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02-18-2019 01:23 PM
Mom2Two Okay, thanks BC and Catherder for clearing that up. I had heard that was only recommended for use up until rolling over, but I think I was thinking "roll over both ways."

It hasn't been an issue for me since I just barely got one in the Fall, and the infant I had switched to neighbor care at about 5 months. I haven't had any infants since then.

I am still going to keep < 5 mths in line of sight for sleeping and I guess I'll just use the mini crib upstairs.
02-15-2019 02:57 PM
Blackcat31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom2Two View Post
I "know" you too well to take offense at anything you'd say.

I'm a bit surprised at the plagiocephaly though. I thought that flat on the back on a hard surface would be much worse for that. I had the idea (just my own thinking) that the rounded positioning of the Rock n Play would help prevent.

We are thinking of the same thing, right?

And btw, I sleep infants < abt 5 mths in line of sight. But 5-8 months I started using the Rock n Play in the Fall.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
On a flat surface, not strapped or wrapped, the head is free to move at will, especially in the case of rebreathing expired air; slow suffocation. http://cjfirstcandle.org/wp-content/...on_Dioxide.pdf

They should be able to roll over and spin around. Being strapped in one position is bad for development but worse as a risk for SUIDS/Positional Asphyxia. https://thestir.cafemom.com/parentin...r-seat-daycare

It is simply not something I'd ever recommend for sleep.
The manufacturer says the Rock and Play is meant to be used for infants unable to roll over or unable to pull up which ever comes first.

A consumer posted on their website asking how it meets APA safe sleep standards and they replied with:

Mattel Consumer Services:

"We can assure you that the Rock ‘n Play Sleeper is safe for inclined sleep, including overnight sleep, when used according to the instructions. And we understand it can be confusing to hear an American Academy of Pediatrics recommendation that may seem to conflict with a product designed for inclined sleep. But maybe this will help clarify: what the AAP states is that sitting devices—car seats, strollers, swings, infant carriers and infant slings—are not recommended for routine sleep in the hospital or at home.
The Rock ‘n Play Sleeper is not a sitting device—it is a product specifically designed for inclined sleep. As such, it meets all applicable industry safety standards, including those of the international standards organization known as the ASTM. We hope that clears up any confusion you may have had. Of course, we encourage you to talk with your pediatrician about what’s right for your child."


***********************************************

However, I think it's important to note that is use by a parent. Not use in child care centers or in home care.

My state would never allow me to use a Rock and Play for sleep.

It's important to note as well that the Rock and Play instructions/paperwork included in the box state that regular floor time is recommended and parents should never allow baby to stay in the Rock and Play for extended periods of time. They even list sleeping as only 6 hours.


I think it gets confusing for parents to know if it is or isn't safe and the information I've read about it seems to be conflicting on every site.

As a child care provider I wouldn't use one.
02-15-2019 02:23 PM
Cat Herder Here are a couple other articles.

https://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2013/05...e-infants.html

"The risk here is not theoretical, as this 2018 report from a mother of a six-month old infant stated:

My 6 month old son was put down for a nap in the Fisher Price Rock n Play. During the time of his nap, he rolled over in the Rock N Play and silently died.

My son was a beautiful, healthy baby and only died because of the Rock N Play and the false sense of security they provide with their false and UNSAFE claims of the Rock N Play being used for safe sleep. The only place for safe sleep for an infant is a flat surface. This death trap needs to be recalled and labeled as a SUPERVISED PLAY PRODUCT so no other family has to lose their child like I have.

The American Academy of Pediatrics warns against using inclined sleepers. The Wall Street Journal writes:

The AAP says any inclined sleeper can make it more difficult for an infant to breathe—either because of the position of the head or a baby’s face getting pushed against the fabric. It says straps don’t help this problem and could strangle an infant.

