Operating an Unlicensed Daycare

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I'll tell what makes it my business.....i have to pay taxes on my earnings. This daycare providers income is hers!!!!!!!!!! She drives a new car (a charger). I guess it pays well. That along with all the welfare she qualifies for because her income is not reported.....yeah, it makes me mad as hell!!!!!!!!!!

How do you know that she doesn't pay taxes? How do you know she receives welfare? Have you confirmed your statements with the appropriate agencies or are you making an asumption here?

Parents write off their childcare payments on their taxes. To do so, they need her SSN. Do you honestly think the IRS doesn't cross check to make sure she's reporting her income?

SIGH . . .

[GretasLittleFriends]

This is a story of a licensed facility that apparently didn't follow the rules, resulting in an accidental death of a toddler.
http://www.earlychildhoodfocus.org/a...ng_Death.shtml


This is a story of what I believe to be an unlicensed provider caring for and abusing an infant in the infants own home.
http://kstp.com/news/stories/s949827.shtml

Unfortunately horrible people are everywhere.

[mac60]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I'll tell what makes it my business.....i have to pay taxes on my earnings. This daycare providers income is hers!!!!!!!!!! She drives a new car (a charger). I guess it pays well. That along with all the welfare she qualifies for because her income is not reported.....yeah, it makes me mad as hell!!!!!!!!!!

Unfortunately you will find those that abuse the tax system in many professions, housekeeping jobs, window washing jobs, home assistant jobs, and I am sure there are many others. I have always done it legally.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

"People need to mind there business. If she is not bothering you, then why are you worried. Let that woman make her money. If she was abusing or neglecting the children, nobody would have anything to say. That's what is wrong with the world today, people report the wrong things."

First of all, get yourself a spellchecker.....it's THEIR not THERE. Further, unlicensed daycare cast a pall upon all the good care providers out there that follow the law. What's wrong with the world is people like you that think only certain laws and statutes are important. Operating an unlicensed day care is the equivalent of operating a restaurant without the proper safety and cleanliness guidelines. If the woman wants to "make her money" then let her comply with the same statutes and laws that licensed day care facilities must abide by.

If she is not bothering you or anything on your property, it should be of no concern to you. Obviously the parents' who are bringing their children to her daycare are aware of her being unlicensed and trust her completely or they wouldn't be leaving their children there. It's people like you that are nosey neighbors and probably don't have a job or a life and just want to ruin everyone else's thing. Just mind your business and let her run her business.

what are the laws to having a unlissensed day care in the state of tn

[Chickenhauler]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Mom/nurse/tax payer ,
Did you ever think that she gets assistance from the gov (I am assuming this is what you mean by Welfare) Because she just doesn't make enough,even with her daycare income?
I know someone who is a LISCENCED registerd daycare and very qualified,but because she is a signle mom and has a house payment,car,payment,insurance,etc..etc..etc..etc.. she still qualifies for assistance in some form or another ? I know becuase I used this person before and She has a tx id number .
IF I ever get the daycare I am dreaming of having one day, whether it is liscenced or not, I know I will pay my taxes because I believe in obeying the law. Don't judge everyone because there might be a few out there who might not be paying taxes,etc..

A Tax ID number does not mean someone is getting assistance payments, it means they are a business (either operating as a corp or sole proprietorship).

Tax ID numbers are issued to business's, not welfare recipients.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I'll tell what makes it my business.....i have to pay taxes on my earnings. This daycare providers income is hers!!!!!!!!!! She drives a new car (a charger). I guess it pays well. That along with all the welfare she qualifies for because her income is not reported.....yeah, it makes me mad as hell!!!!!!!!!!

Psst-I'm going to let you in on a little secret that some here will maybe flame me on (flame suit zipped up tight) IN HOME DAYCARES PAY LITTLE TO NO TAXES.

There, it's out in the open.

EVERYTHING is a tax write off-utilities, heat, water, power, garbage, mileage on the car, repairs and maintenance on the home, toys, apparatus, PETS, cleaning supplies, food, furniture, even the lawn mower and any repairs/supplies needed to run it.

Self employed persons only pay taxes on the PROFIT, not the GROSS REVENUE. Tally up the reciepts and subtract the expenses and VOILA, you're suddenly below the poverty level, and no tax is due.

Those who are self employed running a small business out of their home don't pay diddly squat for taxes. You'd be appalled if I showed you our taxes once.

[mac60]

I have been a provider for 10 years, and I have ALWAYS paid taxes. I pay federal, state, social security, city, and a school tax on my income. Yes, by the time I deduct what I can, I am just above poverty level wages. But think about it. Of the 14 hours each day that I am up and in my home, I am doing daycare related things or actually caring for daycare children at least 12 of them. Lights out at about 9:30, furnace/ac turnded down, etc. When you figure in the 40% of my utility bill that I can deduct, I am the one getting shorted. I use the majority of my heat/ac/electric, etc during daycare house, but I can't deduct all that I use.

For example: On a hot humid day here in the summer, I will have my air on all day long to where it is comfortable for the kids, maybe about 76 or 77. Kids leave at 5:15, we go to bed here about 9:30, and our air gets turned up to about 80 so it won't run thru the night unless it gets really hot. This is why I feel we don't get compensated truly for what we use.

[Chickenhauler]

Originally Posted by mac60

I have been a provider for 10 years, and I have ALWAYS paid taxes. I pay federal, state, social security, city, and a school tax on my income. Yes, by the time I deduct what I can, I am just above poverty level wages. But think about it. Of the 14 hours each day that I am up and in my home, I am doing daycare related things or actually caring for daycare children at least 12 of them. Lights out at about 9:30, furnace/ac turnded down, etc. When you figure in the 40% of my utility bill that I can deduct, I am the one getting shorted. I use the majority of my heat/ac/electric, etc during daycare house, but I can't deduct all that I use.

