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Old 08-11-2015, 09:24 AM
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Default Injury that Requires Medical Attention

I'm trying to get some input on how to handle an incident that (in my opinion) should have never happened. My 3 year old son was picked up by an older boy and dropped on the asphalt on his head. My husband was already on his way to pick him up with the incident happened as it was the end of the day, he was covered in blood, very drousy and out of it, and required a few stitches in his forehead. No concussion, but that was my biggest concern.

I realize an accident like this can happen at any time, but at this time my child was on the playground along with an older group of kids. It was a child from their after school program (grade school) that picked up my son. They are not supposed to be on the playgroud together. My little guy is off the charts small, about a head shorter than the other kids, and he is picked up frequently by the other kids (him and I have talked about it on several occasions). The same thing happened to me when I was a kid and I hated it. I don't know. I like his school and he's only been there a short while, but I feel like this accident was very avoidable.

I spoke with the director this morning. She was there last night but gone by the time we finished getting medical attention. Everyone has apologized profusely and says they think that the other kids learned from the incident and won't pick him up anymore. I'm not sure what more she could have said or what I expect. I don't want to cause a big stink and get mad over something that's in the past, but what if there's a real problem? I keep being told that the big kids were lining up to leave the playground and the little kids had just come out and they are not supposed to be on the playground together. This does not align in my head because several times at pick up my son is on the playground with the kindergarteners/first graders....so why is it happening frequently if it's against their policy?


Also, I assume the medical bills are all mine or does the daycare have some liability? I really don't like causing a stink but I am starting to wonder if it's in my best interest to move him
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Old 08-11-2015, 09:33 AM
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I'm trying to get some input on how to handle an incident that (in my opinion) should have never happened. My 3 year old son was picked up by an older boy and dropped on the asphalt on his head. My husband was already on his way to pick him up with the incident happened as it was the end of the day, he was covered in blood, very drousy and out of it, and required a few stitches in his forehead. No concussion, but that was my biggest concern.

I realize an accident like this can happen at any time, but at this time my child was on the playground along with an older group of kids. It was a child from their after school program (grade school) that picked up my son. They are not supposed to be on the playgroud together. My little guy is off the charts small, about a head shorter than the other kids, and he is picked up frequently by the other kids (him and I have talked about it on several occasions). The same thing happened to me when I was a kid and I hated it. I don't know. I like his school and he's only been there a short while, but I feel like this accident was very avoidable.

I spoke with the director this morning. She was there last night but gone by the time we finished getting medical attention. Everyone has apologized profusely and says they think that the other kids learned from the incident and won't pick him up anymore. I'm not sure what more she could have said or what I expect. I don't want to cause a big stink and get mad over something that's in the past, but what if there's a real problem? I keep being told that the big kids were lining up to leave the playground and the little kids had just come out and they are not supposed to be on the playground together. This does not align in my head because several times at pick up my son is on the playground with the kindergarteners/first graders....so why is it happening frequently if it's against their policy?


Also, I assume the medical bills are all mine or does the daycare have some liability? I really don't like causing a stink but I am starting to wonder if it's in my best interest to move him
I would feel exactly as you do and would insist on a written plan of action that clearly state the rules for the play ground

The older kids should NOT be on the playground with the others at all if that is the rule. If it's not, then the older kids should NEVER EVER be allowed to physically touch a younger child much less pick one up in the manner in which you described.

I would honestly be livid....

As for the medical bills....no not your responsibility. It is theirs as the liability falls on them and they failed to keep your child safe as promised according to their policies.

In my state ANY incident that requires medical attention must be reported to the state licensing agency.
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Old 08-11-2015, 09:41 AM
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I would feel exactly as you do and would insist on a written plan of action that clearly state the rules for the play ground

The older kids should NOT be on the playground with the others at all if that is the rule. If it's not, then the older kids should NEVER EVER be allowed to physically touch a younger child much less pick one up in the manner in which you described.

I would honestly be livid....

As for the medical bills....no not your responsibility. It is theirs as the liability falls on them and they failed to keep your child safe as promised according to their policies.

In my state ANY incident that requires medical attention must be reported to the state licensing agency.


I would also be livid. You say they already had issues with your child being picked up, so they should have been more aware.

I actually gained a client once from a very reputable dc because the provider just did not see why she should stop the boys from similar behaviors (picking each other up, play wrestling, etc) and her child kept coming home covered in bruises. Turns out the provider was letting the bigger SA kids play with the littler preschoolers
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Old 08-11-2015, 10:12 AM
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Would anyone know if it is a state mandated guideline that the older and younger children can not be on the playground together? I am in the greater Salt Lake City of Utah.

Honestly I don't see much of a problem with him playing with bigger kids (he came from a home daycare where he was with kids ages 3mo-5years but there were only 4-8 kids at a time). BUT if it is a rule, it is clearly being broken and it wasn't a one time thing. It concerns me because then where is the line drawn? Is it really going to stop now that my son has been injured? I have witnessed adults tell bigger kids not to pick up my son before, I know they are expected not to lift him -- I'm not sure if the same attention is given to the situation when I am not on the playground picking him up.

Do I just bring the medical bill to the daycare and give it to them?

Is reporting to the state licensing agency something that I need to do or something that the daycare is responsible for?

I will get their playground policies in writing so that if I see the two groups on the playground together at the same time again I can address it right then and there.
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Old 08-11-2015, 10:16 AM
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Would anyone know if it is a state mandated guideline that the older and younger children can not be on the playground together? I am in the greater Salt Lake City of Utah.

Honestly I don't see much of a problem with him playing with bigger kids (he came from a home daycare where he was with kids ages 3mo-5years but there were only 4-8 kids at a time). BUT if it is a rule, it is clearly being broken and it wasn't a one time thing. It concerns me because then where is the line drawn? Is it really going to stop now that my son has been injured? I have witnessed adults tell bigger kids not to pick up my son before, I know they are expected not to lift him -- I'm not sure if the same attention is given to the situation when I am not on the playground picking him up.

Do I just bring the medical bill to the daycare and give it to them?

