Tricked? Into Taking Special Needs Kiddo
Help! I haven’t been doing this for very long and so I’m not I made a mistake that I’m sure you’ll all shake your heads at but now I don’t know what to do. I had a single parent interview with me and say she was desperate to find care immediately because her family could no longer help out. At the interview she didn’t bring her kiddo with her (2years old) because she was meeting with me on her lunch break. Everything seemed fine during the interview but toward the end she mentioned that the kiddo has a “little trouble with walking “ and she’s hoping that being around others her age will help her get better at it. On her first day here parent arrives and it’s immediately clear to me that this child has severe physical and cognitive delays!!! I have given it my best chance but I’m just not equipped to care for this kiddo and to make matters worse parent is in major denial and says that child’s pediatrician isn’t concerned and so she doesn’t feel she needs to be either. I’d like to just be done with it all but I’m not sure what to say to parent or even how to bring up the subject of letting the kiddo go. The last time I tried I had done a lot of research and gathered names and numbers of all kinds of supportive people and places in our community for her to utilize and she just cried and said she’d look into it but then I never heard a word about it again from her! She did nothing. Also I worry because if I make this woman angry and she leaves on bad terms she’s good friends with another one of the families in my care. :eek:What if they leave too??
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That's one reason why most here have trial periods. A trial period is an open time frame where the provider or the parent can decide it's not the best fit and just move on. A special needs child needs either a nanny, or a provider trained or with experience working with them.
If you don't have a trial period in your agreement, you just have to let the parent know that the child doesn't fit your program well. If you've been watching this child for a little while, could you handle another 2 weeks to give the parent time to find someone else? |
This is why I don't don't don't don't do interviews without the child. I don't care if you're pregnant, come back when the baby is born. Honestly, if I were you, I'd fill two spots and them term both families. Trust your gut if you think she's going to make trouble with her friends.
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I agree, kiddo definitely needs something more one on one than I can give. I never even thought of doing something like a trial run with families. I’ve never had a family interview without their kids with them so that should have been a red flag for me. Learning as I go, I guess.
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I would terminate care now BEFORE the mom accepts that her child may have special needs. If she accepts that the child is special needs, it will be much harder to terminate care due to discrimination laws etc.
I would just tell her that you are no longer able to provide care for her child after X date. If you want to give a reason you could just say you are not able to provide the care and attention she needs and leave it at that. You aren't required to expand on your reason. You aren't even required to give a reason at all. |
Originally Posted by Blackcat31: |
Originally Posted by Blackcat31: I also wouldn't worry about the other family. I have MANY friends/families enrolled and termed several people who referred others. The other party never left care. Keep it professional "Child is no longer in attendance." don't get into details. Most likely the other parents are already aware. |
Special needs child
Originally Posted by Blackcat31: |
Ahhh, and now I see where Tom's blog post came from. likethis
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Originally Posted by TomCopeland: |
Originally Posted by carriewitmer: |
Ada
Originally Posted by Rockgirl: |
Originally Posted by TomCopeland: |
I was in a training for ADA and I was told that I could not ask during an interview (before they became a client) if their child had a disability ... and if I did that the parent was legally not required to answer. Also that once they became a client I still could not ask them about any disabilities or medical conditions ... that I could only ask if there were any special needs or modifications that their child required (sort of like only being able to ask if a service dog is required because of a disability and what work or task has the dog been trained to perform but not being able to ask specifically what disability the person has).
