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Old 08-25-2016, 05:43 AM
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Witty Witty is offline
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Default Daughter Being "Held Back" in Classroom

So, long story short:

My daughter has attended the same highly-rated daycare center since she was an infant and we've been really happy until now. Her birthday is August 16th, which means she'll turn 5 right before our county cut-off for kindergarten. Last year she started in the 2 year-old room right when she turned 2, and has been in there a full year. Was told repeatedly that she'd be moving up to the 3 year-old room at the start of the new "daycare year" (August 16th), and I talked up the transition with her for weeks, stopping by her "new classroom" and talking about her growing up into a big girl with a new teacher.

Only a few days before she's due to start, we're informed that they decided to make TWO 3-year-old classrooms, Classroom A and Classroom B. Except classroom A is for ages 2.5 to 3.5, and classroom B is for ages 3.5-4. Classroom A is the exact same room as the old 2 year-old room, with the exact same toys. Different teacher and different name. My daughter and a few other kids are the oldest kids in that class, and even though it's supposed to be ages 2.5-3.5, there is a 28 month old there and 4 children (out of 14) that are not potty-trained.

We've been told that our kids will not move into Classroom B upon turning 3.5; they will be in classroom A for the entire year. We were also told that the lesson plans will be the exact same for Classroom A and Classroom B, but I can't possibly see how that will happen since there is almost a full year age difference in the classrooms.

I think they just accepted "new" kids into the older classroom without first giving preference to the established kids who need to move up with grade level to be prepared for kindergarten. It was a money-hungry move with no regard to what is best for the kids, and the communication has been HORRIBLE about it.

Myself and parents of 4 other kids "stuck" in Classroom A met with the Director and voiced our concerns and were given the run-around about how the education would be the same, yadda yadda yadda. Am I overreacting in seriously considering pulling my child out?
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Old 08-25-2016, 07:17 AM
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If she turned 3 on August 16, wouldn't it make sense that she was put into the room for 2.5-3.5 year olds?

There are only so many spaces available, and there are sometimes choices that have to be made. I'm guessing that the decision was based on your daughter's age and the needs of the other kids and the owner of the center.

As far as curriculum? To that, I say don't sweat it. A 3 year old needs to PLAY, not "get an education". I purposely chose a place for my son to attend that does NOT focus on academics-a play program is what is best for any child that age. "Education" at that age is to please the parents, not to benefit the child.
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Old 08-25-2016, 07:21 AM
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Honestly, yes I think you're over reacting a tad. I think the communication could have been way better, and you probably wouldn't have been so upset if you would have known what to expect sooner and that's on them. But if your daughter is only 3, she has plenty of time to be ready for kindergarten and being in a class with only slightly older children isn't going to affect her readiness. I have my own opinions on teaching kindergarten readiness at this age, but in the grand scheme of things, she'll learn what she is ready to learn when she is ready to learn it regardless of who is in her class and what is being "taught".
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Old 08-25-2016, 07:41 AM
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My concerns center a lot around academics and social development. By staying in the same classroom my daughter does not get to experience the new play centers, learning activities, etc available in the "established" 3 year-old room. She's stuck in a room tailored for 2 year olds with the same toys and experiences she'd had for a full year. We chose this center based largely in part of the academics and because it's full-Spanish immersion. They loudly tout their academics, so we expect academics. I'm not talking about sitting down learning algebra, but I expect 3 year-olds to be learning numbers past 10 and letters/sounds of the alphabet, which I can't see happening based on the age group she's in. We do that at home, but she's at daycare for 7 hours a day and I want her to be learning at a 3-year old level there as well. They say the class is for 2.5-3.5 year-olds, but in reality it's more like 2.2-3 year-olds, with my daughter and a few children being the oldest (as they were for the latter part of the year in their 2-year old classroom this "older" group all has birthdays between August 15th and September 6th). I would have far less concerns if the 3 year classrooms were divided into 3-3.5 and 3.5-4, but that's not the way it's being done.

