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Old 07-05-2013, 07:06 AM
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MarinaVanessa MarinaVanessa is offline
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Default States That Don't Allow Liability Insurance Affidavits

I just wanted some thoughts from providers about this. In CA we aren't required to have liability insurance or a bond but if we don't we have to have our clients sign an affidavit that says that they have been informed that we don't have either. This is a requirement of licensing. As of right now we have a choice of whether or not we wish to purchase liability insurance or a bond or not but I know some states don't allow that option. How has that worked out for you and what are your thoughts?

I received an email (because I'm the board of my child care association) from the coordinator of an organization called Family Childcare Policy Advisory Committee (FCCAC) saying that attorneys keep telling them that providers who chose not to purchase liability insurance or bonds are being sued and go to them for help and do not understand why they weren't protected by the Affidavits. They are asking for help if we, as an association, agree that providers would be better off without affidavits. Correct me if I'm wrong but if they remove the option for providers to be able to have affidavits signed (if they don't want to or can't afford liability insurance or bonds) wouldn't that then force providers to have to purchase liability insurance? (I emailed the coordinator back but have yet to hear from him).

Oh and as it turns out the FCCAC gets all of their funding from DCI (a daycare insurance provider) and the coordinator that I was emailing with happens to be the president of DCI. Seems a little fishy to me, as in it seems that the president of a major daycare insurance company is trying to get petition signatures to get rid of the affidavit option with the excuse that it would benefit providers because then they would be covered by insurance and therefore not be unprepared in case of a liability suit.
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Old 07-05-2013, 01:25 PM
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We are not required to have ins. But do the providers really think by telling parents they do not carry liability ins clears them of the responsibility. All it does is tell parents If they sign and their child gets hurt , all they can do is sue and hope the provider can pay.

Yes I believe all providers need to be educated on the risks of not having liability ins.
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Old 07-05-2013, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by itlw8 View Post
We are not required to have ins. But do the providers really think by telling parents they do not carry liability ins clears them of the responsibility. All it does is tell parents If they sign and their child gets hurt , all they can do is sue and hope the provider can pay.

Yes I believe all providers need to be educated on the risks of not having liability ins.
This is what I was having a hard time believing, the guy was telling me that there are many providers that think this but I don't see how this is possible. Of course maybe SOME providers out there that don't familiarize themselves with the laws and regulations could but I know that for me this topic has come up during the licensing process (licensing tells us that we are not protected against a lawsuit no matter what and that is why they recommend liability insurance), by my homeowner's insurance (who I get my rider from), community care licensing updates, free trainings and workshops etc.

I guess to me it just sounds like DCI (a daycare insurance provider) made up it's own organization and is funding it and directing it with the main guy that owns DCI and are now trying to change a regulation to benefit from this whole thing. Afterall, if providers don't have the option to have an affidavit signed and this isn't replaced with a different option then they are forced to purchase liability insurance KWIM? So I feel like in essence a daycare insurance company is using an organization that it itself has created and funded to remove a regulation which will force providers to carry liability insurance which means that the insurance company will make a profit .

I have liability insurance and would never run my business without it and I highly recommend that providers carry liability insurance but I don't think it should be forced KWIM.
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Old 07-05-2013, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by itlw8 View Post
We are not required to have ins. But do the providers really think by telling parents they do not carry liability ins clears them of the responsibility. All it does is tell parents If they sign and their child gets hurt , all they can do is sue and hope the provider can pay.

Yes I believe all providers need to be educated on the risks of not having liability ins.
THIS HERE.

I always had insurance. Keep in mind, if you OWN any assets, such as your home, then any suit can be attached to said home as a lien. I've seen people lose everything in lawsuits where they were liable for something that was costly...(mostly auto accidents). SOME coverage is better than NONE, and I paid $350/yr for my dc insurance and wrote it off. I can't imagine anyone who is licensed not want this added protection. Additionally, most states who allow a DCP to collect subisdy do require this insurance to be carried as part of the contractual agreement. I do know that's how it is where I Live, including if we accept Military subsidy
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Old 07-06-2013, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa View Post
I just wanted some thoughts from providers about this. In CA we aren't required to have liability insurance or a bond but if we don't we have to have our clients sign an affidavit that says that they have been informed that we don't have either. This is a requirement of licensing. As of right now we have a choice of whether or not we wish to purchase liability insurance or a bond or not but I know some states don't allow that option. How has that worked out for you and what are your thoughts?

I received an email (because I'm the board of my child care association) from the coordinator of an organization called Family Childcare Policy Advisory Committee (FCCAC) saying that attorneys keep telling them that providers who chose not to purchase liability insurance or bonds are being sued and go to them for help and do not understand why they weren't protected by the Affidavits. They are asking for help if we, as an association, agree that providers would be better off without affidavits. Correct me if I'm wrong but if they remove the option for providers to be able to have affidavits signed (if they don't want to or can't afford liability insurance or bonds) wouldn't that then force providers to have to purchase liability insurance? (I emailed the coordinator back but have yet to hear from him).