Is reporting to the state licensing agency something that I need to do or something that the daycare is responsible for?

I will get their playground policies in writing so that if I see the two groups on the playground together at the same time again I can address it right then and there.
Here are the guidelines for Utah. You'll have to read through the center ones to find out the rules on supervision in the play ground.
http://www.daycare.com/utah/

As for the medical bills, I would just ask the director where you should send them. You can also let your medical insurance billing dept or ER billing department know that this injury happened at daycare and you could request they sent the billing there. I don't know how your ER/hospital billing dept does their billing but that is what parents do here in my state.

As for the licensing report for injuries, you can request a copy of what was sent to the state (if your state has that rule).


Hoping your son is feeling better...
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Old 08-11-2015, 10:21 AM
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I would ask them for a written playground policy. I would also ask for a written plan of action. In my home daycare, I have mixed ages but I do not allow anyone but me (or my husband on the rare chance he is home and I need help) to pick up the children. Children are NEVER to pick up children in my daycare because of this very reason.

I might call licensing and ask if there is anything you need to do. I would also write up a letter to the center telling them that I will be asking them to pay the medical bills, and you will submit them as soon as treatment is over. They should have insurance for this.
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Old 08-11-2015, 11:13 AM
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Thank you for all of your advice!

The director is going to call me this afternoon so we can discuss it more. I learned the woman I talked to yesterday whom I thought was the director actually was just the lead on staff at the time of the incident.

It's nice to kind of know how these things work. I signed an "ouch report" yesterday (and also got a copy of it) that states another child had picked up my son. I clairfied that it was an older child from another class and I think that the report needs to state that, but I'm finding out how to handle the medical bills.

At first I just thought that he's my kid, I need to pay, so thanks for potentially saving me a few hundred dollars
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Old 08-11-2015, 11:28 AM
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After he got his stitches he came home and went to sleep and woke around 10pm in a very good mood.

This morning he says it feels better. Yesterday all he would tell me is that "it is very very hurting" he doesn't like his bandage changed or cleaned but in the grand scheme of things he's going to be just fine
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Old 08-11-2015, 12:12 PM
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Definetely I agree with everything that everyone has already said. Ask for the written playground policies and ask for a written plan of action that covers how they will make sure this doesn't happen again.

I was reading the part where OP mentions that the older kids are not supposed to be on the playground with the younger ones and how she has been told that the little ones came out while the older ones were lining up to go in etc. so it sounds as if that's their way of trying to make sure that the two groups are separated but that system failed. Seems to me like either the older kids need to start being lined up 5 minutes earlier or the younger ones need to be brought out 5 minutes later so that the older kids can be completely off of the playground by the time the younger ones get on it.

In either case I'd ask the director to pay for the medical expenses. In some cases like at schools and daycare centers parents sign waivers that say that the parents are responsible for medical costs if their child gets hurt BUT even if in your case you signed a form like this I would think that it doesn't apply since this was not normal play and your child was picked up by another child. Hopefully they have a written playground play policy but they might not.
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Old 08-11-2015, 01:14 PM
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I will let you know what I find out. I'm a little annoyed that I haven't been able to get more information as of yet. I spoke with the assistant director 3 hours ago and she told me the director will be calling me and I have yet to receive that call.

Not sure what standard procedure is, I feel like an idiot I didn't even know who the director of the center was until this happened.
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Old 08-11-2015, 01:16 PM
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It is possible that they are waiting to talk to their legal rep. first.
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Old 08-11-2015, 01:18 PM
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It is possible that they are waiting to talk to their legal rep. first.
This is what I was thinking also.
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Old 08-11-2015, 01:25 PM
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I have a home daycare and mixed ages- my bigs are NEVER EVER allowed to pick up anyone-ever. It is immediately stopped from happening. I have a tuy guy in my care, former micropreemie who is 5 and is the size of a small 3 year old. EVERYONE wants to pick him up. I have NEVER had a child disobey me on it though, and with diligent supervision, the rule has never had to be repeated.

I would forward medical bills to the director, and get their policies in writing. Absolutely preventable and avoidable.
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Old 08-11-2015, 01:34 PM
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I have a home daycare and mixed ages- my bigs are NEVER EVER allowed to pick up anyone-ever. It is immediately stopped from happening. I have a tuy guy in my care, former micropreemie who is 5 and is the size of a small 3 year old. EVERYONE wants to pick him up. I have NEVER had a child disobey me on it though, and with diligent supervision, the rule has never had to be repeated.

I would forward medical bills to the director, and get their policies in writing. Absolutely preventable and avoidable.
Thank you. My son is the average weight of a 16 month old. I totally can understand how it is enticing for kids in his own class as well as the 5-6 year old class to pick him up, but it is not acceptable. It was never a problem in his previous daycare because of the discipline you describe above.

I'm hoping I get answers soon. I want to be nice and understanding, but I am not super happy that it happened.
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Old 08-12-2015, 09:52 AM
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Update: I learned from a staff member that the child involved in the accident has autism. It makes more sense because when I spoke with my 3 year old regarding the incident he told me that the boy was "mean" and didn't say he was sorry. The staff member told me after it happened and my boy was on the ground being attended to the older child ran away and his behind a door inside the building. It is breaking my heart that it happened.

My stress level is just through the roof right now and my husband wants to call a lawyer if we don't get a phone call from the director today. It has been two days, I am feeling shocked. Even my old DKP reached out to make sure he was okay, I miss her like crazy.

My little guy is just fine though, he probably didn't need any stitches - he would have healed just fine but I had to take him in to rule out concussion because of the way he was acting.

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Old 08-12-2015, 10:01 AM
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Your son is adorable!

But I am angry for you, and I agree with the others that the are stalling to get their ducks in a row
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Old 08-12-2015, 10:02 AM
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Update: I learned from a staff member that the child involved in the accident has autism. It makes more sense because when I spoke with my 3 year old regarding the incident he told me that the boy was "mean" and didn't say he was sorry. The staff member told me after it happened and my boy was on the ground being attended to the older child ran away and his behind a door inside the building. It is breaking my heart that it happened.

