I had a friend that does childcare call me this morning in disbelieve. She takes care of a child that has been having some sleeping issues at night and is not going to sleep till like 1 or 2 in the morning. There were some other issues going on also so they took the child to the doctor and was told no more naps if you want the child to sleep at night. Child is always first one asleep at daycare and sleeps 2-3 hours and is 5 years old. Mom and dad are very involved with the child and not ones just to feed and put to bed. This is like the second or third time this week I have heard that now doctors are saying to not have children nap so they will sleep at night!

Reply

Parents forget that doctors have education in medical issues, not behavior or anything else. Your (general your) ped. does NOT know everything. This is the simple answer from the doctors point of view to pass the buck to the parents. They are getting misinformation. Sleep begats sleep and obviously this is the case if a 5 year old is taking a long morning nap, thats not normal. I wonder what is going on at home.....

Reply

I could see being in disbelief if the kid were 5 months old, but do all kids need to take naps at 5 years old? I don't know; I've never been in charge of a 5yo for longer than a day, and I didn't care about naps--I was the auntie!

eta: the only other reason why I can think that the doc may have suggested no naptime is maybe he's trying to reset the kid's clock so he sleeps before 2am? That's hard on me, and I'm an adult. If the kid is so tired he's sleeping for hours in the am, then if he's forced to stay awake for a day or two, his clock might reset and maybe he can go back to sleeping at night AND taking an afternoon nap, if he needs one.

Reply

All of my own children stopped taking naps at 2-3 yrs old. My youngest who is 5 doesn't nap unless he is ill.

My dcb's that are 5 (3 of them) dont have naps either.

It's no wonder he doesnt sleep at night.

Reply

No its not a morning nap it not till the afternoon when everyone else falls asleep around 1:00 I believe. Plays all morning long and is a pretty happy little person. Then everyone is up around 3:00-3:30 I believe maybe a little later but not alot.

When I talked to her again it was actually a counsler that has been seeing her. My friend didn't seem aware that she was seeing one and wasn't aware of the sleep problem till today. The mom said they were seeing her because of the sleep problem and possible anxiety issues. So the counsler is the one who has recommended not having her take naps during the day. It sounds like she naps at home still too.

Reply

I consult for two centers and you wouldn't BELIEVE the Doc notes that come their way.

This one is simple: I don't provide services to children who don't need a full afternoon nap. Give your one months notice and make arrangements for your child's nap during that time.

I don't know WHY parents go to Doctors for stuff like this. How hard is it to just communicate with your provider and tell them that the service you are providing doesn't work for your child?

Reply

What was it I heard once...because parents want "special." LOL!

If the doctor says it, then the daycare provider will HAVE TO do it. After all, Dr.'s orders! LOL!!!!!

Reply

I would tell them to find a daycamp. Because I'm not changing my nap schedule for one child.

I DO however, let kids watch movies at naptime. I'd probably never even dream of letting a five year old sleep for three hours.

I'd say "O.K.. You take a Friday off, keep him up all Friday, Saturday and Sunday..... then On Monday, I'll make sure he lies there quietly, but doesn't fall asleep. But, I'd make them take some time off to change his schedule. If on Sunday, he's still staying awake til midnight, then it's not my problem. They need to be the ones to get him on a better schedule. I don't want a miserable child who's not getting enough sleep. They need to reprogram him at home first.

BUT, that's how we do it here anyway. I always put on a movie for them. So, I wouldn't be making any changes here. It's not a big deal for me to poke him with a stick every time he starts to doze off. LOL

Reply

"Oh no I will miss little ***X so much, it's too bad you'll have to look for other care that does not have nap time for children who are not of school age! Please provide written notice." That's it, done deal.

Reply

Ditto. Of course the child is 5 and I don't normally make kids over 5 nap but then again I don't watch DC kids over 5 now anyway, they're normally in school and I don't do school-age kids. On the other hand I have 6yo DD and I MAKE her nap right along with the other DC kids during the week on her breaks and summer because if she doesn't she gets cranky and falls asleep like at 5 or 6 and then wakes up at 7 or 8 and won't go back to sleep until after 10 and that is NOT happening here. Bedtime is 8:30pm, the latest.

My DD could stay up until 2am if you let her ... once again, if you let her. We do not. She says she's not tired, will cry, throw a fit, toss and turn dramatically but she is still not allowed to stay up. She lays down at the same time every day regardless of whether she napped or not and she ends up falling asleep anyway. There were times that she got up and played in her room with her night light on... we removed the night light. She would then sneak downstairs to watch TV ... we disconnected the cable every night. She then decided that the street light outside was enough light that she could still play in her room with ... we installed heavy draping and I sewed bells to the bottoms so that we could hear if she tried to open the drapes. We put the baby monitor in her room at night so we could hear if she got out of bed, we got up every time that she got up and put her right back into bed. It was a struggle but guess what? She now sleeps in her bed on time every night. Kids are kids. Maybe the child's sleep patterns are changing but that doesn't mean that they can't be changed back.

