Daycare.com Forum
Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>What Am I Missing?
Jenniferdawn 10:43 PM 09-27-2011
I hear some of you from California say things like " it's against California law to have a baby sleep upstairs" or " it's against California law to have a baby sleep in the carseat". I'm at the very end stage if getting licensed and I haven't been given any info like that. Is there somewhere else I'm supposed to be reading to know about all those little specific rules? I just read through the huge manual of policies and procedures and saw no specifics like that. What am I missing?
Cat Herder 04:30 AM 09-28-2011
IMHO, These things are considered Minimum Standard of Care, Nationally, in Professional Child Care of infants. The only odd thing was that California considered infants to be those under 24 months. That would cut my current ratios in half since here we are allowed 3 infants (under 12 months) and up to 6 under 3.
Most of this should be covered in your mandatory training hours, as well.
California:
"101223 Child's Rights
* To receive safe, healthful and comfortable accommodations.
* Not to be placed in a restraining device". (car seat, highchair, swing, etc.)
101229: Responsibility for Providing Care and Supervision
"The Licensee shall provide care and supervision as necessary to meet the children's needs. No child will be left without supervision of a teacher at any time. Supervision includes visual observation."
101429: Responsibility for Providing Care and Supervision for Infants
"In addition to 101229, each child shall be constantly supervised and under direct visual observation by a staff person at all times. Under no circumstances shall any infant be left unattended."
http://ccld.ca.gov/res/pdf/CCCRegulationHighlights.pdf
Most of this should be covered in your mandatory training hours, as well.
California:
"101223 Child's Rights
* To receive safe, healthful and comfortable accommodations.
* Not to be placed in a restraining device". (car seat, highchair, swing, etc.)
101229: Responsibility for Providing Care and Supervision
"The Licensee shall provide care and supervision as necessary to meet the children's needs. No child will be left without supervision of a teacher at any time. Supervision includes visual observation."
101429: Responsibility for Providing Care and Supervision for Infants
"In addition to 101229, each child shall be constantly supervised and under direct visual observation by a staff person at all times. Under no circumstances shall any infant be left unattended."
http://ccld.ca.gov/res/pdf/CCCRegulationHighlights.pdf
Crystal 06:42 AM 09-28-2011
If you are licensed for a LARGE license, the Fire Marshall is who institutes the regs for no use of the upstairs. Small license (6-8) you can use the upstairs.
The no carseat rule isn't spelled out specifically, but if you ever get a visit and have a baby sleeping or strapped into a carseat they will cite you. It's in the health and safety code, which is actually separate from the licensing manual....but while reading the manual you will see references to the health and safety code and even though it isn't written in the reg manual, you are expected to look up the health and safety code.
Tricky, aren't they?!
The no carseat rule isn't spelled out specifically, but if you ever get a visit and have a baby sleeping or strapped into a carseat they will cite you. It's in the health and safety code, which is actually separate from the licensing manual....but while reading the manual you will see references to the health and safety code and even though it isn't written in the reg manual, you are expected to look up the health and safety code.
Tricky, aren't they?!
Crystal 06:43 AM 09-28-2011
Cat...the regs you cited are for Centers, not FCC, but it SHOULD be in the FCC regs.
AnythingsPossible 06:46 AM 09-28-2011
Our regulations state that infants must be within sight and sound at all times and no sleeping child should ever be on a seperate floor then the care provider. I am not in California.
Infants can not sleep in swings, bouncers or car seats.
Infants can not sleep in swings, bouncers or car seats.
sharlan 07:08 AM 09-28-2011
Originally Posted by Jenniferdawn:
I hear some of you from California say things like " it's against California law to have a baby sleep upstairs" or " it's against California law to have a baby sleep in the carseat". I'm at the very end stage if getting licensed and I haven't been given any info like that. Is there somewhere else I'm supposed to be reading to know about all those little specific rules? I just read through the huge manual of policies and procedures and saw no specifics like that. What am I missing?
CA has so much gray area in their licensing/rules/regulations.I hear some of you from California say things like " it's against California law to have a baby sleep upstairs" or " it's against California law to have a baby sleep in the carseat". I'm at the very end stage if getting licensed and I haven't been given any info like that. Is there somewhere else I'm supposed to be reading to know about all those little specific rules? I just read through the huge manual of policies and procedures and saw no specifics like that. What am I missing?
Cat Herder 07:15 AM 09-28-2011
Originally Posted by Crystal:
Cat...the regs you cited are for Centers, not FCC, but it SHOULD be in the FCC regs.
