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  #101  
Old 05-04-2014, 06:11 AM
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Myself, I think that charging a customer for a service that is not being provided is blasphemy. I myself own two businesses, one with 40 employees, so I hope that my opinion is taken into consideration.

My employees get vacation time, yes, it is an EMPLOYEE BENIFIT. But do I charge my customers to pay for my employees to go on vacation? Of course not!! This is an overhead cost to running a business. As a business owner, I am stuck with overhead costs.

As a dayhome, these people are running their own business. This cost should be their overhead as well. If they want to pay themselves during their vacation time, it should come out of their profit margins just like every other business out there. A business is a business, you provide a good or service. Charging customers for a service that isn't being provided is NOT RIGHT. It is poor business and, in my opinion, theft. Anyone in their right mind who signs a contract agreeing to this term is an idiot.
I am just laughing OUT LOUD!

Gym memberships, massage montly fee programs, cable companies, AND MORE: they all charge you for a flat premium that most likely, they know you won't use all of the benefit. They KNOW people sign up thinking "Oh yeah, I'll need to use this" (especially gym membership) and then they don't go. these companies make money off services they don't provide, and KNOW they are unlikely to provide the amount of service they charge for. The bottom line? If the consumer signs the contract, it's a fair practice and the consumer has to pay. Or else? They lose their ability to use the service and get sent to collections or court. Consumers don't like that? They shouldn't sign the dotted line!!!
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  #102  
Old 05-06-2014, 01:03 PM
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Also think about if you took a weeks vacation and stayed in a hotel with your family. Would you call your landlord/bank and ask to not pay that weeks rent/mortgage since you weren't there and had to pay someone else?
Uh, have to disagree there. A mortgage payment for a home that is yours and that will be there when you return is a tad different then paying someone that has not performed a service.

I completely understand that the providers need their time, but this is the line of work they chose, and getting "paid" vacations when you work for a company or state or any other line of work that pays their employees benefits is different from a daycare.

Daycare is expensive as it is, I wouldn't pay a landscape company when they take vacations and don't mow my lawn? I don't pay my paper boy vacations or pay for a newspaper that I wouldn't receive? Do you pay your mechanic if he doesn't fix your car? People work for many places that DO NOT provide benefits, and that is the breaks, I worked for a restaurant they did not pay anything! But I made tips so that was the offset. A daycare is a service of caring for your child, and in my opinion if you are not performing that service than why should you get paid for it?

I can understand the other way around if the parent takes the vacation they must pay. That I get, but if that's the case than why doesn't the parent pay for the daycare providers insurance too?? That's because as a SELF EMPLOYED person you are faced with that. For example you are self employed as a house cleaner, do the homeowners pay for your vacations when you won't be cleaning their home? My very good friend owned her own floral store and so that makes her a self employed individual, I never heard of people having to pay for her vacation?

I understand that the providers need breaks, we all need breaks, of course. But home daycare is a business they chose, concerns of benefits and paid vacations are reasons why self employed people decide to work for someone/company that can afford to provide employees with these benefits. Parents are usually struggling as it is to pay daycare so charging them when you are not performing a service I feel is not so fair. As I said, if we are to pay your vacations then why are we not paying your healthcare or other benefits?

That is why I work for a company that provides these benefits to me. But maybe I should go in to the daycare business.
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  #103  
Old 05-06-2014, 01:16 PM
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And also, paying for a gym membership when you don't go, is not even the same thing. If you don't go, then it's your fault that you don't utilize your gym membership. Let's compare apples to apples. My gym doesn't close for 2 weeks out of the year either or every single holiday they can.

I realize that this can be looked at from different angles but as a parent that pays for a home daycare I am obviously stating my side. You can't assume that everyone that pays for daycare is rolling in the dough like some people are, and can afford to pay for your vacations and then have to pay someone else to watch their child while you are on vacation. Just doesn't seem fair. As I said if someone was mowing my lawn every week in the summer, and he was going on vacation with his family, I wouldn't be paying him and then paying someone else to mow it at the same time?

I'm not comparing my child to a lawn or any other commercial service and I am happy with my home daycare but I just find it unfair because not getting a paid vacation is the downside to being self employed. Along with having to pay taxes to be self employed, license fees, health insurance, dental etc etc.
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  #104  
Old 05-06-2014, 04:39 PM
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Uh, have to disagree there. A mortgage payment for a home that is yours and that will be there when you return is a tad different then paying someone that has not performed a service.

I completely understand that the providers need their time, but this is the line of work they chose, and getting "paid" vacations when you work for a company or state or any other line of work that pays their employees benefits is different from a daycare.

Daycare is expensive as it is, I wouldn't pay a landscape company when they take vacations and don't mow my lawn? I don't pay my paper boy vacations or pay for a newspaper that I wouldn't receive? Do you pay your mechanic if he doesn't fix your car? People work for many places that DO NOT provide benefits, and that is the breaks, I worked for a restaurant they did not pay anything! But I made tips so that was the offset. A daycare is a service of caring for your child, and in my opinion if you are not performing that service than why should you get paid for it?

I can understand the other way around if the parent takes the vacation they must pay. That I get, but if that's the case than why doesn't the parent pay for the daycare providers insurance too?? That's because as a SELF EMPLOYED person you are faced with that. For example you are self employed as a house cleaner, do the homeowners pay for your vacations when you won't be cleaning their home? My very good friend owned her own floral store and so that makes her a self employed individual, I never heard of people having to pay for her vacation?

I understand that the providers need breaks, we all need breaks, of course. But home daycare is a business they chose, concerns of benefits and paid vacations are reasons why self employed people decide to work for someone/company that can afford to provide employees with these benefits. Parents are usually struggling as it is to pay daycare so charging them when you are not performing a service I feel is not so fair. As I said, if we are to pay your vacations then why are we not paying your healthcare or other benefits?

That is why I work for a company that provides these benefits to me. But maybe I should go in to the daycare business.
I think you miss the point that, if a parent signs an agreement that includes paying for the provider's vacation, the parent has to abide by the agreement. I personally did not charge for any time I had off when I provided childcare in my home. That was MY choice in how I ran MY business and how I handled the fees I set. My contract spelled out that the parents did not pay when I had vacation. Other providers DO include payment for vacations in their contracts. That is their choice and obviously plenty of parents accept that since the majority of providers on this forum appear to charge that way. If you sign it, you need to follow it. Just like you abide by a landscaper's contract that spells out the fees they charge and what they will provide or a gyms membership contract.
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  #105  
Old 05-06-2014, 05:25 PM
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I think you miss the point that, if a parent signs an agreement that includes paying for the provider's vacation, the parent has to abide by the agreement. I personally did not charge for any time I had off when I provided childcare in my home. That was MY choice in how I ran MY business and how I handled the fees I set. My contract spelled out that the parents did not pay when I had vacation. Other providers DO include payment for vacations in their contracts. That is their choice and obviously plenty of parents accept that since the majority of providers on this forum appear to charge that way. If you sign it, you need to follow it. Just like you abide by a landscaper's contract that spells out the fees they charge and what they will provide or a gyms membership contract.


I don't charge for when I'm closed for any reason, but if that's something that really bothers a parent then there are other child care options. Find a different daycare with policies you agree with, hire a nanny, become a stay at home parent, etc.
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  #106  
Old 05-07-2014, 08:56 AM
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Uh, have to disagree there. A mortgage payment for a home that is yours and that will be there when you return is a tad different then paying someone that has not performed a service.

I completely understand that the providers need their time, but this is the line of work they chose, and getting "paid" vacations when you work for a company or state or any other line of work that pays their employees benefits is different from a daycare.

Daycare is expensive as it is, I wouldn't pay a landscape company when they take vacations and don't mow my lawn? I don't pay my paper boy vacations or pay for a newspaper that I wouldn't receive? Do you pay your mechanic if he doesn't fix your car? People work for many places that DO NOT provide benefits, and that is the breaks, I worked for a restaurant they did not pay anything! But I made tips so that was the offset. A daycare is a service of caring for your child, and in my opinion if you are not performing that service than why should you get paid for it?

I can understand the other way around if the parent takes the vacation they must pay. That I get, but if that's the case than why doesn't the parent pay for the daycare providers insurance too?? That's because as a SELF EMPLOYED person you are faced with that. For example you are self employed as a house cleaner, do the homeowners pay for your vacations when you won't be cleaning their home? My very good friend owned her own floral store and so that makes her a self employed individual, I never heard of people having to pay for her vacation?

I understand that the providers need breaks, we all need breaks, of course. But home daycare is a business they chose, concerns of benefits and paid vacations are reasons why self employed people decide to work for someone/company that can afford to provide employees with these benefits. Parents are usually struggling as it is to pay daycare so charging them when you are not performing a service I feel is not so fair. As I said, if we are to pay your vacations then why are we not paying your healthcare or other benefits?

That is why I work for a company that provides these benefits to me. But maybe I should go in to the daycare business.

I lease the spaces in my daycare to my clients for $xxxx per year. I give the option of paying as they wish (weekly, monthly, quarterly, yearly). Their lease on that space is not suspended on days off. Just like the lease on my storage garage is not suspended when the garage is empty. I don't consider myself to have "paid vacation", and I don't explain my time off as such. If you want the spot, you commit to paying for it whether you are using it or not. This is a choice that my client makes when they contract with me. I am not trying to pull one over on them. Yes, I CHOSE this profession. I CHOSE to be self-employed, and I CHOSE to run it the way I CHOSE to. My clients also CHOOSE to pay what I ask, and it is not unreasonable to ask them to do what they agreed to do. Just like a private school charging tuition yearly...do parents get a break on payments over Christmas vacation?
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  #107  
Old 05-07-2014, 09:16 AM
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Uh, have to disagree there. A mortgage payment for a home that is yours and that will be there when you return is a tad different then paying someone that has not performed a service.

I completely understand that the providers need their time, but this is the line of work they chose, and getting "paid" vacations when you work for a company or state or any other line of work that pays their employees benefits is different from a daycare.

Daycare is expensive as it is, I wouldn't pay a landscape company when they take vacations and don't mow my lawn? I don't pay my paper boy vacations or pay for a newspaper that I wouldn't receive? Do you pay your mechanic if he doesn't fix your car? People work for many places that DO NOT provide benefits, and that is the breaks, I worked for a restaurant they did not pay anything! But I made tips so that was the offset. A daycare is a service of caring for your child, and in my opinion if you are not performing that service than why should you get paid for it?