My stress level is just through the roof right now and my husband wants to call a lawyer if we don't get a phone call from the director today. It has been two days, I am feeling shocked. Even my old DKP reached out to make sure he was okay, I miss her like crazy.

My little guy is just fine though, he probably didn't need any stitches - he would have healed just fine but I had to take him in to rule out concussion because of the way he was acting.

That is even more of a reason the whole situation should not have happened.

Where was the person that was suppose to be supervising the autistic child?
He should have been MORE supervised for his safety (and others).

Personally, I would call the child care and insist on speaking with the director as you have waited more than long enough...
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Old 08-12-2015, 10:34 AM
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That is even more of a reason the whole situation should not have happened.

Where was the person that was suppose to be supervising the autistic child?
He should have been MORE supervised for his safety (and others).

Personally, I would call the child care and insist on speaking with the director as you have waited more than long enough...
Yes. It's almost like they hope it will just go away. I understand your sweet son, who is adorable, is "okay," but he, or someone else might not be so fortunate next time. And from your description, what about the emotional damage done to boy who dropped him. From his response, hiding, etc... He feels bad or ashamed and that's unacceptable. He should have more increased supervision than a typically learning child. He shouldn't have the chance to hurt someone else.
I understand that accidents happen, but in the case of a special needs child, MORE should be done to prevent it. If I were older boys mom I would be livid that he wasn't supervised close enough to prevent this.
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Old 08-12-2015, 11:42 AM
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It just makes me really sad. I want everything to work out SO BADLY.
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Old 08-12-2015, 02:50 PM
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I spoke with the director this morning. She was there last night but gone by the time we finished getting medical attention.
I know you said you found out it was the lead teacher vs. the director who was there that night but I'm still shaking my head that this person in charge would leave before your son was finished getting medical attention.

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Update: I learned from a staff member that the child involved in the accident has autism. ... The staff member told me after it happened and my boy was on the ground being attended to the older child ran away and his behind a door inside the building. It is breaking my heart that it happened.

My stress level is just through the roof right now and my husband wants to call a lawyer if we don't get a phone call from the director today. It has been two days, I am feeling shocked.
It seems as though everyone but the person who should be speaking with you is speaking with you. It's crazy to me that the director would not have been on the phone to you shortly after the incident happened. At the very latest, she should have been on the phone to you the very first thing next morning assuming she may not have been notified right away. To wait 2 days or more before contacting you...? That's just unacceptable to me.

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Personally, I would call the child care and insist on speaking with the director as you have waited more than long enough...
I'm stunned at the lack of communication/response you've received from this day care director. If you still haven't heard from her, I think my next step would be to agree with your husband and contact a lawyer. If nothing else, it should get the director's attention. I think I'd be looking for a new day care as well.
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Old 08-12-2015, 03:21 PM
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I would be looking for a new place for my child at this point. Accidents happen (even though this one shouldn't have), but their refusal to even discuss it with you is an even bigger issue.
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Old 08-12-2015, 03:34 PM
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I agree.

My husband and I agreed we would finish out today and if we don't hear anything by pick up take the next step. That gives about 1 hour more and I will give one last chance if the lead on duty at pick up can get her on the phone for me while I am there today.

I feel I've given an ample amount of time. I LOVE the staff I deal with on a daily basis, it's crappy they have a boss that cares so little. I was "warned" by the assistant director this morning that it is the directors "day off" today but that there was still a chance I would hear from her.

I just get the feeling that she:
a) is avoiding me so she can get her documents and story straight
b) doesn't see this as an issue/doesn't care
c) has zero communication skills

I am trying my very best to see everything from both sides and be understanding and sympathetic, but this is MY CHILD, and I think it's a really big deal. I know it affected all of the staff who was there that day and THEY ALL CARE about my child and how he was doing. I feel like the director just sees him as a number, which is sad to me. I'll update y'all on my saga in the morning.
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Old 08-12-2015, 03:41 PM
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I agree.

My husband and I agreed we would finish out today and if we don't hear anything by pick up take the next step. That gives about 1 hour more and I will give one last chance if the lead on duty at pick up can get her on the phone for me while I am there today.

I feel I've given an ample amount of time. I LOVE the staff I deal with on a daily basis, it's crappy they have a boss that cares so little. I was "warned" by the assistant director this morning that it is the directors "day off" today but that there was still a chance I would hear from her.

I just get the feeling that she:
a) is avoiding me so she can get her documents and story straight
b) doesn't see this as an issue/doesn't care
c) has zero communication skills

I am trying my very best to see everything from both sides and be understanding and sympathetic, but this is MY CHILD, and I think it's a really big deal. I know it affected all of the staff who was there that day and THEY ALL CARE about my child and how he was doing. I feel like the director just sees him as a number, which is sad to me. I'll update y'all on my saga in the morning.
Have you called licensing? Because if you haven't I would now. Something is wrong in this situation. When a child gets hurt in my care (which is rare and usually fixed with a band aid thank goodness), I document it and discuss it with the parent THAT day. I don't want any parent to ever feel like I am hiding something.
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Old 08-13-2015, 07:14 AM
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So I gathered the directors information, made a phone call to her to which she answered and hung up when I said who I was.

I am a sucker for giving people the benefit of the doubt. I am livid right now.
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Old 08-13-2015, 07:25 AM
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So I gathered the directors information, made a phone call to her to which she answered and hung up when I said who I was.

I am a sucker for giving people the benefit of the doubt. I am livid right now.
Oh HECK no. Is this a one of the large chain centers or a small one?
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Old 08-13-2015, 07:43 AM
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You need to contact your licensing agency and file a complaint. There is a reason the Director is avoiding you and it appears she has something to hide. I would also be finding another child care arrangement, and I would not pay any fees associated with not providing notice of termination of care. I would also be finding out who they have liability insurance through and file a claim. If the Director is not speaking to you and you are unable to find out on your own, an attorney will certainly be able to obtain that information for you.