I agree, and it is here....Cat...the regs you cited are for Centers, not FCC, but it SHOULD be in the FCC regs.
I just saw she had gone 6 hours wthout a reply, so tried my best to find it for her...
Again, these are all in the training classes, I am sure.
Jenniferdawn 07:50 AM 09-28-2011
Ok, so the health and safety code is what i haven't read yet. My health and safety class is next week, so that must be why I feel like I'm missing so much information! I figured it would have been in the manuel I read last night.
And just so you know, I didn't ask the question because I think the regulations are bad, it's just that I wanted to make sure I knew what i was allowed/wasn't allowed to do. Thanks all! I feel a little silly now.
And just so you know, I didn't ask the question because I think the regulations are bad, it's just that I wanted to make sure I knew what i was allowed/wasn't allowed to do. Thanks all! I feel a little silly now.
Cat Herder 07:56 AM 09-28-2011
Originally Posted by Jenniferdawn:
And just so you know, I didn't ask the question because I think the regulations are bad, it's just that I wanted to make sure I knew what i was allowed/wasn't allowed to do. Thanks all! I feel a little silly now.
Oh, gosh....DON'T. It almost takes a law degree to decipher this stuff. And just so you know, I didn't ask the question because I think the regulations are bad, it's just that I wanted to make sure I knew what i was allowed/wasn't allowed to do. Thanks all! I feel a little silly now.
Every monitor who comes out seems to interpret them differently...
I am 17 years in and still have to keep on my toes. It is frustrating.If it werent for this forum MOST of us would be at a loss most of the time....
mom2many 08:05 AM 09-28-2011
I've been told by my last licensing Analyst that they go over things more specifically in the orientation. However, when you have been licensed as long as I have a great deal has changed in 25 years! 
To make it worse, in CA things vary from county to county and even among the counties each analyst interprets the regulations differently.
On my last unannounced visit, the analyst wanted to cite me for having an infant car seat on my premises. It was not being used, nor would it ever be when the child was in my care. It was a situation of one parent dropping off and another picking up, so they were going to need it for later. I appealed this citation and the manager agreed with me and reversed it.
I would ask to get things in writing such as what child proof locks are approved, because these are not in any manual. "Inaccessible" is open for interpretation and there are many grey areas as pps have mentioned!
To make it worse, in CA things vary from county to county and even among the counties each analyst interprets the regulations differently.
On my last unannounced visit, the analyst wanted to cite me for having an infant car seat on my premises. It was not being used, nor would it ever be when the child was in my care. It was a situation of one parent dropping off and another picking up, so they were going to need it for later. I appealed this citation and the manager agreed with me and reversed it.
I would ask to get things in writing such as what child proof locks are approved, because these are not in any manual. "Inaccessible" is open for interpretation and there are many grey areas as pps have mentioned!
Jenniferdawn 08:17 AM 09-28-2011
More specific in the orientation??? Hahahaha! Have they ever done the on line orientation? They do not give any of the specifics, t least not the sacramento one. It is just a very broad and general over view. I think California needs some help...
sharlan 08:21 AM 09-28-2011
Originally Posted by Jenniferdawn:
More specific in the orientation??? Hahahaha! Have they ever done the on line orientation? They do not give any of the specifics, t least not the sacramento one. It is just a very broad and general over view. I think California needs some help...
You're right. Don't ever feel silly for asking questions. That's how we all learn.More specific in the orientation??? Hahahaha! Have they ever done the on line orientation? They do not give any of the specifics, t least not the sacramento one. It is just a very broad and general over view. I think California needs some help...
Jenniferdawn 08:22 AM 09-28-2011
Originally Posted by mom2many:
I would ask to get things in writing such as what child proof locks are approved, because these are not in any manual. "Inaccessible" is open for interpretation and there are many grey areas as pps have mentioned!
That's a good idea. I wonder if they would do that? it's worth a shot...I would ask to get things in writing such as what child proof locks are approved, because these are not in any manual. "Inaccessible" is open for interpretation and there are many grey areas as pps have mentioned!
Jenniferdawn 08:22 AM 09-28-2011
Thanks Sharlan. 
daycare 08:23 AM 09-28-2011
Originally Posted by Jenniferdawn:
I hear some of you from California say things like " it's against California law to have a baby sleep upstairs" or " it's against California law to have a baby sleep in the carseat". I'm at the very end stage if getting licensed and I haven't been given any info like that. Is there somewhere else I'm supposed to be reading to know about all those little specific rules? I just read through the huge manual of policies and procedures and saw no specifics like that. What am I missing?