I can understand the other way around if the parent takes the vacation they must pay. That I get, but if that's the case than why doesn't the parent pay for the daycare providers insurance too?? That's because as a SELF EMPLOYED person you are faced with that. For example you are self employed as a house cleaner, do the homeowners pay for your vacations when you won't be cleaning their home? My very good friend owned her own floral store and so that makes her a self employed individual, I never heard of people having to pay for her vacation?

I understand that the providers need breaks, we all need breaks, of course. But home daycare is a business they chose, concerns of benefits and paid vacations are reasons why self employed people decide to work for someone/company that can afford to provide employees with these benefits. Parents are usually struggling as it is to pay daycare so charging them when you are not performing a service I feel is not so fair. As I said, if we are to pay your vacations then why are we not paying your healthcare or other benefits?

That is why I work for a company that provides these benefits to me. But maybe I should go in to the daycare business.
Technically clients are paying for my other benefits I choose to add into my fees/tuition. I know what it will take for me to make money in my business and be able to support/supplement income from my spouse. You are fighting a losing battle here! Whether providers choose to be paid or not for vacation is a choice providers get to make. Find a provider of your choosing/liking but do not hound providers that choose to charge differently than what you agree on.
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  #108  
Old 09-03-2014, 09:58 AM
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Default In search for answers, I got here.

Wow, what an interesting debate over the years.

I came here trying to find out if this is a general/accepted practice for daycare providers. My only experience was with a daycare center until we chose home daycare for our second child. After reading through some of the explanations (and some are a bit too much on either side) it makes sense. If there are paid vacation/holiday days in the contract, then that's what it is. I have the option to not sign. If I want my child to go to a specific provider, I will have to agree with their rules. It cannot possibly be illegal for any provider to have paid time off.

Hourly workers who do not have "benefits" or "paid time off" are paid wages accordingly. It is normal for hourly workers without benefits to be paid higher than full-time benefited employees.

I hope my child's daycare provider doesn't add medical benefit payments

Its all really simple. Those who put in their time and effort and provide great service for children in their daycare are always full and usually have no open spots with people on wait-list. They deserve to get paid higher. Those who don't really care, offer financially cheaper service but hardly ever get children to care for.

Also, its the same difference if you pay more per week or pay for paid time off.
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  #109  
Old 09-09-2014, 11:42 AM
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Wow, what an interesting debate over the years.

I came here trying to find out if this is a general/accepted practice for daycare providers. My only experience was with a daycare center until we chose home daycare for our second child. After reading through some of the explanations (and some are a bit too much on either side) it makes sense. If there are paid vacation/holiday days in the contract, then that's what it is. I have the option to not sign. If I want my child to go to a specific provider, I will have to agree with their rules. It cannot possibly be illegal for any provider to have paid time off.

Hourly workers who do not have "benefits" or "paid time off" are paid wages accordingly. It is normal for hourly workers without benefits to be paid higher than full-time benefited employees.

I hope my child's daycare provider doesn't add medical benefit payments

Its all really simple. Those who put in their time and effort and provide great service for children in their daycare are always full and usually have no open spots with people on wait-list. They deserve to get paid higher. Those who don't really care, offer financially cheaper service but hardly ever get children to care for.

Also, its the same difference if you pay more per week or pay for paid time off.
Well said, and welcome.
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  #110  
Old 04-30-2015, 05:50 AM
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Someone should sue daycare providers and force regulation by child care services. Parents having to PAY for the providers VACATION!!!???
If it were true as some providers here state that I am 'renting space', then when the daycare is on vacation, I should be able to take my child there to play with the toys.
And No, Unregistered simply means, I have a busy job and don't want to waste my time arguing.
In my state, there are specific regulations each Family Daycare is required to follow for licensing purposes. I would imagine this carries over to most states. During my initial licensing class, each of us was informed that we were to be closed a certain number of days per year (14 to be exact). We were also informed these days could NOT be listed as personal vacation days. We were encouraged in the next sentence to schedule at least 5 vacation days for ourselves throughout the year as well. We were told that charging our families for these days is purely voluntary. I charge each of my families a $10 vacation charge to "hold their spot" in the daycare, as I am only allowed to accept 6 children into my program. I receive phone calls on a daily basis from the local assistance office requesting service and I cannot accept. If I have a family who is unhappy with the arrangement when I explain the contract to them - I immediately suggest they contact someone else. I will not change a policy that has been in standing for the last 15 years because a parent is unhappy with the fact that their child cannot come to daycare during my vacation every year. The families I work with are aware of my vacation week a YEAR in advance and they are advised to plan accordingly. They are also pleased with the fact that I don't charge a full fee for that week. Bottom line - don't assume all daycares are the same and if you aren't happy with your current daycare, find someone else.
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  #111  
Old 04-30-2015, 09:04 AM
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Uh, have to disagree there. A mortgage payment for a home that is yours and that will be there when you return is a tad different then paying someone that has not performed a service.

I completely understand that the providers need their time, but this is the line of work they chose, and getting "paid" vacations when you work for a company or state or any other line of work that pays their employees benefits is different from a daycare.

Daycare is expensive as it is, I wouldn't pay a landscape company when they take vacations and don't mow my lawn? I don't pay my paper boy vacations or pay for a newspaper that I wouldn't receive? Do you pay your mechanic if he doesn't fix your car? People work for many places that DO NOT provide benefits, and that is the breaks, I worked for a restaurant they did not pay anything! But I made tips so that was the offset. A daycare is a service of caring for your child, and in my opinion if you are not performing that service than why should you get paid for it?

I can understand the other way around if the parent takes the vacation they must pay. That I get, but if that's the case than why doesn't the parent pay for the daycare providers insurance too?? That's because as a SELF EMPLOYED person you are faced with that. For example you are self employed as a house cleaner, do the homeowners pay for your vacations when you won't be cleaning their home? My very good friend owned her own floral store and so that makes her a self employed individual, I never heard of people having to pay for her vacation?

I understand that the providers need breaks, we all need breaks, of course. But home daycare is a business they chose, concerns of benefits and paid vacations are reasons why self employed people decide to work for someone/company that can afford to provide employees with these benefits. Parents are usually struggling as it is to pay daycare so charging them when you are not performing a service I feel is not so fair. As I said, if we are to pay your vacations then why are we not paying your healthcare or other benefits?

That is why I work for a company that provides these benefits to me. But maybe I should go in to the daycare business.
I COULD raise my rates to reflect my paid time off and then 'not charge' my clients for the days I take off. I just chose to be upfront and keep the rates lower and simplify things. Family child care is a very unique business situation in that we provide services on a daily basis. Most other industries will just raise rates of services to afford them the benefits of working for someone else.

Also, families DO pay for my health insurance. My husband and I are both self employed, and we charge rates high enough to cover operating expenses, insurance, employees, our crazy taxes and our private health insurance policy. All of that comes off the top before we can pay personal bills and expenses.
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  #112  
Old 04-30-2015, 09:43 AM
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I don't currently charge for my vacations. I am not saying I will never change that. I am also not saying I will never raise my rates to cover them. Bottom line is that my policies are my policies. Each parent gets a handbook and we go over it BEFORE a contract is signed. My contract says on it that by signing the parent agrees to the policies in my handbook. It is simple really, if you don't like ANY of my policies, don't sign my contract.
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  #113  
Old 07-30-2015, 01:58 PM
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It's totally legal and that provider should have spelled out everything in the contract. I had a provider friend that did that and none of her clients complained because they new it at sign ups.
Deb
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  #114  
Old 07-31-2015, 10:11 AM
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Default Love to hear providers thoughts........

Before I start another riot, I need to say this, I AM FINE PAYING VACATION TIME, AND HOLIDAYS. My wife and I get paid holidays off, so its not like I am "out money" plus it's free time with my kids which I love. However here are the things I have some frustrations with, and I am wondering if I am out of line being frustrated. I just don't know your business model, so maybe I am out of line with my frustrations:

1st- My provider takes 20 days paid off NOT INCLUDING HOLIDAYS, once again that doesn't frustrates me, what does is the fact they are so spread out. Will most providers take a week at a time? We unfortunately don't live near any family so it's really hard finding someone to watch them for a day or two at a time. If they took a week at a time it would justify driving my kids 6 hours to my parents and dropping them off for the week. So what happens is I use all my vacation and my wife's vacation to cover my providers days off, so when we want to take a vacation we have 2 choices, take it unpaid, or plan short vacations around our providers.

2nd- On top of the planned vacation on 4 separate occasions we got a text message the night before telling us they had an emergency and could not be open the next days, yet I still had to pay for that time even though they could not provide services. Considering she has 20 paid days off, shouldn't this come out of their days off? If you break the math down 20 days paid off would basically equal a month off a year, most people (including myself) will get 2 weeks (10 working days) and a week of sick (5 working days) off in a year. IF I have a sick child and my wife can't stay home with them, I have to use either a vacation day or sick day to cover me being home with my children. That is on me so if my provider is either sick or has to close for an emergency, shouldn't that have to come out of their paid time off in their contract?

3rd- (this one was what prompted my question here) Yesterday my provider told me at pick up she had a family issue next week, so I asked her if that would be in place of the 5 days she already has scheduled off for vacation in the month of August, she actually seemed insulted that I would ask her and told me no, YET I still have to pay for those extra 2 days.

4th- We pay a month in advance, so if we try and plan a day off and give my provider a month notice that we would be gone a day or two, we still have to pay or we lose our place in her daycare, so why is it ok that she can tell me a week or even day before she will be closed (outside of holidays and paid time off) and I have to pay, but if I give her plenty of lead time I can't pro-rate the month.

Finally- Since contracts are a hot topic here, in our contract it states that she will provide Breakfast, lunch, and 2 snacks during the day the child is there. Lately we have found out they are only getting one snack (no biggie), but since everyone is so contract sensitive and use that as an argument, then do I have a right to use that in return?

Look I know this sounds like I am bashing my provider, and I am not, she loves all the kids and treats them great, and I trust her and support her, but these things are hard to shake, so what do you think, and I being overly sensitive on this or do I have a reason to feel a little slighted?