Personally, I wouldn't have tolerated the Director's lack of communication and transparency for nearly as long as you have. You are much more pateint than I
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Old 08-13-2015, 07:49 AM
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You need to contact your licensing agency and file a complaint. There is a reason the Director is avoiding you and it appears she has something to hide. I would also be finding another child care arrangement, and I would not pay any fees associated with not providing notice of termination of care. I would also be finding out who they have liability insurance through and file a claim. If the Director is not speaking to you and you are unable to find out on your own, an attorney will certainly be able to obtain that information for you.

Personally, I wouldn't have tolerated the Director's lack of communication and transparency for nearly as long as you have. You are much more pateint than I


Sorry you are going through this. I would pull my child, as well.
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Old 08-13-2015, 08:00 AM
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It is a large chain of I think 4 (but maybe 5) centers. They have busses to transport the school aged kids to and from school.

I have called back and left a voicemail and my husband called and left two voicemails and we called all of the other centers looking for her as well.

I called licensing and learned the center has 5 days to report the accident. I did not file a complaint at that time but explained the situation and the lady was very nice.
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Old 08-13-2015, 08:05 AM
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I think I would be parked outside her door until she looked me in the eye and explained herself
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Old 08-13-2015, 08:44 AM
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Ok a better update.

My husband just got off a long call with the director. She had Tuesday and Wednesday off work because of family in town. While she was notified of the accident, she says she did not understand the magnitude of it and was very sincere and apologetic.

He said he could tell their connection was spotty and she was having problems with her cell phone.

She did state that in the waiver signed it limits the liability of accidents but that this specific accident is out of the norm and it will likely be covered by their insurance and she will work on that end for us.

They spoke about how at the end of the days and beginning of the days that different levels are merged and they still maintain their ratios. I really think this accident was a wake up call for them though.

Anyway, I'm feeling a little bit better. I wish I had spoken to her myself but I trust my husbands judgement and he feela so much better. I will call back next week and make sure the incident was reported with licensing, just to check up.
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Old 08-13-2015, 09:22 AM
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In the future, if you are getting the runaround from a center on the phone, show up in person. They do not want an upset parent at their door while others are dropping off/ picking up. Also, most centers have someone higher up than the director. There is usually a person who owns or operates the center. Find out who this person is and contact them.
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Old 08-13-2015, 09:43 AM
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Ok a better update.

My husband just got off a long call with the director. She had Tuesday and Wednesday off work because of family in town. While she was notified of the accident, she says she did not understand the magnitude of it and was very sincere and apologetic.

He said he could tell their connection was spotty and she was having problems with her cell phone.

She did state that in the waiver signed it limits the liability of accidents but that this specific accident is out of the norm and it will likely be covered by their insurance and she will work on that end for us.

They spoke about how at the end of the days and beginning of the days that different levels are merged and they still maintain their ratios. I really think this accident was a wake up call for them though.

Anyway, I'm feeling a little bit better. I wish I had spoken to her myself but I trust my husbands judgement and he feela so much better. I will call back next week and make sure the incident was reported with licensing, just to check up.
Nope, nope nope nope to the bolded part above......... it is NOT legal to have parents sign off on liability and she knows it.
That's why she said this was out of the norm.

Parents can NOT sign off on liability so that the facility is not limited in their responsibility. Most people don't know that so centers and family child care providers get away with it all the time but it is not okay.

Here is an article about it that will help explain it... I would inform the director too. http://www.tomcopelandblog.com/2014/...otect-you.html

Did she say why she hung up on you earlier?
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Old 08-13-2015, 09:49 AM
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I would still be moving my child. The fact she hung up on you is a huge deal. I would still be livid and would be looking for a new place.
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Old 08-13-2015, 11:13 AM
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She is the owner as well as the director. Thank you for the links about the liability! That is great to know, I am looking into other options as well.

She said her cell phones coverage was bad
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Old 08-13-2015, 02:56 PM
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She is the owner as well as the director. Thank you for the links about the liability! That is great to know, I am looking into other options as well.

She said her cell phones coverage was bad
That is no excuse. Call her on that one and I bet you she finds another one.
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Old 08-13-2015, 04:41 PM
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I agree with the pps. I would also be looking for another center. I am a former center director of a large chain in my state, and dealt with many accidents that lead to injuries needing stitches, etc. Our protocol was always inform our President or if he was out on vacation the person next in command so they could do their thing to inform the company lawyers and insurance company. They were both always reachable 24/7. At the same time I would be filling out and sending in our liability insurance forms to the main office so they could send it to our insurance company. I always spoke to the injured child's parents that day, if I was gone for the day my lead teacher would call me and I would call the parents asap from wherever I was. We were taught never to leave the parents hanging until the next day. We always told the parents if there are medical expenses due to the injury, to let us know and send the bill to the main office. Thankfully the injuries were usually caused by the child themselves, and the parents really trusted us and not one at my center ever asked us to pay their medical expenses even though we offered. The parents were understanding and realized their children were just being kids/clumsy, etc and get hurt. I think it was also because we showed by our actions that we cared about their children, which unfortunately your son's center does not seem to be showing by not speaking to you immediately after the injury.
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Old 08-14-2015, 09:29 AM
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Thank you everyone. After a few phone calls with the director yesterday, we are feeling a lot better about the situation and I don't feel like I'll have any problems getting the medical bill paid. There was a co-owner who has recently passed away and it seems there needs to be a second in command person (maybe there is but I don't think the message got through to her as everyone THOUGHT the director was getting their messages and she was not).

I am going to call and get the report that was sent to licensing next week just so I can see it (or maybe it's standard practice the center will give me a copy), but what I saw, what I know, what my son says and what the daycare says happened that day all align.

She has addressed with the staff how to handle an instance of a child lifting another child off the ground. This autisitc child was yelled at to put my child down and got scared and dropped him. They are re-wording their response to be more calm and to say to set him down on his feet. I also think that all of the kids and staff members who were there that day have learned from this example, everyone feels awful.

