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03-16-2021 09:02 AM
Rockgirl
Quote:
Originally Posted by hwichlaz View Post
California law specifies that children have the RIGHT to care in their own neighborhoods and it is thus protected.

Also, at the time of the original post there were Covid waivers in effect that allowed small daycares to have additional children.
I wasn’t the one saying there shouldn’t be daycares in residential areas....I have one, myself.
03-16-2021 07:36 AM
Sunshine69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Day cares should not be allowed in residential areas unless they are indoors. These kids are outside all day.
You should take this up with your state’s daycare licensing dept. Most states require providers allow a minimum amount of time outdoors every day as long as it is not above or below certain temperatures. Your solution is sure to cause a childcare shortage. I wouldn’t run a daycare where kids couldn’t get outside to play. They would destroy my home without the release of energy outdoor play provides.

I wonder if all my neighbors would be willing to pay for the damage to my home just so they don’t have to listen to my daycare kids outside. I haven’t heard a single complaint from any of my neighbors though. They all make their fair share of noise. I live in a single house development is a fairly rural area and I’m still bothered by neighbors who have family/marital spats in the wee hours of the morning, several neighbors who like to rev their Harleys and loud cars, neighbors having parties, lighting fireworks, planes from a nearby small airport, helicopters from a National Guard base, blasting from a local quarry that shakes my home, the trucks that pick up the materials from that quarry, etc. There’s noise everywhere. Sometimes I have to close my windows and turn on the a/c or a sound machine so that my daycare kids can nap or I can sleep at night. I have the right to relocate if it gets to be too much.
03-16-2021 06:53 AM
Snowmom
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Day cares should not be allowed in residential areas unless they are indoors.
That's a pretty bold and ignorant statement.

There are two providers, including myself, who have in home daycares in my neighborhood. We both have up to 12 kids. Our homes are more orderly, peaceful and QUIETER than the overwhelmed stay at home mom of two up the street from us. She's 5 doors down from me and I can hear her yelling and her kids screaming while INSIDE MY HOUSE full of kids.
Loud people are just going to be loud, no matter the circumstances... daycare, no daycare, 1 kid, 8 kids.

What you're saying above is the equivalent of putting restrictions on how many children a woman can birth or adopt. It's just nonyabizness.
03-15-2021 03:43 PM
hwichlaz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockgirl View Post
I sympathize, and agree that your neighbor’s daycare noise does sound excessive, but we’re not all like that. I don’t allow screaming, even outside. Outside voices, yes. Screaming, no.
California law specifies that children have the RIGHT to care in their own neighborhoods and it is thus protected.

Also, at the time of the original post there were Covid waivers in effect that allowed small daycares to have additional children.
03-03-2021 05:29 AM
Meeko I have my daycare in the basement of our home. 16 kids. My husband works upstairs in his office which is directly above the playroom.
He has Alexa play fairly loud rain sounds all day. It blocks out a LOT of the noise from below and he finds it actually calming to listen to. It is rain in a forest, so sounds of rain falling on the leaves etc..
We actually sleep with the same sounds playing at night. I am a light sleeper and so sounds from the road etc wake me a lot. Playing the background noise works wonders.
03-02-2021 01:12 PM
Rockgirl
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Day cares should not be allowed in residential areas unless they are indoors. These kids are outside all day.
I sympathize, and agree that your neighbor’s daycare noise does sound excessive, but we’re not all like that. I don’t allow screaming, even outside. Outside voices, yes. Screaming, no.
03-02-2021 11:40 AM
Unregistered I can completely relate. My neighbor ( here in LA ) let's the kids scream all day. The babies cry sometimes for an hour straight.. ( she told me she let's them "cry it out". We had a police intervention as all the neighbors were infuriated. The one behind had to sell their home to escape it. She blasts music outside for dance time 30-45 min straight( Baby Shark etc... ) I work from home ( Covid) and I own my house. I can't escape it and can't have meetings between 9am - and 12 noon. It is crazy how she let's these kids scream at the top of their lungs and never tells them to stop. The police come and make comments about how I am clearly not a mom ( WTF? ) When friends come to stay ( yes even with their kids ) they are horrified by the behavior. Day cares should not be allowed in residential areas unless they are indoors. These kids are outside all day.
11-24-2020 01:27 PM
AmyKidsCo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandaluver21 View Post
I strongly dislike kids screaming when they play, it isn't safe. If I hear a kid screaming I want to KNOW they are screaming because something is wrong, not have to guess. We have a big grassy area behind our house and neighbor kids play out there a lot, sometimes screaming. I never know if it's something I should go check on or if they are just playing. I try to teach our kids to only scream if they are hurt or scared, NOT when playing.
I totally agree! When my kiddos get too loud I tell them "my neighbors don't want to hear that noise." I do allow them to scream by the music wall in the far back of the yard. Those neighbors are hoarders and heaven only knows what critters are living in the piles of junk they have on the other side of the fence.
11-19-2020 12:49 PM
Pestle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandaluver21 View Post
I strongly dislike kids screaming when they play, it isn't safe. If I hear a kid screaming I want to KNOW they are screaming because something is wrong, not have to guess.
OMG same. My own 8yo is the worst perpetrator of this. "Are you dying? You are screaming like you're dying. Should I be calling an ambulance right now?"
"Sorrrrrrrry."
11-19-2020 12:32 PM
Pandaluver21 So I had the kids out today and they were LOUD but I don't allow them to scream (it was all laughing)
I do not raise my voice inside or out, so that's not an issue. We are only out there for 30minutes mid morning, but are RIGHT next to our neighbors, so I do try to keep it to a dull roar :P

