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03-02-2018 03:41 PM
happymom It seems far out there now that I think about it.

The behavior just really reminded me of my son when he was having frequent ear infections. I'd notice the behaviors first, and then a few hours later he wouldn't eat and then we'd be treating an ear infection that night.

I'm sorry you are dealing with it though, it sounds like a nightmare.
03-02-2018 03:27 PM
tenderhearts Oh I see what you mean.
Well according to her parents an incident happened at her grandparents that they are not exactly sure what happened but something with wind, a branch falling off a tree and her getting wet in a puddle, they are not sure how all of this went into play. So I don't think it's her ears but to rule it out I can suggest it to her parents. Thanks
03-02-2018 03:09 PM
happymom
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenderhearts View Post
Hmm what would ear problems have to do with it? Just curious
My thought process is that if she has a problem with her ear, maybe the wind causes her pain? My son had chronic ear infections and when he has an ear infection he acts JUST LIKE you describe. Sensitive ears could be worsened by the wind or swimming.

I'm not sure, just an idea.
03-02-2018 03:03 PM
tenderhearts Hmm what would ear problems have to do with it? Just curious
03-02-2018 12:52 PM
happymom Have they had her assessed by an ENT to make sure she doesn't have any problems with her ears?
03-02-2018 12:04 PM
tenderhearts I just don't know exactly what to say to them, I"m not good with things like this. I'm just so frustrated. Yesterday she didn't do much crying, but today she has been crying all day long. I have no idea why, I ask her and all she says is she misses her mom and dad. She started crying at lunch and I know why because she didn't like what they were having. She didn't say that but I know because it was right after someone asked what was for lunch. (when I know someone doesn't particularly like something I always make sure there are other options, fruit, veggie that they do like). She is now crying again.
I know that I need to say or do something. Today at lunch all the kids were talking about her crying and asking why she is crying. I quietly told mom a couple of days ago that it was a rough day and figuring she would call and want to talk about it, they haven't.
02-28-2018 09:55 AM
Blackcat31
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenderhearts View Post
I feel like a bad provider though if I told them to pick her up or if I told them that they need to find other care.
You are NOT a bad provider for asking the parents to pick up a child that is crying. Its not fair for her, not fair to you and definitely not fair to the other kids to have to endure that.

As a parent, I'd be upset if I thought my non-crying child was subjected to non-stop whining, crying from a 5 yr old....it's VERY stressful and for those too young to understand or manage, that type of stimulation is negative and it impacts their well being more than we realize.

Any provider that has felt the relief of not having a difficult child in care can related to that feeling of exhilaration and automatic feeling of less stress when the difficult child is not present for the day. Imagine a child having to handle that..

I don't think you should terminate their care but I definitely think you need to set up some rules/boundaries with both the child and the parents. Discuss how long and maybe for what reasons you will deal with the crying and what length of time or what things you are not willing to endure and will then call for pick up.

If she is clearly crying for no real reason other than you will not be her adult, have a swift and immediate consequence for her....(straight to nap time maybe) and if you are planning to go outside, let the parent know ahead of time that you will be going outside today after snack at 3:00 so she'll need to get picked up prior to that time so the wind doesn't scare her.

I don't know...I think it's fixable but only with firm boundaries, consequences and the willingness to give back a large portion of the issue to the parents to manage since they are cultivating it and not trying to stop it.

********************

Another tactic ...

Sometime totally buying into what the parent says works well... "Oh, mom you are absolutely right! I can see that Janie is terrified of the wind. I don't want her to get upset this afternoon so you'll probably have to make arrangements to have someone come pick her up before we go out at 3:00. I know it is inconvenient but gosh, I just don't want Janie to cry and be scared so I'm sure you totally understand. Thanks! See you a little before 3:00"

That ^^ type of thing.
02-28-2018 09:21 AM
tenderhearts Plus I think what bothers me the most about her sitting here and crying is that it doesn't just effect her, it effects everyone, no one wants to hear someone cry all day, not to mention it upsets another child.
02-28-2018 09:19 AM
tenderhearts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
Co-sleeping absolutely plays a role in this issues.
Your DS may co-sleep as well but it's obvious you support and encourage independent behaviors whereas this family has outright told the provider they do not encourage or support but instead are hostages to their own child.

I don't believe for one second it's separation anxiety but instead is "You won't be MY adult like my parents are and I don't like that" type of reaction to an environment where the adult is in control and not allowing her to be.