That said, my "baby" gets his stitches out in 2 days! His head is healing up nicely and looks like it will only leave a tiny scar (if any) as long as I take care to always sunscreen it. He always reminds me to "be careful for his owie" when getting him dressed and undressed, but aside from that I don't think it bothers him much unless I am changing the bandage. I think he likes the attention and to answer questions about how it happened and how he is feeling. It's been a tough week, he's excited to get to go to the swimming pool once his stitches are removed.
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Old 08-15-2015, 08:46 AM
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You are a patient person and understanding person. I would be concerned and want a plan of action for the center regarding the rules of playground for the different age groups. Seeing those rules and how they are being enforced would be a part of my plan if I was going to keep my kiddo there. I would also want to know more about how the after school program handles special needs "inclusion". Often some of those children require the attention of a specially trained set of individuals.

Accidents do happen, but this is happening frequently.
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Old 08-15-2015, 09:47 AM
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I will let you know what I find out. I'm a little annoyed that I haven't been able to get more information as of yet. I spoke with the assistant director 3 hours ago and she told me the director will be calling me and I have yet to receive that call.

Not sure what standard procedure is, I feel like an idiot I didn't even know who the director of the center was until this happened.
I would call the OWNER not the director!!!
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Old 08-15-2015, 11:41 PM
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Wow I feel so bad for you and son yes accident s happen but yes this was avoidable if he was with kids his age size.in all my years doing in home daycare the worst injury at my place has been bloody nose for hot weather or falling inside bumping nose on something.last month at the pool in the bathroom I had a little one getting in bathroom shower to warm up as soon as I went to help him pull up his pants he pulled away and try to run (which he no better to run, since I was holding his pants he only got a little bloody lip but I felt so bad , it but it could of been wores like a busted head so I was glad I was sort of holding him. I would freak out if any thing worsed happened here. But im glad your son ok do whatever it takes good luck!
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Old 08-16-2015, 08:12 AM
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She has addressed with the staff how to handle an instance of a child lifting another child off the ground. This autisitc child was yelled at to put my child down and got scared and dropped him. They are re-wording their response to be more calm and to say to set him down on his feet.
What's their plan to prevent a child from being picked up by another child? I understand that they have a plan now in the instance that a child is picked up, but I'd be interested in what they're doing to prevent it from occurring in the first place.

I realize you can't prevent everything but IMO it needs to be a dual plan. How to prevent it from happening AND what to do if it does happen.

I had a situation where a child on the spectrum began masturbating here (fully clothed but still) and, after I dealt with the immediate issue, I came up with a plan to prevent future occurrences as well as what to do if the child did begin masturbating again.

Prevention is key.

Last edited by BumbleBee; 08-16-2015 at 08:13 AM. Reason: fixed quote
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Old 08-16-2015, 08:25 AM
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I would call the OWNER not the director!!!
Where I live an owner would be no help. Thats why they hire the director.
The director is the one that is suppose to know the rules and policies and the ins/outs of ECE best practice as well as what is developmentally appropriate for each age group and individulal child. Here an owner just owns the building and physical property.
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Old 08-17-2015, 08:38 AM
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In this case the owner and the director are the same person. There is not anything in their policies that says they always keep the levels separated but in a perfect world the levels would never mix. It comes down to staffing and the # of kids.

My son understands that he is not to be picked up and they are definitely keeping a special eye on him now, I do not think he will be picked up by another student again (but really it could have happened with kids his own age as well).

Aside from the accident the center has been so good for him. He is napping for the first time in over a year, he eats well and gets TONS of outdoor time. The added structure after all his years in the in home daycare is very needed and good for him. The staff is great and caring and I feel good that something like this won't happen again.
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Old 09-02-2015, 02:05 PM
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I ran into the director at the center on Monday. She was unbelievably nice and enthusiastic about child care and the safety of the kids.

She told me that the family of child who had picked up my son had been asked to leave the center. She told me that he continued to show two behaviors that were unacceptable in the center --one of them being picking up other children.

She explained that he wasn't a mean kid and he wasn't acting maliciously, he just lacked the understanding and liked to give big hugs (which led to feet being off the ground).
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Old 09-02-2015, 02:53 PM
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I ran into the director at the center on Monday. She was unbelievably nice and enthusiastic about child care and the safety of the kids.

She told me that the family of child who had picked up my son had been asked to leave the center. She told me that he continued to show two behaviors that were unacceptable in the center --one of them being picking up other children.

She explained that he wasn't a mean kid and he wasn't acting maliciously, he just lacked the understanding and liked to give big hugs (which led to feet being off the ground).
Aw, that makes me sad to hear.

Given that he had special needs, I fully believe his actions were the fault and/or responsibility of the staff person in charge of supervising him.

Glad to hear you met the director though and like her.
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Old 09-02-2015, 03:04 PM
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I have to agree with BC. Seems like a staff and supervision issue to me that could have been corrected simply by shadowing this child and redirecting him whenever he tried to pick up or "hug" a child.

Mom, now that the child is gone just make sure to reiterate that supervision at the daycare is essential no matter if they have special needs or not.
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Old 09-05-2015, 04:35 PM
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I am a Utah provider (Utah County)

If you have any questions at all about the care your son is receiving, you should contact licensing.

Licensing web site is

http://health.utah.gov/licensing/

You can check the daycare's record, contact the office near you etc..
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Old 09-08-2015, 08:33 AM
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Thank you Meeko (and I am very sorry to hear of your recent loss), I was curious to where you were located when I saw you were in Utah.

I contacted licensing the week of the accident. I was offered to file a complaint, which I chose not to do at that time. Licensing had not yet received a report of my son's injury. That reminds me I meant to call again and get a copy of the report once it had been filed --- soooo doing that now! Thanks!
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Old 09-08-2015, 09:04 AM
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So this is very interesting.

I called licensing to see about getting a copy of the report, which, if I understand correctly based off of my first phone call needed to be filed within 5 days of the accident (it has now been 30 days).

The person I spoke with told me she would get in touch with "my licensor" whom she also gave me contact information for, but she said that she does not have record of the accident! That person is supposed to return my call tomorrow as she is out doing inspections today.