Call licensing and ask for a book of regulations and rules.I hear some of you from California say things like " it's against California law to have a baby sleep upstairs" or " it's against California law to have a baby sleep in the carseat". I'm at the very end stage if getting licensed and I haven't been given any info like that. Is there somewhere else I'm supposed to be reading to know about all those little specific rules? I just read through the huge manual of policies and procedures and saw no specifics like that. What am I missing?
Trust me they didn't give me anything either and after over almost 8 years ofbusiness I learned a lot from this site.
Also if you have a county health nurse she may have info for you as well. She or he will be able to help you on all things related to health and safety.
Crystal 08:36 AM 09-28-2011
Originally Posted by daycare:
Call licensing and ask for a book of regulations and rules.
Trust me they didn't give me anything either and after over almost 8 years ofbusiness I learned a lot from this site.
Also if you have a county health nurse she may have info for you as well. She or he will be able to help you on all things related to health and safety.
Unfortunately Ca doesn't provide the book anymore....it's all on-line. At least not in Sac.Call licensing and ask for a book of regulations and rules.
Trust me they didn't give me anything either and after over almost 8 years ofbusiness I learned a lot from this site.
Also if you have a county health nurse she may have info for you as well. She or he will be able to help you on all things related to health and safety.
sharlan 08:43 AM 09-28-2011
Originally Posted by Crystal:
Unfortunately Ca doesn't provide the book anymore....it's all on-line. At least not in Sac.
Everything available is online, even the forms.Unfortunately Ca doesn't provide the book anymore....it's all on-line. At least not in Sac.
Back in the old days, licensing provided you with all the forms that you needed. Now you have to download everything.
daycare 08:49 AM 09-28-2011
Originally Posted by sharlan:
Everything available is online, even the forms.
Back in the old days, licensing provided you with all the forms that you needed. Now you have to download everything.
True, but my county health nurse just gave me one about 3 months ago. It was dared 2009...Everything available is online, even the forms.
Back in the old days, licensing provided you with all the forms that you needed. Now you have to download everything.
mom2many 08:58 AM 09-28-2011
Yes, don't ever feel like asking a question is stupid! I get so frustrated trying to stay within regs here in CA and if I didn't care, it would be no biggie...so I can totally imagine how it must feel starting out and trying to make sure you are doing everything right.
After my last visit, I poured over regs for hours trying to ensure I was completely 100% in compliance and was appalled to find so little in writing and available to providers to follow.
After my last visit, I poured over regs for hours trying to ensure I was completely 100% in compliance and was appalled to find so little in writing and available to providers to follow.
MarinaVanessa 09:14 AM 09-28-2011
Originally Posted by sharlan:
Everything available is online, even the forms.
Back in the old days, licensing provided you with all the forms that you needed. Now you have to download everything.
Unfortunately even though you can download everything online in CA it isn't exactly spelled out there either... and like it's been mentioned, each county and region and even each licensing worker interprets the regulations however they want.Everything available is online, even the forms.
Back in the old days, licensing provided you with all the forms that you needed. Now you have to download everything.
Someone from licensing that may have had experience with a drowning for example could completely freak out about a small container (tupperware size) left in the yard overnight with a small amount of water in it or cite a provider for a bathroom door left open without a lock on the toilet whereas someone else from licensing wouldn't see either one of these as a problem.
Unfortunately licensing in CA is all over the place. I appreciate what they do and what they are trying to accomplish but I wish they were more unified and more specific. I do understand that they can't be specific however because there's always going to be some dodo bird that will say "Well, it doesn't say that in the policies". I think it's all a matter of common sense.
familyschoolcare 09:23 AM 09-28-2011
Originally Posted by Jenniferdawn:
I hear some of you from California say things like " it's against California law to have a baby sleep upstairs" or " it's against California law to have a baby sleep in the carseat". I'm at the very end stage if getting licensed and I haven't been given any info like that. Is there somewhere else I'm supposed to be reading to know about all those little specific rules? I just read through the huge manual of policies and procedures and saw no specifics like that. What am I missing?
Everything, everyone has said is good advice.I hear some of you from California say things like " it's against California law to have a baby sleep upstairs" or " it's against California law to have a baby sleep in the carseat". I'm at the very end stage if getting licensed and I haven't been given any info like that. Is there somewhere else I'm supposed to be reading to know about all those little specific rules? I just read through the huge manual of policies and procedures and saw no specifics like that. What am I missing?
Just wanted to add that where I leaned about not leaving an infant in a "restraining device" was my health and safety class. The teacher also talked about how to prevent SIDS for 30 mins when she did say that an infant in a child care setting should never be placed to sleep in a room that does not have an adult in it, esp. upstairs.