Reply

I would suggest parents wake them a couple hours earlier. Say, 5ish. Then your friends nap will replace that chunk of sleep. And child can get back on schedule. Personally it's what I suggest when parents come to me with the nap issue, I require a nap. If the kids outgrow it, they outgrow me.

Reply

It's because the parents assume that if the DOCTOR said it, then you must abide by it.

Not here! My house... my rules!

All children take a nap. This is GROUP care. If the child has outgrown their nap, they need to go elsewhere for day care.

I have it in my handbook that the same rules apply with sickness. Just because the doctor says "can return to day care" does NOT trump my rules! I decide whether or not the child can return according to LICENSING regulations, not the doc's opinion.

Doc does not make the rules at my facility.

Reply

You know what? I love this suggestion. When a parent tries to make it the providers responsibility to correct the sleeping/napping issue at daycare this suggestion puts the responsibility back onto the parent. I will have to remember this one.

Reply

So does the kid go to bed at a reasonable time on the weekends when mom/dad don't allow him to nap? I doubt it.

Dr's don't have time to deal with parenting issues so they toss out ideas that have NOTHING to do with the problem. They just want to get you out of their office.

I agree with the other posters, I would suggest another care arrangement.

Reply

IMHO that is going to leave alot of parents without decent childcare...I don't know many providers that would have an awake child all day long and not have a break.

Reply

Yes and remember that when you get return to daycare notes.

Get in
Get out
Get paid

This doc came up with something that he could write out in less than a minute and got the client out the DOOR.

Next..........

Reply

if this child needs a nap, or your friend just needs/wants that quiet time, then I suggest having him lay down quietly to read a book or listen to music or something. If he falls asleep he needs that nap but don't let him sleep for more than 20 minutes or a half hour. A little cat nap. It might be that if he's falling asleep at 1 and allowed to sleep for 2 or 3 hours then he getting too much of a nap in the pm.

I would also consider maybe the fact that this kid could be hitting his second wind in the evening, and therefore no longer tired and wired to go. Or maybe there's a sugar intake maybe mom or dad isn't aware of?

My own kids stopped napping around 2-3 yrs. But they will sometimes lay down for a nap in they are tired at some point during the day. And we let them. The harder they play outside, the more they want a nap. Usually my 3 yo is the one to pass out at 3pm or sometimes 5 pm for a little cat nap. and he never has troubles sleeping at night.

Reply

Yep, especially since it seems that this kind of doctor recommendation is more and more common. I doubt that the parent told the doctor that the child was in DC. When my daughter was having sleeping problems at a younger age (before I did daycare) my doctor also recommended that I keep her awake during the day or shorten her nap. I told him that she was in DC and that it wasn't doable and he seemed to really understand that and recommended a lot of "vigorous play" before bedtime. Either the ladies doctor doesn't know that the child is in DC or he doesn't know how DC works.

Reply

Is this 5 year old going to kindy in 5 weeks?! If so, I'd tell the parents that a nap is required, however, to accommodate the sleeping issues, you will only lay him down for an hour and a half so that way he's only sleeping for maybe an hour.

If he's not going to kindy...buh, bye little buddy. You outgrew my program! Best of luck to you!

Reply

love the idea of passing the buck back to the parent if you are the provider. They can wake their kid earlier in the morning so they DO need a nap by then, instead of asking the provider to keep kiddo up all day. You can bet how well that would go over with parents. "What? me solve a problem? isn't that what i pay you and the doctor for?"

Reply

My 4 to 6 year olds aren't required to nap unless they are sick or were up too late the previous night. I have an assistant play with our "older" children in a different room while the little ones are napping. I don't think my DP's (of the older children) would be thrilled if their (older) child were sleeping 2 to 3 hours during the day. But, that's just my opinion.

Reply

The doctor's note is of no importance to me in this matter. The doctor is only good for looking in a kid's ear and writing out a prescription. LOL. That's exaggerating, but you know what I mean!

However, the kid is FIVE for heaven's sake. He's not TWO. If he doesn't need a nap, don't give him a nap. Simple as that. Most kids stop needing them by the time they turn FOUR. I'm more befuddled that your friend was making him take a nap, than I am about the doctor's note. Just stop the naps. End of story. He's the first one to fall asleep because he's awake till 1 or 2 am BECAUSE he took a nap. It may be hard for a week or so, but once he's back on a good schedule withOUT naps, he'll go to bed at a decent time and be well rested in the morning.

Reply

It's required in my daycare that ALL children 5 and under nap. All of them do, and all of my current parents encourage it. My 0-2 years kids nap in the am from 9-10 and everyone (but me, of course ) naps in the pm from 1-3. We have a little snack and go outdoors to play! I think more doctors needs to prescribe physical activity instead of not napping

Reply

I completely agree with you.

