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-   -   Sick Kids From A Physician's View (https://www.daycare.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71946)

saved4always 06-25-2014 05:43 AM

Originally Posted by mountainside13:
Great post NannyD!


Parent picks up sick child from DC goes to doctor irritated about leaving work, parent complains about DC, Doctor writes article. :lol::rolleyes:

I will not post on her FB...so difficult!

Yep! This is exactly how her article happened!

nannyde 06-25-2014 06:00 AM

I don't get why the docs just don't get out of the business of writing them. The docs are educated. They want their cake and eat it too. They want the quick office visit and the happy customer who gets the note.

If they did just the visit and no note the parent would stop coming to them with the minor illness. That would hurt their bottom line.

It takes TIME to counsel a parent on transmission of illness, how many sick days to plan on for the average kid, and warning to be frugal with the days the parent takes off. Those are icky convos and they are going to have to sit thru the crying and pissed off arguments they WILL get when this generation gets a no.

That is exactly why they get in the middle of it. Get in... get out.... get paid.

allsmiles 06-25-2014 07:54 AM

i am REALLY appallled by this seeing that I am a new provider (2 years) and my trying to be flixible and helpful to parents work schedule and accepting excuses caused a spread of stomach virus and a few pink eye cases in my daycare and family. In both cases once i FINALLY insisted the parent go to the dr for something they felt was allergies or growth spurt, the child turned out to be sick. By the time i got my backbone and enforced what STATE REGULATIONS required, it was too late.

Now I understand a note sometimes seems a waste of time to him, but as someone else said before I require a note only after a long stint of symptoms and nobody has had to bring back one yet WHY? because the child WAS sick

nannyde 06-25-2014 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by allsmiles:
i am REALLY appallled by this seeing that I am a new provider (2 years) and my trying to be flixible and helpful to parents work schedule and accepting excuses caused a spread of stomach virus and a few pink eye cases in my daycare and family. In both cases once i FINALLY insisted the parent go to the dr for something they felt was allergies or growth spurt, the child turned out to be sick. By the time i got my backbone and enforced what STATE REGULATIONS required, it was too late.

Now I understand a note sometimes seems a waste of time to him, but as someone else said before I require a note only after a long stint of symptoms and nobody has had to bring back one yet WHY? because the child WAS sick

I was thinking back on the last year or two and I can only think of twice when I asked for a diagnosis from a doc. Both were breathing issues and one I was right and one was nothing.

The one I was wrong.was a tiny newborn and he was making a breath sound I had NEVER heard before. It scared the be$hit out of me. The parents brought him right back and the doc was right. There was nothing wrong. I just didn't know what else to do.

Other than that I haven't asked for doc visits. If the parent asks me what I would do then I tell them what I would do as a mom. As a child care provider, I only ask for a visit if it's serious.

Now I have had LEGIONS of times where parents have taken their kid in to undo an exclusion. Countless. I have even had sick kids I didn't exclude who have been taken to the doc on Sunday to get a note so they could come Monday with excludable illnesses.

I tell the parent the same thing... if the kid has x symptoms they are excluded regardless if they are concomitant with allergies, teething, blocked tear duct, or ear infection.

Sugar Magnolia 06-25-2014 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
She seems extremely anti-daycare.

She can afford nanny care. And for those that can't......let them eat cake. That logic worked really well for Marie Antoinette, didn't it?

KiddieCahoots 06-25-2014 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by Lucy:


"Already I get lots of parents complaining about how daycare makes their kids sick -- and it's absolutely true that kids in daycare are more likely to get viral illnesses than those who aren't.

But... that's not all bad. There's plenty of research these days to suggest that getting a few illnesses as a young child ends up being good for you in the long run. It helps to strengthen the immune system. And since very often we are contagious before we even realize we are sick, kids (and staff) are getting exposed anyway."
says it all.

I grew up with my mom doing DC before I was even born. She and Dad, as well as us kids, were exposed to all kinds of c.r.a.p. While I concede the fact that maybe good genes are part of the reason, I still say that it's BECAUSE of being exposed to all the c.r.a.p. that NONE of us are ones to get sick more than once every 10 years. I've done DC 20 years, and have called off twice - about 15 years apart. And only for one day each.

