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09-21-2010 07:22 PM
MarinaVanessa
Quote:
Originally Posted by misol View Post
Well, the spit hit the fan. One of my worst fears was that a daycare parent would be able to identify me on here and now that fear it has come true. Turns out that someone also alerted this mom to my post and she came here and read it. I kind of figured that this might happen but was still hoping that it wouldn't.

Anyway, through a long series of email exchanges over the weekend and a long, heartfelt discussion yesterday at drop-off, we have reached an understanding. We have respectfully agreed to disagree on the discpline issue. She is happy with the care that I provide to her children in most every other aspect. As difficult as it may have been, I should have just been upfront with her. I should have scheduled a conference to discuss the behavior issues that I was having with her son, given them an opportunity to work on the problem, and then made a decision from there. They are still leaving but she has made it clear that the reason is because of her work situation and not the spanking issue. The timing between the two was purely coincidental. Friday will be their last day but the door is still open to them. She is welcome to use my drop-in service and when her work situation changes I will consider taking her boys back if I haven't filled the spaces by then.

I love this board and will continue to read and post here. However, I will always be mindful that a parent (or licensor, or whoever) may be lurking and so I will phrase my posts accordingly. In order to protect my identity and reputation as a provider, I am considering re-registering under a different screen name with as little identifying information as possible. In the meantime, I will be posting as unregistered if I have questions or comments that I feel may be unpopular or controversial in nature.
Well that's too bad that the parent read your posts but in retrospect she did also post the issue and her perspective on it on a forum as well. I am glad however that you two came to an agreement (and an amicable one at that it seems) and that your issue is resolved.
09-21-2010 06:35 PM
professionalmom
Quote:
Originally Posted by misol View Post
professionalmom, my degree is in Criminal Justice too. I knew there was a reason I liked you
Ditto. And your update post reminded me to state something VERY important: Although I support a parent's right to spank or swat his or her OWN child(ren), I do not support ANYONE hitting, smacking, spanking, etc a child that is NOT his or her own, including DAYCARE PROVIDERS. Nor do I support abuse. I just feel that there is a difference between a "swat" and a "whooping". If you don't know the difference, then for the love of God and all His children, do NOT use any form of physical discipline.

Misol, I am guessing this is basically your stance too. There's nothing wrong with that. Some parents think giving their kids an occasional Happy Meal is fine. Some think it's so nutritionally wrong that they think it's abusive. So, as with everything else, parent as you see fit. My guess is your kids will turn out to be wonderful, productive members of society. And if they are anything like me (who got a handful of swats when I was young), they will grow up and thank you for raising them to be people they can be proud of (like I have thanked my mom)!
09-21-2010 01:18 PM
misol
Quote:
Originally Posted by professionalmom View Post
I TOTALLY AGREE!!! I hold a bachelors degree in Criminal Justice. Try to find a police officer, correctional officer, or probation / parole officer who does NOT repeat this same sentiment. Most of the people I went to school with said this exact thing, "Either discipline your kids when they're young or I'll do it for you when they become teens or adults."

Plus, let's compare: a swat on a diapered tush vs. 5-10 years in a 5 by 9 cell with someone serving a life sentence who hasn't had sex in 10 years? Darn, straight I'll swat my daughters' tushies when they deserve it. And "deserve it" usually means they are endangering themselves (pulling out the outlet covers) or doing something that could do serious harm (DD kicking my belly during a diaper change, with me pregnant with twins and desperately trying to NOT have contractions or any more dilation).

That's not to say that people who don't spank have kids that will end up doing time. That's for the parents who don't do anything. As for the parents who don't spank, but have other methods - great! But keep in mind, the techniques you use, may not work on every kid. For instance, I got a couple swats growing up, but it was that look of disappointment and loss of trust, coupled with a firm tone and lecture that would have me in tears faster than anything. I have cousins who could ignore all that, but would respond to a spank much better. Children are not all alike and no cookie cutter discipline (created by someone who has never met my child(ren) will ever be appropriate for ALL children.
professionalmom, my degree is in Criminal Justice too. I knew there was a reason I liked you
09-21-2010 01:15 PM
misol
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa View Post
Just wondering what happened Misol. In your thread DCM gave notice, which I noticed that she didn't mention in her own thread when I read it. Is she still leaving? Were/are things akward?
Well, the spit hit the fan. One of my worst fears was that a daycare parent would be able to identify me on here and now that fear it has come true. Turns out that someone also alerted this mom to my post and she came here and read it. I kind of figured that this might happen but was still hoping that it wouldn't.

Anyway, through a long series of email exchanges over the weekend and a long, heartfelt discussion yesterday at drop-off, we have reached an understanding. We have respectfully agreed to disagree on the discpline issue. She is happy with the care that I provide to her children in most every other aspect. As difficult as it may have been, I should have just been upfront with her. I should have scheduled a conference to discuss the behavior issues that I was having with her son, given them an opportunity to work on the problem, and then made a decision from there. They are still leaving but she has made it clear that the reason is because of her work situation and not the spanking issue. The timing between the two was purely coincidental. Friday will be their last day but the door is still open to them. She is welcome to use my drop-in service and when her work situation changes I will consider taking her boys back if I haven't filled the spaces by then.

