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Interested 08-22-2007 03:09 PM

Charging on Holidays
 
Is it legal to charge for day care for days the children are not at day care or days the day care close because of weather or holidays.:(

Michael 08-22-2007 03:16 PM

Charging for Holidays and Bad Weather
 
Most facilities have something in writing that describes services rendered. Make sure you ask when first interviewing the facility. Most will charge a flat daily/weekly/monthly rate that will not result in any reduction because of bad weather, holidays, staff vacations etc. Most are private businesses and it is up to you to make sure that you inquire before paying.

Unregistered 09-19-2007 09:46 AM

Yes it is legal.
Why should you get paid for holidays and not us?

Unregistered 10-04-2007 01:56 PM

Exactly my thoughts *Interested*
Sometimes I think parents whine more than children. You are paying for the slot, not for the hour. If you want it spelled out.... you have a yearly flat rate. It is broken down for your convenience. Or would you rather pay by the year?? The only thing to change this is what the policy makes exceptions to. Have you ever heard of salary pay? No matter how many hours you work, it is a flat pay. It is the same principle. Got a problem? Start your own day care and see what we are talking about, then maybe you would understand better. If we catered to everyones whims, we would watch your precious for free 24/7.

Unregistered 10-05-2007 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered
Exactly my thoughts *Interested*
Sometimes I think parents whine more than children. You are paying for the slot, not for the hour. If you want it spelled out.... you have a yearly flat rate. It is broken down for your convenience. Or would you rather pay by the year?? The only thing to change this is what the policy makes exceptions to. Have you ever heard of salary pay? No matter how many hours you work, it is a flat pay. It is the same principle. Got a problem? Start your own day care and see what we are talking about, then maybe you would understand better. If we catered to everyones whims, we would watch your precious for free 24/7.

Very well said. Yes, you are paying for the spot, not the hours you use it, unless you EXCEED the hours agreed on.

Unregistered 02-03-2008 10:18 AM

paid holidays
 
Originally Posted by Unregistered
Exactly my thoughts *Interested*
"Sometimes I think parents whine more than children. You are paying for the slot, not for the hour. If you want it spelled out.... you have a yearly flat rate. It is broken down for your convenience. Or would you rather pay by the year?? The only thing to change this is what the policy makes exceptions to. Have you ever heard of salary pay? No matter how many hours you work, it is a flat pay. It is the same principle. Got a problem? Start your own day care and see what we are talking about, then maybe you would understand better. If we catered to everyones whims, we would watch your precious for free 24/7. "

My, you sound like a provider who really doesn't like parents or children... Maybe time to find a new profession? I am a healthcare professional and think it is completely fair to provide my childcare provider for the same paid holidays that most other professionals receive.. These would be Christmas, Thanksgiving, etc.. But, we had one who wanted paid time off for every school vacation day, including the 2 weeks off at Christmas paid! This is an extreme hardship on parents who must pay "double" and find someone else to cover those days. Many of these parents aren't lucky enough to be getting ANY paid holidays of their own... Of the ones who are, only parents who happen to be school teachers are getting as many paid holidays as this childcare provider. (We found someone new). If this woman wants so many paid holidays she should go back to college and get a teaching degree.

Unregistered 02-14-2008 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered
Yes it is legal.
Why should you get paid for holidays and not us?






Daycare home from NorthCarolina.
I like to be fair to my parents, If I am closed due to holidays, my parents are not charged for that day. I am getting paid through subsidy any way for that day, & I am not working, why charge my parents....

AC23 04-09-2008 01:36 PM

If it was in the contract you must honor it or give notice and leave. After seeing what all goes into becoming a provider they deserve these days. Back ground checks, many inspections on safety, fire, public health conducted. Trainings in CPR/First Aid/Rescue breathing along with many other areas to include depending on the state a minimum of 6 or more training hours a year. The list could go on criteria that must be met and the pay that many home providers are much less than someone working in a child care center. For instance a home provider may charge for arguement sake $200 a week for up to 50 hours a week. That breaks down to $4.00 an hour. Gee that means that you or anyone paying that a week is paying less than minimum wage to someone that is watching their child. I think paying for holidays or other closures is more than worth it. I think most people under estimate what goes into child care profession along with the importance of this area. what price tag are you willing to put on your child? I know I wouldn't think twice about paying that or more for my infant. Currently I choose not to work so I can stay home with her because I would rather scrap by than allow my child to be put in child care with someone I don't know.

Unregistered 04-12-2008 08:47 AM

charged for holidays
 
Do you get paid for your holidays? please consider that we have to pay the daycare staff for holidays too! Your getting paid for your holiday and you get the day with your child, huge bonus. If we are to keep our center open we have to have a pro rated system where by the year is broken down to daily manageble amounts. If this did not happen the fee's generally would be higher. Enjoy the holidays with your little one your being paid for it.

Unregistered 05-16-2008 02:20 PM

Considering the average home day care provider works an average of 10.5-12 hours/day with no breaks and no lunch to accommodate the varying needs of her clients I find it essential that she get paid for holidays just as any working professional would. I also think it is important that she get paid for vacations otherwise she might not be able to afford to take them. I don't feel it is healthy for anyone to work those hours 5 days a week and to be financially discouraged from taking vacation and holiday time. Do you really want that unhealthy overworked person caring for your child?

pingaa3 05-17-2008 02:15 PM

10 Paid Holidays
 
I charge for ten paid holidays and I am closed for one week of unpaid holiday during the week of christmas.

