Daycare.com Forum
Daycare and Taxes>Hiring Employee with No SSN?
midaycare 07:54 PM 06-01-2014
I have a strange question and I'm not exactly sure where to ask it. I am looking to hire an assistant and I found the perfect person, BUT she does not yet have a SSN. She moved here with her husband and young daughter not too long ago and she said she does not think she can work until her husband's company processes paperwork to get her a SSN. Is this true? Has anyone every dealt with anything like this?
Her husband's company brought them over here, and they most likely be here forever. I'm just wondering if I can hire her or not. My gut says no, but then again, legislation is always changing.
TIA
Her husband's company brought them over here, and they most likely be here forever. I'm just wondering if I can hire her or not. My gut says no, but then again, legislation is always changing.
TIA
sahm1225 08:39 PM 06-01-2014
If she was brought over w her husband through work, there might be a clause in his contract that she can't work. My friend was relocated to hong king with her husband and their contract said that she was not allowed to work.
Can she apply for a temporary work Ssn? I know there are some that start with a number 9.
Can she apply for a temporary work Ssn? I know there are some that start with a number 9.
playground1 09:55 PM 06-01-2014
Doesn't she need a work visa before she has a SSN?
midaycare 03:10 AM 06-02-2014
Originally Posted by queen_of_the_playground:
Doesn't she need a work visa before she has a SSN?
I'm not sure ... I've really never dealt with this before. I've never had to think about this. Perhaps I will call the ssc office and ask?Doesn't she need a work visa before she has a SSN?
midaycare 03:12 AM 06-02-2014
Originally Posted by sahm1225:
If she was brought over w her husband through work, there might be a clause in his contract that she can't work. My friend was relocated to hong king with her husband and their contract said that she was not allowed to work.
Can she apply for a temporary work Ssn? I know there are some that start with a number 9.
Yes, this may be true. Our family was relocated from the states to Canada for some time and my mom was not allowed to work. But I think that was more Canada's policy.If she was brought over w her husband through work, there might be a clause in his contract that she can't work. My friend was relocated to hong king with her husband and their contract said that she was not allowed to work.
Can she apply for a temporary work Ssn? I know there are some that start with a number 9.
SillyGrl 11:08 PM 06-02-2014
Legally, you don't actually have to have a social security number to be eligible to work, you have to have the correct documents for the I-9 form. A social security card is only one of the documents listed as acceptable.
Here's some info: http://www.twc.state.tx.us/news/efte...hout_ssns.html
Here's some info: http://www.twc.state.tx.us/news/efte...hout_ssns.html
Originally Posted by :
NOTE: An employee is not required to include his or her social security number in Section 1 of the Form I-9, nor can the employee be required to do so by the employer. This information block is optional. However, there is one exception: when the employee is hired by an employer participating in the voluntary automated employment eligibility confirmation pilot program. Therefore, an employer cannot require an employee to include his or her social security number unless the employer is participating in the voluntary automated employment eligibility confirmation pilot program.
The failure of an employee to include a social security number in section 1 of the Form I-9 does not subject an employer to civil money penalties. Such an omission is neither a substantive, technical, or procedural failure to comply with the Form I-9 requirements.
Source: USCIS, Employer Information Bulletin 102, October 7, 2005
http://www.uscis.gov/files/article/EIB102.pdf (PDF)
NOTE: An employee is not required to include his or her social security number in Section 1 of the Form I-9, nor can the employee be required to do so by the employer. This information block is optional. However, there is one exception: when the employee is hired by an employer participating in the voluntary automated employment eligibility confirmation pilot program. Therefore, an employer cannot require an employee to include his or her social security number unless the employer is participating in the voluntary automated employment eligibility confirmation pilot program.
The failure of an employee to include a social security number in section 1 of the Form I-9 does not subject an employer to civil money penalties. Such an omission is neither a substantive, technical, or procedural failure to comply with the Form I-9 requirements.
