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nannyde 07-07-2011 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 125381)
My son will be two in september, he has been bitting since before he got teeth. It started by he would give "kisses" and just close down on your cheek. Well when he got teeth these kisses would hurt, so we did everything we could to put a stop to it! I went to work when he was 8 mths old had no problems with him when he was in the infant room. Then when he got to be a year old he was moved up and he would sometimes bit, well then all of a sudden he starting bitting. He would bite at daycare, at home, anywhere and anybody. He bit me many times and I would try many different things telling him "no", time out, popping, bitting him back, and even popped him in his mouth which I hated but it worked. He stop bitting at home and then after that stopped bitting at daycare.

Well then he started back, he starting bitting everything toys, children, and even himself. But he was still not bitting his father or me. At home he was just bitting his toys or himself so I would try to stay on him about not bitting. Well he stopped bitting again.

No just this week he has started back bitting children at school. He bit muliple times daily and even bit a boy in the face. I truly feel horrible for the other parents and children and I dont want them to think that I am not doing my job, becasue he has still not been bitting at home so I haven't been to punish him more harshly then "time out". I have talked to daycare teachers and director and we do have a plan of using a shadow person and when they can't stand by him then they will place him a play pen.

I don't think me son should be expelled and some of the posts hurt my feelings, I understand people's concerned especially if their child is getting bitten. But there are parents who care and daycares that care. I really hope that we can teach him that it is not ok to bite and to use his words. If this new strategy works I'll let you know!

This is my take on this.. but I could be wrong

No judgement here on your parenting... just giving you my take

A bite to the face is going to be the last frontier in biting. Sorry but that's where the line is clearly drawn.

For the provider it comes down to: loose you or loose the other family. Once a bite to the face happens someone is going to leave. It's easier for them to have you leave because there is a good chance there will be another bite to the face on another kid.

Shadowing isn't going to work. The cost of the person to shadow your kid is more than you pay them. Your salary won't cover three hours of a shadow person a day. They have to make money off of you not loose money. They will do it for a bit to show it doesn't work and get the documentation they need to expel him without worry of repercussions from the state or the parents of the kids who get bit.

They are offering that to cover themselves and to protect themselves for what WILL happen in the future. They aren't doing it because they think it will work.. they are following the ONLY thing they KNOW to do that will show they have done everything they CAN DO. That's for the future upset parents, the documentation they need when they expell him, and the State should they are called by you after they term him or the parents after their kid has been bitten.

Gear up for a termination... they are telling you that they are at the last stage right before they do it. It looks like they are trying to help it or solve it but they KNOW it doesn't work. They just know they HAVE to do this one last thing before they expell him. When they report the next bite they will document that they had an adult right next to him.

Being a parent is HARD. Sometimes we have to give up a lot to do the right thing by our kids and our community. It's time to either stay home with him or hire an adult who can care for him with only way older kids or no kids in the house.

I don't know how to stop a child from biting once they have started. I haven't had a bite in seventeen years here. I've only had one bite in my eighteen years of doing child care. I know how to not get it started but I don't know how to stop it once it has started.

All it took was ONE bite in my first year and I knew that couldn't happen again. :eek:

Good luck and if you HAVE to have your kid in care then you need to start interviewing. Make sure you tell them about the bite BEFORE you go to interview. Weed out the ones that can't manage it.

Christian Mother 07-07-2011 07:50 PM

Nan has great advise!! Love it!!

What I would do is inform your work that there might be a week where your going to have to leave early a couple times. They may not care about your personal issues but it's nice to at least give them a heads up and tell your daycare that they need to call you the moment a bit accures. That way you can deal with it on your own or dad for that matter. I used to work at a Christian School and that was the protocol in cases of biting. If your child isn't biting at home anymore it's bc he understands the consequences at home. He doesn't understand that at daycare. As soon as you walk in that door let the teacher bring the child that got bit and your child and then YOU need to address it with him w/the child that got bit. Others may not like this but you can take him out of the class room and to the bathroom where you spank him or you smack his hand or smack his mouth. Which ever works for you. With my son when he went through the biting faze he got suspended for daycare for 3 days and my husband picked him up from there right away at home my husband bit his arm. Not hard but enough pressure to understand that yes..that does hurt doesn't it. We never had another bit after that!! So he understood that biting hurts. Seems like since you dealt with it at home maybe taking the same steps you have at home need to be applied at daycare. :) Good luck!!

rhymia1 07-08-2011 04:12 AM

I guess I donít understand the problem with shadowing? When a child in my care needs to be shadowed, that means they come with me, and help me do all the things I need to do. If they can't come with me (if I'm assisting another child in with toileting, etc.) they are in the high chair or pack and play with activity/toys. It doesn't disrupt *my* day at all. Admittedly I've only had a few random incidences and not serial biters. But kids in my care quickly learn that being with Ms. K all day is boring:lol:

And what if the biter is the provider's own child (in the case of home care?) you can't usually terminate your own child...
To be clear I'm talking about age appropriate toddler biting, because if it were not age appropriate (older children biting) then I would terminate.

nannyde 07-08-2011 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhymia1 (Post 125454)
I guess I donít understand the problem with shadowing? When a child in my care needs to be shadowed, that means they come with me, and help me do all the things I need to do. If they can't come with me (if I'm assisting another child in with toileting, etc.) they are in the high chair or pack and play with activity/toys. It doesn't disrupt *my* day at all. Admittedly I've only had a few random incidences and not serial biters. But kids in my care quickly learn that being with Ms. K all day is boring:lol:

And what if the biter is the provider's own child (in the case of home care?) you can't usually terminate your own child...
To be clear I'm talking about age appropriate toddler biting, because if it were not age appropriate (older children biting) then I would terminate.

