2.9 Year Old Problem Child Ran Away
I need advice. I've a 2 year 9 month girl in care who is giving my staff and me lots of concerns. First of all this child runs off any chance she can get. She figured out how to open the gate in the yard and runs away. She has never gotten beyond the driveway because my staff is very alert to her behavior. However, Friday she got out when a mom dropped off kids and left the gate open. I had 4 staff in the yard and no one saw her escape. She was gone for 20 mins before I found her in a neighbors yard playing with a dog. I almost had a heart attack. We've NEVER lost a kid. We've never had a kid try to run away. Our playground is awesome and fun but this kid loves to run.
When we told mom she just laughed and told us that she does this at home all the time. Once went in to a neighbors house and was playing in the neighbors kids rooms. No one was home only way they found her was because front door was open. She just didn't seem concerned her kid was missing for 20 mins. We've thought about locking the gate but feel this is unsafe to lock everyone in basically a cage with a padlock. I'm not sure what else to do to assure she never escapes again. Short of just leashing her to a staff member. Also, recently she's started freaking, hysterical every time we change her diaper and have to wipe her bottom. She screams, "owie owie" and it basically takes two of us to hold her down to get poo out. She also won't let us use an ear thermometer to check her temp. She's only been in our care 2 months so we thought things would get better and she would clue into the routine. She's pretty non-verbal and just doesn't listen at all. She runs around the room all day. She never just sits and plays with toys. She's such a sweetie and loves hugs and snuggles. We don't want to give up on her but at what point do you? We've worked on learning the word STOP but she still isn't getting it. I just am afraid she's going to get lose again. |
Originally Posted by Ambrocia: WAY too many risks involved in caring for her and the fact that mom laughs about it.. No way. I simply would not be willing to put that much time and effort into a child when the parent isn't willing to do anything to support or advise you in regards to her child. |
I would term also. WAY to much liability. Mom will not be laughing when she gets out and gets hit by a car, bit by a dog, etc. Mom will be suing you and the state will shut you down. Terminate NOW. The money you are making on her is not worth what it will cost you.
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31: Unfortunately, this child is a huge liability for your business. Please be sure to document, document. I WOULD put a padlock on the gate, though. Parents should come in through the building, not through the gate. It's not a "jail", it's a playground full of toys. As for the "owie, owie", she should be seen by a doctor, perhaps. Maybe she has an infection? I'd insist on a doctor's visit if you do keep her. |
When she was missing for so long, how did you handle it? Did you call 911? Has this been reported to your licensing analyst if you are licensed?
20 minutes is a LONG time to be missing without calling emergency services, IMO. You say Mom laughed it off, but I can almost guarantee that when/if you decide to term services, she won't be laughing anymore and will likely contact the appropriate authorities to report it (licensing or whomever oversees child care services). Best to be one step ahead and self-report it. |
Originally Posted by CoachingForQualityImprovement: |
what i can see that really bothers me is the mothers response.
NO way would I be ok with a parent having that reaction and i would have termed on the spot. I once had a child spit on one of my staff face. Child was 4. I called immediately for pick up an when the dad came, dad thought it was no big deal and dck does it all the time. NO FREAKING WAY! if you and a parent are not on the same page no matter what the issue is, it's never going to work out. Mom should have taken this seriously and it should have been reported to the mother that it is so serious that you have to report it to licensing. The pure fact that the child has this issue is one thing, but the fact that the mom is not on the same page about keeping her child safe while in your care is just the final straw. I would term now before this child hurts herself or brings a friend along with her for one of her disappearing acts. |
I'd definitely term this one. I would also install a latch that is out of children's reach on the gate. It shouldn't be easy enough for a child to operate so quickly that no one notices.
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Originally Posted by Rockgirl: |
I rarely term, but I'm in agreement with the majority here. The biggest red flag for me here is that the parent is not concerned. The parent SHOULD be up in arms about this. Her child was missing for 20 minutes. So much could have happened.
It concerns me a lot that parent was so lax about it. My last parent that was so lax about her "runaway" turned out to be an accomplice. When I worked for a center, I had a parent who was coaching her child to run away from school. The short version of the very sad story is that mom was hoping the child would get injured so she could sue. Her plan was discovered by staff and the mom was turned in to protective services. I would not keep a runner unless parents were concerned and 100% on board with working on it. There is so much risk involved. There are strategies for prevention, and eliminating the behavior. If parents agree to work on it, you can message me for more information. |
Originally Posted by daycare: |
this reminds me of MV's post about her missing child....Oh dear old that is a scary thought.