Oh and as it turns out the FCCAC gets all of their funding from DCI (a daycare insurance provider) and the coordinator that I was emailing with happens to be the president of DCI. Seems a little fishy to me, as in it seems that the president of a major daycare insurance company is trying to get petition signatures to get rid of the affidavit option with the excuse that it would benefit providers because then they would be covered by insurance and therefore not be unprepared in case of a liability suit.
I think I know what you are saying but not positive.

We are not required to carry insurance OR sign anything informing anyone of whether we do or not. I carry it (with DCI btw) but my provider friend doesn't. Only one client has ever asked if I have insurance or not because she was in the insurance business. She asked me for one of those proof of insurance things (forget what you call them) and I gave her one. That is supplied by DCI (in my case) at no charge to me. It tells the parent I am insured and when my insurance expires but not how much coverage I have.

I'm not sure how providers think that an affidavit that says they do NOT carry insurance protects them in any way. You would think one would have to know that if they sign a paper saying they decline to buy insurance that they are NOT covered if they get sued.

The affidavit seems to be just a way the state has of saying "I choose not to have liability insurance." I don't see why not having the affidavit would make people buy insurance it if they didn't want it. Much like a doctor that I have that doesn't carry malpractice insurance. He says it is cost prohibitive. All his patients know it so they can choose whether to go to him or not.

I think having the affidavit would more likely make a provider tend to buy insurance because they know that the parent knows that they are not carrying it. As it is here, if the parent wants to know they can ask and get proof. If they don't ask then we have no obligation to buy it or tell them we don't have it. An affidavit almost seems like pressure to make providers want to buy it rather than the other way around. I tend to agree with doing away with the affidavits.

It seems like your state's affidavit it just confusing providers (although I'm not sure why) so I don't see a need for it if I am understanding the situation correctly.

Laurel
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Old 07-06-2013, 08:00 AM
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Tom Copeland wrote a blog entry about waivers for liability insurance. He included some VERY useful and important info. This is what it says:

Caring for children in your family child care home can be a risky business.

You know how easy it is for a child to be injured. The most common injury in a child care home is a child falling down. Such accidents can easily cost thousands of dollars in medical bills.

Some child care providers try to reduce their liability risk by putting a waiver in their contract. The language of such waivers might read: “Child care provider is not responsible for medical expenses resulting from an injury to a child in her program.”

If you are thinking that such a liability waiver will prevent a parent from successfully suing you - you are wrong. It won't.

Parent waivers of liability are not enforceable in court. This is because your clients can’t give up their right to sue you. Even the children in your care can sue you years later (usually up to age 18 or 21). A child care provider once told me about a three-year old child who was seriously injured while in her program. Fifteen years later a lawyer for this child sued the child care provider, claiming that the child (now 18) could not work.

The best way to protect yourself from liability risks is to buy adequate business liability insurance. If you have an insurance policy that has "occurrence" coverage you will be covered as long as you were insured when the injury occurred, even if you have been out of business for years. In the above case the child care provider did not have insurance and was faced with hiring a lawyer to defend herself.

To protect yourself against a child who may later sue you, keep copies of all your business liability insurance policies until you go out of business and the last child in your program at that time turns age 18 or 21. Check with your state attorney general's office for the age cutoff.


http://www.tomcopelandblog.com/2011/...otect-you.html
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Old 07-07-2013, 09:50 PM
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Tom Copeland wrote a blog entry about waivers for liability insurance.
The funny thing is that the person who I was emailing with was not talking about a waiver of liability as in ...

"I _____ the parent of _____ give permission for my child to use all the [Daycare] equipment blah blah blah ... and will be responsible for any medical expenses in cases of injury or medical emergencies.." etc.

He was talking about this form, AFFIDAVIT REGARDING LIABILITY INSURANCE
FOR FAMILY CHILD CARE HOME
, which in CA you are required to have a parent sign if you don't have liability insurance.

When I asked him why it was so important to remove this option he didn't give me a straight answer. When I emailed him back to clarify and ask him how and why this would benefit us providers, if this option would be replaced by another option or if this would force providers to purchase liability insurance he gave me the run around again and instead of answering my questions gave me the whole shpeal again about how provider need to be educated about liability insurance. I emailed him back and said that I just wanted to make sure that this would not require providers to purchase liability insurance and then he never emailed back. Before, he would return my emails within 30 minutes of receiving them ... and now nothing. It just seemed weird.
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Old 07-08-2013, 04:11 AM
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That does seem weird. It does seem there must be some benefit for him but what? If I were a parent and was asked to sign the form that you did not have insurance I'd have to ask you why you didn't think it was necessary. I know the parent who I had who wanted proof of insurance was ready to go elsewhere if I didn't carry it. She would remind me of it everytime it was due cause she knew. Of course, I always paid it because I think it is a BIG risk not to have it.

It seems like it would be 'less' business for an insurance company if parents didn't know providers weren't covered. I don't get his reaction either.

Laurel
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