Thanks so much!
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  #115  
Old 07-31-2015, 10:21 AM
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Before I start another riot, I need to say this, I AM FINE PAYING VACATION TIME, AND HOLIDAYS. My wife and I get paid holidays off, so its not like I am "out money" plus it's free time with my kids which I love. However here are the things I have some frustrations with, and I am wondering if I am out of line being frustrated. I just don't know your business model, so maybe I am out of line with my frustrations:

1st- My provider takes 20 days paid off NOT INCLUDING HOLIDAYS, once again that doesn't frustrates me, what does is the fact they are so spread out. Will most providers take a week at a time? We unfortunately don't live near any family so it's really hard finding someone to watch them for a day or two at a time. If they took a week at a time it would justify driving my kids 6 hours to my parents and dropping them off for the week. So what happens is I use all my vacation and my wife's vacation to cover my providers days off, so when we want to take a vacation we have 2 choices, take it unpaid, or plan short vacations around our providers.

2nd- On top of the planned vacation on 4 separate occasions we got a text message the night before telling us they had an emergency and could not be open the next days, yet I still had to pay for that time even though they could not provide services. Considering she has 20 paid days off, shouldn't this come out of their days off? If you break the math down 20 days paid off would basically equal a month off a year, most people (including myself) will get 2 weeks (10 working days) and a week of sick (5 working days) off in a year. IF I have a sick child and my wife can't stay home with them, I have to use either a vacation day or sick day to cover me being home with my children. That is on me so if my provider is either sick or has to close for an emergency, shouldn't that have to come out of their paid time off in their contract?

3rd- (this one was what prompted my question here) Yesterday my provider told me at pick up she had a family issue next week, so I asked her if that would be in place of the 5 days she already has scheduled off for vacation in the month of August, she actually seemed insulted that I would ask her and told me no, YET I still have to pay for those extra 2 days.

4th- We pay a month in advance, so if we try and plan a day off and give my provider a month notice that we would be gone a day or two, we still have to pay or we lose our place in her daycare, so why is it ok that she can tell me a week or even day before she will be closed (outside of holidays and paid time off) and I have to pay, but if I give her plenty of lead time I can't pro-rate the month.

Finally- Since contracts are a hot topic here, in our contract it states that she will provide Breakfast, lunch, and 2 snacks during the day the child is there. Lately we have found out they are only getting one snack (no biggie), but since everyone is so contract sensitive and use that as an argument, then do I have a right to use that in return?

Look I know this sounds like I am bashing my provider, and I am not, she loves all the kids and treats them great, and I trust her and support her, but these things are hard to shake, so what do you think, and I being overly sensitive on this or do I have a reason to feel a little slighted?

Thanks so much!
Personally, I have never taken time off without a HUGE period of notice. I've never had to close due to an emergency and if I did I would not charge my clients but that is me and how I run my business.

I DO think your provider should have something I her handbook/policies that talks about what they will or won't do in the case of emergency closures but if she doesn't you are certainly within your rights to ask for some sort of policy.

In the end it comes down to only a couple things....

working together with your provider so you are BOTH happy

and/or choosing another provider/program that meets your needs better.

Whether you have family or friends in the area has no bearing on the provider's policies as it really isn't her/his concern anymore than her personal life is your problem...kwim?

I am sorry her spaced out vacation days don't work for you personally but on the flip side, another parent probably complains about providers taking too many days off at one time being troublesome to them.

So again, the CURE/FIX is to work together so that the provider can maintain her sanity and income and the parents/clients maintain theirs as well.

What the details of that compromise is, is not a "one size fits all" answer...it's as unique and as individual as each program/provider/center is.
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  #116  
Old 07-31-2015, 10:23 AM
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Finally- Since contracts are a hot topic here, in our contract it states that she will provide Breakfast, lunch, and 2 snacks during the day the child is there. Lately we have found out they are only getting one snack (no biggie), but since everyone is so contract sensitive and use that as an argument, then do I have a right to use that in return?
If you DO have issue with that, then bring it to her attention.

One issue or contractual failure has nothing to do with another.

Just because the provider does not follow or abide by a policy it isn't automatic permission to use that in return.

That's akin to "she hit me so I can hit her back" type thinking.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Also a lot of providers have clauses in their contracts that state that amending or waiving a policy can be done at THEIR discretion without voiding the entire contract. No idea if this is the case in your situation but it's something that is important enough to mention.
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Old 07-31-2015, 11:21 AM
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If you DO have issue with that, then bring it to her attention.

One issue or contractual failure has nothing to do with another.

Just because the provider does not follow or abide by a policy it isn't automatic permission to use that in return.

That's akin to "she hit me so I can hit her back" type thinking.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Also a lot of providers have clauses in their contracts that state that amending or waiving a policy can be done at THEIR discretion without voiding the entire contract. No idea if this is the case in your situation but it's something that is important enough to mention.

First off, thanks for the response back and doing it in a professional, sincere way. I certainly agree with what you had to say about it must be beneficial for both parties. SO at the risk of sounding like I am arguing (which I promise I am not) I don't totally agree with the above statement. While you are absolutely 100% correct, 2 wrongs don't make a right, if I enter into a contract on good faith with anyone, that contact should be honored till its term. Now are there certain exceptions? Of course, if I am constantly late or missing payments then the provider absolutely has the right to not only terminate that contract early, but send me to collections for missed payments. What I don't like is the thought that a provider (whether it be childcare, cell phone, directv, ect) say "hey this is our contract we both signed, but by the way if I tweak it during its term, that doesn't mean it is a violation of my promise to you, my customer. That would be like if I had my salary cut at work and didn't make as much and came back to my provider and said "hey I can't give you the said payment per month because my income has been cut by 20%, so I am going to cut your pay by 5% to even out the lost monies" I write contracts everyday at work and I know if I put that in any contracts to my customers they would tell me to pound sand

Like I said, I really appreciate your advice and I think you have stated your point well, so don't think I am trying to pick a fight. I just know when I have brought a few things up to my provider, she goes right to the contract, which while can be frustrating, is fair, I signed it and agreed to those terms, I just feel like she should honor those same terms.

Thanks again, and have a great weekend!
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Old 07-31-2015, 11:46 AM
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First off, thanks for the response back and doing it in a professional, sincere way. I certainly agree with what you had to say about it must be beneficial for both parties. SO at the risk of sounding like I am arguing (which I promise I am not) I don't totally agree with the above statement. While you are absolutely 100% correct, 2 wrongs don't make a right, if I enter into a contract on good faith with anyone, that contact should be honored till its term. Now are there certain exceptions? Of course, if I am constantly late or missing payments then the provider absolutely has the right to not only terminate that contract early, but send me to collections for missed payments. What I don't like is the thought that a provider (whether it be childcare, cell phone, directv, ect) say "hey this is our contract we both signed, but by the way if I tweak it during its term, that doesn't mean it is a violation of my promise to you, my customer. That would be like if I had my salary cut at work and didn't make as much and came back to my provider and said "hey I can't give you the said payment per month because my income has been cut by 20%, so I am going to cut your pay by 5% to even out the lost monies" I write contracts everyday at work and I know if I put that in any contracts to my customers they would tell me to pound sand

Like I said, I really appreciate your advice and I think you have stated your point well, so don't think I am trying to pick a fight. I just know when I have brought a few things up to my provider, she goes right to the contract, which while can be frustrating, is fair, I signed it and agreed to those terms, I just feel like she should honor those same terms.

Thanks again, and have a great weekend!
I kind of disagree with you here. Many service providers DO change their contracts with little or no notice. Just the other day when I paid my hubby's XM radio for his semi, I got online to find out they no longer had his plan and the "new" one I can get costs more. I have two choices, either pay the rate increase with the channel changes or shut off his radio service. I am eating the few bucks, because well my life is just easier keeping the hubby happy in the semi.

You can however discuss this change with her, ask her why or whatever she can at least discuss it with you. Perhaps her food program changed, or the food program or the state told her that her meals and snacks were no properly spaced, or perhaps the kids were not eating the food so she was just throwing it away. The point is, she may have a good reason for it. Then again she may not but you don't know unless you speak with her about it.
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Old 07-31-2015, 12:07 PM
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First off, thanks for the response back and doing it in a professional, sincere way. I certainly agree with what you had to say about it must be beneficial for both parties. SO at the risk of sounding like I am arguing (which I promise I am not) I don't totally agree with the above statement. While you are absolutely 100% correct, 2 wrongs don't make a right, if I enter into a contract on good faith with anyone, that contact should be honored till its term. Now are there certain exceptions? Of course, if I am constantly late or missing payments then the provider absolutely has the right to not only terminate that contract early, but send me to collections for missed payments. What I don't like is the thought that a provider (whether it be childcare, cell phone, directv, ect) say "hey this is our contract we both signed, but by the way if I tweak it during its term, that doesn't mean it is a violation of my promise to you, my customer. That would be like if I had my salary cut at work and didn't make as much and came back to my provider and said "hey I can't give you the said payment per month because my income has been cut by 20%, so I am going to cut your pay by 5% to even out the lost monies" I write contracts everyday at work and I know if I put that in any contracts to my customers they would tell me to pound sand

Like I said, I really appreciate your advice and I think you have stated your point well, so don't think I am trying to pick a fight. I just know when I have brought a few things up to my provider, she goes right to the contract, which while can be frustrating, is fair, I signed it and agreed to those terms, I just feel like she should honor those same terms.

Thanks again, and have a great weekend!
Actually I agree with you. Personally, I don't have a clause in my contract that I can alter it without negating the whole thing. I just know some providers do and I think they do it to cover their butts in cases just like yours....

The provider reverts back to the contract as her way of supporting HER rights but doesn't give the contract that much weight when it suits her... I think that is bad or not really good business practice and like I said, not something I would do. I get grief a lot because I am one of those providers that thinks I should have to follow my contract just as closely as I expect families to.

The trouble with that though is most (not all) in home family providers are in this business to meet THEIR family's needs and don't plan on staying in this field as a career choice, just more of a "what works for me now" phase while their own little ones are small. Its very common and although there is nothing wrong with that, it creates a whole set of issues that are very unique to what I consider a business.

I don't know...it's really hard when your business is considered a "gray" area since it IS a business but its also run within the context of your family/family life so it's hard in my opinion for some providers to separate that aspect of this job.

It's easier for me because I am an accidental child care provider as I didn't mean to get into this business (that's a whole nother story..my first love was contract law ) but found I do like this field and have chosen to stay but as other forum members can validate for me, I am much more business like than most. I see things very black and white and feel that communication IS the key to every.single issue that arises in this profession. I think 99.9% of issues should be dealt from a logical and factual angle BEFORE allowing the emotional aspects to weigh in. What "fits" one situation isn't always the answer to another.