If this were a 3 yr old, I might think differently but this child is 5 and is not a newly enrolled child.
Exactly!!
02-28-2018 09:18 AM
tenderhearts I do agree that it may not all be from her co sleeping, but to do with what blackcat said. They stop everything for her, especially dad. I don't know what would change at their home but she is back and forth between both grandparents one/two days per week. She has never slept or been away from her parents except daycare and the one or two days per week the grandparents rotate and watch her. I know dad has had some "issues" with Mom's parents but nothing has ever been really said to me other than something that didn't pertain to this but her "wind" fear that he believes started from there. This issue didn't arise until about 2 months ago and it has gotten worse. Nothing has changed here at all, no ones schedules, no new kids, nothing. Mom thinks it may have something to do with school, they have been talking about her going to kindergarten the last few months and she thinks maybe she's afraid because she doesn't know exactly what that means. I just don't see how that has anything to do with watching a movie alone or freaking out when mom and dad leave the room. Which I know they stay when she does this or tell her to come with them because he told me. I mean I'm not trying to be insensitive to her fears, I know we all have fears, it's just frustrating that they aren't trying to deal with it. Same with the wind fear, they were stopping every outdoor activity if she was afraid, he asked what I would do and i told him I would not stop all my fun and activities because of that, I said I would comfort her and show her through it, doing or reading things related to the wind, but I don't believe they did that from talking with them, the subject kind of went cold because I think he knows they are enabling it but doesn't want to admit it.
I feel like a bad provider though if I told them to pick her up or if I told them that they need to find other care. My husband says that she'll only have the same issues some where else but I said I realize that but it's more that maybe the parents will realize they need to seek help for her. I just don't know I've had this little girl for 3 1/2 years.
02-28-2018 09:00 AM
Blackcat31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ac114 View Post
I donít think this has anything to do about consleeping. My 4 year old still sleeps with us and is the most independent little guy I know. Very strong willed and an over all emotionally stable person.

This issue has to do with separation anxiety that they are feeding into instead of getting the proper help for her. She needs evaluated and they need to set boundaries. Itís not normal for a 5 year old to cry when someone leaves the room. Something traumatic may have happened recently and the parents are not forthcoming. Anything from sexual abuse to going away for a weekend and leaving her with someone she didnít feel secure with.

If you canít handle to crying, I would call for pick up. I personally canít listen to it from a 5 year old all day long.
Co-sleeping absolutely plays a role in this issues.
Your DS may co-sleep as well but it's obvious you support and encourage independent behaviors whereas this family has outright told the provider they do not encourage or support but instead are hostages to their own child.

I don't believe for one second it's separation anxiety but instead is "You won't be MY adult like my parents are and I don't like that" type of reaction to an environment where the adult is in control and not allowing her to be.

If this were a 3 yr old, I might think differently but this child is 5 and is not a newly enrolled child.
02-28-2018 08:57 AM
Blackcat31
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenderhearts View Post
Update on this. I finally had a really long talk with the parents about this. Conclusion that she has issues with being alone, they said that when they aren't in the room with her she panics and freaks out, here it is that she doesn't want to watch the movie alone, not that she is alone but that no one is constantly "beside" her on the couch.
So she found out that one of the other kiddos is out today so she has been doing nothing but crying the last hour. I am patient trying to explain to her that she isn't alone just because someone isn't on the couch with her, I'm here I just not going to lay beside her. (she sleeps with mom and dad).
Would you call the parents and tell them to pick her up? It is in my contract that if a child is crying and uncontrollable and not interacting normally that I can't properly take care of them or the other children. However if I do this then she wins, that is exactly what she wants. This is so frustrating, all the kids keep asking why she's crying and why she's sad and keep watching her. I just don't know what to do with this.
Honestly yes, I would call the parents.

I absolutely believe children have fears of unknown and new situations but from everything you've said about this child (in this thread and your previous one) it sounds to me like the parents are cultivating this anxiety and this need to have things a certain way.

I would absolutely bow out of it.....this is the situation THEY created by catering to her and I don't think you should have to continually listen to crying (even quietly) or whining all day....the focus of her attention seems to vary as things change within your daily routine and it's clear that she is not in control of so she whines/cries.

Even her parents are telling you that she runs the show.
She has an adult at her beck and call at home so she telling you through her actions that she is not happy that you aren't willing to be "her personal adult" like her parents are for her.

Because I believe (based on what you've posted so far) that this issue is parent rooted, I would call for pick up.

So sorry you are having to deal with that.
02-28-2018 08:52 AM
Ac114 I donít think this has anything to do about consleeping. My 4 year old still sleeps with us and is the most independent little guy I know. Very strong willed and an over all emotionally stable person.

This issue has to do with separation anxiety that they are feeding into instead of getting the proper help for her. She needs evaluated and they need to set boundaries. Itís not normal for a 5 year old to cry when someone leaves the room. Something traumatic may have happened recently and the parents are not forthcoming. Anything from sexual abuse to going away for a weekend and leaving her with someone she didnít feel secure with.