By being the oldest, she's not learning from older peers important social clues and pretend play. I have another daughter who's due in November. I expect my second to be the oldest in her class for all of her education based on her birthdate. That's the way life is, and I'm fine with it. But my oldest will be the youngest in her school group, and by not moving her up now she will be stuck with the "younger" age group until kindergarten, when she'll suddenly be thrown into a group of kids where she's the youngest. That's not fair to her, and it's not in her best interest in the long run. She needs to learn how older children handle their emotions so she can mirror it, how older peers play, how to draw squares and color in the lines. She doesn't need another year of being stuck in what is essentially a 2-year-old classroom.
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Old 08-25-2016, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Witty View Post
My concerns center a lot around academics and social development. By staying in the same classroom my daughter does not get to experience the new play centers, learning activities, etc available in the "established" 3 year-old room. She's stuck in a room tailored for 2 year olds with the same toys and experiences she'd had for a full year. We chose this center based largely in part of the academics and because it's full-Spanish immersion. They loudly tout their academics, so we expect academics. I'm not talking about sitting down learning algebra, but I expect 3 year-olds to be learning numbers past 10 and letters/sounds of the alphabet, which I can't see happening based on the age group she's in. We do that at home, but she's at daycare for 7 hours a day and I want her to be learning at a 3-year old level there as well. They say the class is for 2.5-3.5 year-olds, but in reality it's more like 2.2-3 year-olds, with my daughter and a few children being the oldest (as they were for the latter part of the year in their 2-year old classroom this "older" group all has birthdays between August 15th and September 6th). I would have far less concerns if the 3 year classrooms were divided into 3-3.5 and 3.5-4, but that's not the way it's being done.

By being the oldest, she's not learning from older peers important social clues and pretend play. I have another daughter who's due in November. I expect my second to be the oldest in her class for all of her education based on her birthdate. That's the way life is, and I'm fine with it. But my oldest will be the youngest in her school group, and by not moving her up now she will be stuck with the "younger" age group until kindergarten, when she'll suddenly be thrown into a group of kids where she's the youngest. That's not fair to her, and it's not in her best interest in the long run. She needs to learn how older children handle their emotions so she can mirror it, how older peers play, how to draw squares and color in the lines. She doesn't need another year of being stuck in what is essentially a 2-year-old classroom.
This is a textbook example of how little parents understand the importance of peer interaction.

Your DD does NOT need the older children to show her anything. She needs the younger children so she can grow and develop her own skills and independence. That happens through confidence and self-esteem building.

She will naturally take the lead and be the child that leads others and we need more leaders in this world not more followers.

I suggest you stop worrying about the academics and worry more about your daughters individual success and development. Older peers are NOT necessary for any skill or milestone to be mastered.

You need to stop comparing the age groups of the kids in the center as age really means nothing but how to chronologically count how many years, months or days we have been alive. Maturity and skill set define successful development and since all children develop at their own pace it's sad that you are pushing your daughter verses celebrating HER development at HER own pace.

Focusing so heavily on her age in comparison to others is going to ultimately make her feel as if she doesn't measure up and she will more than likely feel as if she needs to scramble to keep pace with her older classmates. It's a much happier and kinder childhood if you stop making it a race.

My program is heavily influenced by the teachings and philosophies of Maria Montessori and although there can be positives relationships formed with older peers, the relationship between the child and their YOUNGER peers is much more heavily focused on and much more beneficial for the child.

The successes and milestones gained when constantly and continuously being reinforced with the positives of being a role model, a leader and an example for the younger playmates will serve her much better in life than the constant battle to keep up with those that are older and farther along in their development.
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Old 08-25-2016, 08:19 AM
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First, if you feel like the daycare is no longer a good fit for your daughter, I would look into other places. Make a list and weigh the pros and cons of moving her. She has been at this place since infancy, so is moving her at this point worse than the classroom issue? Are there even other preschool options where you will get what you are looking for so you don't move her and run into the same issue? Ect.

Now, as for the classroom/age issue, I do think you are over thinking it all. Play is a huge part of learning and she is a very young 3 at this point, so I would see how this year goes and take it from there. She will be four next year and in the older classroom, so she will get to experience before she leaves the daycare, just not this year. (as for being with the same kids...kids come and go in daycares and schools, so trust me, you will meet more of her classmates than you will know what to do with as she gets older)

The cool thing is, your daughter will get the amazing opportunity to be the oldest in her class (a leader), as well as the youngest in her kindergarten class. She gets to experience what it is like to be both and that is great! Another option, if she gets close to kindergarten and you feel she is not ready (she will be a very young 5), don't send her. I didn't send mine till 6, but every kid is different, so just don't rush it and keep that option in mind.

The academic thing is so over rated and I actually think it might be a great thing for your daughter to stay in the younger group. They will probably use a more play based method of learning and I bet she will excel at it and have way more fun. She gets to play and be a kid for another year! The 3 year old learning level includes mostly just play time. That is how they learn. I just feel like some parents put too much emphasis on the academics and not enough on play, self help skills, manners, sleep and eating habits, ect.
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  #7  
Old 08-25-2016, 11:43 AM
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If your center is rated the age groups are not really up to them. The indicators for lesson planning, documentation and observation are sectored 0-12mths, 12-24mths, 24-36mths, 36-48mths and 48-60mths. Usually.
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Old 08-25-2016, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Witty View Post

By being the oldest, she's not learning from older peers important social clues and pretend play.
IMHO, You have that so wrong. I have a highly sought after ,mixed age group, program and I am so very selective on who I allow to be the oldest.

