Daycare.com ForumDaycare Insurance Daycare Insurance LIST YOUR DAYCARE!

FIND A DAYCARE!

Facebook


Go Back   Daycare.com Forum > Main Category > Daycare Center and Family Home Forum

Daycare Center and Family Home Forum Daycare Center and Family Home owners, Directors, Operators and Assistants should post and ask questions here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-12-2013, 06:20 AM
Trummynme's Avatar
Trummynme Trummynme is offline
Grade eh Yooper
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,201
Default Daycare Shut Down After Infant Death

Updated part .

The child died on Sep 10th. Looks like an autopsy was done.

Article from Sep 11th: http://www.mlive.com/news/muskegon/i..._at_in-ho.html

This article gives a little bit more info of violations & revoking her license: http://www.grandhaventribune.com/article/647581

The more detailed article has the full report available as a pdf that you can download.

Original Post:

http://touch.woodtv.com/10000/113362067

The title says it all.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-12-2013, 06:34 AM
Maria2013's Avatar
Maria2013 Maria2013 is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,028
Default

we do not know what really killed that baby, I feel for all involved here
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-12-2013, 06:42 AM
Josiegirl's Avatar
Josiegirl Josiegirl is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Right here
Posts: 1,272
Default

Such a tragedy and scary for any dcp to read. Are they doing an autopsy or would they even know if the med. caused his death? So many things wrong with that picture.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-12-2013, 06:55 AM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

the article didn't say if baby was placed on stomach or back
do you know how the baby was sleeping?
also I have given my own babies that same amount of tylenol at this age(per Dr. instructions) I think it had more to do with the mattress, temp of the room, lack of air flow, probably sids..but really sad no matter the cause
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-12-2013, 07:09 AM
Mom2TLE's Avatar
Mom2TLE Mom2TLE is online now
New Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Idaho
Posts: 95
Default

I had a mom come in on Thurs and tell me DCB 6 months had not been sleeping well. She thought either a cold or teething so she brought in a bottle of Tylenol for me to give him to help him sleep. I told her I wasn't comfortable giving him something for the sole purpose of helping him sleep. I read this and am so glad I stood behind my morals and did not give it to him. You never know what reaction a child will have to any medication even after they have had it before.
What I am surprised about is the information cards and missing some and that this particular child's name was on another child's card. So many things could have gone wrong on so many levels because of this alone. She was over group size and ratios. This is so sad and my heart breaks for that mama that will never get to see her LO again.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-12-2013, 07:29 AM
MyAngels's Avatar
MyAngels MyAngels is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,287
Default

So awful.

I'll be interested to see any updates on this if you care to post. It sounds like she was playing fast & loose with ratios including the ages and may have been using sloppy paperwork to cover in case of a surprise visit.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-12-2013, 07:39 AM
cheerfuldom's Avatar
cheerfuldom cheerfuldom is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 7,073
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom2TLE View Post
I had a mom come in on Thurs and tell me DCB 6 months had not been sleeping well. She thought either a cold or teething so she brought in a bottle of Tylenol for me to give him to help him sleep. I told her I wasn't comfortable giving him something for the sole purpose of helping him sleep. I read this and am so glad I stood behind my morals and did not give it to him. You never know what reaction a child will have to any medication even after they have had it before.
What I am surprised about is the information cards and missing some and that this particular child's name was on another child's card. So many things could have gone wrong on so many levels because of this alone. She was over group size and ratios. This is so sad and my heart breaks for that mama that will never get to see her LO again.
I never give children any medication ever. Nothing outside of topical creams like a diaper rash cream. I do not administer medication even if the parent provides it. I found out one time that a parent was giving a child Tylenol before ever nap and bedtime....two or three times a day for months (a year?) before they happened to mention it to me. I definitely provided information regarding appropriate use of Tylenol. This child has severe delays now at 4 years old. I can't say what affect the constant medication might have had but it does make me wonder.....parents think Tylenol is a fix all for everything.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-12-2013, 09:39 AM
Meeko's Avatar
Meeko Meeko is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Utah
Posts: 3,307
Default

I never give meds either. The liability is just waaay too high. And quite frankly, if the child needs to be medicated, they should be at home.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-12-2013, 11:48 AM
Trummynme's Avatar
Trummynme Trummynme is offline
Grade eh Yooper
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,201
Default

Updated in the original post.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-12-2013, 02:53 PM
nannyde's Avatar
nannyde nannyde is offline
All powerful, all knowing, daycare whisperer extraordinaire
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Des Moines
Posts: 5,942
Default

I wonder if the baby was given Tylenol before daycare? I wonder if they tested for Benadryl? I wonder what the normal drop off and pick up time was? I wonder how the provider got by with 15 kids during nap by herself? I wonder if they drug tested the other kids? I wonder what brand of children's Tylenol this was with one quarter teaspoon being a lethal dose? I always wonder why so many of the daycare deaths are found at the end of nap? I wonder why a provider would give Tylenol to a fussy five month old instead if just sending him home? I wonder if the provider and her daughter assistant didn't both dose the child and not know the other already did? I wonder what position the child was in and WHY would it have a blanket in bed? I wonder if they are being truthful about the times. I wonder why a provider would receive a baby at 930 am... dose at noon...not put to bed till 1:30 pm knowing the baby would be picked up in 1.25 hrs.

I hope they tested for Benadryl and I hope they can test for the possibility that the baby already had it Tylenol on board. I hope the day comes in my lifetime that Tylenol and Advil are taken off the shelfs and are by prescription only where EVERY dose has to be accounted for and it is SUPER expensive. This would revolutionize children's community health in child care.



Super fishy specially for an experienced provider.
__________________
Daycare.com Presents Nannyde: The Daycare Whisperer
Consult with Daycare Whisperer http://daycarewhisperer.com/
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-12-2013, 03:20 PM
BABYLUVER's Avatar
BABYLUVER BABYLUVER is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 52
Default

This is a very tragic situation. But the comments in the articles were ridiculous! Did the provider do wrong? IDK I'm not an expert in laws in that state. But did those wrongdoings have any affect on THIS situation? Not that I can see.

