Mom Cried When I Told Her 2 Year Old Cannot Have Bottle
If you have been following my previous posts on this kid, you know that my food program lady said I cannot give this 2 year old a bottle. If he wants rice cereal, it must be from a bowl with a spoon. Milk must be from a sippy cup.
I told his mother last night at pick up that the food program lady said that. Her response was "What?! Not even if I bring it?!" I said "No, I'm sorry. That is their rules and I don't want to get in trouble with them." With tears in her eyes, she said that they've been wanting to get him to drink from a regular cup but the bottle is "so much easier." How is a bottle easier than a cup?! You put liquid in both of them and hand em over. I said that he doesn't even drink from them at my house, just chews on them and that is bad on his teeth. She said "okay" and walked out. She had tears in her eyes and her voice was shaky. |
What difference does it make whether or not he can have it at your house if he doesn't drink it?
I have a big suspicion that she is putting some sweet in the bottle with his bottles at home. Can you tell me the hours the child is there and if he eats or drinks anything during that time? How is his weight and how sickly is he? |
Its easier because she can treat him like a baby for longer and he isn't required to learn anything new. You did the right thing though and its whats best for this little guy.
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In the previous thread she said four days a week. Tues thru Fri. 10-4:30.:)
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Originally Posted by nannyde: I have smelled the milk in the bottles. They usually smell like regular milk with rice cereal. The cereal is obvious because it is grainy in the nipple. Not sure his weight, but he doesn't weigh much more than my 16 month old. As previously mentioned, he does not talk or try to communicate, doesn't play with toys or other kids, screams when anyone gets close to him, screams when he gets here and when his parents come to pick him up. Constantly drooly (and not teething, he has all of his teeth that he should have) doesn't make eye contact, doesn't listen to simple commands, ignores me when I say his name. |
Originally Posted by littlemommy: |
re: Mom cried
I feel sad for this child. Something seems to be going on. Have they had him evaluated? I apologize for not reading previous threads if this has been answered. This must be hard on the parents considering the things you have described. :(
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after all those other details, it sounds like something is seriously wrong. I am kinda shocked that you are putting up with all of this too. All that crying, digestive issues and social issues sounds like too much for me.
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I added something like this to my contract a couple of yrs. ago.
At age 1- I will supply all food, snacks, milk, and sippee cup(you can bring your own sippee cup if you prefer to) |
Originally Posted by Unregistered: I'm a little hesitant about asking the parents about autism or having him evaluated. They have kinda weird parenting styles and are just weird people themselves. I think they would be the type to be highly offended and just leave if I say anything. They act like he interacts with them a lot at home. His dad always says how excited he is to play at home and how happy he is. Maybe it's just here that he isn't happy? You would think at 2 years old he would show SOME interest in SOMETHING?! |
Originally Posted by momma2girls: |
could they be giving him mixed grain cereal instead of rice?
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I have a 15 month old and mom said she doesn't care how long he's on the bottle. She even warms the milk for him at night! I'm done trying cause its a waste of my time if all he gets at home is a bottle. He's refusing the sippy altogether now. He just had his one year check up and the Dr. said to be off the bottle by the end of the month. So she said, i don't care he can stay on it as long as he wants... Umm who's the parent??? Obviously its the baby!
