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06-06-2013 08:29 PM
Blackcat31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyss View Post
So I'm going to continuing the OT conversation (who wants to go on about the OPost anyway ) with a quick question:

I have an AAS in Early Childhood Education how does this relate to the CDA? as in is it higher, lower, the same? I feel a bit special on this topic as I've never heard of a CDA until this forum.
Your degree is higher and requires more credits and courses.

A CDA is only a portion of those credits or courses.

Not sure how "old" a CDA credential is but I earned mine in 1993-94 originally.

I stopped renewing it when I got my A.A.S. as the current degree trumps the CDA .
06-06-2013 08:06 PM
Lyss So I'm going to continuing the OT conversation (who wants to go on about the OPost anyway ) with a quick question:

I have an AAS in Early Childhood Education how does this relate to the CDA? as in is it higher, lower, the same? I feel a bit special on this topic as I've never heard of a CDA until this forum.
06-06-2013 06:35 PM
nannyde
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I am the poster of the original post above this quote, first let me say that I am a former nurse and have had all the training you need to take care of a child,second I have had two children of my own,now have families of their own. I did not need any extra training courses to raise my own kids, I raised them just fine. Do you think that women need to be licensed to raise their own kids? I know that's a loaded question, but seriously, if a women can raise her own children, then why does she need to be licensed to care for others...I know this sounds ridiculous, but it just makes a point.

As far as the licensed daycare home being dirty, no that is not the case with every licensed daycare home, but in turn does that mean that all unlicensed daycare homes are unsafe or dirty ? No, it doesn't.

Some of us unlicensed providers just choose to only care for a few kids and not make it a career, but want to do it because we love the little ones. That does not make us bad people or not responsible. It does cost a lot to be licensed and for just taking a couple kids,from the same family, it is hard for people to afford to do updates on their homes to be licensed for one thing. If you plan on making it a career and have the money to do that , then go for it.

I just don't think it is fair to judge providers for whatever choice they make,whether they are licensed or not and how they advertise. It really is nobody's business on how we conduct our own daycare business, it is up to each provider to as how they do things and their choices. It is hard enough to find kids theses days anyway as many people are losing their jobs, money is tight and they are having to pull their kids out of daycare or look for cheaper ways of finding care.

So lets not nit pic about whether one provider is licensed or not and how they advertise. Initially it is up to parents to choose the right provider for their child and there preferences.
It isn't up to the parents. The laws were made long before they had their child. The laws didn't consider their opinion because they aren't knowledgeable about the care of other people's children. You don't get that either. Caring for other people's kids isnt anything like caring for your own.
06-06-2013 04:49 PM
Cat Herder
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
Hmm, I wonder if things have changed a lot since I first did mine. .
So far my understanding is:

*$15 for renewal application packet.

*$100 for "processing" said packet.

*$ for 4.5 CEUs ( 1 "hour" classes= .1 CEUs and prices vary for $10-$65 per hour here unless you can attend the occasional free classes, that will count for CEUS, offered 2 hours away on weekdays. This is AFTER you have already paid for and completed 120 hours.)

* a letter from a "supervisor" stating you worked 80 hours (if you work alone you have to beg your CCR&R and wait patiently for them to respond no matter how over worked they already are)

*Letter of Recommendation from a certified reviewer...a stranger at best/competitor at worst... who comes into your home and micromanages your program. (THIS is where it gets very VERY sticky for private home providers/parents who prefer a home like environment) The pressure is harsh.

* Documented proof of membership in an association with a couple "recommended" by your reviewer.

It really gets overwhelming...$$$$ I may have missed a step or two, I have opted out of renewal.

Back to topic , sorry, I know I am the wost.

ILLEGAL daycare is wrong, wrong, wrong!!! No matter how frustrated you are with the system. The QRIS thing will wash itself out eventually, ride it out. It is not the first government program to upset small business owners, it won't be the last.

Wear your 1-2 STARS proudly like the Sneetches if you have to.... Eventually, it will all work out.
06-06-2013 04:31 PM
Sugar Magnolia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heidi View Post
[/b]

I always say that I am in the program because I have to be, but I am NOT drinking the Koolaid.
06-06-2013 04:06 PM
Blackcat31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
Child Care is already dead... they just have not officially identified the body.

I loved the CDA training... I oppose the continued annual fee fee's, pressured accreditations, mandatory paid memberships in associations that receive money from the afore mentioned fee fees.... just to KEEP the CDA. blah, blah, blah

Not to mention the *recommended purchases* that are constantly pushed on you or the legislative measures you are *encouraged" to support.

With each new mailing I first look for the Scientology logo... Just kidding, but... ugh
Hmm, I wonder if things have changed a lot since I first did mine. I remember having to be part of an association which wasn't a huge deal as I LOVE the magazine and info I get from the NAEYC and as far as renewal goes, I only had to take a couple CEU's or credits once every 5 years and that was all.

I didn't even receive regular mailings from them.

If they ARE starting to really be pushy and annoying about it, I can see why it would be a turn off to providers who already have enough on their plates working 12-15 hour days.
06-06-2013 03:43 PM
Heidi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
Child Care is already dead... they just have not officially identified the body.

I loved the CDA training... I oppose the continued annual fee fee's, pressed accreditations, mandatory paid memberships in associations that receive money from the afore mentioned fee fees.... just to KEEP the CDA. blah, blah, blah

Not to mention the *recommended purchases* that are constantly pushed on you or the legislative measures you are *encouraged" to support.

With each new mailing I first look for the Scientology logo... Just kidding, but... ugh


I always say that I am in the program because I have to be, but I am NOT drinking the Koolaid.
06-06-2013 03:41 PM
Cat Herder
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
Because this country no longer wants child CARE providers.

They want early childhood EDUCATORS.

I truly believe that family child care providers as we know them to be now will NO longer exist within the next 5 (+ or -) years.


Honestly, I DO think that having a CDA should really be a minimum standard. It is NOT hard to get and the education you get IS worth it.

I do NOT think providers should be required to have an actually A.A or A.A.S. degree or higher.
Child Care is already dead... they just have not officially identified the body.

I loved the CDA training... I oppose the continued annual fee fee's, pressured accreditations, mandatory paid memberships in associations that receive money from the afore mentioned fee fees.... just to KEEP the CDA. blah, blah, blah

Not to mention the *recommended purchases* that are constantly pushed on you or the legislative measures you are *encouraged" to support.

With each new mailing I first look for the Scientology logo... Just kidding, but... ugh
06-06-2013 03:41 PM
Heidi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
Because this country no longer wants child CARE providers.

They want early childhood EDUCATORS.

I truly believe that family child care providers as we know them to be now will NO longer exist within the next 5 (+ or -) years.


Honestly, I DO think that having a CDA should really be a minimum standard. It is NOT hard to get and the education you get IS worth it.

I do NOT think providers should be required to have an actually A.A or A.A.S. degree or higher.
I've never had a problem with them requiring some education. But, if you look at our point system, you could score 100% in ALL areas of quality, and if you don't have a degree, you cannot be a 5 star. That is what I take issue with. If you score so high in all areas, then obviously you've learned it somehow, just not in a college classroom. For me, it was lots of research on my own, and tons of CEU's.

So, education should be a component, but not the only deciding factor. Writing a curriculum or doing assessments or providing teacher-led gym class could be components, just not the only deciding factors.

National Accreditation has 228 standards. About 20 of those are non-negotiable. The rest, you have to meet a percentage of to be accredited. If the QRIS were similar, it would be much fairer. Meet 90% of the standards, you are a 5 star, 80-4 star, etc. Or something like that.

It really confuses me that they even have a 1 star. That means, you are about to be shut down due to licensing violations, and you can't accept state-funded kids. What is the point of that?
06-06-2013 03:29 PM
Blackcat31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia View Post
Ok, this thread got really off track, but.still pertains to illegal care, so I'll add this:

If good, long-term providers with clear records and happy families.are being forced into illegal operation by DCF AND STATE SPONSORED PROGRAMS to improve quality.........then something is very Very VERY wrong with this picture. If you can opt out and keep your license, or at least still be LEGAL, then that's unfortunate, but waaaaay better than operating illegally.

"Dear Your State,
QRIS programs are meant to improve quality of child care in our.state. Your program is having the opposite effect when it forces good providers to become criminals if they choose not to participate. Shame on you.
Caregiver".

Because this country no longer wants child CARE providers.

They want early childhood EDUCATORS.

I truly believe that family child care providers as we know them to be now will NO longer exist within the next 5 (+ or -) years.


Honestly, I DO think that having a CDA should really be a minimum standard. It is NOT hard to get and the education you get IS worth it.

I do NOT think providers should be required to have an actually A.A or A.A.S. degree or higher.
06-06-2013 03:22 PM
Leanna
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
Not THINK.... KNOW. I belong to a local providers group. It is often a topic of HEATED discussion.....

It is VERY new here.
Really? Quality Stars is new here and I am afraid it will have the same effect. I am not against regulations/standards/etc. but am worried about how things are being implemented. The last thing the early childhood community needs is to be divided.
06-06-2013 03:19 PM
Heidi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia View Post
Ok, this thread got really off track, but.still pertains to illegal care, so I'll add this:

If good, long-term providers with clear records and happy families.are being forced into illegal operation by DCF AND STATE SPONSORED PROGRAMS to improve quality.........then something is very Very VERY wrong with this picture. If you can opt out and keep your license, or at least still be LEGAL, then that's unfortunate, but waaaaay better than operating illegally.

"Dear Your State,
QRIS programs are meant to improve quality of child care in our.state. Your program is having the opposite effect when it forces good providers to become criminals if they choose not to participate. Shame on you.
Caregiver".