I've spent my fair share of time working with government agencies and don't put a lot of faith into them for the most part. It is concerning that they do not have record of this though, correct?
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Old 09-08-2015, 04:21 PM
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So this is very interesting.

I called licensing to see about getting a copy of the report, which, if I understand correctly based off of my first phone call needed to be filed within 5 days of the accident (it has now been 30 days).

The person I spoke with told me she would get in touch with "my licensor" whom she also gave me contact information for, but she said that she does not have record of the accident! That person is supposed to return my call tomorrow as she is out doing inspections today.

I've spent my fair share of time working with government agencies and don't put a lot of faith into them for the most part. It is concerning that they do not have record of this though, correct?
Reports off injury are supposed to be filed online through the provider portal. I am guessing your center did not do it. Yes..you are right...it should have been done within 5 days. They will be inspected and cited if that is the case.
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Old 09-09-2015, 10:50 AM
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What will happen if the daycare gets cited?
Will my son still be able to go there? Will the staff now hate our family forever?

I still have not put a deposit in for infant care for my second son who is not born yet and if this incident is going to ruin our relationship I don't want to lose out on that money to hold a spot for my new baby.
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Old 09-09-2015, 10:57 AM
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What will happen if the daycare gets cited?
Will my son still be able to go there? Will the staff now hate our family forever?

I still have not put a deposit in for infant care for my second son who is not born yet and if this incident is going to ruin our relationship I don't want to lose out on that money to hold a spot for my new baby.
I'll be honest- I'm very surprised you would want to continue to send either/both of your children after they failed to notify licensing of such a major event.
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Old 09-09-2015, 11:09 AM
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I can see why that is shocking.

Honestly, what is wrong with me? I have such a problem with confrontation. My little son is so so happy there and I really didn't want to bounce him around (I hoped he would be with his home daycare provider forever, but decided to move him since she couldn't take my new baby).

Maybe it is just time to move again.
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Old 09-09-2015, 11:15 AM
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I can see why that is shocking.

Honestly, what is wrong with me? I have such a problem with confrontation. My little son is so so happy there and I really didn't want to bounce him around (I hoped he would be with his home daycare provider forever, but decided to move him since she couldn't take my new baby).

Maybe it is just time to move again.
I honestly would shop around and wait to see how this plays out before committing.

Accidents happen, and you're so understanding about the entire situation but unreported accidents do not happen to good providers. Many of us (myself included) self report incidents.
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Old 09-09-2015, 12:27 PM
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Update:

Licensing did not receive a report from the child care center. The correct person at licensing returned my call just now and told me she would get in touch with the center and get the report.

I shouldn't feel guilty, but I kind of do. Afterall, this was not MY mistake. I took my child to the doctor after he received an injury that he should have been seen for. I did my job as his parent.

I was also told by my child care center that a report had been filed, which it turns out was not the truth. For that, I should be upset. I now want a copy of that report more than I did before. I mostly wanted to make sure that what they told licensing happened was in line with what I was told happened. I don't want to have to "check up" on them.

So now I'm just feeling sad that people don't just follow the rules. It's probably time to start looking for child care..........again.
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Old 09-09-2015, 04:10 PM
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Meeko,

Can you please tell me if the portal is new?
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Old 09-09-2015, 08:00 PM
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I honestly would shop around and wait to see how this plays out before committing.

Accidents happen, and you're so understanding about the entire situation but unreported accidents do not happen to good providers. Many of us (myself included) self report incidents.
This.

Although I did once forget to submit one on time when I was the assistant director of a center. But we only have 24 hours in KY and it was late on a Friday. Submitted it on Monday and licensing basically just told us not to do it again.
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Old 09-11-2015, 08:45 AM
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So I know that licensing has now made a call to the director who in turn made a call to me.

I don't work in daycare and have only been working with a licensed daycare for 2 months (came from an unlicensed home daycare) so everything I know I have learned from this forum.

Because I took my son to a walk in clinic/urgent care rather than a hospital/ER does that mean that the daycare is not required to report? Daycare says they DID report the incident by faxing it to licensing and licensing says they didn't get it. I guess I misunderstood, I thought the report to licensing was something different than the "ouch report" that I signed and already have a copy of.

My intention is absolutely not to tattle and get anyone in trouble, and my job is not to make sure that my daycare follows the rules. I just want my kids to be safe. Daycare told me that their paperwork is now going to be audited by licensing, but if their paperwork is as good as they claim it is they should have nothing to worry about.
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Old 09-11-2015, 09:29 AM
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So I know that licensing has now made a call to the director who in turn made a call to me.

I don't work in daycare and have only been working with a licensed daycare for 2 months (came from an unlicensed home daycare) so everything I know I have learned from this forum.

Because I took my son to a walk in clinic/urgent care rather than a hospital/ER does that mean that the daycare is not required to report? Daycare says they DID report the incident by faxing it to licensing and licensing says they didn't get it. I guess I misunderstood, I thought the report to licensing was something different than the "ouch report" that I signed and already have a copy of.

My intention is absolutely not to tattle and get anyone in trouble, and my job is not to make sure that my daycare follows the rules. I just want my kids to be safe. Daycare told me that their paperwork is now going to be audited by licensing, but if their paperwork is as good as they claim it is they should have nothing to worry about.
I am required to report ANY injury that requires medical attention. The worst thing that has ever happened to me was a child was running to his mother at pickup, tripped over the area rug by the front door and chipped his tooth. His mom took him to the dentist, who wanted a crazy amount to fix it. I offered to pay for it, and dcm declined even getting it fixed. It was a tiny chip, purely cosmetic. Dcb was 'chip' for his remaining days here- and as far as I know even though that tooth has long since fallen out and replaced with an adult tooth- he is still Chip.

I filled out an ouch report (minor injuries/sent home with parents). I made an immediate phone call to my registrar and left it on her voicemail. THEN I filled out our states injury report form, scanned and emailed it to licensing. They did come out, go through all of my records, interview my kids and called this dcm to discuss it with her. I wasn't given any citations. I had nothing to hide.