I love this board and will continue to read and post here. However, I will always be mindful that a parent (or licensor, or whoever) may be lurking and so I will phrase my posts accordingly. In order to protect my identity and reputation as a provider, I am considering re-registering under a different screen name with as little identifying information as possible. In the meantime, I will be posting as unregistered if I have questions or comments that I feel may be unpopular or controversial in nature.
09-21-2010 09:51 AM
MarinaVanessa Just wondering what happened Misol. In your thread DCM gave notice, which I noticed that she didn't mention in her own thread when I read it. Is she still leaving? Were/are things akward?
09-20-2010 10:04 PM
professionalmom
Quote:
Originally Posted by misol View Post
The bottom line is that you can either discipline them yourself now, or have the penal system discipline them later.
I TOTALLY AGREE!!! I hold a bachelors degree in Criminal Justice. Try to find a police officer, correctional officer, or probation / parole officer who does NOT repeat this same sentiment. Most of the people I went to school with said this exact thing, "Either discipline your kids when they're young or I'll do it for you when they become teens or adults."

Plus, let's compare: a swat on a diapered tush vs. 5-10 years in a 5 by 9 cell with someone serving a life sentence who hasn't had sex in 10 years? Darn, straight I'll swat my daughters' tushies when they deserve it. And "deserve it" usually means they are endangering themselves (pulling out the outlet covers) or doing something that could do serious harm (DD kicking my belly during a diaper change, with me pregnant with twins and desperately trying to NOT have contractions or any more dilation).

That's not to say that people who don't spank have kids that will end up doing time. That's for the parents who don't do anything. As for the parents who don't spank, but have other methods - great! But keep in mind, the techniques you use, may not work on every kid. For instance, I got a couple swats growing up, but it was that look of disappointment and loss of trust, coupled with a firm tone and lecture that would have me in tears faster than anything. I have cousins who could ignore all that, but would respond to a spank much better. Children are not all alike and no cookie cutter discipline (created by someone who has never met my child(ren) will ever be appropriate for ALL children.
09-15-2010 08:20 PM
misol
Quote:
But clearly the child heard you spank or swat (whatever you choose to call it) your child or heard you threatening to spank/swat your child. How else would he have an undisputed occurance that you admit to report back to mom?
Yes, I said that dcb may have heard me say "spank" but I am 100% certain that he did not see or hear it because A) he was in a completely different room and B) there was nothing to see (I was behind a closed door) or hear (she did not cry).

Quote:
I know I wasn't in your home during the situation but I do have to side with the mom in that she should have known at time of enrollment that you spank your children during daycare hours and that she needed to know things of that nature could occur around her children. I also agree with a PP in that if licensing does not allow corporal punishment that you should not engage in that during daycare hours even if it is your own child.
In the interview, this mom only inquired about my discipline methods as they related to her children. Had she asked me about the discipline methods I use on my OWN children, I would have certainly discussed that with her. She never even mentioned to me that she had an issue with time-outs (I think she said that in her post). It's odd to me that a cardholding member of the anti-spanking coalition would not ask this question when interviewing a provider.

Quote:
Another item to consider--people speak of having respect for those with differing parenting styles but OP stated that dck's are uncontrollable because their parents do not discipline them (judgmental and not respectful of the parents' choices). I urge everyone that does not have grown children to consider that the effects of your parenting styles have yet to be determined....including myself.