Reply

My kids nap until the day before they go to Kindergarten.

I can't even IMAGINE having kids up during nap. It's beyond my comprehension. There's nothing "simple" about having kids up needing direct care an additional two/two and a half hours a day in a ten/twelve hour day.

When I start newborns it takes me a couple of weeks to get them onto our routine. Every day is a step closer to meshing them into our schedule which is rooted in one key ingredient to success: EVERYBODY sleeps during nap.

Just the couple of weeks it takes me to get the newborn on our gig just KICKS my rear end. I can't IMAGINE knowing every day I was going to have a four or five year old up. I would rather have a baby up than an older kid any day of the week.

If I had to have a kid up during nap it would affect me so profoundly that I wouldn't be able to do the job I do every day. I know "I"M" not cut out for that so I don't offer the service. If I need to have a kid up because of illness or special circumstance for a day or so... then that's part of my gig. Having an older kid up every day is NOT. I don't charge for it... I can't do it... I don't offer it.

Now that is simple.

Reply

I would personally suggest, that if this kid is tired enough that he NEEDS his nap in the afternoon, and then can't fall asleep at night, then tell dcm and dcd, that on saturday, they can wake him up early or let him sleep in, whatever floats their boat, and then not let him nap, and put him to bed at a decent time. They do this saturday and sunday, and by monday maybe he'll be better.

I don't think it's fair to your friend that she has to suffer and keep this kid awake if he is wanting this nap. I'm not sure if he's moody and tired, or if he'd be fine. But she still deserves her half hour to an hour of quiet time too. So he can sit and play with a puzzle or whatever else STARTING monday. Mom and dad can change the routine at home, your friend shouldn't have to.

Reply

Wow, a lot of providers seem like they couldn't survive without all their children napping. When I first read the comments I thought it was "just a saying" but you really CAN"T have a good day if a 5 yr old doesnt nap?! What happened to adapting a little? These are kids, not robots! Every day, and every kid is different.

There is obviously more going on with this kid, I doubt the doctor just booted him out the door. It makes sense to me...want the kid to sleep at night? Don't let him sleep 2 hrs during the day! I would think differently if the child was younger, but 5 is pushing it.

Reply

That would be me.

Reply

I agree. My own kids dropped naps around 2 1/2. If they slept even a 1/2 hour during the day they were running around their rooms until midnight.

And totally agree. I had a DC mom who insisted I nap her child even though he was 5 and the situation was very much like what I bolded. She's a teacher so he's home over the summer, I hope she's weaning him from the nap or Kindergarden is going to be brutal.

Reply

I too go by the rule...if you have outgrown my nap, you have outgrown my daycare, for all children not attending school yet. I have a just turned 5 yr old. Will go to kindy in the fall. She has always fought her sleep, always. If she doesn't nap, she is a little witch, trouble make, grouch, etc. I can certainly tell when she "hasn't had a nap". I had this child 9 hours a day 5 days a week. I was the one dealing with the disruption at nap time, not mom. Typically she would fight sleep till 2/2:30, to which she would then fall asleep, and then she was harder than hades to wake up. I now have her 2 days a week. She has the choice to lay down or go outside to play during nap. Normally she chooses outside, but when I bring them in for snack and wait for parents,,,,,she lays on the floor and falls asleep. She still needs a nap. Parents just need to step up and be the parent and not the little friend. They also need to get the tv's and other distractions out of the bedrooms. A child gets put to bed and they are to stay there. period.

Reply

Found out a little more on the sleep of the child. Child is getting up about 6:15 and is at childcare by 7:00. Eats breakfast and plays hard all morning. Was in kindergarten this past year, in the morning and then would take a nap in the afternoon. But for the summer they play all morning, plant flowers, do crafts, etc., then lunch then lay down at 1:00 and back up by 3:00. Child isn't picked up till 5:30 and then is up till about 1:00-2;00 in the morning. So from what the provider and I can figure out from this is the child is sleeping about 4-5 hours at night and then her two hour nap. Has been with the provider for about a year and this has just started happening since school was out about a month ago. My kids are way more tired in the summer from all the playing we do. Counselor said the child should be sleeping about 10 hours a night but even with her nap she isn't even close to that. From her naptime till she is following asleep she is up about 10-11 hours! The only thing I wonder if she doesn't take a nap would she be ready for bed at 5:00 in the evening before she is even picked up. Provider did keep her up the best she could but the child was sooooo tired that she ended up sleeping I believe.

Reply

I couldn't function with a 13 hour work day and no break. Even my schoolies take a 2 hour nap while here over summer break. The older ones are aged 10, 11 and 12. They don't complain and are the hardest to wake up!

Eons ago, I tried it. Mommy promised that little Jimmy didn't need a nap and wold be very good at nap time. "Jimmy" was quiet for about 20 minutes and then the whining started.

