Originally Posted by professionalmom:
I do agree with this assessment. When I was growing up, if I got into trouble with an adult (teacher, grandparent, aunt, uncle, etc.), I got in trouble with my parents. There was none of this, "(gasp) How dare you say such horrible things about MY precious little angel!?" Adults supported each other and understood that children misbehave and that misbehavior needed correction not defensiveness. It was part of the "growing up" process. Now, it is considered offensive to suggest to a parent that his/her child may have a real problem, which further escalates the issue because the treatment is delayed because of parental defensiveness and the resulting negligence.
Obviously, I do not spank or swat or use any discipline like that with my daycare kids, but I have noticed that many providers have mentioned that they do "swat" their own children from time to time. Now, I do not want a debate over physical punishment or not - it's irrelevant because it is illegal (at least in MI) in this industry. However, in a discipline course I took a few months back, they were saying that "time-out" was too harsh and bordering on abusive. What does that leave us? We keep getting told what NOT to do, which results in the situation such as the one the original poster described. Are we creating an environment where children (even very young children) are allowed to do whatever they want, regardless of how harmful or dangerous it is, simply because saying "no" becomes abusive or "too harsh"?
We are on a very slippery slope which seems like it will end with the inmates running the asylum. And how do you form a civilized society when you are caving into the weakest link (the youngest, most immature, most ignorant, etc.) of our society?
Why can't government stop telling us what NOT to do and just give us real useful tools and techniques THAT WORK! Of course, that just might put us back into the 1950's where a swat was considered the "responsible" course of action to correct behavior issues. (Again not saying whether it's right or wrong). I'm just pointing out that parents and caregivers did not seem to have a problem with this type of stuff as often until many or most of these discipline techniques were described as abusive.
I like professionalmom posts
I wouldn't be upset if time out was banished. It doesn't work anyway. It's a measure of last resort at my house. If you limit it to the number of minutes of the age of a child it is completely ineffective. There's no point in doing something that has no real bearing on the child.
One of the problems with discipline is that we can't even try to share with each other what works. Providers aren't able to have real conversations about their techniques because anything short of giving the kid a bunch of lovin and cuddles and a plead to not repeat the action is considered abusive. It's one area of child rearing that we can't even use what did work from the generations before us because nothing short of petting the child is acceptable now. Anything that we do that isn't sunshine and roses is either specifically against state regs or is considered to harm the self esteem of the child.
The reason the kids in the OP's situation act like they do is because they can. I would have behaved that way as a child if the adults couldn't do anything about it. Most kids would. You will get a small number of kids who will natuarally be sweet and compliant but as time goes on that group is becoming smaller and smaller. If you don't have the children from the time they are babies you are going to be in the business of a lot of kids with a lot of behavior problems.
Another huge problem with todays acceptable discipline techniques is that they are simply too time consuming. If we are to "discuss" and "distract" and find ways around the child's behavior we have to have a lot of TIME for each child in each situation. My parents were able to do a quick NO or a quick swat on the butt or removing the child by making a child GO TO BED and stay in bed. Now there's nothing that the adults can do that is quick and stops the behavior. Now we must do a therapy session for every time the kid acts up. Most adults being paid to take care of kids aren't being paid enough and have a low enough number of children to devote that much of their resources to doing a therapy session to get behavior to change. We expect it now but nobody wants to pay for that. If the providers aren't being paid for that they won't do it.
It's getting worse. I have been doing this for three decades now and I can say without equivocation that the behavior of children has become markedly worse with each generation of kids. When you have kids who are ALLOWED to hit their mother, destroy property, harm themselves and others and their consequence is a two minute time out... you are going to have BIG problems. It doesn't work.. that's why it's getting worse. It's that simple.
I think one huge problem with discipline is the ability for adults to be honest with the parents. Not only can you not suggest there is anything wrong with the child but many parents don't even want to hear that their child is normal. We have a society now that believes that their child is "advanced", "really smart", and often "gifted". Normal is a slap in the face now. This is something that I did not see 10 years ago.
So when you have the parents believing their child is gifted and in reality the child has serious issues and is normal or even developmentally delayed you have NO common ground to unite and work on issues. It's BAD business to be honest. It doesn't "right" itself until the child goes to school.. free school.. the great equalizer. When no money is being exchanged the truth floats to the surface. Bit by bit the parent begins to see the truth of their child compared to others. The behavior becomes a liability to the public and generates societal changes like "zero tollerance" and "bullying policies". That's where we are now.
One other contributing issue IMHO is the diet of this generation. So many kids are living off of really bad nutrition from toddlerhood on. I think one of the main reasons I don't have behavior problems with my group is that they have excellent diets at home and at care. Their parents COOK for them and they eat healthy meals both at home and day care. Their bellies are full and their bodies are growing with the most excellent nutrition available. I could be wrong.. but I don't think so. I think nutrition is a HUGE factor in discipline and behavior.