I think your best bet is to schedule a sit down discussion with your provider and see if you guys can communicate with each other well enough to find a good compromise so that both of you remain happy giving and receiving services.

Last edited by Blackcat31; 08-01-2015 at 04:38 PM.
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Old 07-31-2015, 12:21 PM
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Actually I agree with you. Personally, I don't have a clause in my contract that I can alter it without negating the whole thing. I just know some providers do and I thing they do it to cover their butts in cases just like yours....

The provider reverts back to the contract as her way of supporting HER rights but doesn't give the contract that much weight when it suits her... I think that is bad or not really good business practice and like I said, not something I would do. I get grief a lot because I am one of those providers that thinks I should have to follow my contract just as closely as I expect families to.

The trouble with that though is most (not all) in home family providers are in this business to meet THEIR family's needs and don't plan on staying in this field as a career choice, just more of a "what works for me now" phase while their own little ones are small. Its very common and although there is nothing wrong with that, it creates a whole set of issues that are very unique to what I consider a business.

I don't know...it's really hard when your business is considered a "gray" area since it IS a business but its also run within the context of your family/family life so it's hard in my opinion for some providers to separate that aspect of this job.

It's easier for me because I am an accidental child care provider as I didn't mean to get into this business (that's a whole nother story..my first love was contract law ) but found I do like this field and have chosen to stay but as other forum members can validate for me, I am much more business like than most. I see things very black and white and feel that communication IS the key to every.single issue that arises in this profession. I think 99.9% of issues should be dealt from a logical and factual angle BEFORE allowing the emotional aspects to weigh in. What "fits" one situation isn't always the answer to another.

I think your best bet is to schedule a sit down discussion with your provider and see if you guys can communicate with each other well enough to find a good compromise so that both of you remain happy giving and receiving services.

Very well said! You are right, we need a sit down to work it out. I wanted to make sure that before I do that, I have a leg to stand on and not just complaining about things that are very common in childcare...Thanks for the help!!!!!
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Old 07-31-2015, 12:26 PM
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Very well said! You are right, we need a sit down to work it out. I wanted to make sure that before I do that, I have a leg to stand on and not just complaining about things that are very common in childcare...Thanks for the help!!!!!
You are welcome and I sincerely hope you are able to find a good compromise.

Please update if you get the chance.

I'd be interested in hearing how it went.

I love when parents and providers can find that happy medium.

After all, it IS in the best interest of the child and at the end of the day, that should really be what's important.
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Old 07-31-2015, 12:31 PM
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I kind of disagree with you here. Many service providers DO change their contracts with little or no notice. Just the other day when I paid my hubby's XM radio for his semi, I got online to find out they no longer had his plan and the "new" one I can get costs more. I have two choices, either pay the rate increase with the channel changes or shut off his radio service. I am eating the few bucks, because well my life is just easier keeping the hubby happy in the semi.
I would not be okay with that.

My DH and I have been XM subscribers with multiple devices since 2007 and I am still paying the same price and have the same plan as I did when I signed up with them.

The plan and the rate are no longer options as you said but we were told we were "grandfathered" in when they made the move to combine with Sirius and they have honored that. They did say though that if my services were ever turned off for non-payment then I lose that option, otherwise though we still get what was promised to us when we first signed on.
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Old 07-31-2015, 12:37 PM
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I would not be okay with that.

My DH and I have been XM subscribers with multiple devices since 2007 and I am still paying the same price and have the same plan as I did when I signed up with them.

The plan and the rate are no longer options as you said but we were told we were "grandfathered" in when they made the move to combine with Sirius and they have honored that. They did say though that if my services were ever turned off for non-payment then I lose that option, otherwise though we still get what was promised to us when we first signed on.
Maybe I should call them then. We have two devices one for home and one in the truck. Our service was not turned off, but they did give me an auto call when the card didn't work (the bank replaced hubbys card), so I got online and fixed it. Hubby would come unglued if I let it get shut off lol.
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Old 08-01-2015, 03:39 PM
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Before I start another riot, I need to say this, I AM FINE PAYING VACATION TIME, AND HOLIDAYS. My wife and I get paid holidays off, so its not like I am "out money" plus it's free time with my kids which I love. However here are the things I have some frustrations with, and I am wondering if I am out of line being frustrated. I just don't know your business model, so maybe I am out of line with my frustrations:

1st- My provider takes 20 days paid off NOT INCLUDING HOLIDAYS, once again that doesn't frustrates me, what does is the fact they are so spread out. Will most providers take a week at a time? We unfortunately don't live near any family so it's really hard finding someone to watch them for a day or two at a time. If they took a week at a time it would justify driving my kids 6 hours to my parents and dropping them off for the week. So what happens is I use all my vacation and my wife's vacation to cover my providers days off, so when we want to take a vacation we have 2 choices, take it unpaid, or plan short vacations around our providers.

2nd- On top of the planned vacation on 4 separate occasions we got a text message the night before telling us they had an emergency and could not be open the next days, yet I still had to pay for that time even though they could not provide services. Considering she has 20 paid days off, shouldn't this come out of their days off? If you break the math down 20 days paid off would basically equal a month off a year, most people (including myself) will get 2 weeks (10 working days) and a week of sick (5 working days) off in a year. IF I have a sick child and my wife can't stay home with them, I have to use either a vacation day or sick day to cover me being home with my children. That is on me so if my provider is either sick or has to close for an emergency, shouldn't that have to come out of their paid time off in their contract?

3rd- (this one was what prompted my question here) Yesterday my provider told me at pick up she had a family issue next week, so I asked her if that would be in place of the 5 days she already has scheduled off for vacation in the month of August, she actually seemed insulted that I would ask her and told me no, YET I still have to pay for those extra 2 days.

4th- We pay a month in advance, so if we try and plan a day off and give my provider a month notice that we would be gone a day or two, we still have to pay or we lose our place in her daycare, so why is it ok that she can tell me a week or even day before she will be closed (outside of holidays and paid time off) and I have to pay, but if I give her plenty of lead time I can't pro-rate the month.

Finally- Since contracts are a hot topic here, in our contract it states that she will provide Breakfast, lunch, and 2 snacks during the day the child is there. Lately we have found out they are only getting one snack (no biggie), but since everyone is so contract sensitive and use that as an argument, then do I have a right to use that in return?

Look I know this sounds like I am bashing my provider, and I am not, she loves all the kids and treats them great, and I trust her and support her, but these things are hard to shake, so what do you think, and I being overly sensitive on this or do I have a reason to feel a little slighted?

Thanks so much!
I've started to respond to this post several times and each time, I've decided to delete my reply and walk away from it. It's really been bothering me for some reason, though, so here goes:

It may seem like a double standard for me to say this but rather than giving you leverage, bringing up the missing snack time just comes across as petty to me. I get the point you're trying to make and I agree the contract should be followed by both parties but...you said yourself that it's "no biggie" so why bring it up? She may start serving the second snack to appease you and to keep you from accusing her of not following her own contract but it won't resolve the real issue: the excessive amount of time she's taking off at your expense.

For the record, I would be extremely frustrated if I were in your shoes - although I would never have signed on with her in the first place. Those 20 paid days off in addition to holidays would have been a deal breaker for me.
What amounts to unlimited time off with pay would definitely not have worked for me when I had my child in day care. I didn't have friends or family who could watch my child at a moments notice (they all had jobs and kids, too!) so I would have lost my job trying to cover her time off.

I agree with the suggestion to discuss the issue with her to see if a compromise can be reached. (She's got a good thing going, though, so I wouldn't hold out too much hope that anything will change!) If a compromise isn't possible, I would start looking for another provider with policies more in sync with what works best for you.
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Old 08-01-2015, 03:50 PM
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I've started to respond to this post several times and each time, I've decided to delete my reply and walk away from it. It's really been bothering me for some reason, though, so here goes:

It may seem like a double standard for me to say this but rather than giving you leverage, bringing up the missing snack time just comes across as petty to me. I get the point you're trying to make and I agree the contract should be followed by both parties but...you said yourself that it's "no biggie" so why bring it up? She may start serving the second snack to appease you and to keep you from accusing her of not following her own contract but it won't resolve the real issue: the excessive amount of time she's taking off at your expense.

For the record, I would be extremely frustrated if I were in your shoes - although I would never have signed on with her in the first place. Those 20 paid days off in addition to holidays would have been a deal breaker for me.
What amounts to unlimited time off with pay would definitely not have worked for me when I had my child in day care. I didn't have friends or family who could watch my child at a moments notice (they all had jobs and kids, too!) so I would have lost my job trying to cover her time off.

I agree with the suggestion to discuss the issue with her to see if a compromise can be reached. (She's got a good thing going, though, so I wouldn't hold out too much hope that anything will change!) If a compromise isn't possible, I would start looking for another provider with policies more in sync with what works best for you.
I agree with this. I personally would never sign a contract with a provider who took that many days off either. I have never had a job that would allow that much time off or people that could help me fill in. I don't take near that amount of time off. BUT once you sign the contract, you are stuck. Your only option is to find a new provider and end your contract.
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Old 08-06-2015, 05:09 PM
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I agree with this. I personally would never sign a contract with a provider who took that many days off either. I have never had a job that would allow that much time off or people that could help me fill in. I don't take near that amount of time off. BUT once you sign the contract, you are stuck. Your only option is to find a new provider and end your contract.
Thanks for the responses. I should have been more specific on why we chose our current provider. We had our children in a early child development center (basically a school setting that went from infant through preschool) and this center basically followed the public school's schedule. So all major holidays, plus spring and winter breaks, and teacher institution days. The catch was when there was a snow/cold weather day and the public school closed, so did our provider. Now where we live we get A LOT of those during the winter months. So when we averaged out the time my current provide has off in her contract compared to the time off my previous provider had off, and figured in bad weather days off it was basically a push.

So maybe I had gotten off topic in my original post, because it seems that everyone is going back to my contract and the days off. As I stated, I knew the days off before I signed the contract, what my questions really is, should I be responsible paying for last minute days off that are not in my providers schedule? Now let me clarify that, I get things come up, however if you need a day off due to sickness, emergency, ect. Shouldn't that come out of their days off they had planned? If I have a week vacation planned and I have a kid that comes down with the flu and I have to take a few days off, then that comes out of my vacation and or sick day. I don't get to add on extra days. Anyways I do have a meeting with her coming up next week to discuss this. The reason I am coming here was simple to see if this was common practice.