"I'm bored"
"Is nap time over yet"
"I'm done playing with this...what now?"
I want the kids to wake up and play with me"
"Can I go outside?"

I spent the whole of nap time entertaining one child. I was exhausted at the end of the day. My paperwork wasn't done and I was behind on chores because he needed constant entertaining.
Puzzle..10 minutes...done.
Coloring...5 minutes...done
Story...then another....then another.....
Movie....fell asleep......Oh no! Mommy didn't want that!

Two hours to an awake kid is a lifetime...

Finally! all his buddies up at 3PM

Thennnnn.... he was cranky and ended up falling asleep on the couch.

Thennnnnn.......Sara's Mommy decided she didn't a nap either. Jimmy and Sara spent the nap time hours tormenting each other and driving me crazy. Then they BOTH fell asleep later in the afternoon.....

The rules changed...

EVERYBODY SLEEPS AT MY HOUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They need the rest and SO DO I!!

Reply

While I tend to agree with the Dr. about eliminating the afternoon nap, it will take some time as the child IS on a schedule. Right now she NEEDS that afternoon nap because her nighttime sleep is so little.

I wonder what their bedtime routine is if there is any. Waiting for the child to crash and burn will give her that 1-2:00AM bedtime. The parents might invest in a white noise machine to try to extend that nighttime sleep. A warm bath, brush teeth and a book read at bedtime is classic. I had difficulty with my first and found a children's tape player with those little books on tape were a life saver. He would lie in bed and listen to the tape - if he wasn't sleepy enough when it was done he would turn it over and listen again. Rarely did he have to listen to it a 3rd time.

They cannot mandate you to eliminate her nap. If they want their child up, then they need to find other care for her or yet, perish the thought, actually take care of her themselves. And yes, she WILL be little miss cranky pants until she adjusts to the new routine. They want YOU to experience that, not them. hehe!

Everyone wants to press that "Easy Button". Sorry folks, parenting isn't easy.

Reply

Nap time doesn't mean that they have to actually sleep, no one can force that but you can do a quiet time. My 3.5 year old rarely naps but she does lay in her bed and read books and play quietly for 1.5 to 2 hours each day so mama gets a break. I'm not too proud to admit that I need nap time too! I have three kids of my own plus a 9 week old that is still co-sleeping and it is just too much to be on duty 24/7 (paid or unpaid)

Reply

And do you think providers put their feet up, eat bonbons and watch their soaps during nap time?
Nap time is catch up time - productive time for providers. It's when they do their cleaning, activity prep and maybe, just maybe they take a whole 10 minutes to eat a bite or two of lunch.

Having one child up will soon escalate to having 5 children up because try as they may, they can't be quiet for 2 hours and will wake up the others. Productive time goes out the window at that point.

Providers work 10-12 hours a day and are paid very little for their time. SOME parents actually appreciate all that they do.

Reply

hmm, I have to agree that at 5 thats too old for a nap. Would I eliminate them from my daycare, umm NO. I think by saying that if they don't need a nap then they have outgrown the daycare sounds like a selfish reason on a providers part. And it makes you look like all you do is eat and watch tv thats why you want the kids to sleep. I also find it hard to believe that children can't play quietly, because I don't have a problem with the kids, and I still have to time to clean, make dinner, get my stuff ready for the day.

Reply

What I find funny is everyone says five years old is to old for a nap! Why would be my question? If their body is tired it is needing a nap. I speak from experience of being a napper. All through first grade the last part of the day was storytime and each day the teacher woke me up from it to get on the bus to go home. Did they get mad, kick me out of school-no, the teacher knew it was a very quiet part of the day I had been at school since 8:30 and it was probably around 2:30 or so and I was tired. I got on the bus at 7:00 so it was a long day for me.

I have struggled with tiredness/sleepyness all my life in the afternoon. Last year I was tested and tested for what was causing it. They could find nothing! My doctor gave me samples of a medicine that worked wonders for me but the insurance decided that since I didn't have the "right" diagnoses they wouldn't cover it. Doing some self diagnosis I think I have some sort of SAD and it is not fun to live with. This year has been an ok year-not as tired-but starting to feel it again so thinking of going back to the doctor and going from there.

I'm wondering if this little one isn't suffering from some sort of insomnia maybe. Especially since it is lighter out later and it has only started since schoool go out last month.

Reply

Yes I will go with selfish self preservation. It's okay to watch tv and eat whle the kids sleep.

I don't have the kids all nap so the house is quiet for the sleeping kids. My house is big enough that I could run a circus during nap and the sleeping kids would snooze thru it. It's the direct supervision and care I'm not willing to do. I want all the kids on the same schedule so when we are doing the "direct care" of the kids we are doing it with a group of kids ... not one adult to one kid or one adult to two kids. I can't make any money with that kind of ratio.

Reply

My DD still naps every day for atleast 1-2 hours. She has always done this. When she got to be school age, she took her nap right afterwards. She always went to bed at a decent hour and would be a bear without a nap. Oh, and I should mention she is 23 yrs old. LOL!!