I do respect different parenting styles - as a parenting style is comprised of way more than just discipline methods. I will say, again, that I can respect a parent's decision not to spank but I cannot respect a parent's decision to do nothing. I have dealt with plenty of parents who don't spank. Most of their kids are respectful and exhibit behaviors typical for their ages. They were not out of control, disrespectful, and obnoxious. This is because even though their parents don't spank them, they still use some form of discpline with their children. And let me go on record as saying that ignoring a behavior hoping it will go away does not constitute discipline in my book. These are the same kinds of parents who end up on a talk shows crying and begging for help because they have out of control teens. The bottom line is that you can either discipline them yourself now, or have the penal system discipline them later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystal View Post
But I'd NEVER even mention spanking in front of a dck or dcp.....it's just asking for trouble.
You are right and I've had to learn the hard way. I did not expect to ever have to spank my kids during daycare hours but it happened. And since I cannot predict how and when my kids are going to act out or predict when my normal methods of discpline are not going to be effective - it may very well happen again. One thing I am certain of though, is that no other daycare kid will ever hear me threaten a spanking again.
09-15-2010 08:15 PM
kidkair
Quote:
Originally Posted by momofsix View Post
OK i'll bite on this one
why would I choose to spank my child when I can find another option for a daycare child-why wouldn't I use that same option for my own child--this is the question, correct?
1. just because something "works" temporarily for a dck, doesn't mean it actually is going to stop any behaviors permanently. ie. distracting a child does nothing to teach him his behavior is wrong-yet it's one of the "experts" favorite tools
Distracting is not the only way too redirect. I constantly stop a child and tell them that what they are doing is wrong and direct them into a better way to solve the situation. I don't simply distract them.
2. I am responsible to God and to society (now and in the future) for the behavior of MY children, not the daycare children I have for a short time. I believe you are very much responsible for the behavior of any child in your care be them yours always or temporary. I believe that no matter how long we have with each child that comes in our care, we affect their lives a little or a ton. Don't forget that children react to everything in their environment a lot more than us adults do.
3. I am responsable for providing an environment for dcks that is a different environment from the one I need to provide for my own children in many ways, discipline being only one.That's your choice. You could chose to provide the same discipline.
4 My children are my LIFE -although I love my dcks to bits, they are not the same as my own, and I don't think anyone other than a parent should spank a child-the relationship is not the same and the love that is involved in a spankng done correctly would not be there for a child that is not your own.Spanking out of love is BS. You're reacting to their behavior with frustration and anger not love. Love would be taking them in hand and having them repeat the situation in a better way so that they learn how to do it better rather than learning to fear a spanking.
I'm sure if I took the time, i could answer this better, but this is what i've come up with off the top of my head. I hope this explains it for you
(also remember that just because this is true for me, doesn't mean it's true for everyone that believes in the value of spanking)
I hope this clarifies my feelings on this subject.
09-15-2010 08:00 PM
Jewels
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa View Post
Lol I totally agree with you there. I also spank my 5yo but not during DC hours and yes I live in CA. It's amazing to me that we have come to a point in this country where you can get arrested for terrorism for spanking a misbehaving child on a plane . I choose not to spank my child during daycare hours because you never know when you'll get a parent that goes bonkers on you for whatever reason and calls licensing on you or CPS for spanking, even your own child. It's just the hassle of the investigation that I begrudge. I believe that if a parent wants to spank their child then thats up to them and it's my choice to spank my own child just like I believe that if a woman wants to get an abortion it's up to that woman even if I would never do it and don't agree with abortion. This is America people.
YEs I agree with this, Not during daycare hours is best, But like I said one time I swatted my son during daycarte hours, but he was in his room going down for nap, and was kicking me, and he got a swat, but I knew no other kids would know about it, cause he would be in his room for 2 hours, but I know all of my daycare parents have swatted their own kids butts, and in conversations, They know I have swatted my sons butt before also. But I dont ever want a kid going home saying anything about me spanking, that would make me scared of a complaint or something,. your situations sucks, and I feel for you.
09-15-2010 07:14 PM
misol
Quote:
Originally Posted by momofsix View Post
OK i'll bite on this one
why would I choose to spank my child when I can find another option for a daycare child-why wouldn't I use that same option for my own child--this is the question, correct?
1. just because something "works" temporarily for a dck, doesn't mean it actually is going to stop any behaviors permanently. ie. distracting a child does nothing to teach him his behavior is wrong-yet it's one of the "experts" favorite tools
2. I am responsible to God and to society (now and in the future) for the behavior of MY children, not the daycare children I have for a short time.
3. I am responsable for providing an environment for dcks that is a different environment from the one I need to provide for my own children in many ways, discipline being only one.
4 My children are my LIFE -although I love my dcks to bits, they are not the same as my own, and I don't think anyone other than a parent should spank a child-the relationship is not the same and the love that is involved in a spankng done correctly would not be there for a child that is not your own
I'm sure if I took the time, i could answer this better, but this is what i've come up with off the top of my head. I hope this explains it for you
(also remember that just because this is true for me, doesn't mean it's true for everyone that believes in the value of spanking)
This was a great answer momofsix.
09-15-2010 03:02 PM
Crystal A wise man once told me..."If you are raising your voice or raising your hand to a child, YOU are the one out of control, not the child"

However, I'll say, to each his own. But I'd NEVER even mention spanking in front of a dck or dcp.....it's just asking for trouble.
09-15-2010 02:35 PM
Aya477 I do respect that each parent differs in their belief on spanking children. I do not spank my child and do not think that his behavior differs greatly from any of his 23 other classmates. (4yo) I know of children that are spanked and quite frankly I see them act out more than my own child. Using logic, if we teach our kids that spanking is necessary to control a situation (actually, control a person), then are we not indirectly teaching our children that hitting gets results? I was spanked as a child. It did nothing for me other than make me angry at my parents for the moment. I did not learn from the spankings but I did stop whatever the behavior was my parents intended to stop....for the time being. Doesn't mean that I didn't do whatever it was again even an hour later. What I did learn from was when my parents stopped spanking me and started talking to me around 10ish yo and I could understand the disappointment I caused them. It wasn't until then that I truly began to consider my actions before doing them. My best friend was spanked until he was a teenager and began fighting back which caused Dad to back down. My friend is a father now and will not allow his son to have anything to do with his dad due to the fear that his dad will spank his child or discipline him in a manner he disagrees with. Just food for thought....not trying to create a debate or argument on the rights/wrongs of spanking.

But clearly the child heard you spank or swat (whatever you choose to call it) your child or heard you threatening to spank/swat your child. How else would he have an undisputed occurance that you admit to report back to mom? I know I wasn't in your home during the situation but I do have to side with the mom in that she should have known at time of enrollment that you spank your children during daycare hours and that she needed to know things of that nature could occur around her children. I also agree with a PP in that if licensing does not allow corporal punishment that you should not engage in that during daycare hours even if it is your own child.