I was told that I could encourage a family to share medical information with me if they wanted to if I was doing so in order to provide better care for their child but that they could refuse to share the info and I could not specifically use the denial to refuse to sign them up or to terminate care. LOTS of parents with special needs DON'T share their children's conditions BECAUSE lots of providers refuse to sign them up just because of their condition. In other words, they have no choice ... otherwise, they would be discriminated against. It reminds me of the daycare providers that don't outright tell their landlords that they will be providing daycare services in the rental home because many landlords outright will deny renting to them only because they do not want to rent to someone doing daycare. They don't notify the landlords until after they have signed the leasing contract so that they won't be discriminated against. (I'm speaking of states like CA where family daycare is a protected class and has special protection like not being able to be denied to run a family childcare home from a rented home/apartment but landlords discriminate anyway. I know in some states there is no protection for FFC providers). It might "sound shady" but when people are discriminated against they're basically left with no other choice. |
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa: I understand what you are saying and the logic in thinking but as a parent (not a provider) I just couldn't imagine lying (even by omission) simply to get my child enrolled somewhere. :confused: It might work in a million other situations but I just wouldn't feel as if my child was receiving truly authentic and genuine care if my provider felt betrayed, lied to or mis-led. It might not be such a big deal in regards to other legal constraints (ie: not wanting to have a public restroom or something less personal) but I just don't see ANY provider I've ever known (virtually or IRL) that wouldn't act differently towards a parent that "tricked" them in some way....kwim? I also understand that parents of special needs kids want their children cared for just like every other child but as much as they want that, it doesn't change the fact that their child isn't just like every other child. My child has/had special needs (I say 'had' only because they aren't a child any longer) and I couldn't imagine my child being cared for in an environment not aware of, not trained or not wanting to deal with my child's unique need. |
Originally Posted by Blackcat31: |
Originally Posted by Blackcat31: And I'm not even talking about the people that lie about it, I'm talking about the people that don't divulge the information until after they have been accepted for fear of being dismissed outright without even a chance. |
Originally Posted by TomCopeland: Does a trial period give a provider a way out? Contract says: "2 week trial period, during which, the parent or provider can cancel at any time" Would ADA say that's not allowed? Doesn't matter to me since I'm in Canada and even considering going the route of special needs care, but I'm sure many US providers would be curious about that. |
Originally Posted by Mike: @Tom~ how should providers handle lying or with holding parents and what are the legal options? |
Originally Posted by Mike: When Can You Terminate a Child With a Disability? Can a family child care provider terminate a child if she learns about the child’s disability after the child is enrolled? Let’s say you interview a parent who doesn’t tell you that her daughter has significant difficulty walking as well as major cognitive learning delays. You learn about this when the child shows up for her first day. When you talk to the parent about the child’s condition, the parent is in denial. “My child doesn’t have a disability. She just needs to be around other children to improve.” Americans with Disabilities Act All family child care providers must comply with the Americans with Disabilities Act. This Act says you cannot discriminate against children with disabilities. It doesn’t mean that you have to care for all children who have a disability. Instead, you must do what is reasonable to accommodate a child with a disability. A disability is a physical or mental impairment that limits one or more major life activities: learning, walking, talking, seeing, or hearing. Now What? At this point you cannot terminate the child, even if you believe you are not capable of caring for her. You cannot terminate even during a two-week trial period that you and the parent agreed to, allowing either party to terminate at the end of the day. The ADA law says you must treat the child as having a disability if you have reason to believe the child is disabled. In this case, it’s obvious to you that the child does have a disability. So, the fact that the mother says her child does not have a disability doesn’t mean you can terminate her without following the ADA guidelines. When you believe a child has a disability, you must find out what it would take to provide appropriate care for the child. If what it would take to do this will create a significant difficulty or expense, you don’t have to provide care and you can terminate the child. Therefore, ask the parent to speak with the child’s doctor to find out what she needs. Or, ask the parent for permission to speak with a local nurse or school that could evaluate the child and give you advice. If you receive professional advice that says you can provide care by following certain procedures with the child that don’t create a significant difficulty or expense, then you must continue to provide care. But, for example, if you are told you must hire someone that will cost $400 a week to assist you, that’s a significant expense. In that case, you can tell the mother that you can’t afford it and you should terminate. If the mother offers to pay the $400, you must continue to provide care. If the mother does not give you permission to talk to anyone about her child, then you can terminate care if you