Reply

Almost without fail, my kindergartners come home and WANT a nap...heck, I have a first grader who falls asleep almost daily after school!

Reply

I don't think napping is a "one size fits all" thing. Some children need a nap, some don't. I think for the provider, it should be their choice wether or not they insist all children nap, but they should be prepared to lose clients/children when the child ages out of naptime. I do not think it is fair to force a child to lay on a mat awake for hours so that the provider can have her "break" I think providers need to be honest and fair and let the child go if they do not want to accomodate a non-napping child. It's really simple...

Reply

yeah, my 5 yo and 7 yo are exhausted by about 4 or 5 pm, but we can't let them sleep at that time, so we make them stay awake, eat supper, have a bath and then it's bedtime at 730. When kids are waking up at 6am, they can't handle it past 5pm. They are grumpy and tired. If they are up too long, then they hit their second wind and good luck getting them to bed once that hits. Biggest thing is keeping them busy so they forget how tired they are until bedtime.

We always have some relaxing time before bed as well. Helps settle them down.


As for the comment about too bad for us providers if we don't get that nap time in with ALL the kids. That's not fair. If you work outside of the home, you have scheduled breaks. Its illegal to not have a certain number of breaks for a certain amount of time at work. If you work an 8 hour day, you get 2- 15 min breaks (coffee break) and 1 either half hour or 1 hour lunch break. You can leave work and do whatever you want/need to do, sit outside have a coffee or a cigarette etc. It's not fair to judge a daycare provider for wanting that time during a 9-12 hour day to have some time to do dishes, clean up toys, prepare for the next activity, sweep, mop, or whatever else she needs to do. When everyone else leaves work, they get to leave and forget about it. Why should us providers have to put in an extra 2-3 hours AFTER daycare hours to clean up toys, and everything else? If we close at 530 that means we are cleaning up until 830 pm. I go to bed much earlier than that.

I don't think it's ok to force a child to nap that doesn't want a nap. But for children who are bad during nap/quiet time, they disrupt all the other children, and prevent the provider from doing what needs to be done. If the child can lay down on a mat and read a book or play a puzzle without disrupting others, that's great. But the provider still needs to supervise that child more than she would if that child was sleeping.

I also agree that if the child has outgrown naps, and everyone else is, then it might be time for that child to find a different daycare. But at the same time, that poor child will have to adjust to a new one. And if every daycare did this, where would school aged children go when school is out? Would all toddlers/children who no long take naps because mom/dad doesn't want them to have to switch to a daycare that is willing? How many daycares are willing not to? I know kindy's still have to have mat/quiet time. Grade 1 is the first year without for many schools.

Reply

I've never had a child just lie there. I think we wear them all out and they WANT to sleep! Even the ones who TELL me they aren't tired.....are asleep in minutes.

Reply

Oh, beleive me, there are MANY providers who make them just lay there. Many of them are quite mean about it as well.

Yes, my kids are all worn out and fall asleep when they lay down, but I don't make the older kids lay down to nap....they stay up and participate in quiet activities....books, playdough, drawing, etc.

Reply

your right, but read some of the posts, they are basically saying that if they don't take a nap then I don't want them here, no matter what kind of child it is. So basically no matter how good a child is or how good the parents are many providers would rather get rid of child because they don't nap so they can have quiet time, thats what is wrong. And they are no better than those parents that we complain about. There is a difference between a child needing sleeping and forcing sleep. Not all children need naps at the age of 5, so why are people forcing them to sleep.

Reply

thats what they do here, and I've never had a problem. Today I have all school agers and they are so good, and my school agers love the fact that they can play with stuff that is off limits when the littles are around.

Reply

I don't worry about about what other day care's do. I do what works for MY day care. I know that my kids don't want me tired and cross and frustrated because I haven't had a second to sit down and breathe all day.

I don't run my business around what is convenient for the parents. If they want that kind of control, they need to hire a nanny and tell HER she's not entitled to have a break during the day......

I am open 6AM to 6PM. At 6PM, my time belongs to me and my family. I don't spend it doing things that could have been done at nap time. I love my day care kids a lot. But my own family is more important. They don't need an exhausted wife/mom all the time. I use the 2 hour nap time to recharge my batteries. It's how I've been able to do this for 25 years.

I'm 50 years old and not getting any younger. I hope to be able to do day care until I drop. Without nap time that would probably be next week!!!

Reply

I agree with both quotes here.

My oldest was a sleeper - whoa baby was he a sleeper. 13 hours during the night and a 3 hour nap to boot. Funny thing is - He's the one with ADHD! By 5 he would still take a nap after Kindergarten.

2nd child - I was LUCKY if I could get him down for 9 hours at a time during the night. At 5 he was bouncing off to the neighbors for more play after Kindergarten.