New Yearís Day
Memorial Day
Veterans Day
Presidents Day
Independence Day
Thanksgiving Day
Day After Thanksgiving
Good Friday
Labor Day
Week of Christmas (Unpaid)

Please remember that most of us are open M-F a minimum of 7am-5:30pm. That's a 10.5 hour day with no breaks for lunch etc. We don't get sick days. Some of us are open 6am-6pm - 12 hours.

We are not the enemy, we are the people you are trusting with your most precious asset, your children. For our mental health and the best interest of your child some of us take paid holidays.

Thanks,
pingaa3

P.S. Also most of us have children of our own that are off those days too!

Unregistered 05-21-2008 06:43 AM

Because I charge for holidays and when families take time off, does not mean that I don't like my profession and should get another job.

I have been a provider for 9 years. From day 1 I charged whether the child was here or not. We are only allowed so many children, so that is the only way we can do it and survive. Parents get paid holidays, vacations, etc. Why shouldn't we. They only difference is WE have to write it in our handbooks and give it to ourselves. An employee expects this from their employer, correct? As someone said, you are paying for the slot, not the hours used. If you are renting a home and go on vacation for 2 weeks out of a month, your landlord surely won't give you back 2 weeks rent. It is the same for us.

HERE IS WHAT I HAVE IN MY HANDBOOK:


PAYMENT FOR CHILDCARE SERVICES

Payment is expected every Friday, or the last day of the week the child is here.

Rates are guaranteed whether or not you bring your child.

I accept either cash or check. However, there will be a $25 fee for each returned check. You will also be responsible for any charges incurred to my account due to your returned check. I may request cash only payments if there are issues with insufficient fund checks.

Payment obligation is based on the hours you agree to use the childcare services not on actual hours of attendance, unless they exceed the hours contracted.

HOLIDAYS AND VACATIONS

 I WILL BE CLOSED THE FOLLOWING HOLIDAYS:

 New Years Day (or whatever day is celebrated if falls on a weekend day)
 Memorial Day
 July 4 th (or whatever day is celebrated if falls on a weekend day)
 Labor Day
 Thanksgiving and Friday after
 December 24, 25, 26. (Christmas week is subject to change depending on how many people need childcare that week).

 Payment is expected whether the child is here or not. Sick days, vacations, and holidays listed above are included. This includes Christmas week and Thanksgiving week. This applies to part time children also.

 For exampleóif your child is normally here Monday-Wednesday-Friday (3 days per week) and 1 of those days is a holiday, payment is expected for 3 days, should you choose to change your days for the week and bring your child Tuesday-Wednesday-Friday, payment would then be expected for 4 days.

Another exampleóif your child is normally here 3 days per week and one of those days the child is sick, a parent takes a vacation day, or for some other reason does not come, payment is still expected for 3 days.

 I will take 3 weeks vacation through the year. Normally these are taken during the summer, but I reserve the right to take them as needed. There may be times where I will take the vacation days on a Friday or Monday to make a long weekend. I will give you my schedule by April 15 for summer weeks off. I will not charge for my 3 vacation weeks.

 There may be some years I choose to not take 3 weeks vacation off.

PART TIME CHILDREN

If your child is part time, and the days vary from week to week, please provide a schedule for me that covers at least two weeks at a time.

Should your child be on a schedule that varies week to week, there is a three day per week minimum rate. For example--if your child is normally here 3 days per week and 1 week you only need childcare for 1 day, payment will still be expected for 3 days.


MATERNITY LEAVE and EXTENDED SICK LEAVE (parent or child)

I do not offer an unpaid maternity leave or extended sick leave for families because my business and my income are based on my enrollment at all times. I do offer to keep the spot open for you using the following guidelines:

 If your child is here 5 days per week----I will hold the spot open for up to 12 weeks at $40 per week. You may continue to bring your child during these weeks 2 days a week for this rate. If you would like to continue to bring your child more than 2 days per week during this time, the regular daily rate will apply.

 If your child is here 4 days a week -----I will hold the spot open for up to 12 weeks at $35 per week. You may continue to bring your child during these weeks 2 days a week for this rate. If you would like to continue to bring your child more than 2 days during this time, the regular daily rate will apply.

 If your child is here 3 days a week ----I will hold the spot open for up to 12 weeks for $30 per week. You may bring your child 1 day per week at this rate. If you would like to continue to bring your child more than 1 day per week during this time, the regular daily rate will apply.

 If your child is here 2 days a week ----I will hold the spot open for up to 12 weeks for $25 per week. You may bring your child 1 day per week at this rate. If you would like to continue to bring your child more than 1 day per week during this time, the regular daily rate will apply.

 Under the extended sickness policy, full payment is expected for the first 2 consecutive weeks off.

 Full payment for the first 2 consecutive weeks off of maternity leave is not expected because it is a planned leave of absence. If you start a week and then go on maternity leave during the middle of the week, payment is expected at regular rate for that week, and then your hold the spot rate will start the following week.

 If additional time off is needed, please let me know, I am sure we can work out an agreement.

 The hold the spot rates above are based on 1 child per family, it will increase the more children I am holding the spot for.


CHILD SICKNESS

Please do not bring your child if they are sick, vomiting, have diarrhea, have a fever, or may be contagious to other children. If your child becomes ill during childcare hours, I will call you to pick up your child. I do accept children with mild ailments. Please use your best judgment. If you are in doubt, call me and together we will make a joint decision.