Another item to consider--people speak of having respect for those with differing parenting styles but OP stated that dck's are uncontrollable because their parents do not discipline them (judgmental and not respectful of the parents' choices). I urge everyone that does not have grown children to consider that the effects of your parenting styles have yet to be determined....including myself.
09-15-2010 01:11 PM
marniewon
Quote:
Originally Posted by momofsix View Post
OK i'll bite on this one
why would I choose to spank my child when I can find another option for a daycare child-why wouldn't I use that same option for my own child--this is the question, correct?
1. just because something "works" temporarily for a dck, doesn't mean it actually is going to stop any behaviors permanently. ie. distracting a child does nothing to teach him his behavior is wrong-yet it's one of the "experts" favorite tools
2. I am responsible to God and to society (now and in the future) for the behavior of MY children, not the daycare children I have for a short time.
3. I am responsable for providing an environment for dcks that is a different environment from the one I need to provide for my own children in many ways, discipline being only one.
4 My children are my LIFE -although I love my dcks to bits, they are not the same as my own, and I don't think anyone other than a parent should spank a child-the relationship is not the same and the love that is involved in a spankng done correctly would not be there for a child that is not your own
I'm sure if I took the time, i could answer this better, but this is what i've come up with off the top of my head. I hope this explains it for you
(also remember that just because this is true for me, doesn't mean it's true for everyone that believes in the value of spanking)
I couldn't have said it better! This is exactly how I feel.
09-15-2010 01:08 PM
momofsix
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidkair View Post
You miss understood me. I didn't mean that another child would spank another child. I meant that say your kid is told no and starts throwing a huge fit and becomes completely uncontrollable and you can't get her to stop for anything. You take her to another room and swat her and she reacts by calming down and you now have her attention because of the swat. Now say another kid starts throwing the same kind of uncontrollable fit for the exact same reason and you are not allowed to swat this child. What do you do? and why can't that be the same thing you do with your child?
OK i'll bite on this one
why would I choose to spank my child when I can find another option for a daycare child-why wouldn't I use that same option for my own child--this is the question, correct?
1. just because something "works" temporarily for a dck, doesn't mean it actually is going to stop any behaviors permanently. ie. distracting a child does nothing to teach him his behavior is wrong-yet it's one of the "experts" favorite tools
2. I am responsible to God and to society (now and in the future) for the behavior of MY children, not the daycare children I have for a short time.
3. I am responsable for providing an environment for dcks that is a different environment from the one I need to provide for my own children in many ways, discipline being only one.
4 My children are my LIFE -although I love my dcks to bits, they are not the same as my own, and I don't think anyone other than a parent should spank a child-the relationship is not the same and the love that is involved in a spankng done correctly would not be there for a child that is not your own
I'm sure if I took the time, i could answer this better, but this is what i've come up with off the top of my head. I hope this explains it for you
(also remember that just because this is true for me, doesn't mean it's true for everyone that believes in the value of spanking)
09-15-2010 11:17 AM
MyAngels
Quote:
Originally Posted by laundryduchess@yahoo.com View Post
wow, Ill bite too,.. #1.... california can smooch on my tush ! lol. I DO spank my own kids. I have for 19 years and will continue to do so until they are at an age they no longer require it. (by saying that I mean,.. the 9 yr old, lol, not the 19 yr old. ) eww. lol.

Lets see,.. between the four kids,.. REAL spankings,.. probably 10 total? in 19 years. So they knew if they got one it was something they NEVER did again. And they knew NOT to do whatever they did to get the spanking. Like when the 7 yr old (now 12) just took off down the street, around the corner and down the block to see if her friend was home after I TOLD her she couldnt and then I went to the bathroom.

Or when the 19 yr old was 9 and lied about grade cards and assignments, telling the teacher I was dead and trying to forge his step moms name on his report card. (he didnt know his teacher and I were friends). He enver did that again..... lol.

Or when the 13 yr old didnt know I was standing behind her in the store and used a bad word and said something to the effect of,.. Ill just tell her to kiss by butt. (only she did NOT say buttt) Ummm,... oh no,.I dont talk that way,.. neither will they. so in front of God and everyone else I popped her butt, embarrassed her in front of her friends, and made her think twice about thinking I was out out of earshot. She didnt get a mark, she didnt get beaten, I popped her butt and yes, I would do it again.

I think a balance of what YOU personally believe is how you are the best parent you can be. Noone can make that decision for you,.... And YES I tell my clients I spank my own children, Yes I will swat their behind when the kids are here, Yes I take them to the other room, and yes the other kids know its happening. If daycare clients dont like that they can find another provider,... If one of my own children do something to warrant a spanking, then they get the shame that comes with everyone knowing they got one. However,... Mine arent the ones causing trouble at the store, throwing fits to get things, and NEVER have they raised a hand to me. If they did,.. they WOULD get a spanking. And I HOPE they raise my grandkids the SAME WAY.
Absolutely couldn't agree more! My own kids are grown now, with the oldest thinking about having kids of his own. Get this - he talks often about how he will raise his children exactly the way he was raised, spankings and all. I can't tell you the number of times through the years that my husband and I got compliments about how great our kids are - loving, respectful, helpful and kind. And to think, they suffered the indignity of a handful of spankings and still managed to turn out to be wonderful people in spite of it .
09-15-2010 11:05 AM
MarinaVanessa
Quote:
Originally Posted by laundryduchess@yahoo.com View Post
wow, Ill bite too,.. #1.... california can smooch on my tush ! lol. I DO spank my own kids.
Lol I totally agree with you there. I also spank my 5yo but not during DC hours and yes I live in CA. It's amazing to me that we have come to a point in this country where you can get arrested for terrorism for spanking a misbehaving child on a plane . I choose not to spank my child during daycare hours because you never know when you'll get a parent that goes bonkers on you for whatever reason and calls licensing on you or CPS for spanking, even your own child. It's just the hassle of the investigation that I begrudge. I believe that if a parent wants to spank their child then thats up to them and it's my choice to spank my own child just like I believe that if a woman wants to get an abortion it's up to that woman even if I would never do it and don't agree with abortion. This is America people.
09-15-2010 10:53 AM
laundryduchess@yahoo.com wow, Ill bite too,.. #1.... california can smooch on my tush ! lol. I DO spank my own kids. I have for 19 years and will continue to do so until they are at an age they no longer require it. (by saying that I mean,.. the 9 yr old, lol, not the 19 yr old. ) eww. lol.

Lets see,.. between the four kids,.. REAL spankings,.. probably 10 total? in 19 years. So they knew if they got one it was something they NEVER did again. And they knew NOT to do whatever they did to get the spanking. Like when the 7 yr old (now 12) just took off down the street, around the corner and down the block to see if her friend was home after I TOLD her she couldnt and then I went to the bathroom.

