Sandbox Woes

[Countrygal]

I made a wonderful sandbox for the kiddos - painted a tractor tire great bright colors and a mom helped me fill it with sand - put in trucks, buckets, digging tools - and in three minutes they were throwing it. I've had this issue every single time I let them play with sand. Let's see - about 20 times now. Every time they get it taken away for the day, second offense for a week. This time I got fed up and they haven't played in it since.

How do you teach 4yos that throwing sand is NOT ACCEPTABLE????

You all have such wonderful ideas and suggestions!

[daycare]

we play in the sandbox 3 times a day...

Sand stays in the sandbox...
You throw it or remove it from the sandbox you are done for that play period. I will allow for them to try again at the second play time period. If they do it again, they are done for the entire day....

I always give them the opportunity to show me at each play period that they CAN follow the simple rules. If not, then they simply cannot play in the sandbox.

I think that if you take it away for such a long time frame, like days or week, then they don't get the chance to learn to play in it. They do need to be reminded of the rules each and every time before they go in.

I say, where does the sand stay? they will tell me in the box. Then I will ask them, do we throw sand? and they say no, sand stays on the ground.....

[Blackcat31]

Originally Posted by daycare

Sand stays in the sandbox...
You throw it or remove it from the sandbox you are done for that play period. I will allow for them to try again at the second play time period. If they do it again, they are done for the entire day....

This. Rinse and repeat until they get it.

[Countrygal]

Thanks, Daycare and BC, I was wondering about that. I just am getting so tired of them failing at obedience. And yes, I remind them every.single.time. But within minutes they are throwing it. I don't think they have succeeded in playing in it nicely even once (I had a different sandbox before, not as nice - I thought a bigger one would help). I might give your advice a try. Sometimes I just get so tired of this. My child(ren) has never been as disobedient as the dc kids are. EVER. There are only three plus mine, so what one does they all do. I also get upset because the youngest is 3 1/2 and I just feel they should be better behaved at their age. And I work and work and just get them to where they are improving and we get a long weekend..... right back to square one. GRRRRRRR Sorry - turned into a rant.

[beachgrl]

If mine dont play properly, i tell them the rule again, and then if it happens again, i tell them to walk away, that they are all done..they need lots of repeating but also quick and logical/consistent consequences and they will learn. Mine hardly ever throw it, they are always taking it somewhere else lol

[Hunni Bee]

Originally Posted by Countrygal

Thanks, Daycare and BC, I was wondering about that. I just am getting so tired of them failing at obedience. And yes, I remind them every.single.time. But within minutes they are throwing it. I don't think they have succeeded in playing in it nicely even once (I had a different sandbox before, not as nice - I thought a bigger one would help). I might give your advice a try. Sometimes I just get so tired of this. My child(ren) has never been as disobedient as the dc kids are. EVER. There are only three plus mine, so what one does they all do. I also get upset because the youngest is 3 1/2 and I just feel they should be better behaved at their age. And I work and work and just get them to where they are improving and we get a long weekend..... right back to square one. GRRRRRRR Sorry - turned into a rant.

I definitely feel you. I'm starting to be a hard-a** about stuff like that. I don't mind giving reminders, but this "I'm going to do what I want" stuff is wack .

Finger goes in milk. "Don't stick your finger in the cup, it will spill."

Finger goes in milk again. Milk goes down the drain.

[mac60]

And this is why I have never had a sandbox, I didn't have one for my own kids. Messy, becomes a kitty litter box for the strays,etc. And really, at 4 yrs old they should get it the first time, and if they don't they can watch. It drives me nuts the daily repeating of the rules for outside.

[Countrygal]

Originally Posted by Hunni Bee

I definitely feel you. I'm starting to be a hard-a** about stuff like that. I don't mind giving reminders, but this "I'm going to do what I want" stuff is wack .

Finger goes in milk. "Don't stick your finger in the cup, it will spill."

Finger goes in milk again. Milk goes down the drain.