Now the things that didn't help her case but did not CAUSE the infant's death:
1. Being over ratio---I know people who have larger centers with just 2 caregivers and even some parents with more kids. No problems simply due to #'s
2. The dose of acetaminophen for the age of child (let's assume normal weight for age) was not wrong from what I can see
3. Misplacing an info card does not cause the death of a child. I knew every one of my children without looking at a card. I would KNOW if they were allergic to something (unless they were not previously exposed, but that's no different than any other situation) and simply not give it to them. The provider I have for my kids now knows my daughter is allergic to milk, my son allergic to nuts (severely), my other son has Hirschprung's syndrome and sensory disorders, another child has to have her tr-ache tube cleaned and she has to be fed, another child has frequent infections, and her own has brittle bone syndrome, and she still takes on an infant who she's had since age 6 weeks and several other kids. I've seen her with 11 at once. She KNOWS every kid because she takes special needs kids and does not need to look at a card to know them. She's just THAT good at taking proper precautions.
4. The fact that no one checked on baby for 1 hour. When I went to sleep at night, I sure did not get up to check on my children. The thing is? If I was already getting up, Id check. If I thought I had a feeling they needed checked, I checked. There were many times that was over an hour. With daycare, I did it in my house and we were all in one room so I was just there anyway. However, keep in mind, death comes fast and quick so she could have checked 5 minutes before and the child could have seemed fine, only to pass later and nothing anyone could do about it. Life isn't promised to ANYONE, and while it's sad, it's not a cause of death. Should she have checked? Sure. I would have if it were my daycare kids.


The things that (possibly) could have caused the baby to die: (Remembering cause of death has not been released):
1. Since no permission card from parent to administer medications, the child could have been unknowingly overdosed (i.e. parent dosed then provider dosed). The parent wouldn't say anything because she'd assume that since nothing was ever agreed upon for administering meds, that meds would not be administered. Whereby the provider should have had the foresight to contact the parent to obtain permission. EVEN WHEN I had permission to administer (whatever meds listed/dose/route/dr. signatures/parent signatures) I always called the parents first. There WERE 2 times I offered to administer tylenol or motrin, and the parent gave me info that vital information they'd done it. OK. That calling gave me the info I needed to make a decisions: USUALLY it was parent came to grab the kids. Since they pre-medicated, obviously it wasn't working and the child(ren) needed to be home. Also, there was ONE time, a parent forgot her medication form and I remembered her child was taking teething tablets. I had no form, but we (at that time) were allowed to obtain verbal permission with instructions. So I could call her, get the dose, route, time, etc and write it down and let her sign when she picked up. However, it seems this provider didn't do EITHER. That could have caused the child's death.
2. An unexplained condition of the child (undiagnosed heart condition, lung condition, blood clot) could have caused the death
3. SIDS (which kind of goes hand in hand with 2)

I can't tell if the provider did something to CAUSE the death or if it's just a tragic accident and then she was found doing other things (unrelated to the death, but related to the safety of her daycare)....it's all a bit strange.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-12-2013, 04:02 PM
nannyde's Avatar
nannyde nannyde is offline
All powerful, all knowing, daycare whisperer extraordinaire
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Des Moines
Posts: 5,942
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BABYLUVER View Post
This is a very tragic situation. But the comments in the articles were ridiculous! Did the provider do wrong? IDK I'm not an expert in laws in that state. But did those wrongdoings have any affect on THIS situation? Not that I can see.

Now the things that didn't help her case but did not CAUSE the infant's death:
1. Being over ratio---I know people who have larger centers with just 2 caregivers and even some parents with more kids. No problems simply due to #'s
2. The dose of acetaminophen for the age of child (let's assume normal weight for age) was not wrong from what I can see
3. Misplacing an info card does not cause the death of a child. I knew every one of my children without looking at a card. I would KNOW if they were allergic to something (unless they were not previously exposed, but that's no different than any other situation) and simply not give it to them. The provider I have for my kids now knows my daughter is allergic to milk, my son allergic to nuts (severely), my other son has Hirschprung's syndrome and sensory disorders, another child has to have her tr-ache tube cleaned and she has to be fed, another child has frequent infections, and her own has brittle bone syndrome, and she still takes on an infant who she's had since age 6 weeks and several other kids. I've seen her with 11 at once. She KNOWS every kid because she takes special needs kids and does not need to look at a card to know them. She's just THAT good at taking proper precautions.
4. The fact that no one checked on baby for 1 hour. When I went to sleep at night, I sure did not get up to check on my children. The thing is? If I was already getting up, Id check. If I thought I had a feeling they needed checked, I checked. There were many times that was over an hour. With daycare, I did it in my house and we were all in one room so I was just there anyway. However, keep in mind, death comes fast and quick so she could have checked 5 minutes before and the child could have seemed fine, only to pass later and nothing anyone could do about it. Life isn't promised to ANYONE, and while it's sad, it's not a cause of death. Should she have checked? Sure. I would have if it were my daycare kids.


The things that (possibly) could have caused the baby to die: (Remembering cause of death has not been released):
1. Since no permission card from parent to administer medications, the child could have been unknowingly overdosed (i.e. parent dosed then provider dosed). The parent wouldn't say anything because she'd assume that since nothing was ever agreed upon for administering meds, that meds would not be administered. Whereby the provider should have had the foresight to contact the parent to obtain permission. EVEN WHEN I had permission to administer (whatever meds listed/dose/route/dr. signatures/parent signatures) I always called the parents first. There WERE 2 times I offered to administer tylenol or motrin, and the parent gave me info that vital information they'd done it. OK. That calling gave me the info I needed to make a decisions: USUALLY it was parent came to grab the kids. Since they pre-medicated, obviously it wasn't working and the child(ren) needed to be home. Also, there was ONE time, a parent forgot her medication form and I remembered her child was taking teething tablets. I had no form, but we (at that time) were allowed to obtain verbal permission with instructions. So I could call her, get the dose, route, time, etc and write it down and let her sign when she picked up. However, it seems this provider didn't do EITHER. That could have caused the child's death.
2. An unexplained condition of the child (undiagnosed heart condition, lung condition, blood clot) could have caused the death
3. SIDS (which kind of goes hand in hand with 2)

I can't tell if the provider did something to CAUSE the death or if it's just a tragic accident and then she was found doing other things (unrelated to the death, but related to the safety of her daycare)....it's all a bit strange.
The comments were from the dhs inspection that happened that day and the following day. September 10 and 11

They HAVE to do a complete inspection and document noncompliances. They don't know at the day of death what caused it. They don't know how the smallest of details may put the puzzle together. They also want a declaration of the series of events before there is time to build a story.