My mom has a daycare behind her house and I can tell you every child's name, because it's usually YELLED by the provider on a daily basis :|

I strongly dislike kids screaming when they play, it isn't safe. If I hear a kid screaming I want to KNOW they are screaming because something is wrong, not have to guess. We have a big grassy area behind our house and neighbor kids play out there a lot, sometimes screaming. I never know if it's something I should go check on or if they are just playing. I try to teach our kids to only scream if they are hurt or scared, NOT when playing.
11-19-2020 11:27 AM
Pestle I'm not plugged into the gaming community, but I know that gaming headphones are a big industry, and they might be a partial solution that's worth the investment. There are all kinds of headphones, including some that allow ambient noise into your ears and some that don't, and many with microphones designed to only pick up what you're saying and not what's happening around you. Reddit has a gaming headphones forum where you can request recommendations for your computer, what you're using them for, and your budget. I'm on there today, trying to find my husband a set with good mic monitoring so he can hear how LOUD he is being and not traumatize everyone in the house and probably all of his D&D buddies.

If you can work with a sound machine or music, adding headphones will mean one more level of sound absorption between yourself and the screamy kids.

I'm sorry this is happening! My current batch of kids is in the 18-24 mos range, and they are pretty shrieky. I take them inside when it gets out of hand, but they're definitely louder at this nominally-verbal age just for the fun of it, and they're pushing boundaries and don't have the compassion that develops later. Reasoning and laying down rules works better with older toddlers. At this age, I'm just trying to prevent the undesirable behaviors from becoming habitual. I transition the kids from one activity to another any time somebody starts to lose it or decides to make trouble for their own entertainment, but with this age group, that is pretty much nonstop. When it comes to the sounds that other humans are making, there aren't any ways to make them stop that are legal. Sometimes I daydream about that Get Smart Cone of Silence.
11-19-2020 11:09 AM
daycarediva My neighbors are almost all older or retired, and being a considerate person, we tell them to use speaking voices (not screaming). I have had zero complaints and my neighbors complain about LEAVES in our wooded area.

I am sorry you're going through this.
11-13-2020 06:57 AM
Ariana It honestly sounds like you have tried everything! When I am outside with the kids I am hyper aware that their noises are bothering the neighbours but my group is not loud at all unless I have started a new baby who is not used to being outside, but that typically lasts a week or so. It is not my contention that kids are supposed to be loud. If they are actively engaged in activities it’s not loud at all.