It's too costly and finding staff willing to do all their other duties and keep a one year old next to them for weeks on end is very unrealistic.

It's good in theory but it doesn't really work in real life. Having an adult follow a one year old around is expensive. Having a one year old follow an adult around is deveolpmentally inapropriate for that child. No child that age should be following an adult doing foundational care for a group of children. He shouldn't be going with her the thirty times she has to wash her hands... the twenty times she changes diapers... the sixty times she has to GO to redirect a child off of another kid or off of inapropriate toys play... the four times she has to go to the phone... the three times she cleans the table... the two times she sets up lunch.... and on and on and on

It's just not appropriate for the kid to have to follow around an adult. Even if they did it for three weeks... a month... it doesn't give any indication that the day he's allowed to not be within feet of the adult or having an adult litterally with eyes on him every second that he's not going to lash out and bite someone on the face.

Group care should never mean that an adult has to have their visual directly on one kid all day for any length of time. The idea of group care is that it is SHARED attention. Either way of shadowing puts an undo burden on the staff and is not funded with regular tuition. It defies the premise of group care.

We are within a few feet of the kids at all time when they are playing but we do NOT have an adult set of eyes on any one kid all day long. That's just too costly. The adult has to use all of their senses to care for a group of kids. There are many many times a day when each individual child is being supervised by auditory supervision and proximity but not direct visual supervision. (For example... when we are changing a diaper... we are looking at the business end of the kid being changed... At that time the other kids are close but we don't have our EYES on them. During meals we are bringing each kid to the table... bibbing them... scooting them into the table... and giving them their grub. When we are doing each step of that we have our yes on THAT kid as we perform each one of those parts of the task. It may be two seconds here.. five seconds there.. .. twenty seconds here... but that's ALL it takes for a face bite. It happens in a couple of seconds.)

I personally would not pay for shadowing. IME it's just something TO DO in the process of terming a kid, satisfying the bitee parents, and the State. Not saying it NEVER works... but for the most part it's just treading water till the Center can prove without a reasonable doubt that they can't safely have the biter on site.

As long as the parents of the bitee will allow their kid to get bit it will work out. Once the money from those parents are at risk the shadowing goes into full affect as the first step of out the door.

rhymia1 07-08-2011 06:34 AM

Quote:

Group care should never mean that an adult has to have their visual directly on one kid all day for any length of time. The idea of group care is that it is SHARED attention.
Ah, I see. My state regs actually *require* that I have visual contact with *all* my children at *all* times. Because this is how it's always been, I make it happen.

Quote:

Having a one year old follow an adult around is deveolpmentally inapropriate for that child. No child that age should be following an adult doing foundational care for a group of children. He shouldn't be going with her the thirty times she has to wash her hands... the twenty times she changes diapers... the sixty times she has to GO to redirect a child off of another kid or off of inapropriate toys play... the four times she has to go to the phone... the three times she cleans the table... the two times she sets up lunch.... and on and on and on
As for not being developmentally appropriate for a child to be with a provider, I respectfully disagree. Sometimes that little bit of "extra" attention is just what the child needs. In addition, I do think that children *should* help with daily tasks - my kids clean their own plates, assist with cleaning up after activities, water plants etc. This isn't punitive, but part of being in a family. I am a child care provider, not the maid. And I know my clients would much rather their child be with me helping me out, than biting another child.

But again, I'm thinking of the random times this has happened here. If it became a constant issue, wasn't age appropriate, etc. then I might have a different thought.

nannyde 07-08-2011 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhymia1 (Post 125475)
Ah, I see. My state regs actually *require* that I have visual contact with *all* my children at *all* times. Because this is how it's always been, I make it happen.

No you don't.

It's physically impossible. There's no possible way you could do tasks that require visual percision to safely do it AND look at EACH of the other kids at the same time.

The visual diversion may be three seconds... fifteen seconds... seven seconds... but that's how long it takes a kid to bite another kids face.

I was VERY specific on what I meant

For example... when we are changing a diaper... we are looking at the business end of the kid being changed... At that time the other kids are close but we don't have our EYES on them. During meals we are bringing each kid to the table... bibbing them... scooting them into the table... and giving them their grub. When we are doing each step of that we have our yes on THAT kid as we perform each one of those parts of the task. It may be two seconds here.. five seconds there.. .. twenty seconds here... but that's ALL it takes for a face bite. It happens in a couple of seconds

There is a difference between having children within your visual FIELD and having visual contac each child with all kids all the time.

You are sitting in a room with a lot of experienced providers. We all know that what you are saying is litterally impossible. ;)

Country Kids 07-08-2011 07:52 AM

Sorry Nan but I'm one that with my set up all the children are in my visual contact at all times. We come to the table at the same time, go outside at the same time, have it set up so I face the children during diaper changing, etc. I did have a bite happen a couple of months ago and the funny thing is it happened as we were doing an activity and I saw the child do it! Last time it happened to because the child realized that I can see everything they do. They were very shocked when right as they were doing it I said "No biting" and removed them to be right by me.

nannyde 07-08-2011 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Country Kids (Post 125502)
Sorry Nan but I'm one that with my set up all the children are in my visual contact at all times. We come to the table at the same time, go outside at the same time, have it set up so I face the children during diaper changing, etc. I did have a bite happen a couple of months ago and the funny thing is it happened as we were doing an activity and I saw the child do it! Last time it happened to because the child realized that I can see everything they do. They were very shocked when right as they were doing it I said "No biting" and removed them to be right by me.

I'm not saying you can't be within a visual field of the kids. What I'm saying is there are visually specific care related tasks that need your eyes to be ON a child. It is impossible to care for kids and be able to see all of them at the same time... even if they are standing RIGHT next to you when you are focusing in on one part of the child's body.

