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Old 04-22-2017, 09:21 PM
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Default Contract And Neglect

I apologize for the length and typos. I'm writing this post in tears.

We started with a new daycare provider 2 weeks ago. During our interview, she said everything I wanted to hear and seemed to be a great fit for us. Her house is a ranch style with an upstairs daycare area and a downstairs area. The upstairs area is not visible when you walk in (and she doesn't "like" when parents go back there during pick up or drop off). There's also bedrooms with cribs on a separate end of the house. We were ensured her mom was there every day and the kids "love" her.

We started a few days later and the first day seemed great. The next day, we picked her up and she seemed a little fussy but she's not even 8 months old yet, so I didn't think anything of it. After a few days, I noticed a trend that my daughter was always "just waking up from a nap" or "just getting her diaper changed." It didn't matter if it was 2pm or 5pm. She was always in the bedrooms on the other side of the house away from the rest of the kids and I've never heard an adult voice in the house. There's been times she's talked to my boyfriend for a half hour without checking on the other kids. Maybe there is someone else back there, but I strongly feel that there isn't. Every day we have picked her up, her hair is completely knotted in the back as if she is laying on her back all day. yesterday, I pulled into the driveway to find her talking to a client (she breeds dogs) in the driveway. I made a comment about it and she said that the lady was there to do tests on her dog to see if she is in heat. We walked into the house, and she walked into the crib rooms to get my daughter who was left unattended. As she was walking back there she said "Oh [daughter's name], you didn't drink any of your bottle. " again, she is 7 months old. Not only was my daughter left alone, so were the other children for who knows how long.

These are honestly only a few of my concerns. So my question is, do we have a good chance of getting out of our contract? We have to give 1 months notice before leaving but I cannot in good faith send my child back there. I am also not going to pay $800 dollars to a woman who is abusing my daughter. I have no physical evidence yet but am looking into a few different options such as neighborhood security cameras. We are prepared to go to court if needed, but we are just not sure if this is a case we even have a chance at winning.
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Old 04-23-2017, 03:24 AM
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I honestly don't know if it's a case you could win. You'd have to present your case, and contract, to a lawyer. Do you have any lawyer friends??
BUT leaving a 7 mo to feed herself, laying down in a crib, while the provider is all the way outdoors talking with a client.....that alone is a huge issue.
I can see, from a provider's viewpoint, why they'd prefer a month's notice. There are many here who do have that in their policies. I have a 2 week notice. Personally, a month is a long time to pay for services you don't want to use due to neglect of your child. I would pull your dd out FIRST and worry about the money part of it after.
Have you discussed these concerns with your provider? Have you met the other caregiver? Can you check your state's referral list, for any mention of complaints towards this person? Are there other dcks there; do they sound happy, are they interacting? Kids aren't always 100% happy little sweethearts but usually, you can get a good sense of normalcy or 'something just feels off'.
If it were me, I'd pull your sweet helpless baby out and find other care, like now. Then I'd contact licensing, to get info and file a complaint, telling them your baby seems to be left alone for periods of time past what's acceptable(if you're positive that's going on). Then check with an attorney to see if you have a case. It sounds like this might become a she said/she said issue. Courts hear many disgruntled parent cases so it's hard to separate that from a true provider neglect case. You need facts, proof, and a clear understanding of your signed contract. Another thing, are you sure this person is licensed with the state, or legally unlicensed? That doesn't say it all but it certainly can help your case. Have you met any of the other parents or formed any kind of network with them?
As far as getting neighborhood cameras....I'm not sure that would work or be legal.

Good luck with your decision. It must be so scary and difficult finding child care, and with all the negative stories in the media, we never seem to hear the good things.
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Old 04-23-2017, 06:05 AM
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Thank you for your response! I'll try to answer all of your questions.
We have never actually met the other provider because she encourages parents to do quick drop offs and pick ups and stay at the front door. I have only passed by other parents and have not had the chance to talk to them away from her. I have seen 5 different kids but never at the same time, which makes it hard to tell how many are there at a time. There is at least 1 other 9 month old there part time. She is licensed, and I had a friend who is also licensed look up any violations against her. She's had a few but for things like no hand soap in one of the bathrooms. Nothing overly alarming. We have a meeting with a lawyer this week but would like to know what to expect prior to the meeting. We will NOT be taking her back there tomorrow so we need to notify her tonight. I do not handle anger well initially, and it usually turns into tears or screaming. I tend to remove myself from situations to think through things before reacting. At this point, it is not about the money and more about paying someone to neglect my child.