Thanks again
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Old 08-07-2015, 08:12 AM
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what my questions really is, should I be responsible paying for last minute days off that are not in my providers schedule? Now let me clarify that, I get things come up, however if you need a day off due to sickness, emergency, ect. Shouldn't that come out of their days off they had planned?
You sound like a very understanding person when it comes to days off. Personally, I agree that those unexpected days off really should come out of the 20 paid leave days/holidays and that any additional days off should be unpaid. In my contract, I state that I take holidays paid. All other days including sick time, emergency days off and vacation weeks are unpaid. I set this policy when I first opened my day care because it was the norm for this area at the time and because as a former dc parent, I wanted to treat my dc parents in the same way I would have wanted to be treated. I think my policy is fair so I've continued with it regardless of what may be the norm in my area now, almost 19 years later.

What you or I or anyone else believes, though, is immaterial. It all really does boil down to "What is in her contract?" You can argue that something isn't fair but if you agreed to it, you need to follow it.

Whether a policy is common practice or not probably depends a lot on the area in which you live. Do you have co-workers who have their children in day cares who could tell you what their experience has been? They might be able to give you a better idea as to what the norm is in your area. You can bring it up to your provider and say, "Hey, I've spoken with 20 co-worker and they all said their providers do......." She may change her policy or develop one that goes along with what everyone else is doing. Or....she may decide she likes her current policy the way it is. If no one else is complaining and she isn't losing a lot of business because of it she isn't likely to change anything. It doesn't hurt to discuss the issue with her, though.

Either way, the bottom line, again, is, "What does her signed contract state?" If her contract states that any additional sick days taken outside the 20 paid days will be unpaid, then she should not be charging you. If there is no policy on those additional days, you may have an argument and she may just hear you out. If I were you, though, I'd be prepared for the possibility that she will just revise her contract to read that all days closed are paid days. Like I said before, she's got a good thing going. She isn't likely to want to change that.
Good luck. I'd love to hear what happens.
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Old 08-07-2015, 08:30 AM
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What you or I or anyone else believes, though, is immaterial. It all really does boil down to "What is in her contract?" You can argue that something isn't fair but if you agreed to it, you need to follow it.
I think that might be part of the issue though....

The family did agree to the paid days off etc but there was nothing addressed regarding other days off. Unplanned days that are not mentioned in the contract.

Honestly, I agree with the parent here and if the provider doesn't list specific days and/or a number of specific days that parents will be required to pay for even though services aren't available the provider should take the loss.

I list x amount of days I will be closed AD still charging families. ANY days I take off that aren't listed or go above my allotted number of days off, I take the loss. I don't charge the parents for those days.

I think that is what this parent is trying to figure out.
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Old 08-07-2015, 09:08 AM
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I think that might be part of the issue though....

The family did agree to the paid days off etc but there was nothing addressed regarding other days off. Unplanned days that are not mentioned in the contract.

Honestly, I agree with the parent here and if the provider doesn't list specific days and/or a number of specific days that parents will be required to pay for even though services aren't available the provider should take the loss.

I list x amount of days I will be closed AD still charging families. ANY days I take off that aren't listed or go above my allotted number of days off, I take the loss. I don't charge the parents for those days.

I think that is what this parent is trying to figure out.


Thanks all! Yep you are right, there is nothing in the contract about emergency days off being paid for by the parent. Like I said, I have a ton of respect for DCP and unlike a lot of people I see post on here, I do think that you all deserve time off paid. Would I like the time off be more organized (like a week at a time), of course but we certainly know we don't get everything we want. I just like to have all my ducks in a row before I go have a meeting with my provider, because one thing I don't like is being lied to, or talking around the issue at hand. So I was curious what other professionals in the field have to say about the topic before I accidentally burn a bridge over something that is common place.

Thanks again
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Old 08-07-2015, 09:34 AM
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"If no one else is complaining and she isn't losing a lot of business because of it she isn't likely to change anything. It doesn't hurt to discuss the issue with her, though."


Hey EJ, just to follow up, I don't know all the parents using our provider, however we do have a good relationship with a couple families using our provider, and the frustration is starting to show. I just happen to be the only one that is brash (however respectful) enough to speak with the provider about it.

I have another one for you if you (or anyone that doesn't mind answering) I was just speaking with one of the parents we are friends with last night. Our providers is closed today and Monday for vacation. Now you have the option to pay either a week at a time or month, as long as it is before service is provided. Well the family informed me last night that since they pay by week their normal pay day is Monday morning, well since our provider is gone on vacation, they actually showed up to their work last night and asked for their next week payment before they left on vacation. Now how does that work, if you are on a vacation and your pay period falls on a day you have off, do you have to pay before hand? ( keep in mind there in nothing in the contract that is stating this policy, just that payment is due before service is rendered) I guess maybe I am just nitpicking, but I would have been pretty upset if I was at work and my provider showed up to collect like some back alley bookie lol. The kicker was this couple paid through Monday of next week on their last payment day knowing the provider was closed this Monday and then on Tuesday morning they were going to pay for the rest of the week as normal.

Just picking your brains, thanks again!
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Old 08-07-2015, 09:43 AM
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I have another one for you if you (or anyone that doesn't mind answering) I was just speaking with one of the parents we are friends with last night. Our providers is closed today and Monday for vacation. Now you have the option to pay either a week at a time or month, as long as it is before service is provided. Well the family informed me last night that since they pay by week their normal pay day is Monday morning, well since our provider is gone on vacation, they actually showed up to their work last night and asked for their next week payment before they left on vacation. Now how does that work, if you are on a vacation and your pay period falls on a day you have off, do you have to pay before hand? ( keep in mind there in nothing in the contract that is stating this policy, just that payment is due before service is rendered) I guess maybe I am just nitpicking, but I would have been pretty upset if I was at work and my provider showed up to collect like some back alley bookie lol. The kicker was this couple paid through Monday of next week on their last payment day knowing the provider was closed this Monday and then on Tuesday morning they were going to pay for the rest of the week as normal.

Just picking your brains, thanks again!
Wow, showing up at the parent's place of employment?? That is HIGHLY unprofessional in my opinion and NOT something I would ever do!!

When I am closed for vacation (let's use the time frame you used above...closed on Friday AND Monday) I require payments (normally due on Fridays) to be paid on Thursdays buuuuuut I do not cash checks or deposit them until Saturday mornings. Which is written in my handbook.

Parents that pay me via bank transfers can still pay as planned whether I am open or not unless the bank is closed and then they pay the first business day after the bank closure.

If a parent pays cash and can't come up with the cash the day(s) before it's normally due, it is payable the following day I am open (with no late fee penalty)

I simply do not believe it's proper/right or good business practices to expect someone to have money to pay me BEFORE it's technically due when it's MY situation (vacation days) that caused the situation.


Wow, I am kind of shocked at the providers behavior...
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  #132  
Old 08-07-2015, 10:12 AM
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I think that might be part of the issue though....

The family did agree to the paid days off etc but there was nothing addressed regarding other days off. Unplanned days that are not mentioned in the contract.

Honestly, I agree with the parent here and if the provider doesn't list specific days and/or a number of specific days that parents will be required to pay for even though services aren't available the provider should take the loss.

I list x amount of days I will be closed AD still charging families. ANY days I take off that aren't listed or go above my allotted number of days off, I take the loss. I don't charge the parents for those days.

I think that is what this parent is trying to figure out.
I totally agree with you and the parent. I think we're saying the same thing. You are maybe just saying it better. See below.

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Either way, the bottom line, again, is, "What does her signed contract state?" If her contract states that any additional sick days taken outside the 20 paid days will be unpaid, then she should not be charging you. If there is no policy on those additional days, you may have an argument and she may just hear you out. If I were you, though, I'd be prepared for the possibility that she will just revise her contract to read that all days closed are paid days. Like I said before, she's got a good thing going. She isn't likely to want to change that.
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  #133  
Old 08-07-2015, 10:20 AM
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"If no one else is complaining and she isn't losing a lot of business because of it she isn't likely to change anything. It doesn't hurt to discuss the issue with her, though."


Hey EJ, just to follow up, I don't know all the parents using our provider, however we do have a good relationship with a couple families using our provider, and the frustration is starting to show. I just happen to be the only one that is brash (however respectful) enough to speak with the provider about it.

I have another one for you if you (or anyone that doesn't mind answering) I was just speaking with one of the parents we are friends with last night. Our providers is closed today and Monday for vacation. Now you have the option to pay either a week at a time or month, as long as it is before service is provided. Well the family informed me last night that since they pay by week their normal pay day is Monday morning, well since our provider is gone on vacation, they actually showed up to their work last night and asked for their next week payment before they left on vacation. Now how does that work, if you are on a vacation and your pay period falls on a day you have off, do you have to pay before hand? ( keep in mind there in nothing in the contract that is stating this policy, just that payment is due before service is rendered) I guess maybe I am just nitpicking, but I would have been pretty upset if I was at work and my provider showed up to collect like some back alley bookie lol. The kicker was this couple paid through Monday of next week on their last payment day knowing the provider was closed this Monday and then on Tuesday morning they were going to pay for the rest of the week as normal.

Just picking your brains, thanks again!
I can't believe that happened!

My policy is that payment is due on Fridays, regardless of illness, vacation or closure. Late fees will apply if not received on the Friday by 9 am. All of my families currently use emt and send it on Wed or Thurs. I accept the transfer on Friday morning prior to arrivals.

I just find that keeping the day the same regardless of anything else going on, keeps it clear. That is my policy, though, and is clearly stated in my handbook.

I would never show up at a parent's work, though. That is strange and very unprofessional, imho.
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  #134  
Old 08-07-2015, 10:42 AM
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I can't believe that happened!

My policy is that payment is due on Fridays, regardless of illness, vacation or closure. Late fees will apply if not received on the Friday by 9 am. All of my families currently use emt and send it on Wed or Thurs. I accept the transfer on Friday morning prior to arrivals.

I just find that keeping the day the same regardless of anything else going on, keeps it clear. That is my policy, though, and is clearly stated in my handbook.

I would never show up at a parent's work, though. That is strange and very unprofessional, imho.

