Terming Aggressive 20 Month Old - Is This Fair?
I have a 20 mo DCB, he's been here for 3 months. We struggled in the first couple of weeks, but he has overall fit in to the program well.
The past few weeks he has been hitting and pushing the other kids, we are redirecting him as much as we can, but he is 20 months old, and short of my carrying him around all day, I'm not sure what else to do. Yesterday at pick up, my favorite DCM of a 13 mo DCB pulled me aside to talk about the aggression she is noticing in the 20 mo. She said at drop off that morning 20mo DCB tackled 13mo dcb and was hitting him on the floor. My husband was with the kids at that point, and he confirmed that this did happen, and both him and DCM had to pull 20mo off of 13mo. DCM of 13mo was sweet about it, but she is concerned about her child being rough housed. Is it fair to term a 20 month old for aggression? It seems young, but he is a bit of a terror. His mom doesn't seem concerned about the aggression, and said that they do let him rough house with cousins. I think it's a "boys will be boys" attitude. Is there anything else I can do to help him learn to touch nicely? Should I just term and be done with it? TIA! |
Originally Posted by MCC: |
If you can replace him quickly I would. Otherwise you may find yourself with the 20mo and not the sweet 13mo. DCM of 13mo will probably leave if this doesn't stop.
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Originally Posted by MCC: |
Originally Posted by NeedaVaca: |
Originally Posted by NeedaVaca: |
I think a lot of it is his age, personally, so I would try to give him a 'probation' as someone else suggested, and I agree with all the things suggested - an area to play by himself when he is getting aggressive as well as alerting 13m mom that there is a plan in place.
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Originally Posted by llpa: I really don't have anywhere to separate him to, other than another room with my assistant. He uses his body to push the babies around, he will just go sit next to them and start leaning on them until we grab him. He bangs his head against other kids, he hits, and when we take things away that he is hitting with, he has extreme meltdowns. It's exhausting. Is this normal "boy" behavior? I honestly have never dealt with a child this aggressive at this age. |
I am not a fan of parents rough-housing with their little kids at home. The roughest kids I have are all kids who parents admit roughhouse with Dad, big brothers, or their dogs! At such a young age, these kids don't understand that they can't do this with eveyrone. They don't understand that they are hurting kids.
I'd sit the mom of 20 month DCB down and tell her you are putting him on probation. That the roughhousing he does outside of daycare is making his behavior unsafe in daycare. If nothing changes, I would terminate. Before long, a rough 20 month old is a rough 2.5 year old and the older and stronger he gets, the more likely someone will get seriously hurt. 20 months is not too young to start learning "hands are not for hitting." |
Originally Posted by MCC: He wrestles at home all the time. His parents think throwing toys "hard" (in their words) are typical behaviors and to be expected. There really has to be reinforcing done at home or else nothing is going to change. My 2.5 year old only has a few more weeks here, so I'm not going to make a big deal out of it, but if he was staying longer, I'd have a heart to heart with the mom. |
How to I phrase this to DCM without breaking her heart?
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You could say something like,
DCM, I need to talk to you about what we can do to help Bobby stop roughhousing at daycare. I am responsible for the safety of all the children, and because he is so physical with the other children (hitting, pushing them over, describe exactly here what he's doing), we need to make a plan to stop this behavior or I will have to end daycare services. Over the next two weeks at daycare, I am doing to do ___, ___, and ____. I will need you to follow up and reinforce this at home. I strongly suggest that Bobby no longer roughhouses with older cousins as I've seen this teach young children that it's okay to be rough with others. I'll check in with you, but please be aware that if Bobby continues to hit/push/shove during this two-week period, I will have to end daycare services. |
Originally Posted by llpa: If all this DCB sees with interaction with others (or his cousins) is violence and "rough housing" then all he will every mimic is violence and rough housing. Is he with you FT? What happened at drop-off that this took place? I suspect if nothing is triggering his violent behavior that it's a learned behavior he needs to unlearn. Teaching gentle hands was one of my FIRST things with my DS at 8mos when I had a 6mo old DCG. Then when he was 10 mos we got an 8mo old DCB and so on. We had to use gentle hands with our friends or be moved away. He was very mobile from an early age so it was tough but he's a very good boy now. His aggression peaked around 18-20 mos and he was biting one DCB in particular and it was rough but his WAS triggered and we had to interfere before that trigger went off. |
It's not a "boy" behavior. I have a little girl that does it. She started at about 15 months, she's 18 months now. Dad is a wrestling coach. I talked to them, and they enrolled her full time so that dad wouldn't have to take her with him to wrestling practice. She's gotten much better since then, but it's still an issue. Luckily, she's the smallest one in care so it's not as big of a danger.