I think it's phenomenal that they were able to get there so quickly and go the next day.
__________________
Daycare.com Presents Nannyde: The Daycare Whisperer
Consult with Daycare Whisperer http://daycarewhisperer.com/
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-12-2013, 04:35 PM
blandino's Avatar
blandino blandino is offline
Daycare.com member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Tulsa area
Posts: 1,609
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
I wonder if the baby was given Tylenol before daycare? I wonder if they tested for Benadryl? I wonder what the normal drop off and pick up time was? I wonder how the provider got by with 15 kids during nap by herself? I wonder if they drug tested the other kids? I wonder what brand of children's Tylenol this was with one quarter teaspoon being a lethal dose? I always wonder why so many of the daycare deaths are found at the end of nap? I wonder why a provider would give Tylenol to a fussy five month old instead if just sending him home? I wonder if the provider and her daughter assistant didn't both dose the child and not know the other already did? I wonder what position the child was in and WHY would it have a blanket in bed? I wonder if they are being truthful about the times. I wonder why a provider would receive a baby at 930 am... dose at noon...not put to bed till 1:30 pm knowing the baby would be picked up in 1.25 hrs.

I hope they tested for Benadryl and I hope they can test for the possibility that the baby already had it Tylenol on board. I hope the day comes in my lifetime that Tylenol and Advil are taken off the shelfs and are by prescription only where EVERY dose has to be accounted for and it is SUPER expensive. This would revolutionize children's community health in child care.



Super fishy specially for an experienced provider.
The baby could have very well been given Tylenol before daycare. I think that is a major concern for providers who administer medicine. You run the risk of dosing a child who is already medicated. If a complication occurs, since providers have to document and parents do not - the blame can easily fall on you. Now based on the time frame, any dose should have almost worn off - but if he was overdosed or the 12:30 time frame wasn't correct - then an overdose could have easily happened. I would be very weary of even giving my own 5 month old Tylenol - that is just very very young for pain meds IMHO.

For the provider's sake, I would hope there would be a way to determine if the baby had lingering amounts of tylenol in it's system from before daycare.

As far as the blanket, in OK it is still legal to put blankets in cribs with babies no matter how young. So that might not be an issue in this state. Not saying it's safe - but it is legal.

This is a random tangent my mind went down. I am not saying this happened, It is just where my mind went. I also would find the regular drop-off and pick-up times of interest. 2:15 is an odd time for a baby to leave daycare (IME). If that was way out of the usual pattern, I would be inclined to think that the parent knew something was going on with the child (and probably medicated before drop off). I used to see that pattern a lot in parents who doped and dropped. Kids would come in late, giving meds time to lower fever and pick up early right when the meds should be wearing off.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-12-2013, 07:15 PM
MyAngels's Avatar
MyAngels MyAngels is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,287
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BABYLUVER View Post
This is a very tragic situation. But the comments in the articles were ridiculous! Did the provider do wrong? IDK I'm not an expert in laws in that state. But did those wrongdoings have any affect on THIS situation? Not that I can see.

Now the things that didn't help her case but did not CAUSE the infant's death:
1. Being over ratio---I know people who have larger centers with just 2 caregivers and even some parents with more kids. No problems simply due to #'s
2. The dose of acetaminophen for the age of child (let's assume normal weight for age) was not wrong from what I can see
3. Misplacing an info card does not cause the death of a child. I knew every one of my children without looking at a card. I would KNOW if they were allergic to something (unless they were not previously exposed, but that's no different than any other situation) and simply not give it to them. The provider I have for my kids now knows my daughter is allergic to milk, my son allergic to nuts (severely), my other son has Hirschprung's syndrome and sensory disorders, another child has to have her tr-ache tube cleaned and she has to be fed, another child has frequent infections, and her own has brittle bone syndrome, and she still takes on an infant who she's had since age 6 weeks and several other kids. I've seen her with 11 at once. She KNOWS every kid because she takes special needs kids and does not need to look at a card to know them. She's just THAT good at taking proper precautions.
4. The fact that no one checked on baby for 1 hour. When I went to sleep at night, I sure did not get up to check on my children. The thing is? If I was already getting up, Id check. If I thought I had a feeling they needed checked, I checked. There were many times that was over an hour. With daycare, I did it in my house and we were all in one room so I was just there anyway. However, keep in mind, death comes fast and quick so she could have checked 5 minutes before and the child could have seemed fine, only to pass later and nothing anyone could do about it. Life isn't promised to ANYONE, and while it's sad, it's not a cause of death. Should she have checked? Sure. I would have if it were my daycare kids.

While each of the things noted taken on their own may not seem like a big deal, taken together they show a pattern of disregard for the rules that are put in place to protect children in daycare situations.

The best we can do as daycare providers is to follow all of the rules to the best of our ability so that if the unthinkable happens to a child in our care we can at least have the peace of mind of knowing that we made that effort.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-13-2013, 05:11 AM
SunnyDay's Avatar
SunnyDay SunnyDay is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 243
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blandino View Post

As far as the blanket, in OK it is still legal to put blankets in cribs with babies no matter how young. So that might not be an issue in this state. Not saying it's safe - but it is legal.
Blankets are not allowed for children under 12 months in MI. We can use sleepsacks.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-14-2013, 03:49 AM
nannyde's Avatar
nannyde nannyde is offline
All powerful, all knowing, daycare whisperer extraordinaire
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Des Moines
Posts: 5,942
Default

Another Bendadryl death:

http://www.wacotrib.com/news/police/...c53ac344b.html
__________________
Daycare.com Presents Nannyde: The Daycare Whisperer
Consult with Daycare Whisperer http://daycarewhisperer.com/
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-14-2013, 04:38 AM
Trummynme's Avatar
Trummynme Trummynme is offline
Grade eh Yooper
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,201
Default

Thank you Nannyde.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-14-2013, 05:41 AM
blandino's Avatar
blandino blandino is offline
Daycare.com member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Tulsa area
Posts: 1,609
Default

How horrible. Clearly, I was wrong.

What does scare me though, is say the other kids hadn't tested positive for Bendaryl. And the parents & provider both denied giving it to the baby - then it is word against word. What a scary situation to be be in.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-14-2013, 06:50 AM
Cradle2crayons's Avatar
Cradle2crayons Cradle2crayons is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 3,247
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blandino View Post
How horrible. Clearly, I was wrong.

