time. I really don't think its my place to jump in and take over, since he listens here so well. Its just kind of like, rubbing it in their face at that point. Like "IDK why he doesn't liksten to you, he's great here" I think it just seems like overkill. Let them deal with it once they are out of the door.
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Old 03-21-2013, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Play Care View Post
In my state school agers can be outside without me but I physically have to check on them every 15 minutes. I do allow it because the back of my home is mostly windows and I have a good view of them in the back yard. But I am constantly making sure they are behaving...I will say that I do agree with having to be on school agers every minute and let them know who is in charge. If I could get rid of the school aged kids I would, because I find them to be more trouble than they are worth.

I have done the outside good byes and it really helps.
My school agers are also aloud to be outside by themselves, I only "need to be available to them" I love this in the summer, as they go outside to play during rest time.
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:13 AM
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I love the outside bye bye method. I used to have issues with pick-up and drop-offs but since I switched to having the kids get ready to go home I have had no real issues . I think it works because as soon as they are able to try to put on shoes I have them start practicing getting ready to go. So from day one they know what to expect. Also, I believe it helps their mind transition from "daycare" to "home". Children need that transition time, and without our guidance on how they need to respond during that time they go NUTS. I also believe that it is both power and excitement involved in the mass amount of misbehavior during pick-ups (that's when it happens most for me, if ever)
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Old 05-14-2013, 11:20 AM
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I had a problem with the DCKs and my own children acting out at pick ups so now I seperate the kids by age groups. I keep the newborn, one year old and two year olds in the playroom with me. The five, four and three year olds play in my kids bedrooms. The three and four year old are mine so they are fine playing in their rooms without me for twenty minutes. Pick ups have run a lot more smoothly now. For whatever reason it works!
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Old 05-14-2013, 11:57 AM
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Yes mine do! We are usually outside at pick up or doing free play and they don't want to go home! Some kick and scream all the way to their car. I guess it's a good sign that they like it here!
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Old 05-14-2013, 12:23 PM
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This is an old thread, but a good one

I love the bye bye outside. Mine are coats on, belongings gathered, ready to step out the door when I answer it. The kid goes out to the parent waiting on the porch, I shut the door, nice and smooth.

A concern I do have though, is I have two parents that then let their child run all around after outside. I am inside watching from the window (they can't see me), but rather than grabbing their kid and getting them in the car, they let them run around the yard. Yesterday one was in my flowerbed and the mom just let her climb around until she was ready to go. The other child on day was almost hit by a car while the dad watched him run up and down the sidewalk and into the street. What about the liability in that? They are on my property, but have been released to the parent and I am back inside caring for other kids. I have talked to the parents many times about this, but they are both families that let their kids lead.
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Old 05-14-2013, 12:28 PM
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I have the same issues as you all do. A couple of things have been irritating me lately. I have a couple of parents that will pick up their children (2 and 3 yrs old) and hold them while saying goodbye to me at pickup. The light switch (3 switches) is right there. These parents sit there and let their kids turn on and off, on and off the switches while talking to me. I have said, oh no don't do that and yet they still stand there and let them do it. Drives me nuts.

Also another issue is sometimes when 2 of them come at once the 2 moms start flapping to each other and they are the last ones to pickup. So I'm standing their letting them gab and really just want to shove them out the door so I can begin my night. What is a tackful way to tell them to beat it?
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Old 05-14-2013, 01:32 PM
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I remember the conveyer belt idea someone said on a very old thread...
that would work really great too!

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Old 05-14-2013, 02:42 PM
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I've had that too - at one time I used a Treasure Box as a bribe for the children to go home nicely!

One thing I do early in the relationship is find a time to casually mention that all children go through a phase where they don't want to come in the morning and don't want to go home at night. I'll talk about it a couple of times, then when the child reaches the phase the parents are fore-warned. IMO it's better to let them know at a time when the child ISN'T going through it than wait until they do - if you wait it looks like you're making things up so the parent won't be upset.
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