I think the only option is to go somewhere else to work OR move. It really sucks
11-12-2020 03:32 PM
e.j. I know kids playing outside can get loud and occasional crying is to be expected with a large group but encouraging the kids to howl as loudly as they can and blasting music is a whole other thing. That's just rude and thoughtless, in my opinion. My house is surrounded by fields for the most part but I still make sure my day care kids are respectful of the few neighbors who could possibly hear them. Are other neighbors being disturbed, too? If so, would they be willing to speak with her as well? I'm thinking maybe if the provider understood it isn't just you but several others she's affecting, maybe she'd be better at trying to keep things a little quieter? Hopefully it doesn't get to that point but if you have to call in a noise complaint, I wouldn't feel too bad about it. It sounds as though you've tried to be nice; she's not trying very hard to do her part. Good luck!
11-12-2020 12:26 PM
Rockgirl You’ve gotten some good suggestions.

I honestly can’t imagine letting my daycare children scream at the top of their lungs, since we do live in town, with neighbors close by. Outside voices, yes, of course. I don’t allow them to scream.

I hope you find a solution that helps!
11-12-2020 12:18 PM
MomBoss The only thing I can think of is calling the police for “disturbing the peace”. Maybe they will do something, maybe they wont. But if your at your wits end..you may have to try.
11-12-2020 11:49 AM
Stressed & Annoyed Thank you to those who took the time to respond with such thoughtful responses! Here's my long post responding to everyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael View Post
Welcome to the forum. We are a fairly civil group.

I see that your IP is in southern California. Is that correct? I was thinking that if you were in a colder state, the children would naturally be inside more during winter. So that solution doesn't seem to help. I know how kids screaming can get on your nerves. Before I had children, I was the same way. I am an audio person, so I hear things that easily interrupt me. I try now to think that of the sound of children means that a neighborhood is alive and growing. I put a positive spin on it. I know that probably doesn't help you.

Have you thought about moving your office to the opposite side of your house? If you have a large SUV, possibly you can conduct your most important online meetings in your car. They are pretty sound proof depending on the car.

I seems like your neighbor is trying to help. Likewise, running a daycare can be a lot for her to handle. The only thing that stood out in your thread is that she had 8+ children. In California, if she is a small home, she may be over ratio. (too many children for one person to care for).

With COVID hurting incomes, she may be taking on more than she can handle.
Hi Michael, thank you for your suggestion and insight! You are correct, that I'm in Southern California. I've done some research on home daycares, and I know the state protects and even favors home childcare facilities, which I think is great. My problem isn't with home daycares, but with the loud sound pollution the one next to me produces.

I've definitely tried putting a positive spin on the sound of lively children, but when it started affecting my performance at work, positive thinking didn't really cut it anymore. Glad to hear that I'm not the only one who is sensitive to sounds and can be easily distracted. I've considered many things, but working out of my car is not an option. I'm in those typical Zoom calls where my camera is always on, and I need to have a flat surface to take notes on the side (pen and paper kind of person) and navigate swiftly on my computer.

I believe the daycare is licensed for up to 14 children, and she does have 1-2 helpers at any given time.

Quote:
I believe she is allowed to daycare as a renter in California, so calling her landlord may or may not help.

Her taking the kids off site to a park may not be an option for her either via regulations or that she can't manage them in an open setting without bathrooms or having multi level age group kids wherein the infants need attention which would make it difficult to supervise the older kids on equipment.

I really don't see an out for you. Any suggestions of time they are out wouldn't work. She is going to go in and out based on nap schedules, feeding schedules, arrival and departure schedules etc. It's not really something she can preplan as daycare is fluid on the day to day.

Unless you can figure out somewhere to go off site to work, I can't really see many options. She may have too many kids because the demand is high so I would check her license and see if she is within her limits when they are outside.
Appreciate the comment about why taking her kids outside may not be an option and why scheduled outside time may not work. I never took varying ages and bathroom access into consideration. I have seen her take the kids out to those open spaces before (I'd run into them when I'm out walking my dog sometimes), and so I thought that could be a regular thing. Thanks for offering a different perspective.

One thing I'd like to stress here is that I'm trying not to escalate to the landlord, HoA, or the police of the noise issues. My gripe isn't the daycare itself, but the sound the daycare produces. It may feel like they're mutually exclusive, but I don't think they are. I believe you could be neighborly and considerate about the sound levels while running a successful home daycare. I don't expect absolute silence, but when children are screaming, yelling, wailing, and howling (yup, they had playtime outdoors where they were all wolves and they were having a contest to see who could howl the loudest), it gets to be a bit... grating (to put it delicately).