Not flaming you ;)
Just saying that you and your family were lucky to have the exposure to germs work for you.
My first three were around before I did day care and are healthy as horses.
My last two that were present while I did day care, were sick when they started school, even to the point of being held back for absences, and are still always sick.
Exposure to germs can still go both ways, and think your more correct about the good genes factor, vs. that doctors article.

craftymissbeth 06-25-2014 01:36 PM

Not sure why she singled out my comment as the one to respond to. :rolleyes:

I want her to respond to the other issues with her article.

Blackcat31 06-25-2014 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
Not sure why she singled out my comment as the one to respond to. :rolleyes:

I want her to respond to the other issues with her article.

link please.......:D

craftymissbeth 06-25-2014 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
link please.......:D

Oh, it's the Facebook link from the first page of this thread. I THINK one of the Vaca ladies posted it ;)

nanglgrl 06-25-2014 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
Not sure why she singled out my comment as the one to respond to. :rolleyes:

I want her to respond to the other issues with her article.

I thought that was odd also. She's just going to keep responding by rewording what she said in the article and is too full of herself to admit otherwise. She said that she knows when parents are lying by the exam, I call bull. Even a 20 minute exam isn't going to show if the parent gave the child fever meds and besides that she doesn't know these people, at least not like we do, and you can't tell if people are lying until you've gotten to know their regular habits of speaking and acting. I wish she'd respond to nanny d but she can't because nanny was spot on and there is no response other than "I never thought of it that way" which this woman would never say.

nannyde 06-25-2014 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by nanglgrl:
I thought that was odd also. She's just going to keep responding by rewording what she said in the article and is too full of herself to admit otherwise. She said that she knows when parents are lying by the exam, I call bull. Even a 20 minute exam isn't going to show if the parent gave the child fever meds and besides that she doesn't know these people, at least not like we do, and you can't tell if people are lying until you've gotten to know their regular habits of speaking and acting. I wish she'd respond to nanny d but she can't because nanny was spot on and there is no response other than "I never thought of it that way" which this woman would never say.

I can't see where she has responded to the Facebook comments. Is there other comments?

If she can tell when the parents are lying then she is in the wrong profession. A human lie detector makes way more money than a Dr.

daycare 06-25-2014 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by nannyde:
I can't see where she has responded to the Facebook comments. Is there other comments?

If she can tell when the parents are lying then she is in the wrong profession. A human lie detector makes way more money than a Dr.

lol coffee just came out my nose.......................

Blackcat31 06-25-2014 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by NeedaVaca:
Everyone should share their opinions with the Dr! Here is the Facebook link :)

https://www.facebook.com/ClaireMcCarthyMD

Originally Posted by nannyde:
I can't see where she has responded to the Facebook comments. Is there other comments?

If she can tell when the parents are lying then she is in the wrong profession. A human lie detector makes way more money than a Dr.

I clicked the link in the above post and on the right side are all the comments

No log in necessary

nannyde 06-25-2014 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I clicked the link in the above post and on the right side are all the comments

No log in necessary

Found it....