For example: On a hot humid day here in the summer, I will have my air on all day long to where it is comfortable for the kids, maybe about 76 or 77. Kids leave at 5:15, we go to bed here about 9:30, and our air gets turned up to about 80 so it won't run thru the night unless it gets really hot. This is why I feel we don't get compensated truly for what we use.

Either you're rolling in some serious revenue, or you need a new accountant-the amount of deductions allowed for a home based business are unbelievable if the accountant knows their tax law.

One major one that is overlooked is business mileage deduction, which for 2008 was 58.5 cents per mile when used for business purposes. Trip to the grocery store? Business. Toy store? Business. Training and certification? Business. It adds up fast, and if you keep an accurate journal, you'll find that an overwhelming majority of your miles is business related. Ten here, 20 there, and before you know it, you have a $5k+ deduction in mileage.

I always urge anyone who is operating a business to talk to a quality CPA who specializes in self employed persons. A good accountant will save you their fee in the first 15 minutes of the appointment.

You may feel you're getting the raw end of the stick on your power bill, but who else gets to write off their pets, lawn care, snow removal, furniture, carpets, etc on their personal home?

[FingerprintsHappen]

Psst-I'm going to let you in on a little secret that some here will maybe flame me on (flame suit zipped up tight) IN HOME DAYCARES PAY LITTLE TO NO TAXES.


Chickenhauler, I beg to differ. My husband claims 0 on his deductions AND pays an extra $100 /mo, PLUS we paid $3500 in April, all in taxes on my income. we are paying at a higher rate than if I was employed because self-employment taxes are higher than other rates. yes, I can write off part of my utilities, part of my mortgage interest, etc, but even with those and all the actual 100% business expenses (like infant toys- my youngest child is 14) I still paid an arm and a leg in tax this year
SOME OF US do things honestly

[mac60]

Originally Posted by Chickenhauler

Either you're rolling in some serious revenue, or you need a new accountant-the amount of deductions allowed for a home based business are unbelievable if the accountant knows their tax law.

One major one that is overlooked is business mileage deduction, which for 2008 was 58.5 cents per mile when used for business purposes. Trip to the grocery store? Business. Toy store? Business. Training and certification? Business. It adds up fast, and if you keep an accurate journal, you'll find that an overwhelming majority of your miles is business related. Ten here, 20 there, and before you know it, you have a $5k+ deduction in mileage.

I always urge anyone who is operating a business to talk to a quality CPA who specializes in self employed persons. A good accountant will save you their fee in the first 15 minutes of the appointment.

You may feel you're getting the raw end of the stick on your power bill, but who else gets to write off their pets, lawn care, snow removal, furniture, carpets, etc on their personal home?

I have 2 dogs, and I do NOT write off my pet expenses and never have. I do take mileage, my husband mows the lawn, I clear the snow, we have not bought new furniture since I have been doing dc or new carpets. I do have a CPA that does my taxes, and I DON"T make big bucks. Hell, I only get $85 per child for a fulltime kid here, well I should say $80, $85 is my new rate coming up.

[Chickenhauler]

Originally Posted by FingerprintsHappen

Psst-I'm going to let you in on a little secret that some here will maybe flame me on (flame suit zipped up tight) IN HOME DAYCARES PAY LITTLE TO NO TAXES.


Chickenhauler, I beg to differ. My husband claims 0 on his deductions AND pays an extra $100 /mo, PLUS we paid $3500 in April, all in taxes on my income. we are paying at a higher rate than if I was employed because self-employment taxes are higher than other rates. yes, I can write off part of my utilities, part of my mortgage interest, etc, but even with those and all the actual 100% business expenses (like infant toys- my youngest child is 14) I still paid an arm and a leg in tax this year
SOME OF US do things honestly

I do things honestly-my CPA knows the law, she's an expert at tax law. We have survived two audits in ten years, and no violations found. NOT A SINGLE ONE.

If you made some big bucks, then kudos to you.

But I'm betting you overpaid in taxes. I know all about self-employment taxes, I own my own business, along with the wife operating a daycare-we have no witholding in our household, since all income is derived from being self employed. With NO witholding, and gross sales rcpts exceeding 100k last year, we paid less in taxes than you, and it was all legit and honest.

You can automatically deduct ALL of your mortgage interest automatically, DC or not.

Originally Posted by mac60

I have 2 dogs, and I do NOT write off my pet expenses and never have. I do take mileage, my husband mows the lawn, I clear the snow, we have not bought new furniture since I have been doing dc or new carpets. I do have a CPA that does my taxes, and I DON"T make big bucks. Hell, I only get $85 per child for a fulltime kid here, well I should say $80, $85 is my new rate coming up.

Your CPA has failed you greatly. Pets, snowblowers, lawnmowers, weedwhackers, even a snow shovel and salt/sand for the sidewalk, upkeep of those items and their fuel are all tax deductible since you are running a business out of your home.

Pets are a teaching aid-you can use them to teach children how to interact nicely with animals.

There is sooooo much tax code, deductions, exemptions, etc that are overlooked it's not even funny.