Maybe OP you should read that so you too can really understand the seriousness of this matter. I am sure you already understand, but this might get you to light that fire to term. Let me find it so I can share with you the thread of another member that had a child go missing from her daycare. |
Originally Posted by daycare: 20 minutes is an insanely LONG TIME to not notice a child is missing. Fix your gate immediately. Not tomorrow, right now. Install a new latch. Get a contact alarm on the gate and all doors. I'm not so sure I'd rush to terminate the child. Yes, she is a liability, but honestly, your staff's failure to notice she was gone and your lack of security is a bigger liability. I'd be inclined to terminare the staff involved as well. :mad: |
I am more concerned with the fact that a child was able to get away and for 20 MINUTES!! That’s ridiculous and a huge fail on the daycare’s part! I just do not quite believe that was the mother’s reaction, however, it very well could’ve been. Most certainly would not have been mine. I would’ve termed myself right then, called licensing, and put a review about it on any site that asks for a review on that daycare. Again, that is just ridiculous! -It is coming off (to me) as if it is being made the parent’s or child’s fault that she ran away, it is 100% the staff’s fault. If a child can get away like that and for that long then OBVIOUSLY no one is watching her as they should be.
There are lots of child proof latches, door knobs, etc out there that can and should be used, for reasons such as this. |
Originally Posted by spedmommy4: |
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia: The fact that she was missing for 20 minutes almost concerned me more. At my center, we're required to do a head count at least every ten minutes when we're outside. Would a child-proof latch be legal in your state? Or what about a combination lock and you could give the code to all your staff and parents? I would also send a letter home and remind parents to make sure they close the gate behind them. |
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia: Moms reaction is meaningless to me. This happened on your watch, mom wasn't there and it wasn't her responsibility. According to your op, you knew she was a runner. The time to have termed was the first few times it happened (even though you caught it right away) and you realized she was a runner. I'm sorry it happened but I agree with Sugar, you need to make changes NOW. |
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia: |
I think MV's post was in the private section, so you probably can't post the link for that conversation. But she may not mind pm'ing and sharing her story
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I always use a latch for the gate into the playyard.Usually there is a whole under the latch .I used a easy to open for adults but hard for children. Accidents can happen so quickly I would not let this child out of sight.An adult should shadow her if you are keeping her.I also had a seperate play space for infants a pen 3 sets wide with a small slide and toys maybe that could be used.
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Sorry I couldn't help but notice that you said you had 4 staff plus yourself, how many kids do you have in your care?
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I agree that I would term due the parent's reaction.
Regardless, if your fence is chain link maybe install a top latch. Something like this. If you want to buy local and the hardware stores don't have them, check with a pool store or a fence company. They should have them. http://www.amazon.com/Residential-Ch.../dp/B0012ZX15S |
The lock I have used is a double end bolt snap.Really simple just hooks onto the handle of both gates. Adults easily can unhook kids not.
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Child that runs
First, sorry that happened. How scary! Second, good job telling parent (cover butt).
Third, refer her for evaluation, obviously underlying issues and she needs 1/1, hopefully family can get subsidy to pay for that. I strongly disagree with the push to terminat. I feel she deserves to be cared for not passed off for challenges. I care for exceptional children and you can put a driveway alarm by gate. It will alert (very loud if someone passes it). Hope you can help this child. |
Originally Posted by Unregistered: |
Originally Posted by Unregistered: |
I agree that the child should not have been able to get away, but with the parent's attitude about it, it almost seems it is an allowed game at home that the child brought to daycare. That is the part where I blame the parent. If in fact the parent laughed it off and stated it happens at home all the time, then the parent is also at fault, because they have been allowing this to happen.
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Originally Posted by Thriftylady: This post really bothers me. Everything from the lack of supervision of a child with a KNOWN history of escape attempts, police NOT being called, (we don't even know if the OP self reported this to licensing), the mom's alleged response, the lack of proper latches, to the OP implying it's the parents fault somehow. We are here to give advice, and my advice is for the center to accept responsibility and make immediate changes in staff and security. Had something serious or even deadly happened to this child, we'd all be wringing our hands and lamenting a tragedy that could have easily been prevented. Personally, I'm making sure head counts are done more often outside, checking my latches and making sure my contact alarms have fresh batteries. |
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia: exactly my thoughts |
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia: And frankly, I'm a little disturbed at the amount of people here who would place the blame on the child/parent and would term the child because of the staff's and the management's negligence. |
Originally Posted by NessaRose: |
Originally Posted by Thriftylady: However, whether the parent was on board with correcting the behavior and responding appropriately or acting the way she did, like it's no big deal, this situation ultimately fell on the staff as a serious mistake. |
I just love how all you feel its okay to reprimand this provider for coming here and asking for help on what to do about this situation before it does get worse and how she should handle things moving forward verses showing her the same support and helpfulness that you all poured out to MarinaVanessa who actually DID lose a child. Talk about a double standard.