What does scare me though, is say the other kids hadn't tested positive for Bendaryl. And the parents & provider both denied giving it to the baby - then it is word against word. What a scary situation to be be in.
I wonder exactly how much Benadryl was given to that child... I mean obviously if the dose is 1/2 tsp and you give 1 tsp that wouldn't be enough to kill a child, so the scary part is that it would have had to have been an obviously horrendous amount and not an accident.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-14-2013, 07:17 AM
nannyde's Avatar
nannyde nannyde is offline
All powerful, all knowing, daycare whisperer extraordinaire
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Des Moines
Posts: 5,942
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons View Post
I wonder exactly how much Benadryl was given to that child... I mean obviously if the dose is 1/2 tsp and you give 1 tsp that wouldn't be enough to kill a child, so the scary part is that it would have had to have been an obviously horrendous amount and not an accident.
The op case is not the Benadryl case. And no it doesn't take a large dose. In past Benadryl poisoning cases there was a history of giving this med wherein the amount needed to get the desired effect increase over time. All the kids in her care tested positive for it in hair follicle testing. That shows a pattern of administration.

Benadryl is not to be used birth to two and with dr order only age two to five.
__________________
Daycare.com Presents Nannyde: The Daycare Whisperer
Consult with Daycare Whisperer http://daycarewhisperer.com/
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 10-14-2013, 07:24 AM
Cradle2crayons's Avatar
Cradle2crayons Cradle2crayons is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 3,247
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
The op case is not the Benadryl case. And no it doesn't take a large dose. In past Benadryl poisoning cases there was a history of giving this med wherein the amount needed to get the desired effect increase over time. All the kids in her care tested positive for it in hair follicle testing. That shows a pattern of administration.

Benadryl is not to be used birth to two and with dr order only age two to five.
All of the local pediatricians recommend Benadryl after vaccinations, of course at a weight approved dose.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-14-2013, 07:44 AM
blandino's Avatar
blandino blandino is offline
Daycare.com member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Tulsa area
Posts: 1,609
Default

Sorry, I didn't check the details closely enough.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 10-14-2013, 08:03 AM
nannyde's Avatar
nannyde nannyde is offline
All powerful, all knowing, daycare whisperer extraordinaire
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Des Moines
Posts: 5,942
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons View Post
All of the local pediatricians recommend Benadryl after vaccinations, of course at a weight approved dose.
Never seen Benadryl after shots
__________________
Daycare.com Presents Nannyde: The Daycare Whisperer
Consult with Daycare Whisperer http://daycarewhisperer.com/
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 10-14-2013, 08:14 AM
Trummynme's Avatar
Trummynme Trummynme is offline
Grade eh Yooper
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,201
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blandino View Post
Sorry, I didn't check the details closely enough.
You're fine. I was just thanking Nannyde for posting an article with a different perspective. I believe the police investigation is ongoing in the Tylenol case. The state licensing agency shut her down by taking her license. I'll post updates if I see any.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 10-14-2013, 08:14 AM
Blackcat31's Avatar
Blackcat31 Blackcat31 is offline
Daycare.com Member/Mod
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 13,567
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
Never seen Benadryl after shots
I was wondering the same thing.

I've heard for colds and allergies but never for imms.....wonder what that line of thinking is?

Maybe an anti-inflammatory? But wouldn't ibuprofen work better for that?
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 10-14-2013, 08:16 AM
Cradle2crayons's Avatar
Cradle2crayons Cradle2crayons is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 3,247
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
I was wondering the same thing.

I've heard for colds and allergies but never for imms.....wonder what that line of thinking is?

Maybe an anti-inflammatory? But wouldn't ibuprofen work better for that?
They SAY its for discomfort and fussiness afterwards. They also have parents give a dose of Tylenol 2 hours before shots.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 10-14-2013, 08:18 AM
blandino's Avatar
blandino blandino is offline
Daycare.com member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Tulsa area
Posts: 1,609
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons View Post
They SAY its for discomfort and fussiness afterwards. They also have parents give a dose of Tylenol 2 hours before shots.
Tylenol, I have heard of prior to shots and sometimes after. If Tylenol is okay for before, then why not Tylenol after ? Not actually asking you - just seems odd to me.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 10-14-2013, 08:20 AM
Blackcat31's Avatar
Blackcat31 Blackcat31 is offline
Daycare.com Member/Mod
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 13,567
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons View Post
They SAY its for discomfort and fussiness afterwards. They also have parents give a dose of Tylenol 2 hours before shots.
Yeah, I've heard the giving something prior to shots (here they usually say(ibuprofen vs acetaminophen) but I have never heard of Benedryl.
....guess you learn something new every day.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 10-14-2013, 08:28 AM
Cradle2crayons's Avatar
Cradle2crayons Cradle2crayons is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 3,247
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blandino View Post
Tylenol, I have heard of prior to shots and sometimes after. If Tylenol is okay for before, then why not Tylenol after ? Not actually asking you - just seems odd to me.
They do ibuprofen or Tylenol afterwards as well. The reason for before shots is to reduce discomfort I Guess.

What can I say.. This is Mississippi lol
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 10-14-2013, 08:33 AM
Blackcat31's Avatar
Blackcat31 Blackcat31 is offline
Daycare.com Member/Mod
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 13,567
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons View Post
They do ibuprofen or Tylenol afterwards as well. The reason for before shots is to reduce discomfort I Guess.

What can I say.. This is Mississippi lol
LOL! I googled "Bendryl before vaccines" and all I got was tons of dog forums saying that it helps ease the anxiety and possible allergic reactions dogs commonly have before immunizations...

It might be a Mississippi thing but it sounds as though it's a canine thing too!
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 10-14-2013, 08:35 AM
Cradle2crayons's Avatar
Cradle2crayons Cradle2crayons is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 3,247
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
LOL! I googled "Bendryl before vaccines" and all I got was tons of dog forums saying that it helps ease the anxiety and possible allergic reactions dogs commonly have before immunizations...

It might be a Mississippi thing but it sounds as though it's a canine thing too!
Yep, we give it in dogs and cats actually
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 10-15-2013, 07:46 AM
Scout's Avatar
Scout Scout is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,694
Default

Why give the kids in your care benedryl? So they sleep better?? I would never give benedryl to a baby! I can't even give it my ds(27 mos) yet because he doesn't weigh enough. How terrible.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 10-15-2013, 08:45 AM
countrymom's Avatar
countrymom countrymom is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: ontario canada
Posts: 4,849
Default

I was wondering something. How come the parent wasn't investigated. Think about it, the baby gets dropped off already fussy and cranky, there had to be some sort of convo between the parent and the provider. Maybe the parent was at the breaking point and shook the baby or over medicated the baby before hand, but how would you prove it.

yes, the provider had alot of flaws, but I think that maybe something happened prior the child being dropped off and now the provider is left trying to make sense of it all.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 10-15-2013, 08:54 AM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by countrymom View Post
I was wondering something. How come the parent wasn't investigated. Think about it, the baby gets dropped off already fussy and cranky, there had to be some sort of convo between the parent and the provider. Maybe the parent was at the breaking point and shook the baby or over medicated the baby before hand, but how would you prove it.