[FingerprintsHappen]

We didn't overpay in taxes. According to the Copeland daycare tax book (cant' remember the title) I took all the deductions I was entitled to. And I had to pay way more than any other year. And that in spite of taking the % on a new furnace, new hot water heater, other appliance repairs, etc. My furniture is all old. my tv is not used for daycare, so cable can't be claimed (it's never on during the daycare day) We mow and shovel ourselves...
I did make good money- living in one of if not THE highest priced area of the country (MA, about 30 min west of Boston) daycare is pricey. So I make out. Works for me- I pay my teenage daughters to assist, and have hired 2 employees for the summer/fall of this year.

[Ms.Sue]

More children are hurt at licensed day care than at unlicensed day care.

First - what an uneducated statement to make, it's totally incorrect. Licensed daycares HAVE TO REPORT THEIR INJURIES --- UNLICENSED Never Do!!!
So, please stop with that statement.

Now, the 'piece' of paper generally adds to the true quality of a childcare business.
I have found in my 17 years of experience that people who do not bother to strive to reach other milestones in the childcare field - generally don't even meet the very basic standards.

With no license, there is no accountability! which equals Poor Safety Standards.
Now, granted - you will have a few that have unlicensed care and they are wonderful - but just think how much they could really improve and know how to communicate and relate to their customers - and run their businesses better.
Licensed daycare does not mean that all are 100% perfect. There are doctors that have 10 years of school and are awful, there are school principals that are arrested for sexual abuse - and they 'generally' have a masters degree........ good and bad is in ALL fields.

. .....Just because you have had someone from the state come in and tell you what needs to be done and how to run your business doesn't mean that all Unlicensed day care are bad or hurtful to children!!! .....

True, but ---- when you are held totally accountable and have to prove yourself and your business integrity to a state inspector --- you tend to make sure all food is properly balanced, tv is limited, preschool is taught, proper diaper changing procedures are followed, car seats are used, children are not left alone, children are not sleeping in room on other floors with out supervision, ratiio is addressed, medication is stored correctly and administered properly, the environment is clean and safe, and the provider's live-in boyfriend must have a back ground check to prove that they are not a sex offender - or their 18 year old son who lives at home !!! ((this happens all the time))).

So, that is just some of the ways that parents can be sure that these issues are addressed - correctly - by an outside inspector. It's best for the children --- it's not what's best for the insecure provider's ego.

[mac60]

The only things you mentioned that I don't deduct is my dog food and dog vet expenses. I will count those from now on.

[GretasLittleFriends]

Well said Ms. Sue!!


And just an FYI, you mentioned 18yr old child still living at home. Some states (such as Minnesota) require a background check for all people 13yrs of age and older living in the home and frequenting the home. My daughter is 13 and needed a background check. Also if she is going to have a friend over for any length of time or frequently they also have to have a background check. Fortunately I pay 1 fee for a 12 month period and that covers anyone and everyone that's checked in that 12 month period. I feel kind of bad explaining this policy to my daughter's friends' parents but they all have been understanding and appreciate the precautionary steps the state follows. Unlicensed homes in MN don't have to follow this requirement. Who knows who is in the homes when the children are present?!?!

[mac60]

See, this is where I disagree. If I have to submit my family, their friends, and anyone else who may be a constant visitor to my home to a background check, it is only FAIR that each and every daycare parent, their family members if they ever step foot into my home, and any other family member or friend of theirs who may pick up their child on my property...THEY SHOULD BE FORCED TO GO THRU THE SAME BACKGROUND CHECKS. It is not fair to force these rediculous things onto just the provider, as many other people...meaning parents.....walk into my front door daily.

And as far as reporting accidents at a daycare center....they do NOT have to, as my own child when he was 3 got his hand ran over and I was called, left work, and had to take him to the doctor for treatment....and I even got to pay the bill. So not every state is the same. And in my area, if you take your child to the doctor for an injury and submit it to your insurance, your insurance will contact you and ask how and where it will happen, and follow thru. It happened with my own son, an injury.

[mac60]

With no license, there is no accountability! which equals Poor Safety Standards.

THAT IS ABSOLUTELY POSITIVIELY AN UNTRUE STATEMENT.

I think there is a lot of hostility here towards those of us who do not have to be licensed by those of you who do. Sad, but true.

I would NEVER, REPEAT NEVER, do this job and be controled by the government. Hell, they do a horrendous job as it is without getting their nose in my affairs. I have parents in and out of my home all day, many times unannounced....they see my home, what we do, they know what their child eats each day, etc. Please don't judge the unlicended providers unless you know us personally. You have absolutely no idea what kind of environment we are providing, activities, etc.

[stimpson]

Have you all looked closely at some of the rants in this "conversation"?
Here is what I see:
It seems someone is irritated because her next-door neighbors home daycare business is causing traffic issues (and perhaps other issues) that she feels she should not have to contend with. So, rather than doing the civilized thing and walking over one day after care hours are over and politely addressing her concerns with them and trying to reach a compromise that everyone can live with, instead, we are going to see if we can "get them in trouble" with authorities.
Let's stop right there. Everything else is incidental and doesn't really have anything to do with the root cause of this whole thing. Licensed, unlicensed, laws, taxes, abuse, etc. is not really what any of this is about.
This is what it's about: Two wrongs don't make a right.
If the providers business is causing legitimate issues for her neighbor, that's wrong. If the neighbor is attempting to remedy that wrong by causing problems for the provider with authorities, that is also wrong. So, instead of ending up with a situation where everyone feels they've been dealt with fairly and they both work together to solve the problem, they end up with an angry mess that likely festers, gets worse, and ends up causing MORE problems or costing someone money or income.
C'mon folks! Doesn't anyone here see the forest instead of that big fat tree in the way?

There's always light at the end of the tunnel. The hard part is determining if that light is on the front of a locomotive.