OP, i would terminate this child too because if she did figure out how to run off, you'd be crucified by these ladies and not given one ounce of understanding or helpfulness that MarinaVanessa got. Apparently most these ladies are perfect and couldnt imagine things happening under their watch. I totally understand now why some providers cover things up and do some of the things they do. If your own collegues cant help you make changes for the future so that you can have preventative measures in place, which is what i thought you were asking, then we're all in this alone. Im sorry this happened to you and even more sorry that you probably wont be back here. I hope you are able to figure out what to do. |
Originally Posted by Unregistered: The difference between the OP and MV? MarinaVanessa did everything RIGHT when it happened to her. Her dck wasn't a known runner (unlike the OP). When she realized she was missing (ie: off property), she called the police to assist with the search and self reported to licensing (unlike the OP). She didn't blame the parents for something that happened on her watch (unlike the OP). She immediately had a door alarm installed(unlike the OP). She worked out a plan to ensure it never happened again. Basically she "providered up" and behaved like the professional she is and took her lumps. When it happened to MV, she was the one saying "*I* should have done this or that better" rather than pointing fingers and parent blaming. I also want to point out that MV, like most of us, runs her day care herself. According to the OP FOUR staff members were there and had no idea where the child was. Not that it's ever okay to lose a child, but in my mind the reason one has additional staff is so things like bathroom and lunch breaks are covered and kids are never left out of sight. No one is perfect and we all get things wrong at times. But I felt most of the replies here were pretty gently worded with a lot of great advice given. |
Originally Posted by Unregistered: I did not see anyone "crucifying" here. They did call her out a bit; but they also advised her to take corrective action by installing better security, increasing supervision, and possible termination. All these things the other provider did immediately, btw. She also came on here an completely blamed herself; not the child or the parent. In her case, the child (who was 5, not 2) was left in a nearby room while the provider(who worked alone) was attending to personal needs. I would also have to term this child. It's not the child's fault, but she would just be too great a liability for me. |
Originally Posted by Play Care: We also do not know if OP self-reported or not. We don't know if she did or didn't do everything right or wrong, we ONLY know what she told us. We don't know all the details. Just like with MV. We only know what she told us. It's never okay to lose a child. Ever. But I won't point fingers when I don't know the environment, the staff, the provider, the child or anything other than what we are told in a post and I refuse to lambaste a provider for asking for help. I feel it's akin to scolding a drowning person before tossing them a life preserver. There are a few other points I will disagree with but I do agree with the unregistered poster. Losing a child is unacceptable but if no one ever tries to help providers, ESPECIALLY newer, less experienced providers how are they ever going to learn anything? Instead, they are driven off of forum boards that are there to "educate" them and help them brainstorm ideas, tips and tricks in which they can use to prevent things from happening again. Now if the OP said it has happened a couple times before, then I understand but she came here the FIRST time in hopes of finding a solution to her problem. Which I think it a good thing. Well, was a good thing... it's obviously not a resource for her anymore :( I suggested termination and I stand by what I said because if she continues to care for this child WITHOUT the support of the parent and without the tools to move forward then its a tragedy just waiting to happen. |
Originally Posted by Heidi: In my eyes, a child was lost. Period. Comparing the two as in who did what right or wrong is pointless as the OP in this thread never came back to tell us what she did or didn't do. I also don't think that coming here and "blaming" yourself for what happened is an automatic excusal for what did happen. Yet, she got a ton of support. OP didn't get any of that and that makes me sad because we (readers/posters) don't know the whole story. Had she had access to a private area, she may have told a different story. Who knows... Too many missing details and too many double standards in my opinion. |
I said that mom's reaction was meaningless to me, and I stand by that. Not that it didn't happen, but because often parents don't realize that things are a much bigger deal when they happen at day care, KWIM? So mom may have very well laughed it off. I know there have been times doing dc where I've had to say point blank to parents " this is a BIG deal and may well cause me to end providing care!" but until I lay it out, they don't realize it's not normal or a big deal.
I will say that my that the majority of the posts responding to the OP were "with" the OP especially some of the first replies. |
I just quickly went through and read the whole thread.
There were some questions, but I don't really see any bashing or accusations. The OP hasn't come back to update which would be helpful. I don't see any reply (with the exception of some of the unregistered posters) that are really attacking the OP:confused: You're right that we don't know what the OP did, and that would help clarify things. |
Originally Posted by Unregistered: I don't see that as being rude or bashing the OP, I see it as the truth. Mostly the people who are rude or nasty in any way on this board are unregistered. And many of them only come here to start trouble it seems. |
Originally Posted by Thriftylady: Also, from my perspective.....the point she was making was how differently the two situations were handled with the provider that DID actually lose a child for MUCH longer than 20 minutes receiving support, understanding and a much different approach then this OP received. I personally don't think unreg was condoning anyone losing a child. |
I stand firm in my opinion. I'm not bashing anyone, I'm simply saying that the OP and her staff DROPPED THE BALL in a big , serious and potentially life threatening way. When it comes to the safety of children, I see certain things as non negotiable, like providing direct supervision at all times. Its that simple. BC is correct in that we don't really know if the parent laughed it off. As a parent, I certainly wouldn't be laughing, and that's my opinion. Would anyone here laugh it off? Not calling her a "liar", just find it hard to believe. Period.
