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02-21-2012 11:21 AM
MarinaVanessa
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meyou View Post
I'm not disputing the statistics on single parent homes vs two parent homes. I'm disputing the validity of lumping non-married two parent homes with single parent homes.
And I thank you for it because I'm one of those "single" mothers. My DH and I have been together for 7 years but aren't married yet (it's just easier to write DH than fiance and BF just doesn't seem to give it depth of meaning). We will be married in August and we have a son together and I have a DD from another relationship but we are a family and we might as well be married KWIM? We pay a mortgage, share the bills, bath, care for and teach our children (my DH has spent more time and money on my DD than her biological father) etc. But I suppose that I'm one of those "single" mothers that the statistics talk about and it doesn't seem like I should be. I'm not really "single" KWIM? We're just taking a little longer to get married than other people and we made a conscience choice to have a child before getting married (for tax reasons ).
02-21-2012 10:39 AM
cheerfuldom There are MANY couples who are committed to each other but do not marry in order to apply for government aid when the baby comes around. You can apply for more school funds when you are a single parent too (or at least appear to be a single parent). You can get formula, supplies, childcare for free. There isn't much incentive to get married anymore especially when the social stigma of being unmarried is far less than in previous generations.

I have figured out the numbers for me personally. I would be better off financially if I divorced my husband and got government funds for housing, food, baby supplies, medical costs, schooling for me, childcare costs. I would never do this of course but stability and love are something you can't put a price on. However, it is sad to know that married couples that are not receiving any government funds and are middle class are actually the minority now.
02-21-2012 08:03 AM
Country Kids I know a few couples like this also. They can get childcare help, money help, the whole bit as long as they aren't married!

The whole thing to me is wrong because its teaching nothing about being married, taking responsiblity for your actions and just being able to stand on your own two feet!

It just makes me mad to think that all the working people are working for at least one other family because they other family may not want to become legally married because they won't qualify for help!
02-21-2012 08:03 AM
MrsB Obviously I lived in the wrong area 13 years ago when my daughter was born. I was 19 and had just had a baby and her dad left me high and dry. We were planning on getting married after baby was born, but he met someone else in my 8th month and took off) I had a job while I was pregnant and had saved every last penny I could, but they laid me off about a month before I was due. I found a neighbor of my parents that allowed me to stay there rent free while I figured out what I was going to do. I went down to see if I could get some state assistance while I got back on my feet. While I did qualify for food stamps and health insurance they said that my car was worth too much money to get any state assitance. (I paid $2000 after I graduated from highschool, my parents paid half of that for my graduation present) and that I would have to sell it for something worth less than $1500. They also included the person I was living withs income in most everything. I qualified to be put on the low income housing list but at that time it was 3 years long. Also the money that I was getting in food stamps, which I thought was quite alot at the time, they took half of that money from my exs paycheck, so he stopped sending me child support. So at that point, I could afford prime rib steaks and seafood, but not toilet paper or gas to get to and from interviews and doctors appointments. Luckily for me I had the will to survive, and had alot of family to help me out with babysitting. I did find a great job and was able to rise above. I did have to start work when my daughter was 2 weeks old and had to work 50+ hours a week. They did offer me a bus pass so I used that but with so many transfers to get my daughter to daycare and then to work. I was getting up at 4am to ride the bus for 2hrs and then not getting home until after 11pm most nights. Some of the biggest regrets I have that I wasn't able to bond with her, but it was a matter of survival.

Made me so angry because, every time I tried to qualify for some kind of help, there was something that disqualified me because I was making steps to make the assitance temporary. Obviously I was doing something wrong!!