It matters because it puts providers into the position where they are held accountable for a level of visual supervision that is impossible physically to do if you have more than one kid.

This issue comes up when there is a bite and it comes up a lot in the "solution" of shadowing.

Blackcat31 07-08-2011 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Country Kids (Post 125502)
Sorry Nan but I'm one that with my set up all the children are in my visual contact at all times. We come to the table at the same time, go outside at the same time, have it set up so I face the children during diaper changing, etc. I did have a bite happen a couple of months ago and the funny thing is it happened as we were doing an activity and I saw the child do it! Last time it happened to because the child realized that I can see everything they do. They were very shocked when right as they were doing it I said "No biting" and removed them to be right by me.

I agree with you but I also agree with what Nan is saying, as you are typing today on this forum....you are not making direct visual contact with the kiddos you have in care. They may be in your visual field but you are focused on something else......

Country Kids 07-08-2011 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackcat31 (Post 125514)
I agree with you but I also agree with what Nan is saying, as you are typing today on this forum....you are not making direct visual contact with the kiddos you have in care. They may be in your visual field but you are focused on something else......

Only had one and he was sitting by me playing quietly. I'm on here when the I only have one, they are sleeping, or done for the day.

Kaddidle Care 07-08-2011 09:17 AM

I had a biter - my own son. 1st time he was playing with another little boy who was extremely rough and my son didn't know how to handle it. He was about 2 1/2 and he bit his arm. He was removed from play and reprimanded by me. I was shocked. :eek:

2nd time he was 3 and playing with his 18 month old cousin. They struggled over a toy, she fell on top of him and he bit her cheek. It was horrible and I felt like the worst mother on earth. Again - he was reprimanded and removed from play. (Thankfully she didn't scar)

3rd time he was in a friend's pool and his friend mocked him and pointed her finger at him and he bit it. At this point he was around 4/5 and I was fit to be tied. I called him over, grabbed his hand and bit his finger. A bigger look of shock you will never see on a child. He was ousted from the pool and brought home and I wouldn't let him forget what he did. I did not draw blood but it was enough to let him know it HURT.

Thankfully it was the last time he ever did it.

While I know you should never bite a child, I'm telling you it's what worked with mine.

We cannot do this in Childcare but we can send them home. Our center has a 3 strike policy on biting. 3 bites = immediate termination.

nannyde 07-08-2011 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaddidle Care (Post 125527)
Our center has a 3 strike policy on biting. 3 bites = immediate termination.

The good news about that is that it is very clear and unemotional. Parents know upfront that it's not personal. If their kid bites they just can't be THERE. They have to find care for him where he can bite or care where there isn't anyone around to bite.

That kind of policy is WAY better than a big process where the staff has to prove they are doing EVERYTHING they can do to stop it. It puts it directly on the facts... that's it. Three bites you are audi

Blackcat31 07-08-2011 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Country Kids (Post 125520)
Only had one and he was sitting by me playing quietly. I'm on here when the I only have one, they are sleeping, or done for the day.

;) understood.

JenNJ 07-08-2011 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nannyde (Post 125408)
Gear up for a termination... they are telling you that they are at the last stage right before they do it. It looks like they are trying to help it or solve it but they KNOW it doesn't work. They just know they HAVE to do this one last thing before they expel him. When they report the next bite they will document that they had an adult right next to him.

Nan is correct. Shadowing is the last step before termination. In your case, you need to start looking for a nanny NOW. Today. Group care is not going to work with a biter (specifically a FACE biter).

Typically bites happen on the back, shoulders, and arms of other children and usually in response to a frustration and a lack of verbal skills. Face biting is uncommon and in my experience more of a power move. Your child is experimenting with cause and effect. "When I bite my playmate, he screams, the teachers run around, I get attention, and I am in control." Everything in the room stops and all the attention is on your child. Every single time he bites, this is what will happen. In my opinion, bites like this come without warning and there is nothing that can be done to stop it in a group care setting.

Your child needs one on one care for an extended time to stop this behavior. Whether you or your partner stay home full time to deal with it or you hire a nanny to follow your methods, one on one care is the only thing that will stop it at this point.

rhymia1 07-08-2011 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nannyde (Post 125498)
No you don't.

It's physically impossible. There's no possible way you could do tasks that require visual percision to safely do it AND look at EACH of the other kids at the same time.

The visual diversion may be three seconds... fifteen seconds... seven seconds... but that's how long it takes a kid to bite another kids face.

I was VERY specific on what I meant

For example... when we are changing a diaper... we are looking at the business end of the kid being changed... At that time the other kids are close but we don't have our EYES on them. During meals we are bringing each kid to the table... bibbing them... scooting them into the table... and giving them their grub. When we are doing each step of that we have our yes on THAT kid as we perform each one of those parts of the task. It may be two seconds here.. five seconds there.. .. twenty seconds here... but that's ALL it takes for a face bite. It happens in a couple of seconds

There is a difference between having children within your visual FIELD and having visual contac each child with all kids all the time.