Quote:
I am so sorry, that sounds awful. It is hard for me to hear it all day and I have the ability to change conditions in the playroom to settle them down at any time. I don't know how I'd handle it if I could not quiet it down at will.

Family childcare is protected, so as long as the landlord is OK with it, there is not much that can be done. It is not the answer you were hoping for and it would not be one I would take easily, either.

You can control your space, though. Have you tried sound machines on that side of the building? Large, deep-toned windchimes on the porches? I know it sounds crazy, but my neighborhood often has gunshots, glasspacks & bass speakers driving by and large machinery noise during naptime; it has really helped.
Thank you so much for the kind response! I haven't tried sound machines on the side of the building. I might have to look into that if it doesn't add too to the noises. Thank you for the suggestion, and glad to hear that it's working out for you so your kiddos can sleep soundly during nap time!

Quote:
You are in an unfortunate situation.

Can you find a Starbucks, Cafe, library etc to work at? A friend's or family's place? Or, even though closed, go to your office to work? Some employers allow that.

Sucks to inconvenience and expose yourself but it seems that you have little recourse other than finding another place to work. And, besides the disruption, your mental health is priority.
Unfortunate, indeed. I don't care to venture out to other venues to work from due to the pandemic, so a café or a public setting is not an option. I have contemplated working at a friend's place, but given how I'm in so many meetings, it would be a huge discomfort for them as well since they won't be able to freely move about in fear that it'll be too loud. I totally agree that mental health is priority, especially in times like these! Hope you're taking care of yours as well.

Be well!

Quote:
That's tough, I'm sorry it's stressing you out.

Other than what's already mentioned, I can suggest a sound board. My brother lined the walls of his room with them after my mom complained that his drums would be the death of her.
It helps! You're likely going to have to put them over your window though since that's where the noise is coming from.

Other than that, you can call in a noise complaint. It's kind of crappy to do since it's children. But... if it's excessive, she should be considerate by maintaining a decent noise level.
What a great suggestion! A sound board. If it's removable (basically placing it and removing frequently everyday), this might be the next best step. I am definitely doing whatever I can to avoid putting in a noise complaint with the HoA or the police. I'd ideally like to resolve this civilly and with the least involvement from others as possible (which is why I'm posting "anonymously" in this forum), but I agree with you that if we cannot figure out a way to make it work, and the excessive noises continue, it might need to be escalated. Very helpful, thank you so much!

Quote:
Does the provider have any type of schedule? Such as maybe a time period when all the children are indoors napping or playing in a structured activity?

If so, maybe you could schedule your important meetings during that quiet time?

I also agree with the previous poster that mentioned ratios. I imagine a group of kids are pretty loud when you aren't the provider or the one actively engaged in caring for them but it seems to be that unless she has more than 10 kids it shouldn't really be the circus you are mentioning.


Does the provider have regular hours or is she open 24 hours a day? A mean spirited part of me thought, well you could always be super loud when the kids are all gone home and she's enjoying her quiet time.

Although that would solve nothing at all and would probably only further add to the issue but I totally understand how you are feeling. I operate a child care in a neighborhood with houses close together and I try hard to make sure my kiddos arent disruptive to the neighbors.

Im sorry you are in this situation. It's a tough environment we are living in right now.
Thanks for all the questions! More than happy to provide additional context.

1. Does the provider have any type of schedule? Such as maybe a time period when all the children are indoors napping or playing in a structured activity?

From what I could tell, it does seem like she tries to keep things on a schedule. Unfortunately, that's only during the first half of the day. The second half of the day, it's a gamble.

2. Maybe you could schedule your important meetings during that quiet time?

Oh, trust me when I say I wish I could! I've tried, but because I'm in 8 meetings on average (per day), and I work with people in multiple timezones, sometimes it's a struggle to even get time scheduled that works for everyone. Definitely not the daycare's problem, but just explaining why I wish I could have more of a regular cadence, but it's just not feasible in my line of work. Quite a bummer!

3. Does the provider have regular hours or is she open 24 hours a day?

Her hours seem pretty regular, but because she's devoted to her daycare, her flexible hours are as early as 7 am until 6:30 pm. But for the most part, the children start arriving at around 7:50-9:00 am, and pick up is usually around 5-6:30 pm.