[GretasLittleFriends]

I agree with Ms. Sue about the safety standards because I did provide care for my family and though I thought my house was safe there were all kinds of things that I had missed out on until the county came through. I however think that the "poor safety standards" are by NO means intentional. One example was the water temp was set too high.

Mac60- I agree with you about how ridiculous it is that my family and their friends who are here frequently have to be subjected to a background check. When I asked the county why not the kids' parents too, the licensor's response was that the parents typically just drop off and pick up where the friends and family members are in the house for long periods with the children. These laws are in place to protect the children, simply because they hadn't been in place and children were hurt/abused.

[GretasLittleFriends]

Oh, I forgot, I was also going to say that though I'm licensed, I'm not hostile (or don't intend to be) towards unlicensed daycares. Perhaps I'm slightly jealous that I am only able to take care of one family without my license, unlike some of you that can take care of up to 5+ kids without a license. I'll be honest. If that were the case for me, I'd likely not be licensed either. I agree the government getting involved can and does make it to be much more of a headache. I got my license for a few reasons. One is to be able to stay at home with my own children while they are growing up. Two is to provide quality care for more than just the one child (one family) I was taking care of. Three is because I love watching kids learn and grow. Fourth is to be able to afford to stay home with my children.

I do agree that unlicensed providers can and do provide excellent care, just like licensed providers can also be totally horrendous. I've recently had two families start up with me because their previous licensed providers where not children friendly at all. Sad thing is that these families came from two different providers. I live in a rural area, and for two providers to be uncaring is kind of frightening

[Chickenhauler]

Those of you who are unlicensed, how often do you have a water test performed? One of the overlooked things that licensed providers must pass, along with a background check (could be a pedo living in that DC home), water temp test, etc.

Here's another big question-how many unlicensed providers carry the necessary insurance coverage for operating a dc business out of their homes? You do know that in most states, if you operate a business like this out of your home, you are opening yourselves to large amounts of liability, and without the proper coverage, your homeowners can not only cancel coverage, but refuse to pay any claims in the DC because you were not insuring a business?

[mac60]

I am insured. We have city water and I know it is tested regularly.

Your dc parent could be a pedo too! Did you have background checks done on your parents?

[tymaboy]

I am Registered. In my area registered is in home child care & licensed is a facility. In my opinion being registered does not mean that I am the safer bet for the children. It is more for the parent thought of mind. It does not matter that I jump threw hoops to keep my registration number if I am the type of person to harm a child in any way it will happen whether I am registered or not. Pretty much the only thing that is different is that I have surprise inspections atleast once a yr & that I qualify for the food program & some grants that I would not if I was not registered. Being registered is just a false security for the parents. If I was not registered I would not have to take 12 or more hrs of classes a yr to keep my registration. I would still be the same type of provider thta I am now.

[Chickenhauler]

Originally Posted by mac60

I am insured. We have city water and I know it is tested regularly.

Your dc parent could be a pedo too! Did you have background checks done on your parents?

The big question is, are the DC parents left unattended with other DC children? They aren't in our home.

That's the underlying reason for the background checks.

DC Licensing is like driver licensing and testing-95% will pass, but it weeds out the unfit ones from putting people in danger.

I am a licensed provider and have been for 12 years and the things that make me upset about unlicensed provider's are that they take away the children that we could get as children. When you loose a family and need to replace that income alot of times people go to unlicensed providers because they will charge less. They do not have all the fees or classes that a licensed provider has to take. As a unlicensed provider they are only allowed to watch children from one family and they can still have up to 8 children as long as they are from one family and you can only have 2 children under the age of 2 and the number's are in total including your own children 8. 6 full time children 2 before and after school children except in the summer. I agree people should mind thier own business if there is no harm to the children, but without asking questions or seeing it first hand how are you to know. If it is an unlicensed daycare or licensed either way you never know how your children are being treated because you are not there to see it. You as a parent have to use common sense and gut feeling's when choosing a provider. Always get referrals and you can call the state and get background checks. Licensed providers have to give their fingerprints when they get licensed. Just remember that the children should always come first. They are the priority not your neighbor. So if they are illegal or harming the children yes they should be turned in. But if they are doing it the right way then leave them alone. As far as taxes you do not know if they are claiming or not so you have no right to complain unless you know they are'nt. But remember you chose to get licensed and pay your taxes to do it the legal way.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Running an unlicensed daycare does typically say "the type of care you do provide". If it is a state law that you MUST be licensed to run a daycare in your state, then you SHOULD be LICENSED. If you can break that law, what other laws could you be breaking??? It is not difficult to get daycare licensing. The law is there for a reason. It is to govern daycare providers so that they follow the rules and regulations for that business. The state has this law so that in case there is a problem with the care your child(ren) are receiving in a daycare, it can be handled. I myself, as a parent DO WANT A LICENSED DAYARE PROVIDER FOR MY CHILDREN. I am willing to pay the going rate or more for a licensed daycare provider just for the peace of mind of knowing that that provider and whoever is in her household that will be around my children have a complete criminal background check for the safety of my children. Why would anyone put their childs safety or life in someone else's hand without checking them out first. Being a licensed daycare provider, I at least know that the place has to be inspected for safety and that there will be random unnotified inspections that the provider will receive as well as having to go to classes to update her knowledge as being a daycare provider; such as CPR, First Aid, how to discipline, ect. And by the way, what reason would you not have as to getting licensed? Do you not want to claim your income at tax time? Wake up people, there alot of crazy nuts out there as it is, why would you even think about risking the safety of your child. I am not saying that all unlicensed daycare providers are this way but what is the downfall in NOT BEING LICENSED? Besides, being a licensed daycare provider will get you more business. When parents are looking for daycare they usually call the state licensing office for a list of providers in their area. And to be on the side of the licensed providers, I give them much credit for dealing with the crap that they have to go through in order to be a LIGITIMATE LICENSED DAYCARE PROVIDER. My neighbor is also a non-licensed daycare provider and it erks me to no end that she provides daycare to other peoples children when she neglects the 3 kids she has (ages 10, 6, ans 3). I can say this because she pawns her kids as well as her daycare kids off in my yard so that they can play with my children and I end up watching them so that they don't get hurt, while she sits on her A** all day with her husband (who doesn't work because he was fired for watching **** on the computer at his job). This is one of those reasons why I say GET A LICENSED DAYCARE PROVIDER so that everyone that is around your children can be checked out. Better to be safe then sorry. Your child only has 1 life!!! A caring mother in Laurel, Delaware.