While I do not expect a parent to miss work due to colds and mild ailments, I do ask that you send medications to help alleviate the symptoms of colds, runny noses, coughing and sneezing. The constant runny nose, sneezing and coughing is how germs are spread.

A mom 05-23-2008 07:01 AM

Our daycare provider charges only for the days my daughter is physically there so long as we tell them by the Sunday evening of that particular week. So we do not pay for holidays, we do not pay for our vacations, and we don't pay for any days I know in advance that she won't be there. They use this open communication system of scheduling to give their caretakers more flexibility in their own schedules. So no, not all providers charge for the "slot." Some actually charge for the care that is provided.

crazycat97306 05-23-2008 07:27 AM

I personally take 5 holidays off each year as well as a week at the end of summer. I also usually take 3-4 days off throughout the year as sick days. These are days where I am too sick to care for children properly or days when my own kids have something contagious like strep throat. I charge monthly based on 4 weeks in a month. For example, I charge $440 per month per child, based on $110 for 4 weeks. Therefore parents are only paying for 48 weeks a year instead of 52. This allows me to take my time off without having to lose any money. This also means that parents are not paying twice when they have to pay for backup.

Unregistered 06-01-2008 11:38 AM

The daycare provider I use charges a full-time monthly rate. Although I only take my daughter to the provider 3 days/week, I still pay the full-time amount. In addition, I pay on holidays. All of these were in the agreement we signed. I would be curious though, since I ended up in an argument last week with her, others' opinions on the issue of charging me when she takes time off for illness. There have been 3 weeks in the past 6 months that she was out and she continues to charge me (with no backup provider). She states in her pamphlet that she takes 1 week unpaid off each year, however when I asked her about pro-rating the month where she took 1.5 weeks off she became very defensive. She guilt-tripped me, after telling me rudely to keep $50, by then saying "I hope I can pay my bills this month". Needless to say, I left all of the money for her and left crying because I was so frustrated!

Unregistered 06-03-2008 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered
The daycare provider I use charges a full-time monthly rate. Although I only take my daughter to the provider 3 days/week, I still pay the full-time amount. In addition, I pay on holidays. All of these were in the agreement we signed. I would be curious though, since I ended up in an argument last week with her, others' opinions on the issue of charging me when she takes time off for illness. There have been 3 weeks in the past 6 months that she was out and she continues to charge me (with no backup provider). She states in her pamphlet that she takes 1 week unpaid off each year, however when I asked her about pro-rating the month where she took 1.5 weeks off she became very defensive. She guilt-tripped me, after telling me rudely to keep $50, by then saying "I hope I can pay my bills this month". Needless to say, I left all of the money for her and left crying because I was so frustrated!

Once again did you or did you not agree to the terms of the agreement? And knowing that she didn't have a back up, why would you not have your own? If you don't agree to the terms of the agreement, put in notice and leave. I charge a flat rate and whether your child is here or not (by me myself having to take vacation, a holiday or I'm sick) I still expect to be paid! Personally if my provider said she was taking a month off paid to have say surgery, etc. I would put in my notice and find someone else! Its as simple as that!

pingaa3 06-03-2008 06:49 PM

Switch providers

mac60 06-04-2008 02:20 AM

While I do agree that parents need to make sure they understand the providers contract, and if you don't agree to it or don't like it you can move on. I don't agree with "just switch providers". Just like the parents, the providers can get sick, need surgery, etc, and may need to take time off to recoup. Why is it ok for a parent to have surgery, take off 6 weeks, and be guaranteed your job back, yet as providers, your answers are to "switch". Yes, it would be an inconvenience to find a sub for a short amount of time, but it can be done.

I don't believe you should have to pay your provider for the time she is off, but I do believe you should sit down with her and discuss the situation. That is if you like her as a provider and don't want to lose her.

I think it is sad that people are saying "switch" if the provider is taking time off due to sickness/surgery. Parents need to understand that we are human too, if the parent was sick they would expect to be entitled to time off from their employer. If you like the provider, you need to talk with her.

Bottom line, providers are human and get sick, have emergencies, etc. Gees, with my parents, if I "missed" as much work as some of my parents do, I wouldn't have a job.

Unregistered 11-24-2008 08:03 AM

I just called my daycare provider and although my kids are only going to be there for 2 days for the Thanksgiving holiday, they are going to charge me for the full week. This is a complete rip off! I understand that they need to pay their staff for their vacations and all, but they should factor this into the weekly tuition costs. I am already paying an arm and a leg for substandard care to began with.

Finding a better daycare is obsolete at this point. I am in Atlanta, GA, and they have horrible daycare centers in this area. My kids are at one of the better centers out of the 4 that I pulled them out of.

Unregistered 11-25-2008 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 9988)
I just called my daycare provider and although my kids are only going to be there for 2 days for the Thanksgiving holiday, they are going to charge me for the full week. This is a complete rip off! I understand that they need to pay their staff for their vacations and all, but they should factor this into the weekly tuition costs. I am already paying an arm and a leg for substandard care to began with.

Finding a better daycare is obsolete at this point. I am in Atlanta, GA, and they have horrible daycare centers in this area. My kids are at one of the better centers out of the 4 that I pulled them out of.

Well then i guess your just gonna have to feel ripped off then huh!..........Know you know what a rip off is...............taking care of your children for substandard pay!!!!! I'm entitled to charge for holidays and charge for at least 2 personal days. Its funny how the holidays don't ever seem to be a problem until the week of. Any other providers have this problem. I find myself having to break out the contract over and over again.

lilbiddapopcorn 11-26-2008 01:56 AM

Too defensive?
 