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Originally Posted by hwichlaz: I would be concerned about the 13 month old but not because I was afraid they are going to leave but because mom is concerned about her child. I understand that she actually witnessed this but I also think she needs to understand that 99.9% of toddlers learn via physical interaction and that rough and gentle have NO meaning to a child under age 2. They need to be taught this. I would definitely have a discussion with the 20 month old's parents but I would not classify this as any more than normal. A group of toddlers ARE going to be physical. A group of toddlers ARE going to push, pull, hit, and try to "fight" for what they want/need in whatever manner they know and right now at 13 and 20 months, all they know is physical. Communication skills are just emerging at that age and impulse control is virtually nil so having the right expectations about what will and won't happen is necessary for a parent when they enroll their child in GROUP care. How many little ones do you have? I mean no disrespect to your DH but was he actually watching the toddlers or was he doing multiple things at once so his eyes weren't actually on the 20 month old? Sometimes, that is the problem... honestly you really do have to have your eyes on a toddler at ALL times or provide them with an environment that doesn't allow for them to be physical with others. |
Originally Posted by Blackcat31: I have the same issues here, at times. It's frustrating to me that I can't multi-task. Honestly, sometimes, it's very boring to sit there actually watching them play, just to intervene in case of trouble. But, I do know it's part of the job. |
Originally Posted by Blackcat31: |
Originally Posted by Blackcat31: Thank you for this response. He doesn't seem to be doing this b/c he wants a toy or wants something at all. He will be clear across the room from 13 mo and just charge at him and bring him to the ground. I really feel like this is something that is being encouraged at home. I have 7 kids under 3.5, so they are all little. I also have a full time assistant. At drop off yesterday there was a 3.5 year old (my DD), a 3 yo, 20mo DCB and 13 mo DCB had just arrived. When DCM dropped 13mo over the gate to the playroom, 20 mo old charged at him and took him to the ground. My H is great with the kids, but he does scroll through the internet on occasion, or get side tracked playing something with the 3 year olds and forgets he needs to hawk eye the toddlers. However, yesterday he was talking to DCM while she was dropping off her kid, so I feel like he was pretty much right there when it happened. |
Originally Posted by MCC: I am betting your DH is great! Most men don't like to be that hands on so please know I was NOT implying your DH wasn't being a good caregiver...just that sometimes yes, we do have to have a constant eye on toddlers...especially those that are more physical. I had a toddler bite another on the back WHILE on my lap so I do know how it only takes a second for something to happen. They are quick little buggars. :lol: As for the running across the room....stop him mid-step and STERNLY say "NO!" Use your "I am NOT kidding" voice each time you anticipate him being physical. Even if he is seeing this at home or even participating in wrestling matches with dad, he can still learn appropriate behavior at your house. Kids are quick to decipher what flies at one place and not another. If necessary keep a PNP set up in the corner and each time he is intercepted from being physical with someone else, give him a firm "NO!" and plop him in the PNP. with NO other attention for his behavior. Then shower the anticipated victim with love and attention. SHOW dcb that good behavior earns attention. ;) When you leave the room or are busy doing something that doesn't allow you to directly keep your eyes on him, plop him in the PNP. Remove him immediately upon returning. If possible, I'd try and get a super play yard verses a PNP as it seems to work better but a PNP will work just so long as it isn't the same one or in the same area that he naps in because you don't want him to equate the PNP to punishment and napping...kwim? ...otherwise you might just cause some napping issues. Rinse and repeat. He WILL get it. He is just stuck in between being a baby where EVERY little need he had and every move he made was addressed quickly and as cute. Now you have to unteach him all of that. That is what makes toddlers hard. We tend to every need they have as infants and then as toddlers we wonder why they are so self centered and needy. :lol: |
Well the 13 month old's moms does need to remember her child is in group care, not a bubble, with other children and although this is a bit extreme, kids will be physical with each other at some point like BC said. It's part of learning. But it's our job to teach them boundaries and what is and isn't okay. That 13 month old may also be a handful n 7 mos, you never know!! Until they start showing these behaviors we can't correct it.
I know how some parents are with their babies and they get very protective and concerned. Their child's care during the day is out of their hands so having a good relationship with the baby's mom and knowing you, your dh & assistant are all taking good care is important during a time like this. Aggressive DCB's mom does need to try and cut down the rough housing at home though. It really does carry through to their peer interactions. |
When mine were little... I admit we did a little rough housing. But they were only allowed to do it with US, not friends or siblings. And it was only allowed during a certain time or situation. And when we said wrestling was over, it was over.