believe that the child could not receive the appropriate care she deserves while in your program. Before and After Enrollment Before you enroll a child, you cannot ask questions of a parent about any disabilities a child may have. After you enroll the child you can ask, “Does your child have any condition(s) that I should be aware or any special measures I need to take for your child?” Then you can ask for help and explore what the child needs. The vast majority of family child care providers who care for children with mild disabilities do so without much trouble. If you need help in dealing with more severe disabilities, contact your local Child Care Resource and Referral Agency for help. Tom Copeland – http://tomcopelandblog.com/when-can-...h-a-disability littlefriends the suggestion of contacting your local child care and resource and referral agency is a good one. Maybe they can give you a contact of another family child care provider who has been in a similar situation that can give you recommendations. Maybe asking the mom for a note from the child's pediatrician (not a nurse) saying that the child does not require any special accommodations??? (in case the mom is just saying that she's been to a DR and really has not). Sounds like if she's unwilling to cooperate or is in denial then youcan use that as your out?? |
Originally Posted by TomCopeland: Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa: I don't even do daycare yet and I know it's not a high income business. Many of you care for several children just to make a decent income. If $100/week wasn't considered significant, that's $430/month lost which is a good chunk of money. What if you have 6 children and 3 of them each cost $80/m? That's just over $1000/m and that would shut down any home daycares. I think it's nice that ADA wants to protect the children, and many of you know me enough to know that I really mean that, but a business is for one purpose, to make money to live off of. I think that in any business, if a client was going to cost you money, it should be your choice if you want that client and/or want to charge them extra to cover the cost. That's not the case though, in other businesses as well. Many legitimate businesses have actually failed due to government regulations. The problem is, there are 2 ways to look at it. From the business side, main priority is to make money, so regulations that force a business to do something that could even make them lose money are just plain dumb. From the other side, if the regulations didn't exist, a lot of people would never be able to get services, or even products, they need. Just one of the many negatives of self-employment, and why not everyone can do it. Running a business is very intense work, and not the same as a simple 9-5 job. Many businesses don't even make minumum wage. |
Originally Posted by Mike: Another example is my case ... I had a family contact me for services and their 3-year-old used a wheelchair. The only restroom that is downstairs is not wide enough for a wheelchair to go through and I would have had to spend thousands of dollars to widen the doorway for her wheelchair to fit through. That would be an excessive amount to pay and I could not afford that. The parents reached out to their doctor and got a MUCH smaller wheelchair (tiny actually) and then there was no issue for me. So it seems as it would all be based on a case by case basis and whether other alternatives are options. |
Okay so what if this mom is also consistently late picking up? Several times a week she will be 5-15, 20 min after my closing time and give no explanation or even say she’s sorry and a few times has gotten stuck at work and “forgotten” to let me know. Those nights were 30-40 min after I closed. What if I terminated on those grounds, never even mentioning anything to do with disability?
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Originally Posted by littlefriends: |
“Provider reserves the right to terminate care without notice in the event that behavior problems occur and are not being addressed in a timely manner, payments are not being made when due, or providers business hours are not being respected.”
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Originally Posted by littlefriends: |
Originally Posted by littlefriends: Do you do sign-in sheets? Maybe it's time you did if not. And when she walks in YOU write in the time she walked in and have her sign out. This way you have the time and her signature as proof. I know that being late 30-40 mins without arranging it with me first id definitely ground for termination if I have already talked to her before. |
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa: We have bills like anyone else so to add something on top of us that we are maybe not able to afford-even if it seems small might cause us financial hardships. The other option would be to raise rates to cover something like this. |
Originally Posted by Country Kids: Like for me even if I was making the higher amount (and I do charge $200/mo) paying $400 a month would be hard. That's my car payment. |
I would absolutely terminate for being late. It is in your contract, hopefully you have some sort of proof and boom she is gone!
I would not trust anyone who did not bring their child for an interview. She came during her lunch break so she could avoid you seeing her child. What kind of mother does that or puts their child where they are not wanted or able to be taken care of effectively. If she has issues finding care she needs to go to the government for assistance. My nephew was diagnosed with cerebral palsy and my brother gets money to pay for a live out nanny. His needs are too great for a home daycare with one person. I had a woman show up to an interview without her children and I never contacted her after that. Huge red flag and she mentioned in passing her child was a preemie with a breathing issue...it all made sense why she came without her kids. |
Originally Posted by Ariana: |
Originally Posted by Blackcat31: |
Discrimination?