This is exactly my kids. DCG got in her van at p/u yesterday and mom said "let dcb shut the door today - he likes to do it,too" Dcg shuts the door. Dcm tells dcg to open door, she "can't reach it" this time. Dcm opens door. Dcb shuts door. IMMEDIATELY dcg opens door and shuts it again with this totally smug, "see, I can get away with it" look on her face. Dcm says"I guess she could open the door" and that's it.

I guess I have outlived my life..... IMO, kids should not get away with these kinds of behavior. Honestly, if it had been mine it would have been an immediate spanking. It was an act of outright defiance. I have quite a bit of trouble with this dcg and obedience.

Let me give you an example and what I did - maybe a specific example would help.

Yesterday we played with squirt guns - a special treat. I went over the rules. No spraying in the face and no drinking out of the gun. I gave two reminders during the play time. Right at the END of the playtime the dcg drank out of her gun. Now, we were using a mop bucket (I had scrubbed it, but still....) for the water and the guns were NOT new..... But she did this AS we were putting them away for the day. No chance of just "taking them away". Let me add she knew exactly what she was doing. That's why she did it when she did because she knew I'd take it away if she did it any sooner. If I turn my back or don't watch her for a second, this is how she is.

At first I was thinking of making her sit out next time we took out the guns but decided she needed something more immediate. So she didn't get the brownie everyone else had after supper.

What would you have done in this case?

[Heidi]

Originally Posted by Countrygal

This is exactly my kids. DCG got in her van at p/u yesterday and mom said "let dcb shut the door today - he likes to do it,too" Dcg shuts the door. Dcm tells dcg to open door, she "can't reach it" this time. Dcm opens door. Dcb shuts door. IMMEDIATELY dcg opens door and shuts it again with this totally smug, "see, I can get away with it" look on her face. Dcm says"I guess she could open the door" and that's it.

I guess I have outlived my life..... IMO, kids should not get away with these kinds of behavior. Honestly, if it had been mine it would have been an immediate spanking. It was an act of outright defiance. I have quite a bit of trouble with this dcg and obedience.

Let me give you an example and what I did - maybe a specific example would help.

Yesterday we played with squirt guns - a special treat. I went over the rules. No spraying in the face and no drinking out of the gun. I gave two reminders during the play time. Right at the END of the playtime the dcg drank out of her gun. Now, we were using a mop bucket (I had scrubbed it, but still....) for the water and the guns were NOT new..... But she did this AS we were putting them away for the day. No chance of just "taking them away". Let me add she knew exactly what she was doing. That's why she did it when she did because she knew I'd take it away if she did it any sooner. If I turn my back or don't watch her for a second, this is how she is.

At first I was thinking of making her sit out next time we took out the guns but decided she needed something more immediate. So she didn't get the brownie everyone else had after supper.

What would you have done in this case?

I am waiting for the answers on this one! You probably shouldn't have given this example under a full moon.


Honestly, this is a huge part of the reason I termed my fearsome foursome. The "I dont HAVE to do what you say" attititude that is totally acceptable at home. 4x over it's spilled over to here.

I don't know if I have any advice for you...I will ponder it This IS the same little angel who recently ripped up those lacing cards, right?

[Countrygal]

Originally Posted by Heidi

I am waiting for the answers on this one! You probably shouldn't have given this example under a full moon.


Honestly, this is a huge part of the reason I termed my fearsome foursome. The "I dont HAVE to do what you say" attititude that is totally acceptable at home. 4x over it's spilled over to here.

I don't know if I have any advice for you...I will ponder it This IS the same little angel who recently ripped up those lacing cards, right?

Yes, and pushed dcb off the side of the slide...... I am at my wits end. I know what she needs, but I'm not allowed.....

[countrymom]

Originally Posted by daycare

we play in the sandbox 3 times a day...

Sand stays in the sandbox...
You throw it or remove it from the sandbox you are done for that play period. I will allow for them to try again at the second play time period. If they do it again, they are done for the entire day....

I always give them the opportunity to show me at each play period that they CAN follow the simple rules. If not, then they simply cannot play in the sandbox.

I think that if you take it away for such a long time frame, like days or week, then they don't get the chance to learn to play in it. They do need to be reminded of the rules each and every time before they go in.