You are sitting in a room with a lot of experienced providers. We all know that what you are saying is litterally impossible. ;)

It's not. Like another poster, my set up is so that I can see the children. Areas that I can't see are gated off. I use mirrors for corners (the kids think I'm G*d:lol: ) When there is going to be a situation where I don't have direct visual contact the children (I need to use the bathroom) the children need to be set up at the table (right outside the bathroom) a child who has bitten would be in the high chair.
I am one who does't use the computer at all when children are awake/here, so that's not an issue.
And I do agree that if it's something more than a week or so of shadowing can help, the child needs to go elsewhere.
But as to the other, I'll agree to disagree at this point, because it's a gorgeous day here and I don't have any kids here:Sunny:

nannyde 07-08-2011 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhymia1 (Post 125581)
It's not. Like another poster, my set up is so that I can see the children. Areas that I can't see are gated off. I use mirrors for corners (the kids think I'm G*d:lol: ) When there is going to be a situation where I don't have direct visual contact the children (I need to use the bathroom) the children need to be set up at the table (right outside the bathroom) a child who has bitten would be in the high chair.
I am one who does't use the computer at all when children are awake/here, so that's not an issue.
And I do agree that if it's something more than a week or so of shadowing can help, the child needs to go elsewhere.
But as to the other, I'll agree to disagree at this point, because it's a gorgeous day here and I don't have any kids here:Sunny:

Nah it's impossible. When you are caring for birth to five there are many times a day when in order to keep them SAFE and provide proper care you HAVE to visually and selectively ONLY look at what you and they are doing.

When you are feeding a newborn you HAVE to focus directly on their lips and cheeks when you are offering them the bottle. You have to make sure that the nipple is properly placed and grasped. You have to make sure the milk is going in and not coming out on the sides. You have to check flow of the fluid... You have to check to make sure they are breathing in between sucks. You have to make sure they are swallowing at a pace equal to the sucking. You have to have groupings of seconds to JUST look DOWNWARD and see what that baby is doing. It wouldn't be safe to do that head up.

When you are cleaning a diaper blow out you HAVE to look directly at the child's body. You have to carefully remove the onesie and the shirt over the head to make sure you aren't getting fecal matter in their eyes or their hair. You have to look DIRECTLY at the child and the child's body in order to do it safely and keep the mess contained.

When you are cleaning them up after the clothes are removed you HAVE to scan them to make sure there is no residue of fecal matter on any part of their body.

When you are applying butt cream you HAVE to look directly at all the creases and areas that are affected with the rash. You HAVE to spread the cream evenly.

Hundreds and hundreds of times a day in the care of kids you are diverting your eyes to ONE child to provide what they need. Within those seconds of direct visual care that is required to care for them properly... you will not have direct visual contact with the other children... be in one more or six more.

There's no set up in the world that nets constant direct visual every single second or small gouping of seconds supervision of all of the kids when there is more than one kid with one adult.

It's impossible. It may be that it seems mincing words but it's within those few seconds that differentiate GROUP care from individual care.

Cat Herder 07-08-2011 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhymia1 (Post 125581)
It's not. Like another poster, my set up is so that I can see the children. Areas that I can't see are gated off. I use mirrors for corners (the kids think I'm G*d:lol: ) When there is going to be a situation where I don't have direct visual contact the children (I need to use the bathroom) the children need to be set up at the table (right outside the bathroom) a child who has bitten would be in the high chair.
I am one who doesn't use the computer at all when children are awake/here, so that's not an issue.
And I do agree that if it's something more than a week or so of shadowing can help, the child needs to go elsewhere.
But as to the other, I'll agree to disagree at this point, because it's a gorgeous day here and I don't have any kids here:Sunny:

So during diaper changes, food prep and serving, wiping another child's face, tossing out a dirty Kleenex, picking up a broken toy, and the other MILLION times when you are looking directly at another child or object you would keep this biter confined to a high chair?

It is possible for you to 100% of the time see what each child is doing even while directly focusing on another child's needs??

IMHO, It is not possible. I am sorry. I can't believe anyone would believe that.

I am in the same room at all times, my kids even have their own playrooms...within a great room. Occassionally things happen. It is a fact of life.

We are not super human...We stack the odds in our favor as much as possible and deal with issues as they present themselves. Biting is no different.

nannyde 07-08-2011 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catherder (Post 125641)
IMHO, It is not possible. I am sorry. I can't believe anyone would believe that.

I have a full time staff assistant and I couldn't manage that. Even with two of us here it's gonna happen.

It's not even safe. I wouldn't want my child in the care of someone who wouldn't focus ON him directly when he needed immediate and precise care.

Cat Herder 07-08-2011 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nannyde (Post 125646)
I have a full time staff assistant and I couldn't manage that. Even with two of us here it's gonna happen.

It is also unfair to new providers who read that because they will feel like failures ALL THE TIME to think they are the ONE childcare provider in the world that cannot do this. :(

Not even mentioning the Mothers at home with a few small childen. :eek: I can't imagine the pressure of that.....;)

Nobody is superhuman. We TRY really hard, though....:ouch:

Unregistered 07-09-2011 06:58 PM

I had a 18 month old bite my own son last year for almost 6 months. I was stupid and put up with it b/c I was new to daycare, thought it was typical toddler behavior and the mom swore it never happened to anyone but my son. She always blamed me and said since my son got more attention from me her child bit out of jealousy. I was stupid and put up with it. One day this child bit another child (we didnt know) while we were at an outing. I termed them that day (gave notice so they could make other arrangements) and was never happier when they stopped coming.

I have my teaching lic and lots of experience with kids. I can't say why some kids start biting but in this case there was no fixing it. I tried everything and simply couldnt stop the behavior.

I am still friends with the mom and will allow the kid to come back for back up care. She comes less than 1x a month and now at almost 3 I can say with certainty she hasn't changed one bit. She currently attends a daycare with only school age kids (who are obviously quick enough to get away from her). She has no play skills, pushes, hits, whines, cries etc when she doesn't get her way. I don't think I would have survived the last year with her in my home everyday and do not for one minute regret getting rid of her.