I think people need to deal with these issues on a case-by-case basis. Not everyone is in the same situation and there isn't a "one size fits all" answer to this question. It depends on what you signed when you started working with your provider. Some providers omit holiday pay in their contract and then it becomes a problem later. Other times parents sign a contract saying they have no problem with it, and then come time to pay it suddenly becomes a problem. Still others providers (there's an example above) have providers who put something in their contract and then change it later to accommodate themselves (such as taking off x amount of weeks for surgery and asking for full time pay when they stated in their contract they wouldn't do that.) Whatever the situation is, I suggest you first try communicating with your provider/parent. And I can't stress enough that before you sign a contract READ IT and know that you understand it. Ask questions if you don't understand something completely and make sure you're both on the same page. If you don't agree to pay for holidays, find one that doesn't charge for holidays BEFORE you settle down with a provider. Don't sign up with one, complete the contract, and get your kids used to a particular provider and then rip them from one daycare to the next because the holidays came around and you don't want to pay for them.

Unregistered 11-26-2008 10:38 AM

I understand, and can except, paying for a holiday. But paying for the days around a holiday, that I can not understand. I work in retail... ever heard of Black Friday? Well, I have to take that day off to stay home with my kids. This is an unpaid day off, in which I also loose my Holiday pay because my employer does not pay if we take the day before or after off. So, all in all, I am out one day of pay, one holiday pay and I still have to pay for daycare for those two days. This is going to cost me half of my mortgage! We do not have any family in the area, and no other daycare will take them for just one day. Is it really right that I will have to get a aditional part time job (and loose even more time with my kids) in order for my daycare to have a "holiday" that I don't even get? Please, keep in mind that not everyone has subsidized daycare, not everyone gets those days off (or paid off), and not everyone is able to go without large sums of money (especially in this economy). I love my children dearly, and would love to stay home, but we are not able to afford it. We are barely scraping by as it is, hours are shrinking, expenses are going up... how am I to foot the bill for someone to get better benefits than I do?

lilbiddapopcorn 11-29-2008 03:10 AM

Communicate
 
:( I'm sorry for your situation. My contract states that I understand not all parents get holidays off, and i'm willing to work with those who don't. I normally take holidays off (not the day before or after though) and I tell the parents unless they let me know in advance they need care for a holiday I'll assume they don't need it and I take the day off. The only exception here is Christmas Day, I don't provide care that day because I have my own family and I can't see that working out well. Have you tried talking to your provider about your situation? And if he/she's absolutely not going to work with you, maybe you should find someone who can so that you aren't forced to take another part time job. After all, time with your children is priceless...and it's important that the childcare you have for your children works for the provider AND for you.

Hope that helps a little...

CharlesReese 12-23-2008 03:06 PM

Honesty and Integrity
 
I personally don't own a day care, nor do I ever plan on it. However, I do understand that it is a business, but any business should know what is ethical and unethical or does anyone have a conscious these days.

After reading some of the post that had been written some time ago, I wonder how you think you should be paid for holidays and for inclement weather when you donít watch children.

My problem is this, if you watch a child then you should be paid for those services. If you donít then there should be no charge. My wife and I have to deal with her brother and his wife. They donít have a day care, but they sure do operate their home like it is. (Of course there home can be treated as such.)

Earning my Masterís and learning more and more about businesses and how they operate helps me understand what is ethical and not ethical. So again let me ask the question, why should daycareís be paid for services not rendered for bad weather, holidays, or when children can be watched by their parents?

Just saying, ďyou get paid holidays why shouldnít weĒ is not an valid argument.

Itís dishonest to charge parents when you donít watch children. I do agree that policies should be up front and in writing. But again are your policies honest? If they are, then Iím sure parents will enjoy doing business with you, if not your probably still going to have that migraine.

Companies still have to take out federal income tax, state income tax, health care fees, retirement, S.S. fees, and disability. Of course some of these are mandatory while others are voluntarily. So as a daycare are you doing all of this? Do you offer retirement for your employees, paid holidays, paid time off, and sick leave?

Again, why should parents pay a daycare for services they didnít provide?

If someone on this blog can give me an honest and valid argument then maybe you can persuade me to understand why you should be paid for services not provided?

Unregistered 12-24-2008 03:31 PM

So you having the education that you do........you do understand how salary pay works right! My daycare is a flat rate on a yearly bases and you can either pay by the year, month or i break it down for you on a weekly basis, which is how most parents pay. I pay my taxes every year just like you do. And i have no employees, its just me, I work 6 days a week and sometimes 18 hours a day! I have dedicated my life to caring for and teaching other peoples children and i think that entitles me to some paid days off! Whether it be a hoilday or not. Not to mention by law i can take up to 10 paid days off a year! Oh but please understand I'm not trying to persuade you into understanding this! But this is a business and i run it as such! Understand this........what would you think if your boss called and said , well don't come in for the next week we don't have any customers to service and oh by the way were not going to pay you for that week either! Would you be ok with that?