Good luck getting anyone to listen. NAFCCA, AFSCME, and countless provider groups have tried. SOMEBODY is making money on all of it, just not us.
06-06-2013 03:04 PM
Sugar Magnolia Ok, this thread got really off track, but.still pertains to illegal care, so I'll add this:

If good, long-term providers with clear records and happy families.are being forced into illegal operation by DCF AND STATE SPONSORED PROGRAMS to improve quality.........then something is very Very VERY wrong with this picture. If you can opt out and keep your license, or at least still be LEGAL, then that's unfortunate, but waaaaay better than operating illegally.

"Dear Your State,
QRIS programs are meant to improve quality of child care in our.state. Your program is having the opposite effect when it forces good providers to become criminals if they choose not to participate. Shame on you.
Caregiver".
06-06-2013 02:48 PM
BABYLUVER21 Here the state is trying to go to qualistar ratings and ALL family homes will now be required to have a degree or CDA to run their businesses, even the smaller homes. They also have to start participating in the ratings programs. While for the larger homes this can be an advantage, for the small homes it's a huge disadvantage because to get the CDA here (not thru school but thru the state) is over $500 up front to the class start. A lot of smaller home providers cannot afford this. (There are some families that can only take 2-4 children total because own kids count in capacities or because of their sq footage, etc.) It's why we have a lot of unlicensed homes these days. Many licensed homes have ALSo given up their licenses because they know that by January 2014 that they'll be shut down if they don't finish the classes etc...and so it's pointless. Most did keep their families though.
06-06-2013 02:44 PM
Lyss The whole thread makes me sick. Just when you think you hear it all.

I seriously hope this is all just to stir up the pot and not really someone who thinks its totally ok to do things illegally. Its about children, the rules are for their safety! Not wanting to follow them is pure laziness and endangerment, whether you love children or not.

There was a woman that lived down the street from me that had 5 DCKs, a small group by many standards, but 4 were under 15months and the other was barely 2. This is highly illegal, for licensed and unlicensed, in my state because you can only have 2 under 2. She stopped me on the way to the park once because she wanted to chat. She literally said "I just undercut competition by half or so and now I get paid to watch tv" when I told her the laws she replied "well my parents pay in cash so its not traceable and no one can prove otherwise" But hey she must love kids to put up with all those diapers and bottles, so I guess it's ok (I reported her BTW but heard nothing, they moved shortly after so I have no idea what happened but I'm sure she's still at it)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
The sad part is that the "troll" you responded to is NOT the unregistered user that has been continuously posting in this thread (and others) about people minding their own business.

The unregistered poster you replied to did NOT post once in this thread as unregistered so I am completely confused by her statement that someone mentioned she was illegal.

If she is trying to "appear" as if she is the other unregistered user, she has failed.
I wondered about this. The OP kept saying she wasn't illegal and only watched one family, then suddenly the other one popped up and I had to go back to try to figure out where this one came from because it didn't sound like the OP
06-06-2013 02:39 PM
Cat Herder
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leanna View Post
some of you think people are operating illegally due to the rating systems?
Not THINK.... KNOW. I belong to a local providers group. It is often a topic of HEATED discussion.....

It is VERY new here.
06-06-2013 02:34 PM
Leanna
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
Here is your state's site for Quality rating system.

http://qualitystarsny.org/

Each state has different rules but most of the basics are the same.
Yes, that was part of my question...is it like what we have here in NY. But also why some of you think people are operating illegally due to the rating systems?
06-06-2013 02:24 PM
Cat Herder Sugar, we can opt out, but the State is also using our tax dollars to fund a huge TV marketing campaign/commercials to tell parents to avoid us even IF we have had no violations in over 20 years.. and stayed licensed in good faith.

To add insult to injury, the State CCR&R website now only shows two inspections for parents to review, so the new 18 year old/straight out of high school/no experience/living in their parents basement "providers" look better by comparison.

( not even two YEARS, two inspections out of 4 per year)
06-06-2013 02:19 PM
Blackcat31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia View Post
Phew! I thought I might be in trouble for my outburst.
Smelly stinky poo poo pants on trolls.
Your outburst was 100% justified! And appreciated.

I cannot believe anyone can find a logical reason for operating illegally.

It baffles me that those types providers think that just because they love kids, it's all ok.
06-06-2013 02:13 PM
Sugar Magnolia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
The sad part is that the "troll" you responded to is NOT the unregistered user that has been continuously posting in this thread (and others) about people minding their own business.

The unregistered poster you replied to did NOT post once in this thread as unregistered so I am completely confused by her statement that someone mentioned she was illegal.

If she is trying to "appear" as if she is the other unregistered user, she has failed.
Phew! I thought I might be in trouble for my outburst.
Smelly stinky poo poo pants on trolls.
06-06-2013 02:11 PM
Heidi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia View Post
And for Cat too......you can't "opt-out" of the whole QRIS program? And keep your license? We can opt-out, we just can't accept state subsidy without participating. My license and everything would be totally unaffected by opting out. I can't BELIEVE they would force people into illegal operation over NOT participating in a quality improvement plan. And I thought Florida was the capital of BS. Oh my..
At the moment, you can opt-out. But that won't last forever, and when parents look you up on the state website, all those that opted out show up at the bottom of the list. Each in alphabetical order: 5's first, then 4's, then 3's, then 2's, then 1's (those that are about to be shut down) THEN "provider is not participating".
06-06-2013 02:08 PM
Blackcat31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leanna View Post
Just wondering why you think it is because of the rating system? What does it involve?
Here is your state's site for Quality rating system.

http://qualitystarsny.org/

Each state has different rules but most of the basics are the same.
06-06-2013 02:07 PM
Sugar Magnolia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heidi View Post
absolutely they are!
And for Cat too......you can't "opt-out" of the whole QRIS program? And keep your license? We can opt-out, we just can't accept state subsidy without participating. My license and everything would be totally unaffected by opting out. I can't BELIEVE they would force people into illegal operation over NOT participating in a quality improvement plan. And I thought Florida was the capital of BS. Oh my..
06-06-2013 02:06 PM
Blackcat31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia View Post
Cat, I think I was just trolled. I bit. I HOPE this is a troll, because knowingly running an illegal child care is just........grrrrrr .....BLOOD BOILING.
I guess I just take this too seriously. It's not funny, at all. Kwim??
I'm usually pretty mild mannered. Sorry guys. Except for the troll, or the illegal operator, you can kiss my hippy rear end.
The sad part is that the "troll" you responded to is NOT the unregistered user that has been continuously posting in this thread (and others) about people minding their own business.

The unregistered poster you replied to did NOT post once in this thread as unregistered so I am completely confused by her statement that someone mentioned she was illegal.

If she is trying to "appear" as if she is the other unregistered user, she has failed.
06-06-2013 02:00 PM
Heidi Here is our point detail...

http://dcf.wi.gov/youngstar/pdf/point_detail_family.pdf


Without a degree, you cannot be 5 star. Without at least 24 ECE credits, you cannot be a 4, and without 18, cannot be a 3.

Our head of DCF went on the news saying that "2 star programs are the equivalent of receiving a D grade".

The 2 star programs are the providers who reluctantly joined Youngstar because they had to (in order to take state-assisted kids). These are people who in some cases have been providers for years, meet the state's 750+ licensing rules, and sometimes are teachers of various childcare courses. But...they are "D" programs in her eyes.

A lot of people just said F-it, and either went unregulated or illegal, even. No one does anything to the illegals here, for the most part.
06-06-2013 01:50 PM
Cat Herder
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia View Post
Ok, so you are saying people are going from licensed to ILLEGAL? To avoid QRIS? What?!? Omg.....(palm to face) . Oy Vey.
Yes. A few stated it is because even with 20 years of perfect service, you cannot achieve Stars without the College Degree *IN* Child Care/Development.

It was not even available when most of us started and high school seniors are graduating with them in hand, on our tax dollars.

Many providers are just "over it".

I simply printed off HOW they get the STARS and handed that info directly to my clients. They rolled their eyes, laughed and said "We're good.".
06-06-2013 01:48 PM
Heidi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia View Post
Ok, so you are saying people are going from licensed to ILLEGAL? To avoid QRIS? What?!? Omg.....(palm to face) . Oy Vey.
absolutely they are!
06-06-2013 01:48 PM
Leanna
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
The rest dropped their licensing because of this whole QRIS Ratings thing and never looked back. They are not being investigated, either... I bet the States licensed provider "Compliance Percentage" looks great on paper to the Feds though. Beyond frustrating.
Just wondering why you think it is because of the rating system? What does it involve?
06-06-2013 01:44 PM
Sugar Magnolia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
Oh, I know... believe me. I am swimming in illegal daycares. Two providers within 5 miles are related to me. They have the audacity to try to use me as their reference...

It has always been a hot topic button for me.

My whole *large* county only has two LEGAL home providers... we keep a total of 12 kids between us. With only two commercial centers in 10 miles..... Well, you do the math.

The rest dropped their licensing because of this whole QRIS Ratings thing and never looked back. They are not being investigated, either... I bet the States licensed provider "Compliance Percentage" looks great on paper to the Feds though. Beyond frustrating.
Ok, so you are saying people are going from licensed to ILLEGAL? To avoid QRIS? What?!? Omg.....(palm to face) . Oy Vey.
06-06-2013 01:44 PM
Heidi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
Oh, I know... believe me. I am swimming in illegal daycares. Two providers within 5 miles are related to me. They have the audacity to try to use me as their reference...

It has always been a hot topic button for me.

My whole *large* county only has two LEGAL home providers... we keep a total of 12 kids between us. With only two commercial centers in 10 miles..... Well, you do the math.

The rest dropped their licensing because of this whole QRIS Ratings thing and never looked back. They are not being investigated, either... I bet the States licensed provider "Compliance Percentage" looks great on paper to the Feds though. Beyond frustrating.