yes, the provider had alot of flaws, but I think that maybe something happened prior the child being dropped off and now the provider is left trying to make sense of it all.
Why? because we as providers are always the first ones to blame, and have the finger pointed at.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 10-15-2013, 10:02 AM
Maria2013's Avatar
Maria2013 Maria2013 is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,028
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by countrymom View Post
I was wondering something. How come the parent wasn't investigated. Think about it, the baby gets dropped off already fussy and cranky, there had to be some sort of convo between the parent and the provider. Maybe the parent was at the breaking point and shook the baby or over medicated the baby before hand, but how would you prove it.

yes, the provider had alot of flaws, but I think that maybe something happened prior the child being dropped off and now the provider is left trying to make sense of it all.
was thinking the same thing

also if Benadryl stays in hair follicles, could it be that some how accumulates in the body and eventually just has too much? and those kids tested positive for Benadryl but who's to say when and where they got it
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 10-15-2013, 10:04 AM
LaLa1923's Avatar
LaLa1923 LaLa1923 is offline
mommyof5-and going crazy
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,086
Default

I have a question!!! I really don't understand why a provider would give a child medicine when there's no form and communication from the parent.

But why benyadryl?? I don't get it!
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 10-15-2013, 10:34 AM
Willow Willow is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,653
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
LOL! I googled "Bendryl before vaccines" and all I got was tons of dog forums saying that it helps ease the anxiety and possible allergic reactions dogs commonly have before immunizations...

It might be a Mississippi thing but it sounds as though it's a canine thing too!
According to my vets and the reseach I've personally done, giving a dog Benadryl pre-vaccination is pretty ill advised as well as being counter productive. One of my dogs gets a giant dose of of dexamethasone before his vaccines only because he's severely allergic to the preservatives in them....but like the active ingredient in Benadryl it's an immunosuppressant.....which can to an extent, if not entirely, lessen the efficacy of the vaccination.

Same goes for children. Giving them Benadryl beforehand could almost completely defeat the purpose of giving the shots at all.

I think it's entirely overused and abused by many people on a daily basis. I'd go so far as to agree with Nan that they, along with childrens anti-inflammitories, should become monitored prescrption medications just like cold remedies with pseudoepedrine in them are. People
today are a combination of overly paranoid (using them for everything), overly confident (thinking they are doctors capable of self diagnosis and treatment) or are just plain stupid, not taking the time to research and administer them properly.

Living beings are dying everyday. It's a freaking epidemic.

It is NOT well enough studied for use as a sedative in ANY circumstance, doc advised or not.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 10-15-2013, 12:07 PM
Blackcat31's Avatar
Blackcat31 Blackcat31 is offline
Daycare.com Member/Mod
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 13,567
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willow View Post
According to my vets and the reseach I've personally done, giving a dog Benadryl pre-vaccination is pretty ill advised as well as being counter productive. One of my dogs gets a giant dose of of dexamethasone before his vaccines only because he's severely allergic to the preservatives in them....but like the active ingredient in Benadryl it's an immunosuppressant.....which can to an extent, if not entirely, lessen the efficacy of the vaccination.

Same goes for children. Giving them Benadryl beforehand could almost completely defeat the purpose of giving the shots at all.

I think it's entirely overused and abused by many people on a daily basis. I'd go so far as to agree with Nan that they, along with childrens anti-inflammitories, should become monitored prescrption medications just like cold remedies with pseudoepedrine in them are. People
today are a combination of overly paranoid (using them for everything), overly confident (thinking they are doctors capable of self diagnosis and treatment) or are just plain stupid, not taking the time to research and administer them properly.

Living beings are dying everyday. It's a freaking epidemic.

It is NOT well enough studied for use as a sedative in ANY circumstance, doc advised or not.
I had never heard of the Benedryl thing for dogs either until I googled Bendryl and immunizations....that's all the popped up, one dog forum after another about giving it to dogs..

I can't say I'd be willing to give it my dog or cat.

I don't dispense meds here in care but I will allow a parent to give their child something for pain, (for teething etc) PROVIDED they let me know before dropping off and they fill out a form stating why they gave it, when they gave it and who dispensed it.

Had a DCM yesterday bring her (newly turned) 3 yr old in and ask for the med log. I asked why and she said she gave her Benedryl because she seemed a little stuff and had a slight cough.

I told her Benedryl is NOT for kids under 6. Mom says "Well, I know that. That's why I only gave "M" half a dose."

Worst part is DCM is in nursing school for her RN.... she should KNOW better than to simply assume cutting a dose in half is appropriate.

I sent DCM and DCK home. I am NOT willing to care for a child given a dose of anything NOT for them.

DCM tried to tell me Dr said it was ok. When I asked when and to bring proof,...DCM says "Well.... a while ago my nephew's Dr said to do that and he is the same age."

I was NOT a happy camper and told DCM I was going to document this conversation and that in the future if I became aware of this, I would report her.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 10-15-2013, 12:15 PM
Willow Willow is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,653
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
I had never heard of the Benedryl thing for dogs either until I googled Bendryl and immunizations....that's all the popped up, one dog forum after another about giving it to dogs..

I can't say I'd be willing to give it my dog or cat.

I don't dispense meds here in care but I will allow a parent to give their child something for pain, (for teething etc) PROVIDED they let me know before dropping off and they fill out a form stating why they gave it, when they gave it and who dispensed it.

Had a DCM yesterday bring her (newly turned) 3 yr old in and ask for the med log. I asked why and she said she gave her Benedryl because she seemed a little stuff and had a slight cough.

I told her Benedryl is NOT for kids under 6. Mom says "Well, I know that. That's why I only gave "M" half a dose."

Worst part is DCM is in nursing school for her RN.... she should KNOW better than to simply assume cutting a dose in half is appropriate.

I sent DCM and DCK home. I am NOT willing to care for a child given a dose of anything NOTfor them.

DCM tried to tell me Dr said it was ok. When I asked when and to bring proof,...DCM says "Well.... a while ago my nephew's Dr said to do that and he is the same age."

I was NOT a happy camper and told DCM I was going to document this conversation and
that in the future if I became aware of this, I would report her.
Holy crap!!!!!!!