We actually did a very minor family type wrestling. The kids giggled more than they rough housed. And it was never an issue. But I really think either some kids don't understand here is a time and place for everything or they just aren't taught personal boundaries to go along with it maybe. OP, IMHO. It's your job to protect the others and I see you are taking that seriously!! I'd out the mom of the agressive child on notice and behavior probation for two weeks and work together to get a game plan. Good luck!! |
Thank you all so very much for your comments!
I talked to DCM of 20 mo today at pick up. She was really taken a back, which is strange b/c this isn't the first time I've mentioned it to her. I told her I wanted to work on it together as a team for the next two weeks, and then we would sit down and talk about whether my care was a good fit for DCB. I am going to bring my super yard out and use it to trap him during drop offs and when he gets aggressive. My only hesitation with this is he is going to whine and complain, and he has one of the least pleasant whines, but oh well, we will deal. |
Originally Posted by MCC: |
Originally Posted by MCC: |
Well- DCM told me at drop off that they want to talk on Monday morning, both DCM and DCD. I'm just going to have to assume they are terming over this.
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Originally Posted by MCC: |
Originally Posted by Blackcat31: I really feel like this can be resolved, and I don't want them to term. I really am trying to take your advice and not think in terms of money, but I already have one opening right now, and having 2 openings puts me in a very uncomfortable spot, and having to tap into savings. I also am feeling discouraged b/c this is now child 3 in the past 15 months that I've had to address behavior issues with, and the parents term immediately without trying to resolve the issues. It's hard to not think it's me causing the issue or wording something wrong with parents. |
Originally Posted by MCC: I would really try and make the meeting positive and let them know that you don't want them to leave because you are more than willing to work through these issues with them. Nothing is forever and this child's behavior IS going to change and the parents will need to know that you aren't going to bail in them whenever there is an issue. I think parents just really need to know that we DO want to work with them and muddle through this together. I would make sure they understand that you are not blaming anyone for anything and that the issue at hand IS temporary IF everyone is open and honest and working towards the same goal. Make a big deal about how much you value that kind if relationship so they really feel that you ARE trying to make this work. Let them know you are trying because you DO care about their child and his (as well as everyone else's well-being is a priority) I am sure because it is their child causing the stress that you may be thinking they are the problem when in reality kids go through all sorts of phases and as caregivers and parents, we just need to make sure we are on the same page and supporting one another by doing what is best for the child and the group he belongs to. Who knows, in a couple months their kid could be the one getting picked on by an older child... things change, kids go through phases and the whole point of needing to have them aware of what is happening is so that everyone is safe, respected and cared for in one harmonious environment. :) |
Originally Posted by Blackcat31: |
Originally Posted by Blackcat31: I think this OP has had parents term as soon as anything was brought to light because they want their kid to behave the way they do. They like it. They think it's adorable. They may even think it's advanced. My answer to her would be that I am not a "boys will be boys" day care and he may want that. He wants to get physical and take down kids. He loves the excitement of it. I just can't host that. I can't afford to pay the medical on "boys will be boys". I can't afford the loss of clients who have children on the receiving end of "boys will be boys. I'm not judging "boys will be boys". I'm totally okay with it and know there are LEGIONS of parents of boys who dig that. I just can't host it. |
I had the talk with mom and dad tonight. They seemed really concerned actually, and are taking this very seriously. They made an appointment with the pediatrician to talk to them about ways they can help DCB, they have that tomorrow.
DCM, I think, was a bit peeved at me, but DCD (who I rarely see) was very willing to do whatever it takes to solve the issue. He did admit that they have been doing some rough play at home, and promised to stop it all together, at least for now. DCD kept stressing about how long they waited for a spot to open up here (7 months) and that the last thing they want to have to move DCB somewhere else. It ended up being a really great talk, and I feel like we kind of got to know each other a bit more. Thank you all for your guidance through this! :hug: |
I'm glad to hear the talk went well!:hug:
Just remember to follow through on what you discussed and document ANY further incidents carefully. Good luck! |
What a wonderful response! I'm so glad things are going that direction. I'd try to give them (parents) some positive reinforcement too as soon as you can (DCB did really well this morning, it looks like things are improving!).
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Originally Posted by MCC: |
Originally Posted by nannyde: |
Agreed. Pediatricians usually perpetuate the whole "boys will be boys" myth. I bet they come back with "it's a phase, he'll grow our of it" or something where the pediatrician implies it's a problem with your program. Be prepared for them to withdraw soon. I'm hoping he recommends a behavior assessment or an early intervention assessment, but I'm not holding my breath. If he doesn't, you can make these recommendations yourself. Now, whether or not they take your recommendation is a different story. You can only do so much. They have to meet you half way.
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