Wisconsin lost a lot of legal providers when they went to Youngstar (our QRIS) as well. I'm sure not all of those people are out of business. They just went underground, or they take less kids. They can't take state-funded kids unless they're regulated, so it's all private-pay.

I'm considering dropping my license next time around as well (but not operating illegally). There is only so much "they" can keep heaping on us for what amounts to less than minimum wage.
06-06-2013 01:38 PM
Cat Herder
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia View Post
Cat, I think I was just trolled. I bit. I HOPE this is a troll, because knowingly running an illegal child care is just........grrrrrr .....BLOOD BOILING.
I guess I just take this too seriously. It's not funny, at all. Kwim??
I'm usually pretty mild mannered. Sorry guys. Except for the troll, or the illegal operator, you can kiss my hippy rear end.
Oh, I know... believe me. I am swimming in illegal daycares. Two providers within 5 miles are related to me. They have the audacity to try to use me as their reference...

It has always been a hot topic button for me.

My whole *large* county only has two LEGAL home providers... we keep a total of 12 kids between us. With only two commercial centers in 10 miles..... Well, you do the math.

The rest dropped their licensing because of this whole QRIS Ratings thing and never looked back. They are not being investigated, either... I bet the States licensed provider "Compliance Percentage" looks great on paper to the Feds though. Beyond frustrating.
06-06-2013 01:32 PM
Sugar Magnolia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
WOW Sugar.....

I know I have not been on as much as I used to be but.... You, my dear, have blossomed into a bad @$$.

Maybe you should be Steel Magnolia, now....
Cat, I think I was just trolled. I bit. I HOPE this is a troll, because knowingly running an illegal child care is just........grrrrrr .....BLOOD BOILING.
I guess I just take this too seriously. It's not funny, at all. Kwim??
I'm usually pretty mild mannered. Sorry guys. Except for the troll, or the illegal operator, you can kiss my hippy rear end.
06-06-2013 01:22 PM
Cat Herder
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia View Post
You are LAZY. And SELFISH. Good luck with your illegal operation. Licensing won't be "running" your business. Get legal or get the ==== out.
WOW Sugar.....

I know I have not been on as much as I used to be but.... You, my dear, have blossomed into a bad @$$.

Maybe you should be Steel Magnolia, now....
06-06-2013 01:14 PM
Sugar Magnolia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Somebody mentioned that I might be illegal and the answer is yes. According to my state I can only watch 3 kids including my own and I have 3 kids myself. I currently have 1 family with 2 children and 1 part time child who comes 2 days a week. If I was licensed I could be watching 6 - 8 kids. And background checks can be done if a parent requests it and just because someone can pass a background check meana nothing there are licensed daycare that have been reported for abuse. All the ppaperwork required by the state takes way to much time and like someone said they would be running my business not me
You are LAZY. And SELFISH. Good luck with your illegal operation. Licensing won't be "running" your business. Get legal or get the ==== out.
06-06-2013 01:04 PM
BABYLUVER21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heidi View Post
I don't understand. Are you arguing that if someone wants to do illegal daycare that we should mind our own business and let it go?

How about if they want to drive illegally? Lets say they have DWI's up the wazoo or just never took the test?

Decide to open a restaurant from their home next door, without benefit of inspections, licenses, or training of any kind (hey...mom was a great cook).

Decide to cut hair, give perms, or offer tanning services without a license or oversight?

A liquor store or bar?

Want to sell pot or cocaine just down the block?

Where would you draw the line?

Funny thing is, I think some regulations or laws are just plain over-the-top. But does it mean I should only follow the ones I like, because breaking them "isn't hurting anyone".

It DOES hurt someone...those people who made the commitment and took the time to "jump through all the hoops".

If you don't like a law, you can lobby your congress person. But, breaking the law in the meantime is still not okay.
You know what's funny about all that? It is happening EVERY DAY! All of those things you listed, people are doing.

On one hand, it sucks that we have to be regulated for every little thing and that some people may do these things for family and friends and be successful without all the red tape.

On the OTHER hand, people doing it for strangers getting paid without being taxed, without having to pay for permits, without having to be held accountable for anything doing it, taking potential income from others who ARE following all the laws.

AND as consumers, we have limited rights if something goes wrong with someone who is unlicensed/unregulated.
06-06-2013 12:19 PM
CedarCreek
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Somebody mentioned that I might be illegal and the answer is yes. According to my state I can only watch 3 kids including my own and I have 3 kids myself. I currently have 1 family with 2 children and 1 part time child who comes 2 days a week. If I was licensed I could be watching 6 - 8 kids. And background checks can be done if a parent requests it and just because someone can pass a background check meana nothing there are licensed daycare that have been reported for abuse. All the ppaperwork required by the state takes way to much time and like someone said they would be running my business not me
Your begging for it. I hope someone reports you.
06-06-2013 12:17 PM
Blackcat31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Somebody mentioned that I might be illegal and the answer is yes. According to my state I can only watch 3 kids including my own and I have 3 kids myself. I currently have 1 family with 2 children and 1 part time child who comes 2 days a week. If I was licensed I could be watching 6 - 8 kids. And background checks can be done if a parent requests it and just because someone can pass a background check meana nothing there are licensed daycare that have been reported for abuse. All the ppaperwork required by the state takes way to much time and like someone said they would be running my business not me
This is really sad.

If you truly care about the children you watch, why would getting licensed be so difficult?

I don't buy or except the excuse that the paperwork takes too long.

KNOWINGLY providing care that is ILLEGAL sheds a bad light on ALL providers.

KNOWINGLY providing care that is ILLEGAL says alot about your own morals and values.

Do ALL of your child care parents know that you are operating ILLEGALLY? Not that you aren't licensed but that you are actually illegal but that should you get shut down, they would immediately lose their child care?

I also wonder about the legal ramifications of this...is your contract still valid? Would it be upheld in a court of law if a parent were to use your illegal operation against you?

Whew.....that is really a huge risk (on many levels) to take IMHO.
06-06-2013 12:14 PM
Heidi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
Just throwing this out there....

What do you think would happen if CPS started holding PARENTS who choose illegal daycare for their children responsible for their choice?

I know if they let them ride without a seatbelt (also illegal) they are held accountable.

What is the difference?

I think that will be the new topic for letters to my representatives. I am just babysitting, anyway... I have lots of free time while they sit in front of the TV. OK, too far, was asked for free childcare by a acquaintance again today, ya know "since you are home". Feeling punchy.... Sorry.
I have never been asked for free childcare. I'll count myself lucky.

As for CPS, I think they have bigger fish to fry, but I sure wish DCF would concentrate more on that, and less on trying to reinvent the wheel by raising the bar higher and higher for us. Wisconsin has some of the most stringent licensing laws in the country, yet they keep coming up with stuff to add to our load.
06-06-2013 11:53 AM
Cat Herder Just throwing this out there....

What do you think would happen if CPS started holding PARENTS who choose illegal daycare for their children responsible for their choice?

I know if they let them ride without a seatbelt (also illegal) they are held accountable.

What is the difference?

I think that will be the new topic for letters to my representatives. I am just babysitting, anyway... I have lots of free time while they sit in front of the TV. OK, too far, was asked for free childcare by a acquaintance again today, ya know "since you are home". Feeling punchy.... Sorry.
06-06-2013 11:46 AM
Patches
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Somebody mentioned that I might be illegal and the answer is yes. According to my state I can only watch 3 kids including my own and I have 3 kids myself. I currently have 1 family with 2 children and 1 part time child who comes 2 days a week. If I was licensed I could be watching 6 - 8 kids. And background checks can be done if a parent requests it and just because someone can pass a background check meana nothing there are licensed daycare that have been reported for abuse. All the ppaperwork required by the state takes way to much time and like someone said they would be running my business not me
This sounds a little bit troll-ish to me
06-06-2013 11:42 AM
Unregistered Somebody mentioned that I might be illegal and the answer is yes. According to my state I can only watch 3 kids including my own and I have 3 kids myself. I currently have 1 family with 2 children and 1 part time child who comes 2 days a week. If I was licensed I could be watching 6 - 8 kids. And background checks can be done if a parent requests it and just because someone can pass a background check meana nothing there are licensed daycare that have been reported for abuse. All the ppaperwork required by the state takes way to much time and like someone said they would be running my business not me
06-05-2013 05:59 PM
EntropyControlSpecialist
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
Heck, I AM a LEGALLY licensed provider and I don't love my DCK's (I like them and grow rather fond of them though ) and I am certainly not a sweetheart as I can be rather difficult to deal with at times.
I was going to say the same exact thing. I like the daycare kids, but I do this as a job to earn income.

I am also licensed. It didn't cost a lot for me to become licensed, however the standards by which I have to abide by are strict and lengthy (200+ pages worth of standards). I had 6 unannounced visits within the past 13 months from the state licensing department just to verify that I was upholding all of the regulations. I have nothing to hide and am willing to do what it takes to ensure other people's children's safety.
There are other options in my state for those that don't want to be subjected to all of these regulations and visits. However, there is ALSO the option to be illegal and if you choose that route in this state you quite obviously have something to hide since the other options require a very, very small fee and very little involvement from the state beyond a background check.

When I see people attempting to operate illegal daycares I always provide information to them concerning the states requirements in a kind way to give them the benefit of the doubt. Some are quite rude since they are aware that they are operating illegally, while others are quite gracious because they simply did not know.
06-05-2013 04:25 PM
Sugar Magnolia Heidi,

We are wasting our breath. The unregistered poster is a staunch supporter of illegal daycare.
Never thought I'd see the day when someone here posted that. Unreal. I agree with Happy Hearts.
06-05-2013 03:07 PM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Hearts View Post
Well, we all know you are unethical.
WHAT! GET over it! This does not even deserve a reply as it is a very stupid statement you made.
06-05-2013 02:42 PM
Heidi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
To Black cat,

Thank you for understanding me. I appreciate it.