I wish her having 8-14 kids weren't the circus I'm mentioning, but the children who attend her montessori are just full of life and personality with very strong diaphragms, lol. I can't imagine it's easy for her, which is why I don't walk over to complain about the noise on the spot. If I hear kids crying and being difficult, I can only imagine the last thing on her mind is answering the door. I always approach her once the kids are gone or when I see her over the weekend. There was ONE instance where I had to complain on the spot, and that's because she was blasting Kidz Bop or something VERY loudly in the backyard, and after 20 minutes of listening to the tracks, I was just about to pull my hair out of my head.

I hope your neighbors appreciate how considerate you are, Blackcat31. I wish my neighbor was a bit more cognizant of the noises produced and was more proactive in being a better neighbor like you. To her credit, I do think she tries sometimes, but it's definitely not top of mind for her.
11-12-2020 07:05 AM
Blackcat31 Does the provider have any type of schedule? Such as maybe a time period when all the children are indoors napping or playing in a structured activity?

If so, maybe you could schedule your important meetings during that quiet time?

I also agree with the previous poster that mentioned ratios. I imagine a group of kids are pretty loud when you aren't the provider or the one actively engaged in caring for them but it seems to be that unless she has more than 10 kids it shouldn't really be the circus you are mentioning.


Does the provider have regular hours or is she open 24 hours a day? A mean spirited part of me thought, well you could always be super loud when the kids are all gone home and she's enjoying her quiet time.

Although that would solve nothing at all and would probably only further add to the issue but I totally understand how you are feeling. I operate a child care in a neighborhood with houses close together and I try hard to make sure my kiddos arent disruptive to the neighbors.

Im sorry you are in this situation. It's a tough environment we are living in right now.
11-12-2020 06:38 AM
Snowmom That's tough, I'm sorry it's stressing you out.

Other than what's already mentioned, I can suggest a sound board. My brother lined the walls of his room with them after my mom complained that his drums would be the death of her.
It helps! You're likely going to have to put them over your window though since that's where the noise is coming from.

Other than that, you can call in a noise complaint. It's kind of crappy to do since it's children. But... if it's excessive, she should be considerate by maintaining a decent noise level.
11-12-2020 06:30 AM
dolores You are in an unfortunate situation.

Can you find a Starbucks, Cafe, library etc to work at? A friend's or family's place? Or, even though closed, go to your office to work? Some employers allow that.

Sucks to inconvenience and expose yourself but it seems that you have little recourse other than finding another place to work. And, besides the disruption, your mental health is priority.
11-12-2020 04:29 AM
Cat Herder I am so sorry, that sounds awful. It is hard for me to hear it all day and I have the ability to change conditions in the playroom to settle them down at any time. I don't know how I'd handle it if I could not quiet it down at will.

Family childcare is protected, so as long as the landlord is OK with it, there is not much that can be done. It is not the answer you were hoping for and it would not be one I would take easily, either.

You can control your space, though. Have you tried sound machines on that side of the building? Large, deep-toned windchimes on the porches? I know it sounds crazy, but my neighborhood often has gunshots, glasspacks & bass speakers driving by and large machinery noise during naptime; it has really helped.
11-12-2020 03:51 AM
nannyde I believe she is allowed to daycare as a renter in California, so calling her landlord may or may not help.

Her taking the kids off site to a park may not be an option for her either via regulations or that she can't manage them in an open setting without bathrooms or having multi level age group kids wherein the infants need attention which would make it difficult to supervise the older kids on equipment.

I really don't see an out for you. Any suggestions of time they are out wouldn't work. She is going to go in and out based on nap schedules, feeding schedules, arrival and departure schedules etc. It's not really something she can preplan as daycare is fluid on the day to day.

Unless you can figure out somewhere to go off site to work, I can't really see many options. She may have too many kids because the demand is high so I would check her license and see if she is within her limits when they are outside.
11-11-2020 07:07 PM
Michael Welcome to the forum. We are a fairly civil group.

I see that your IP is in southern California. Is that correct? I was thinking that if you were in a colder state, the children would naturally be inside more during winter. So that solution doesn't seem to help. I know how kids screaming can get on your nerves. Before I had children, I was the same way. I am an audio person, so I hear things that easily interrupt me. I try now to think that of the sound of children means that a neighborhood is alive and growing. I put a positive spin on it. I know that probably doesn't help you.