Unregistered 12-24-2008 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 10331)
So you having the education that you do........you do understand how salary pay works right! My daycare is a flat rate on a yearly bases and you can either pay by the year, month or i break it down for you on a weekly basis, which is how most parents pay. I pay my taxes every year just like you do. And i have no employees, its just me, I work 6 days a week and sometimes 18 hours a day! I have dedicated my life to caring for and teaching other peoples children and i think that entitles me to some paid days off! Whether it be a hoilday or not. Not to mention by law i can take up to 10 paid days off a year! Oh but please understand I'm not trying to persuade you into understanding this! But this is a business and i run it as such! Understand this........what would you think if your boss called and said , well don't come in for the next week we don't have any customers to service and oh by the way were not going to pay you for that week either! Would you be ok with that?

Hi,
You can take as many days off as you want and still charge the same flat monthly rate. There is no set amount of days you can take off in your own business, you might want to look into it : )

Merry Christmas

Unregistered 12-25-2008 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 10332)
Hi,
You can take as many days off as you want and still charge the same flat monthly rate. There is no set amount of days you can take off in your own business, you might want to look into it : )

Merry Christmas

Thanks for that info. I usually only take major hoildays off and 1 week(paid) and 1 week (unpaid) for vacation a year! I just don't know how to make these parents understand that just because Your child didn't attend today, does not mean i have to day off. I'm still working and i expect to be paid for that!

NEDaycare 12-30-2008 11:49 AM

Paid holidays
 
When I had my children in daycare, I had absolutely no problem paying my provider for holidays. However, I did choose not to take my child to a provider that wanted pay for holidays as well as two weeks of paid vacation. It was my choice. I have never had my children with a daycare provider that did not charge just a flat weekly rate, anyhow. And that is fair to me. They have to budget for daycare expenses related to their business and personal expenses. They are not "on call". They have a certain number of slots alloted to them by the state if they are licensed, and each slot is worth a certain amount of money each week. They have to determine how to manage their business appropriately, and successfully.

Now, as a licensed child care provider, I created my business contract with what I felt was fair. I am not paid for my vacations or my sick days. I am paid for major holidays, but if I take a day off before or after a major holiday, I do not charge for it. It's not a matter of ethics. It is a matter of creating a business contract, and offering the terms and conditions of my business available to all parents that inquire, and having them choose whether or not they agree with those terms. If not, they find alternative arrangements. However, at $90 per week for full time care, my rates are extremely, extremely reasonable for this area. Plus, giving parents several free days off per year so that they dont have to pay for some of their child's sick days and possibly a vacation that they would like to take is my way of compromising payment for emergencies and for life plans, while not putting myself out of business. Like Liddabitapopcorn said, there's no single answer to the question. But those of us that do charge for holidays are not unethical. It's a matter of choice by the parent whether they enroll their child or not. And I would hope they'd think enough of us (who spend more waking hours with their child per day than they, themselves do) to want to keep our businesses successful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesReese (Post 10324)
I personally don't own a day care, nor do I ever plan on it. However, I do understand that it is a business, but any business should know what is ethical and unethical or does anyone have a conscious these days.

After reading some of the post that had been written some time ago, I wonder how you think you should be paid for holidays and for inclement weather when you donít watch children.

My problem is this, if you watch a child then you should be paid for those services. If you donít then there should be no charge. My wife and I have to deal with her brother and his wife. They donít have a day care, but they sure do operate their home like it is. (Of course there home can be treated as such.)

Earning my Masterís and learning more and more about businesses and how they operate helps me understand what is ethical and not ethical. So again let me ask the question, why should daycareís be paid for services not rendered for bad weather, holidays, or when children can be watched by their parents?

Just saying, ďyou get paid holidays why shouldnít weĒ is not an valid argument.

Itís dishonest to charge parents when you donít watch children. I do agree that policies should be up front and in writing. But again are your policies honest? If they are, then Iím sure parents will enjoy doing business with you, if not your probably still going to have that migraine.

Companies still have to take out federal income tax, state income tax, health care fees, retirement, S.S. fees, and disability. Of course some of these are mandatory while others are voluntarily. So as a daycare are you doing all of this? Do you offer retirement for your employees, paid holidays, paid time off, and sick leave?

Again, why should parents pay a daycare for services they didnít provide?

If someone on this blog can give me an honest and valid argument then maybe you can persuade me to understand why you should be paid for services not provided?


Texasjeepgirl 02-01-2009 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NEDaycare (Post 10370)
When I had my children in daycare, I had absolutely no problem paying my provider for holidays. However, I did choose not to take my child to a provider that wanted pay for holidays as well as two weeks of paid vacation. It was my choice. I have never had my children with a daycare provider that did not charge just a flat weekly rate, anyhow. And that is fair to me. They have to budget for daycare expenses related to their business and personal expenses. They are not "on call". They have a certain number of slots alloted to them by the state if they are licensed, and each slot is worth a certain amount of money each week. They have to determine how to manage their business appropriately, and successfully.

Now, as a licensed child care provider, I created my business contract with what I felt was fair. I am not paid for my vacations or my sick days. I am paid for major holidays, but if I take a day off before or after a major holiday, I do not charge for it. It's not a matter of ethics. It is a matter of creating a business contract, and offering the terms and conditions of my business available to all parents that inquire, and having them choose whether or not they agree with those terms. If not, they find alternative arrangements. However, at $90 per week for full time care, my rates are extremely, extremely reasonable for this area. Plus, giving parents several free days off per year so that they dont have to pay for some of their child's sick days and possibly a vacation that they would like to take is my way of compromising payment for emergencies and for life plans, while not putting myself out of business. Like Liddabitapopcorn said, there's no single answer to the question. But those of us that do charge for holidays are not unethical. It's a matter of choice by the parent whether they enroll their child or not. And I would hope they'd think enough of us (who spend more waking hours with their child per day than they, themselves do) to want to keep our businesses successful.