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Originally Posted by blueclouds29: :) IMO You should be doing what is best for the child no matter what the lazy mom does at home. :) BTDT. |
Originally Posted by SilverSabre25: The thing is that you can't look at it with the feeding issues aside because if they don't eat and digest what they are eating you can get a TON of delays physically, behaviorally, developmentally. It's like what comes first... the chicken or the egg kind of thinking. I wish he could come to me :( |
Originally Posted by nannyde: Another reason I'm hesitant about asking them to get him evaluated is because she has mentioned before that they do not have health insurance. I know they take him in for his regular appointments, because she gave me an updated shot record. I'm sure their pedi would say something to them if he noticed at his regular appointments. Our town is known to have horrible pedi's..which reminds me I should ask who they go to! |
Originally Posted by blueclouds29: Have you tried warming the milk and serving it in the sippy cup for a few weeks?? It worked like a charm for me. Now I just let it sit for about 5 minutes before serving to knock the chill off. I have since noticed they all seem to drink it better that way. ;) Much less painting the table with it.... |
Blue cloud,
Warm the sippy cup milk. |
Originally Posted by littlemommy: Some mixed cereal has oatmeal and rye in them. That would explain the not digesting it. Has she told you exactly what he is eating at home? I've done a food journal with these kind of kids to put in writing what I TRIED to give them and have the parents document what they say they are having. Usually what it comes down to from home is baby fruit in stage two... yougurt (commercial yougurt is REALLY high in sugar)... and sugar or fatty bread products. The kids will have a HOST of grain products they eat BUT they are usually very sweet (sugar cereals) or very fatty and salty like goldfish. They also may be giving him baby fruit desert combo food... not REAL baby fruit. The parents believe the desert (which is really candy treat food) like Hawain Delight... Blueberry Buckle... etc. are REAL fruit. If you look at the contents they are really just blended deserts/treats. They may also be giving him the combo dinner stage two foods. They are usually high salt, high fat, and have VERY VERY little protein. It's more like a bread than a veggie and meat combo meal. If he is living off of milk, crackers, and baby fruit he will not have normal stools. |
Originally Posted by Live and Learn: I just wish this boy I have would eat anything. anything at all. I feel bad that all he ever wants/gets is milk or rice cereal. |
I forgot to mention in my earlier post that often children with delays can suffer texture/oral aversion issues. Likely if he has something else going on and WILL NOT eat anything but liquid milk with some rice or fruit in it he hasn't developed his palate, tounge, jaw etc to eat appropriately. I had one child with this that had to learn how to eat certain things b/c the textures of many foods would get "lost" in his mouth and he would throw up. Not the kind of kids who dont WANT to eat something so the intentionally puke, this is a real medical DX and can be treated with chewy sticks, oral therapy devices and slow integration of specific textures. Basically these muscles, joints etc have not been used for so long they don't even know how to function anymore. In our area we even have a therapy place that offers classes for kids and parents with just this issue. I would talk to mom about getting a formal eval.
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when are you giving him this milk. I think its time for a food schedual change too. I would sit him down with everyone, offer him a tablespoon of food, and only a little bit of milk in a cup. At snack time offer him water and sit him down to eat, for lunch the same thing. Don't give him a full sippy cup of milk and always offer it after he has eaten something. Its going to take you a bit, but it sounds like this childs eating schedual is off. I've had lots of kids like this, all they do is drink milk all day and eat nothing but junk food.
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I would have not told her no about the bottle but rather: The only way he can have it here is if he has a doctors note for it. Just contact your doctor and have him write me a note saying the child can have it.
That way it's not YOU saying no to her. It will be difficult to get a doc to write that note BUT if she feels that strongly about it then she can fight the fight with the doctor. At least it will force her to bring it up to a person with a medical degree. That's a good thing. She will most likely say they won't do it over the phone and she has to take him in. Tell her that the food program lady MUST be right and this must be a big issue for them to require an office visit for it. :eek::eek: This is just one of those "the parents can't give you permission to do the wrong thing". Having a cereal bottle for a two year old only works when the PARENT is doing it. She can't give permission for someone else to do it. The easiest thing for her to do is to leave your day care. That way she can either have grandma do it or whoever she hires agree to it without a doc note upon hiring them. Just be prepared for her to scoot on down the road. When parents do these kind of things it is VERY valuable to them. If she is crying over it it most likely means that this is something that brings her a lot of easy and switching child care is WAY easier than saying no to a two year old. |
hmmmmm......