See now a situation like that i could totally see a provider getting nailed with if something happened to the child......just yikes!!!
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 10-15-2013, 12:21 PM
Angelsj's Avatar
Angelsj Angelsj is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,068
Default

I doubt everyone (doctors) are caught up just yet, but latest research has found no benefit and possible overdosing with the Tylenol before shots, and it is being discontinued. Well, UNrecommended.

Never heard of Benedryl for shots though..odd.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 10-15-2013, 12:24 PM
nannyde's Avatar
nannyde nannyde is offline
All powerful, all knowing, daycare whisperer extraordinaire
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Des Moines
Posts: 5,942
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LaLa1923 View Post
I have a question!!! I really don't understand why a provider would give a child medicine when there's no form and communication from the parent.

But why benyadryl?? I don't get it!
Knocks them out.
__________________
Daycare.com Presents Nannyde: The Daycare Whisperer
Consult with Daycare Whisperer http://daycarewhisperer.com/
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 10-15-2013, 12:26 PM
Angelsj's Avatar
Angelsj Angelsj is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,068
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scout View Post
Why give the kids in your care benedryl? So they sleep better?? I would never give benedryl to a baby! I can't even give it my ds(27 mos) yet because he doesn't weigh enough. How terrible.
I haven't followed this thread enough yet to know who you are talking to here, but I just went this round. Of course, we don't use it daily, but it is sometimes necessary.
One of my DCBs was stung by 20-25 wasps recently (at home, not here) and for a day or two after he came back, he had regular Benedryl. I have it here because the doc wants him to have an immediate dose for the remainder of the year if he is stung by even one insect.

I also have a little girl that will occasionally, for some unknown (yet) reason, suddenly develop hives. We keep some here to dose her immediately if needed. We have used it once in the last year.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 10-15-2013, 01:04 PM
JoseyJo's Avatar
JoseyJo JoseyJo is offline
Group DCP in Kansas
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Kansas
Posts: 906
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
Knocks them out.
My thought also So sad that some people (families and providers) would rather drug their children instead of using a good sleep routine!

We have a dcb5 here whose mom gives him melatonin (without dr's permission, since she doesn't want to look like a "bad mom" for asking!) to try to get him to go to sleep. She stays in his room and continuously tells him "go to sleep, go to sleep" and wonders why he wont. All the while he is surrounded with a million toys, primary colors everywhere, computer, tv, ipad, video games etc in his bed room.

We have another who often gives dcb4 benydrl because he is cranky and she knows he needs to go to bed early but wont.

Both boys sleep just fine for us.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 10-15-2013, 01:07 PM
JoseyJo's Avatar
JoseyJo JoseyJo is offline
Group DCP in Kansas
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Kansas
Posts: 906
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelsj View Post
I haven't followed this thread enough yet to know who you are talking to here, but I just went this round. Of course, we don't use it daily, but it is sometimes necessary.
One of my DCBs was stung by 20-25 wasps recently (at home, not here) and for a day or two after he came back, he had regular Benedryl. I have it here because the doc wants him to have an immediate dose for the remainder of the year if he is stung by even one insect.

I also have a little girl that will occasionally, for some unknown (yet) reason, suddenly develop hives. We keep some here to dose her immediately if needed. We have used it once in the last year.
Nothing wrong with anti-histamines! My 14 yo breaks out with huge hives (quarter and 1/2 dollar size) around horses, some dogs, latex, perfume, some laundry soap, some deodorant, etc, etc. Just bad when people are using them improperly
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 10-15-2013, 01:19 PM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoseyJo View Post
My thought also So sad that some people (families and providers) would rather drug their children instead of using a good sleep routine!

We have a dcb5 here whose mom gives him melatonin (without dr's permission, since she doesn't want to look like a "bad mom" for asking!) to try to get him to go to sleep. She stays in his room and continuously tells him "go to sleep, go to sleep" and wonders why he wont. All the while he is surrounded with a million toys, primary colors everywhere, computer, tv, ipad, video games etc in his bed room.

We have another who often gives dcb4 benydrl because he is cranky and she knows he needs to go to bed early but wont.

Both boys sleep just fine for us.
Melatonin is dangerous, especially at a young age. People under 25 taking melatonin on a regular basis will actually stop producing melatonin by their self. So they then have to take it to go to sleep. I would bring it up to the mom and have her talk to her doctor.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 10-15-2013, 01:50 PM
Willow Willow is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,653
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Melatonin is dangerous, especially at a young age. People under 25 taking melatonin on a regular basis will actually stop producing melatonin by their self. So they then have to take it to go to sleep. I would bring it up to the mom and have her talk to her doctor.
OT but......

Although use of melatonin for children hasn't been studied near enough, no credible studies have come to any of the conclusions you claim.

It has been safely used for decades and is non habit forming. Because of that it can safely be used for up to two years. It does not impede or restrict the body's ability to form natural melatonin and no credible study has ever concluded it is dangerous.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 10-15-2013, 02:33 PM
TwinKristi's Avatar
TwinKristi TwinKristi is offline
Family Childcare Provider
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: California
Posts: 2,119
Default

Benadryl can be given to children under the age of 6 with a dr's recommendation. My children have had hives and allergic reaction and needed Benadryl. One is 7, almost 8, and has to have Benadryl & an Epi-PenJr with us at all times due to his bee sting allergy. If he was in childcare I would need to have those with him, just like at school and with the proper paperwork.

Also, the whole Tylenol/Motrin before and even after shots has been ended as a practice. They're finding the immunizations aren't as effective when the body's reaction is minimized and/or altered. If baby develops a **high** fever you can treat that, but they don't recommend just giving it as precaution anymore for discomfort or pain.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 10-15-2013, 03:26 PM
LaLa1923's Avatar
LaLa1923 LaLa1923 is offline
mommyof5-and going crazy
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,086
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
Knocks them out.
Ok. But so does melatonin. Idk. The whole thing is just wrong.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 10-15-2013, 04:32 PM
Willow Willow is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,653
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LaLa1923 View Post
Ok. But so does melatonin. Idk. The whole thing is just wrong.
Melatonin doesn't "knock" anyone out. Thats not the way it works.

If you take melatonin in the middle of the day while the sun is shining and you're doing yard work it'll have zero effect. It only works if/when the body is needing sleep and if/when the conditions are right for sleep (dark, your body is quiet and relaxed, you've been awake for a certain period of time etc.). It can help reset your circadian rhythm, but doesn't have the ability to "drug" your brain.

Even then it doesn't keep you asleep, whereas the active ingredient in Benadryl is actually (at times and certain dosages) a debilitating sedative.

