Okay, I have been a provider for only 2 years, but I have 15 years of center experience (including center director) and 2 years of nannying before that. I have NEVER, in my almost 20 years experience, seen ANYTHING like this!

My entire group is completely out of control, and I have not changed anything. Instead of eagerly participating in activities, they try their hardest to disrupt them...no matter what the activity! Instead of playing nicely as a group, they are all out at war with hitting, kicking, pulling hair, etc. Instead of walking and following our handful of classroom rules, there is only running. Instead of 2.5 hour naptimes with EVERYONE sleeping, I have 2 hour play sessions that include me trying to keep up to everyone jumping on their cots, squealing, pretending to burp/fart, outbursts of laughter and cot escapes! I have HAD IT!

Yes, my classroom is set up to discourage running...now we just run INTO the shelves. Yes, I make them sit when they run. Previously, I had the "model behavior" approach to discipline. (i.e. "Since you aren't playing nicely with blocks, why don't you go sit next to Johnny so he can show you how to play with them." "Since you are running to wash hands, why don't you walk back and walk with Susie because she is walking so nicely.") If that didn't work, I had them shadow me and be my helper. Worked like a charm...every time. It doesn't anymore. Now they just laugh at me and the "model" becomes part of the "plot against the rules." Since we are hitting and hurting each other non-stop, I implemented an immediate "time out" for hurting your friends...every time. They don't care. Most are just on time out 10 or more times per day. Then I have them explain what they did to earn the time out, and they can always tell me...never stops them from repeating moments later. I've seperated all of them from each other's view at naptime, but I cannot separate them from each other's hearing. I don't have the option to put them in different rooms, but it was never a problem until recently.

I have a low ratio and an assistant, although I won't be surprised if my assistant quits soon due to all of this. I have not had problems with these kids in the past and have had no changes to the group. I usually have the approach that busy kids don't have time to get into trouble, but the more we try to do our activities, the more they resist. If I back off and give them more freedom, despite everything I try, they only want to run around the shelves, spin in circles, spit on each other, hurt each other, and LAUGH HYSTERICALLY at how funny they are!!! We have tried to plant a garden, take long hikes (they are in a stroller or holding hands with a partner and STILL manage to hurt each other the entire time.) The mere act of taking them outside installs utter chaos no matter how many "transition" warnings/activities/planning I attempt. It is so frustrating! Instead of playing as a group, I only let them play in small groups and/or in "center" activities. (My space is designed like a classroom with centers, etc.) They still can't handle it. We spend several times a day sitting alone and looking at books to calm down, but then the burping/farting, spitting, or something interrupts it and chaos resumes. Heaven forbid a parent walks in the room (I make them wait outside the gate now) and THEY GO NUTS because my full attention is not on them and they think they can get away with it...keep in mind, my assistant is still "all hands on deck."

It came to a head this afternoon. After being on their cots for an hour and a half, NO ONE was asleep. One two year old was running around/screeching on her cot, the 4 year old was picking up carpet specks to which a 3 year old was yelling at her. A 5 year old was burping to make the others laugh. I couldn't keep up. I finally just got them up. I am NOT HAPPY!!! They are each in a seperate area with their own bucket of toys and are instructed that they will stay there (with the exception of snack and bathroom breaks) until their parents arrive. At that point, I intend to speak with all of them and the children to discuss what happened today and try to brainstorm ideas together. I don't know what else to do. Anyone have ideas?

I can't do this anymore. I have contemplated letting someone go, but I cannot think of anyone person/family that is causing the problem. Simply put, I can no longer keep them safe. I am capable of keeping them safe, but they are OUT OF CONTROL and I don't know why. I would swear up and down that the parents are witholding sleep from them and giving them candy and Mountain Dew/espresso before dropping them off to me every day. Everything I know about kids and child development is failing me. Who can help me?