How is it all these parents are able to work the system so easily? I had a potential DCM (single on assitance) show up for an interview driving an almost new ford Expedition. I mean really you can't afford daycare but you can afford a $600 a month car payment? When I asked, she said her cousin put in his name but she makes the payment and she gets gas cards from the state. She also asked me since she gets way more food stamp money than she uses, if she could by food for the daycare, in exchange for cash so she could use it for living expenses. You know like the new jordans her son was wearing and the dulce and gabana sunglasses she had.
02-21-2012 07:57 AM
DBug
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaddidle Care View Post
Absolutely disgusting statistics. It should be called the "Poor Me" syndrome - or maybe the GIMME Syndrome.

Mac60 you are spot on! I know someone that now has 3 children. She has been with baby (2&3) Dad from the beginning but won't marry because the system won't pay her if she's married. So in essence, the government has encouraged her and others to live in sin.

And don't even get me started on the mortgage debt relief.
True here in Canada too. How many dads are encouraged to be deadbeats because if they say they support their children, their girlfriends won't get the government handouts anymore (which of course, the dads reap the benefits of as well)
02-21-2012 07:45 AM
Meyou
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solandia View Post
I think it is appropriate to lump them altogether (in a financial way)...many of the services to single moms/single parents are there regardless. If fact, of all the clients i have had using subsidy...every.single.one was in a committed relationship. living together, but didn't get married b/c then they wouldn't get services. They even referred to each other as husband/wife.

My dh worked in far south side chicago...same thing...the majority of his coworkers had a sah "wife"(but not really married), and they worked the same job as dh. But since they were not married, collected heat assistance, free health care for their kids, cash benefits for a couple of years, Sec 8 assistance for housing, free tax prep... We were starting to feel stupid for getting married. I know his coworkers mentioned it a couple of times in jest...

These are examples of people ripping off the government not the result of a lack of marriage vows. I receive NO financial benefit from being in a taxpaying common law relationship compared to when I was married. Of course you have to assume people are honest. I guess the ones you know aren't.

As far as the emotional effects of single parenthood...yes, it is way different when children are in a 2 parent household vs 1 parent household. I haven't seen that too often, mostly in divorce situations. The teen parents I know (2 that I have had in my program, 2 of my cousins' kids)...all have been living with the children's father, and years later still in the same living situation...a 2 parent household, just not married.

I'm not disputing the statistics on single parent homes vs two parent homes. I'm disputing the validity of lumping non-married two parent homes with single parent homes.
Answered in bold above
02-21-2012 07:22 AM
JenNJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meyou View Post
I'm not too fond of the way they lump single parents and unmarried parents together. Considering not all couple have the right to marry it's not exactly an accurate or politically correct category IMO.

There are thousands or perhaps millions of people that chose not to get married for religious or financial or political reasons but according to this study they're all single parents and included in their statistics. Meh, that just doesn't sit well with me.

While I agree that the the state of the family unit has declined and that affects children greatly I cannot agree that women or children were better off 50 years ago when 1/3 of all marriages were forced because of an unplanned pregnancy. It seems to me that the "happy family" of 50 years ago was perhaps not so happy as we think but just better at faking it.
Could not agree more! Especially the bolded. My grandparents were "happily" married to anyone looking at them. However he was a philanderer and an absentee husband and father. My grandmother raised SIX kids on her own in a miserable marriage because it wasn't an option to leave back then. She had less rights than he did and there was no alimony or child support.

So when my aunt's husband started up with that noise, my grandmother was her number one supporter. She said to my aunt, "It's better to be alone and happy than to live with what could be."
02-21-2012 07:22 AM
SilverSabre25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catherder View Post
Actually, the article says that. It gives several reasons for the new statistics.

Entitlements were just one.
Gotcha, see that's what I get for posting before reading all the way :P
02-21-2012 07:16 AM
Cat Herder
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSabre25 View Post
I'd be willing to bet that "unwed pregnancy" is not what's on the rise; it's women/couples choosing not to marry, women NOT aborting an unplanned child, etc. Not every woman who has a child out of wedlock is milking "the system" for all it's worth.
Actually, the article says that. It gives several reasons for the new statistics.

Entitlements were just one.