I know the procedures vary by state, but if they self reported like they are supposed to, it wouldn't be surprising to receive a pop in licensing visit/inspection. That seems very standard.

If they did report it, they should have a copy of that report, with a fax/email trail to prove it was sent. They should only be concerned if they didn't report and have been lying to you and/or they have something to hide.
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Old 09-11-2015, 09:40 AM
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So I know that licensing has now made a call to the director who in turn made a call to me.

I don't work in daycare and have only been working with a licensed daycare for 2 months (came from an unlicensed home daycare) so everything I know I have learned from this forum.

Because I took my son to a walk in clinic/urgent care rather than a hospital/ER does that mean that the daycare is not required to report? Daycare says they DID report the incident by faxing it to licensing and licensing says they didn't get it. I guess I misunderstood, I thought the report to licensing was something different than the "ouch report" that I signed and already have a copy of.

My intention is absolutely not to tattle and get anyone in trouble, and my job is not to make sure that my daycare follows the rules. I just want my kids to be safe. Daycare told me that their paperwork is now going to be audited by licensing, but if their paperwork is as good as they claim it is they should have nothing to worry about.
I am not understanding why the director in turn made a call to you?
The issue should be between her and licensing if they really did fax the report in. Also, where is her confirmation that the fax actually went through? I don't buy that they faxed it but licensing didn't get it.
I also don't like that they are now telling you that their paperwork will now be audited....that isn't because of YOU or your actions. It's because of THEIR failure to actually do what they are required to do. Actually it's because they allowed a special needs child to be unsupervised. THAT is probably going to come back and bite them MORE than failure to report.
I understand your child is happy at the center but considering all the lies and untruths that have been told to you, I'd be questioning everything at this point. I don't know but this whole situation could have been so much worse so I'm happy it wasn't but I am growing more uncomfortable with their methods of practice (both with the kids and with business in general) each time you post an update. I agree, it might just be time to move on.
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Old 09-11-2015, 10:05 AM
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I am kind of feeling like I got mixed information from the director. At one point she said that she faxed it. Then she mentioned the portal, which allegedly is new and she didn't know about it. Then she mentioned that because he was not hospitalized it didn't need to be reported, but licensing thinks he was hospitalized.

She called to "check up and make sure everything is okay" -- because she couldn't understand why I called licensing because she thought this was behind us.

Also the report does not state anywhere that the child has special needs, that was something that I found out later from a staff member who was there at the time of the accident, who attended to my son's injury. I do not know anything about that other child or even if he is diagnosed special needs or if it is speculation from that staff member, or even that it's true.
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Old 09-11-2015, 10:49 AM
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This,sounds to me like a lack of understanding between you and the director. I don't know if this center is trying to hide anything or not, but it sounds to me like the director thought she had done what,was required and had smoothed things over with you. I can see why she is questioning you calling licensing, because she thought everything was fine and now you call to report it. It is a confidentiality issue as to why it was not mentioned on the report that this,was a child with special needs, we are not allowed to say anything that would allow a parent to know what other child was involved in the incident. Depending on your state, it may not be reportable unless he was hospitalized. I think it is time for you and the director to have a sit down meeting to discuss the situation, or you need to find a new daycare, because right now it sounds like a trust issue is going on with you.
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Old 09-11-2015, 10:51 AM
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(4) The provider shall give parents a written report of every incident, accident, or injury involving their child on the day of occurrence. The caregivers involved, the center director, and the person picking the child up shall sign the report on the day of occurrence.

Rationale / Explanation

The purpose of this rule is to ensure that parents are informed of every incident involving their child. This is important to protect both the provider and the child. Without an injury report, parents may not know to watch their child for possible harm that may turn out to be more serious than was immediately apparent. For example, a child may seem okay after a fall, but may actually have a concussion. Incident reports can also allow providers to recognize Injury patterns and possible abuse to a child. CFOC, pgs. 369-370 Standard 8.062 Enforcement

The following are examples of incidents for which a incident, accident, or injury report must be completed:

*any injury that requires medical treatment (a copy must also be submitted to licensing).
*two children fighting such that one needs medical treatment (incident reports should be completed for both children).
*any bites that break the skin, or one child being bitten frequently or biting frequently.
*any abuse or inappropriate touching that happens in the child care, even when the perpetrator is a child.
*forgetting to pick up a child from school.
*a child escaping or leaving the premises without a provider.

If the person picking up a child refuses to sign or take the incident report, the center will not be found out of compliance with this rule, provided they can demonstrate that they have an effective process in place to get same-day signatures on reports, and have made a good faith effort to follow that process.

http://www.daycare.com/utah/utah-day...uirements.html
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  #64  
Old 09-11-2015, 10:56 AM
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I am kind of feeling like I got mixed information from the director. At one point she said that she faxed it. Then she mentioned the portal, which allegedly is new and she didn't know about it. Then she mentioned that because he was not hospitalized it didn't need to be reported, but licensing thinks he was hospitalized. .
As a director it is HER responsibility to know the regulations. Stating she "thought" reports must be filed only when a child is hospitalized is a cop out. She should know the rules and regulations or she shouldn't be a director.

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She called to "check up and make sure everything is okay" -- because she couldn't understand why I called licensing because she thought this was behind us.
It shouldn't have mattered that you called licensing. If she were honest, truthful and absolutely transparent about the situation in it's entirety, there would be zero issues.
As a provider, I have NO issues with anyone calling licensing in regards to my program because I have NOTHING to hide and abide by my states licensing regulations at all times. If I don't know something, I find out. Not only to protect myself but for the family's well being too.
Personally, I think there is more to the story than the director is letting on and she is doing damage control now. But feigning ignorance of a rule or state requirement is NOT an excuse.
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Old 09-11-2015, 11:12 AM
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I think from the start it has been handled poorly. If the child had special needs then more supervision was needed. After the incident you had difficulty getting a response, including a hang up. The plan in the future to avoid injury was to phrase how a picked up child should be set down differently. The plan should have been how to increase supervision, and make a plan to avoid other children being picked up in the first place. A report that was required to be sent was not. The dance continues.