I was a SAHM though and let sleeping babies lie. I had the liberty to adjust my schedule around theirs. With the 2nd child I elminated naps at 3 as a 2 hour nap would have him going to bed after 10:00 and I was the one that needed him to bed by 8:00-8:30 for my own sanity. He has always been a very intense kid and I was an older Mom so honey, I was TIRED by 8:00 PM.

In a Center we need children on the same or at least similar schedules. Most adjust well but there is the occasional child that doesn't fit in the program.
We are required to have the children rest on their cots for the first half hour. If they aren't asleep by then they are allowed to look at a book, do a small puzzle and eventually get up to color. It's still hard to keep them quiet when they have so much energy.

Reply

I might have missed the posts that you are reffering to but I don't remember reading that anyone forces their kids to nap. I did read a few that said that if they outgrew napping then they outgrew their program, meaning if they no longer napped then the daycare could no longer meet their needs.

I just recently changed my ages that I accept from 6weeks-10yo to 6weeks-5yo. Why? Because I tried the whole "Everyone participates in nap OR quiet time" thing and it didn't work for me. No matter how hard I tried one of the non-nappers was always making noise and waking the other nappers. The rest of the day I had cranky, crying, impossible children when they would otherwise be great kids. This is incredibly stressfull when you have 5 or more children that are cranky all at once.

I am with Nan on this one. I also think that it's ok to be "selfish". This is our business afterall. We as providers are able to run our daycares how we want to, it's a big reason why many of us choose to do family daycare instead of working in a center or elsewhere caring for children or like me ... teaching. I think that we should respect the way others want to run their businesses. I respect that you don't require your daycare children to nap. I, on the other hand, only take children 6weeks-5yo and require that they all lay down and participate in a nap. I have never, as of yet, come across a 5yo that does not nap. I just had a DCB leave DC because he'll be going to Kinder and he was my biggest napper. My daughter is 6yo and she still naps. I have had DCP's tell me that their 4 or 5 yo doesn't nap and then fall asleep during quiet time. Even when I didn't require naps most of the kids needed a nap and I won't force a child to stay awake just as much as I don't force a child to nap ... btw I don't know about anyone else but I know that I don't force a child to nap, they lay down and fall asleep on their own within 5 minutes even when they say they aren't tired and will usually sleep all the way through 2 hours of nap. Sometimes one or two wakes up an hour later and that's fine, they can play and they then wake the other nappers up that's ok too, at least they all had 1 hour of nap. Usually though they'll sleep for 2 hours and would keep on napping longer if I didn't wake them.

This is why the interview process is so important. It's a time to relay to the parents "Hey this is how I do things, Does that work for you?" Saying that the kids here nap is the same as saying "I transport the kids in my car", "I don't allow late pick-ups", "I don't serve juice", "I don't rock to sleep", "I require to be paid in advance of care" etc etc etc. We each have a way of doing our own thing and our job is to discuss this info with potential clients and it's theirs to decide whether they want to sign up or keep looking for a daycare that can better suit their needs. And yes I agree that a provider should be prepared to lose business ... as for me, I'd rather not have the client that requires me to keep their child up than to me stressed out and not a get a break for 12 hours. That would burn me out.

Reply

Not here.

I don't make kids lay awake. If they don't need to sleep they leave. That's for every age group.

We like to discuss this about kids who are four or five but my experience is that there is not an age limit to this. It's just as prominent in the infant, one, two, three age group as it is in four and five year olds.

I pre-interviewed a Mom a while back who told me her ten month old son was too young to take a 2.5 hour nap. Yes you read that right... "too young".

My kids go to bed and within a couple of minutes the house is completely quiet and they sleep till we come to get them. 99 out of 100 days every kid sleeps every day all thru nap. Now and then you will get a newborn or a newbie to adjust or a sick kid but other than that... it's easy peezy at my house.

This discussion happens all the time on day care boards but thankfully NOT IRL. All my kids take naps at home every day they aren't here. My kids NEED a lot of good deep sleep.

Reply

Yes see above

You have to be willing to loose clients to have a policy like mine. I think many providers feel like they HAVE to allow kids up during nap because they have the younger siblings to the child or they can't afford to loose the kids income.

That's where you see the forcing to take a nap.

So when you take sib groups... know that this may come up as the children age. When you interview make it clear that everyone who attends needs a nap. When their child doesn't need a nap then the program won't work. That's for ANY age child... not just preK kids.

It works both ways. When you have a family that is very firm on wanting their child to be a really good sleeper then they love the portion of your program where you tell them you don't take kids who don't need a nap. These parents want their child to be in a home where everyone around their child is rested INCLUDING the care giver.

So... it's a great selling point too. You just have to find the clients that really value good deep sleep and a provider who KNOWS what they can and can't do to be happy in their job.