Thanks for replies!!!! I like how you all run your payment plans. One if the issues I know some of the other parents run into is payment method. Our provider ONLY accepts cash, no check, transfer, or even one of those little card readers for smart phones. Hence while I pay a month in advance, because like the family I stated above, they have to remember to stop at the bank either on Friday night or Saturday so they have the cash for the provider on Monday. I can understand the provider maybe not taking a check if they have gotten burned in the past, but it sure doesn't make it easier.

BTW I am really not trying to bash my provider, and I know this sounds like I am whining, I promise I am not, because we do like do like her with our children.
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  #135  
Old 08-07-2015, 03:28 PM
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"If no one else is complaining and she isn't losing a lot of business because of it she isn't likely to change anything. It doesn't hurt to discuss the issue with her, though."


Hey EJ, just to follow up, I don't know all the parents using our provider, however we do have a good relationship with a couple families using our provider, and the frustration is starting to show. I just happen to be the only one that is brash (however respectful) enough to speak with the provider about it.
I'm not surprised to hear that others are feeling frustrated, too. Unfortunately, if they aren't willing to back you up, she still has little incentive to change the way she does things. Like I said before, she's got a good thing going. She'd be crazy to give it up if she doesn't have to. No matter how much time she takes off, she gets paid for it. If she has enough parents willing to pay for days beyond the 20 they originally agreed to, why would she change for one parent who is brash enough to complain.

You know her; I don't. What do you think will happen once you raise this issue with her? I'm thinking she could either see the error of her ways, apologize and agree to stop charging you for days off beyond the agreed upon 20 or she could thank you for your input, update her contract to include wording that will allow her unlimited paid time off and then offer you the choice of signing the updated contract or finding another provider. If I were in your situation, I'd speak up but I'd also be looking around to see what else is out there in case you find yourself having to make that choice.

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...since our provider is gone on vacation, they actually showed up to their work last night and asked for their next week payment before they left on vacation. Now how does that work, if you are on a vacation and your pay period falls on a day you have off, do you have to pay before hand? ( keep in mind there in nothing in the contract that is stating this policy, just that payment is due before service is rendered) I guess maybe I am just nitpicking, but I would have been pretty upset if I was at work and my provider showed up to collect like some back alley bookie lol. The kicker was this couple paid through Monday of next week on their last payment day knowing the provider was closed this Monday and then on Tuesday morning they were going to pay for the rest of the week as normal.

Just picking your brains, thanks again!
! I would never feel comfortable just showing up at a client's workplace to ask for a check. I'm kind of speechless to think someone would!

I'm paid Mondays (or on the first day of the week a child is scheduled for care) for the week. So if, for example, I had planned to be closed for vacation today and this coming Monday, the payment for today would have been included in this past Monday's check. This coming Monday's payment would be included in next week's check and I would just wait until Tuesday to collect it since Tuesday would be the first day I was open for the week. Basically, I would have expected to be paid in the exact way your friend planned to pay this provider. Even if a parent failed to pay on time, I would attach late payment fees before I'd head over to his place of employment to collect payment.

Btw, you have come across to me as reasonable, understanding and more than patient - not whining or bashing. I think you have a legitimate concern. Since you seem happy with the care she provides overall, I hope you can find a way to work through this with her. Good luck.
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  #136  
Old 08-07-2015, 05:20 PM
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To answer your first question, I have 10 paid days a year and paid holidays which are all listed in the contract. If I need a second week of vacation or more 'sick' days etc, then I don't make parents pay for them. I've never gone over 1 week paid vaca and 5 sick days, but if I did, that would not be right for me to charge them.

Second, I can't believe she went to the work of the client. No way. Very unprofessional (and looks desperate). Payday for my clients is on Fridays by 5:30pm. If I am closed for vaca, sick whatever, then I have a locked drop box outside they can drop off in. If I will be closed friday and know ahead of time, I ask parents to bring check on Thursdays. I still don't put them in the bank til at least Saturday, and if they forget until Friday I won't charge late fees. Only after Friday. Having the locked drop box and cameras outside makes it easier for them and me.

The cash thing seems a little off to me too. I personally like checks, it makes recordkeeping easier, but I could kind of see taking cash only if burned before. I have been, but I don't make everyone suffer because of that. Does she at least give you signed receipts so you can have your proof you paid??

If someone burns me with a check, then I have in my policies that I have the right to make them pay in cash from that point forward, but just that family, not everyone. Has she ever given you a reason or have you asked her? I hope you are at least getting receipts. As far as credit cards, it's normal for most family providers not to accept them. Some do, more don't. Some take electronic payments other ways too.

You don't sound whiny and if you aren't the only one unhappy, perhaps all you parents should approach her and see if something changes. Of course, don't make it feel like you're ganging up on her, but she needs to somehow know that you aren't the only one unhappy with these issues. Good luck.
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  #137  
Old 08-07-2015, 10:55 PM
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I can't imagine going to the workplace or even the home of a client looking for payment. I pretty much am on a cash system, because it costs so darn much for me if a check bounces. My bank (like most others) takes the money back out of my account and charges me a hefty fee and if that makes my account overdrafted and other things bounce, I have to pay fees on each of those also. So I could have several late fees in a day due to it. I do accept checks from one parent right now (well grandparent really), because she has proven herself reliable to me and I trust her.
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  #138  
Old 08-08-2015, 02:53 AM
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Thanks for replies!!!! I like how you all run your payment plans. One if the issues I know some of the other parents run into is payment method. Our provider ONLY accepts cash, no check, transfer, or even one of those little card readers for smart phones. Hence while I pay a month in advance, because like the family I stated above, they have to remember to stop at the bank either on Friday night or Saturday so they have the cash for the provider on Monday. I can understand the provider maybe not taking a check if they have gotten burned in the past, but it sure doesn't make it easier.

BTW I am really not trying to bash my provider, and I know this sounds like I am whining, I promise I am not, because we do like do like her with our children.
If you are happy with everything else, I would ask her to have a sit down with you to clarify the issues you have concerns with. Good luck!
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  #139  
Old 12-14-2016, 10:04 AM
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Angry Paying for Daycare when your provider is on vaca

To All Day Care Providers. This is why it is ridiculous to charge for your vacation days. You are not an employee. You are self-employed. And in return for all of the decisions you get to make as a self-employed person, you give up certain advantages of being an employee. I do not pay my various contractors (through my work) for work not performed. I am fine paying for days when my kids are sick, as they are taking up spots in daycare. I do not feel it is right to ask for your customers to pay for your time off, as well as, either take their time off around your schedule or pay a second source to do the job you otherwise would have. When I use my PTO at work, my employer does not have to pay a second person to do the work when I am off.
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  #140  
Old 12-14-2016, 10:13 AM
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To All Day Care Providers. This is why it is ridiculous to charge for your vacation days. You are not an employee. You are self-employed. And in return for all of the decisions you get to make as a self-employed person, you give up certain advantages of being an employee. I do not pay my various contractors (through my work) for work not performed. I am fine paying for days when my kids are sick, as they are taking up spots in daycare. I do not feel it is right to ask for your customers to pay for your time off, as well as, either take their time off around your schedule or pay a second source to do the job you otherwise would have. When I use my PTO at work, my employer does not have to pay a second person to do the work when I am off.
Bummer.... sounds like you should consider becoming a child care provider so you can get paid for your days off.
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  #141  
Old 12-14-2016, 11:11 AM
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To All Day Care Providers. This is why it is ridiculous to charge for your vacation days. You are not an employee. You are self-employed. And in return for all of the decisions you get to make as a self-employed person, you give up certain advantages of being an employee. I do not pay my various contractors (through my work) for work not performed. I am fine paying for days when my kids are sick, as they are taking up spots in daycare. I do not feel it is right to ask for your customers to pay for your time off, as well as, either take their time off around your schedule or pay a second source to do the job you otherwise would have. When I use my PTO at work, my employer does not have to pay a second person to do the work when I am off.
Well then how about you chose a provider who does not take paid days off?If I didn't take PTO, I would raise my rates significantly to offset it, so either way, you're paying additional. Contractors tack on extra to accommodate paid days off for themselves and their employees as well. (Husband owns a contracting business).

No, we aren't your employee but you contract for a service. If you don't like the contract, don't sign it and look elsewhere. It goes back to not signing a contract that you don't agree with. They are out there.

Depends on the job if they have to pay to replace you. Teachers, nurses, retail, child care off the top of my head....all need to pay an employee for PTO and pay another employee to work the hours.


Merry Christmas providers, here come the parents asking for 'breaks' months-years after signing a contract agreeing to it.
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  #142  
Old 12-14-2016, 01:35 PM
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To All Day Care Providers. This is why it is ridiculous to charge for your vacation days. You are not an employee. You are self-employed. And in return for all of the decisions you get to make as a self-employed person, you give up certain advantages of being an employee. I do not pay my various contractors (through my work) for work not performed. I am fine paying for days when my kids are sick, as they are taking up spots in daycare. I do not feel it is right to ask for your customers to pay for your time off, as well as, either take their time off around your schedule or pay a second source to do the job you otherwise would have. When I use my PTO at work, my employer does not have to pay a second person to do the work when I am off.
As you said...We are NOT employees. We ARE self-employed. That means WE get to set our policies and do what we want with OUR business. If our customers don't like it they can go elsewhere but we get to decide what we want for OUR business and that may or may not include paid time off.
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  #143  
Old 12-14-2016, 01:36 PM
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Well then how about you chose a provider who does not take paid days off?If I didn't take PTO, I would raise my rates significantly to offset it, so either way, you're paying additional. Contractors tack on extra to accommodate paid days off for themselves and their employees as well. (Husband owns a contracting business).

No, we aren't your employee but you contract for a service. If you don't like the contract, don't sign it and look elsewhere. It goes back to not signing a contract that you don't agree with. They are out there.

Depends on the job if they have to pay to replace you. Teachers, nurses, retail, child care off the top of my head....all need to pay an employee for PTO and pay another employee to work the hours.


Merry Christmas providers, here come the parents asking for 'breaks' months-years after signing a contract agreeing to it.
Gotta love how these things ALWAYS come up around holidays.
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  #144  
Old 12-14-2016, 02:04 PM
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I am just laughing OUT LOUD!