An error happened. Ideally they would have owned up to that, followed proper procedures, and made changes to prevent it happening again. It seems like there has been plenty of avoidance and hope that this incident would just be forgotten about.
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Old 09-11-2015, 12:15 PM
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I wish it never happened and I wasn't in this position.
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Old 09-14-2015, 10:12 AM
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I am kind of feeling like I got mixed information from the director. At one point she said that she faxed it. Then she mentioned the portal, which allegedly is new and she didn't know about it. Then she mentioned that because he was not hospitalized it didn't need to be reported, but licensing thinks he was hospitalized.

She called to "check up and make sure everything is okay" -- because she couldn't understand why I called licensing because she thought this was behind us.

Also the report does not state anywhere that the child has special needs, that was something that I found out later from a staff member who was there at the time of the accident, who attended to my son's injury. I do not know anything about that other child or even if he is diagnosed special needs or if it is speculation from that staff member, or even that it's true.
The portal is fairly new...but her saying she didn't know is crazy. First off...the reg is clear....any injury requiring medical attention must be reported.

Secondly...providers here have been inundated with letters, E-mails, postcards etc...all talking about the provider portal. It's how we renew licenses etc. All traing classes start with as reminder about the portal. Unless she's been camping at the north pole...there is no way she couldn't have known.

If she sent a fax, she should have a confirmation page. I personally think she's lying to you.
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Old 09-14-2015, 10:44 AM
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Thank you,

I feel like she has done a little bit of covering tracks/little lies. The daycare is a mess, really struggling with staffing and other issues it seems.

I'm putting in some inquries for other centers near by, and haven't put a deposit for my new little guy yet. I'm gonna wait and see what I come up with as far as other centers. I like it here, but have had mixed feelings and we've only been at the center for 2 months.
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Old 09-14-2015, 10:51 AM
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Thank you,

I feel like she has done a little bit of covering tracks/little lies. The daycare is a mess, really struggling with staffing and other issues it seems.

I'm putting in some inquries for other centers near by, and haven't put a deposit for my new little guy yet. I'm gonna wait and see what I come up with as far as other centers. I like it here, but have had mixed feelings and we've only been at the center for 2 months.
Go to Utah's Care about Childcare web site. You can research all daycares in your area, see their licensing records, link to their websites if they have any etc. It's the state's official website for parents who are searching. Sure saves a lot of looking around.
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Old 09-14-2015, 10:55 AM
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OH...and if your current center takes any state aid at all....she HAS to use the portal. She wouldn't be approved if she wasn't registered and using it.
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Old 09-14-2015, 11:55 AM
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Talking to her again she knew about the portal and just thinks her system is better since it has parent signatures on it and the portal is all on the computer/so no parent signatures.

We'll see. I expect that licensing will be looking into it and call me if they have any questions. If her records are good and she really has nothing to hide she should have nothing to worry about. I just worry that maybe they have such a "clean" record only because they are failing to report stuff that should be reported.
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Old 09-14-2015, 03:52 PM
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Lucky me, I am stuck in an insurance nightmare.
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Old 09-17-2015, 06:42 AM
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Just wondering if the insurance nightmare is getting cleared up and how things are?
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Old 09-18-2015, 08:04 AM
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Thank you.

I hope it is. I was trying to be as helpful as possible to the daycare and offered to pay the bill so they could just reimburse me. Daycare says "No, our accident insurance will cover it and pay it directly, please call your insurance company/billing office and let them know".

Since I have a high deductible plan, my insurance hadn't paid anything. I called anyway to let them know and they asked for all kinds of information that I have been unable to get from the daycare center (I eventually just gave them the director's phone number). Then I called the billing department who said she would send a HCFA form and stated that that is what the daycare's accident insurance would need to pay the bill. Daycare says they don't need that form, only an EOB from MY INSURANCE company, but this shows the negotiated rate between my insurance company and the billing department. She said if they just pay that, it will leave a balance less the negotiated rate.

Either way, I feel like it's out of my control now. If for some reason the daycare doesn't pay it, I am going to be stuck with the whole bill (plus, I won't get the negotiated rate that my insurance company gets because now they feel it was not their responsibility to pay). Hopefully they do, the bill was due on the 16th, and I know for sure it wasn't going to be paid by then.
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Old 09-18-2015, 10:42 AM
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oh man. Have you spoken to licensing again? Insurance hassles are a nightmare. I wouldn't pay the bill, because that's admitting you're responsible for it. I would tell the director it is her responsibility to pay it and THEY can wait for insurance reimbursement. Pretty soon, it will bump to collections and be on your credit report.
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Old 09-18-2015, 11:18 AM
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oh man. Have you spoken to licensing again? Insurance hassles are a nightmare. I wouldn't pay the bill, because that's admitting you're responsible for it. I would tell the director it is her responsibility to pay it and THEY can wait for insurance reimbursement. Pretty soon, it will bump to collections and be on your credit report.
Exactly, the girl in billing advised me not to pay it also. She said that there are no late fees or anything until it is 60 days past due. They will send a bill out at the 30 day mark and at 60 days it will go to collections.

I told daycare it needs to be taken care of before it goes 30 days late. I am a little concerned since they are asking that I provide them with the EOB and stating that they do not need a HCFA (which is what I was told they need). I told them that I'm just going to give them copies of everything that I am sent and they can sort through it. I'm willing to bet the insurance company is the same as mine since it's the most popular one in the area, but insurance claims and medical billing is something I don't have a lot of familiarity with.
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Old 01-12-2016, 08:00 AM
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Wish I didn't have to resurrect this thread.

But the bill from my son's accident in August is still unpaid. It went through my insurance, daycare's insurance (who only paid $36), and left a balance to be paid.

The director says she "thought it had been taken care of by her insurance company" which is bizarre to me since I received an EOB from them and I would assume she would have too. I dropped off the bill with my kids yesterday.

I originally thought that the full bill would be covered and I would be reimbursed for what I had paid, but that's out the window now. I'm just so livid I have probably made 30+ phone calls on this and it should not take over 5 months to make this right.
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