I actively push kids out who do not have the empathy, perseverance, independence, creativity and natural leadership skills to be the oldest, here.

Being selected to be the oldest, when the staff was given the easier option of pushing her out, will give your daughter the opportunity to teach, lead, nurture and grow in ways you cannot imagine.

Ask your boss which she/he would prefer. Lead dog or runt.
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Old 08-25-2016, 02:27 PM
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I will add some research to the discussion. http://www.parentingscience.com/pres...al-skills.html

It's a common misconception that preschool children will develop social skills from their peers. Children need adult models to develop good social skills. If your child has great teachers, you are in good shape.

As for academics, all the current research states that a play based model is best for preschool children.

https://www.naeyc.org/content/resear...ay-vs-learning

http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/12/2...dren.learning/
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Old 08-25-2016, 02:43 PM
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Honestly, there are so many things wrong with your concerns. Children learn to use the same toy in different ways as they mature. They do not need a new set of toys. They need time and space to learn to use the in new ways.

Academics is not a reason to move to a new classroom. Jeez. She's a kid. Let her play.

Black Cat has it dead on. Let her be the oldest in the room. Maybe she'll learn to be a good leader.

Your daughter will be negatively effected by this non-change if you keep your negative attitude. She will need you to find the positive in this and help her transition to her new role in her same room.

Think of all the highly-successful-in-kindergarten kids who spent the whole of their childhood in a family program - the same room, same teacher, same kids.

Sounds like a first world problem to me.
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Old 08-25-2016, 03:18 PM
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https://www.aei.org/publication/what...rly-childhood/
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Old 08-26-2016, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
This is a textbook example of how little parents understand the importance of peer interaction.

Your DD does NOT need the older children to show her anything. She needs the younger children so she can grow and develop her own skills and independence. That happens through confidence and self-esteem building.

She will naturally take the lead and be the child that leads others and we need more leaders in this world not more followers.

I suggest you stop worrying about the academics and worry more about your daughters individual success and development. Older peers are NOT necessary for any skill or milestone to be mastered.

You need to stop comparing the age groups of the kids in the center as age really means nothing but how to chronologically count how many years, months or days we have been alive. Maturity and skill set define successful development and since all children develop at their own pace it's sad that you are pushing your daughter verses celebrating HER development at HER own pace.

Focusing so heavily on her age in comparison to others is going to ultimately make her feel as if she doesn't measure up and she will more than likely feel as if she needs to scramble to keep pace with her older classmates. It's a much happier and kinder childhood if you stop making it a race.

My program is heavily influenced by the teachings and philosophies of Maria Montessori and although there can be positives relationships formed with older peers, the relationship between the child and their YOUNGER peers is much more heavily focused on and much more beneficial for the child.

The successes and milestones gained when constantly and continuously being reinforced with the positives of being a role model, a leader and an example for the younger playmates will serve her much better in life than the constant battle to keep up with those that are older and farther along in their development.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
IMHO, You have that so wrong. I have a highly sought after ,mixed age group, program and I am so very selective on who I allow to be the oldest.

I actively push kids out who do not have the empathy, perseverance, independence, creativity and natural leadership skills to be the oldest, here.

Being selected to be the oldest, when the staff was given the easier option of pushing her out, will give your daughter the opportunity to teach, lead, nurture and grow in ways you cannot imagine.

Ask your boss which she/he would prefer. Lead dog or runt.
this this this!

As a preschool teacher with a mixed age classroom, yes! My older children learn and grow in ways you cannot possibly imagine.

Also, I am so sad at your lack of understanding about how learning happens. Your child can learn only what her brain is ready to learn. Most children at 3 can easily rote count higher than 10. Do they understand the 1:1 correspondence? No. Most children know some/all letters. Some know letter sounds. Does it mean they learn to read faster? No. I have had children know these things at 18m, and NOT reading at the end of Kindergarten. I have children who come to me at 4 knowing nothing and are reading in a few months, well before K.

K readiness is a buzz-phrase developmentally inappropriate centers use to tout their academic program to unknowing parents. YOU/THEY cannot get your child 'kindergarten ready'. Your child is ready when she is ready.

Also- far more important than academics for kindergarten readiness-social and self helps skills and emotional intelligence. A child who is a good friend, a good listener, who can follow rules and directions well, can be kind and assertive when needed, shows empathy and compassion, is responsible, respectful and courteous is FAR more valued than a child who has none of those skills who knows the alphabet.