I would not talk to Mom about it anymore. I would offer the child a sippy cup and small bits of healthy finger foods at each regularly scheduled meal and snack time. I would not offer the bottle with cereal AT ALL. It is filling him up and that is why he refuses to try anything else. If you keep offering him the regular foods and not the bottle, in time he will realize it's this or nothing. I have never known or heard of a child who will literally starve rather than trying the new foods. You may haver to put the bits of food in his mouth at first for awhile, just so he gets the idea, but he will eventually eat. Mom doesn't want to hear what you have to say. She has made that clear. Telling her to do anything is not going to work. Seems that she wants her "baby" to be just that, a "baby" still. I'd do what is right for the child on my watch, and when he actually starts trying and enjoying new foods, I'd take some photos, journal what he's been eating and give it to Mom. Another thing, your food program specialist cannot tell you or the Mom that the child cannot have a bottle. Mom can give the kid a bottle til' he's a teenager if she wants to. You can give him a bottle as well. The only thing the food program specialist can say or do is recommend not giving a bottle, requiring that you provide the foods that meet food pattern guidelines, but she cannot say that you cannot serve his drink in a bottle. Not that it really matters, as I wouldn't give him a bottle anyway, but FP has no authority to say you cannot give a bottle. Also, you can certainly contact children's protective services and get their opinion without actually reporting first. They'll tell you if you should report it. |
Originally Posted by Crystal: Nannyde- The bottles with "cereal" were thick and white, like it was just milk and rice. No brown flecks. I still think that if that is ALL he gets at home it could cause the loose stools. Today at drop-off, she said that he didn't bring a bottle. I said I'm sure he'll do fine since he only chewed on it anyways. I told her that for the past couple weeks I was putting milk in a cup for him. He barely drank any, but at least he didn't just chew on it. She said it's probably going to be harder on her than on him. At lunch time, I told the kids to come sit down to eat. Everyone ran in and was so excited. He stood there and cried. After he sat down, I gave him a bowl with some cut up lasagna. He hit it away instantly. Then he pushes everyone else's bowls away. Everyone ate, and I put his bowl on the counter so it wouldn't end up on the floor. I later got him to take one bite. He acted like he didn't know how to chew!! He just let it sit there, then started screaming, then puked. Wow. I don't even know what to do anymore. I offer every day, and everyday he throws this huge fit. Do I ask mom to pack a lunch for a day to see if that makes him eat? I'd be curious to see what she would pack. If it's all junk then how do I tell her that I'll start offering my food again? |
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:eek: I would not have her provide food because it will be all baby food and gummy worms.:eek:
Keep doing what you are doing but just put a bite at a time in front of him. Maybe start with nice sweet carrots or even peaches. See if you can get him used to eating SOMETHING healthy at your house. I think for the time being it is ok to feed him like you would a much younger child until he gets the hang of feeding himself. :)Stick it out for a couple more weeks.:) Let's see how things improve.:) I know you can help this lil guy out.:) :)NO PUREES AND NO BOTTLES THOUGH!:) Good luck. Poor lil guy. |
My food program lady said that is one of their "rules." That at 2 years of age he needs to be drinking from a cup. If I don't follow their rules, I will get booted from their program, which means I'll have to charge all parents more because I can't afford all of that food! She said the food program is not just about eating, it's about forming good eating habits, good mouth muscle tone (which Nannyde covered) and proper eating skills for their age. It teaches a lot of hand-eye coordination as well.
First, let me say, I hope you don't think I am being offensive....it is not my intent. I understand this isn't really the topic at hand, but I don't believe your FP specialist. I agree part of the point is to teach proper eating and forming good habits, but they CANNOT tell you that a two year old CANNOT have a bottle. I'd ask her to show me in writing the rule she is referrinf too. If I was Mom and I wanted my child to have a bottle, I'd insist on seeing it. I just looked at the CACFP website and cannot find anything in the regs that state this. I agree he should not have a bottle, children do not get a bottle from me here after their first birthday. But it really isn't anybody else's business if Mom wants to give her child a bottle. |
I'm mean, I wouldn't have fed him, thats fine that he didn't want to eat, but a) he would not be allowed to touch other peoples food and b) he would have to sit there and watch the others eat. I don't believe in letting the child go and play while everyone eats, not my problem that he wants to be stubborn but I don't allow a child tell me what he can and cannot do. Also, if he didn't want to eat, then give him some water in a sippy cup, I would not allow milk, he's playing a game now, he knows if he screams and pukes that you'll feel sorry for him and give him milk, I don't play games like this.