Very well stated.

I do believe that each situation is different, for all of those who are posting.
In 1992, when my daughter was 11 months old, I enrolled her in a small REGISTERED Home Child Care.
I was provided with a 1 page CONTRACT that stated I would pay a FLAT WEEKLY FEE regardless of whether my child attended or not.
I signed it. However, I didn't actually READ AND COMPREHEND.
After only a few weeks of using this provider, I only took my child in 3 days one week. I deducted the days that I did not use from the check I made out for her.
She did not correct me.
A week or two later, again, I only needed care 3 days, and again I PRORATED her paycheck. Again she did not correct me.
The third time was a charm.
I only used her 2 days in a week, prorated her paycheck, and she stopped me in my tracks.
She said that I had signed a contract with her stating that I would pay the same amount each week, regardless of whether my child attended all 5 days or not. I was SPEACHLESS. I could NOT comprehend that this woman expected me to pay for days my child was NOT IN HER CARE.
But, I decided it was my mistake. I should have read the contract before I signed.

One year later, I began my own REGISTERED daycare. Then I began to understand the concept of paying full time fees for a full time position in my child care business.

After 17 years, and switching from being a REGISTERED provider to a LICENSED provider, the PARENT HANDBOOK I provide to a parent is very clear.
Full time fee is required whether your child attends all 5 days or not.
I list the NATIONAL HOLIDAYS that I will be closed for the year, with full pay.
I do state that if a holiday falls on Thursday, such as Thanksgiving, I will also be closed Friday.
If a holiday falls on Tuesday, I will also be closed on Monday.
(to all providers, it is very important to think ahead, and have this clearly stated in your handbook from the beginning, you can't decide it as an afterthought and expect a parent to agree to this)

I also state that although I will not charge a parent if I close down for a full, Monday-Friday week, I do reserve 10 days per year for PERSONAL USE, ie illness, family emergency, weather related closing or other.
In the event of an emergency closure, I will notify the parents as soon as possible, but, if I am going to take a PERSONAL DAY, I will notify them several weeks, if not several MONTHS in advance.

With all of that said....
because I DO NOT charge parents for a full week if I close down, in 2007 I had a hysterectomy.
Because I could not afford to close my daycare down and loose income, my sister came and ran my daycare for the 3 days I was in the hospital.
I worked Monday, she worked Tuesday-Thursday, while I had surgery, and returned home.
On Friday, with the help of my husband and 4 teenage daughters, I was back to work, following MAJOR SURGERY...not smart...but I did it...CAREFULLY.
The daycare was never closed, and the parents were NEVER inconvenienced.
Fortunately, I had no complications. After 2 weeks I was back to working with no assistance from my daughters.

I think the main thing I'm trying to relate to all readers of this thread is this:
A quality provider, regardless of the size of her business, should provide a parent with written operational policies in the beginning.
For all TEXAS childcare providers that are LICENSED OR REGISTERED, this is a requirement of MINIMUM STANDARD OF CHILD CARE LICENSING, and your child care licensing representative will check you on this standard.

Any time I interview a prosepctive new client, I give them a tour of my daycare, I answer all questions they ask of me, then I provide them with my PARENT HANDBOOK. I very clearly tell them that they must read it in full before making the decision of whether to enroll their child in my daycare. I further explain that although they may like what they see, and like my personality/qualifications as a child care provider, I do have certain operational policies that they must understand and agree to before we can begin our partnership as PARENT/CHILD CARE PROVIDER.
If, once they read my handbook, they do not feel that they can live by my PARENT HANDBOOK, then they are free to move on and seek child care from another provider.

My daycare is open 6:30-5:30. 11 hours per day.
Fortunately I am rarely sick. Although I list in my handbook that I allow myself 10 personal days per year, I think I used 3 last year.
I pride myself on being reliable. My clients depend on me.
However, I am ONLY HUMAN...and I am a 1 woman show...so if I am sick, or have an emergency...my parents must be understanding of that.
They understand from the beginning that I work alone. If they choose me as their provider, they are choosing an individual, not a facility. I don't have employees that can take care of things if I am ill.

For all parents, if you are searching for child care, be sure you discuss all of these issues from DAY 1 with your child care provider.
These are important issues.

tymaboy 02-01-2009 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesReese (Post 10324)

Companies still have to take out federal income tax, state income tax, health care fees, retirement, S.S. fees, and disability. Of course some of these are mandatory while others are voluntarily. So as a daycare are you doing all of this? Do you offer retirement for your employees, paid holidays, paid time off, and sick leave?

Because we are a business we have to pay taxes like everyone else. We also need to pay in more cuz employers pay some of SS.

I just recently went to a weekly rate cuz at an hourly rate when a family decides at the last minute to not bring their child then you now have a day that you could have more children but can not fill due to the fact that you need to keep that spot open for the family that is paying an hourly fee that changes their schedule when they see fit. As a weekly fee the parents are paying for the spot & is more convenient.

I found this that I think explains the weekly pay pretty well & will be handing it to may parents when they sign up

Quote:

*Do you pay for a whole month of cable-even if you only watch it 24 days a month?
* Do you pay full price for your VCR if you only use it twice a week?
* Do you pay full price for your meal even if you don’t finish it?
* Do you pay the same rent/mortgage even when you are at work 5 days a week?

In my child care, you pay per “position”, which means that the position is held just for your child and is not based on attendance.