I think you need to stand up for your own child and term. Maybe there is nothing wrong with this kid but it obviously isnt working at your daycare. Don't beat yourself up over it, I did and for a long time I felt like I had failed. I have learned that it isnt my job to fix other peoples kids problems. Move on for your own child's sake.

rhymia1 07-10-2011 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catherder (Post 125641)
So during diaper changes, food prep and serving, wiping another child's face, tossing out a dirty Kleenex, picking up a broken toy, and the other MILLION times when you are looking directly at another child or object you would keep this biter confined to a high chair?

It is possible for you to 100% of the time see what each child is doing even while directly focusing on another child's needs??

IMHO, It is not possible. I am sorry. I can't believe anyone would believe that.

I am in the same room at all times, my kids even have their own playrooms...within a great room. Occassionally things happen. It is a fact of life.

We are not super human...We stack the odds in our favor as much as possible and deal with issues as they present themselves. Biting is no different.

Wow. I never said I was superhuman:confused: I tried to convey that I create my environment to be able to keep tabs on the children at all times. And yes, if I had a child who was biting, he would have to be confined for everyone's safety. To me, that's common sense. But I've also admitted that the few times I've had a child bite it's been age appropriate (15 months-2.5 years) and a one time thing. I haven't had serial biters or biters who were older or had other aggressive issues.

Quote:

It's not even safe. I wouldn't want my child in the care of someone who wouldn't focus ON him directly when he needed immediate and precise care
And I wouldn't want my child in a care situation where the provider's first thought is to terminate if there is a difficult situation.

And with that thought, I bow out. I came to get ideas on how to keep school agers amused this summer, not to argue over issues I don't have.

nannyde 07-10-2011 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhymia1 (Post 126029)
And I wouldn't want my child in a care situation where the provider's first thought is to terminate if there is a difficult situation.

Depends on what difficult is. When it comes to harming one of my kids.. yes that's too difficult for me. I know what I can and can't do. I can't manage a child that hurts a kid.

One of the biggest sellers of my daycare is having a LONG LONG history of no violence in my day care. Parents know when they come here that their kid will go home unscathed.

It's one of my specialties... no violence

Unregistered 08-12-2011 10:21 PM

Unique problem
 
I babysit from my home and I am in the process of getting certified to have a home day care. I have been watching this one child for this entire summer. He is 22 months and he is a biter. The child that he is biting is my 20 month old. He does seem to bite more when he is frustrated, but sometimes it is just because.

I can not keep my eyes on him every second of the day and I feel so bad for my poor child getting bit multiple times a day. When I tell the mother at the end of the day, her solution is to bite him and yell at him. I know she is his mother, but that just doesn't make sense to me. There is no way that child knows that he is being punished for something he did 2 hours ago. It makes me not want to tell her that he has been biting, but at the same time she needs to be told. I am at my wits end. I have started putting him in the play pen whenever I need to take my eyes off of him for an extended time. Or he or my son follow me, so they are not left together.

Should I go ahead and tell the mom I can't keep him anymore? I just can't stand it when my child gets hurt. It makes me angry. I know the biter is a baby too, so I do keep my cool with him.

Brooklyn's Mommy 08-22-2011 11:58 AM

My Child is also a Victim
 
My daughter has been attending the same daycare for 2 1/2 years (since she was almost 1) and has had constant, ongoing problems with being bitten. While in the baby room (before the age of 2), my daughter couldn't tell me who was biting her and the daycare's policy is not to disclose that information, but it was happening constantly (and really bad bites with broken skin, blood and teeth marks that lasted for days). Then, as my daughter's speaking skills developed, she started telling me it was this "Victoria" girl at her daycare that was biting her. For a while, I didn't believe her because they seem to play well together. The daycare just kept saying that it was because they were young and "the biter" didn't have the verbal skills to express herself, so she was biting when frustrated. Eventually, after my daughter repeatedly naming this child I felt quite certain it was "Victoria" who was doing the biting. I have now been able to learn more about the "incidents" when the biting is occuring and the daycare is baffled! Victoria is targetting my daughter (and others) completely UNPROVOKED! The last 3 incidents happened while my daughter was playing/reading on her own and Victoria comes out of no where and bites her! And THAT IS WITH A "SHADOW" STAFF PERSON WATCHING HER! The daycare has apparently tried everything in their power to keep the biter under watch and prevent her from biting (particularly my child because I have raised such a stink about it!). They give the biter time outs, remove her from play, have tried to make her help "her friend" by putting ice on the wounds that she causes and nothing works! This last incident happened with her "shadow" standing RIGHT THERE! The daycare has tried everthing. They have no clear policy on next steps (ie. expulsion) and they seem to be willing to continue to work with "the biter" even though (after 2 1/2 years) they have NO IDEA what her triggers are! The incidents are so random and can not be predicted in any way, yet they are very severe in nature.

As the parent of the victim, I have HAD ENOUGH! I don't care if your child is the biter and is "otherwise a good child"! If your child is repeatedly and consistently brutalizing and bullying all the other children, then REMOVE YOUR CHILD AND FIND ANOTHER MORE SUITABLE SETTING FOR YOUR CHILD! I am tired of hearing excuses for this behaviour! What type of message is it sending all the other kids?! First, it tells them that their safety and security doesn't matter and figuring out the psychy of the problem child is more important. Second, it tells them that there are no 'real' consequences for their actions and even if you break the rules, you will be fine. In fact! You are actually rewarded by breaking the rules because now you get a daycare provider devoted to you 24/7 to answer your every whim, while the other 7 children under that workers charge need to wait in line!