If you canít handle to crying, I would call for pick up. I personally canít listen to it from a 5 year old all day long.
02-28-2018 08:38 AM
tenderhearts Update on this. I finally had a really long talk with the parents about this. Conclusion that she has issues with being alone, they said that when they aren't in the room with her she panics and freaks out, here it is that she doesn't want to watch the movie alone, not that she is alone but that no one is constantly "beside" her on the couch.
So she found out that one of the other kiddos is out today so she has been doing nothing but crying the last hour. I am patient trying to explain to her that she isn't alone just because someone isn't on the couch with her, I'm here I just not going to lay beside her. (she sleeps with mom and dad).
Would you call the parents and tell them to pick her up? It is in my contract that if a child is crying and uncontrollable and not interacting normally that I can't properly take care of them or the other children. However if I do this then she wins, that is exactly what she wants. This is so frustrating, all the kids keep asking why she's crying and why she's sad and keep watching her. I just don't know what to do with this.
02-09-2018 09:59 AM
tenderhearts Yes Michael same one. Her anxiety of others things mostly me leaving the room has now developed. She was never like that before until few months ago.
She used to fall asleep when she got here in the mornings she was sleeping so long, I'm sure she would have slept longer had the other kids not woke her up. She hasn't been falling asleep the past month though.
I have been very gentle with her, constantly reassuring her with everything, but I also wont "baby" her like her parents do, which is partly why I think her anxiety is getting worse. They do what she wants to do, she doesn't like something, they don't do it, she doesn't want to go some where, they don't go, she doesn't want what they are having for dinner, they make what she wants, she wants to watch something on tv, that's what they watch, it's ridiculous.
02-08-2018 09:32 PM
Michael Is this the same one you had back in 2016? https://www.daycare.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83427
02-08-2018 01:43 PM
Ariana How about popping her down for a short nap as soon as she gets to daycare? I am really surprised she does not nap at your house. Maybe it isnít exhaustion at all. No idea!
02-08-2018 12:44 PM
hwichlaz Maybe they would listen to a therapist. Sheís having anxiety that is affecting her quality of life. She needs to be seen and evaluated.
02-08-2018 12:00 PM
Mom2Two Sounds like some anxiety or something. Maybe go very gently with her to try to build trust.
02-08-2018 10:35 AM
Homebody My son doesn't like the wind either, but he has sensory issues to other things as well. Does she have any other sensitivities to her environment?
02-08-2018 10:12 AM
tenderhearts I don't think its causing issues because I'm talking to the parents about it. She doesn't even know unless they are telling her what I'm saying which I doubt.
I do agree with you Ariana about sleep deprivation, she is always so tired in the mornings, to the point she just sits around and whimpers or just sits there, which I don't allow, I tell her if she doesn't get up and play then I'll set up a nap mat for her, she will then go and interact. She is completely different in the afternoons, she is like how she used to always be, bubbly, playful, loud (lol) she doesn't nap but she does have quiet time. I've asked her parents what they are going to do when she starts school because kindergarten here is full days 5 days a week. So no weaning into it.
02-08-2018 09:02 AM
Ariana My take on the situation is that if the parents are not going to change at home there is very little you can do at daycare. Sleep is so so so important for emotional regulation. Without sleep kids can get bothered and weepy by all kinds of stuff, they essentially become emotional messes. Co sleeping children IME are a mess. They are not getting restful sleep and the bulk of their sleep time is at night. She is likely a bit sensitive to the wind and then with lack of sleep she is really bothered by it.

So I would either put up with it until it is time for her to go to school or let the parents know you want changes at home so she gets more sleep (donít count on this ever happening because cosleeping parengs are usually very selfish and do what is best for them no matter how it is affecting their kid)
02-08-2018 08:55 AM
BrynleeJean its sounds like your doing what you can, suggesting to the parents what you see is maybe causing an issue for her at the daycare.
I had a boy for almost 2 years who got increasingly whinny i guess before he went to school he also slept in moms/dads bed idk if that caused some of it, he didnt have an issue with wind this just reminded me that it seemed like he maybe just got bored? id give him plenty to do, but always made him be part of our group, not come follow me around which is what he wanted to do, and the closer to school he got the more it seemed he was just ready to go, we didnt have any friends his age in care at the time.
i hope you find a solution soon
02-08-2018 08:46 AM
tenderhearts I have a 5 yr old dcg who has been with me since she was just almost 2yrs. I think it was 2 summers ago she developed a fear of the wind, caused a lot of issues, just non stop crying, (not loudly) just crying to herself and just sitting in the play house, any ways it was there last summer as well and it is difficult because it upsets a couple of my other kids. Anyways the parents were stopping doing things because of this if they were "outdoor" activities. Then increasingly she doesn't like it when I'm not in the room, so at quiet time they watch a movie and I'm not "sitting' out here all the time, I'm back and forth from one room to another, cleaning up lunch ect. It's not far and I can hear everything, so when I"m not in the room she will lay out here and cry. She now cries every day her mom drops her off, this started maybe a week ago. I've asked mom if she knew what was upsetting her or if it was something here or at home and she just says that she's "tired" and it's nothing here.
I've tried asking dcg but she just looks at me, or she will sometimes say she misses her mom, or sometimes she will say I don't want you to leave the room.
I know at home she sleeps with her parents, I think since she has been here she has never slept in her own room. They don't even try, and it's whatever she wants to do they do. Dad has said since she's in our room and she goes to bed when we do (which is late) we don't ever get to watch what we want to watch. They are in there mid to late 40's and she is an only child.
I've explained to the dad with the wind issue that they needed to find "wind" things to do and try to explain it to her and not stop doing outdoor things because of the wind, she needs comfort through it but it isn't going to help her to not go out in the wind.
I don't know does anyone have any suggestions? She will be going to kindergarten in the fall too.

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