Again, nothing has changed except that suddenly all of the kids are here much longer days (the family that was 10-5 is now 7:30-5:30, the family that was 9-5 is now 8-5:30, the family that was 8:30-4:30 is now 7:45-5:45 even though I close at 5:30, and the family that was 8-5 is now waiting in my driveway at 7:20 and here until I close every day). The longer days did coincide with the problems, but I can't pinpoint why except that the kids are away from their parents more..doesn't change my rules or my routine. These parents are all professional and don't mind paying late fees if it is more convenient for them, never keep their kids home if they are home, and if the kids wake up a little early they just bring them to my house earlier. They are a bit of the "entitled" type, they pay me so they might as well leave them here every second they can since they are paying for it. On the flipside, they are all intelligent, hardworking, and do provide for their children. I don't know what to think. HELP! (before I have a nervous breakdown) I want my job and my nice kids/nice routine back...NOW! This has been going on for the past 4-6 weeks or so. We have had 4 "good" days during that time.

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I am wondering how long have these kids been with you? I just did a quick read through of what you described, so you may have mentioned it and I missed it.

By no means do I have the amount of experience that you do, however, I am wondering if they have been with you for a period of time if perhaps they are bored? Maybe you need a completely different routine to change things up and give a fresh approach to the day?

I could be completely wrong though.

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Yikes!

That sounds like my personal hell...I had a group like that before. Except there were 10 of them and one me....*shudders* bad memories.


Honestly, it probably has something to do with them suddenly being there 1-2 hours longer. I had a drop-in that suddenly went to full time, 6:30 to 5:30. Her behavior went to hell.

This might not be the answer, but this is what I'd do. Keep in mind these are merely suggestions

Since you have an assistant, I'd divide the kids in half. You take half and she take the other. Have them play separately like you described for the first week or so. Let one group go outside while the other plays inside and then switch. Anyone hurting friends is immediately sent inside, and send one of the others out. Spread them out as much as humanly possible at nap, maybe put them down in waves - youngest first. I'd even split them up at lunch if that's feasible.

Make them earn playing/eating with friends back. Let two at a time play with each other for 15-20 minutes, and increase as they are successful. Any running, hurting other people, bathroom noises, etc...and they go back to playing alone.

I'd postpone all "activities" for the moment. That was especially hard for me, because I'm more of a "preschool" person than a "daycare" person, but it was like trying to set the table in a hurricane.

Have the parents phone/text when they are 5 minutes away so you can get the child ready and hand off.

I'd explain this to parents beforehand and the reason why, so when Little Johnny goes home and says he had to play by himself all day, they'll already know.

Just my two cents. Hope it gets better for you fast.

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As someone else suggested...divide and conquer! We have 16 most days. A group that size can have mob mentalilty if we aren't careful. Four groups of 4 is MUCH easier.

Group care can be wild! All it takes is one child to push limits and then they get brave and they all want to try it.

One time, I had enough and cleaned out the playroom. Not one toy. I told them if they couldn't play nicely, they couldn't play at all.

We spent two days with them separated from each other doing nothing but read, do puzzles, sit quietly, nap and color quietly. They were bored out of their skulls. Their parents were all on board, which was wonderful. The politically correct crowd will probably flame me for being "cruel". I don't care....none of them are scarred for life...AND IT WORKED.

They learned that the toys are not a right. They belong to me and they can play with them if I say so and if they treat them correctly and behave.

Now, all I have to do is ask if I need to take the toys away again and they settle down.

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YES! I agree with Meeko, sounds like some good old school consequences are in order here!

Remember having to put your head down on your desk because one kid was being a jerk in class and we were ALL punished for it?! I would absolutely go back to that.

For example during nap time, I would tell them that NO ONE gets up unitl everyone has had a minimum of 30 minutes with their eyes closed. Make them be responsible for each other. Apparently one of them has decided that you are no longer the authority and no no one has to listen to you....