Or when the 19 yr old was 9 and lied about grade cards and assignments, telling the teacher I was dead and trying to forge his step moms name on his report card. (he didnt know his teacher and I were friends). He enver did that again..... lol.

Or when the 13 yr old didnt know I was standing behind her in the store and used a bad word and said something to the effect of,.. Ill just tell her to kiss by butt. (only she did NOT say buttt) Ummm,... oh no,.I dont talk that way,.. neither will they. so in front of God and everyone else I popped her butt, embarrassed her in front of her friends, and made her think twice about thinking I was out out of earshot. She didnt get a mark, she didnt get beaten, I popped her butt and yes, I would do it again.

I think a balance of what YOU personally believe is how you are the best parent you can be. Noone can make that decision for you,.... And YES I tell my clients I spank my own children, Yes I will swat their behind when the kids are here, Yes I take them to the other room, and yes the other kids know its happening. If daycare clients dont like that they can find another provider,... If one of my own children do something to warrant a spanking, then they get the shame that comes with everyone knowing they got one. However,... Mine arent the ones causing trouble at the store, throwing fits to get things, and NEVER have they raised a hand to me. If they did,.. they WOULD get a spanking. And I HOPE they raise my grandkids the SAME WAY.
09-15-2010 10:30 AM
MarinaVanessa Wow yeah, I read the thread by msmiranda on that other forum also and it does seem like it's your DCM (you wouldn't happen to have 4yo also would you?) Seems like a hard position to be in. I'm one of those that also believes that you as a parent can spank if you want to as long as it is your own children and your not "beating" your child. Be thankful that you don't live in CA where spanking even your own children is illegal .

I think you should let them go. Do you really need that kind of drama? I mean like you said, she can wail about how she doesn't want her son to exposed to the word "spank" but she'll allow her son to be physically violent against her? C'mon, really?
09-15-2010 08:06 AM
AfterSchoolMom
Quote:
Originally Posted by missnikki View Post
For crying out loud, people...this has turned into a different topic than the OP but I'll bite...

I can count on one hand the # of times I've swatted my kids' behind. She's 13 and she's doing just fine. Every parent I work with knows and loves her. Many comment on her kindness and respect. They have often come to me with problems of their own looking for an opinion, and guess what- I have said "I can count on one hand the number of times I've swatted my daughter's behind." I am not ashamed of the way I raised my daughter in the least. I know no one is perfect, and we all have our opinions. In the end, can you say your child is respectful of themselves and others? If so, you did something right.

YES! Totally agree.
09-15-2010 07:39 AM
missnikki
Quote:
Originally Posted by MommyMuffin View Post
I think the provider should be open about how they discipline their child. It speaks to their moral code and values! You should be proud of what you do during the day to handle children's natural challenges! If you resort to spanking your children or others maybe there are some child development classes or guidance classes you can take in your area.
For crying out loud, people...this has turned into a different topic than the OP but I'll bite...

I can count on one hand the # of times I've swatted my kids' behind. She's 13 and she's doing just fine. Every parent I work with knows and loves her. Many comment on her kindness and respect. They have often come to me with problems of their own looking for an opinion, and guess what- I have said "I can count on one hand the number of times I've swatted my daughter's behind." I am not ashamed of the way I raised my daughter in the least. I know no one is perfect, and we all have our opinions. In the end, can you say your child is respectful of themselves and others? If so, you did something right.
09-15-2010 07:17 AM
MommyMuffin
Quote:
Originally Posted by missnikki View Post
I say let the parents call whoever they would like. At most, an investigation will ensue (fun for everyone!) but while they are within their rights to do so, I find it utterly ridiculous to think that a provider must follow their DCP's wishes regarding the upbringing of their own children. Ridiculous.

Maybe that's something that should be discussed during interviews.
I think the provider should be open about how they discipline their child. It speaks to their moral code and values! You should be proud of what you do during the day to handle children's natural challenges! If you resort to spanking your children or others maybe there are some child development classes or guidance classes you can take in your area.
09-15-2010 07:07 AM
MommyMuffin I will receive criticism for this but I will say it anyways.
I was very shocked when I read this thread. I will not hit or spank my child nor anyone else's and I believe that it is wrong, especially coming from people who's job it is to learn ways of dealing with and teaching children right from wrong. There are always alternatives no matter what! Whether it is a "swat" or "spanking"! Its all the same to me..what is the child learning?
Some people think that it is ok and that is their opinion but I just wanted to put in my 2 cents.
09-15-2010 05:49 AM
kidkair
Quote:
Originally Posted by marniewon View Post
Obviously I wouldn't do it in front of any dck's. And I really don't believe that a dck would spank another child in loving discipline, as I would be doing, so that's pretty much a moot point, huh?
You miss understood me. I didn't mean that another child would spank another child. I meant that say your kid is told no and starts throwing a huge fit and becomes completely uncontrollable and you can't get her to stop for anything. You take her to another room and swat her and she reacts by calming down and you now have her attention because of the swat. Now say another kid starts throwing the same kind of uncontrollable fit for the exact same reason and you are not allowed to swat this child. What do you do? and why can't that be the same thing you do with your child?
09-14-2010 09:18 PM
misol
Quote:
Originally Posted by AfterSchoolMom View Post
That's a very bold and broad statement, but I respect your opinion. I hope you'll respect mine when I say I believe that it is absolutely no one else's business whether or not she gives her own child a swat on the behind on her own time (she has already stated that she has never or would never do so in front of a DCK). Now, it would be a whole different story if she was beating her children with a stick or a belt or backhanding them across the face. That, IMO, qualifies as corporal punishment. Heck, a swat on the rear doesn't even qualify as a "spanking" as far as I'm concerned.
Thanks afterschoolmom, this is the exact point I was trying to make.
09-14-2010 09:16 PM
misol Let me repeat - I HAVE NOT AND WILL NOT EVER spank a kid that is not my own and I DID NOT, HAVE NOT, AND WILL NOT spank my kids in front of a daycare kid. I took her to the bathroom and swatted her twice on the butt while she was wearing a diaper and fully clothed. We came out of the bathroom immediately and she was NOT crying at all. I did not hurt her but I did get her attention which was my intent in the first place. The dcb did not see or hear the indicent take place. He was in the play room playing at the time. My daugher is young so, like a pp said, waiting to spank her after daycare hours defeats the purpose because by then she would have forgotten what she did wrong.