As far as this poster I'm posting a reply to,
Wow you are taking this way out of proportion. That is all I will say.
See...that's the easy answer. Because, you may think that I'm blowing it out of proportion, and in a way, I was (to make the point).

It's just a tired statement "they're not hurting anyone". It DOES hurt someone.

State regs. are in place to help insure the health and safety of it's people. They aren't guarantees, and sometimes they're even unreasonable, but they are what they are, and we don't get to pick-and-choose which ones are okay to break.
06-05-2013 02:32 PM
Happy Hearts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Seriously - lets stop now.You want to seem to drag this on and on.
Just leave it as WE All, illegal or legal love taking care of kids!! However we choose to do it, it's the fact that if it wasn't for us daycare providers, who would watch the kids while the parents are at work, what would parents do.
I'm not going to respond to any more of your replies as I am done with this subject as it seems it means something to you as far as illegal or legal and not whether or not anyone gives good care or is qualified to care for a child even if they are doing it not quite by the book. A inspection,a piece of paper saying you went through classes does not make you a better care giver then anyone else. I am an excellent caregiver, love the kids and always give them the best care that I can.

If you can never take someone's word for it and never use your instinct, then you must have trust issues. How can I take YOUR word for it that you are a good provider, a piece of paper is not saying that you may be. Not tying to pick a fight, but
you get my drift.

Enough is Enough. I'm done with his subject. I'm not trying to sound like I am any better then you, just tying to say that however we have chosen to do daycare the fact is that we all are doing it because we love the kids.
It's been nice chatting with you, it is so nice to have this website for support and talking to other provides.
Well, we all know you are unethical.
06-05-2013 02:14 PM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
To Black cat,

Thank you for understanding me. I appreciate it.

As far as this poster I'm posting a reply to,
Wow you are taking this way out of proportion. That is all I will say.
Blackcat
I was not replying to you about the Wow commnet, it was to the poster that posted right after my one before this one. Sorry.
06-05-2013 02:09 PM
Unregistered To Black cat,

Thank you for understanding me. I appreciate it.

As far as this poster I'm posting a reply to,
Wow you are taking this way out of proportion. That is all I will say.
06-05-2013 01:54 PM
Heidi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Blackcat, I respect your opinion. I AM doing my daycare legally with only caring for 2 children from one family, so there is no issue there and that is why I only care for one family because of it being legal. What anyone else chooses to do is really none of my concern and none of my business as for all the rest of you.Your doing what your doing as you believe and that is what everyone else is doing.
I do not have to answer any other of your questions, my WORD is good, I am a good person, a caring person and if you don't take my word for anything, then that is your choice.
Whether people do daycare for just the money or whatever, but being a daycare provider is not easy work, long hours, screaming kids, poopy pants,teaching the kids, if your doing daycare and you don't even like kids, that makes no sense to me, so however we chose to do it, we should not be criticized for how we do it and if we are legal or not.Parents will know if we are good or not and if we are not good then they have the choice to take their kids to someone else.
I chose to do daycare for one family,that is my business, no one else's.
So please don't judge people on how they choose to do their daycare, it is their business and only their business.
I don't understand. Are you arguing that if someone wants to do illegal daycare that we should mind our own business and let it go?

How about if they want to drive illegally? Lets say they have DWI's up the wazoo or just never took the test?

Decide to open a restaurant from their home next door, without benefit of inspections, licenses, or training of any kind (hey...mom was a great cook).

Decide to cut hair, give perms, or offer tanning services without a license or oversight?

A liquor store or bar?

Want to sell pot or cocaine just down the block?

Where would you draw the line?

Funny thing is, I think some regulations or laws are just plain over-the-top. But does it mean I should only follow the ones I like, because breaking them "isn't hurting anyone".

It DOES hurt someone...those people who made the commitment and took the time to "jump through all the hoops".

If you don't like a law, you can lobby your congress person. But, breaking the law in the meantime is still not okay.
06-05-2013 01:54 PM
Blackcat31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Blackcat, I respect your opinion. I AM doing my daycare legally with only caring for 2 children from one family, so there is no issue there and that is why I only care for one family because of it being legal. What anyone else chooses to do is really none of my concern and none of my business as for all the rest of you.Your doing what your doing as you believe and that is what everyone else is doing.
I do not have to answer any other of your questions, my WORD is good, I am a good person, a caring person and if you don't take my word for anything, then that is your choice.
Whether people do daycare for just the money or whatever, but being a daycare provider is not easy work, long hours, screaming kids, poopy pants,teaching the kids, if your doing daycare and you don't even like kids, that makes no sense to me, so however we chose to do it, we should not be criticized for how we do it and if we are legal or not.Parents will know if we are good or not and if we are not good then they have the choice to take their kids to someone else.
I chose to do daycare for one family,that is my business, no one else's.
So please don't judge people on how they choose to do their daycare, it is their business and only their business.
FWIW~ You ARE doing what works for you and doing it LEGALLY so I have NO issue with that at all.

As a matter of fact, I respect you for following the state's guidelines.

My only issue is illegal providers.

If that isn't you then I am definitely NOT judging you or passing judgment towards you.

Anyone doing anything illegally though deserves and asks to be judged.

I can't help that.
06-05-2013 01:47 PM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
Um, you are the one who re--posted and continued to make your point so not sure where you are getting that I am the one dragging it out... but whatever...

I have repeatedly posted because you have still NOT answered any of the questions that have been posed to you. You just keep saying the same thing.

That you are a good provider who loves kids.

So what? How does anyone actually know that? How can you really be in support of a provider who would choose to operate illegally?

How can you not understand how much of an impact that has on others?

How can you seriously be alright with someone breaking the law?

"Gee, officer I really really really love to drive fast so don't give me a ticket for speeding. I normally follow all the rules for driving safe but since I just love to drive fast I don't think I deserve a ticket." ~ See how ridiculous that thought process is?

And you don't have to take my word. You can see my inspection report and that verifies AND supports my words.

In other words, that is PROOF that I am following regulations.

You can't prove that you are following rules/regs other than simply saying so. It isn't a matter of instincts or trust. It is a matter of following the law.

I don't know how to say that any clearer.

Again, just because you say you love children and want to provide good care to them doesn't mean you actually are. (I am NOT saying you aren't...just trying to point out that again, words mean nothing as far as proof goes.)

For the record, I NEVER once said I was better than you. I never even implied that....

......and you are darned right it means something to me that providers are or aren't legally or illegally unlicensed. Why would it not?

I've dedicated over 2 decades of my life to providing legally licensed care to children so when others who choose to do the same thing but NOT follow the law, then I feel it is well within my rights to feel strongly about it.

Blackcat, I respect your opinion. I AM doing my daycare legally with only caring for 2 children from one family, so there is no issue there and that is why I only care for one family because of it being legal. What anyone else chooses to do is really none of my concern and none of my business as for all the rest of you.Your doing what your doing as you believe and that is what everyone else is doing.
I do not have to answer any other of your questions, my WORD is good, I am a good person, a caring person and if you don't take my word for anything, then that is your choice.
Whether people do daycare for just the money or whatever, but being a daycare provider is not easy work, long hours, screaming kids, poopy pants,teaching the kids, if your doing daycare and you don't even like kids, that makes no sense to me, so however we chose to do it, we should not be criticized for how we do it and if we are legal or not.Parents will know if we are good or not and if we are not good then they have the choice to take their kids to someone else.
I chose to do daycare for one family,that is my business, no one else's.
So please don't judge people on how they choose to do their daycare, it is their business and only their business.
06-05-2013 01:35 PM
Heidi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heidi View Post
I hadn't really read this thread until today. I am really considering not renewing my license next time around, but I will be operating legally unlicensed if that's the case.

Why?

Because I am feeling like the Gov't has is becoming so overly involved in how I run my business. It's gone beyond health and safety long ago. Since I generally have only 3-4 kids, and without a license I can have 3, I wouldn't even be losing anything except a lot of work. I would continue to keep my CPR and other training up-to-date, and I'd keep my licensing handbook handy as a guideline.
ok...while I was typing this, others were also typing. I am in no way condoning ILLEGAL care, nor do I intend to provide illegal care. Just so we're all clear here.
06-05-2013 01:16 PM
MissSarah
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia View Post
wow! 18??? Holy Toledo. Outrageous

Well, she is just doing it because she "loves kids", not for the illegal cash she is raking in. (sorry to beat the "unregistered" dead horse again)

Yep, there is plenty of money in state budgets, but the urgency isn't there. Until someone dies. THEN there will be a public outcry. For a
. Then it will go back on the back burner.
(bolding mine)

This is why it is important to point out the difference between ILLEGAL and UNLICENSED. When something tragic does happen the focus is put in the wrong place.

Here in BC there was a death that occurred in an ILLEGAL unlicensed family home daycare. The woman was caring for 6 children while only legally allowed to care for 2. In the news report they repeatedly said UNLICENSED instead of ILLEGAL. There is a huge difference between the two but unfortunately people who watched the news report may automatically assume they are the same thing. I am unlicensed but am doing nothing wrong and I am completely LEGAL and I don't like being lumped in with someone who chooses to break the law.
06-05-2013 01:09 PM
Heidi I hadn't really read this thread until today. I am really considering not renewing my license next time around, but I will be operating legally unlicensed if that's the case.

Why?

