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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Reasons You Question How Well The State Knows Kids...
Lissa Kristine 09:34 AM 11-12-2017
Ever look at state regulations and question whether your state knows ANYTHING about kids.

For example, in NJ, you can have 6 18 month to 2 year olds per teacher. At 2-1/2, it jumps up to a 1:10 ratio.

Have these people ever SEEN a 2-1/2 year old?!

Sometimes, state regulations baffle me.

Children under 1 year old are not allowed to have any blankets while sleeping. The ONLY thing they're allowed to have is a sleep sack. I get it. I really do.

Problem is, making rules based on AGE in this case makes absolutely NO sense. In one daycare, you can have a child who is 10 months old who is already walking around, and one who is 14 months who hasn't taken his first steps yet. Yet, the 14 month old is allowed a blanket in his crib because he's over the age of one. Yet the 10 month old, who is physically more "advanced" than his friend who is 4 months his senior is not allowed a blanket.

Anyone else notice any state regulations that really don't make sense?
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Michael 01:42 PM 11-12-2017
Welcome to the forum. I'll upgrade your status.
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flying_babyb 01:44 PM 11-12-2017
Yea, I get it! we can have 14 kids between 2-3 in our classroom. So I get a bunch of twos and a few 3s so I end up with 9 kids by myself. Does state not realize that two year old are hard little beings who need lots of attention? Heck, 1 to 4 with infants is hard enough!
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Lissa Kristine 02:24 PM 11-12-2017
It's not even a case of "have they ever worked with toddlers before?" It's more of a case of "have they ever SEEN a toddler before?"

The general consensus is, no, they have not.
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Josiegirl 02:30 PM 11-12-2017
Two things
1. You're preaching to the choir here. lol
2. You're talking about the state. lol
A lot, ok probably most, of the state rule makers have no clue about children, what they need, what's developmentally appropriate; they're only going by what they think or what new-age beliefs are at the moment.
Just look at the mess in most every state with quality child care and what they're all pushing to achieve that label.
Look at all the rules they're pushing onto teachers with standardized testing, etc. Look at all the ridiculous new rules with the Food Program.
Any place the state is involved, you have to shake your head in disbelief and ask why.
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Blackcat31 03:49 PM 11-12-2017
I agree but it costs money to decipher one situation from another.

Like group care, that kind of individual ďattentionĒ isnít feasible.
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Mike 06:00 PM 11-12-2017
A perfect example of how little is put towards making rules is how one state or province says you can watch 8 infants or toddlers, while another says the limit is 2. What's the difference? Are DCPs in one state or province better than the ones in the other? There are so many differences between different areas, and even among counties. Wouldn't it make more sense for them all to get together, figure out what it really should be, then make minor variations if they want.
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BumbleBee 05:15 AM 11-13-2017
It's not just daycare that the state is clueless about, I have many daycare families who are farmers (fruit, veggies, pigs, cows, etc) and they say the same thing about their state rules. The general consensus amongst them is the state has never set foot in a farm. Ever.
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midaycare 05:16 AM 11-13-2017
Originally Posted by Mike:
Are DCPs in one state or province better than the ones in the other?
I'm not sure of the validity of the study, but I heard that dcps in MI are the best...hahahahaha

Yeah the different ratios are crazy.
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nanglgrl 07:18 AM 11-15-2017
The emergency plans I have to post by every exit. None of these children can read, I don't have employees. I added plans for volcanic eruption and apocalypse on mine years ago and no one noticed.
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DaveA 08:36 AM 11-15-2017
Originally Posted by nanglgrl:
The emergency plans I have to post by every exit. None of these children can read, I don't have employees. I added plans for volcanic eruption and apocalypse on mine years ago and no one noticed.
Oh I may have to do that and see how long before someone notices.

I have 3 exits within 15 feet of the classroom. All of them directly visible when in the classroom. I had to make an post an evac plan complete with map
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midaycare 09:15 AM 11-15-2017
Originally Posted by nanglgrl:
The emergency plans I have to post by every exit. None of these children can read, I don't have employees. I added plans for volcanic eruption and apocalypse on mine years ago and no one noticed.
I am so adding zombie apocalypse now.
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Lissa Kristine 09:20 AM 11-15-2017
Originally Posted by DaveA:
Oh I may have to do that and see how long before someone notices.