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Originally Posted by countrymom: I think this kid has a serious eating disorder. I think he needs to be managed by highly experienced people who have the knowledge to work with him gradually to accept food. It's a long long long road and it takes a lot of time and money. If he pukes at the sight of food he has something seriously wrong with him. It's not a manipulation. |
Originally Posted by nannyde: |
Does the OP know for sure that he eats and plays happily at home or is this info from the parent? I have a special needs child here and her mom lied (I guess unintentionally?) about tons of stuff before finally getting this little girl evaluated and admitting that things were not as she portrayed.
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Originally Posted by Country Kids: His "play" could be an adult holding, walking, rocking, one to oneing him while he plays. He definitely needs medical care and an assessment. I think it's way past behavioral. I wouldn't discipline him in any way and I wouldn't associate his behavior with any willfullness or intent. I think he's a sick little guy. |
how sad. :( In this situation it does appear as though something else is going on, with all the delays listed. I would NOT mention any specific potential diagnosis (ie. autism) even if you choose to encourage the parents to seek some intervention regarding the delays (leave that to the DR. imo.)
If there were no delays I would put the child at the table and give him the same food and drink as other two year olds and if he doesn't eat, fine. Obviously this case sounds different. I will not give a bottle after a year, even if the parent asks. (Will help to wean off of it of course.) If there are random circumstances or Dr. says to do it for whatever reason that is different. Please keep us posted! |
Originally Posted by Crystal: I think its a mute point about whether the FP allows bottles. No educated professional would actually allow a two year old (without a med dx) to eat from a bottle simply b/c they refused to do it any other way. |
moms only see one kid- theirs
Partner up with Momma here, and let her know that you are going to work with her and her kiddo. Don't fall back on the food program rules...have a real heart to heart talk about the fact that he is not eating anything with you and you just don't feel good about his developmental stages on any of the other levels - if he is really unhappy with your place or crowd - you understand if they'd like to try a few places out, but you don't think that is it (unless you do). That takes the pressure off both of you.
Then, do a food journal and food introduction plan - agree with mom to introduce the same new foods at home and in care, document together (send the notebook back and forth with him) and look for patterns and room for improvement. Try to keep it a group effort so the newness isn't just in your zone. Confer again after a few weeks and decide together to look for assessment options that might be free, and consider recommending a ped you trust. Above all, be really warm and friendly with him and with mom in front of him. Make sure she is comfortable and showing him that she is. He needs to know you guys are friends who care about him together. |
Originally Posted by Crystal: either way - food program rules or not - this child shouldn't be on a bottle. so, if the "food program won't allow it" line works on the mom - all the better. |
Originally Posted by Crystal: |
Originally Posted by QualiTcare: His dad and I had a good talk about his eating habits. He said that he eats well with a fork and spoon at home. He told me some of his favorite things, and that he doesn't like tomatoes. That may be part of the problem...I cook with tomatoes quite often. I asked if there was a reason they give him cereal in a bottle. He said it helps him sleep longer at night, and that they will continue feeding it at night but I do not need to do it here. Hopefully that will mean he won't come filled up on that and will want to start eating. I'm glad him and I had that talk. Now I'm confident that the boy is eating at home. Now we just need to work on his communication and social skills. :) |
Originally Posted by Unregistered: |
:) I am glad that you and the daddy had a heart to heart. :)
:) Just curious..... what does he like to eat at home? :) |
If the parents don't have insurance, contact the local school district and see what opportunities they have for diagnosing and helping this child with his developmental delays.