IMHO, It is simply interesting historically. This is the FIRST time we have reached a majority of women under 30 giving birth unwed (for whatever reason). I don't know of another country with those stats.

I am curious what is to come. Is this a permanent change in our society? Will there be a whiplash effect with the next generation? Has our culture taken an entirely new direction?

It was not really a judgment. Just surprising and interesting to me.
02-21-2012 07:14 AM
SilverSabre25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meyou View Post
I'm not too fond of the way they lump single parents and unmarried parents together. Considering not all couple have the right to marry it's not exactly an accurate or politically correct category IMO.

There are thousands or perhaps millions of people that chose not to get married for religious or financial or political reasons but according to this study they're all single parents and included in their statistics. Meh, that just doesn't sit well with me.

While I agree that the the state of the family unit has declined and that affects children greatly I cannot agree that women or children were better off 50 years ago when 1/3 of all marriages were forced because of an unplanned pregnancy. It seems to me that the "happy family" of 50 years ago was perhaps not so happy as we think but just better at faking it.
Yes, this exactly! To lump all women together who get pregnant or have children without being able to tick that little box that says "married" instead of the one that says "single" makes for an inaccurate statistic.

I'd be willing to bet that "unwed pregnancy" is not what's on the rise; it's women/couples choosing not to marry, women NOT aborting an unplanned child, etc. Not every woman who has a child out of wedlock is milking "the system" for all it's worth.
02-21-2012 07:00 AM
Solandia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meyou View Post
I'm not too fond of the way they lump single parents and unmarried parents together. Considering not all couple have the right to marry it's not exactly an accurate or politically correct category IMO.

There are thousands or perhaps millions of people that chose not to get married for religious or financial or political reasons but according to this study they're all single parents and included in their statistics. Meh, that just doesn't sit well with me.

While I agree that the the state of the family unit has declined and that affects children greatly I cannot agree that women or children were better off 50 years ago when 1/3 of all marriages were forced because of an unplanned pregnancy. It seems to me that the "happy family" of 50 years ago was perhaps not so happy as we think but just better at faking it.
I think it is appropriate to lump them altogether (in a financial way)...many of the services to single moms/single parents are there regardless. If fact, of all the clients i have had using subsidy...every.single.one was in a committed relationship. living together, but didn't get married b/c then they wouldn't get services. They even referred to each other as husband/wife.

My dh worked in far south side chicago...same thing...the majority of his coworkers had a sah "wife"(but not really married), and they worked the same job as dh. But since they were not married, collected heat assistance, free health care for their kids, cash benefits for a couple of years, Sec 8 assistance for housing, free tax prep... We were starting to feel stupid for getting married. I know his coworkers mentioned it a couple of times in jest...

As far as the emotional effects of single parenthood...yes, it is way different when children are in a 2 parent household vs 1 parent household. I haven't seen that too often, mostly in divorce situations. The teen parents I know (2 that I have had in my program, 2 of my cousins' kids)...all have been living with the children's father, and years later still in the same living situation...a 2 parent household, just not married.
02-21-2012 06:19 AM
littlemissmuffet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meyou View Post
I'm not too fond of the way they lump single parents and unmarried parents together. Considering not all couple have the right to marry it's not exactly an accurate or politically correct category IMO.

There are thousands or perhaps millions of people that chose not to get married for religious or financial or political reasons but according to this study they're all single parents and included in their statistics. Meh, that just doesn't sit well with me.

While I agree that the the state of the family unit has declined and that affects children greatly I cannot agree that women or children were better off 50 years ago when 1/3 of all marriages were forced because of an unplanned pregnancy. It seems to me that the "happy family" of 50 years ago was perhaps not so happy as we think but just better at faking it.

Excellent points! Agreed!
02-21-2012 05:41 AM
Kaddidle Care
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catherder View Post
It used to be called illegitimacy. Now it is the new normal. After steadily rising for five decades, the share of children born to unmarried women has crossed a threshold: more than half of births to American women under 30 occur outside marriage.