Because I am feeling like the Gov't has is becoming so overly involved in how I run my business. It's gone beyond health and safety long ago. Since I generally have only 3-4 kids, and without a license I can have 3, I wouldn't even be losing anything except a lot of work. I would continue to keep my CPR and other training up-to-date, and I'd keep my licensing handbook handy as a guideline.
06-05-2013 01:08 PM
Blackcat31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Seriously - lets stop now.You want to seem to drag this on and on.
Just leave it as WE All, illegal or legal love taking care of kids!! However we choose to do it, it's the fact that if it wasn't for us daycare providers, who would watch the kids while the parents are at work, what would parents do.
I'm not going to respond to any more of your replies as I am done with this subject as it seems it means something to you as far as illegal or legal and not whether or not anyone gives good care or is qualified to care for a child even if they are doing it not quite by the book. A inspection,a piece of paper saying you went through classes does not make you a better care giver then anyone else. I am an excellent caregiver, love the kids and always give them the best care that I can.

If you can never take someone's word for it and never use your instinct, then you must have trust issues. How can I take YOUR word for it that you are a good provider, a piece of paper is not saying that you may be. Not tying to pick a fight, but
you get my drift.

Enough is Enough. I'm done with his subject. I'm not trying to sound like I am any better then you, just tying to say that however we have chosen to do daycare the fact is that we all are doing it because we love the kids.
It's been nice chatting with you, it is so nice to have this website for support and talking to other provides.
Um, you are the one who re--posted and continued to make your point so not sure where you are getting that I am the one dragging it out... but whatever...

I have repeatedly posted because you have still NOT answered any of the questions that have been posed to you. You just keep saying the same thing.

That you are a good provider who loves kids.

So what? How does anyone actually know that? How can you really be in support of a provider who would choose to operate illegally?

How can you not understand how much of an impact that has on others?

How can you seriously be alright with someone breaking the law?

"Gee, officer I really really really love to drive fast so don't give me a ticket for speeding. I normally follow all the rules for driving safe but since I just love to drive fast I don't think I deserve a ticket." ~ See how ridiculous that thought process is?

And you don't have to take my word. You can see my inspection report and that verifies AND supports my words.

In other words, that is PROOF that I am following regulations.

You can't prove that you are following rules/regs other than simply saying so. It isn't a matter of instincts or trust. It is a matter of following the law.

I don't know how to say that any clearer.

Again, just because you say you love children and want to provide good care to them doesn't mean you actually are. (I am NOT saying you aren't...just trying to point out that again, words mean nothing as far as proof goes.)

For the record, I NEVER once said I was better than you. I never even implied that....

......and you are darned right it means something to me that providers are or aren't legally or illegally unlicensed. Why would it not?

I've dedicated over 2 decades of my life to providing legally licensed care to children so when others who choose to do the same thing but NOT follow the law, then I feel it is well within my rights to feel strongly about it.
06-05-2013 01:07 PM
Sugar Magnolia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Seriously - lets stop now.You want to seem to drag this on and on.
Just leave it as WE All, illegal or legal love taking care of kids!! However we choose to do it, it's the fact that if it wasn't for us daycare providers, who would watch the kids while the parents are at work, what would parents do.
I'm not going to respond to any more of your replies as I am done with this subject as it seems it means something to you as far as illegal or legal and not whether or not anyone gives good care or is qualified to care for a child even if they are doing it not quite by the book. A inspection,a piece of paper saying you went through classes does not make you a better care giver then anyone else. I am an excellent caregiver, love the kids and always give them the best care that I can.

If you can never take someone's word for it and never use your instinct, then you must have trust issues. How can I take YOUR word for it that you are a good provider, a piece of paper is not saying that you may be. Not tying to pick a fight, but
you get my drift.

Enough is Enough. I'm done with his subject. I'm not trying to sound like I am any better then you, just tying to say that however we have chosen to do daycare the fact is that we all are doing it because we love the kids.
It's been nice chatting with you, it is so nice to have this website for support and talking to other provides.
WRONG, WRONG AND WRONG! Outrageous statement. Read the post by Crystal above. That lady loved kids? Gimme a break! And read what Heidi just wrote! No, doesn't do.18 kids illegally because she loves kids, but because she loves $$$.
As for not taking people's "word" for it, I suspect you are operating illegally, otherwise WHY would you support BREAKING THE LAW?? Oh, but you won't reply, because you're "done with this thread. "

". Awesome!
06-05-2013 01:04 PM
Heidi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia View Post
wow! 18??? Holy Toledo. Outrageous

Well, she is just doing it because she "loves kids", not for the illegal cash she is raking in. (sorry to beat the "unregistered" dead horse again)

Yep, there is plenty of money in state budgets, but the urgency isn't there. Until someone dies. THEN there will be a public outcry. For a
. Then it will go back on the back burner.
I very nearly choked when my PA told me how "wonderful" this person was because she "sometimes even does care for free when parents can't afford it".

In the meantime, the provider's brand-new house was HUGE. The day I visited, she was serving afternoon snack. A box of animal crackers, which the children would walk or crawl over to her for, and she'd give them handfuls. Like feeding bread to the ducks at the park...lol.

What really pisses me off is that she shut down due to being "harassed" by licensing, then reopened a few months later. She tells people that she "has her license back" (she was regulated at one time, NEVER licensed), and they believe her. We have to post our license, but of course, parents don't know this.

People in the community just say "oh well, as long as she's taking good care of the kids".

Um....she had 18 kids there, what does "taking care of them" mean to you?
06-05-2013 01:00 PM
Willow Unregistered - pervs and money grubbers can also be drawn to doing daycare. That's not opinion, it's common sense and fact.

Not by a long shot does everyone who provides care have good intentions. Many don't even LIKE kids.

Saying instinct alone can pick every one of those individuals with bad intentions out is beyond insanity......I just don't believe a rational person could ever actually believe such a thing......
06-05-2013 12:58 PM
Sugar Magnolia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heidi View Post
THIS is my (biggest) problem with the state's QRIS programs. Heaping more stuff to do on the regulated providers, and completely ignoring the illegal ones who have 8, or 12, or 18 kids in their homes without any regulation at all. Seriously, I visited one who had 12 kids by herself, and as I drove away, 6 more got off the school bus. My God, what if there was a fire? 18 kids, 12 of who were under 5, and several of them under 2!

It's not that there is a LACK of money so much as a lack of priorities. Someone is getting that money; someone has a stake in it, and that's the problem.
wow! 18??? Holy Toledo. Outrageous

Well, she is just doing it because she "loves kids", not for the illegal cash she is raking in. (sorry to beat the "unregistered" dead horse again)

Yep, there is plenty of money in state budgets, but the urgency isn't there. Until someone dies. THEN there will be a public outcry. For a
. Then it will go back on the back burner.
06-05-2013 12:52 PM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
I understand what you are trying to say but if a provider is ILLEGALLY operating, how do we KNOW that they are or aren't following the rules and regulations?

If a provider is operating illegally, she isn't subject to unannounced inspections so there is NO way to know that she is or isn't following those guidelines other than her word.

...and I would NEVER take someone's word for something, especially if they were operating illegally because if they are willing to take that risk then their word is definitely not worth much...kwim?

Seriously - lets stop now.You want to seem to drag this on and on.
Just leave it as WE All, illegal or legal love taking care of kids!! However we choose to do it, it's the fact that if it wasn't for us daycare providers, who would watch the kids while the parents are at work, what would parents do.
I'm not going to respond to any more of your replies as I am done with this subject as it seems it means something to you as far as illegal or legal and not whether or not anyone gives good care or is qualified to care for a child even if they are doing it not quite by the book. A inspection,a piece of paper saying you went through classes does not make you a better care giver then anyone else. I am an excellent caregiver, love the kids and always give them the best care that I can.

If you can never take someone's word for it and never use your instinct, then you must have trust issues. How can I take YOUR word for it that you are a good provider, a piece of paper is not saying that you may be. Not tying to pick a fight, but
you get my drift.

Enough is Enough. I'm done with his subject. I'm not trying to sound like I am any better then you, just tying to say that however we have chosen to do daycare the fact is that we all are doing it because we love the kids.
It's been nice chatting with you, it is so nice to have this website for support and talking to other provides.
06-05-2013 12:43 PM
Heidi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia View Post
Awesome! Way to go NY!
That is EXACTLY what needs to happen in all 50 states.
Think of the resources dedicated to fighting the so-called War on Drugs and busting prostitutes and incarcerating non violent drug offenses. Divert.a fraction of that $$ to protecting children AND improving and expanding subsidized child.care for thepoor. Yes, I said it, more government. But I digress. Sorry.
THIS is my (biggest) problem with the state's QRIS programs. Heaping more stuff to do on the regulated providers, and completely ignoring the illegal ones who have 8, or 12, or 18 kids in their homes without any regulation at all. Seriously, I visited one who had 12 kids by herself, and as I drove away, 6 more got off the school bus. My God, what if there was a fire? 18 kids, 12 of who were under 5, and several of them under 2!

It's not that there is a LACK of money so much as a lack of priorities. Someone is getting that money; someone has a stake in it, and that's the problem.
06-05-2013 12:31 PM
Sugar Magnolia CraftyMissBeth.....every time I see your screen name, I get "She's Crafty" by the Beastie Boys stuck in my head.
Thanks for the great thread, but not the ear worm!
06-05-2013 12:25 PM
Sugar Magnolia
Quote:
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth View Post
For clarification, in EVERY. SINGLE. POST that I have posted on this thread, I am referring to ILLEGALLY unlicensed daycare providers in the state of Kansas.


I truly appreciate everyones feedback and I'm truly sorry if it came across that I disapprove of unlicensed providers. In the state I live in, there is a very small window of opportunity for providers to even be legally unlicensed, so my opinion on unlicensed vs licensed is pretty close to irrelevant.
I can see why there was some confusion initially, but we cleared that up, I think. I have a licensed center, and I jump through many licensing hoops, not because I need the exercise, but because I MUST and it's the right thing to do. Unlicensed is fine, if it is legal. No issues there, they are following the law and providing quality care.