TwinKristi 06-25-2014 03:50 PM

It's kinda crazy I know, but I do NOT trust drs. There is too much liability in it for them so they cover their butt every chance they get. This dr's POV almost proves it even more. They don't see anything wrong with having a contagious illness in my daycare and will voluntarily send the parent with a note releasing them back with sympathy that their big bad DCP won't let little Timmy come back with a green snotty nose and goopy eyes.
I have been told SO many different lies by different doctors over the years its hard for me to trust any of them. I trust our own pediatrician more than probably any other doctor I've known but even he admits he's made mistakes! Recently I requested a doctor's note for a DCB before returning because he had these sores on his mouth and they looked awful. Mom kept him home and everything but the dr released him with a note that was so stupid... "Johnny can return when his sores are no longer active"... Uh DUH! LOL That didn't really tell me anything! I already told her that to begin with. They had done a culture but didn't know what it was at that point. Of course that was a new client's first week and his first day back the sores were scabbed up and almost gone but his face still looked tore up from the sore scars. Ugh! They were like "ummm... what's up with the..." and points to their mouth while looking at little Johnny. I assured them that it wasn't contagious and that he was released back to care and had been out an entire week before. I also assured them of my illness exclusion policy and that I had just sent another DCG home sick with a fever and lethargy. I don't do it often, but when I do it's for a good reason. Why should this dr make such a large and ignorant blanket statement which then gives these entitled parents already pushing the limits with illnesses another excuse to bring their kids and then refuse to take them! This Dr is setting herself up for some serious backlash! I saw the FB page but wasn't signed in. I read the comments and she tries to backstep and say "minor illnesses"... well HELLO? Who is excluding for minor illnesses?? Most professionals have an illness policy in place and do allow for minor illnesses! But to say a feverish child should be at childcare is ridiculous! :mad:

craftymissbeth 06-25-2014 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by TwinKristi:
It's kinda crazy I know, but I do NOT trust drs. There is too much liability in it for them so they cover their butt every chance they get. This dr's POV almost proves it even more. They don't see anything wrong with having a contagious illness in my daycare and will voluntarily send the parent with a note releasing them back with sympathy that their big bad DCP won't let little Timmy come back with a green snotty nose and goopy eyes.
I have been told SO many different lies by different doctors over the years its hard for me to trust any of them. I trust our own pediatrician more than probably any other doctor I've known but even he admits he's made mistakes! Recently I requested a doctor's note for a DCB before returning because he had these sores on his mouth and they looked awful. Mom kept him home and everything but the dr released him with a note that was so stupid... "Johnny can return when his sores are no longer active"... Uh DUH! LOL That didn't really tell me anything! I already told her that to begin with. They had done a culture but didn't know what it was at that point. Of course that was a new client's first week and his first day back the sores were scabbed up and almost gone but his face still looked tore up from the sore scars. Ugh! They were like "ummm... what's up with the..." and points to their mouth while looking at little Johnny. I assured them that it wasn't contagious and that he was released back to care and had been out an entire week before. I also assured them of my illness exclusion policy and that I had just sent another DCG home sick with a fever and lethargy. I don't do it often, but when I do it's for a good reason. Why should this dr make such a large and ignorant blanket statement which then gives these entitled parents already pushing the limits with illnesses another excuse to bring their kids and then refuse to take them! This Dr is setting herself up for some serious backlash! I saw the FB page but wasn't signed in. I read the comments and she tries to backstep and say "minor illnesses"... well HELLO? Who is excluding for minor illnesses?? Most professionals have an illness policy in place and do allow for minor illnesses! But to say a feverish child should be at childcare is ridiculous! :mad:

I agree. And honestly, I don't even trust ds's pediatrician all that much. We only go when I know something is really wrong or if I simply need his advice for my own piece of mind. He asks leading questions, too. Actually, now that I think about it every doctor I'VE had has pretty much asked me what I think is wrong and what I'd like to do to fix it.

It makes me wonder if this is simply how doctors run their businesses... a parent shows up, tells them what they just KNOW is wrong, the doctor confirms it (whether it's true or not), parent pays the fees, and that's all she wrote.

TwinKristi 06-25-2014 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
I agree. And honestly, I don't even trust ds's pediatrician all that much. We only go when I know something is really wrong or if I simply need his advice for my own piece of mind. He asks leading questions, too. Actually, now that I think about it every doctor I'VE had has pretty much asked me what I think is wrong and what I'd like to do to fix it.

It makes me wonder if this is simply how doctors run their businesses... a parent shows up, tells them what they just KNOW is wrong, the doctor confirms it (whether it's true or not), parent pays the fees, and that's all she wrote.