Thanks again for your response! Glad to know my concerns are valid.
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Old 04-23-2017, 07:59 AM
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I wish you good luck!! I don't understand why you were not introduced to the caregiver during your initial interview and tour. I would want to know who is taking care of my child but then I can be an over protective mother hen. I wonder if there even is another provider there? Was anyone in the room when the provider brought you back to get your baby and she made the comment about her not drinking her bottle? Please let us know what the lawyer says.
I'm sure other more insightful providers will comment once the weekend comes to a close.
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Old 04-23-2017, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I apologize for the length and typos. I'm writing this post in tears.

We started with a new daycare provider 2 weeks ago. During our interview, she said everything I wanted to hear and seemed to be a great fit for us. Her house is a ranch style with an upstairs daycare area and a downstairs area. The upstairs area is not visible when you walk in (and she doesn't "like" when parents go back there during pick up or drop off). There's also bedrooms with cribs on a separate end of the house. We were ensured her mom was there every day and the kids "love" her.

We started a few days later and the first day seemed great. The next day, we picked her up and she seemed a little fussy but she's not even 8 months old yet, so I didn't think anything of it. After a few days, I noticed a trend that my daughter was always "just waking up from a nap" or "just getting her diaper changed." It didn't matter if it was 2pm or 5pm. She was always in the bedrooms on the other side of the house away from the rest of the kids and I've never heard an adult voice in the house. There's been times she's talked to my boyfriend for a half hour without checking on the other kids. Maybe there is someone else back there, but I strongly feel that there isn't. Every day we have picked her up, her hair is completely knotted in the back as if she is laying on her back all day. yesterday, I pulled into the driveway to find her talking to a client (she breeds dogs) in the driveway. I made a comment about it and she said that the lady was there to do tests on her dog to see if she is in heat. We walked into the house, and she walked into the crib rooms to get my daughter who was left unattended. As she was walking back there she said "Oh [daughter's name], you didn't drink any of your bottle. " again, she is 7 months old. Not only was my daughter left alone, so were the other children for who knows how long.

These are honestly only a few of my concerns. So my question is, do we have a good chance of getting out of our contract? We have to give 1 months notice before leaving but I cannot in good faith send my child back there. I am also not going to pay $800 dollars to a woman who is abusing my daughter. I have no physical evidence yet but am looking into a few different options such as neighborhood security cameras. We are prepared to go to court if needed, but we are just not sure if this is a case we even have a chance at winning.
Does the provider offer a trial period?
Two weeks is standard.

Sad as any situation is, you did sign a contract agreeing to abide by her notice period. You signed/agreed without knowing it WAS going to work/ be a good fit. That is never wise (unless a trial period was provided)

Whether what happened is accurate or not you may have to pay whatever the contract says you agreed to pay.

The type or level of care provided is separate from the financial obligations and don't necessarily depend on each other.

I'm curious what the actual wording (on the contract) is according to the contract you signed and what the wording says in the handbook in regards to withdrawal procedures.

Can you post that info (word for word)?
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Old 04-23-2017, 09:51 AM
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If you truly feel she is putting your child in a crib and walking away for the day I would absolutely just pull my child and figure out the money/contract issues after.

I would be asking her a lot more questions directly. Ask to meet the other person that's supposedly​ in the house. Ask for a daily report of some sort (nap times, bottle amounts, diapers, etc...). Talk to her. Tell her your concerned about bottles in cribs. Maybe you can come to enough resolution to make it through the month.

I know my infants don't always sleep on an exact schedule and I always send them home in a clean diaper at the end of the day. I also prefer a parent talk to me about concerns.
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Old 04-24-2017, 05:50 AM
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Questions in red!

I apologize for the length and typos. I'm writing this post in tears.

We started with a new daycare provider 2 weeks ago. During our interview, she said everything I wanted to hear and seemed to be a great fit for us. Her house is a ranch style with an upstairs daycare area and a downstairs area. The upstairs area is not visible when you walk in (and she doesn't "like" when parents go back there during pick up or drop off). There's also bedrooms with cribs on a separate end of the house. We were ensured her mom was there every day and the kids "love" her.
Did you ever SEE the upstairs area that the children are in? Did you ever SEE the bedrooms with cribs at the end of the house? Could there be baby monitors in there...hopefully?
Did you ever meet her Mom, who would be an additional caregiver, before enrolling?
If you answered no to any of these I could see it being an issue if you try to go to court.