I'm new to day care and no I am not licensed, nor do I plan to get licensed. And I certainly don't believe that a license has anything to do with the quality of care I will provide. I watch one child now, just one day a week. I am hoping to take in 2 children maximum because I believe in nurturing and teaching, not simply keeping children safe. I have two of my own and I feel that any more than 4 would compromise my ability to provide the type of care that I want to provide, though i realize it will limit my income. Do I believe there are sub-standard unlicensed providers. CERTAINLY. Just as I believe there are sub-standard licensed providers. Does anyone really believe that every licensed provider follows all the rules and if they ever break one they will absolutely get caught? That's like saying everyone with a drivers license follows every traffic law and if they ever speed they are certain to get ticketed. I can assure you based on my husband's driving that is not accurate.
I'm confused by the animosity towards those of us who opt not get licensed. As far as I'm concerned, it's a personal decision. If parents opt to forego my service due to a lack of license, that's their choice and I'm okay with that. Why does that bother people?
Also, I don't understand the basis for the assertion that an unlicensed provider doesn't pay taxes. I have a FEIN and report my income. The license has nothing to do with that.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

"People need to mind there business. If she is not bothering you, then why are you worried. Let that woman make her money. If she was abusing or neglecting the children, nobody would have anything to say. That's what is wrong with the world today, people report the wrong things."

First of all, get yourself a spellchecker.....it's THEIR not THERE. Further, unlicensed daycare cast a pall upon all the good care providers out there that follow the law. What's wrong with the world is people like you that think only certain laws and statutes are important. Operating an unlicensed day care is the equivalent of operating a restaurant without the proper safety and cleanliness guidelines. If the woman wants to "make her money" then let her comply with the same statutes and laws that licensed day care facilities must abide by.

Just because they are licensed doesnt mean they are good providers. The daycare provider that "accidently" sufficated one of her daycare children was a licensed provider. He wouldnt lay still at naptime so she put her casted foot on him. He died she didnt realize it till after naptime was over and he never got up. They said she didnt mean to kill him so ops she got off easy and now she has a daycare again. And if u havent noticed most of the licensed daycare providers are very expensive. Also if its a church or big corporate daycare they are 25% or higher than normal daycares. One near me I calculated made $12000 a month minimum thats over $600000 a year. they are considered nonprofit too. In the area where i live, that is a lot. Their prices are almost too much to afford. I know with my job I would pay them more for daycare than i make a week. thats sad. And with 4-c funds down theres no hope. the only hope i have is unlicensed providers.

[tinytotzdaycare]

I am in Iowa and you only have to be registered when you have 6 or more children, this includes your own that are NOT school age.

Some people cannot afford a licensed daycare. And most parents are not going to leave their kids with someone they do not know. So most likely the daycare provider is trusted and is known by the parent very well. I think people need to mind their own business too! Obviously, if you are be this nosey, maybe you need to get a job, or possible another job to keep you busier. Not everyone appeciates the licensed daycare setting! Not everyone can afford the licensed daycare setting. I was babysat by a wonderful older lady with other kids, she was a grandma, and great great role model. I ran in the green grass, climbed the apple trees, ran through the corn stalks, played with the rabbits they were raising, and ate fresh eggs, great homemade food! That was in the 70's. But, I think we need to get back to the basics. Everything in life should not be controlled by the government. Life was so much simpler when I was a little girl. I would rather my kids be able to be running outside playing with frogs, chasing butterflies and eating homemade food, then stuck in a daycare with the same routine everyday, and eating mac and chees, hotdogs, etc. Yes, I know that daycare teaches them allot of things for school, but non-licensed daycares can teach these things too!

Originally Posted by Unregistered

"People need to mind there business. If she is not bothering you, then why are you worried. Let that woman make her money. If she was abusing or neglecting the children, nobody would have anything to say. That's what is wrong with the world today, people report the wrong things."

First of all, get yourself a spellchecker.....it's THEIR not THERE. Further, unlicensed daycare cast a pall upon all the good care providers out there that follow the law. What's wrong with the world is people like you that think only certain laws and statutes are important. Operating an unlicensed day care is the equivalent of operating a restaurant without the proper safety and cleanliness guidelines. If the woman wants to "make her money" then let her comply with the same statutes and laws that licensed day care facilities must abide by.

You need to not be so critical! Too many laws, do not equal democracy! It equals the government running our so called free lives. If we as parents find someone that we trust, and have known for a long time, and know that the home is clean, and that our kids will be fed well and taken care of well, then we should be able to decide who watches our children. A stuffy ol' daycare with allot of kids running around with snotty noses, is not what I call clean! If you want everyone to bring their kids to a licensed daycare, then the prices need to drop. Because, if I had the option of a close friend or family watching my kids for less money. You know, that I will take my kids to the friend or family. And that should be up to the parent!