The Journal notes that Canada has banned inclined sleepers that have over a 7-degree angle—much less than 30-degree angle built-in to the inclined sleepers sold in the US." - https://www.babybargains.com/fisher-...gerous-crutch/
02-15-2019 02:02 PM
Cat Herder
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom2Two View Post
I "know" you too well to take offense at anything you'd say.

I'm a bit surprised at the plagiocephaly though. I thought that flat on the back on a hard surface would be much worse for that. I had the idea (just my own thinking) that the rounded positioning of the Rock n Play would help prevent.

We are thinking of the same thing, right?

And btw, I sleep infants < abt 5 mths in line of sight. But 5-8 months I started using the Rock n Play in the Fall.
On a flat surface, not strapped or wrapped, the head is free to move at will, especially in the case of rebreathing expired air; slow suffocation. http://cjfirstcandle.org/wp-content/...on_Dioxide.pdf

They should be able to roll over and spin around. Being strapped in one position is bad for development but worse as a risk for SUIDS/Positional Asphyxia. https://thestir.cafemom.com/parentin...r-seat-daycare

It is simply not something I'd ever recommend for sleep.
02-15-2019 11:18 AM
Mom2Two
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
Really.

"New parents LOVE the Rock 'n Play™. How do I know? Because it's included as an "essential," "must-have," "lifesaver" item among nearly all baby registry recommendations.

I also know because so many of the parents I personally know (and love) use the Rock 'n Play as their babies' first sleeping spot - conveniently compact and within arm's reach of new mama.

Unfortunately, I also know that new parents love the Rock 'n Play™ because I'm a pediatric Occupational Therapist. A startling number of the babies referred for therapy services for head flattening, neck tightness and motor development issues have spent LOTS of their time sleeping and playing in this piece of baby gear. " - http://www.candokiddo.com/news/rocknplay

And it is illegal for most providers.

Overheating infants is a known top factor in SIDS deaths.

Not wanting to pick at you, just a SIDS mom on a mission, here. I lost my son in daycare with a provider taking these shortcuts, don't want anyone else to.
I "know" you too well to take offense at anything you'd say.

I'm a bit surprised at the plagiocephaly though. I thought that flat on the back on a hard surface would be much worse for that. I had the idea (just my own thinking) that the rounded positioning of the Rock n Play would help prevent.

We are thinking of the same thing, right?

And btw, I sleep infants < abt 5 mths in line of sight. But 5-8 months I started using the Rock n Play in the Fall.
02-15-2019 08:56 AM
littlefriends
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunni Bee View Post
Run away. That sounds like a nightmare in the making.

And the fact that the mom even suggested you hold her child for 2+ hours screams that she has no understanding of group care and will make incompatible and irritating requests on the regular. Especially at one day a week.
I agree with this!
02-14-2019 07:52 PM
HL0605 Thanks for all of the great advice everyone! My instincts were telling me this would not work well, but you all have confirmed exactly how this will be terrible. I let mom know that I will be unable to take her for one day a week now, but if she is interested in enrolling for 3 days a week this summer, AND they start working on safe sleeping now, I would take her then. Still waiting for a reply :-)
02-14-2019 02:46 PM
Cat Herder
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom2Two View Post
Really? Rock n Plays are labeled safe for sleep. And sleep sacks aren't loose.
Really.

"New parents LOVE the Rock 'n Play™. How do I know? Because it's included as an "essential," "must-have," "lifesaver" item among nearly all baby registry recommendations.

I also know because so many of the parents I personally know (and love) use the Rock 'n Play as their babies' first sleeping spot - conveniently compact and within arm's reach of new mama.

Unfortunately, I also know that new parents love the Rock 'n Play™ because I'm a pediatric Occupational Therapist. A startling number of the babies referred for therapy services for head flattening, neck tightness and motor development issues have spent LOTS of their time sleeping and playing in this piece of baby gear. " - http://www.candokiddo.com/news/rocknplay

And it is illegal for most providers.

Overheating infants is a known top factor in SIDS deaths.