I have been VERY patient allowing them time over this past 2 1/2 years to figure things out and work with this child. NOTHING HAS WORKED and I am done waiting! I am done paying $500/month to have my child terrorized by one bully! My daughter is being robbed of her sense of security. I rely on her feeling safe and comfortable there, to make life less stressful and enjoyable for us both! Because of these incidences, I have a 3 1/2 year old who is terrified to go to daycare! I have to struggle to get her out of the house in the morning and then pry her from my neck when we get there. ALL BECAUSE SHE IS TERRIFIED, WONDERING WHEN THIS DEMON CHILD WILL ATTACK HER NEXT! I am exhausted with it all! I should not have to deal with the stress of this! Daycares are not required to "fix" your children! If you have a child with a behavioural problem, then remove your child and seek out the care that best suits their needs!

Thanks for reading.

Unregistered 08-29-2011 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 253)
Yesterday my son got kicked out of the daycare, let me explain the story. When my son was born i had to put him in a daycare, he was not but a few months old when a little girl a year and a half older then him started biting him, well the provider would never tell us about it or produce reports, so one day i decided to watch her, the little girl walked up to my son and bit him on the back 2 times, the provider was staring at her the whole time this is going on, she did not fuss the little girl but instead fussed my son who did nothing. so i took him out of there and put him in another daycare, well he started biting there, but it wasn't all the time, accually the only time he would bite was when he was biten first, well yesterday he bite a little boy in the face, the daycare called me up and told me i needed to pick up my son and he was no longer welcomed back, when i got there she had all of his stuff in a bag waiting for me at the front door. i was irate with this, then i called her later to find out about something else and she proceeded to tell me that they excluded him from the halloween party and made him watch the other kids in there costumes and getting candy while he was being punished and waiting for me. what would you do in my situation


In a situation where your kid is hurting other children and they do not have enough staff to have one person dedicated to him that is their easy solution, I particularly work with the parentand child for a period of tiem, but if it not works I do give a three week notice. I have 11 children for 3 providers so we can not have one provider dedicated all the time to one child for months that will means that 2 to 3 children are gettng neglected. Why do they separete your child out of the Halloween party was he bitting? I would do the same first time for 2 minutes for each year of age second time a little longer, if he keeps bitting I will separete him to another room, he need to get consecuences for his bad choises like to be price for the good ones. This days people talk all the time about children rights that I think is wonderful, but what about about their duties like to be nice, be respectfull etc...this are things that need to be taught as early as we can.

Unregistered 08-29-2011 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 8225)
My son was kicked out Daycare today for biting. Unfortunatley this is not the first time. When it started he was about 18 months and the day care he was in started sending him home about once a week for biting. Then they kicked him out. I tried everything, there were no other daycares with openings and I had to quit my job. I made up my mind to take some time off with him and try to let him mature. I stayed home with him for a year. When I first put him in daycare again he did not bite. He started a few months after. I was getting called to pick him up all the time. So I switched him to another daycare before he could get kicked out again. Once again he did not bite for a month or so. Then he started biting at that daycare too. My child was refered to special education for learing disabilities, so I had to move to a daycare in the school district so he could get picked up. He did not bite at first at this new Daycare either. Then he started bitting everyday. This morning when I went to drop him off, the director told me that the State called and said my son could no longer attend the daycare because he had bit another child and caused the child to bleed. I dont know what to do. The family doctor never has any answers, so I'm wondering what type of doctor I should take him to? Does anyone know if he can go to another daycare now that he has been reported by the state? I dont want to have to keep moving him around but I need to work. It's really not fair that he has to keep going through adjusting over and over again. I also have a daughter who each time this happens has to start over again at a new daycare and hard for her as well.

You need to take responsability in your children behaivor. You have to give consecuences for his act at home too, a daycare provider can not do all the job, This days people talk all about childrens rights that I think is wonderful, but what about childrens duties and responsabilities like be nice, respectful etc...a two minutes timeout is not going to make any change and providers cannot do anything else, so it is your responsability. Other thing providers can be sue by the bitees parents?

Unregistered 08-31-2011 05:19 PM

Biting child
 
I currently work at a center where we have a child that has been biting. It started about six months ago and stopped for a while, but this week he has bitten someone everyday. Today, he bit 3 children. He is the ONLY child that bites.. We have brought this to the owners attention (she's never there) but we are not getting much support. She suggested we seperate the child from the others, but we are a small center, don't have too many staff members and can't really "afford" to have a teacher watch 1 child while there are few to watch the others. This little boy is 2 1/2 years old, only bites if someone has something he wants. I have tried to help him by telling him we don't bite our friends, and I know you want that toy but "Jill" is playing with it right now, we have to wait our turn.. Etc.. I have also tried to give him as much extra special attention when possible and make a big deal out it when he does something good and kind. We have had this lil guy since he was about 3 months old and I love him. I'm just frustrated because we've tried many things that don't work. I understand how the other parents feel. I know of many other daycares that would not let this continue. I'm not sure what to do? I'm actually considering trying to find another job because of the lack of support from the owner.

Concerned Mommy 09-19-2011 01:05 PM

What if the daycare is not reporting the bites?
 
Here is my concern. My child has had one-on-one in home care for the first 21 months. Recently we transitioned to pre-school daycare. In 6 weeks my child was bit twice. And has bit antother once (she bit another the same day she was bit). Those were reported. I understand biting is a normal part of the toddler life.

However, there have been two instances when she had injuries and it was never reported. One was a scraped forehead and scratch all the way down the face, down to the chin. The other was a bite on the shoulder that had broken the skin. I didn't notice until bath time.

So it could be they know and don't report it. Or they aren't watching and it goes unnoticed. Both options are unacceptable. Or it could just be that toddlers are so active it's hard to catch everything. (I didn't mention that she has had other bruises, marks, etc. Those I figured could be from just regular playing... I don't overreact on every mark).

At what point should I be concerned? Is this normal? What if they just aren't reporting all the incidents out of fear that parents will remove their kids/revenue?