I highly doubt that dcb has been traumatized by hearing me say "The next step is going to be a spanking." If he is so sheltered and has supposedly never even heard the word spank before then how on earth would he even know what I was talking about??????

It baffles me that a mother so passionately against violence and physical punishment would allow her own child to hit and kick her without any consequences. What message is THAT sending? MY CHILDREN were traumatized by witnessing THAT (and frankly so was I!!!) It's happened on more than one occasion at my house so I can only imagine what the scene is like at their home. As a result, I've had to give MY kids a talk about how it is not ok to hit Mom or Dad and how it is important that they are respectful to adults.

I hate to start playing the blame game here but I can assure all of you that this dcb has exposed the kids in my care (including my own) to way more negative and violent behavior than he has ever picked up from here. He is violent and very disrespectful to adults and NOW I understand why it has been nearly impossible for me to curtail these behaviors. I don't blame the child, I blame the parents. In all the years I have been interacting with children I have never had to deal with one like him. It is a nightmare every week when we go on our field trip. On several occasions I have had people look at me and shake their heads in disgust when they see his behavior. I think this reflects negatively on me as a provider because it appears to outsiders as if I have no control over the group of kids in my care even though only one kid is acting out. But, I continue to take the kids out because I don't think the other kids should have to suffer because I have one that misbehaves. The mom has told me herself that it has gotten to the point where she won't even take the kids anywhere without her husband there to help control the chaos.

I am not a monster and I do not "beat" my kids. I would be the first person to call authorities if I thought a child was being abused. I don't spank my children because I DON'T love them, I spank them because I DO love them. Parents who choose not to spank are one thing, but parents who choose not to use ANY form of discipline at all are doing their children (and society) a great disservice. When you raise your child this way, you should be mindful that they will probably not do well in the care of another person so be prepared to stay home with them.

I am sure I will miss them when they are gone but this may be the best for all involved. Our parenting styles are too different. She will be hard pressed to find another provider willing to deal with dcb's behavior. He definitely needs a one on one care situation rather than a group setting.

I am just glad that she trusts me enough to know that I would never hurt her children. What really scares me though, is how he could have just as easily accused me of doing something far worse.
09-14-2010 08:08 PM
marniewon
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidkair View Post
So if your kid did something that warranted being spanked you'd spank them during daycare hours? What would you do if a daycare kid did the exact same thing?
Obviously I wouldn't do it in front of any dck's. And I really don't believe that a dck would spank another child in loving discipline, as I would be doing, so that's pretty much a moot point, huh?
09-14-2010 08:03 PM
safechner Oh my goodness! I just read your daycare mother posted it about you and spanking. Here is http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1261113 . It sounds like she is telling you the truth that she is out of work but I believe she gave you a notice because she wanted to get the kids out of your daycare because of spanking, who knows.
09-14-2010 07:00 PM
AfterSchoolMom
Quote:
Yes I am serious. Corporal punishment should never be used on or near a child.
That's a very bold and broad statement, but I respect your opinion. I hope you'll respect mine when I say I believe that it is absolutely no one else's business whether or not she gives her own child a swat on the behind on her own time (she has already stated that she has never or would never do so in front of a DCK). Now, it would be a whole different story if she was beating her children with a stick or a belt or backhanding them across the face. That, IMO, qualifies as corporal punishment. Heck, a swat on the rear doesn't even qualify as a "spanking" as far as I'm concerned.
09-14-2010 05:27 PM
Jewels I have swated my son on the butt twice, However, I would never do it in front of any other children ever, I think the last thing anyone would want to here, was, miss blah blah, Was hitting little johnny today, And the one poster who posted about corporal punishment was kind of right It doesnt have to be in your policies, but the county daycare laws, say that you will never you any form or physical punishment in your daycare, which does include your own kids, at least that the law where I live, But again, I did swat my son on the butt during daycare hours, but it was in his room, away from the other children.........I just dont think you should ever do it in front of other kids, then you scare all of them. I understand both sides.
09-14-2010 05:16 PM
thatgagirl i PM'd you
09-14-2010 04:59 PM
kidkair
Quote:
Originally Posted by marniewon View Post
That's not anywhere in my regs.....

Editing to add: If I spanked my kids as a measure of discipline, and they did something that warranted being spanked during daycare hours, you can bet it would be handled right then, not later, after daycare hours when they wouldn't even remember what they did wrong!
So if your kid did something that warranted being spanked you'd spank them during daycare hours? What would you do if a daycare kid did the exact same thing?
09-14-2010 04:58 PM
kidkair
Quote:
Originally Posted by AfterSchoolMom View Post
^^^^^^

Are you serious?
Yes I am serious. Corporal punishment should never be used on or near a child.
09-14-2010 03:49 PM
SilverSabre25 I'm going to preface this with saying that although we don't spank, we know that it's a personal choice and that I USUALLY don't have any problem with people who DO spank their kids (my sister does--last resort/only thing that works with that kid kind of thing).