Gym memberships, massage montly fee programs, cable companies, AND MORE: they all charge you for a flat premium that most likely, they know you won't use all of the benefit. They KNOW people sign up thinking "Oh yeah, I'll need to use this" (especially gym membership) and then they don't go. these companies make money off services they don't provide, and KNOW they are unlikely to provide the amount of service they charge for. The bottom line? If the consumer signs the contract, it's a fair practice and the consumer has to pay. Or else? They lose their ability to use the service and get sent to collections or court. Consumers don't like that? They shouldn't sign the dotted line!!!
The big difference here is that if someone signs up for a membership the opportunity is still there for them to use should they want to take advantage of it. They don't just close there doors for a week and expect you to pay. Your quoted contributor is spot on! And your argument doesn't hold water. I don't understand where you and other daycare providers think it is kosh to take advantage of people.
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Old 12-14-2016, 02:14 PM
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As you said...We are NOT employees. We ARE self-employed. That means WE get to set our policies and do what we want with OUR business. If our customers don't like it they can go elsewhere but we get to decide what we want for OUR business and that may or may not include paid time off.
And it sounds like you are all banding together to take advantage of people with a need. Pretty much no better than big pharma. "We know you need life support/cancer curing drugs. Here they are. They are just going to cost you $1000 a pill and you will need to take 1 a day. If you don't like ours go somewhere else." But then you and the other pharma companies have already agreed not to charge less than $1000 a pill.
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  #146  
Old 12-14-2016, 02:32 PM
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The big difference here is that if someone signs up for a membership the opportunity is still there for them to use should they want to take advantage of it. They don't just close there doors for a week and expect you to pay. Your quoted contributor is spot on! And your argument doesn't hold water. I don't understand where you and other daycare providers think it is kosh to take advantage of people.
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And it sounds like you are all banding together to take advantage of people with a need. Pretty much no better than big pharma. "We know you need life support/cancer curing drugs. Here they are. They are just going to cost you $1000 a pill and you will need to take 1 a day. If you don't like ours go somewhere else." But then you and the other pharma companies have already agreed not to charge less than $1000 a pill.
You know what I don't understand?

Parents that don't think that every single dime they pay their provider is worth what they get in return.

Why do parents feel the need to complain about paying for the few days per year that their child care is closed for the holidays or for personal days.

Isn't YOUR child worth those few extra dollars?

Guess not, because I bet you've never spent this amount of time and/or effort whining to your mortgage, internet or cell phone company or your bank about the payments you pay them. Odds are you probably pay them more each month for something far less valuable than your own flesh and blood.

Shame on you!

Unless your provider plops your child in front of the TV all day long and feeds them nothing but PB&J's you really should be ashamed of yourself for complaining about someone that opens her home, her arms and her heart for YOUR CHILD on a daily basis.

I am truly saddened for every provider that has a client like this and my heart breaks for every child that has a parent that feels they pay the person that lovingly cares for them too much.
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Old 12-14-2016, 02:34 PM
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Myself, I think that charging a customer for a service that is not being provided is blasphemy. I myself own two businesses, one with 40 employees, so I hope that my opinion is taken into consideration.

My employees get vacation time, yes, it is an EMPLOYEE BENIFIT. But do I charge my customers to pay for my employees to go on vacation? Of course not!! This is an overhead cost to running a business. As a business owner, I am stuck with overhead costs.

As a dayhome, these people are running their own business. This cost should be their overhead as well. If they want to pay themselves during their vacation time, it should come out of their profit margins just like every other business out there. A business is a business, you provide a good or service. Charging customers for a service that isn't being provided is NOT RIGHT. It is poor business and, in my opinion, theft. Anyone in their right mind who signs a contract agreeing to this term is an idiot.
Wow, thank you so much for your business minded, yet ethical comment! I'm not sure why daycare providers aren't getting it. As a small business owner this is how I see it as well. But I am not out to take advantage of people in need.
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  #148  
Old 12-14-2016, 02:52 PM
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Wow, thank you so much for your business minded, yet ethical comment! I'm not sure why daycare providers aren't getting it. As a small business owner this is how I see it as well. But I am not out to take advantage of people in need.



Apparently your childcare does not fit into that equation. Go ahead...take advantage of the one person who cares for your child! See how far that gets you!
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  #149  
Old 12-14-2016, 10:51 PM
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I don't understand the problem. If you don't agree with the policy why send your child to that provider? Why get upset? Go to a center where they are always open, you pay more but thats so they can hire someone to cover the class when teacher takes PTO. If you don't like what's on TV get up and change the channel, don't cry about it.
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  #150  
Old 12-15-2016, 03:05 AM
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I don't understand the problem. If you don't agree with the policy why send your child to that provider? Why get upset? Go to a center where they are always open, you pay more but thats so they can hire someone to cover the class when teacher takes PTO. If you don't like what's on TV get up and change the channel, don't cry about it.
WELL SAID!!
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  #151  
Old 12-15-2016, 06:51 AM
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Pretty much no better than big pharma. "We know you need life support/cancer curing drugs. Here they are. They are just going to cost you $1000 a pill and you will need to take 1 a day. If you don't like ours go somewhere else." But then you and the other pharma companies have already agreed not to charge less than $1000 a pill.
LMBO!!!! That's gotta be the most inaccurate comparison and worst argument ever. So bad it's hilarious
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  #152  
Old 12-15-2016, 07:19 AM
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LMBO!!!! That's gotta be the most inaccurate comparison and worst argument ever. So bad it's hilarious
My thoughts exactly!
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  #153  
Old 12-15-2016, 07:27 AM
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Every time I see this thread get revived, I am pretty sure I look like this:

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  #154  
Old 12-15-2016, 07:38 AM
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You know what I don't understand?

Parents that don't think that every single dime they pay their provider is worth what they get in return.

Why do parents feel the need to complain about paying for the few days per year that their child care is closed for the holidays or for personal days.

Isn't YOUR child worth those few extra dollars?

Guess not, because I bet you've never spent this amount of time and/or effort whining to your mortgage, internet or cell phone company or your bank about the payments you pay them. Odds are you probably pay them more each month for something far less valuable than your own flesh and blood.

Shame on you!

Unless your provider plops your child in front of the TV all day long and feeds them nothing but PB&J's you really should be ashamed of yourself for complaining about someone that opens her home, her arms and her heart for YOUR CHILD on a daily basis.

I am truly saddened for every provider that has a client like this and my heart breaks for every child that has a parent that feels they pay the person that lovingly cares for them too much.

THANK YOU!


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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Wow, thank you so much for your business minded, yet ethical comment! I'm not sure why daycare providers aren't getting it. As a small business owner this is how I see it as well. But I am not out to take advantage of people in need.
As I stated above, my husband is a small business owner and his mark up is HUGE to include paid holidays for his employees. IF I were to raise my rates, by even .50/DAY it would be MORE to parents in the long run. SO no, I chose to just close and only charge the parents currently using those days instead of raising rates for everyone. Again, if you don't agree to a contract, go elsewhere. In my small town there are 10 providers and we all do things differently. Rate setting/price setting is illegal. We ARE NOT BIG PHARMA.

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Originally Posted by TheMisplacedMidwestMom View Post
I don't understand the problem. If you don't agree with the policy why send your child to that provider? Why get upset? Go to a center where they are always open, you pay more but thats so they can hire someone to cover the class when teacher takes PTO. If you don't like what's on TV get up and change the channel, don't cry about it.
Our local center closes for two weeks every year. I NEVER enroll a client seeking to start after New Years because I pretty much know they gave notice to avoid paying the pto and KNOW they will do the same to me.

BC- yes, that is the exact face I make, too. It's always around the holidays. So not only do we take time out of our day/take money out of our pockets to help make thoughtful gifts for the parents from the children, we get b&&&tched at for taking ANY days off. PAID OR NOT. It's a big screw you to the person who cares for your child like her own, for 50 hours a week, 50 weeks a year!
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Old 12-15-2016, 07:55 AM
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To All Day Care Providers. This is why it is ridiculous to charge for your vacation days. You are not an employee. You are self-employed. And in return for all of the decisions you get to make as a self-employed person, you give up certain advantages of being an employee. I do not pay my various contractors (through my work) for work not performed. I am fine paying for days when my kids are sick, as they are taking up spots in daycare. I do not feel it is right to ask for your customers to pay for your time off, as well as, either take their time off around your schedule or pay a second source to do the job you otherwise would have. When I use my PTO at work, my employer does not have to pay a second person to do the work when I am off.
TO ALL PARENTS WHO COMPLAIN ABOUT PAYING ME ON DAYS OFF: I base my rates on how much I need per year, per slot to stay open. I allow you to make payment how it works for you. If you want to pay my yearly tuition weekly, fine, but you do not get to complain when I take a day off, because that yearly amount will not change. You're not giving me vacation pay when I take a day off because you're making payments toward the yearly tuition weekly. I know that you don't ask your mortgage company, utilities company, and cable company for a break when you're away from home and not using THEIR services, so why do you think it's OK to ask me? They ALSO do not refund you when a transformer goes down and leaves you without power or when there's a cable outage. You don't ask your bank for a break on car payments when you're not using the car or when the car is in the shop-you purchased a car from them, and you're making payments. You purchase a spot in my childcare, and you're making payments. There is no difference.
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  #156  
Old 12-15-2016, 08:01 AM
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Myself, I think that charging a customer for a service that is not being provided is blasphemy. I myself own two businesses, one with 40 employees, so I hope that my opinion is taken into consideration.

My employees get vacation time, yes, it is an EMPLOYEE BENIFIT. But do I charge my customers to pay for my employees to go on vacation? Of course not!! This is an overhead cost to running a business. As a business owner, I am stuck with overhead costs.

As a dayhome, these people are running their own business. This cost should be their overhead as well. If they want to pay themselves during their vacation time, it should come out of their profit margins just like every other business out there. A business is a business, you provide a good or service. Charging customers for a service that isn't being provided is NOT RIGHT. It is poor business and, in my opinion, theft. Anyone in their right mind who signs a contract agreeing to this term is an idiot.


I'm calling BS on this one. To claim that the company's customers don't pay for vacations is an outright lie. If the employees' vacation days don't come out of the company profits, where DO they come from? Does the vacation fairy put money under their pillow? Nope, this business owner sets rates that will cover his or her expenses, INCLUDING employee vacations. OF COURSE they're charging their customers for that!
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Old 12-15-2016, 09:12 AM
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I'm calling BS on this one. To claim that the company's customers don't pay for vacations is an outright lie. If the employees' vacation days don't come out of the company profits, where DO they come from? Does the vacation fairy put money under their pillow? Nope, this business owner sets rates that will cover his or her expenses, INCLUDING employee vacations. OF COURSE they're charging their customers for that!
I agree with this.

