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-   -   My Provider Terminated Me With No Notice But I Paid In Advance. Do I Get A Refund? (https://www.daycare.com/forum/showthread.php?t=84882)

Unregistered 12-10-2016 04:51 PM

My Provider Terminated Me With No Notice But I Paid In Advance. Do I Get A Refund?
 
I went to my DC today to drop off my daughter and submit a notice that I would be leaving soon. Today is the 10th and I was paid up until the 14th. I asked her if I could just use what I had paid for and she cited the 2 weeks notice policy. I agreed that I did owe her a two weeks notice, which would put my last day as the 23rd. I and asked her what it would cost to cover the 15th to the 23rd so I could fulfill my obligation to give proper notice. She informed me that she would not prorate the remainder of my notice and I needed to pay her for two full weeks. By doing that I would be paying her for an additional 5 days that I do not wish to use her. I seem to think my 2 weeks notice begins when I provide it in writing while she seems to think its 2 weeks in addition to what I've already paid. The portion of the contract just says I need to provide a two weeks notice when I wish to end services and have to pay the two weeks wether or not I use the remaining days. Of which I agree to, since I offered to pay her and use her until the 23rd.

We went back and forth discussing figures, what dates I had paid and when, and the specifics of the contract. We disagreed on some things but we both remained calm and professional. I again stated I would pay, on the spot, the remainder of my 2 weeks notice if she could provide me with a dollar amount for the 9 unpaid days. She went in to her personal issues a bit and said it would be best for us to end our relationship immediately. She stated that she had to finish putting up her Christmas tree, decorations, and had holiday shopping to do. She told me about her sister needing surgery and an upcoming event for a grandchild. She offers 24/7 care but since I am the only parent who needs Saturday services, she has to postpone things to stay home with one kid (mine). The reason I selected her was because I do work full time, including nights and weekends. I asked her that since she is the one not accepting my notice and terminating the contract with no notice, would I be reimbursed for the 10th through the 14th. At first she said yes, then did the math and said no. She said she'd have to think all of this over and would let me know later. She proceded to put my daughter's things in a bag and send me on my way, causing me to miss today at work...which I had already paid for. Should she provide me a prorated refund for the 5 days shes refusing to provide care?

Mike 12-10-2016 06:11 PM

As far as your 2 weeks notice, if the daycare is paid weekly, most would require 2 full Sun to Sat weeks notice. If you end in the middle of a week, she may charge a daily rate for that period which could be more than the weekly rate anyway.

As for her terminating in the middle of your discussion, not very professional. My guess is, since you were leaving anyway and arguing about a few days, she took the opportunity to just terminate. Does the contract give information about her cancelling? If it says she also has to give 2 weeks notice, she should at least refund you the time left. Then again, if it's weekly and the refund is part of a week, she could calculate daily and could end up saying you owe her money.

Unregistered 12-10-2016 07:06 PM

thanks for responding! I've been refreshing the website eagerly waiting, as this is my first time posting in any forum :)

She takes payments for two weeks at a time ($360.50)or for the entire month ($721). over the long run I'd be better off paying the full month but I couldn't afford the lump sum after have been on maternity leave for 6 weeks, so I opted to pay the 2 week rate. She did allow a prorated amount since I started in mid November. For November I paid the $360 for 2 weeks (13th through 26th) plus an $83 prorated amount for the last few days of the month. She stated that she normally doesn't prorate but since she has miscalculated the original quote, we could meet at the additional $83 to end off November. The next payment I made was for December 1st through the 14th. Today is the tenth and she turned me away. I asked her to tell me what I owed for the remainder of the two weeks and thats when she started complaining about working Saturdays during the holiday season 😞

Regarding the contract, she said she would make copies after it was completed and signed, but never provided them to me. I let her know today that I still wanted my copy and she said she would probably have it ready mid to late next week. So, unfortunately I do not know the terms for her terminating the contract. Everything I've read say that they can terminate at will, which is fine, but I still feel like she should refund me for what I had already paid since it was her, not me, breaking the deal. I was not delinquent in paying, nor did the conversation become nasty to where she could even suggest that I was being rude or unreasonable. I could understand if there had been a loud argument or if Id become aggressive and threatening, then she wouldn't want to finish proving care. But, we were both calm, she handed me my stuff and I left.

childcaremom 12-11-2016 04:01 AM

It all depends on what your contract says. :(

My contract states that I can terminate at will with no refund of fees. If I terminate with unused tuition fees still here (paid days still unused), I use my discretion as to whether or not I refund the fees. I will say that I hardly ever do. Sometimes though, I do find it easier to refund and be done.