We started a few days later and the first day seemed great. The next day, we picked her up and she seemed a little fussy but she's not even 8 months old yet, so I didn't think anything of it. After a few days, I noticed a trend that my daughter was always "just waking up from a nap" or "just getting her diaper changed." It didn't matter if it was 2pm or 5pm. She was always in the bedrooms on the other side of the house away from the rest of the kids and I've never heard an adult voice in the house. There's been times she's talked to my boyfriend for a half hour without checking on the other kids. Maybe there is someone else back there, but I strongly feel that there isn't. Every day we have picked her up, her hair is completely knotted in the back as if she is laying on her back all day. yesterday, I pulled into the driveway to find her talking to a client (she breeds dogs) in the driveway. I made a comment about it and she said that the lady was there to do tests on her dog to see if she is in heat. We walked into the house, and she walked into the crib rooms to get my daughter who was left unattended. As she was walking back there she said "Oh [daughter's name], you didn't drink any of your bottle. " again, she is 7 months old. Not only was my daughter left alone, so were the other children for who knows how long.
Did you record the date, time, and what was said for documentation purposes?
Did you inquire as to who was watching the children?


These are honestly only a few of my concerns. So my question is, do we have a good chance of getting out of our contract? We have to give 1 months notice before leaving but I cannot in good faith send my child back there. I am also not going to pay $800 dollars to a woman who is abusing my daughter. I have no physical evidence yet but am looking into a few different options such as neighborhood security cameras. We are prepared to go to court if needed, but we are just not sure if this is a case we even have a chance at winning.
I'm unsure if you'd even be able to go to court. Especially if you enrolled, signed the contract, and don't have proof. But, I would not take my child back there.
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Old 04-26-2017, 01:39 PM
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I have been in a similar situation (daycare provider was leaving children in her home completely unattended) and one parent hired a lawyer and as far as I know, nothing came of it.

All parents pulled their children. The daycare provider's husband actually stepped in and issued refunds for all services paid for but not fulfilled. Of course this could be a rare case, but this was my experience.

I learned that almost all of the parents had seen SOMETHING to indicate something was off but until they came together and began talking to each other about it, no one could tell what was going on. Everyone wished they had expressed their concerns with the other parents earlier. Trust your gut. Don't send your daughter back. Report.
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Old 04-27-2017, 04:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happymom View Post
I have been in a similar situation (daycare provider was leaving children in her home completely unattended) and one parent hired a lawyer and as far as I know, nothing came of it.

All parents pulled their children. The daycare provider's husband actually stepped in and issued refunds for all services paid for but not fulfilled. Of course this could be a rare case, but this was my experience.

I learned that almost all of the parents had seen SOMETHING to indicate something was off but until they came together and began talking to each other about it, no one could tell what was going on. Everyone wished they had expressed their concerns with the other parents earlier. Trust your gut. Don't send your daughter back. Report.
And this is hopefully a rare situation but the same thing kind of happened to a provider in our state a year or 2 ago. Families kept seeing things that weren't quite right but didn't feel right reporting issues, didn't want to cause those ripples. Then a 3 yo dcb fell into the brook, WENT UN-NOTICED until a parent came to pick them up. They had been walking by a brook. And dcb never came back with them. I have no idea how something like that goes un-noticed. But there were evidently lots of other issues leading up to the ultimate tragedy. Best to say something and have it go on file.
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Old 04-27-2017, 11:18 AM
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Oh that is so awful. I can't even imagine =(
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Old 04-27-2017, 11:29 AM
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Sorry this is all taking place. I would pay the $800 to honor my contract and pull my child. Consider it a lesson learned and going forward:
  • Ask to see all areas the child will have access to, even for sleep.
  • Ask for the full names and to meet all who will be caring for the children (know there is turn over in child care but you should know initially)
  • Ask their policy on parents in the space? Do they have an open door policy? (I have children ready to go outside when parents arrive for pick up but encourage them to come inside in the mornings to engage with their child before heading off to work, etc. ---- at the end of the day though I am ready for them to go and not linger hence the children being ready and outside)
  • Ask their transition policy. I encourage parents to transition over 2-3 days into our program...
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Old 04-27-2017, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by CityGarden View Post
Sorry this is all taking place. I would pay the $800 to honor my contract and pull my child. Consider it a lesson learned and going forward:
  • Ask to see all areas the child will have access to, even for sleep.
  • Ask for the full names and to meet all who will be caring for the children (know there is turn over in child care but you should know initially)
  • Ask their policy on parents in the space? Do they have an open door policy? (I have children ready to go outside when parents arrive for pick up but encourage them to come inside in the mornings to engage with their child before heading off to work, etc. ---- at the end of the day though I am ready for them to go and not linger hence the children being ready and outside)
  • Ask their transition policy. I encourage parents to transition over 2-3 days into our program...

THIS, and I would be calling licensing and reporting my concerns. These are serious allegations, and a surprise licensing visit may/may not uncover anything, but I would call anyway.
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