Your childcare fees provide my income including the taxes, which I pay into. Your fees pay for food, paper products, cleaning supplies, play equipment, baby equipment, art and craft supplies, utilities, nap mats, pack n plays, special chairs and furniture, strollers and car seats. Lots of repairs and wear and tear, entertainment expenses, paperwork and supplies, special events and all the other things that your child will use.

Like other self-employed workers, family childcare providers do not receive the benefits many employees take for granted. These include, health/dental insurance, retirement/pension, paid personal days, personal vacation time, maternity leave, workers comp, flexible time off and unemployment insurance. These benefits often amount to as much as 35% of a person’s wages.

Family childcare is a blessing to your family, in that your children will have much more individual attention and opportunities for learning, and much less illness than a center. There is also much less staff turnover, as your child will have one person caring for him or her only, and will not be transferred from one room in the center to another. This kind of ongoing relationship between child and caregiver has been shown to be the very healthiest situation possible for young children.

Unlike other forms of self-employment, family childcare is very restrictive in that there is no room for growth. The state dictates the size of my business. I cannot take time off for appointments or obligations without careful planning. Most people have a 40 hour work week. Mine is 55 hours and up, and that does not include all my preparation, bookkeeping, paperwork, shopping or cleaning time.

I hope this gives you a better understanding about all the ways in which your childcare fees are applied.
I charge for 10 holidays but do not charge for for my sick days or vacation days. I tell all my parents that I am open during bad weather & it is up to them if they came.

leadhead15717 02-03-2009 08:00 PM

*Do you pay for a whole month of cable-even if you only watch it 24 days a month?
* Do you pay full price for your VCR if you only use it twice a week?
* Do you pay full price for your meal even if you donít finish it?
* Do you pay the same rent/mortgage even when you are at work 5 days a week?
*Do you pay your full car payments if you only drive it a few days a month?
* Do you pay your whole cable bill if you only watch TV one day a week.

This list could go on but it amazes me that people can't grasp the concept when it comes to Day Care services.........:confused:

Unregistered 03-02-2009 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 184)
Exactly my thoughts *Interested*
Sometimes I think parents whine more than children. You are paying for the slot, not for the hour. If you want it spelled out.... you have a yearly flat rate. It is broken down for your convenience. Or would you rather pay by the year?? The only thing to change this is what the policy makes exceptions to. Have you ever heard of salary pay? No matter how many hours you work, it is a flat pay. It is the same principle. Got a problem? Start your own day care and see what we are talking about, then maybe you would understand better. If we catered to everyones whims, we would watch your precious for free 24/7.

You seem a little bitter! I am sure you have had your run in with parents. Im also sure you have some lower income families who may have a difficult time paying for daycare. It may help you if you did break it down for them so they could understand why you do charge for these times and show them that it makes it easier to help keep your daycare open and running as it should. And yes parents do whine as much as children I work with both and if you take a look im sure you have had your own share of whining as im sure I have.

Unregistered 03-16-2009 10:57 AM

Everyone whines about their jobs once in a while. I have paid holidays and 2 weeks paid vacation in my contract. Although I love my job, the ultimate reason for me to do childcare was to be home with my own children also. I feel that my children deserve some one on one time with just their mom, and not their mom taking care of everyone elses children. Also, there are many parents out there, that unless I closed for my vacations, they would NEVER take the time to spend with their kids. I am licensed for 8, but I keep my limit to about 5, so everyone can get the most attention I can give. If I am charging $125 (approx) a week per child, and I did not get paid for my week vacation, then I am out about $600.00 for the month. I depend on that money to pay my mortgage and buy food (for the daycare kids also, who by the way, are supposed to be fed breakfast prior to arrival-but seldom do). The parents wake them up and they are in a car within minutes. The parents don't take the time to sit down to breakfast with their kids. Bottom line is: I cannot find a child for one day to fill in the spot that a parent decides at 8:00 in the morning not to bring their child. There is not a line of kids waiting at the door for fill-in childcare to supplement my income. Also to the "educated" woman who says we should get an education if we want the benefits: I do have an education, but I felt it was more important for me to raise my won children, than have a stranger do it for me. Also, I can have the benefits, because it is my company and I make the rules. Parents know this up front, and I have parents refer me to friends and come back when they have had more children because they trust me and can't imagine going elsewhere with their babies. I treat the children like they are my own, and if the parents have to be at work, their kids should be loved as if they were home. This entitles me to some benefits. I will never have a retirement or a 401K or life insurance or health insurance......but I sure will take some paid time off.

md12 03-17-2009 01:58 PM

I'm a parent and at work I'm not paid for holidays... I don't have a problem paying holidays at daycare... Most companies pay holidays, I'm just not lucky to work for one of those.
My problem is... why pay full tuition when daycare is closed due to wheatear condition?
It will be fair to parents that all providers will charge less because they do not open, do not provide food for that day, no crafts are done... nothing is used from the daycare. I understand you have to pay rent, teachers, little bit of electricity, etc for that day... so charge as much as you think you will need to pay those and that's it. Anyway the parents are not working or have to find somebody to babysit... it's a double expense on the parents...
I think a daycare business should be more flexible on rules like this.

seashell 04-28-2009 11:47 AM

Paid less than minimum wage
 
If you are not happy with paying for your providers holidays, then find a new provider. I am amazed at the parents out there who don't read the documents presented to them and then complain.

You need to pay the entire cost to rent a hotel room . . . you can't just pay for the hours you are in the room. It's still your room from the time you sign the register until you check out.