I have never been in the situation you are describing but it does seem unprofessional how your provider handled it. I can understand 'why' she didn't want to continue on but I still would have honoured our commitment and seen it through.

Again, it all comes back to your contract. Best of luck with your new provider!

mommyneedsadayoff 12-11-2016 09:14 AM

I would definitely refer back to contract, but if it has nothing specific other than you must provide a two week notice, then i agree she should have accepted the notice. If she was looking for a way out, a better option would have been her saying the 14 can be your last day and just finish out the week. I dont think its very professional for her to just terminate the contract, but it can be hard to make a stronger judgment bc we dont know her side of the story. Not saying you are lying, but there can be so much background information to these types of cases, so without hearing the other side, its hard to say definitively, who is right or wrong. Either way, best of luck to you and welcome to the forum!

Blackcat31 12-11-2016 09:17 AM

My opinion on ANY contract conflict is that a provider should always refund for any days/time she is unwilling to provide services.

I dont care what the contract says... if a provider terminates immediately for any reason, any fees paid for services that are "unavailable" for use should be returned.

Personally, I feel its the professional and ethical thing to do.

Unregistered 12-11-2016 09:44 AM

thanks for answering☺ Just curious since you said you have terminated a contract before, would you provide the refund if your reasons for breaking the contract were personal? She cited her sister having surgery as a general hardship. Then events with grandchildren that fall on Saturdays, as well as it just being hard to get her holiday decorations and shopping done since my daughter is typically the only one there on Saturdays. It seems like when she found out I was leaving, she decided it wasn't worth it to miss out on the following 2 weeks of holiday events/ planning that I was keeping her from.

Blackcat31 12-11-2016 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 617921)
thanks for answering☺ Just curious since you said you have terminated a contract before, would you provide the refund if your reasons for breaking the contract were personal? She cited her sister having surgery as a general hardship. Then events with grandchildren that fall on Saturdays, as well as it just being hard to get her holiday decorations and shopping done since my daughter is typically the only one there on Saturdays. It seems like when she found out I was leaving, she decided it wasn't worth it to miss out on the following 2 weeks of holiday events/ planning that I was keeping her from.

I never mix business with personal.

My thoughts are that personal issues from either party have no business in business.
It just muddies things up.

I operate the business side of my business in a very black and white manner.

It keeps things easy and clear for both parties.

Unregistered 12-11-2016 10:02 AM

I could understand if I had done something wrong, like not give notice or become aggressive in conversation, or if my daughter was causing some type in interference with care for the rest of the group, but that's not the case here. She wanted to me to pay another $360 on top of what I had paid, but that turned my 2 week notice in to a nearly 3 week notice. When I wouldn't do so, that's when she sent me out, telling me about her personal issues and not accepting my 2 weeks. She did at one point offer to reimburse me but changed her mind after doing the math. I got that its only $128, so I can't understand why she won't return it when shes the one who refused my notice and my money that day.

Blackcat31 12-11-2016 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 617924)
I could understand if I had done something wrong, like not give notice or become aggressive in conversation, or if my daughter was causing some type in interference with care for the rest of the group, but that's not the case here. She wanted to me to pay another $360 on top of what I had paid, but that turned my 2 week notice in to a nearly 3 week notice. When I wouldn't do so, that's when she sent me out, telling me about her personal issues and not accepting my 2 weeks. She did at one point offer to reimburse me but changed her mind after doing the math. I got that its only $128, so I can't understand why she won't return it when shes the one who refused my notice and my money that day.

I think you need to get a copy of the contract.
I dont understand why its taking her so many days to provide... nor why she didn't supply one immediately. :confused:

I think you "may" have a legal right to a refund but again, you are going to have to have a copy of your contract.