Originally Posted by littlefriends: |
Originally Posted by TomCopeland: And this is a great reason to enforce our all of our policies from the get-go. So often, the triggering reason we want to terminate a family is just part of a whole host of other issues that we should already have terminated for. If this were a parent who had her act together, she wouldn't have brought her child, who needs more specialized care, to you in the first place. |
Originally Posted by Pestle: |
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa: |
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa: |
Originally Posted by hwichlaz: ADHD isn't taken as seriously as someone who has a physical or other disability so it has been an uphill battle for us. There are lots of options and services available to kids with disabilities/special needs, if you have the right diagnosis. In any case we've struggled but grew and she's 13 now, still in therapies but at least not on medication anymore. And she hasn't tried to kill me in 3 years so that's a plus :lol: |
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa: |
Originally Posted by hwichlaz: |
Originally Posted by Ariana: |
Originally Posted by hwichlaz: |
Originally Posted by TomCopeland: |
Originally Posted by littlefriends: |
Tom, would the OP be in the clear if they tried to get this client to drop out by charging every family by the minute for late pick ups? And refusing to accept drop offs if there are outstanding late fees?
If they have had no other families with consistently late pick ups, would they be in the clear to terminate care on the spot with the next late pick up? Or just send a notice of termination right now? When I make policy changes based on lessons learned from one challenging family, I apply them to all the families . . . none of whom really mind, since they were more or less in line all along. |
Originally Posted by littlefriends: |
Originally Posted by LysesKids: |
Originally Posted by littlefriends: |
This may seem like a simple, or stupid question......but what if the child has significant issues and you are just plain scared of caring for them? Do you HAVE to care for a child even if it makes you a nervous wreck to do so? I know these laws are there for a reason, I'm just kind of confused I guess. If a provider is nervous of taking care of a special needs child, but you can't discriminate, do you just have no choice?
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Originally Posted by littlefriends: I dealt with a family that would put the same time every day (example pick up for them was by 5, every day they wrote 5 even when they arrived at 455 or 450......) So when they came late and the box was highlghted, they stopped and looked at the clock. |
Originally Posted by 284878: |
Originally Posted by 284878: I also use a highlighter when they forget to sign in. |
Originally Posted by 284878: Once their pick up time arrives and I see they are late, I take the clipboard with the regular sign in/out sheet and replace it with the "late" sign in/out which is printed in red,. |
Originally Posted by Blackcat31: |
Originally Posted by Pestle: |
Originally Posted by LysesKids: I prefer the highlight because of this and the way my sign in sheet is set up it wouldn't work to switch it out with out changing the format. |
Originally Posted by Lovisa: |
Originally Posted by 284878: |
Originally Posted by Pestle: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8_...ew?usp=sharing Originally Posted by littlefriends: As for time accuracy, I tell parents to go by their cell phone clocks....everyone's is the same time ...and parents are rarely without their phones. I don't indicate in anyway someone forgetting to sign in/out. I just remind them at pick up they forgot to sign in and tell them "Hey, Cheryl, you forgot to sign Billy into daycare this morning. You arrived at 8:15 so can you enter the times now please? Thank you!" I know a provider that does all the time entering herself and then just hands the clip board to the parent to sign. That way the provider is the one looking at the actual time. |
Originally Posted by CityGarden: I use separate monthly sign-in sheets for each child so this works better for me. Also I have a keyless entry system and each parent gets their own code that only works during their scheduled daycare hours so if they are 1 minute late they're locked out and have to knock, plus I have nest so they get video recorded walking up and their photo taken when they ring the doorbell. If I forget to highlight their line I'm reminded when they have to knock and I make sure to do that before I answer the door. Good luck trying to argue with me about whether they were late or not :lol::lol:. |
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa: |
Originally Posted by LysesKids: |
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