I say, where does the sand stay? they will tell me in the box. Then I will ask them, do we throw sand? and they say no, sand stays on the ground.....

thats what I do EXCEPT yesterday one of the littles was throwing the sand on herself and calling for dog to come and lick it off, it was so funny, i was dying of laughter.

[Blackcat31]

Originally Posted by Countrygal

I know what she needs, but I'm not allowed.....

Originally Posted by Countrygal

Let me give you an example and what I did - maybe a specific example would help.

Yesterday we played with squirt guns - a special treat. I went over the rules. No spraying in the face and no drinking out of the gun. I gave two reminders during the play time. Right at the END of the playtime the dcg drank out of her gun. Now, we were using a mop bucket (I had scrubbed it, but still....) for the water and the guns were NOT new..... But she did this AS we were putting them away for the day. No chance of just "taking them away". Let me add she knew exactly what she was doing. That's why she did it when she did because she knew I'd take it away if she did it any sooner. If I turn my back or don't watch her for a second, this is how she is.

At first I was thinking of making her sit out next time we took out the guns but decided she needed something more immediate. So she didn't get the brownie everyone else had after supper.

What would you have done in this case?

Ah Hun, you are waaaaay nicer than I would have been. I would have done the no brownie consequence AND she would have not been allowed to play with the squirt guns the next 2 times we had them out.

I deal with lot of negative behaviors from both children and parents () but I do NOT deal with disobedience simply because the parent has tailored the world around the child's wants and NOT THEIR NEEDS.

Uh uh, no way Jose`...Deliberate actions like hers would be nipped in the bud IMMEDIATELY. Perfectly understandable from a toddler learning about the world and boundaries around them but not from an older child who does that kind of thing on purpose.

[Heidi]

Originally Posted by Blackcat31

Ah Hun, you are waaaaay nicer than I would have been. I would have done the no brownie consequence AND she would have not been allowed to play with the squirt guns the next 2 times we had them out.

I deal with lot of negative behaviors from both children and parents () but I do NOT deal with disobedience simply because the parent has tailored the world around the child's wants and NOT THEIR NEEDS.

Uh uh, no way Jose`...Deliberate actions like hers would be nipped in the bud IMMEDIATELY. Perfectly understandable from a toddler learning about the world and boundaries around them but not from an older child who does that kind of thing on purpose.

Black Cat is my Minnesota Twin!!!!

[Hunni Bee]

Originally Posted by Countrygal

This is exactly my kids. DCG got in her van at p/u yesterday and mom said "let dcb shut the door today - he likes to do it,too" Dcg shuts the door. Dcm tells dcg to open door, she "can't reach it" this time. Dcm opens door. Dcb shuts door. IMMEDIATELY dcg opens door and shuts it again with this totally smug, "see, I can get away with it" look on her face. Dcm says"I guess she could open the door" and that's it.

I guess I have outlived my life..... IMO, kids should not get away with these kinds of behavior. Honestly, if it had been mine it would have been an immediate spanking. It was an act of outright defiance. I have quite a bit of trouble with this dcg and obedience.

Let me give you an example and what I did - maybe a specific example would help.

Yesterday we played with squirt guns - a special treat. I went over the rules. No spraying in the face and no drinking out of the gun. I gave two reminders during the play time. Right at the END of the playtime the dcg drank out of her gun. Now, we were using a mop bucket (I had scrubbed it, but still....) for the water and the guns were NOT new..... But she did this AS we were putting them away for the day. No chance of just "taking them away". Let me add she knew exactly what she was doing. That's why she did it when she did because she knew I'd take it away if she did it any sooner. If I turn my back or don't watch her for a second, this is how she is.

At first I was thinking of making her sit out next time we took out the guns but decided she needed something more immediate. So she didn't get the brownie everyone else had after supper.

What would you have done in this case?

"Oh my, DCG, it looks like you're not playing with the toys very nicely. I dont think you will be playing with anymore toys today. Maybe tomorrow you can try again".

[christinaskids]

I "ground" my older kids about 3 on up. I feel like it works the best for me and I have one child that has anger issues and he has hit his sister so I have grounded him from playing outside for a few days which he hated. Four is about the age that grounding and taking away privledges becomes appropriate.