I have 3 exits within 15 feet of the classroom. All of them directly visible when in the classroom. I had to make an post an evac plan complete with map
Evacuation plans make me laugh.

If the fire is in the front of the building, use the middle and back exits.

If the fire is in the back of the building, use the front and middle exits.

If the fire is in the middle of the building, use the front and back exits.

UM... DUH!!!!!!!
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Mom2Two 12:57 PM 11-15-2017
It might not be your imagination. In our state (Utah), our rules were made by a bunch of law makers. Literally...our daycare rules were made by lawyers. It has taken a long time to slowly get them changed. Our head admin (dude who signs our licenses) told us that even getting one little word changed is a major epic accomplishment with how much process it has to go through.
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hwichlaz 04:29 PM 11-15-2017
They want the 2 yo on a cot an not in a playpen for nap. yet he has CP and doesn't sit up on his own yet, let alone walk or climb. He's safer in the playpen. He can't nap on the cot because he rolls off, so I end up putting a blanket or mat on the floor for him, and he rolls halfway across the room until he gets stuck under a piece of furniture.
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Ariana 06:14 PM 11-15-2017
They have to pretend their jobs are important somehow right? Lol

My daughter is in kindergarten and here they start if the child is 4 by December. That means my daughters class has 3.5 yr olds in it. There are two teachers with 26 kids ages 3.5 - 5 years. Roughly 1:15 ratio. In a daycare the law is 1:8 for that age. Why are teachers suddenly more able to handle young kids at higher ratios because they are in a school?? Makes zero sense.
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Mike 06:56 PM 11-15-2017
Originally Posted by DaveA:
Oh I may have to do that and see how long before someone notices.

I have 3 exits within 15 feet of the classroom. All of them directly visible when in the classroom. I had to make an post an evac plan complete with map
I hope your map is nice and colorful for the kids.
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CeriBear 05:05 AM 11-16-2017
With pre-k the ration is 12 kids to 1 adult. Obviously they donít know what it is like to have to get 12 four year olds ready to go outside when we need to wear our coats and hats.
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midaycare 05:12 AM 11-16-2017
Originally Posted by Ariana:
They have to pretend their jobs are important somehow right? Lol

My daughter is in kindergarten and here they start if the child is 4 by December. That means my daughters class has 3.5 yr olds in it. There are two teachers with 26 kids ages 3.5 - 5 years. Roughly 1:15 ratio. In a daycare the law is 1:8 for that age. Why are teachers suddenly more able to handle young kids at higher ratios because they are in a school?? Makes zero sense.
A million times this.
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Jupadia 06:47 AM 11-16-2017
Originally Posted by Ariana:
They have to pretend their jobs are important somehow right? Lol