Reply

If someone was referring to my post, all the daycare kids nap, my oldest daughter does quiet time. Its my business, I can do it however I want and if the parents don't like it, find someone else they do like, end of story. I have yet to find a daycare child that is not completely exhausted most of the time with mom and dad. All my daycare families either don't tell the kid no (as in "no, you have to lay down and nap") or run the kids ragged all the time and they come here crying for sleep!

Reply

I had one that still took a morning nap plus an afternoon nap. I let the mom know that I only did afternoon naps because of my scheduling and the child adjusted to that. Have had child for almost a year and he still takes two naps at home on the weekends but only one for me. Actually sleeps really good for me in the afternoon.

Reply

This is my house too. I think activity and nutrition at home have a lot to do

With it too. I have had kids drinking mtn dew at dinner and fruit snacks for dessert with chocolate milk. And they say my nap is the reason they aren't wanting to go to bed. Rofl !!

Reply

You have to be willing to loose clients to have a policy like mine. I think many providers feel like they HAVE to allow kids up during nap because they have the younger siblings to the child or they can't afford to loose the kids income.

Just to "shake" things up and give people something more to talk about I run the opposite policy. I do not accept children that still need a nap they do not fit into my program. I run a primarily school program (willing to take any age that does not need a nap). I transport to and from school, have daily field trips on all non-school days holidays and summer. Thus making a nap time something that is very difficult to arrange in my schedule. I organized my day care like this on propose so that my older children would fit into it easily. Yes, I have turned away parents because their child still needs a nap or because they where young enough that they could not convince me the child did not need a nap (14 months)

Reply

I run a program that is the opposite and have had to turn parents down because the child still needs a nap.

Reply

Fabulous

There are providers out there for everything the parent wants for the child and what the child wants. It's just a matter of finding the right match.

Reply

Country...the wonderful thing about being self-employed day care providers is that we can do whatever we want with our care.

I take kids from newborn up. Some providers don't take babies. That doesn't make them bad providers.

Some providers only tend school age kids. Some providers will not take a child past 5 years old. That doesn't make them bad providers.

Some do pre-school, some don't. One is not better than the other...just different.

Some do early morning hours, some don't open until many hours later.

Some do evening care. Some don't. Are the ones who refuse to give up their evenings bad providers? They don't want the kids there even if they are great kids and great parents.....just so they can have some quiet time? They would rather get rid of a child than do that? You betcha!

I feel the same way about my nap time break as I do about my evenings. I don't care how sweet a child is, I don't care how great the parent is...I don't do evening care. I don't do nap time either. My choice.

It's all about choice. I choose to make sure I get a break in the middle of the day. I have noticed that some providers on here don't open until 7:30-8 AM and close at 4:40-5PM!!! I wish I was so lucky! I work 6AM to 6PM. I get up at 5AM and don't get home to my family until 6:30 PM. I am 50 years old and not getting younger. I have 4 kids of my own (even if they are older) and a husband to take care of too. I NEED a break during the day. I would become ill if I just worked non stop all day.

So yes...I only take nappers. Just like other providers only take potty-trained. Just like some providers only serve organic food. Just like some providers do a lot of field trips and other don't.

We are all different. The parents know coming into the day care what the policies are.

I have never forced a child to nap and never will. If they outgrow nap, they have simply outgrown my day care. But in 25 years I have never had anyone leave me due to this. My own kids napped right up to Kindergarten and beyond. I personally do not believe that children get enough sleep if they are awake from 6AM until their parents put them to bed at night. We have a very active day care and they all crash out at nap time. All 16 of them. Even my schoolies. They play hard, eat well and then sleep hard.

It may work fine for you to have kids up and around all day. It doesn't work for me. This does not make me a bad provider.

Reply

I have about 7 five-year-olds. They all nap, except for the one with ADHD. Most of our kids get up by 6:30 or 7 am, and we play hard, go outside everyday and go on tons of field trips. They're bushed.

I have a few who willfully do not nap, and yes I do require them to lie down (and be quiet) at least 2/3 of the rest period. I will not sacrifice the much-needed sleep of 17 so that 3 of them won't be bored. The ones who would quietly look at books or color during rest are the ones who sleep three hours . The ones who don't nap are trainwrecks by 4:30 in the afternoon.

If a kid eats well, plays hard, and is under the age of 6, they'll nap in the afternoon and be a better kid for it. IMO.

Reply

Five year olds do NOT nap here unless they truly require one once in a while. They're heading to kindergarten in a matter of weeks. I won't be the one responsible for their internal clocks thinking they need a nap when they are supposed to be at school! Parents have no problem with me sitting with a cup of tea and a book while the 5 year olds do quiet, supervised activity. (Yes, I actually can supervise 5 year olds coloring/doing puzzles etc. in the same room while I read a book.) Plus they learn that what do you know? They can actually do an activity without me directing/hovering.

If I were to require kids that age to sleep, I wouldn't accept them into care. It isn't fair to them as I would absolutely NOT be meeting their needs.