See, that's where our Ped is different! lovethis He really doesn't just care about the bottom line of money making. He has gone above and beyond to help our family in times of need. We have had serious illnesses with one of my sons and I can tell the difference in his face from "yep he's got a cold/strep/flu" to "let's bring in the pulse-oximeter" or when he asks him to say certain things while listening to his lungs. He knows me well at this point, we've gone to him on and off for 15.5yrs now. I don't just want an Rx and a note to return to work. He knows I want my child to get BETTER!! I have taken in an ex-DCB numerous times because I was concerned about him and mom wasn't. I could always tell when he was sick by his eyes getting red and puffy and he would always run a low grade fever. One time I insisted on him being seen and told her I would take him myself if I needed to and he was SO sick! :( I could tell immediately our dr was worried. He's called me at home after hours, he asks my mom how we're doing when he sees her, my dh has worked for him in his home as an electrician. I just love the man!! I really despise most drs but he has a special place in my heart. BUT his partner is an idiot!! She is the type to just write a note and say "oh he's ok to go to daycare" when he isn't!! I cannot stand her! I can't tell him that though!! LOL :o

SignMeUp 06-25-2014 04:46 PM

These stories are what made me think of the anti- antibiotic class I took a few years ago. This training made it sound as if providers were insisting that doctors provide antibiotics. Even if they were - what doctor would provide a prescription because a provider demanded it?
It sounds more like some doctors need to grow some integrity and some backbone and not prescribe something unless it should be prescribed. And not give in to the demands of parents for a "return" note to child care unless that is called for either.
Sure, parents are caught between a rock and a hard place sometimes. Work, sick child, it's not easy. But that does not mean that a sick child belongs in group care.

Hunni Bee 06-25-2014 06:29 PM

*sigh*

All this is, is another person who feels as though daycare, especially home daycare, shouldn't operate as actual businesses, but rather some sort of benevolent goodwill organization that seeks ease every wrinkle in the parents brow...by offering special.

And now in society, because you all are clearly overtaxing and weakening the health care system by not taking care of sick children. How could such benevolent public laborers behind such a dastardly situation?

Did she ever think about the fact that if a dc provider takes care of one really sick kid, she will undoubtedly will be taking care of two or more very soon, and with the cycles of terming and enrolling, kids will be sick in this daycare all the time? Maybe not in all cases, but you get the idea. Then she'll be writing an article describing how daycare are melting pots of disease, if she hasn't already.

Bottom line, we are not in business of taking care of sick kids unless we are. It shouldn't be forced on us.

As a parent as well, my kids health is my job. Like BC said, these illnesses would not knock these kids out if they were healthier to begin with. My 11 month old was born two months premature, and has attended daycare since three months. Outside of RSV and a couple tummy bugs, she has not been nearly as ill in her first year as i was told she would be. I do everything i can to bolster her immune system and I don't fill her with meds every time she gets a little sniffle, nor do I run to the ER constantly. It's called parenting

This woman is backward.

Littleplanet 06-26-2014 07:34 PM

I know this is an older post but I thought I would share my experience with HFM that went crazy through my daycare.
June 2014.
On a Monday, a parent brought a child in with a rash that he woke up with. She thought it was bug bites, which it did look like. He was miserable all day and I told her it didn't look like bug bites. On Tuesday, she said she thought it was Poison Ivy. She gave him an oatmeal bath the night before and it seemed to help him. No fever and it did look like poison Ivy. (I should have said to keep him home then) Wednesday, my husband called-he stayed overnight for work and said he thought he might have what the child had so I called the mom and told her she needed to take her son to the dr because whatever it was, it must be contagious. She said she had called the dr the night before and they told her to bring him in the next morning. she was still going to bring him over and call for an appointment. I told her no he had to be seen first. So, she takes him to the dr. It was HFM but not contagious anymore. She brought him back to the daycare and he stayed the rest of the week with blisters and tons of bumps. But the dr said he was fine. Now, with no experience with this before I let him stay.
Friday comes and my 20 year old daughter who works with me, gets a sore throat and becomes very sick on Sat. We suspect she has it. Then I get it, my 23 year old son gets it on Sunday. I call the daycare families and tell them we are closed until Wed because we all have it. We go to the dr. on Tuesday, can't get in until then. And the dr. closes us down until the following Monday. Now, my 20 and 23 year olds get it really bad with the blisters in the mouth, on the hands and feet and it is very itchy and very painful. I have spots and mouth blisters and then my 24 year old comes down with it. My husband did in fact have it, which at first the dr. told him he had an allergic reaction. So, my whole family came down with it even though we washed our hands and disinfected everything. We lost over 1200 dollars that week because a dr. told us the first child was not contagious and he was.
June 26th. My daughter is still healing from this. Her hands and feet and peeling. I have never seen anything like this before. I also had to tell a family they had to stay out the next week because they had the signs for it.
I learned a huge lesson this past month. No rashes are allowed to come in until seen by a dr. I'm not even sure the drs. know what they are talking about on this.
Just thought I would share since it is very contagious.