Have you thought about moving your office to the opposite side of your house? If you have a large SUV, possibly you can conduct your most important online meetings in your car. They are pretty sound proof depending on the car.

I seems like your neighbor is trying to help. Likewise, running a daycare can be a lot for her to handle. The only thing that stood out in your thread is that she had 8+ children. In California, if she is a small home, she may be over ratio. (too many children for one person to care for).

With COVID hurting incomes, she may be taking on more than she can handle.
11-11-2020 06:00 PM
Stressed & Annoyed Hello!

Before I get attacked in this "pro-daycare" message board, I would like to say that I don't have problems with my next door neighbor running a daycare. In fact, I even helped her on a few occasions (English not being her first language, and she's not very tech savvy). I even donated toys, and when I dropped them off, I even stuck around to play with the children for a bit.

Despite my annoyance with the parents being rude and inconsiderate (driving the wrong direction in a one-way roundabout road just to cut through and get to the daycare home 10 seconds quicker, blocking my garage/driveway on several occasions), I've never complained. I was the perfect neighbor (past tense because now I have problems with living next to a daycare). Whenever the daycare home had issues with repairs (an attached home that is being rented by the daycare owner), I would advise her on how to approach her landlord. We had little positive interactions like those throughout the years.

The issues started since Covid. I understand that daycares are more important now than ever, especially with essential workers who have kids. I don't knock that, ever. The problem is that with Covid, I am now working from home as well. I have a role that requires me to be in a lot of meetings, and my position requires some serious heavy thinking, brainstorming, etc. My office window is perched on the side where the daycare has their backyard, so I hear EVERYTHING. Our neighborhood is like an amphitheater, so sounds are amplified. I've tried closing my windows, using noise-cancelling headphones, moving to a different part of the house, everything! I've paired and combined where I could to minimize the disturbance, and nothing works. It's to a point where I wake up dreading another day of mentally dealing with the stresses of the noises - all the screaming, yelling, crying, and stomping children as they play in the backyard.

I've approached the neighbor kindly, and she gave me a very disheartening response of "this is an attached home. Neighbors will just have to hear other neighbors." That was an unexpected response, and I could tell she was getting defensive. I suggested going to the MANY open parks and spaces for the children to run around in (there are literally 5 within a 2-minute or less walking distance) when they need some time outside, and otherwise, to please keep them inside when possible. I asked that she do this only until the pandemic is over and I can start working from the office again.

I'm so stressed by the sound of children playing or throwing tantrums, I'll hear it echoing in my head long after the children have been picked up by their parents. The noises are literally driving me insane. I've had to start recording my meetings so I could review them again at a quieter time because the sound of the children playing in the backyard would distract me beyond the point of productivity.

I've asked her to take the kids inside if they get fussy or too energetic. I asked her to be mindful of my working from home so that I could make a living too. The last time we talked, she gave me her number to text if the kids ever got too loud during my meetings. That went well for a few weeks, until I realized that I was texting her more frequently, and she was responding less to my texts. My assumption is that she lets her kids get as loud as they want until I text her. Only then, would she take that as her cue to quiet them down. But there's nothing preemptive done on her end.

I'm flabbergasted. I'm at my wit's end.

I'm turning to this daycare board in hopes that someone could help me approach this more tactfully.

I've already tried several approaches. Aside from the ones mentioned above, I also recommended that the children only come out during a certain time of the day so I could mentally prepare (this does not work! Children will randomly come out throughout the day to play, and I cannot leave my home office to walk over to complain to her while she's dealing with 8+ rowdy children).

And last but not least, to offer some perspective: I have lived in this home for 15+ years. We recently paid off our home. She is a renter. She's lived in the neighborhood for no more than 10 years. The first few years she's rented the home, she had a different occupation. She had started her daycare maybe about... 5-7 years ago?

For those who have read my post, thank you. I apologize if my post is all over the place. It's not as well-organized as I hoped, but at this point, I've lost my mind. Please approach this with the same level of respect and empathy as I am trying to do for your fellow home daycare owner.

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