73 percent of black children are born outside marriage, compared with 53 percent of Latinos and 29 percent of whites.
Stats: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr48/nvs48_16.pdf
Absolutely disgusting statistics. It should be called the "Poor Me" syndrome - or maybe the GIMME Syndrome.

Mac60 you are spot on! I know someone that now has 3 children. She has been with baby (2&3) Dad from the beginning but won't marry because the system won't pay her if she's married. So in essence, the government has encouraged her and others to live in sin.

And don't even get me started on the mortgage debt relief.
02-21-2012 05:13 AM
Meyou I'm not too fond of the way they lump single parents and unmarried parents together. Considering not all couple have the right to marry it's not exactly an accurate or politically correct category IMO.

There are thousands or perhaps millions of people that chose not to get married for religious or financial or political reasons but according to this study they're all single parents and included in their statistics. Meh, that just doesn't sit well with me.

While I agree that the the state of the family unit has declined and that affects children greatly I cannot agree that women or children were better off 50 years ago when 1/3 of all marriages were forced because of an unplanned pregnancy. It seems to me that the "happy family" of 50 years ago was perhaps not so happy as we think but just better at faking it.
02-21-2012 04:31 AM
mac60 Very good article. Thanks for sharing. But oh so sad. Here we call it the "Entitlement Syndrome" or the "Single Mom Syndrome". I make bad choices and expect society to provide for me. I make another bad choice so you can now give me more.

The government agencies have allowed this to happen. They need to put a "stop" to the constant bailing out of making poor decisions. If you have a child and you are "collecting", if you have another one, you should be booted off the system. The system is going to have to get really tough to stop this terrible pattern. Also, when couples live together instead of choosing to get married, the benefits should stop. Just because there is "not a piece of paper" should not change the outcome. If you are going to play you need to play, piece of paper or not.

It is really destructive to society how so many have lowered their standards and choose this way of life. How they have given no thought to how their irresponsibility will affect the offspring they have. It is one thing to make one mistake, but when it goes in to two, three, and four, simply wrong.

The whole "single mom" and sometimes "single dad" syndrome really needs to be addressed in this country. The way the system works, it doesn't give the single parent any reason to try. When you get free college, free food, free medical, discounted housing, sometimes a free car and gas vouchers, free free free. No incentive to support themselves.

I have a mom who works in a medical center for a baby doctor. She says girls get $100 gift cards to WalMart for just "showing up at their appointments", along with gas vouchers. Really, society has to pay and bribe them for coming to a doctor appointment?

Then you have the working family, like us, whose spouse lost their job, left the family with no health insurance, and we can get NOTHING. No healthcare coverage....because we have done everything right, so we don't count....even though we have paid into the systems for over 70 years combined. Isn't fair at all.

When college is paid for when being on the system, they should have to pay that money back after they graduate, just like like college student who took out student loans. If they start putting limits on "free" and stipulations on make poor choices, maybe the syndrome with take a turn for the better, but when you give "Free" constantly, there will always be a group that will take and take making one poor choice after another. Off my rant...great article.
02-20-2012 07:25 PM
Cat Herder I stumbled across this and was surprised. It made me think of the Parenting Trends thread...but I figured I should start another one since this is but one aspect of the bigger picture. Worth a read, though.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/18/us...pagewanted=all

LORAIN, Ohio It used to be called illegitimacy. Now it is the new normal. After steadily rising for five decades, the share of children born to unmarried women has crossed a threshold: more than half of births to American women under 30 occur outside marriage.

73 percent of black children are born outside marriage, compared with 53 percent of Latinos and 29 percent of whites. And educational differences are growing. About 92 percent of college-educated women are married when they give birth, compared with 62 percent of women with some post-secondary schooling and 43 percent of women with a high school diploma or less, according to Child Trends.


Stats: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr48/nvs48_16.pdf

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