The academic playing field is leveled by grade 2-3, regardless of what child learned the ABC's earlier.
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Old 08-30-2016, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Witty View Post
My concerns center a lot around academics and social development. By staying in the same classroom my daughter does not get to experience the new play centers, learning activities, etc available in the "established" 3 year-old room. She's stuck in a room tailored for 2 year olds with the same toys and experiences she'd had for a full year. We chose this center based largely in part of the academics and because it's full-Spanish immersion. They loudly tout their academics, so we expect academics. I'm not talking about sitting down learning algebra, but I expect 3 year-olds to be learning numbers past 10 and letters/sounds of the alphabet, which I can't see happening based on the age group she's in. We do that at home, but she's at daycare for 7 hours a day and I want her to be learning at a 3-year old level there as well. They say the class is for 2.5-3.5 year-olds, but in reality it's more like 2.2-3 year-olds, with my daughter and a few children being the oldest (as they were for the latter part of the year in their 2-year old classroom this "older" group all has birthdays between August 15th and September 6th). I would have far less concerns if the 3 year classrooms were divided into 3-3.5 and 3.5-4, but that's not the way it's being done.

By being the oldest, she's not learning from older peers important social clues and pretend play. I have another daughter who's due in November. I expect my second to be the oldest in her class for all of her education based on her birthdate. That's the way life is, and I'm fine with it. But my oldest will be the youngest in her school group, and by not moving her up now she will be stuck with the "younger" age group until kindergarten, when she'll suddenly be thrown into a group of kids where she's the youngest. That's not fair to her, and it's not in her best interest in the long run. She needs to learn how older children handle their emotions so she can mirror it, how older peers play, how to draw squares and color in the lines. She doesn't need another year of being stuck in what is essentially a 2-year-old classroom.
You can and should be the person to teach your child new things. An academic environment is not appropriate for this age. Your child will be more than ready for kindergarten WHEN kindergarten starts. The push for early academics doesn't make any sense and it doesn't make a child smarter or ahead of any of the other kids at all.

Let her be a kid!
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Old 08-30-2016, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daycarediva View Post
this this this!

As a preschool teacher with a mixed age classroom, yes! My older children learn and grow in ways you cannot possibly imagine.

Also, I am so sad at your lack of understanding about how learning happens. Your child can learn only what her brain is ready to learn. Most children at 3 can easily rote count higher than 10. Do they understand the 1:1 correspondence? No. Most children know some/all letters. Some know letter sounds. Does it mean they learn to read faster? No. I have had children know these things at 18m, and NOT reading at the end of Kindergarten. I have children who come to me at 4 knowing nothing and are reading in a few months, well before K.

K readiness is a buzz-phrase developmentally inappropriate centers use to tout their academic program to unknowing parents. YOU/THEY cannot get your child 'kindergarten ready'. Your child is ready when she is ready.

Also- far more important than academics for kindergarten readiness-social and self helps skills and emotional intelligence. A child who is a good friend, a good listener, who can follow rules and directions well, can be kind and assertive when needed, shows empathy and compassion, is responsible, respectful and courteous is FAR more valued than a child who has none of those skills who knows the alphabet.

The academic playing field is leveled by grade 2-3, regardless of what child learned the ABC's earlier.
Yes!! I believe a child that says please and thank you is smarter and more mature than a child that rotes the ABCs.

I think the number 1 things parents should be worried about teaching their children(PARENTS not a center) is all the things you mentioned. These things hold way more value to a young child's development than anything else. They have many years of school ahead but will go nowhere without these life skills.
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Old 09-02-2016, 09:23 AM
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As a parent who is in almost the exact same situation as you, I COMPLETELY understand your frustrations. You have prepared your child for something that is not going to happen for another year and THAT is frustrating and it really doesn't seem fair.

My other questions is what are they doing with the younger 2s if they are turning the 2s classroom into a 2.5-3.5 classroom? And if she will be in that classroom for a year, does that mean that she will still be there when she turns 4?

My 4.5 year old is in the same classroom as young 3s who are supposed to be potty trained but he tells me when kids poop their pants and it happens on a regular basis---He gets along so much better with older kids and struggles with the younger kids (I try to use it as a learning opportunity, but lately it's been hard). I have also been pushing to get him moved to the pre-k classroom. I thought he would be moved when kindergarten started and he wasn't and it's frustrating. I get it.
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Old 09-02-2016, 09:56 AM
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I should add that my little guy has been in the same class for 1 year and 2 months. For the last 2 months he has done the EXACT same curriculum that he did when he first started in this daycare center.

I don't even think he knows it. I haven't told him. He still has fun with it and comes home happy.
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