Do you have any of the convos about this issue between you and the provider in writing or email or text? (especially the info about providing a copy of contract). If not you need to request a copy in writing.

Once you get the contract, we can advise you as to what you your rights are and next steps you should take.

For me personally, its not always about the money but also principle.

Unregistered 12-11-2016 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackcat31 (Post 617926)
Do you have any of the convos about this issue between you and the provider in writing or email or text? (especially the info about providing a copy of contract). If not you need to request a copy in writing.

I have in texts where she aknowledges I tried to give her a 2 weeks notice and she didnt want follow through. I also have texts of her talking about her sister's surgery and her wanting to take a Saturday off for an out of town family event. I have me asking for my copy of the contract as she said she would supply within 30 days of signing, but she did not respond to that.

Unregistered 12-11-2016 08:30 PM

Update: she has refused, via text, to not provide me with my copy of the contract

Play Care 12-12-2016 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackcat31 (Post 617926)
I think you need to get a copy of the contract.
I dont understand why its taking her so many days to provide... nor why she didn't supply one immediately. :confused:

I think you "may" have a legal right to a refund but again, you are going to have to have a copy of your contract.

Do you have any of the convos about this issue between you and the provider in writing or email or text? (especially the info about providing a copy of contract). If not you need to request a copy in writing.

Once you get the contract, we can advise you as to what you your rights are and next steps you should take.

For me personally, its not always about the money but also principle.

I agree that he should have a copy of the contract he signed.
That said, my contract stipulates that the parents must make a copy for their records, and they sign acknowledging this. I even ask when they hand it in if they made the necessary copy.
I would absolutely supply a copy if necessary, but it always surprises me how many people rely on others to provide them with a copy. No way am I signing a contract and submitting it without making myself a copy.

Blackcat31 12-12-2016 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Play Care (Post 617943)
I agree that he should have a copy of the contract he signed.
That said, my contract stipulates that the parents must make a copy for their records, and they sign acknowledging this. I even ask when they hand it in if they made the necessary copy.
I would absolutely supply a copy if necessary, but it always surprises me how many people rely on others to provide them with a copy. No way am I signing a contract and submitting it without making myself a copy.

I expect parents to make a copy themselves as well but in this case, the provider told the parent SHE would make a copy "after it was completed and signed" so this situation seems to be different.

@OP ~ Your decision as to whether you feel it is worth pursuing or not but with text stating refusal to provide a copy of the contract now after she already said she would provide it, would be enough to lead me to filing in small claims court.

I would write the provider a letter stating the facts. You requested copy of the contract, were denied. You are requesting a refund for part of the two week withdrawal period in which the provider refused to provide services. Ask for a refund of that amount by X date or you will file in small claims court. Send the letter via certified mail.

If she does not pay by X date, file in conciliation court. In most states if you win, she will have to cover the cost of filing. If she wins, you are out the money you wanted back and the filing fee.

So like I said, it's your call as to whether you feel it's worth pursuing.

Unregistered 12-14-2016 07:51 AM

I appreciate all the feedback, everyone! I will definitely be pursuing and will take the advice on the certified letter. Are there any other resources out there for this type of thing? She is state licensed but not registered with the BBB.

Unregistered 12-14-2016 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Play Care (Post 617943)
That said, my contract stipulates that the parents must make a copy for their records, and they sign acknowledging this. I even ask when they hand it in if they made the necessary copy.
I would absolutely supply a copy if necessary, but it always surprises me how many people rely on others to provide them with a copy.

I agree I could have done some things differently in order to get my copy, like refuse to sign. The first day we met I asked if the contract was available for me to take home, review, and bring back signed. She said that I could come back at a different time and we would review together, sign page by page, then SHE would copy for me. When that day came she of course had printer issues and she would have my copy to me within 30 days. I was not aware that I would be leaving without a copy because of the statements she made to me in our original interview.
I also could have been more adamant in demanding my copies on a daily basis when I droppedoff my daughter. But either way, she is still the one who didn't do what she said she would :/


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