Source: USCIS, Employer Information Bulletin 102, October 7, 2005
http://www.uscis.gov/files/article/EIB102.pdf (PDF)
midaycare 05:39 AM 06-03-2014
Originally Posted by SillyGrl:
Legally, you don't actually have to have a social security number to be eligible to work, you have to have the correct documents for the I-9 form. A social security card is only one of the documents listed as acceptable.
Here's some info: http://www.twc.state.tx.us/news/efte...hout_ssns.html
Interesting, thanks!Legally, you don't actually have to have a social security number to be eligible to work, you have to have the correct documents for the I-9 form. A social security card is only one of the documents listed as acceptable.
Here's some info: http://www.twc.state.tx.us/news/efte...hout_ssns.html
craftymissbeth 05:55 AM 06-03-2014
Originally Posted by SillyGrl:
Legally, you don't actually have to have a social security number to be eligible to work, you have to have the correct documents for the I-9 form. A social security card is only one of the documents listed as acceptable.
Here's some info: http://www.twc.state.tx.us/news/efte...hout_ssns.html
That's just what's acceptable as identification for the I9. So as far as ID goes, no one HAS to show their SS card as long as they have something else on the list.Legally, you don't actually have to have a social security number to be eligible to work, you have to have the correct documents for the I-9 form. A social security card is only one of the documents listed as acceptable.
Here's some info: http://www.twc.state.tx.us/news/efte...hout_ssns.html
My worry would be the total lack of a SSN and the fact that it's questionable whether she can legally work in the U.S. I don't believe they issue SSN's to all people here on work visas, so it is correct that she wouldn't necessarily need a SSN... but again, I would want to be 100% that she's hireable.
Theres a number of people I can think of that you could call, but I'm not sure which is the right place (immigration, IRS, a tax attorney, etc)
craftymissbeth 06:00 AM 06-03-2014
TO ADD: I reread through my post and I sound like I'm accusing her of something 
My whole point was supposed to be that you simply need to get verification of some kind (I would think SHE would be able to provide that) before hiring her. Do NOT hire her without that verification, though.
My whole point was supposed to be that you simply need to get verification of some kind (I would think SHE would be able to provide that) before hiring her. Do NOT hire her without that verification, though.
midaycare 08:06 AM 06-03-2014
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
TO ADD: I reread through my post and I sound like I'm accusing her of something
My whole point was supposed to be that you simply need to get verification of some kind (I would think SHE would be able to provide that) before hiring her. Do NOT hire her without that verification, though.
Yes, definitely. I don't need someone until September so I have some time, but I don't want any govt agencies knocking on my door, either.TO ADD: I reread through my post and I sound like I'm accusing her of something
My whole point was supposed to be that you simply need to get verification of some kind (I would think SHE would be able to provide that) before hiring her. Do NOT hire her without that verification, though.
SillyGrl 09:32 AM 06-03-2014
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
That's just what's acceptable as identification for the I9. So as far as ID goes, no one HAS to show their SS card as long as they have something else on the list.
My worry would be the total lack of a SSN and the fact that it's questionable whether she can legally work in the U.S. I don't believe they issue SSN's to all people here on work visas, so it is correct that she wouldn't necessarily need a SSN... but again, I would want to be 100% that she's hireable.
Theres a number of people I can think of that you could call, but I'm not sure which is the right place (immigration, IRS, a tax attorney, etc)
The I-9 form is the form used to verify that you are legally allowed to work in the US. Most people show their state issued ID (to identify themselves) and then show their SS cards because if you have a SS card with nothing on it, then you are eligible to work. If you don't have a SS card, then the other forms in the list are forms that give you the legal right to work in the US. That's just what's acceptable as identification for the I9. So as far as ID goes, no one HAS to show their SS card as long as they have something else on the list.
My worry would be the total lack of a SSN and the fact that it's questionable whether she can legally work in the U.S. I don't believe they issue SSN's to all people here on work visas, so it is correct that she wouldn't necessarily need a SSN... but again, I would want to be 100% that she's hireable.