Not wanting to pick at you, just a SIDS mom on a mission, here. I lost my son in daycare with a provider taking these shortcuts, don't want anyone else to.
02-14-2019 11:28 AM
Mom2Two
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
Really? Rock n Plays are labeled safe for sleep. And sleep sacks aren't loose.
02-14-2019 08:52 AM
Kimskiddos It would be a pass for me. I have gone to infant only and at the first contact I always ask about feeding and sleep habits. If they don't align with my philosophy then I don't even bother with an interview. There is plenty of need for infant care, so I can be picky.
02-14-2019 06:37 AM
Blackcat31
Quote:
Originally Posted by HL0605 View Post
This will be made worse by the fact that I only have one day a week available now, and won't have more days for her until summer.
I would do one of two things....

Either take baby now one day per week before OR after nap time (no attendance during nap)

or

Let mom know you'll have space available toward summer and if she wants to enroll, she can take advantage of the time between now and summer to sleep train her child.

That way when baby comes for a more full tie schedule, she'll be prepared to nap like required.

If not, that's what the trial period is for.



I don't enroll anyone for only one day a week.
That would be drop in care and I don't offer drop in care to infants.
02-14-2019 06:29 AM
Ariana
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunni Bee View Post
Babe will only be one a day a week. It has 0 chance of working out.
I didn’t read that in her post If that is the case then it definitely won’t work! I had an infant for two days a week and he would cry the first full hour before falling asleep. Grandma has him the rest of the week and rocked him to sleep. No way I could sleep train him in two days. It was terrible. I only did it for a few months because I knew they were leaving.
02-14-2019 06:11 AM
Hunni Bee
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariana View Post
I have dealt with many parents who had bad sleep habits when entering care. I don’t elaborate much and my go to line is “you might be surprised what she will adapt too once she gets used to the routine and sees other kids napping...I have never had a kid not transition well”. Then I sleep train the child when they begin care. Takes 3 days and they are trained and start sleeping really well and meeting their milestones. I do not let the parent know exactly how long they cry but will say “she cried for about 10 minutes and then fell asleep” and then lesson the time you tell the parent each day until she stops. Some kids can take up to 30 minutes of crying before falling asleep (and some barely cry at all) but I do not tell the parent this. Let her live in her lalaland of bad sleep habits. I would put baby in a seperate room with a loud sound machine and video monitor to start.

Just a word of warning that you will likely need to sleep train every Monday after the weekend. Every Monday my routine gets thrown off by overtired kids.
Babe will only be one a day a week. It has 0 chance of working out.
02-13-2019 03:06 PM
Ariana I have dealt with many parents who had bad sleep habits when entering care. I don’t elaborate much and my go to line is “you might be surprised what she will adapt too once she gets used to the routine and sees other kids napping...I have never had a kid not transition well”. Then I sleep train the child when they begin care. Takes 3 days and they are trained and start sleeping really well and meeting their milestones. I do not let the parent know exactly how long they cry but will say “she cried for about 10 minutes and then fell asleep” and then lesson the time you tell the parent each day until she stops. Some kids can take up to 30 minutes of crying before falling asleep (and some barely cry at all) but I do not tell the parent this. Let her live in her lalaland of bad sleep habits. I would put baby in a seperate room with a loud sound machine and video monitor to start.

Just a word of warning that you will likely need to sleep train every Monday after the weekend. Every Monday my routine gets thrown off by overtired kids.
02-13-2019 02:25 PM
Ms.Kay
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommyneedsadayoff View Post
I would pass as well. I dont mind sleep training babies when parents are on board, but 11 months is a very tough age to start. Separation anxiety and stranger danger are strong at that age. Couple that with a new environment and new expectations on sleep and it is going to be miserable for you, the baby, and all the kids in your care. And I don't just mean at nap time. If the baby is used to being carried or rolled in a stroller, then they are a motion baby for sure, which means they're going to expect you to carry them throughout the day as well. Most likely, the child's ability to play on their own will be very limited. And this, of course, will affect other things, like eating and sleeping and everything else the child does. Definitely a hard pass.