Crystal 09-19-2011 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Concerned Mommy (Post 146571)
Here is my concern. My child has had one-on-one in home care for the first 21 months. Recently we transitioned to pre-school daycare. In 6 weeks my child was bit twice. And has bit antother once (she bit another the same day she was bit). Those were reported. I understand biting is a normal part of the toddler life.

However, there have been two instances when she had injuries and it was never reported. One was a scraped forehead and scratch all the way down the face, down to the chin. The other was a bite on the shoulder that had broken the skin. I didn't notice until bath time.

So it could be they know and don't report it. Or they aren't watching and it goes unnoticed. Both options are unacceptable. Or it could just be that toddlers are so active it's hard to catch everything. (I didn't mention that she has had other bruises, marks, etc. Those I figured could be from just regular playing... I don't overreact on every mark).

At what point should I be concerned? Is this normal? What if they just aren't reporting all the incidents out of fear that parents will remove their kids/revenue?

A scratch of that nature, especially on the face, most definitley should have been noticed by the provider/teacher. Even if the provider did not witness it first hand, she would have had to have known it happened and found out what DID happen. The bite should not have gone unnoticed either....a bite that breaks the skin is certainly going to result in a SCREAMING victim......there is no reason at all for either incident to not be documented. These types of injuries are not normal, every day "bumps and bruises" types of injuries.

Did you ask the provider/teacher at pick up about the face marks and ask the following day about the bite marks, and if yes, what was the response?

Kaddidle Care 09-20-2011 04:34 AM

You said PreSchool so you're talking about a 3-4 year old? How big is the class and how big is the Daycare class? Pay close attention to the Adult/Student ratio. If 1 adult has more than 7 children to watch alone, there will be problems unless they have a perfect bunch of children.

Do talk to your provider today. If the Center is very busy it may be that they just didn't have time to write it down. If the workers do shift work the afternoon crew may not know what happened so talk to the morning people first. Ask them how they treated the injury as well. Did they clean it? Ice it? Ignore it?

As Crystal said, a scratch that large or a bite would produce quite a stir that would usually involve LOUD crying. If nobody knows what happened
it's time to consider moving your child.

Unregistered 09-20-2011 08:08 AM

How much is too much?
 
My 17 month old is in daycare. She started getting bit around 10 months old. As far as I am aware it is mainly the same child doing the bitting. She has gotten bit at least 7 times since the middle of August. I realize my child could have been the bitter and actually bit last week, however why should all the children in the classroom have to suffer because of this one child bitting everyone.

Help :-(

Crystal 09-20-2011 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 146747)
My 17 month old is in daycare. She started getting bit around 10 months old. As far as I am aware it is mainly the same child doing the bitting. She has gotten bit at least 7 times since the middle of August. I realize my child could have been the bitter and actually bit last week, however why should all the children in the classroom have to suffer because of this one child bitting everyone.

Help :-(

Only you can help. If they are not removing the biter, you remove your child. That simple.

Concerned Mommy 10-03-2011 07:43 AM

Now she got bit on the FACE!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Crystal (Post 146622)
A scratch of that nature, especially on the face, most definitley should have been noticed by the provider/teacher. Even if the provider did not witness it first hand, she would have had to have known it happened and found out what DID happen. The bite should not have gone unnoticed either....a bite that breaks the skin is certainly going to result in a SCREAMING victim......there is no reason at all for either incident to not be documented. These types of injuries are not normal, every day "bumps and bruises" types of injuries.

Did you ask the provider/teacher at pick up about the face marks and ask the following day about the bite marks, and if yes, what was the response?

-----------------------------------------------------------

So an update to my 23 month old daughter who had bites... so we are now looking at 4 bites in 8 weeks... and just on Friday, this bite was on the FACE. No bite is ever easy to take when you see marks on your child... but on the face.... it was just shocking and horribly upsetting.

It is not their policy to say who the biter is... but my daughter did say a name... and basically it was confirmed from the conversation I had this morning. This boy is always all over my daughter. When I picked her up one day, I saw him tackler her... I believe he has bit her at least once before... I saw a incident report taped to his cubby the same day she had hers from being bit. I am thinking I need a parent-teacher conference. For daycare professionals out there... is there something that can be done if you have the same culprit biting a certain child? Is it time to move on to a new school?

For the previous incidents that went "unnoticed"... basically they said they never saw her cry... didn't notice anything out of the ordinary... seems unbelievable when you have a bite hard enough to break the skin... they apologized but said they didn't see it. This one on the face though.... everyone could see that... clear individual teeth marks on her cheekbone right below her eye.

Unregistered 10-12-2011 06:11 PM

Here's my biting child problem. My DD is 16 months old and I was just told she's bitten a little boy at her daycare (almost 3 years old) a couple times. He bullies her and is aggressive with her, taking toys away and pushing her down. Apparently (I'm told) she only bites him when she is basically at her wit's end. She can't say "stop" yet, but will make verbal cues meaning she'd like him to stop. After biting him, he stops. The daycare provider actually sides more with her (my DD) saying she understands why she does it, but she also does put her in time out for biting. My DD has never bitten anyone else, just this little boy. I dont know what I can do, as a parent, to get her to stop. I can't punish her after the fact of course, since I don't see her until hours later. I feel like the blame is more with the boy who shouldn't be pushing her down and being rough with her, but there isn't anything I can personally do about that either. I don't want her to learn that biting is how to solve her problems.

Opinion 10-13-2011 10:29 AM

But...
 