I want to thank you for starting the thread. Like the gal in NY who said they are cracking.down on illegal care, this is an important and relevant problem. It effects us all.
06-05-2013 12:22 PM
melilley
Quote:
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth View Post
operating illegally would most definitely be not following the rules. I'm the OP and I very clearly stated, as did most of the other posters, that I am not against unlicensed provideds, but illegal providers. I'm not trying to be rude, but I don't know how else to say it to get my point across
I get your point...lol You can't always make everyone understand what you are saying and some people won't ever get it, what can you do?
06-05-2013 12:20 PM
Willow
Quote:
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth View Post
For clarification, in EVERY. SINGLE. POST that I have posted on this thread, I am referring to ILLEGALLY unlicensed daycare providers in the state of Kansas.


I truly appreciate everyones feedback and I'm truly sorry if it came across that I disapprove of unlicensed providers. In the state I live in, there is a very small window of opportunity for providers to even be legally unlicensed, so my opinion on unlicensed vs licensed is pretty close to irrelevant.

All but one poster grasps your point well crafty, and I'm sure at this point that one is just intentionally trying to stir the pot.


No need to clarify, the rest of us are all in agreement with you
06-05-2013 12:16 PM
Willow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
I actually do pay nothing to be licensed.

My county does the background checks for free.

Getting a license is NOT hard in this state.

Personally, I feel we are one of the most lax states when it comes to costs associated with licensing and with regulations and standards.
See now back in Benton I don't remember paying for background checks but I do know there was a license fee. It wasn't anything outrageous but when I moved and asked my new licensor how much I should make my check out for she was like, huh, what??

I have no idea about other states but it always boggles my mind when people say it's expensive. Unless your home itself is unsafe I just don't see how. I mean shouldn't that matter that its deemed unsafe for your own *family* even more so than talking about it merely being a hoop to jump through to operate a business out of it??
06-05-2013 12:10 PM
craftymissbeth For clarification, in EVERY. SINGLE. POST that I have posted on this thread, I am referring to ILLEGALLY unlicensed daycare providers in the state of Kansas.


I truly appreciate everyones feedback and I'm truly sorry if it came across that I disapprove of unlicensed providers. In the state I live in, there is a very small window of opportunity for providers to even be legally unlicensed, so my opinion on unlicensed vs licensed is pretty close to irrelevant.
06-05-2013 12:05 PM
Sugar Magnolia Willow, yep yep yep! Thank you!
06-05-2013 12:05 PM
Blackcat31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia View Post
And who the heck thinks ALL illegalproviders love kids and are sweethearts?
Heck, I AM a LEGALLY licensed provider and I don't love my DCK's (I like them and grow rather fond of them though ) and I am certainly not a sweetheart as I can be rather difficult to deal with at times.
06-05-2013 12:02 PM
Blackcat31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willow View Post
The money thing is geographical and otherwise entirely a matter of perspective. I pay *nothing* for my daycare license unless you count the $50 background check. Everything else involved: my trainings, having a first aide kit, maintaining a safe home, keeping my fire extinguishers in working order etc. - are all things I consider necessary to keeping my own children and family safe anyway. I would do them regardless of daycare licensing protocol.
I actually do pay nothing to be licensed.

My county does the background checks for free.

Getting a license is NOT hard in this state.

Personally, I feel we are one of the most lax states when it comes to costs associated with licensing and with regulations and standards.
06-05-2013 12:01 PM
Willow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
All I was trying to say is that at least, however we as providers run our business, we all love the kids and have chosen to be a daycare provider.

As long as you follow the rules for either way,there should be no one telling us how we should run our daycare as people are trying to say with all these posts.

So as long as illicit drug dealers follow the same protocol when dispensing their cocaine as legitimate pharmacists do when dispensing antibiotics they should TOTALLY be considered on the same playing field then.......
06-05-2013 12:00 PM
Sugar Magnolia And who the heck thinks ALL illegalproviders love kids and are sweethearts? I bet those operating ILLEGALLY are not so awesome, and are fully aware they are breaking the law. It's for.$$$, easy money with no oversight.
06-05-2013 11:59 AM
craftymissbeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
All I was trying to say is that at least, however we as providers run our business, we all love the kids and have chosen to be a daycare provider.

As long as you follow the rules for either way,there should be no one telling us how we should run our daycare as people are trying to say with all these posts.
operating illegally would most definitely be not following the rules. I'm the OP and I very clearly stated, as did most of the other posters, that I am not against unlicensed provideds, but illegal providers. I'm not trying to be rude, but I don't know how else to say it to get my point across
06-05-2013 11:59 AM
SquirrellyMama
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia View Post
unregistered....
Um, we are discussing ILLEGALLY OPERATING A CHILD CARE! NO ONE is saying unlicensed is bad. Illegal is bad. It's really not that confusing. Should I get out the dictionary?
Oy Vey!

I agree with blackcat...btw.
I think some of the problem is that in some states it is illegal no matter what and other states it is legal to be unlicensed. So, in some posts when the poster says unlicensed in her state that means illegal. Other posters are possibly assuming they are talking about all unlicensed care.

I know the OP specifically stated illegal but others haven't used the word illegal or they had a long post and only used it in the first sentence and then started to just use unlicensed.

This was my mistake in reading some so I'm thinking maybe others did the same thing.

There is a post that starts out saying in their state it is illegal to be unlicensed period but by the time I got to the end I was thinking she was just talking legally unlicensed.

I'm thinking this is why people are defending their legally unlicensed care. Does that make sense?

K
06-05-2013 11:58 AM
Willow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I am the poster of the original post above this quote, first let me say that I am a former nurse and have had all the training you need to take care of a child,second I have had two children of my own,now have families of their own. I did not need any extra training courses to raise my own kids, I raised them just fine. Do you think that women need to be licensed to raise their own kids? I know that's a loaded question, but seriously, if a women can raise her own children, then why does she need to be licensed to care for others...I know this sounds ridiculous, but it just makes a point.

As far as the licensed daycare home being dirty, no that is not the case with every licensed daycare home, but in turn does that mean that all unlicensed daycare homes are unsafe or dirty ? No, it doesn't.

Some of us unlicensed providers just choose to only care for a few kids and not make it a career, but want to do it because we love the little ones. That does not make us bad people or not responsible. It does cost a lot to be licensed and for just taking a couple kids,from the same family, it is hard for people to afford to do updates on their homes to be licensed for one thing. If you plan on making it a career and have the money to do that , then go for it.

I just don't think it is fair to judge providers for whatever choice they make,whether they are licensed or not and how they advertise. It really is nobody's business on how we conduct our own daycare business, it is up to each provider to as how they do things and their choices. It is hard enough to find kids theses days anyway as many people are losing their jobs, money is tight and they are having to pull their kids out of daycare or look for cheaper ways of finding care.

So lets not nit pic about whether one provider is licensed or not and how they advertise. Initially it is up to parents to choose the right provider for their child and there preferences.

Naw, let's please nitpick some.

I happen to think it's great fun depending on the topic

CPR instruction has changed even in the last 5 years. Certification is only good for a year or two and for very good reason. Science discovers new bits about health and human biology all the time. As a nurse I would expect you to know that?? What was once considered best practice as far as breaths to compressions go is now considered outdated at best, dangerous at worst. You need to stay current if you expect to have the most relevant and best life saving techniques under your belt.

THAT ABSOLUTELY MATTERS TO THE CHILDREN IN ANYONE'S CARE.

When knowing and not knowing is literally a matter of life and death - YES. IT MATTERS.

While it was wonderful I took CPR in high school, what I was taught then is nothing like I'd ever do now. Most people are saved by CURRENT CPR practice than ever before. The reason for that? It's evolved drastically.

So unless you were a former nurse as in a year former, your training is no longer current and what you think you know as correct could in fact at this point be dangerous.



Second - no one is talking about needing a daycare license to raise kids, I have no idea where you're even pulling that from?? The topic is about operating a legal daycare (licensed or non). It's about providing day care for SOMEONE ELSE'S CHILDREN. Not raising. And no one said anything about your own. Heck, no one has said anything about you at all, so it's tough to understand why you keep trying to turn this topic in the direction of your life specifically.

In general, there is a heck of a lot more leeway when discussing what you can and cannot (or should not) do with your own kids as opposed to someone else's. Especially when it comes to the law. Break the law with your own kids, that's your own beef. Break the law with someone else's children and you're talking a whole different ball of wax there.

I don't particularly care if you believe that there is a difference between the two. Bottom line though is *any* illegal activity is just that - ILLEGAL. Whether you think it's for good reason the laws exist or not is moot.


On the mention of dirty homes YOU are the one that brought that up, not me. As if to imply licensed homes are by standard, filthy and the process itself holds no merit.

Basically that all providers that go through the process are morons. I thought it was a ridiculous notion and that's the only reason I addressed it.

When speaking of judgment your post was absolutely steeped in it.


The money thing is geographical and otherwise entirely a matter of perspective. I pay *nothing* for my daycare license unless you count the $50 background check. Everything else involved: my trainings, having a first aide kit, maintaining a safe home, keeping my fire extinguishers in working order etc. - are all things I consider necessary to keeping my own children and family safe anyway. I would do them regardless of daycare licensing protocol.
06-05-2013 11:54 AM
Sugar Magnolia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
All I was trying to say is that at least, however we as providers run our business, we all love the kids and have chosen to be a daycare provider.

As long as you follow the rules for either way,there should be no one telling us how we should run our daycare as people are trying to say with all these posts.
Now I'm officially DISMAYED! "loving kids" doesn't make illegal daycare ok. Holy Good Grief! Nobody is telling anyone how to run a business! How on earth can you support illegal operation? Seriously?
06-05-2013 11:52 AM
Blackcat31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
All I was trying to say is that at least, however we as providers run our business, we all love the kids and have chosen to be a daycare provider.