If I were the parent of a child in your daycare, I would not (probably) be terming my children just because I learned that you spank your children UNLESS for some reason I didn't trust that you would NOT do that to mine--and if I didn't trust that then my child probably wouldn't have entered your care in the first place!

I have once borderline terminated a friendship because I learned that the parents spank their children--I was/am still sad about it because this family fits mine in SO many ways that are usually hard to find. But I don't agree with the *particular* philosophy they use (spanking a 9 month old? Or a 14 month old? Or even their just-turned-2 year old multiple times a day for the most MINOR and developmentally normal infractions?) and for that, I felt that it would be hard for me to be friends with them.

I have considered, once or twice, giving my DD a swat on the butt, but have always reconsidered *because that's my choice*. And yet, my DD manages to be very well-behaved for her age, and even when she does act up *I handle it* which is more than can be said for many non-spanking parents. This is because I understand child development and therefore know what going on mentally behind the undesireable behavior. I correct that in so much as I can. So far she's turning out to be a pretty good example of how it's possible to raise a challenging child without spanking, but I don't begrudge others the right to spank.
09-14-2010 02:24 PM
missnikki
Quote:
Originally Posted by marniewon View Post
That's not anywhere in my regs.....

Editing to add: If I spanked my kids as a measure of discipline, and they did something that warranted being spanked during daycare hours, you can bet it would be handled right then, not later, after daycare hours when they wouldn't even remember what they did wrong!
I say let the parents call whoever they would like. At most, an investigation will ensue (fun for everyone!) but while they are within their rights to do so, I find it utterly ridiculous to think that a provider must follow their DCP's wishes regarding the upbringing of their own children. Ridiculous.

Maybe that's something that should be discussed during interviews.
09-14-2010 02:16 PM
marniewon
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidkair View Post
I have to say that if I were that parent I would be calling the county and talking to your licensor. Even if you use spanking on your own kids, you are not allowed to spank them or threaten a physical punishment during daycare hours. You have to treat your children the same as you treat the other kids in the daycare during daycare hours. I would have pulled my kids immediately.
That's not anywhere in my regs.....

Editing to add: If I spanked my kids as a measure of discipline, and they did something that warranted being spanked during daycare hours, you can bet it would be handled right then, not later, after daycare hours when they wouldn't even remember what they did wrong!
09-14-2010 01:43 PM
AfterSchoolMom ^^^^^^

Are you serious?
09-14-2010 01:29 PM
kidkair I have to say that if I were that parent I would be calling the county and talking to your licensor. Even if you use spanking on your own kids, you are not allowed to spank them or threaten a physical punishment during daycare hours. You have to treat your children the same as you treat the other kids in the daycare during daycare hours. I would have pulled my kids immediately.
09-14-2010 09:14 AM
AfterSchoolMom
Quote:
Originally Posted by missnikki View Post
I hope you are working on your waiting list/ advertising those spots. Would you even consider letting her withdraw her notice? Personally, I don't think I would. Well, maybe I would, but I'd definitely spank her first. (kidding)
I know that this situation isn't funny, but missnikki, I almost spit iced tea all over my computer when I read this!


Misol, it sounds like you're much better off without this family. I hope you can fill their spots quickly.
09-14-2010 08:14 AM
misol
Quote:
Originally Posted by TGT09 View Post
Yeah, it doesn't sound like you are too worried about it and neither would I. Spanking IS a personal preference and no one should pass judgement on how you parent your OWN children.
She was clearly passing judgement. Her facial expressions and body language said it all. I explained to her that there is a clear difference between two swats on a diapered bottom and a beating with a belt. It's more to get their attention than to actually hurt them. I offered to continue the discussion with her at another time but then later decided that if she brought it up again I wasn't going to discuss it further. I was just prepared to tell her that if she thinks it's going to be an issue or that her child is in jeopardy of being spanked then this is no longer a good fit.

I totally respect a parent's decision NOT to spank but I don't respect parents who let their children "run the house." There are some parents (like this one) who think that not spanking means no discipline at all. They have ZERO consequences for his actions and behavior. I have witnessed dcb hit mom several times and she never says or does anything. I had to say something to him in front of her because she certainly wasn't going to do it. The funny thing is that I was planning to have a tallk with her about his behavior and ask her for suggestions because there has been no improvement since they started. Now, after this whole spanking bit, I am totally uncomfortable even having this conversation with her!