I think you were right about letting one go but since it is hard to pinpoint exactly who it is that set everyone else off, I would go the group discipline/reward route. Treat them as a group and perhaps, one may start influencing another and pretty soon they will ALL be back in line!

Good luck! I have no idea what I would do if my whole group started acting like that.....but I am sure I would be wearing my "mean mommy" face for a while until that authority status was re-established!

(((hugs))) in the mean time!

Keep us posted on what you are trying and what is and isn't working as I am sure someone in the future will be needing some advice about this same topic!

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I suspect the additional time with you is the culprit. But maybe not for the reasons you think. Sure, kids will miss being with their parents and may act up because of it, but in my experience when that are at daycare for such long hours they tend to be kept up later at night so that parents can spend time with them. This lack of sleep has snowballed into all this bad behavior, and with the no sleep nap times the problem has likely compounded. My little ones are always more hellish when they are tired. And a half hour reduction in sleep in a day can be enough to throw them off.

I have found that parents aren't usually very honest about how much sleep their kids are getting when they aren't getting enough, but you could present the information to them just the same.

I do think the group mentality is a good idea. We have lost outside time in the morning when the kids are whiney, rude and aggressive while getting ready with the "opportunity to try again this afternoon." When the have the promise of something fun, and a few people in the group spoil it for everyone then you may see some turn around.

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separate by the ages the best you can. Assistant takes on one group that she is comfortable with and you have the other. When I worked at a Center we had to do this. At first it was hard- it is change. It then became easier but isolated a bit from the caretakers.

Nap time put on nap music- quiet boring slumber music. This will help them to relax. Make nap time a non negotiable- For older kids, I sometimes do a movie or quiet on the cot activities, such as books. It is down time for everyone

I would not make tons of changes at once, but start slow and try doing things a new way. Kids that are acting up- give them something different to do. Remember what works one day does not always work the next- target the worst offenders and work with them- or change it up and work with the kids that showing the most positive behaviors. When you catch good behavior- celebrate on that. It is easy to get caught up in the negative. Remember this is just the group of kids that you have at the moment-

Outside time is key to these types of kids. Wear them out in the morning with fresh air, movement, running and being free to do more then you can inside. Not all kids like puzzles, pre-school management. Teach team building skills. I love arts- but I have to remind myself that not all kids do and some are just too little to grasp. Do the buddy system- two friends at the rice table, etc.

Another good thing that helps me is to go to a training or seminar. You often come out of them refreshed.

You have an assistant so right there is a huge positive- tag team- One does the clean up from lunch and the other settles down the kids, or you both do the kids and then clean up. Make the most out of your assistant, don't take it all on.
Best-

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I work with school agers and I had a 5 year old whose behavior spiraled out of control due to him being with me 30 minutes longer than usual every day. 30 minutes! At first I couldn't pinpoint the problem or change but that was the only change in his day I could find. He was crying, throwing tantrums, knocking things over, etc. It may not seem like a big deal to us, but any time change can be significant. Just something that might ease your mind-it's not YOU or anything wrong with your set-up!

I agree with all the comments about divide and conquer. If your assistant can somehow take half off your hands-a different part of the room maybe? and you take the other half outside and switch, it can break up the day and make outbursts easier to handle. Continue with the same solid consequences for bad behavior. Even if it seems repetitive, it needs to be consistent. (Whatever it is that you do.)

We're rooting for you! I've noticed that some groups of kids just have bad group "chemistry." I'm sorry you have to take this all on but just do what you can to manage the situation.

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I know this is an old thread but I had to respond. I was curious how long your assistant had been with you. I have an extended hours center and employ several college students and we go through a similar chaos when ever new staff comes in. I think the kiddos can smell my stress when bring in new staff. I try to overlap as much as possible but the mere presence of a new person can disrupt the entire group. I have a suggestion for the nap issue as well, white noise at nap time has saved me. Do some research but it really has made a difference for us.

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