I think it is such crap that people don't know how to mind their own business. If your concerns are whether or not the place is safe...what draws you to that conclusion? I agree if the place seems very filthy, dirty, a dump, etc. Though if you can see there is no cause for concern. Mind your own business!!! The parents who put their kids there are the ones who have determined that that is the place for their kids. Are you saying the parents are not being parents? Are they not capable of making a decision for themselves where their children should be? MIND YOUR BUSINESS!

[jen]

Here is my big question...

Parents are well aware of whether or not their daycare is licensed or not. They chose a provider, they like him/her, like the way he/she cares for the kids...why is it anyone elses business?

Personally, I don't really need the governement to "help" me make decisions for my kids! Before I became a provider, a neighbor who was unlicensed cared for my son and I LOVED her!

That said, of course everyone needs to pay income taxes. Although, as a licensed provider, I've never had to pay in a cent. IF you do, you aint' doing it right!

Originally Posted by commonsense

Yes, you should care. If that person is running an unlicensed daycare, they most likely won't be following safety guidelines either. In this day and age, unfortunately, people are really messed up. If you have concerns. Call. The authorities would much rather check it out and it be fine then you not call and the children be not taken care of properly, or worse.

Please....what makes you think she needs to become a licensed child care provider to take of children in her home. It is not legal to take care of children in your home. I am a licensed child care provider and I have many friends and relatives who are not licesed and they are wonderful. Never judge a book by its cover?

I think the whole thing is crazy! In some states you can care for 5 kids without a license, where as in others only 2. So government gets to determine that the children in Iowa get to play with 4 friends where as the children in NY only get to play with 1 friend if they go to a provider that is unlicensed? The same thing with childcare ratios.

In some states 1:4 Infant ratios go until 18 or 24 months, while in others it stops at 12 months and jumps to 1:7. Who decided that the children who live in the states that jump to 1:7 ratios at 12 months need less attention that those who live in another state and get to keep their 1:4 ratio for an extra 6 months or a year?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I'll tell what makes it my business.....i have to pay taxes on my earnings. This daycare providers income is hers!!!!!!!!!! She drives a new car (a charger). I guess it pays well. That along with all the welfare she qualifies for because her income is not reported.....yeah, it makes me mad as hell!!!!!!!!!!

I want to respond to the comment you made. Not all daycare providers are like this lady. I run a daycare and I pay my taxes.

Rules to operating a licensed day care can be found at http://ohiochildcare.org

[melissa ann]

I have been doing childcare since March 2008. I am not licensed. However, I do pay taxes on that income and also take deductions. In my state, I can watch 3 children w/o being licensed. For me, I felt like that was a good number to watch w/o being too stressed out. With 3, I can give them proper one on one time plus they can play together w/o too much fighting and such. For me, it's not all about the $. It's giving proper care and attention to the children.

[mac60]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Rules to operating a licensed day care can be found at http://ohiochildcare.org

Like I have said before, the rules and regulations are so rediculous. Some of these items listed are just stupid for lack of better words.

[Chickenhauler]

Originally Posted by mac60

Like I have said before, the rules and regulations are so rediculous. Some of these items listed are just stupid for lack of better words.

Name some that you find stupid.

The irony is, that in one post, you will complain about how parents are crappy parents and don't even bother to dress their kids properly for the conditions, but then say how it's the parent's responsibility to insure that their daycare is safe.

For all the checks and inspections we have gone through with the county, we'd spend 6-8 hours going through the house, and several weeks waiting on the background checks that each family would perform when they enroll.

[seashell]

Originally Posted by Chickenhauler

Name some that you find stupid.

The irony is, that in one post, you will complain about how parents are crappy parents and don't even bother to dress their kids properly for the conditions, but then say how it's the parent's responsibility to insure that their daycare is safe.

For all the checks and inspections we have gone through with the county, we'd spend 6-8 hours going through the house, and several weeks waiting on the background checks that each family would perform when they enroll.

Stupid rule 1 - We need to have thermometers on the wall in each room occupied by the children at their hight, (3 feet max hight) to measure the temperature. Excuse me? Do you know how hard it is to keep the kids from pulling a glass and mercury thermometer off the wall and chewing on it? I tried hiding them behind the furniture. No deal. They have to be in clear sight. Is the temp that much cooler than it would be 2 feet higher?

Stupid rule 2 - Doors must be labled with exit signs. First of all, this is my home. Second of all, the kids can't read. 3rd if I don't know where the doors are in my own home, I'm in big trouble!

Stupid rule 3 - Cleaning supplies can not be kept in rooms occupied by the children. So how the hell am I supposed to disinfect the diaper table after use if I can't keep the solution near the changing table?

Stupid rule 4 - Trash cans can be no more than half full. Great, so I should leave the kids alone to take out the trash half way through the day? The cans have covers on them. Who gives a damn how much is in the can if the kids can't get at it?

Stupid rule 5 - Children must wear shoes and sox at all times. Yeah, you tell that to the 10 month old baby who is facinated with pulling them off or the 3 year olds who like to show off their painted toe nails.

Stupid rule 6 - My 17 year old son can't have friends over after school because they count toward my ratio?

Chickenhauler, why can't you just agree to disagree? It's a matter of personal opinion. I think your crazy for being licensed and you think Im crazy for not being licensed. Fine. It's a matter of opinion here based upon experience.

I respect your opinions on most matters, but you really seem to have it in for those of us who think the government is to involved.