Quote:
Originally Posted by missnikki View Post
I hope you are working on your waiting list/ advertising those spots. Would you even consider letting her withdraw her notice? Personally, I don't think I would. Well, maybe I would, but I'd definitely spank her first. (kidding)
I wish I had a wait list I have started advertising with reckless abandon though. At this point I would let her withdraw her notice because I need the money. Once I find someone to fill the spaces they are gone. I am figuring that if she truly thought her children were in danger she would have pulled them immediately especially since she isn't working. And this mom CERTAINLY needs a spanking for letting her kids behave the way that they do
09-14-2010 08:04 AM
MyAngels Sounds like this worked out for the best all around. I'm sure you will find a great family to fill their spots soon and never look back. It's difficult providing care for families that don't share your views on parenting and discipline, whether it affects them directly or not.
09-14-2010 07:25 AM
missnikki I hope you are working on your waiting list/ advertising those spots. Would you even consider letting her withdraw her notice? Personally, I don't think I would. Well, maybe I would, but I'd definitely spank her first. (kidding)
09-14-2010 05:51 AM
TGT09 Yeah, it doesn't sound like you are too worried about it and neither would I. Spanking IS a personal preference and no one should pass judgement on how you parent your OWN children.
09-14-2010 05:48 AM
Unregistered This sounds exactly like your situation.
Down to the ages and everything.
Do you think this is you?
https://www.mothering.com/discussion....php?t=1261113
Makes the Internet seem like a smaller world.
I like lurking in both of these forums and these two threads seem like they belong together.
09-14-2010 05:38 AM
momofboys
Quote:
Originally Posted by misol View Post
So, the mom of 2 boys gave me notice today. This was the first time a family has given me notice. It's bittersweet because I need the money like nobody's business but I was going to term them anyway once I found replacements. I have been having behavior issues with 3yo dcb since day one and recently his 14mo brother has has been copying the bad behavior of the older brother (screaming, throwing, hitting, spitting, saying no, etc.) I have already had it with the older boy's antics and definitely cannot take BOTH of them acting like that.

Now rewind back to last Friday. Mom comes in and tells me that dcb3 told her that I spanked him. (Nothing can be further from the truth.) She said she didn't believe it was true but thought she should ask me about it since he said it more than once that night. I said "Really, I'm surprised that he would say that because I never have and never would hit him or any dck." She said I know, I don't know where he got that from or why he said that. I said "Maybe he was referring to me spanking DD (2yo)? Her eyes widened and she was like "OH?" I said yes, the other day DD was misbehaving and after trying other solutions I told her that the next step was going to be a spanking. She seemed shocked and appalled. So I explained to her that DH and I use spanking as a last resort but we do spank our own children if it becomes necessary . I assured her that while DCB may have heard me threaten the spanking, he has not ever witnessed (or even heard) me spank either of my kids. After I stated my position she told me that spanking is a personal decision and they their family chooses not to (which is QUITE obvious from the boys' behavior). She babbles on and on about how they never wanted their kids to even hear the word spank, etc. etc. The conversation was getting long and I needed to get back to the kids but I told her if she wanted to discuss the matter further, we could do that at a later time. She said that she didn't want to so that was that. I don't think that she believed that I hit her son but I do think that she was very surprised to learn that I believe in spanking. The conversation left us both with a sour taste in our mouths. This was Friday. Monday she gave me notice.

The reason she gave was that they could not afford to continue fulltime care for the boys while she is out of work. She has a job where once she finishes up a project, she is out of work until another project is available - could be days could be weeks. She said that she was giving me notice to cover her butt in case she doesn't get called back to work for the next two weeks. She was implying that if she gets a call in the next week or so that she would withdraw her notice but I'm not sure I believe that. Now granted, she asked me for a price break a few weeks ago but before I got back to her with an answer, she was back working again so it became a non-issue. I can't help but wonder if this is more about me spanking my kids than it is about her not working.
I'm sorry! But it sounds like maybe it's for the best, especially if the boys have terrible behavior. I hope you can find someone else quickly to replace them!
09-14-2010 02:33 AM
Michael Some older posts on notice: http://www.daycare.com/forum/tags.php?tag=notice
09-13-2010 11:20 PM
misol So, the mom of 2 boys gave me notice today. This was the first time a family has given me notice. It's bittersweet because I need the money like nobody's business but I was going to term them anyway once I found replacements. I have been having behavior issues with 3yo dcb since day one and recently his 14mo brother has has been copying the bad behavior of the older brother (screaming, throwing, hitting, spitting, saying no, etc.) I have already had it with the older boy's antics and definitely cannot take BOTH of them acting like that.

Now rewind back to last Friday. Mom comes in and tells me that dcb3 told her that I spanked him. (Nothing can be further from the truth.) She said she didn't believe it was true but thought she should ask me about it since he said it more than once that night. I said "Really, I'm surprised that he would say that because I never have and never would hit him or any dck." She said I know, I don't know where he got that from or why he said that. I said "Maybe he was referring to me spanking DD (2yo)? Her eyes widened and she was like "OH?" I said yes, the other day DD was misbehaving and after trying other solutions I told her that the next step was going to be a spanking. She seemed shocked and appalled. So I explained to her that DH and I use spanking as a last resort but we do spank our own children if it becomes necessary . I assured her that while DCB may have heard me threaten the spanking, he has not ever witnessed (or even heard) me spank either of my kids. After I stated my position she told me that spanking is a personal decision and they their family chooses not to (which is QUITE obvious from the boys' behavior). She babbles on and on about how they never wanted their kids to even hear the word spank, etc. etc. The conversation was getting long and I needed to get back to the kids but I told her if she wanted to discuss the matter further, we could do that at a later time. She said that she didn't want to so that was that. I don't think that she believed that I hit her son but I do think that she was very surprised to learn that I believe in spanking. The conversation left us both with a sour taste in our mouths. This was Friday. Monday she gave me notice.

The reason she gave was that they could not afford to continue fulltime care for the boys while she is out of work. She has a job where once she finishes up a project, she is out of work until another project is available - could be days could be weeks. She said that she was giving me notice to cover her butt in case she doesn't get called back to work for the next two weeks. She was implying that if she gets a call in the next week or so that she would withdraw her notice but I'm not sure I believe that. Now granted, she asked me for a price break a few weeks ago but before I got back to her with an answer, she was back working again so it became a non-issue. I can't help but wonder if this is more about me spanking my kids than it is about her not working.

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