Reply

I worked in a pre-k for 3 years and several of the children needed a nap until the day they whet to kindergarten. Some of them still needed a nap once in Kindergarten it was a private school so we where able to offer a after noon rest (at their desk) which was phased out when the "class" out grew the need for it usually before Christmas. On the other hand several of the children had out grown their nap before Christmas of their pre-k year and would not fall asleep just sit/lay on mat for the entire 2 hour nap time.

Naps needs are not the same for every child.

There is more than one right way to run a child care center/home. Not all of them are the right fit for every child. Some providers run a all children nap program, others run a some nap some do not, and still other run a no nap time program. All of these program are a right way to run child care program. None of them are the one right way.

I think we have discussed this enough maybe we could move on.
We seem to be posting the same thing over and over again.

Reply

A lot of kids go back to needing a nap when they start school.. it isn't unusual. If a school aged kid needs a nap, they get one. If they don't, then they don't. Some do just fine with some "quiet time" but not necessarily sleep. My own kid is in grade 5.. he certainly doesn't nap anymore but he does need "me time" when he gets home. He doesn't want to talk much about his day or anything else.. he wants to veg out for 20 minutes or so. He'll talk later.

IMO being a childcare provider is about meeting the child's needs. If my set up doesn't do that then those kids shouldn't be here. I don't believe in forcing them to comply with my standards if those standards aren't right for them. This is home daycare, not the military. Therefore I don't have a policy that says "everyone must nap" or whatever. My own needs vary from day to day.. I fully expect a child's needs to do the same. Some days little ones may need a little more cuddle time than others.. and some days an older kids rest needs will be different, too. As someone else said, they aren't robots.

Reply

I'm shocked to read your responses. It seems you are not clear on your role. Have you forgotten that these parents have hired you to care for their children? You are the sitter; they are the parents. You must feel quite secure in your employment to dismiss families for making their wishes known.

Reply

Reply

LOL! Even though I disagree with many of the providers who demand naptime, as a provider who does accomodate non-napping children, and works closely with families to meet the needs of their children, I find your post laughable.

Not one of my clients have hired me as their sitter. I do not take orders from them. I provide them with a parent policy handbook, a contract and we negotiate the needs of their child/family (they can take it or leave it) Other than deciding if THEY want to enroll or not, I make the final decisions. I have never dismissed a client due to not being able to negotiate their needs, BUT I would dismiss them in a hot second if they came to me and demanded that I do as they say.

And, yes, I AM quite secure in my employment. I have been doing this for 15 years, have not lost even ONE client due to anything other than moving (way) out of the area (I have had several families move and commute over an hour to get to me) am always operating at capacity and have a waitlist. So, yes, I am secure enough in my employment that if a parent ever treated me disrepectfully, as you have done with all of the providers on this forum, they's be shown the door.

Reply

Yep...I am with Crystal. My business, my house, my policies. If parents do not agree with how I run my business, then they will choose someplace else. I would also show "parent guest" to the door. I have never had a parent be so disrespectful to me. My DCP's and I work together for the good of thier children; they do not demand and dictate how things are going to happen in my home. And I also am definitely secure enough in my "employment" that I would not put up with disrespect or demands that do not fit MY home business.

Reply

Well said!

Reply

Oh, but you are correct. They are WISHES, not commands. I choose if I want to grant the wish or not. Just call me Jeanie!

Reply

I do not make children over 4 take a nap, I put the kids that don't need naps downstairs(( their are children sleeping in rooms down there also), and I turn the TV, on and they have coloring books and markers and crayons, and puzzles, and they are very quiet, and very good during nap time, and never come up and ask me for anything, they know that it is quiet time, and that it is a privledge that they can stay up. These children all get plenty of sleep at night, and they are old enough to stay up, my son was still napping at 4, but once I had a couple other kids that didn't need naps, I felt bad putting my own son down who was the same age, and my son would still fall asleep everyday when I would put him down, but he would also kick and turn in his bed for a good couple hours at night, and since hes stopped taking naps, hes out really fast, and he sleeps longer in the mornings. I have had parents tell me, when their child is starting to have hard times falling asleep at night, and I have no problem taking away naps, I say once they are 4 and old enough to understand they need to stay quiet, they can stay up, I really can't imagine any of my 5 yr olds sleeping for 2-3 hours at nap, One of them will fall asleep almost everyday for 20 minutes, a nice power nap, and a child this age, All i think they would neep would be a short power nap.
I think if a child is staying up until 1-2am that it would only be reasonable for the provider to try to help by taking away naps, whats the most important is the childs sleep at night, and if the naps are contributing to this, than why not try to help out for the child, and if this kid is in counseling, and their taking him to dr's, it sounds like they are really trying to help their child, and they are looking for help, I do think they should take a couple days off work, and try to get him on a no napping schedule, be at home with no errands or anything for a thurs-sun, back to daycare on monday.

Reply