Nope.
02-13-2019 01:42 PM
mommyneedsadayoff I would pass as well. I dont mind sleep training babies when parents are on board, but 11 months is a very tough age to start. Separation anxiety and stranger danger are strong at that age. Couple that with a new environment and new expectations on sleep and it is going to be miserable for you, the baby, and all the kids in your care. And I don't just mean at nap time. If the baby is used to being carried or rolled in a stroller, then they are a motion baby for sure, which means they're going to expect you to carry them throughout the day as well. Most likely, the child's ability to play on their own will be very limited. And this, of course, will affect other things, like eating and sleeping and everything else the child does. Definitely a hard pass.
02-13-2019 01:21 PM
CityGarden I would point out licensing requirements for safe sleep and decline the family. I would also suggest individual care such as a nanny until the child has positive safe sleep habits.
02-13-2019 12:33 PM
coloradoprovider
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunni Bee View Post
Run away. That sounds like a nightmare in the making.

And the fact that the mom even suggested you hold her child for 2+ hours screams that she has no understanding of group care and will make incompatible and irritating requests on the regular. Especially at one day a week.
Mom doesn't have a clue.
02-13-2019 11:59 AM
Hunni Bee Run away. That sounds like a nightmare in the making.

And the fact that the mom even suggested you hold her child for 2+ hours screams that she has no understanding of group care and will make incompatible and irritating requests on the regular. Especially at one day a week.
02-13-2019 11:53 AM
Jupadia Most kids I get are about 12 months (with mat leave being a year) so many kids come in with bad sleep habits them and their parents have created. It takes daulyvworkbfor weeks to get most to sleep better. But it also takes 5 days per week. I would say no, with only one day a week wait till summer. Let her know you may have room then, but only if she starts a better sleep routine now. At 1 day per week, you would be battling a uphill battle with a giant wall on the on top and jo way over.
02-13-2019 11:46 AM
DaveA Nope. I'd pass on most infants for 1 day a week. So hard for them to adjust. Combine that with the sleep issue and I don't see it ending well.
02-13-2019 11:22 AM
e.j.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HL0605 View Post
I agree. I've done this for ten years, and have had a lucky run in the past few years to either have kids with parents who prioritize good sleep habits, or little ones who start at 3-4 months and I can make sure they learn good nap habits. The idea of an eleven month old who is only rocked or strolled to sleep seems like a recipe for trouble. This will be made worse by the fact that I only have one day a week available now, and won't have more days for her until summer.

I do have a trial period of two weeks. I have never called after a certain amount of crying for pick up, though. Have you done this in the past? How long is reasonable?

This person is a friend of a current client and while I wasn't looking to fill any spot just yet, they have been very interested and eager to start attending. The only concern I have is the sleeping, but it's kind of a big concern and I want to make sure I do a good job explaining the importance of nap time peace, but in a graceful way. A policy that is clear is probably the best way to do that.
Personally, I wouldn't take her on. Being at your house for only one day a week won't allow her to get used to sleeping in a crib. You can bet, she'll still be sleeping in a stroller at home for the rest of the week because it's easier for mom. If you value nap time as a chance to catch up on things and take a break, know that chances are good you aren't going to get that with this child.

If you decide to take her on, I'd be very frank with the mother and I would let her know she will have to pick her child up any time she is too disruptive during nap time. I'd be sure to call her every time until the problem is resolved.
02-13-2019 11:14 AM
Cat Herder
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom2Two View Post
What about trying a Rock n Play with a sleep sack? Also warmth is very soothing for babies. If the child is wrapped snuggly and is warm enough things might go well.
Please don't do any of that.

https://firstcandle.org/
https://firstcandle.org/creating-inf...p-environment/
02-13-2019 11:12 AM
jenboo Hard pass.
02-13-2019 11:07 AM
Mom2Two Yeah, parents should really be preparing their child for daycare.