Josiegirl 06-27-2014 03:17 AM

Impetigo, scabies, bronchiolitis, stomach bugs, chicken pox(back in the day), not to mention all the green nosed colds and common viruses; these are just a few of the things that have gone through my daycare in the past 30 years. Some kids have had to be hospitalized for the exposures, even my own 18 month old(broke my heart watching her walk down the corridors hitched to an IV and the mother of the sick child she caught it from WAS a doctor!!). I once told a part time dcm that chicken pox was going around and asked if that was a concern. She chose to keep her child out of daycare until the incubation period was well over. Why? Because she was also caring part time for a child with leukemia that absolutely could not be exposed.

There is more to an illness than us simply sending home a child with a green nose. There is so much more to consider. This doctor is taking it all out of context and not thinking of long term ramifications, how it could filter down and cause other problems within other families.

I am not one to exclude over a couple loose poops, or a green nose but if that same child won't get up off the couch, eat, join in at all, then home with a loving parent who has time to care for them, is obviously where they need and want to be.

Wouldn't schools do the same thing? Who can nurse a child when there are other children to care for? And what is fair about exposing all the other children, plus families, plus who knows who else they touch along the way to wellness??? And most of all, how is that fair to the sick child? Isn't taking care of a sick child part of raising a child, part of showing you care about a child? How does that child feel when they're shoved off to school or daycare, sick as a dog, nobody to really care for them??? THESE are the kinds of caring acts we do as parents. It's not necessary to buy them McDonalds or a tv for their bedroom or all the toys in the world....but what is necessary is showing them you care enough to love, nurture, take care of them. We do what we can as providers but we are NOT their parents.

Idiot doctor.

KidGrind 06-27-2014 05:15 AM

Originally Posted by Littleplanet:
I know this is an older post but I thought I would share my experience with HFM that went crazy through my daycare.
June 2014.
On a Monday, a parent brought a child in with a rash that he woke up with. She thought it was bug bites, which it did look like. He was miserable all day and I told her it didn't look like bug bites. On Tuesday, she said she thought it was Poison Ivy. She gave him an oatmeal bath the night before and it seemed to help him. No fever and it did look like poison Ivy. (I should have said to keep him home then) Wednesday, my husband called-he stayed overnight for work and said he thought he might have what the child had so I called the mom and told her she needed to take her son to the dr because whatever it was, it must be contagious. She said she had called the dr the night before and they told her to bring him in the next morning. she was still going to bring him over and call for an appointment. I told her no he had to be seen first. So, she takes him to the dr. It was HFM but not contagious anymore. She brought him back to the daycare and he stayed the rest of the week with blisters and tons of bumps. But the dr said he was fine. Now, with no experience with this before I let him stay.
Friday comes and my 20 year old daughter who works with me, gets a sore throat and becomes very sick on Sat. We suspect she has it. Then I get it, my 23 year old son gets it on Sunday. I call the daycare families and tell them we are closed until Wed because we all have it. We go to the dr. on Tuesday, can't get in until then. And the dr. closes us down until the following Monday. Now, my 20 and 23 year olds get it really bad with the blisters in the mouth, on the hands and feet and it is very itchy and very painful. I have spots and mouth blisters and then my 24 year old comes down with it. My husband did in fact have it, which at first the dr. told him he had an allergic reaction. So, my whole family came down with it even though we washed our hands and disinfected everything. We lost over 1200 dollars that week because a dr. told us the first child was not contagious and he was.
June 26th. My daughter is still healing from this. Her hands and feet and peeling. I have never seen anything like this before. I also had to tell a family they had to stay out the next week because they had the signs for it.
I learned a huge lesson this past month. No rashes are allowed to come in until seen by a dr. I'm not even sure the drs. know what they are talking about on this.
Just thought I would share since it is very contagious.