Jenniferdawn 09:30 AM 09-28-2011
Originally Posted by familyschoolcare:
Everything, everyone has said is good advice.
Just wanted to add that where I leaned about not leaving an infant in a "restraining device" was my health and safety class. The teacher also talked about how to prevent SIDS for 30 mins when she did say that an infant in a child care setting should never be placed to sleep in a room that does not have an adult in it, esp. upstairs.
i guess i get the logic behind being in the same room as a sleeping infant, but really, being practical, when you have 8 kids in the house, how in the world can you have a sleeping infant in the main room and expect them to actually sleep with the ruckus of the rest of the house going on around them?Everything, everyone has said is good advice.
Just wanted to add that where I leaned about not leaving an infant in a "restraining device" was my health and safety class. The teacher also talked about how to prevent SIDS for 30 mins when she did say that an infant in a child care setting should never be placed to sleep in a room that does not have an adult in it, esp. upstairs.
familyschoolcare 09:39 AM 09-28-2011
Originally Posted by Jenniferdawn:
i guess i get the logic behind being in the same room as a sleeping infant, but really, being practical, when you have 8 kids in the house, how in the world can you have a sleeping infant in the main room and expect them to actually sleep with the ruckus of the rest of the house going on around them?
both of my children always slept in the main part of the house during the day (I even vacuumed right next to them) if it is done starting at an early age it works.i guess i get the logic behind being in the same room as a sleeping infant, but really, being practical, when you have 8 kids in the house, how in the world can you have a sleeping infant in the main room and expect them to actually sleep with the ruckus of the rest of the house going on around them?
Cat Herder 09:43 AM 09-28-2011
Originally Posted by Jenniferdawn:
i guess i get the logic behind being in the same room as a sleeping infant, but really, being practical, when you have 8 kids in the house, how in the world can you have a sleeping infant in the main room and expect them to actually sleep with the ruckus of the rest of the house going on around them?
I do it everyday, but it requires routine, routine, routine and consistency. (ages birth through 4)i guess i get the logic behind being in the same room as a sleeping infant, but really, being practical, when you have 8 kids in the house, how in the world can you have a sleeping infant in the main room and expect them to actually sleep with the ruckus of the rest of the house going on around them?
It took a few years to perfect.
Crystal 09:45 AM 09-28-2011
Originally Posted by Jenniferdawn:
i guess i get the logic behind being in the same room as a sleeping infant, but really, being practical, when you have 8 kids in the house, how in the world can you have a sleeping infant in the main room and expect them to actually sleep with the ruckus of the rest of the house going on around them?
I do it with 14 kids.....infants do adjust to noise levels, and the others learn to not yell when babies are sleeping i guess i get the logic behind being in the same room as a sleeping infant, but really, being practical, when you have 8 kids in the house, how in the world can you have a sleeping infant in the main room and expect them to actually sleep with the ruckus of the rest of the house going on around them?
sharlan 10:14 AM 09-28-2011
Originally Posted by Jenniferdawn:
i guess i get the logic behind being in the same room as a sleeping infant, but really, being practical, when you have 8 kids in the house, how in the world can you have a sleeping infant in the main room and expect them to actually sleep with the ruckus of the rest of the house going on around them?
Routine and consistancy. I've always kept my infants in the family room with the rest of us. I've always had a great fear of SIDS. I keep a small crib or pack and play in the corner, totally off limits to all little ones.i guess i get the logic behind being in the same room as a sleeping infant, but really, being practical, when you have 8 kids in the house, how in the world can you have a sleeping infant in the main room and expect them to actually sleep with the ruckus of the rest of the house going on around them?
mom2many 10:39 AM 09-28-2011
Originally Posted by sharlan:
Routine and consistancy. I've always kept my infants in the family room with the rest of us. I've always had a great fear of SIDS. I keep a small crib or pack and play in the corner, totally off limits to all little ones.
Yes, this is what I have always done too! They sleep through all of the chaos and playing in the same room or adjacent room. I always want to keep an eye on them!Routine and consistancy. I've always kept my infants in the family room with the rest of us. I've always had a great fear of SIDS. I keep a small crib or pack and play in the corner, totally off limits to all little ones.
Crystal 01:19 PM 09-28-2011
Re. California Licensing Regs....I want to say that just because something is not listed in the regs doesn't mean that we should allow a lapse in judgement that could potentially cause harm to a child. Some very common sense things are not listed in the regs.....California has VERY minimal licensing standards, and due to that there are a significant number of injuries and deaths each year in licensed facilities. I have always thought their standards were to simple and that basically anyone can become a licensed provider.....there are more exceptions for people with criminal backgrounds than one would ever imagine.....pages and pages in the regs on criminal activity that allows for exceptions, yet no spelling out of the most basic health and safety related care of children.