I would be frank with her, but if you are interested in giving the family a trial period, I wouldn't rave on about the crying that you know is going to happen.

What about trying a Rock n Play with a sleep sack? Also warmth is very soothing for babies. If the child is wrapped snuggly and is warm enough things might go well. If not...well be upfront about it being a trial period.

Maybe she should stick with nannies though.
02-13-2019 11:06 AM
Cat Herder I'd pass.

Mom is telling you what kind of parent she is. Permissive parenting breeds learned helplessness and ongoing drama in group care. They do better as SAHM's.

No thanks.

I can work well with the other 3 types. I work to guide them all to authoritative before the kid makes it to school, admittedly, as that is my overall goal for the families I enroll.
02-13-2019 09:46 AM
Baby Beluga I think I would pass on this family. 11 months of poor sleep habits is going to take a very long time to undo and that is not something I would want to participate in.

I have one here now who will only sleep about an hour during nap. Thankfully she is fine and not disruptive the remainder of rest period. But mom makes comments on how short DCK sleeps here but how long DCK will sleep at home....if mom is sleeping next to her. I finally told mom since DCK is used to sleeping next to a warm body at home that may be contributing to her lack of sleep here.
02-13-2019 09:32 AM
LittleExplorers Be honest. Your child will need to learn to sleep in a pack and play. The best way to help little one do so is to put her in a crib or pack and play at home. In the meantime, your child will cry.

Honestly, that would be a reason to say they are not a good fit. There has been 11 months of poor sleep habits in place. No thanks.
02-13-2019 09:31 AM
Snowmom Oh gosh. This mom is lucky her child hasn't died of positional asphyxia.
If it were me, I would tell her that as a licensed provider, I am required to follow safe sleep practices. I would forward her information explaining safe sleep practices too!
Then if I still wanted to take the chance on enrolling this child, I would require mom to sleep baby on her back at home for a minimum of two weeks before enrollment to help baby adapt into normal routine.

***Another reason I don't enroll infants anymore!***
02-13-2019 09:31 AM
HL0605 I agree. I've done this for ten years, and have had a lucky run in the past few years to either have kids with parents who prioritize good sleep habits, or little ones who start at 3-4 months and I can make sure they learn good nap habits. The idea of an eleven month old who is only rocked or strolled to sleep seems like a recipe for trouble. This will be made worse by the fact that I only have one day a week available now, and won't have more days for her until summer.

I do have a trial period of two weeks. I have never called after a certain amount of crying for pick up, though. Have you done this in the past? How long is reasonable?

This person is a friend of a current client and while I wasn't looking to fill any spot just yet, they have been very interested and eager to start attending. The only concern I have is the sleeping, but it's kind of a big concern and I want to make sure I do a good job explaining the importance of nap time peace, but in a graceful way. A policy that is clear is probably the best way to do that.
02-13-2019 09:19 AM
Tin Blues Honestly, that’s a huge red flag. The older I get the less patience I have for listening to crying. I’m looking for parents that set their kids up for success at daycare. It’s possible she could make the adjustment but it is also possible that it will be highly stressful.

Are you prepared to call for pickup after a certain amount of crying? Do you have a trial period and are willing to terminate if necessary?
02-13-2019 08:15 AM
HL0605 I had an interview last night where the mom asked how I would handle the fact that her 11 month old daughter only naps in a stroller. I was dumbfounded and just kind of explained how I couldn't do that here, and that she would need to nap in a pack n play at my house. The mom was convinced that she wouldn't do that, and asked if I could hold her at nap. I explained that I would help comfort her child as much as possible, but that no, I couldn't hold her child for two hours while she slept as I have 5 other children to care for, and nap time is my time to catch up on things and have a break.

She is interested in starting soon, but I feel I need to better clarify with mom that I will need her child to nap in a pack n play while here, and that she may do a lot of crying while she learns to do this as she has never developed this skill at home or with the current nanny. How frank would you be in your explanation?

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