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Originally Posted by Unregistered: I agree that the child shouldn't have a bottle, especially as his main source of nutrition. My whole point is that I wouldn't have told Mom FP said this, because then Mom COULD challenge it if she wanted too. |
Originally Posted by littlemommy: BTW....other than saying you cannot give this child a bottle or you'll get booted from the FP, did this FP specialist give you any REAL advice on how to help this child? THAT is her job, really. |
Originally Posted by littlemommy: This cannot just be done "cold turkey" - he is attached to his bottle and it is his largest source of nutrition. What if he doesn't eat or drink? Hopefully he will, but from the issues you have described, it's not likely. I wouldn't want to be responsible for caring for a child who refuses to eat or drink anything.....bad things can happen. |
Originally Posted by Crystal: And yes, my food program specialist did give me other advice. She told me that if i suspect he is being neglected and not fed at home, that I need to report it. After talking to his father, I'm confident that he IS eating at home. I'm going to keep offering new foods every day, and hopefully he will start to feel comfortable enough to eat. I think a major part of it is his lack of socialization. The only people he's EVER been with are his parents and grandmother. He has never been around other kids his age, or other kids in general! He's definitely taking a long time to adjust to daycare, but I think that is normal for a 2 year old that has never been put in situations to meet other people. I talked to his mom yesterday again about the dangers of the bottle at his age. She said that she's been wanting to get him off of it but it's just "easier." She knows that it can cause damage to his teeth, and said that it will be much more of an adjustment for HER than for HIM. I'm really NOT worried about it being a problem here. He never drank from it anyways because after seeing that he didn't even drink from it, I would give him a cup. |
Originally Posted by Live and Learn: |
:) Is he in a high chair? :)
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Originally Posted by littlemommy: if it is a social issue and he's not comfy sitting with the other kids, is it possible to sit him at a small table off to the side by himself, where maybe you can sit one on one with him for awhile? That might help. |
Originally Posted by Crystal: |
I really hope that the father is being honest with you.
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Originally Posted by littlemommy: |
How are things going with this now?
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Originally Posted by sharlan: I didn't let him spit it out yesterday because I don't want him to get into that bad habit. On yesterday's menu, we had pork roast, stewed onions and asparagus, and macaroni salad. Today was spaghetti, sweet potatoes, and apples. He's drinking fine from a sippy cup. |
Originally Posted by littlemommy: That said, I also agree with Crystal about how you should handle this situation. No bottle, finger food and cups only. He'll eat. |
He's still a relatively new kid to you so I would keep pushing for progress as you have been. If his other skills don't improve within another couple weeks, I suggest contacting your school district and having him evaluated to be on the safe side. In the mean time, I'd print off a check list of skills he should be doing and have dad fill it out so you know the skills he displays at home. I'm guessing that a lot of his behaviors stem from being new to daycare and he just needs extra time to warm up to the other kids. Also being nearly two he's probably developing independence at home and hasn't figured out how to deal with the separation. At home he's pushing for more independence and then he's sent off to daycare away from everyone he's know thus far and might be viewing it as punishment for trying to be independent. He doesn't know what's going on, he just knows he doesn't like it. I think a lot of it stems from separation anxiety. Give him as much love as possible and he'll come out eventually.
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Originally Posted by littlemommy: He may also have sensory issues. He really needs an evaluation. |
One more thought.....If at all possible, I would try to give him more opportunities to try foods. I know it's difficult to meet special needs, especially with food, but I think if he gets more "practice" with putting food in his mouth, he will get better at eating. You could actually make food part of your curriculum and try out a new food each day for a couple of weeks. Make a BIG deal about it and how great it is. See how he responds.
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Originally Posted by littlemommy: |
"Littlemommy" - I think you've done tremendously with this little guy. I, too, happen to think he's got problems. poor kid.
Keep working with him. |
Originally Posted by Country Kids: |
Originally Posted by Candyland: |
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