While you can easily overdose on Benadryl's active ingredient, it's impossible to do so with melatonin (where the worst that would happen is you'd have a longer more active REM cycle that would simply result in a few vivid dreams at worst). Thats exactly why melatonin has been deemed so safe.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 10-15-2013, 05:03 PM
Cradle2crayons's Avatar
Cradle2crayons Cradle2crayons is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 3,247
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelsj View Post
I haven't followed this thread enough yet to know who you are talking to here, but I just went this round. Of course, we don't use it daily, but it is sometimes necessary.
One of my DCBs was stung by 20-25 wasps recently (at home, not here) and for a day or two after he came back, he had regular Benedryl. I have it here because the doc wants him to have an immediate dose for the remainder of the year if he is stung by even one insect.

I also have a little girl that will occasionally, for some unknown (yet) reason, suddenly develop hives. We keep some here to dose her immediately if needed. We have used it once in the last year.
Yep it's part of both of my own kids insect sting protocol. They get a dose of Benadryl, epi shot and good dose of Zyrtec four hours later and every 12 hours and also benedryl if absolutely necessary after that. They have so much of a reaction even steroids are part of their sting protocol. Scary stuff !! Especially with the boy.
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 10-15-2013, 05:05 PM
Cradle2crayons's Avatar
Cradle2crayons Cradle2crayons is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 3,247
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinKristi View Post
Benadryl can be given to children under the age of 6 with a dr's recommendation. My children have had hives and allergic reaction and needed Benadryl. One is 7, almost 8, and has to have Benadryl & an Epi-PenJr with us at all times due to his bee sting allergy. If he was in childcare I would need to have those with him, just like at school and with the proper paperwork.

Also, the whole Tylenol/Motrin before and even after shots has been ended as a practice. They're finding the immunizations aren't as effective when the body's reaction is minimized and/or altered. If baby develops a **high** fever you can treat that, but they don't recommend just giving it as precaution anymore for discomfort or pain.
FYI here in my state they most certainly do still recommend Tylenol BEFORE shots (2 hrs before) and ibuprofen for discomfort or fever afterwards. It's not just private physicians recommending it. It's the HEALTH DEPARTMENT also. Matter of fact, the FIRST thing they ask BEFORE giving the immunization a is to be sure you DID in fact give the Tylenol. If not, they offer it there.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 10-15-2013, 05:07 PM
Cradle2crayons's Avatar
Cradle2crayons Cradle2crayons is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 3,247
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Melatonin is dangerous, especially at a young age. People under 25 taking melatonin on a regular basis will actually stop producing melatonin by their self. So they then have to take it to go to sleep. I would bring it up to the mom and have her talk to her doctor.
Babies in the NICU are given melatonin regularly. Also, dr recommend it for small children all the time. It's the least dangerous med out there.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 10-15-2013, 05:18 PM
Scout's Avatar
Scout Scout is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,694
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelsj View Post
I haven't followed this thread enough yet to know who you are talking to here, but I just went this round. Of course, we don't use it daily, but it is sometimes necessary.
One of my DCBs was stung by 20-25 wasps recently (at home, not here) and for a day or two after he came back, he had regular Benedryl. I have it here because the doc wants him to have an immediate dose for the remainder of the year if he is stung by even one insect.

I also have a little girl that will occasionally, for some unknown (yet) reason, suddenly develop hives. We keep some here to dose her immediately if needed. We have used it once in the last year.
I guess my edit didn't go thru! I edited to say that I didn't mean it directed at any of you, just in general. I understand having it on hand for stings and such, when my oldest ds was 1 ped said to have it on hand for when we gave him peanut butter(just in case even tho no other foods had a reaction) but, things I guess have changed in 5 years.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 10-15-2013, 09:32 PM
JoseyJo's Avatar
JoseyJo JoseyJo is offline
Group DCP in Kansas
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Kansas
Posts: 906
Default

My dd has taken melatonin by dr order since 13 yo for racing thoughts. I totally understand if the dr had prescribed it to him, but he didn't, she didn't even ask a dr, AND she is not giving it to him correctly.

I have talked to her about it, every time she mentions it. I have told her she shouldn't give him anything herbal, OT, RX without seeing a dr. I have also explained to her how it works and that it is not a "knock out" drug.

I really irks me! I have seen both of these children well-rested a few times and they are totally different kids. Makes me sad for them
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 10-16-2013, 08:11 AM
Blackcat31's Avatar
Blackcat31 Blackcat31 is offline
Daycare.com Member/Mod
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 13,567
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons View Post
Babies in the NICU are given melatonin regularly. Also, dr recommend it for small children all the time. It's the least dangerous med out there.
It may be considered safe in most aspects but I wouldn't go that far as to say it's the least dangerous.

My DS suffered from insomnia and other sleep issues and my pediatrician would NOT recommend melatonin stating NO long term studies have been done and unless ALL other things fail. We found a solution with regular routine, soothing sounds and diet adjustments.

From Livestrong.com

According to the National Institutes of Health, melatonin appears to be an effective treatment for sleep disturbances in children with developmental and neurobehavioral disorders, such as autism, anxiety disorder, mental retardation, Asperger's syndrome and attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder. Melatonin can help these children fall asleep faster and stay asleep longer. Some parents also use melatonin as a treatment for insomnia in children with normal development, but no studies have evaluated this use.

Safety Considerations

The University of Maryland Medical Center states that melatonin can be a safe supplement for children when it used in low doses, under the guidance of a qualified practitioner. However, the NIH considers the product to be inappropriate for use in most toddlers. The benefits associated with melatonin are only worth the risks when a toddler's sleep disturbances are significantly disruptive to his health or development, and when drug-free treatment options have failed.

Possible Risks:

Melatonin can trigger several possible side effects in toddlers. The UMMC states that high doses, exceeding 1 to 5 milligrams, can cause seizures in children under 15 years of age. According to the NIH, melatonin can alter the production of reproductive hormones, particularly in adolescents. No large-scale, well-designed studies have investigated the effects of melatonin supplements on a toddler's developing endocrine system. The NIH reports a link between melatonin supplements and uncomfortable side effects such as headache, stomach cramps and mood disturbances.

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/27...#ixzz2htjQXrTy
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 10-16-2013, 08:38 AM
Willow Willow is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,653
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
It may be considered safe in most aspects but I wouldn't go that far as to say it's the least dangerous.

My DS suffered from insomnia and other sleep issues and my pediatrician would NOT recommend melatonin stating NO long term studies have been done and unless ALL other things fail. We found a solution with regular routine, soothing sounds and diet adjustments.