[My3cents]

I have a sand table and a sand box and a water table. I use colored sand in the table and just put a little in it at a time, with small items. When they start to dump the sand on the grass, sand table is done. It is light and moveable, so if they don't leave it alone- I move it. my kids are all two and under. Sand has been a wonderful thing along with rice and oatmeal and any other thing I can think of to put in my sensory table- it teaches dexterity with using spoon for meals. The kids love it. Highly supervised. My sensory table goes outside in the summer and inside in the winter.

My table has two separated sections so I put two colors of sand and expect them to be mixed. They love this-

I am a messy provider- I like to do the things that get kids involved using all the senses and arts. Everything cleans up so why not! I tell my parents send your kiddo's in play clothes you never know what we are going to do for the day.

My boxes have covers--- no kitty turds thank you anyway

[My3cents]

Originally Posted by Countrygal

I made a wonderful sandbox for the kiddos - painted a tractor tire great bright colors and a mom helped me fill it with sand - put in trucks, buckets, digging tools - and in three minutes they were throwing it. I've had this issue every single time I let them play with sand. Let's see - about 20 times now. Every time they get it taken away for the day, second offense for a week. This time I got fed up and they haven't played in it since.

How do you teach 4yos that throwing sand is NOT ACCEPTABLE????

You all have such wonderful ideas and suggestions!

wanted to add take out the digging tools and put pouring items, like measuring cups, cups, spoons that type of thing instead. Show them how to transfer sand from one thing to another. Funnels. choose your tools carefully- that can make a difference. Take the child that is not using it correct away. Even at that age highly supervise- sand is messy and it does tend to find its way into eyes at times. You have to really guide the kids with this. Another help is to limit it to small groups at a time. two-three peeps at one time. Don't throw sand!!! Remove, rinse and repeat- Open it to the kids when your feeling it- some days dealing with sand is just not something I want to do along with all the other things to do for the day- This will make it a treat, privilege to use. Best-

[Heidi]

Originally Posted by My3cents

wanted to add take out the digging tools and put pouring items, like measuring cups, cups, spoons that type of thing instead. Show them how to transfer sand from one thing to another. Funnels. choose your tools carefully- that can make a difference. Take the child that is not using it correct away. Even at that age highly supervise- sand is messy and it does tend to find its way into eyes at times. You have to really guide the kids with this. Another help is to limit it to small groups at a time. two-three peeps at one time. Don't throw sand!!! Remove, rinse and repeat- Open it to the kids when your feeling it- some days dealing with sand is just not something I want to do along with all the other things to do for the day- This will make it a treat, privilege to use. Best-

Country Gal only has 3 kids (plus her grandson, who is 5). I would think that by well over 3 they can listen. These are not toddlers..the youngest is 3 1/2 I beleive....

I'm not picking on your answer at all I think she's a little past the "watch them every second" stage. At 3 1/2 and up, they should know some boundries already. I'm not saying don't supervise them...just that we should not have to intervene in every minute of play.

I dont' think their ages is in her post, so I thought I'd clarify...

[My3cents]

Originally Posted by Heidi

Country Gal only has 3 kids (plus her grandson, who is 5). I would think that by well over 3 they can listen. These are not toddlers..the youngest is 3 1/2 I beleive....

I'm not picking on your answer at all I think she's a little past the "watch them every second" stage. At 3 1/2 and up, they should know some boundries already. I'm not saying don't supervise them...just that we should not have to intervene in every minute of play.

I dont' think their ages is in her post, so I thought I'd clarify...

I find with kids and sand- highly supervised activity. I don't care how old they are. The older kids can be worse then the younger ones. It is different, it is not like your at the beach with your own child. I agree with you they SHOULD know but... just take it away if it is not being used right. Throw in little stuff to play with too- another idea, esp for the older kids. They will take a car and make roads, and go on for hours- all depending upon the child. Some kids- it is not at all their thing.