I don't charge my parents for my sick days or vacation. I do charge for holidays as most providers do.

But to make it "Fair" to parents and providers alike, lets try it this way. Parents, you don't have to pay for holidays but you do have to pay your provider at least minimum wage. Federal minimum wage is currently $6.65 per hour and will be 7.25 per hour in July. So to make it easy, lets just call it $7 per hour.

So, if you leave your child with your provider for 40 hours a week at $7 per hour your weeky fee would be $280.00.

I wonder how many of you are paying alot less than minimum wage when you break it down by hour?


Considering the great service they provide you. You child is loved, happy, educated and well cared for. That isn't even worth minimum wage to you?

Most providers care for kids because they enjoy it. They arn't out to screw parents. If they were, you'd be paying more than minimum wage per hour. So whats the compromise for affordable weekly care? Be considerate and appreciative and pay for holidays!

mac60 06-18-2009 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A mom (Post 2558)
Our daycare provider charges only for the days my daughter is physically there so long as we tell them by the Sunday evening of that particular week. So we do not pay for holidays, we do not pay for our vacations, and we don't pay for any days I know in advance that she won't be there. They use this open communication system of scheduling to give their caretakers more flexibility in their own schedules. So no, not all providers charge for the "slot." Some actually charge for the care that is provided.

I would guess that the providers that charge this way....only charge for hours used.....are providers that do not really need a "job" and this simply gives them something to do. Now me, I need a job and I run my daycare business as such. I run a very good program complete with preschool curriculum and all. And yes, doing it this way does cost me money. And yes, I charge whether the child is here or not, vacation, holidays, and sick days included. Now if I could have 20 kids on my roster and hope the 6 show up each day to meet my income needs, that is one thing. But we can't do that here as we have a limit for in our care. So yes, each spot is worth $$ and if you choose to not attend after you reserved your spot with me, you still have to pay. Even 15 years ago when my own kids were in daycare that is how it was.

melissa ann 06-26-2009 05:32 PM

I don't charge for holidays or for my 1 week vacation. However, I have just revised my handbook. I will now charge for scheduled days. Before, if I was told child #1 would be here 4 days but then only shows up for 2 because of other plans I would just charge for the 2 days child was here. But, since I only have 1 family,losing the daily rate by 3 would add up.
I really want to charge a flat weekly rate, but in my area, that's not what others are doing. They are charging a daily rate on days when children are in their care.

Chickenhauler 06-27-2009 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac60 (Post 12426)
I would guess that the providers that charge this way....only charge for hours used.....are providers that do not really need a "job" and this simply gives them something to do. Now me, I need a job and I run my daycare business as such. I run a very good program complete with preschool curriculum and all. And yes, doing it this way does cost me money. And yes, I charge whether the child is here or not, vacation, holidays, and sick days included. Now if I could have 20 kids on my roster and hope the 6 show up each day to meet my income needs, that is one thing. But we can't do that here as we have a limit for in our care. So yes, each spot is worth $$ and if you choose to not attend after you reserved your spot with me, you still have to pay. Even 15 years ago when my own kids were in daycare that is how it was.

You're obviously dealing with parents who have normal, 9-5 jobs.

My wife could never do this, as she has some parents who work ever changing schedules, wait staff, cas-ino staff, prison guards, single mom's who work multiple jobs, etc.

However, when the parent gets their schedule, they come to her with it, and notify her of that schedule, at which point they are locked into paying for those hours they committed to.

With some parents, she is flexible-say the parent has their hours changed, so instead of being 10am to 6pm, it becomes 2pm to 10pm, they are not charged from 10am to 10pm, but just the hours they were there.

It's kinda hard to stick it to the poor girl who is a single mom, working two jobs to make ends meet, when every day you see her say a short prayer when she hops in her car that it will start.

Our area is far from being affluent, and many of the jobs are "you are going to work these hours, or you're not going to work here" kinda places. That really sucks, but it's the truth.

Trust me, if my wife needed "something to do" I think she'd find I can come up with plenty of projects to occupy her time.:D

mac60 07-02-2009 06:19 AM

Personally, I would never had taken a child to a provider that was open more than 1 shift, as that means that provider never gets a break.

As far as a parent's schedule changing, of course as a provider, we have to be flexible to a point and charge accordingly.

Unregistered 07-03-2009 12:34 PM

a little compassion for the provider
 
I would agree that it's tough to understand it til you've been in a provider's shoes.
For the record, I AM educated and I CHOSE this field because I LOVE children. I really do.

I continue my education at a minimum of 16 hours per year. I am also a BUSINESS owner and everything else you can think of. It's a lot of work and very rewarding, but very underpaid as it is WITHOUT the paid holidays or time off. The fees are based on a flat rate to cover expenses plus earn some money as well. (at least half of what I make goes right back into the daycare every week). Do you work for free? Does your employer pay salary and then say they changed their mind and will deduct salary because they will be closed one day?


If you had a babysitter, you would be lucky to get by with paying them less than $8.00/hour and that's a highschool student. Now, your paying a professional, not a babysitter AND you are paying at LEAST half of a babysitter's pay. PLUS, you are getting quality and loving care and education for that money. You can trust your child is in good hands.

You'd pay more for a nanny, and she would expect some sort of compensation as well. Daycare providers are not out to get you and rip you off. They love children. They love their work and it's a professional job---just like yours is, Master's degree or not.

Just something to think about.


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