Thanks for sharing! You made me realize how lucky I am. In May, one of my parents called to tell me DCK had HFM. I told her no return until oozing had stopped. I went into bleach clean Queen mode. I cleaned and cleaned and then cleaned again. Some DCFs were like whatever when I gave them notice and others went bonkers.

Not one of my DCKs came down with it nor any of my own family. THANK GOD!

Unregistered 06-27-2014 07:01 AM

I had one too. First momsaid he was soo sick and would be out all week. Next day she calls to say he will be there "BECAUSE DOC SAID IT IS ONLY HFM"!

I held my ground and said no. Doc and mom came up with three more diagnoses over that week:
It might be infected mosquito bites, or ringworm, or lyme disease :o

i said no daycare until whatever it is is scabbed over. I have a little baby in care, besides all the other kids. No one caught it, whatever it was.

so - diagnosis I will take into consideration. But I will exclude by using the big picture.

nanglgrl 06-27-2014 08:22 AM

I had a dck come down with HFM and was around my child and another dck for just enough time for them to catch it. She was fine in the a.m., starting showing symptoms, was sent home within an hour and within a few days my child and the dck came down with it. I decided to close for a week so I could give my child the attention he needed. He was really uncomfortable and not eating much and the dck got it so bad he had to be hospitalized because he couldn't drink or eat. None of my other dck's got it. This is one of the reasons I hate the whole "they've already been exposed" argument. Don't they realize that every child is not in daycare every day or that even if they are all there together it doesn't necessarily mean they touched a toy or item that the sick child touched. Letting sick children come to daycare basically guarantees exposure and that the majority if not all of the children will come down with the illness. Maybe the article is just Dr. Quacks way of guaranteeing income.

KiddieCahoots 06-27-2014 10:23 AM

Well the saying goes...."all publicity is good publicity"
This doctor just got all of our attention.

Either she's very clever or very ignorant.

I have a very ignorant doctor story.
Had a family of 3 siblings. They supposedly had genetically small tear ducts. They shared pink eye back and forth for 9 months straight, (especially one of the children in particular), and yes I had also caught it at one point.
My other clients were not happy, and one family threatened to find other child care accommodations if I didn't rectify the situation.
Throughout those 9 months, I received over a dozen doctor notes giving clearance for return.
The horrible treatment I heard mom describe she was receiving from the doctor's office was constant, the story was always changing too, making it difficult to understand.
To the point that mom had informed me that the doctor wanted to talk with me, but mom would not carry through and sign medical/confidential release for me to do so.
I had enough, and regardless of my family resource telling me I had to accept the doctor's letter of return, threatened termination. Mom had backed herself into a corner with story inconsistencies, and finally took my advice to see my pediatrician. Who is great! Would not provide mom with notes, sent her child to the specialist, and the problem was solved.

Why did mom do this? Because mom was not taking the children to the recommended specialist and playing the doctor office and day care against each other to buy her time. Because she could not take the time off to accommodate the necessary time off needed for 1 of her children to obtain opening of the tear duct surgery, (this child was the main culprit of the pink eye). They had already taken two vacations in a 6 month time frame, (both times to Disney Land), otherwise she would lose her state voucher, and possibly her job. Which in the end, she did lose her voucher for abusing the system.

There is more to the story, but my point is......
This doctor was ignorant and instead of insist that mom have her child seen by the specialist to end the problem, fell for this particular mom's devastating plight of a day care needing notes, making it difficult for her job, and voucher, and continually supplied her with notes, possibly like the good doctor that wrote this article.

NightOwl 06-27-2014 04:14 PM

The good doctor had finally responded on Facebook....


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