I think it is highly neccessary for providers to educate themselves and not rely on the fact that they recieved a license based on minimal standards to allow them to do things they should not do. I think providers MUST go above and beyond what is required by licensing to provide SAFE, HEALTHY, NURTURING care and environments.
I think it is highly neccessary for providers to educate themselves and not rely on the fact that they recieved a license based on minimal standards to allow them to do things they should not do. I think providers MUST go above and beyond what is required by licensing to provide SAFE, HEALTHY, NURTURING care and environments.
sharlan 01:27 PM 09-28-2011
Originally Posted by Crystal:
Re. California Licensing Regs....I want to say that just because something is not listed in the regs doesn't mean that we should allow a lapse in judgement that could potentially cause harm to a child. Some very common sense things are not listed in the regs.....California has VERY minimal licensing standards, and due to that there are a significant number of injuries and deaths each year in licensed facilities. I have always thought their standards were to simple and that basically anyone can become a licensed provider.....there are more exceptions for people with criminal backgrounds than one would ever imagine.....pages and pages in the regs on criminal activity that allows for exceptions, yet no spelling out of the most basic health and safety related care of children.
I think it is highly neccessary for providers to educate themselves and not rely on the fact that they recieved a license based on minimal standards to allow them to do things they should not do. I think providers MUST go above and beyond what is required by licensing to provide SAFE, HEALTHY, NURTURING care and environments.
That blew me away the first time I read the regs. As you say pages and pages on exemptions, yet I can't find any info on sleeping regs - do kids need sleeping cots or can they just sleep on the sofa as I've always let them - at what age can I let them play alone in the backyard while I do dishes - at what age can I allow them to ride bikes alone on the sidewalk in the front yard.Re. California Licensing Regs....I want to say that just because something is not listed in the regs doesn't mean that we should allow a lapse in judgement that could potentially cause harm to a child. Some very common sense things are not listed in the regs.....California has VERY minimal licensing standards, and due to that there are a significant number of injuries and deaths each year in licensed facilities. I have always thought their standards were to simple and that basically anyone can become a licensed provider.....there are more exceptions for people with criminal backgrounds than one would ever imagine.....pages and pages in the regs on criminal activity that allows for exceptions, yet no spelling out of the most basic health and safety related care of children.
I think it is highly neccessary for providers to educate themselves and not rely on the fact that they recieved a license based on minimal standards to allow them to do things they should not do. I think providers MUST go above and beyond what is required by licensing to provide SAFE, HEALTHY, NURTURING care and environments.
Crystal 01:31 PM 09-28-2011
Originally Posted by sharlan:
That blew me away the first time I read the regs. As you say pages and pages on exemptions, yet I can't find any info on sleeping regs - do kids need sleeping cots or can they just sleep on the sofa as I've always let them - at what age can I let them play alone in the backyard while I do dishes - at what age can I allow them to ride bikes alone on the sidewalk in the front yard.
Cazy, huh? It is baffling how little they put in print but expect us to know.That blew me away the first time I read the regs. As you say pages and pages on exemptions, yet I can't find any info on sleeping regs - do kids need sleeping cots or can they just sleep on the sofa as I've always let them - at what age can I let them play alone in the backyard while I do dishes - at what age can I allow them to ride bikes alone on the sidewalk in the front yard.
Jenniferdawn 01:35 PM 09-28-2011
Yep. Which is why I put this question out there in the first place. Very difficult to know all the specifics, especially when different people have different experiences.
Crystal 01:45 PM 09-28-2011
I say if it isn't in the regs, go with you instinct. You know what is and isn't safe or acceptable. Treat the children, and the way you run your program, the same as you would want for your own children if they were in daycare and you'll be fine.
KBCsMommy 04:13 PM 09-28-2011
Jenniferdawn, on the licensing website their is a page about self assesments. This is what I used as a checklist when I got ready for my initial inspection. These are the major things they are looking for, if these are ok then your house should be ok.
If the licensing people see anything they dont like they will ask you to fix it and you will still get your license as long as you agree to fix whatever the issue is.
And when they come for your inspection I think your gonna have some great questions for them!!
If the licensing people see anything they dont like they will ask you to fix it and you will still get your license as long as you agree to fix whatever the issue is.
And when they come for your inspection I think your gonna have some great questions for them!!