My daughter is in kindergarten and here they start if the child is 4 by December. That means my daughters class has 3.5 yr olds in it. There are two teachers with 26 kids ages 3.5 - 5 years. Roughly 1:15 ratio. In a daycare the law is 1:8 for that age. Why are teachers suddenly more able to handle young kids at higher ratios because they are in a school?? Makes zero sense.
This again. Cause my kid the same way at school.
I'm constantly on my husband about letting our 4 year old do things himself, I have to remind him that his teachers have 25 kids between 2 of them and can't keep helping him do things like zippers every time.
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Unregistered 07:46 AM 11-16-2017
The illness's the state says is best practice to NOT exclude children from day care are Hand Foot Mouth, head lice, MRSA, Pink eye, ring worn. All things ibexclude for and won't budge on it no matter what the state suggest. Thank God they don't dictate my illness policy's
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Blackcat31 07:53 AM 11-16-2017
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
The illness's the state says is best practice to NOT exclude children from day care are Hand Foot Mouth, head lice, MRSA, Pink eye, ring worn. All things ibexclude for and won't budge on it no matter what the state suggest. Thank God they don't dictate my illness policy's
yet
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amberrose3dg 09:26 AM 11-16-2017
You are not coming to daycare with head lice.
Sorry but parents would bring them with Ebola if we let them.
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flying_babyb 11:30 AM 11-18-2017
Originally Posted by CeridwenLynne:
With pre-k the ration is 12 kids to 1 adult. Obviously they donít know what it is like to have to get 12 four year olds ready to go outside when we need to wear our coats and hats.
they assume at least a few can do most of it themselves. My twos put on there coats and hats alone. line up for zipping and mittening! took me about a month of saying "we flip it, flip-it good" (yes in the song voice) to get them to learn to do it alone).
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CeriBear 05:22 PM 11-18-2017
Most of my 3-4 year olds can put their coats on but have trouble zipping and buttoning. A few of them donít like to do it for themselves but I have them give it a try.
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nothingwithoutjoy 07:12 PM 11-30-2017
Originally Posted by nanglgrl:
The emergency plans I have to post by every exit. None of these children can read, I don't have employees. I added plans for volcanic eruption and apocalypse on mine years ago and no one noticed.
Oh, my gosh...this is cracking me up. This is a serious pet peeve for me. I had my evacuation maps posted (so stupid!), and yet I got in trouble because I'd missed a new rule that said I needed EXIT signs over the doors. If a child needs to get away from a fire, are they going to look for an EXIT sign...or for a DOOR!?! We're not talking about a light-up sign here to help in the dark--he suggested a handwritten sign by one of the older children. To go over the French doors--through which you can clearly see the outdoors.
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e.j. 12:07 PM 12-01-2017
Originally Posted by nothingwithoutjoy:
Oh, my gosh...this is cracking me up. This is a serious pet peeve for me. I had my evacuation maps posted (so stupid!), and yet I got in trouble because I'd missed a new rule that said I needed EXIT signs over the doors. If a child needs to get away from a fire, are they going to look for an EXIT sign...or for a DOOR!?! We're not talking about a light-up sign here to help in the dark--he suggested a handwritten sign by one of the older children. To go over the French doors--through which you can clearly see the outdoors.
This regulation has "regulatory overkill" written all over it! Maybe it makes sense in some larger, public buildings with windowless corridors that you can get disoriented in if you're not familiar with the layout but I would guess most family day care providers (and their dc kids/families) know where the home's exits are. My home isn't quite open concept but close. As I told a past licensor, the dc kids can't read and if any adult can't find his way out of here without an exit sign to show the way, he needs more help than any exit sign can give him!
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Lissa Kristine 12:04 PM 12-02-2017
Originally Posted by CeridwenLynne:
Most of my 3-4 year olds can put their coats on but have trouble zipping and buttoning. A few of them donít like to do it for themselves but I have them give it a try.
That's my approach. I figure at the very least, it gives them something to do while they wait their turn for me to help them if they can't.

I also question the 1:4 ratio for infants under 18 months in NJ. I think it should be lower for younger infants who are completely dependent. Then, it can go up to a 1:4 after 9 months or so when the children should be slightly more independent and able to start doing more things like eating finger foods or holding their own bottles. Yesterday, I was alone with a sick 6 month old (though we weren't aware that he was sick at the time- just that he was fussy and wanted to be held), a 5 month old who was new to the daycare, an almost 7 month old who wanted me to help him stand/wanted to climb on me, and a teething 7 month old- also new to the daycare). I was alone with four infants who needed my attention for various reasons. I can only hold so many babies at once.

Personally, if I were to make modifications, it would be:

Under 18 months 1:4 <-- Split this in half with the younger half being a 1:2 or 1:3 ratio.

18 months up to 21/2 years 1:6 <---same

2-1/2 years up to 4 years- 1:10 <--- split. 2-1/2 to 3 should be a 1:8 ratio.

4 years- 1:12 <--- same

5 years and older 1:15 <--- same.


Though, I also think there should be regulations requiring at least two teachers in a classroom even if ratios allow for one. So, a classroom of 5 two year olds would have two teachers in it, but with ratios in effect, you still don't need a third teacher until you add child number 13. Because there's a world of difference between being alone with 6 toddlers and being with a dozen toddlers with another adult in the room.
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