As long as you follow the rules for either way,there should be no one telling us how we should run our daycare as people are trying to say with all these posts.
I understand what you are trying to say but if a provider is ILLEGALLY operating, how do we KNOW that they are or aren't following the rules and regulations?

If a provider is operating illegally, she isn't subject to unannounced inspections so there is NO way to know that she is or isn't following those guidelines other than her word.

...and I would NEVER take someone's word for something, especially if they were operating illegally because if they are willing to take that risk then their word is definitely not worth much...kwim?
06-05-2013 11:41 AM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
Sorry for the misunderstanding. I wasn't sure since you seem to feel so strongly about illegal providers being able to operate.

However, I would still not hesitate to report someone who was operating illegally.

It is illegal and I could never in good conscience support someone who purposely broke the law just because they feel entitled to do so.

Illegal is illegal no matter how you slice it.

What does wanting best for the children you care for have to do with whether or not you are legally or illegally operating??

Wanting the best for children has NOTHING to do with whether or not a provider is licensed or LEGALLY unlicensed.


All I was trying to say is that at least, however we as providers run our business, we all love the kids and have chosen to be a daycare provider.

As long as you follow the rules for either way,there should be no one telling us how we should run our daycare as people are trying to say with all these posts.
06-05-2013 11:33 AM
Crystal I wrote the following post three years ago....and I still feel exactly the same:

When I opened my program 13 years ago, I went through the licensing process. I knew a lady down the street from my home who, at the same time, chose to operate an unlicensed program, which is against regs here in Ca. unless care is only for one family. I chose to mind my own business, I knew her, she seemed like a fine person, as did her (what I thought was) husband, who did some volunteer work for the elementary school that my children were attending. I did lose out on a couple of potential clients, who decided that cheaper was the way to go, but I figure those parents were only thinking about the bottom line, so I probably didn't want them as clients anyway. She ran her business there for about three years, until one day I noticed helicopters flying overhead. This woman, who I never had an issue with, who seemed to be doing all the right things, had alot to hide, hence the reason for not being licensed. The man living in her home had been molesting her daughter (with Mom's knowledge) and had been molesting two three year olds attending her program for some time. He also had several prior felony convictions for drugs and assault charges and the provider herself had done jail time for other offenses. The man is now serving 25 years to life and she did time as well for not preventing it from happening.

I have kicked myself for years over not reporting her unlicensed program to licensing. I COULD have prevented children from being molested, but I chose to "look the other way" because her unlicensed program was "none of my business". In some regard, I have always felt responsible for what occurred in that home.

That being said, of course there are many, many unlicensed programs that go above and beyond. But without that background check, how do we TRULY know that the people operating these programs are who they say they are? Is it a gut instinct that parents should have about the person they are interviewing?

I will NEVER look the other way again. If I EVER come across an unlicensed program, it will immediately be reported, regardless of how clean their home is, how nice they seem to be, or whether or not I "see" any violations other than not having a license. As they say "never judge a book by it's cover" and I think that applies here.
06-05-2013 11:26 AM
Blackcat31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Sorry, I only AM caring for one family, with 2 kids, so I am going by the book!
I still think this whole subject is ridiculous that you are all complaining about illegal or legal care. At least we all want to care for children and want the best for them.
Sorry for the misunderstanding. I wasn't sure since you seem to feel so strongly about illegal providers being able to operate.

However, I would still not hesitate to report someone who was operating illegally.

It is illegal and I could never in good conscience support someone who purposely broke the law just because they feel entitled to do so.

Illegal is illegal no matter how you slice it.

What does wanting best for the children you care for have to do with whether or not you are legally or illegally operating??

Wanting the best for children has NOTHING to do with whether or not a provider is licensed or LEGALLY unlicensed.
06-05-2013 11:25 AM
Cradle2crayons
Quote:
Originally Posted by momofboys View Post
I can't answer for the other poster but I know in my state where I am not required to be licensed or registered (Ohio) they would likely require me to do many updates/fence in our very large backyard (over an acre) if I were to become licensed. We really don't have thousands of dollars sitting around to do so. I never want to watch 6 kids at a time (3-4 is more the ratio I enjoy) so to me being licensed would cause more heartache & expense when I am happy to only provide care for 1-2 families at a time not 5 or 6. So for me being licensed seems unnecessary because I have no intention of wanting to have multiple families all at the expense of having the state come & tell me what to do. I do have CPR certification, a college degree & report my income which is very similar to what other local providers charge.
This for me too.
06-05-2013 11:25 AM
Willow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Sorry, I only AM caring for one family, with 2 kids, so I am going by the book!
I still think this whole subject is ridiculous that you are all complaining about illegal or legal care. At least we all want to care for children and want the best for them.

Illegal care has nothing to do with what is best for children.

Which is why it's illegal
06-05-2013 11:19 AM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
I am thinking the unregistered poster IS or may be operating illegally.

In MN you can care for children legally unlicensed IF the children are ALL from one family. No limit on the number of kids but they must ALL be from one family.

Sorry, I only AM caring for one family, with 2 kids, so I am going by the book!
I still think this whole subject is ridiculous that you are all complaining about illegal or legal care. At least we all want to care for children and want the best for them.
06-05-2013 11:12 AM
MissSarah
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Hearts View Post
I just posted this on the town's babysitting facebook site. I'm so frustrated with these people too. I hestitated pressing the "enter" key as this is a small town and alot of people know me. But, enough is enough already. Welcome to my backbone and I may soon claim a "sh*t disturbing" stick too! I also wanted to add that I would report them myself if I know they are doing this (I have already reported 2 of them) but thought that would be a bit much.

To all of the daycare providers who are unlicensed and caring for more than two children who are not related to you:

If you are not aware, you are only legally allowed to care for only two children who are not related. If you care for more than that, then you are running an illegal daycare and you may be fined. The fine is very steep, $10,000 PER DAY that you are out of quota.

I have recently become licensed and have just become aware of this law myself. I just want to give you a heads up so you don't run into trouble with this. See page 57 for more information:
http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/ccf/publ...-licensing.pdf
I think this is a great idea. There may be providers that don't realize they are operating illegally.

I am LEGALLY unlicensed and am very careful to not go over the limit of how many kids I can care for. I did unknowingly come very close to operating illegally though. My province's rules changed in 2011 but I didn't know about it until just a few months ago ....luckily I never did go over the limit...but it was just that...LUCK.

Now I know I need to check the regulations every single year to make sure I'm following the rules. You posting that may help someone who might not realize that they are operating illegally. And if someone has a problem with it, maybe they have something to hide.
06-05-2013 10:52 AM
Sugar Magnolia unregistered....
Um, we are discussing ILLEGALLY OPERATING A CHILD CARE! NO ONE is saying unlicensed is bad. Illegal is bad. It's really not that confusing. Should I get out the dictionary?
Oy Vey!

I agree with blackcat...btw.
06-05-2013 10:52 AM
Blackcat31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia View Post
Gals.......the OP used the word "ILLEGAL" right in the title of her post! And she used the word "illegal" throughout the post.

Unlicensed and illegal are two different word.

If you are LEGALLY unlicensed... then the OP was NOT referring to you.
I am thinking the unregistered poster IS or may be operating illegally.

In MN you can care for children legally unlicensed IF the children are ALL from one family. No limit on the number of kids but they must ALL be from one family.
06-05-2013 10:50 AM
Lyss
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia View Post
Gals.......the OP used the word "ILLEGAL" right in the title of her post! And she used the word "illegal" throughout the post.

Unlicensed and illegal are two different word.

If you are LEGALLY unlicensed... then the OP was NOT referring to you.
06-05-2013 10:45 AM
Sugar Magnolia Gals.......the OP used the word "ILLEGAL" right in the title of her post! And she used the word "illegal" throughout the post.

Unlicensed and illegal are two different word.

If you are LEGALLY unlicensed... then the OP was NOT referring to you.
06-05-2013 10:44 AM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I am the poster of the original post above this quote, first let me say that I am a former nurse and have had all the training you need to take care of a child,second I have had two children of my own,now have families of their own. I did not need any extra training courses to raise my own kids, I raised them just fine. Do you think that women need to be licensed to raise their own kids? I know that's a loaded question, but seriously, if a women can raise her own children, then why does she need to be licensed to care for others...I know this sounds ridiculous, but it just makes a point.

As far as the licensed daycare home being dirty, no that is not the case with every licensed daycare home, but in turn does that mean that all unlicensed daycare homes are unsafe or dirty ? No, it doesn't.

Some of us unlicensed providers just choose to only care for a few kids and not make it a career, but want to do it because we love the little ones. That does not make us bad people or not responsible. It does cost a lot to be licensed and for just taking a couple kids,from the same family, it is hard for people to afford to do updates on their homes to be licensed for one thing. If you plan on making it a career and have the money to do that , then go for it.

I just don't think it is fair to judge providers for whatever choice they make,whether they are licensed or not and how they advertise. It really is nobody's business on how we conduct our own daycare business, it is up to each provider to as how they do things and their choices. It is hard enough to find kids theses days anyway as many people are losing their jobs, money is tight and they are having to pull their kids out of daycare or look for cheaper ways of finding care.

So lets not nit pic about whether one provider is licensed or not and how they advertise. Initially it is up to parents to choose the right provider for their child and there preferences.
Sorry, not the one above this one,but the one that this care giver was referring too.
06-05-2013 10:42 AM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willow View Post
I think you have a lot of misconceptions about licensed childcare in the state of MN and that's really too bad.

One licensed home that was "very dirty, had too many kids and the house smelled" doesn't mean by a long shot that's how they all are.