From Livestrong.com

According to the National Institutes of Health, melatonin appears to be an effective treatment for sleep disturbances in children with developmental and neurobehavioral disorders, such as autism, anxiety disorder, mental retardation, Asperger's syndrome and attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder. Melatonin can help these children fall asleep faster and stay asleep longer. Some parents also use melatonin as a treatment for insomnia in children with normal development, but no studies have evaluated this use.

Safety Considerations

The University of Maryland Medical Center states that melatonin can be a safe supplement for children when it used in low doses, under the guidance of a qualified practitioner. However, the NIH considers the product to be inappropriate for use in most toddlers. The benefits associated with melatonin are only worth the risks when a toddler's sleep disturbances are significantly disruptive to his health or development, and when drug-free treatment options have failed.

Possible Risks:

Melatonin can trigger several possible side effects in toddlers. The UMMC states that high doses, exceeding 1 to 5 milligrams, can cause seizures in children under 15 years of age. According to the NIH, melatonin can alter the production of reproductive hormones, particularly in adolescents. No large-scale, well-designed studies have investigated the effects of melatonin supplements on a toddler's developing endocrine system. The NIH reports a link between melatonin supplements and uncomfortable side effects such as headache, stomach cramps and mood disturbances.

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/27...#ixzz2htjQXrTy
Ita there are usually better more appropriate things to try for most people, children included.

But I'd be willing to bet the study the NIH was referencing was the one where the dosage was 50mg+. In that one, yes, people experienced upset tummies and headaches......but the same could be said for too many brussel sprouts you know?

Eat to much of anything it's going to cause you trouble, heck, drink too much WATER it can cause the same and even KILL you.


But with the recommended dose being .5-3mg people rarely (never?) experience such side effects. It's far lower than our own bodies produce so it wouldn't make sense.


Only in these studies where they've literally had people consume entire bottles of the pills, has there been an issue. Imho, thats not a study, just bunk researchers trying to peg a very safe supplement dangerous so pharmaceutical companies can get their grubbies in on "regulating" it more intensely (ie....be able to charge the general public more for it).
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 10-16-2013, 08:57 AM
Blackcat31's Avatar
Blackcat31 Blackcat31 is offline
Daycare.com Member/Mod
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 13,567
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willow View Post
Only in these studies where they've literally had people consume entire bottles of the pills, has there been an issue. Imho, thats not a study, just bunk researchers trying to peg a very safe supplement dangerous so pharmaceutical companies can get their grubbies in on "regulating" it more intensely (ie....be able to charge the general public more for it).
I agree ^^^^ big pharm has a lot of influence on what is and isn't deemed safe.

Consumers blindly follow and rarely do their own research.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willow View Post
But with the recommended dose being .5-3mg people rarely (never?) experience such side effects. It's far lower than our own bodies produce so it wouldn't make sense.
According to the NIH, a daily dose of 5 milligrams, immediately before bedtime, appears to be a safe and effective dose for toddlers with developmental disabilities. Children without neurobehavioral conditions may take any dose beteween 0.3 and 5 milligrams, according to the NIH. However, the UMMC advises a much lower dose, suggesting no more than 0.3 milligrams per day for children under the age of 15.


Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/27...#ixzz2htvJyukl
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 10-16-2013, 09:30 AM
Willow Willow is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,653
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
I agree ^^^^ big pharm has a lot of influence on what is and isn't deemed safe.

Consumers blindly follow and rarely do their own research.



According to the NIH, a daily dose of 5 milligrams, immediately before bedtime, appears to be a safe and effective dose for toddlers with developmental disabilities. Children without neurobehavioral conditions may take any dose beteween 0.3 and 5 milligrams, according to the NIH. However, the UMMC advises a much lower dose, suggesting no more than 0.3 milligrams per day for children under the age of 15.


Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/27...#ixzz2htvJyukl


I do think way too many parents shoot for the quick fix and most times the .3 isnt even necessary....so at least maybe some of those warnings, regardless of where or why they originated, will give parents reason to at least reconsider the even safer alternatives you mentioned like tweaking diet, exercise and routine.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 10-16-2013, 10:04 AM
TwinKristi's Avatar
TwinKristi TwinKristi is offline
Family Childcare Provider
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: California
Posts: 2,119
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons View Post
FYI here in my state they most certainly do still recommend Tylenol BEFORE shots (2 hrs before) and ibuprofen for discomfort or fever afterwards. It's not just private physicians recommending it. It's the HEALTH DEPARTMENT also. Matter of fact, the FIRST thing they ask BEFORE giving the immunization a is to be sure you DID in fact give the Tylenol. If not, they offer it there.
Well you may want to advise your DCPs to research and ask before doing this. The AAP & Medscape has several articles about this and recent studies are showing Tylenol weakens the immune response your body has after the shot which makes the shot less effective. They're trying to blame non-vac'ing parents for the increase in breakthrough infections and such but really they're finding the vaccines aren't as strong due to this method of prophylaxis Tyelnol. This isn't just our dr's office, but hospitals and health centers across the nation. Obviously it takes time for protocol to change and some old school docs are going to do what they've been doing but it's not recommended to do anymore by the AAP.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
article, death, death at daycare

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Licensed DayCare vs. Private DayCare marylmr Daycare Center and Family Home Forum 21 06-19-2014 05:10 PM
2 1/2 Year Old Kick Out Of Daycare momagain Parents and Guardians Forum 12 04-29-2013 12:53 PM
This Is My State DCBlessings27 Daycare Center and Family Home Forum 21 10-23-2012 09:37 AM
Infant Sleep Standards @ Daycare Unregistered Parents and Guardians Forum 22 09-11-2012 03:29 AM
Daycare Worker Dropped My Baby... was Parents and Guardians Forum 14 06-14-2012 02:30 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:46 PM.



Daycare.com         Find A Daycare         List Your Daycare         Toys & Products                 About Us

Daycare.com
Please read our Disclaimer before continuing.

Topics pertain mainly to the following States:

Alabama Alaska Arizona Arkansas California Colorado Connecticut Delaware District of Columbia Florida Georgia Hawaii Idaho Illinois Indiana Iowa Kansas Kentucky Louisiana Maine Maryland Massachusetts Michigan Minnesota Mississippi Missouri Montana Nebraska Nevada New Hampshire New Jersey New Mexico New York North Carolina North Dakota Ohio Oklahoma Oregon Pennsylvania Rhode Island South Carolina South Dakota Tennessee Texas Utah Vermont Virginia Washington West Virginia Wisconsin Wyoming