My plumber or electrician may not put "vacation time" on the invoice, but then, they charge $100 just to show up, $50-$75 *per hour* for their work, and then cost of the parts. You bet your a$$ I'm paying for their vacations! And health insurance, and retirement, their kids college, etc. etc.etc.

Can you imagine the outrage if Day Care Providers started charging like other businesses?
$75 opening fee, $50 per hour per child fee, $25 per day diapering fee, $60 per day toilet training fee, etc. etc. etc.
Actually, that doesn't sound like a bad idea,

This is the only profession that gets a bad rap for wanting to be paid a living wage.

But this is the last time I'll post here. I'm not interested in debating a private business owner's policies with anonymous internet trolls.
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Old 12-15-2016, 09:30 AM
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The big difference here is that if someone signs up for a membership the opportunity is still there for them to use should they want to take advantage of it. They don't just close there doors for a week and expect you to pay.
Actually many places / gyms do , our karate studio takes off 2 weeks per year and closes . I still pay the same monthly fee even though they are closed and we can not attend . But That is what I agreed to when signing the contract.
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Old 12-15-2016, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Play Care View Post
I agree with this.

My plumber or electrician may not put "vacation time" on the invoice, but then, they charge $100 just to show up, $50-$75 *per hour* for their work, and then cost of the parts. You bet your a$$ I'm paying for their vacations! And health insurance, and retirement, their kids college, etc. etc.etc.

Can you imagine the outrage if Day Care Providers started charging like other businesses?
$75 opening fee, $50 per hour per child fee, $25 per day diapering fee, $60 per day toilet training fee, etc. etc. etc.
Actually, that doesn't sound like a bad idea,

This is the only profession that gets a bad rap for wanting to be paid a living wage.

But this is the last time I'll post here. I'm not interested in debating a private business owner's policies with anonymous internet trolls.
Yes, my dh is giving his guys two weeks PTO for christmas, and a $500 bonus. One of their wives had the audacity to complain about having to pay their provider for that time. I set her straight, fast.

Like I said before, if I raised rates across the board, it would actually cost my parents MORE than paying for my very limited paid days off.

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Originally Posted by Second Home View Post
Actually many places / gyms do , our karate studio takes off 2 weeks per year and closes . I still pay the same monthly fee even though they are closed and we can not attend . But That is what I agreed to when signing the contract.
Yep. Same with karate and hockey here. Two weeks, and we pay monthly regardless. Same situation in reverse for cable, internet, mortgage when you go on vacation.

Again- DON'T SIGN A CONTRACT YOU DON'T AGREE WITH.
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Old 12-15-2016, 01:09 PM
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Actually many places / gyms do , our karate studio takes off 2 weeks per year and closes . I still pay the same monthly fee even though they are closed and we can not attend . But That is what I agreed to when signing the contract.
You're right! I quit my gym because their limited hours didn't work for my schedule.
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Old 12-15-2016, 01:39 PM
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You're right! I quit my gym because their limited hours didn't work for my schedule.
What!?!

Why would you quit?

You need to call them up and make them switch their hours so you can go. They obviously do not understand how this business thing works... you can't make it when they are open so they HAVE to change their hours to accommodate you. If they don't or they refuse to do so, you should charge them with discrimination. I've heard you can do that any time you don't get what you want.

You should also complain to them about the monthly fee they charge you, especially around Christmas time... I usually spend my entire paycheck on stuff I want and rarely have enough left over to pay my rent let alone my gym membership so I think you should demand they lower their monthly fee. It's ridiculous that they think they can charge you what they do when you don't even go that often.

I mean last week when I threw a massive tantrum and made them stay open several hours after their normal closing time so I could go work out, they were happy to oblige me. I kind of felt bad that I didn't even bother going anyways because I heard Star Wars Rogue 1 was premiering at the movie theater and since I only had a few minutes to get tickets, popcorn and a soda, I didn't even bother calling the gym to let them know I wasn't coming but I am sure they didn't mind.

My friend Cindy told me last week she was at the gym and, yeah I know she had strep and probably exposed everyone there but she just kept her head down and tried not to make eye contact with the owner so he didn't have a clue she was sick. Plus Cindy pays a fortune for her membership so she said she pays for it so she has to get her money's worth for sure right?

Well, anyways I think you should call them up and insist they change hours for you, I mean come on... why do they have to charge you so much anyways? If they refuse to change hours for you, you tell them you are going to tell everyone you know how horrible they are. I'd also tell them you are going to cancel the checks you wrote to cover your membership these last few months and you are going to sue them for all your money back.

Geez, the nerve of these people trying to basically steal from you and then dictating when you can use their services?!?! Sheesh! Who do they think they think they are anyways.......
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Old 12-15-2016, 02:29 PM
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BlackCat, a good laugh I soooo needed right now!!!
Especially considering at the moment I'm waiting for the AAA guy to come boost my car so I can get to the store and buy milk for the dcks. He!! I have enough for my morning coffee, maybe I don't even need to go.
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Old 12-15-2016, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
What!?!

Why would you quit?

You need to call them up and make them switch their hours so you can go. They obviously do not understand how this business thing works... you can't make it when they are open so they HAVE to change their hours to accommodate you. If they don't or they refuse to do so, you should charge them with discrimination. I've heard you can do that any time you don't get what you want.

You should also complain to them about the monthly fee they charge you, especially around Christmas time... I usually spend my entire paycheck on stuff I want and rarely have enough left over to pay my rent let alone my gym membership so I think you should demand they lower their monthly fee. It's ridiculous that they think they can charge you what they do when you don't even go that often.

I mean last week when I threw a massive tantrum and made them stay open several hours after their normal closing time so I could go work out, they were happy to oblige me. I kind of felt bad that I didn't even bother going anyways because I heard Star Wars Rogue 1 was premiering at the movie theater and since I only had a few minutes to get tickets, popcorn and a soda, I didn't even bother calling the gym to let them know I wasn't coming but I am sure they didn't mind.

My friend Cindy told me last week she was at the gym and, yeah I know she had strep and probably exposed everyone there but she just kept her head down and tried not to make eye contact with the owner so he didn't have a clue she was sick. Plus Cindy pays a fortune for her membership so she said she pays for it so she has to get her money's worth for sure right?

Well, anyways I think you should call them up and insist they change hours for you, I mean come on... why do they have to charge you so much anyways? If they refuse to change hours for you, you tell them you are going to tell everyone you know how horrible they are. I'd also tell them you are going to cancel the checks you wrote to cover your membership these last few months and you are going to sue them for all your money back.

Geez, the nerve of these people trying to basically steal from you and then dictating when you can use their services?!?! Sheesh! Who do they think they think they are anyways.......


I love our AC guy, but he did a about 1 hour of work and I paid him almost $400, so I apologize if I have no sympathy for parents paying $150+/- a week for 50 hours of care of their child and having to pay some vacation days here and there.
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Old 12-15-2016, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
What!?!

Why would you quit?

You need to call them up and make them switch their hours so you can go. They obviously do not understand how this business thing works... you can't make it when they are open so they HAVE to change their hours to accommodate you. If they don't or they refuse to do so, you should charge them with discrimination. I've heard you can do that any time you don't get what you want.

You should also complain to them about the monthly fee they charge you, especially around Christmas time... I usually spend my entire paycheck on stuff I want and rarely have enough left over to pay my rent let alone my gym membership so I think you should demand they lower their monthly fee. It's ridiculous that they think they can charge you what they do when you don't even go that often.

I mean last week when I threw a massive tantrum and made them stay open several hours after their normal closing time so I could go work out, they were happy to oblige me. I kind of felt bad that I didn't even bother going anyways because I heard Star Wars Rogue 1 was premiering at the movie theater and since I only had a few minutes to get tickets, popcorn and a soda, I didn't even bother calling the gym to let them know I wasn't coming but I am sure they didn't mind.

My friend Cindy told me last week she was at the gym and, yeah I know she had strep and probably exposed everyone there but she just kept her head down and tried not to make eye contact with the owner so he didn't have a clue she was sick. Plus Cindy pays a fortune for her membership so she said she pays for it so she has to get her money's worth for sure right?

Well, anyways I think you should call them up and insist they change hours for you, I mean come on... why do they have to charge you so much anyways? If they refuse to change hours for you, you tell them you are going to tell everyone you know how horrible they are. I'd also tell them you are going to cancel the checks you wrote to cover your membership these last few months and you are going to sue them for all your money back.

Geez, the nerve of these people trying to basically steal from you and then dictating when you can use their services?!?! Sheesh! Who do they think they think they are anyways.......


You're so dead on...I'm gonna ask them to take me back, at least until I can find another gym that lets me dictate their policies and rates (of course, I'm not going to tell THEM that-I'm gonna tell THEM that I'm staying forever!).
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Old 12-15-2016, 06:21 PM
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I guess when I start my daycare, I better not make plans for paid holidays. I'll just add 5% to my rates instead.
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Old 12-16-2016, 09:08 AM
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I guess when I start my daycare, I better not make plans for paid holidays. I'll just add 5% to my rates instead.
YES Mike, and parents will thank you for not taking paid days off.

But they will complain if your rates are higher than ANYWHERE else. With the $800 cell phone, $200 purse and $85 manicure while they gripe about writing that check.

BC- thanks for the laugh! That was sorely needed!

Someone in my town just opened a 24/7 gym. It's 3x the fees of the other gym with limited hours.. smart guy!
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Old 12-16-2016, 09:58 AM
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Usually a person is willing to pay for services that they appreciate. And know child care(as is most care-giving professions) is a very high burn-out job. Time off AND being able to pay bills helps with that a little bit. And usually people who appreciate you know that too.
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Old 12-16-2016, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by daycarediva View Post
Someone in my town just opened a 24/7 gym. It's 3x the fees of the other gym with limited hours.. smart guy!
there was a 24/7 gym a few blocks away from our house that cost something like $35/month with no contract for individual membership... I think it stayed open for a little under 2 years and then closed down. it may not have been worth it to have 24-hour staff + maintain the equipment and showers + all kinds of stuff that goes with running the gym that I may not see when I'm there... $35/month per person probably didn't cover all the expenses.
I was surprised at their rates.
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