Furthermore, being licensed has nothing to do with offering YOU anything. It's about what it may be able to offer families looking for care in regards to some additional safeguards. Bottom line is, every single provider licensed in the state of MN has to have taken SIDS trainings, CPR and first aid courses, passed background checks (along with anyone else living in the home or even those who may just swing in for a visit now and again) and their homes inspected to make sure there aren't any structural issues that could make caring for children in the space dangerous.

Does that protect against everything that could go wrong when you leave your child in the care of a stranger? No. But it does mean the provider cared enough to jump through the hoops and there is a higher likelihood they have good intentions. It increases the odds that the person your child will be cared by will not hurt them or put them in a position to be hurt by someone or something else.

Nothing is 100% but it does reassure (at least on some level) every parent I've ever interviewed who all say they'd never leave their child with someone who hasn't found it worth it to offer them those additional securities.


As far as the food program goes I'm not sure what you're referring to? There is a multitude of food programs (plural) available and each licensed provider has the right to choose which ever one they want. There is nothing that says you have to feed the same foods over and over again, just nutritional guidelines to make sure children are being fed a balanced diet.



I am the poster of the original post above this quote, first let me say that I am a former nurse and have had all the training you need to take care of a child,second I have had two children of my own,now have families of their own. I did not need any extra training courses to raise my own kids, I raised them just fine. Do you think that women need to be licensed to raise their own kids? I know that's a loaded question, but seriously, if a women can raise her own children, then why does she need to be licensed to care for others...I know this sounds ridiculous, but it just makes a point.

As far as the licensed daycare home being dirty, no that is not the case with every licensed daycare home, but in turn does that mean that all unlicensed daycare homes are unsafe or dirty ? No, it doesn't.

Some of us unlicensed providers just choose to only care for a few kids and not make it a career, but want to do it because we love the little ones. That does not make us bad people or not responsible. It does cost a lot to be licensed and for just taking a couple kids,from the same family, it is hard for people to afford to do updates on their homes to be licensed for one thing. If you plan on making it a career and have the money to do that , then go for it.

I just don't think it is fair to judge providers for whatever choice they make,whether they are licensed or not and how they advertise. It really is nobody's business on how we conduct our own daycare business, it is up to each provider to as how they do things and their choices. It is hard enough to find kids theses days anyway as many people are losing their jobs, money is tight and they are having to pull their kids out of daycare or look for cheaper ways of finding care.

So lets not nit pic about whether one provider is licensed or not and how they advertise. Initially it is up to parents to choose the right provider for their child and there preferences.
06-05-2013 10:23 AM
Nebula I'm not licensed either, I am "listed" there are 3 tiers of child care licensing in Texas...

Tier 1- Licensed Centers, Licensed to care for 13 or more children

Tier 2- Licensed Home Daycare- 12 or less kids

Tier 3- Registered Family Home

and Tier 4- Listed Family Home.

At this moment, because of space issues I am only a "Listed Family Home". I sent the state money, underwent FBI background check, etc. Now once we get a bigger place, I want to become a licensed home.

I babysit privately as well..... in my home or away from my home.
06-05-2013 09:01 AM
momofboys
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmyKidsCo View Post
I'm curious... if you've got CPR, first aid, SIDS, etc, why not become licensed? Is it expensive or a PITB in your state?
I can't answer for the other poster but I know in my state where I am not required to be licensed or registered (Ohio) they would likely require me to do many updates/fence in our very large backyard (over an acre) if I were to become licensed. We really don't have thousands of dollars sitting around to do so. I never want to watch 6 kids at a time (3-4 is more the ratio I enjoy) so to me being licensed would cause more heartache & expense when I am happy to only provide care for 1-2 families at a time not 5 or 6. So for me being licensed seems unnecessary because I have no intention of wanting to have multiple families all at the expense of having the state come & tell me what to do. I do have CPR certification, a college degree & report my income which is very similar to what other local providers charge.
06-05-2013 08:23 AM
craftymissbeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Hearts View Post
Well I stirred the pot. Someone's very mad at me and wrote that everyone should watch their back because I will report them. Made me smile
Well they SHOULD watch their backs
06-05-2013 08:09 AM
Happy Hearts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Hearts View Post
I just posted this on the town's babysitting facebook site. I'm so frustrated with these people too. I hestitated pressing the "enter" key as this is a small town and alot of people know me. But, enough is enough already. Welcome to my backbone and I may soon claim a "sh*t disturbing" stick too! I also wanted to add that I would report them myself if I know they are doing this (I have already reported 2 of them) but thought that would be a bit much.

To all of the daycare providers who are unlicensed and caring for more than two children who are not related to you:

If you are not aware, you are only legally allowed to care for only two children who are not related. If you care for more than that, then you are running an illegal daycare and you may be fined. The fine is very steep, $10,000 PER DAY that you are out of quota.

I have recently become licensed and have just become aware of this law myself. I just want to give you a heads up so you don't run into trouble with this. See page 57 for more information:
http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/ccf/publ...-licensing.pdf
Well I stirred the pot. Someone's very mad at me and wrote that everyone should watch their back because I will report them. Made me smile
06-04-2013 10:42 PM
Cradle2crayons
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmyKidsCo View Post
I'm curious... if you've got CPR, first aid, SIDS, etc, why not become licensed? Is it expensive or a PITB in your state?
Not sure about pp, but its a pita here and that's my reason. And besides there really isn't any advantage.
06-04-2013 09:28 PM
AmyKidsCo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I am an unlicensed provider and I have completed CPR, first aid training and have read tons and tona of information on sids, child abuse and other day care related things. I charge less because I can. I only need a small amount of money to be able to stay at home and work from home. I live in an expensive upscale neighborhood and there are providers charging almost double what I charge and I was one if the parents who couldn't afford t pay 250 or 300 a week per chold so when I started doing daycare I wanted to help parents out. I have a beautiful home with awesome space for daycare and I spend several hours a week researching and preparing so that I can offer superior care and what some of you are saying is I should be shut down. I hear sports all the time about licensed daycare a and the terrible things that happen and my soon was in a licensed daycare center that I was paying 250 a week for and he hated it. Staff was rude, under qualified and made it obvious they were only there for the check . This us my dream and having it taken away because I am not licensed sounds silly.
I'm curious... if you've got CPR, first aid, SIDS, etc, why not become licensed? Is it expensive or a PITB in your state?
06-04-2013 09:05 PM
craftymissbeth This reminds me about what someone posted on our county's Facebook swap page... someone advertised that they are a SAHM and wanting to watch kids in her home full time. A discussion began (I wasn't involved, but read through it before it was deleted) and basically everyone was saying that if she wanted to operate illegally she can choose to do so but not to openly advertise. Someone mentioned that there are "far more illegal things than this".


I thought illegal was illegal was illegal. Guess I was wrong
06-04-2013 08:23 PM
Happy Hearts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I am an unlicensed provider and I have completed CPR, first aid training and have read tons and tona of information on sids, child abuse and other day care related things. I charge less because I can. I only need a small amount of money to be able to stay at home and work from home. I live in an expensive upscale neighborhood and there are providers charging almost double what I charge and I was one if the parents who couldn't afford t pay 250 or 300 a week per chold so when I started doing daycare I wanted to help parents out. I have a beautiful home with awesome space for daycare and I spend several hours a week researching and preparing so that I can offer superior care and what some of you are saying is I should be shut down. I hear sports all the time about licensed daycare a and the terrible things that happen and my soon was in a licensed daycare center that I was paying 250 a week for and he hated it. Staff was rude, under qualified and made it obvious they were only there for the check . This us my dream and having it taken away because I am not licensed sounds silly.
If you are unlicensed and legal then I have no problem with you having your daycare.... fly at her. BUT, if you are illegal, then I don't care how many credentials you have, how much education you have, how beautiful your home is, or how much you love children: You are breaking the law!!! What does that say about you? What makes you so special that you can disregard what your state/province deems lawful for daycares?

And, what does that say about your morals?!?!? I know there are so many reasons why some don't become licensed and they are just ridiculous. It doesn't matter if you don't agree, compliance is the law.
06-04-2013 08:06 PM
LaLa1923
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I am an unlicensed provider and I have completed CPR, first aid training and have read tons and tona of information on sids, child abuse and other day care related things. I charge less because I can. I only need a small amount of money to be able to stay at home and work from home. I live in an expensive upscale neighborhood and there are providers charging almost double what I charge and I was one if the parents who couldn't afford t pay 250 or 300 a week per chold so when I started doing daycare I wanted to help parents out. I have a beautiful home with awesome space for daycare and I spend several hours a week researching and preparing so that I can offer superior care and what some of you are saying is I should be shut down. I hear sports all the time about licensed daycare a and the terrible things that happen and my soon was in a licensed daycare center that I was paying 250 a week for and he hated it. Staff was rude, under qualified and made it obvious they were only there for the check . This us my dream and having it taken away because I am not licensed sounds silly.

Is your child care ILLEGAL???
06-04-2013 07:49 PM
craftymissbeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I am an unlicensed provider and I have completed CPR, first aid training and have read tons and tona of information on sids, child abuse and other day care related things. I charge less because I can. I only need a small amount of money to be able to stay at home and work from home. I live in an expensive upscale neighborhood and there are providers charging almost double what I charge and I was one if the parents who couldn't afford t pay 250 or 300 a week per chold so when I started doing daycare I wanted to help parents out. I have a beautiful home with awesome space for daycare and I spend several hours a week researching and preparing so that I can offer superior care and what some of you are saying is I should be shut down. I hear sports all the time about licensed daycare a and the terrible things that happen and my soon was in a licensed daycare center that I was paying 250 a week for and he hated it. Staff was rude, under qualified and made it obvious they were only there for the check . This us my dream and having it taken away because I am not licensed sounds silly.

You should consider rereading this entire thread. Not a single person here has said that unlicensed daycares should be shut down. sheesh!

The issue is that in some states, it is illegal to operate an unlicensed daycare and THAT is what I am upset about.
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