[AmandasFCC]

Seashell, you're right, those are ridiculous rules. Maybe where Chickenhauler's at, licensing is a little more reasonable. I know here they seem to have a bit more common sense and to me, it made more sense to get licensed. As we've seen in a million posts before, licensing varies from place to place....

I personally like the idea of being licensed. I like being regulated. I'm a very rule oriented person, a little crazy maybe, but I like to have specific guidelines to operate by and to be checked up on, just to have that "Ok, for sure I'm doing alright" .... My daycare parents don't seem to care either way, it's more just for my own knowledge.

Everyone's different. I agree with you that we all have to agree to disagree. What works for me may not work for you.

And just another point... Whereas a lot of you have common sense in terms of regulations and will naturally do what is right and makes sense, a lot of others don't, and that's why I DO very much agree with licensing

[mac60]

Originally Posted by Chickenhauler

Name some that you find stupid.

The irony is, that in one post, you will complain about how parents are crappy parents and don't even bother to dress their kids properly for the conditions, but then say how it's the parent's responsibility to insure that their daycare is safe.

For all the checks and inspections we have gone through with the county, we'd spend 6-8 hours going through the house, and several weeks waiting on the background checks that each family would perform when they enroll.

Sorry, I don't ever recall saying my dc kids came dressed inappropriately. Like I have said, I can understand how frustrating it is to be a provider and have to be licensed. The government should not be a part of a parent's decision on who cares for their child.

[Chickenhauler]

Originally Posted by seashell

Stupid rule 1 - We need to have thermometers on the wall in each room occupied by the children at their hight, (3 feet max hight) to measure the temperature. Excuse me? Do you know how hard it is to keep the kids from pulling a glass and mercury thermometer off the wall and chewing on it? I tried hiding them behind the furniture. No deal. They have to be in clear sight. Is the temp that much cooler than it would be 2 feet higher?

Stupid rule 2 - Doors must be labled with exit signs. First of all, this is my home. Second of all, the kids can't read. 3rd if I don't know where the doors are in my own home, I'm in big trouble!

Stupid rule 3 - Cleaning supplies can not be kept in rooms occupied by the children. So how the hell am I supposed to disinfect the diaper table after use if I can't keep the solution near the changing table?

Stupid rule 4 - Trash cans can be no more than half full. Great, so I should leave the kids alone to take out the trash half way through the day? The cans have covers on them. Who gives a damn how much is in the can if the kids can't get at it?

Stupid rule 5 - Children must wear shoes and sox at all times. Yeah, you tell that to the 10 month old baby who is facinated with pulling them off or the 3 year olds who like to show off their painted toe nails.

Stupid rule 6 - My 17 year old son can't have friends over after school because they count toward my ratio?

Chickenhauler, why can't you just agree to disagree? It's a matter of personal opinion. I think your crazy for being licensed and you think Im crazy for not being licensed. Fine. It's a matter of opinion here based upon experience.

I respect your opinions on most matters, but you really seem to have it in for those of us who think the government is to involved.

Out of that entire list, there are only two we have to comply with is the cleaning supplies, but they have to stored out of reach or in a locked (keyed) cabinet. Out of reach means overhead, like the height of the upper kitchen cabinets.

Our trash cans have to have covers, also.

[sarahtheresa02]

This topic really has me going...

I am an unlicensed care provider. I am "allowed" by our state to care for 6 or less children without being required to obtain a license. I have 6 children in my care. They are not all here at the same time so I don't feel that I am in a position to be overwhelmed or taking on too much.

I do believe that licensed or unlicensed should not be an issue between providers. I do however believe that it SHOULD be an issue for parents. I want to share a little story...

I received a phone call from a couple looking for childcare for their 16 mo old daughter. They were conducting multiple interviews with providers and wanted to set up a time to come over. The mom said that she had many questions but wanted to discuss them in person. That I understand as I wouldnt want to waste my time asking questions to find that the person lives in a dump. Anyway... mom and dad and baby arrived at my house. First question they ask is if I was state certified. I said that I was not. She said that was very important to them. However they allowed the interview to continue. They took a tour of my home... not just the daycare portion. They met my husband and children. I gave them a copy of my handbook with references and they left saying they would let me know either way. I didn't expect to see them again.

They called me back a week later and said that if I still had a spot they would like to enroll their daughter. I said I still had a position and they started her the next Monday. Out of curiosity on her first day I asked her parents why they had chosen me over the other providers. Her father said they had interviewed about 15 providers licensed and otherwise and were most satisfied with my home. They said it was cleaner then most of the other places and and our family was very inviting and they felt comfortable and "at home". Licensing became a moot point for them.

Long story short Parents take their kids where they are most comfortable and where they feel that their kids will get the best care.

** One other point... someone said that licensed facilities receive more complaints and have more reported incidents of abuse, neglect blah blah blah than unlicensed facilities... this is true only because you can not report what you are not aware of and since they are unlicensed there is no way to accurately make an estimate**

Anyway.. enough of my rant.

I just had to write a note saying how funny it is that this discussion has been going on for over a year on this board. This will be debated till the end of time. I am a licensed daycare provider but I know and even give out some names of unlicensed providers. I am concerend only for the welfare of the children. I am not in any way mad or upset that someone is not licensed. I go with the its not your concern unless they are breaking the laws in your state. If they are then call the proper authorities and be done with it. Needless bickering is for children and not for grown adults.

I just turned in a resident in my town for operating an unlicensed daycare - I inspect daycares in Massachusetts as part of my job. This woman and her husband own a nice home and have two college kids. He, the husband works outside the home, full-time and she has five or six unrelated daycare kids at her house full time, Monday thru Friday. She has a pool, not fenced in and an unfenced yard.