Here's the tough part- those who work in a day care can't really do any punishment rather than time out. When a child bites, they fill out a form for the parent that they must sign right in front of them. The parents are made aware. And if the child is 1, you can't exactly reason with them yet. Telling them to "use words" doesn't work. Also, a lot of times, and I hate to say it, but the biter bites because a child has yanked away a toy or a item of clothing or anything that the child was using. So it's not always just a big bully biting... Sometimes it's the kid being bullied. And what about when you're changing a child's diaper? Your back is turned long enough to clean them up and a bite happens. Day care workers do not have eyes on the back of their heads! They can't lock up a biter or anything like that. And to have one person constantly shadow a child is certainly unreasonable. Schools don't even do that.

Unregistered 10-27-2011 07:20 PM

My son is a biter at 18 months
 
My son is only 18 months and has recently started biting at daycare. From what I have been told it is usually one other boy, but twice has been his "best buddy". I feel completely helpless as he does not act like this around me. He is an only child (for another 8 months anyways) so he isn't around other toddlers at home to tempt him, and for me to correct him. Today he got sent home because he bit twice in one day. I got in my car and fought back tears the whole way there. It is not like I can discipline him hours later. He is not old enough to understand. I'm afraid too that by picking him up like I did today will only teach him that if he bites Mommy or Daddy will show up to get him. I am embarassed, frustrated, and feel so helpless. I know the other parents are pretty upset as well. Our daycare doesn't have a confidentiality policy, or if they do they don't follow it. I am going to talk with the Director to see if we can come up with some kind of plan. That is the only thing that I can do.

Unregistered 11-02-2011 11:36 AM

restraining a biter
 
My child was restrained in a highchair ALL DAY by his daycare provider(s) b/c he had bitten a child. This restraining had gone on for 3 days straight. Fortunately I found out about it and immediately pulled my child from the daycare. I have another child who was a "victim" of biting when she was in daycare, so I have been on both sides of this. Restraining a child is NEVER okay to teach them a lesson. My child was barely 17 months old when this occurred.

Cat Herder 11-02-2011 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 161533)
My child was restrained in a highchair ALL DAY by his daycare provider(s) b/c he had bitten a child. This restraining had gone on for 3 days straight. Fortunately I found out about it and immediately pulled my child from the daycare. I have another child who was a "victim" of biting when she was in daycare, so I have been on both sides of this. Restraining a child is NEVER okay to teach them a lesson. My child was barely 17 months old when this occurred.

It most likely was not about teaching him anything. :( It was probably the ONLY way the provider had to keep the other kids safe. :o

Most toddler rooms are not set up to handle this. :( Not enough room for them to spread out and the frustration builds for them.

I would not go back to work in a "typical" center for ANYTHING. Failure techniques are the only options you are given as an employee. :(

I am willing to bet the teacher did not like doing it, either. :( I am glad she told you the truth (at least I pray she did). That does not happen enough, IMHO. :o

Sorry it happened. :(

Unregistered 12-07-2011 11:12 AM

frustrated mom of a biter
 
I am wondering if anyone knows my rights as a parent regarding my child being a biter. First off, she NEVER bites at home and she has 3 siblings. I am continually getting calls from daycare stating that my child has bitten and broken the skin and per daycare policy, the child must be removed for 24 hours due to this issue. I understand that this is the policy and I have been fine with it intil now because it is jeopardizing my job. I always explain to her that biting is not ok and it hurts her friends and they dont like to be bit and neither does she. My frustration is that I am beginning to believe that there is not skin broken and they just dont want to deal with my child. I understand that if another child bites mine they cannot tell me who did it. understood and fine with that. BUT I am beginning to feel like I need proof that this is actually happening to they extent that they state. they tell me they are not allowed to tell me who she bit, but I also feel that if they are making me miss almost 2 days of work and are jeopardizing my employment that I should be allowed to see some proof. Does anuone know what my rights are, and also how to get her to quit biting???? its only in times of conflict or like today, I asked them to keep a close eye on her because she had a tough morning and is tired due to she woke up at 4 and never went back to sleep. lo and behold I get a call 2 hours later saying I need to come get her and she cant come back tomorrow and then got written up at work before I left for taking so many days off. What are my rights and what do I do?????????

Cat Herder 12-07-2011 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 174521)
I am wondering if anyone knows my rights as a parent regarding my child being a biter. First off, she NEVER bites at home and she has 3 siblings. I am continually getting calls from daycare stating that my child has bitten and broken the skin and per daycare policy, the child must be removed for 24 hours due to this issue. I understand that this is the policy and I have been fine with it intil now because it is jeopardizing my job. I always explain to her that biting is not ok and it hurts her friends and they dont like to be bit and neither does she. My frustration is that I am beginning to believe that there is not skin broken and they just dont want to deal with my child. I understand that if another child bites mine they cannot tell me who did it. understood and fine with that. BUT I am beginning to feel like I need proof that this is actually happening to they extent that they state. they tell me they are not allowed to tell me who she bit, but I also feel that if they are making me miss almost 2 days of work and are jeopardizing my employment that I should be allowed to see some proof. Does anuone know what my rights are, and also how to get her to quit biting???? its only in times of conflict or like today, I asked them to keep a close eye on her because she had a tough morning and is tired due to she woke up at 4 and never went back to sleep. lo and behold I get a call 2 hours later saying I need to come get her and she cant come back tomorrow and then got written up at work before I left for taking so many days off. What are my rights and what do I do?????????

IMHO, It is time to start looking for a new daycare environment. :o

There are MANY reasons I say this. First and foremost, the current classroom environment and your relationship with the providers is not benefitting anyone, especially your daughter.

Typically we only sent them home a couple times before we had enough documented evidence to show we fulfilled our responsibility to try to resolve the issue. Termination usually follows with limited notice. :o

I can tell you that I have had kids come to me after having been expelled and never have the first issue due to our program. Sometimes a change of environment is just what the child needed.


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