Go back and look at the title of the post. "problem child ran away". ...... I am sure she is difficult, but the problem was not tbe child, it was failed security. I'm willing to bet tbe op HAS come back and not liked my response and others. Not liking the advice she was given is her problem, not mine. Safety first, supervision at all times, head counts and secured doors and latches. I don't see that as lambasting. I DO see that as advise. And since MV's post was private, I'm pretty sure the unregistered post was from someone who is actually a long time member as well. I'm not going to hide my opinions behind unregistered. Sorry. I try to be as diplomatic as possible, but sometimes, when serious safety breeches are posted, it bothers me to my core. And I will continue to speak up, especially on serious safety issues. I'm not perfect and don't pretend to be, but gosh darn it, safety first. And no, this wouldn't have happened at my center. |
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia: Saying it wouldn't have happened at your center isn't at all helpful as I bet MV thought the same thing. I think that's a pretty bold statement to make and one that "says" to those it has or almost has happened to that they are somehow less than or not good providers. I think those kinds of statements can be very hurtful. I think as veteran providers our first instinct is should be to help and support newish providers before we pass down judgment or opinions. We've all been new at this. We've all learned things the hard way. Some lessons harder than others and some A LOT more important than others but we were still all NEW and unexperienced at one point. Also, if you click on OPs profile you can see she has NOT logged in since 7/27...5 hours after she posted so again, we don't know if she read or didn't read anything beyond that. |
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia: There are many times on this forum that I see advice given and no one pays much attention but then a veteran provider comes along and says the same thing and everyone suddenly takes what "veteran provider" said as the best advice ever..... as if no one else mentioned it at all. |
Originally Posted by Play Care: |
As some of you know, I had a misunderstanding here on the forum last year. I was very much a newbie to the forum, but I was hung out to dry and was made an example of. I had been here all of 4 months and was basically ostracized as a liar and banned from this forum for a week because of a simple "newbie" mistake I made. Yet this woman can LOSE A HUMAN BEING and she's getting pats on the back for comfort? I find that to utterly unbelievable.
Two corrections: this was not the child's first escape attempt. Op said that she had made it as far as the driveway in the past. The driveway where cars drive. Also, the op is no newbie in this business. She never said how long she'd been working with kids. She's new to this forum, but that's it. I wish I would've been given the same consideration as this poster, especially considering that my mistake was trivial compared to hers. So if the veterans are going to offer sage advice and kind words of wisdom to help fix mistakes made by the newbies here, I'm wondering why that doesn't apply to everyone. But I digress.... And sugar and playcare, I'm behind you 100%. This op needs a serious wake up call about the shortcomings at her center, not a gentle pat on the back. She's lucky she wasn't reported and shut down, at least not yet anyway. |
Originally Posted by NessaRose: |
Originally Posted by NessaRose: I did a little looking back BEFORE I jumped to conclusions and saw that yes, she IS new to managing a child care. |
Originally Posted by Blackcat31: Most importantly, my husband and I provide direct supervision. There are always two of us, 100 percent of the time. Sure, I prepare the lunches, we take bathroom breaks, he empties the trash. But nobody leaves a direct supervisory role without the other being aware and all children are accounted for and are within direct eyesight. We are the operators, the owners, the everything, so of course we protect our livelihood by making sure we follow ALL rules concerning direct supervision. Am I saying all this to make some providers who had a close call feel bad? No. Am I saying this because I'm smug I've never "lost" a child? No. Hardly. I say these things in hopes it reaches someone who googles "safety precautions for daycare centers ". I didn't set out to hurt the OP's feelings. I cared about the safety of the child, not about my popularity here. |
Originally Posted by Blackcat31: |
Originally Posted by Blackcat31: |
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia: |
Originally Posted by NessaRose: |
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia: Its not common in my experience and I tend to be hyper aware of the possibility that things can happen no matter how safe I think I am. I am human and therefore dont feel its my right to gurantee something like that. I do the best I can and learn as the years go on and I gain experience, hindsight and knowledge. But I wont guarantee anything 100% other than to give and do my best. Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia: Different perspectives are what make the world go round. I dont take it personal. :) As for posting as unregistered? The same comments above apply. Sugar~ I sincerely do not mean any of my comments as snarky or rude. That is not my intention at all. We all feel strongly about things and I respect your/my/everyone's right to do so. |
Originally Posted by Thriftylady: |
The mother responded like that because she's not surprised. The child almost sounds Autistic from your description...
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Originally Posted by spedmommy4: |
All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:16 AM. |