Theres a number of people I can think of that you could call, but I'm not sure which is the right place (immigration, IRS, a tax attorney, etc)
There is no law that requires a person to sign up for a social security card, and it's not an automatic thing that happens when citizens are born (just, most people born in the hospital don't really realize that they sign a form asking the birth registrar to also apply for a ss card for them). I have actually known people who refuse to have one issued for religious reasons!
I worked in HR for Target for, like, two seconds so I'm not a really big expert or anything, but we did have a few people who had to provide other documentation to prove their eligibility.
craftymissbeth 09:53 AM 06-03-2014
Originally Posted by SillyGrl:
The I-9 form is the form used to verify that you are legally allowed to work in the US. Most people show their state issued ID (to identify themselves) and then show their SS cards because if you have a SS card with nothing on it, then you are eligible to work. If you don't have a SS card, then the other forms in the list are forms that give you the legal right to work in the US.
There is no law that requires a person to sign up for a social security card, and it's not an automatic thing that happens when citizens are born (just, most people born in the hospital don't really realize that they sign a form asking the birth registrar to also apply for a ss card for them). I have actually known people who refuse to have one issued for religious reasons!
I worked in HR for Target for, like, two seconds so I'm not a really big expert or anything, but we did have a few people who had to provide other documentation to prove their eligibility.
I'm agreeing with you that they don't need a SS card or a SSN. I worked as the HR manager for a fast food restaurant for a couple of years and it's been awhile so I took a look at the other documents that can be presented for the I9. If she can present the documents it asks for, she'll be good. If she can't get any of those documents then you know she's likely not eligible for work in the US.The I-9 form is the form used to verify that you are legally allowed to work in the US. Most people show their state issued ID (to identify themselves) and then show their SS cards because if you have a SS card with nothing on it, then you are eligible to work. If you don't have a SS card, then the other forms in the list are forms that give you the legal right to work in the US.
There is no law that requires a person to sign up for a social security card, and it's not an automatic thing that happens when citizens are born (just, most people born in the hospital don't really realize that they sign a form asking the birth registrar to also apply for a ss card for them). I have actually known people who refuse to have one issued for religious reasons!
I worked in HR for Target for, like, two seconds so I'm not a really big expert or anything, but we did have a few people who had to provide other documentation to prove their eligibility.
http://www.visahq.com/us_passport_requirements.php
SillyGrl 09:34 AM 06-04-2014
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
I'm agreeing with you that they don't need a SS card or a SSN. I worked as the HR manager for a fast food restaurant for a couple of years and it's been awhile so I took a look at the other documents that can be presented for the I9. If she can present the documents it asks for, she'll be good. If she can't get any of those documents then you know she's likely not eligible for work in the US.
http://www.visahq.com/us_passport_requirements.php
Haha, sorry, I was having an off day yesterday. I was actually agreeing with you and thought I was clarifying, lol. It's a sticky situation and when someone doesn't do a lot of hiring, it's hard to know what the laws are.I'm agreeing with you that they don't need a SS card or a SSN. I worked as the HR manager for a fast food restaurant for a couple of years and it's been awhile so I took a look at the other documents that can be presented for the I9. If she can present the documents it asks for, she'll be good. If she can't get any of those documents then you know she's likely not eligible for work in the US.
http://www.visahq.com/us_passport_requirements.php
craftymissbeth 03:34 PM 06-04-2014
Originally Posted by SillyGrl:
Haha, sorry, I was having an off day yesterday. I was actually agreeing with you and thought I was clarifying, lol. It's a sticky situation and when someone doesn't do a lot of hiring, it's hard to know what the laws are.
Haha, sorry, I was having an off day yesterday. I was actually agreeing with you and thought I was clarifying, lol. It's a sticky situation and when someone doesn't do a lot of hiring, it's hard to know what the laws are.
I thought we were saying basically the same thing, but had to read it a couple of times to make sure. This is one reason I'm so afraid to hire an assistant or sub (that and lack of funds). I'm pretty sure I'll mess it all up even though I have experience... but back then I wasn't TOTALLY on my own to make decisions.