I don't care if your picking on my post or not......not a big deal. I was trying to help and voice what works for me-

[Heidi]

Originally Posted by My3cents

I find with kids and sand- highly supervised activity. I don't care how old they are. The older kids can be worse then the younger ones. It is different, it is not like your at the beach with your own child. I agree with you they SHOULD know but... just take it away if it is not being used right. Throw in little stuff to play with too- another idea, esp for the older kids. They will take a car and make roads, and go on for hours- all depending upon the child. Some kids- it is not at all their thing.

I don't care if your picking on my post or not......not a big deal. I was trying to help and voice what works for me-

no...I definately wasn't picking on you....

I know Country in "real life" and I know how frustrated she is. I was just feeling empathy for her and wanted to make sure you knew all the circumstances.

It seems like her and I have had some of the same suprises going back to this after a long break. We remember it being easier, and it seems the kids used to respect us (the adults) more. It's a shock to us that they require so much intervention. Both her and I have raised now grown children and done dc before, comming back to it last year. Things have changed!

[jojosmommy]

For the sandbox issue, I would do 1 kid at a time (lame yes) while they practice how to play in the sandbox. Each child will get their own turn to practice alone. After a few indiv times (maybe over a few days) I would allow a second friend- only one who can be trusted- to join. 2 friends enjoying the sandbox. I find my kids break the rules when there are too many involved in an activity. Later I would allow a 3rd if room in the sandbox permits. Any sand throwing, everyone is done for the day. Start over the next day with one or two.


For the other issue- plain and simple disobedience, I have two of those here now. Same family, two years apart. I usually say "Oh MAN! You were doing so good, but since you can't control yourself you need to go read a book. I don't want you mistreating (insert next toy's name here) " Then I get out the best toy we have (whatever they LOVE to play) and allow that child to see how kids who can listen and control their implulses get to play. Pretty obvious that you can choose to do what you want but you have to pay the price here.

And I agree that it is my job to watch the kids but by 3 1/2-4 they should be old enough to follow the rules/use materials appropriately without me having to help them hand over hand.

[Countrygal]

Originally Posted by My3cents

wanted to add take out the digging tools and put pouring items, like measuring cups, cups, spoons that type of thing instead. Show them how to transfer sand from one thing to another. Funnels. choose your tools carefully- that can make a difference. Take the child that is not using it correct away. Even at that age highly supervise- sand is messy and it does tend to find its way into eyes at times. You have to really guide the kids with this. Another help is to limit it to small groups at a time. two-three peeps at one time. Don't throw sand!!! Remove, rinse and repeat- Open it to the kids when your feeling it- some days dealing with sand is just not something I want to do along with all the other things to do for the day- This will make it a treat, privilege to use. Best-

I do have the other toys ready for the sand box, but like I said we had JUST put it in. It was the first time they even got to touch it.

Actually, I did take out the digging toys (except the trucks).

[Countrygal]

I so want to thank each and every one of you for taking the time to give me your thoughts! You all are the greatest!

Ideas seem to have run the gammut - from not taking things away for longer than a short time to taking them away for several days to grounding! Too bad these kids don't come with instructions, ain't it???

Anywho - I kinda take BC's track. And I liked the idea of grounding. I may start that with the two older ones. They are both well able to understand the concept. The other 4yo the other ideas still work - removing him, etc.

jojos you said: "For the sandbox issue, I would do 1 kid at a time (lame yes) while they practice how to play in the sandbox. Each child will get their own turn to practice alone. After a few indiv times (maybe over a few days) I would allow a second friend- only one who can be trusted- to join. 2 friends enjoying the sandbox. I find my kids break the rules when there are too many involved in an activity. Later I would allow a 3rd if room in the sandbox permits. Any sand throwing, everyone is done for the day. Start over the next day with one or two." I had to laugh because I've actually done this with them with their new play yard that they were destroying. I only let them in two children at a time and the other two had "ground sitting" play outside the play yard, then we'd switch out. It did seem to work pretty well, at least it helped me keep my sanity if nothing else!

What ever happened to the days when kids just learned to mind???

[Blackcat31]

Originally Posted by Countrygal

What ever happened to the days when kids just learned to mind???

Somewhere along the lines someone taught them that they have choices in EVERY matter.