Here in Mass., daycare rules are very strict, for a reason - the state runs Cori and Sori checks, inspects playground equipment - pools, everything! In Mass you also have to carry hefty liability insurance which is expensive. The State promptly came to her house and shut her down. (I knew she was unlicensed because I did my homework and called the State first) I hope she incurred a hefty fine as well. Who in their right mind would run an unlicensed daycare and care for other's children? Full-time daycare in Mass. runs $300 and up per child - I'd like to make about 60 to 70K, tax free, per year.

My son, who is in college, pays 43k per year to go to school - my husband and I have taken out huge loans to help him out and we both work full time and pay huge taxes. It's called greed, plain and simple and a lot of people think they are above the law. Shame on the parents of these children, as well, for not checking to see if this daycare was licensed in the first place. I stewed for about a year about this before I called the state. There is no excuse for this.

[GretasLittleFriends]

Ok, I realize that this person is unregistered and they chose to hide behind that label for a reason. I do find my self frustrated with this post. I am licensed and have mixed feelings about being licensed.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

1.I just turned in a resident in my town for operating an unlicensed daycare - I inspect daycares in Massachusetts as part of my job. This woman and her husband own a nice home and have two college kids. He, the husband works outside the home, full-time and she has five or six unrelated daycare kids at her house full time, Monday thru Friday. She has a pool, not fenced in and an unfenced yard. 2.Here in Mass., daycare rules are very strict, for a reason - the state runs Cori and Sori checks, inspects playground equipment - pools, everything! In Mass you also have to carry hefty liability insurance which is expensive. The State promptly came to her house and shut her down. (I knew she was unlicensed because I did my homework and called the State first) 3.I hope she incurred a hefty fine as well. 4.Who in their right mind would run an unlicensed daycare and care for other's children? 5.Full-time daycare in Mass. runs $300 and up per child - I'd like to make about 60 to 70K, tax free, per year. 6.My son, who is in college, pays 43k per year to go to school - my husband and I have taken out huge loans to help him out and we both work full time and pay huge taxes. 7.It's called greed, plain and simple and a lot of people think they are above the law. 8.Shame on the parents of these children, as well, for not checking to see if this daycare was licensed in the first place. 9.I stewed for about a year about this before I called the state. There is no excuse for this.

1.I find it very hard to believe that any person now a days has a pool that is not fenced in an unfenced yard. That is merely a law suit waiting to happen. Not to mention every neighborhood critter would be in that pool. Although, wondering if this is a technicality. I too have a pool and an unfenced yard. My pool at the deepest isn't even 8 inches. We have a yard that is over 5 acres, and the play area is behind the house which is over 100 yards from the road.

2.What are Cori and Sori checks? Most states require you to carry daycare liability insurance in order to be licensed. And honestly it's not that expensive. I paid less than $300 for a very large detailed policy.

3.It is not very nice of you to wish ill against someone else!! As a matter of fact, it seems rather childish.


4.Lots of people run unlicensed day-cares for others' children. When I used to live in Oregon I worked in a different town from where I lived. I had a friend who watched my daughter 3 days a week and I watched her three girls one day a week. It was a great barter. I wasn't licensed and neither was she.


5.How do you know they don't pay taxes? Do you work for the IRS? Have you audited them?

6.First off, congrats to your son for going to college. Lots of people go to college. The woman who's daycare you had shut down had TWO college aged children. There are ways to pay for college without taking out loans, believe me I know. I was a single mom, living on my own and managed to pay my own way through college without ever having to take out a single student loan. There are grants, scholarships, not to mention government/military benefits that are amazing. The military actually PAID me to go to college. When I factored in the GI bill along with the tuition reimbursement if I kept my grades above a C. Not only did it cover my tuition and book costs, I had extra money in my pocket. Plus I had a part-time job one weekend a month and two weeks a year. You shouldn't have to pay huge taxes at the end of the year if you have a good accountant. There should be education credits you qualify for, among other things. No pity from me to you.

7.I wouldn't call making a living greed. Well, maybe you're right, maybe it is greed, but no more so than the next person. It's the want of material items; a house, food, clothing, electricity. If one wasn't greedy and could learn to live without these things then they wouldn't have to work for that $$.

8.Apparently the parents felt their children were safe in this environment, otherwise they wouldn't have left them in that lady's care... I wouldn't shame the parents.


9.I would say shame on you instead. Why did it take you about a year to decide this wasn't a safe place for children. You said in the beginning that you inspect day-cares as part of your job. Wouldn't that require you to notify the state immediately if something was unsafe or there was a problem with a daycare?

Ugh!!!

[Former Teacher]

I TOTALLY agree with your post, (it would just make this reply to long haha).

Anyway I agree with you. However that is why from now on I am REFUSING to respond to people who are not registered. I have said it before, if they can't be bothered to sign in, I can't be bothered to deal with them either.

I think it's people like the OP who like to post things just to get us upset, aggravated, etc...just to see what we will say and how we will react. More or less to get a response from us.

That being said, I too have my own opinions and thoughts about that poster. However going back to my refusing to respond policy, I am keeping my mouth shut.

It's people like the OP that want to get a wile up our noses. Well they won't get one from me!

[GretasLittleFriends]

I didn't realize how long my reply was until just now when I scrolled back up.

[jen]

Originally Posted by GretasLittleFriends

I didn't realize how long my reply was until just now when I scrolled back up.

LOL! Good for you! Well written! I was just going to say "get a life..."

Yours was much better!